Chuck versus Johnnie and Sarah Walker

Ladies and gentlemen, a post by guest blogger, Liz James.

What If Hannah Works for Sarah?

I’ve started thinking about Episode 8, Chuck Versus the Fake Name, and what strands the always-impeccable writer, Ali Adler, has to deal with from her previous work.

We know about Sarah’s name reveal, which harkens back to her Season 1 episode, Chuck Versus the Wookie. Chuck’s assertion from her Season 2 episode, Chuck Versus the Cougars–that he didn’t need to know who Sarah was because he knew who she is–may also come into play. We know Fake Name will also reveal more about Sarah’s past.

But there are three things in Three Words that Adler established that must be addressed: Chuck told Sarah he (present tense) loves her; Chuck learned from Carina that Sarah (present tense) loves him; and Chuck and Sarah agree to work on fixing the “mess” they had made.

No further mention of the love confessions have surfaced since Three Words. Yet suddenly, in the chaotic final moments of Mask, Chuck and Sarah seem to abandon their mutually known love and apparently decided not even to try to fix their “mess.”

Implausible, says I. For a zillion reasons we’ve already discussed and some we haven’t. So the most logical course for Episode 8 is that Adler ends the Chuck-Sarah-Shaw-Hannah love trapezoid and reestablishes the Chuck-and-Sarah-love-each-other state of affairs that existed, however obliquely, at the end of Three Words.

How can Adler end the trapezoid and address her unfinished Three Words strands? How about this: What if Hannah works for Sarah?

Think about it. Hannah appears on the plane in First Class just as Sarah is frantic about Chuck’s first solo mission. Sarah was told by Shaw that Chuck’s first mission would be in Paris and Hannah represented herself as a person living in Paris. Hannah also claimed she had lost her job and was available to show Chuck the sights. Then she follows Chuck to Burbank. Ever since First Class, Hannah has been around Chuck whenever Sarah could not be. And Hannah is a brunette and a computer nerd.

In other words, a perfect person for Chuck to like and accept. So what if Hannah is an agent who the ever-canny Sarah has recruited to protect Chuck?

Poppycock, you say. You may very well be right. But consider this odd statement earlier this week from Josh Schwartz to the TV critic Alan Sepinwall: “I know there’s some question, ‘Why can [Sarah] date Shaw and not Chuck?’ She’s still there to protect Chuck. The bodyguard component of that professional relationship remains intact.”

Really? Sarah is still protecting Chuck? Weren’t we told Sarah was training Chuck? Interesting that the spoiler-adverse Schwartz would let that tidbit drop. Of course, maybe he was so busy backpedaling on the developments in Mask that he didn’t even realize he was dropping a spoiler.

If Schwartz wasn’t just temporizing, then it is at least within the realm of possibility that Sarah brings in Hannah to protect the man she loves from whatever bizarre machinations she believes Shaw is cooking up.

How does this all relate to Episode 8 and the love trapezoid? A conjecture: Sarah encouraged Chuck to pursue a relationship with Hannah at the end of Mask because she knows she’ll be busy playing Shaw. Hannah is Sarah’s way to keep Chuck safe–physically and emotionally–while Sarah is otherwise engaged.

In Fake Name, Chuck figures out that Hannah isn’t “real” and he learns that Sarah is behind it. As usual, he probably doesn’t get the big picture, only enough to make it seem that Sarah is cynically trying to get him out of the way so she can be with Shaw. In a rage, he appears at Shaw’s apartment–not to confront Shaw, but to confront Sarah. Chuck says something about Sarah that allows Shaw to taunt him with the “You had your chance!” line. Chuck decks him and storms out.

After Chuck leaves, Shaw naturally wants to continue his romantic activities with Sarah, but she’s no longer interested. In fact, she tells Shaw what she was doing, both with him and with Hannah and Chuck. Rather than be angry with Sarah, Shaw expresses admiration for Sarah’s tactics–and that begins the professional friendship that apparently lasts until Shaw’s departure in episode 13.

It also, thankfully, ends the love trapezoid.

But, wait, there’s more. We know that Episode 8’s spy drama involves Chuck impersonating a well-known assassin. (Hence the superficial meaning of “Fake Name” in the title.) He’ll clearly have to do some unsavory things, which sends him back to the Johnnie Walker as he realizes that nothing is real in the spy world: not his work; not Sarah Walker, the woman he loves; not Hannah, a woman he might have been interested in.

Yet we know that Adler’s scripts–okay, Ernie, her solo scripts–always leave Chuck and Sarah in a better place.

So how does Adler make it better? How about this: Sarah sees Chuck on the monitor drinking again, but this time she acts. She goes to him and maybe even tries to lecture him about the choice he’s made to be a spy and her admonition to him in Pink Slip about nothing in the spy world being real. That only makes Chuck angrier and she realizes that she has to do something dramatic to make it right.

She reminds him of his request in Wookie: Tell me something real about you. Sarah then offers up her real name as a sign that some things are real in the spy world–and that she still wants a real life with him.

Do I think this is what happens in Episode 8? No. Of course not. I mean, what are the odds?

But I’m not guilty of Ernie’s current favorite sin: Trying to write my own story. Instead, I’m trying to piece together scenarios based on what we know about how Adler works; what we know about how this season’s story arc has worked; and the few spoilers we’ve had. However, I do admit: I get a kick out of the thought that Hannah belongs to Sarah. That would be a fun twist.

Now, it’s your turn to speculate. After all, there are two weeks to fill…

-LizJames

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About amyabn

My name is Amy and I'm in the active Army as my profession. I love the show Chuck and want to see it succeed for many seasons to come. My twitter handle is amyabn.
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155 Responses to Chuck versus Johnnie and Sarah Walker

  1. olddarth says:

    With Chuck the simplest explanation is the best no matter how contrived it so. Sorry Chuck showrunners, but the proof is in the pudding.

    Why is Hannah at the BuyMore? Because she really, really likes Chuck. No more. No less.

    Why does Sarah try to hook up with Shaw? Because she believes it is best for Chuck. And for her.

    Why does the 3.08 synopsis tells us Sarah tries to keep things professional with Shaw? Because after the kiss seen in the promos, Sarah realizes she is hopelessly in love with Chuck. No more. No less.

    Why does Hannah leave in 3.08? Because Chuck realizes she is hopelessly in love with Chuck. No more. No less.

    • Lucian says:

      I hope you are right, and it would be great if Chuck and Sarah actually acknowledge to each other directly, not via computer or Carina or something else how they feel. That would be progress.

      • Lucian says:

        addendum – I could finally feel good about season 3 if Sarah could say something to Chuck like “YOU are my type, you idiot”. I don’t think anything so direct is going to happen until at least 13.

      • Readyset says:

        Lucian: Actually, Sarah has said that a few times to Chuck is the only way they allow the Sarah character to say it: In First Date, when she says, “You can have anything.” In Ring, when she says, “You ARE that guy.”

        I have actually wondered if they actually let Sarah say, at any point, “I Love You,” directly and unambiguously to Chuck. I mean, weirdly, that would be a BIGGER payoff then them just being together.

      • atcdave says:

        Agree with both; at this point, some sort of affirmation is the best we can hope for between them; their actual circumstance is unlikely to change much for a while. I bring this up mainly because I’m still bothered by JS insistance not much will happen in 3.08. I can accept that only if he means physically; we’re unlikely to see them suddenly run off together again, or even jump into bed together. A mutual statement of their feelings would be huge, even if it changes nothing for now.

      • ReadySet says:

        atcdave–wow, you are a dreamer. I would settle for “I Love You” in e13 when they are coupled. I am certainly not expecting it in e8. As for Schwartz, well, he won’t actively give anything away. But logic dictates the love shape ends in Fake Name because Hannah is gone and they need to transfer Sarah-Shaw to “professional friends” from the phony love angle. So I do believe e8 will take care of that for us and reset Chuck and Sarah as a real or to-be-realized couple.

  2. olddarth says:

    er he realizes. Sorry about that. 😀

    • Jason says:

      darth / liz / anyone, how many happy endings do you see left in the show’s 12 remaining episodes, so far, for me, the number is 2 oks (2&4), 3 sad, and 2 disturbing (6&7) – I am not that hard to please, generally, my tv pick list are shows just like this, burn notice, leverage, castle, etc none hooked me the way seasons 1/2 did, none have left me feeling numb like season 3 has, am I that far off base?

  3. kg says:

    Wow Liz. That’s bringing some meat.

    On another matter. Just wanted to make sure you saw the quote I dug up from Imported Salami following Chuck’s first breakup with Sarah and how I believe it wonderfully supports your “Sarah treats the cover relationship as something real for her.”

    Prior to leaving the Buy More after a failed attempt to change Chuck’s mind Sarah says, “I just wanted you to know that I never once felt like our time together was work.”

    At the time, I believed she was sincere. I still do.

    • lizjames says:

      KG-Yep, remember that attempt to keep Chuck in the fake relationship, too. As we were talking at the other thread, Sarah’s entire Season 1/2 relationship with Chuck was about holding on the the “cover” because to her, it was as real as anything she’s ever had…

  4. Faith says:

    Nothing is ever that simple. Although sorry Liz your scenario is too, well I want to say too easy but it’s not. It’s actually a lot of long stretches put together but weirdly works…so doubtful that’s the case either. 🙂

    To quote something from another NBC show, Pam from the Office: “I don’t know what the future holds but I’m optimistic…”

  5. Jason says:

    liz – I would think hannah as a sarah plant would undermine chuck’s seemingly dwindling trust in sarah – assuming chuck is not acting that way, chuck really is drifting apart from sarah in this arc, until I reviewed the arc’s side by side, I did not realize it, maybe 3.7’s last ten minutes of chuck’s behaviour should not have suprised me so much? As long as I am smiling after 3.8 and for the rest of the season, I have hit a point, I much don’t care how they achieve it, unfortunately?

  6. Gord says:

    A lot of imagination and conjecture. I personally think we are all struggling to find a logical reason for the fiasco at the end of 3.07. Your explanation does sound intriguing, but highly doubtful.

    To cheer you all up though(I hope), I found this at TV.com – top 10 TV Kisses – includes the video clip of Chuck and Sarah’s kiss in Hard Salami. With this caption:

    “Chuck and Sarah on Chuck
    Watching this one makes this week’s episode even more depressing.”

    http://www.tv.com/the-top-10-tv-kisses/story/21125.html?tag=hotspot;gumball;1

    Doesn’t look like this link worked, but if it doesn’t copy and paste it into your address line.

  7. Big Kev says:

    Liz,
    Wow….that’s one that hadn’t occurred to me in any way, shape or form. Clearly, I have no imagination!
    I love the idea – and I’m guessing it’s something equally as complex as you’ve described.
    Frankly, I don’t have any possible scenarios thought through yet – but one thing I am guessing is that the fake name isn’t Sarah. Chuck flashed on Jack Burton – so presumably somewhere in the intel, he would have Jack Burton’s real name. Nothing was made of that – so I’m guessing that Jack Burton is his real name, hence Burton is Sarah’s real name – unless Jack isn’t really her Dad….and I’m not sure how they could pull that off.
    My thinking has always been that Fake Name will be about Shaw – but the more I think about your theory, the more I ike it.
    I also go back to when Hannah meets Chuck on the plane and they’re guessing the jobs of the passengers. Chuck mentions the Yale Fencing Team, and Hannah says “spot on” – which is usually a phrase you use when you’re confirming something. I took that to mean that Hannah knows who is on the plane – alongside the Syrian Ambassador and the Nuclear Scientists.
    The real flaw I can see in your theory at this point is this. If Hannah is an Agent, she would have known Hugo Panzer. Indeed she specifically points him out to Chuck. If she knows he’s a Ring operative, and the point of the mission – why would she not be more concerned during Chuck’s long disappearances on the flight? Especially if she is there with specific orders to protect him? She’d at least be trying to find him, surely?
    On balance, I think it’s more plausible that Shaw put her on the plane, with orders to “sit tight”, then to come back to Burbank with an order to come between Chuck and Sarah.
    That’s my thinking at the moment. Give me another hour and it could change!

    • Ernie Davis says:

      Much as I love Liz and her theories (they do make me think) I think I’m a lot closer to your view regarding Hannah Kev. She was failsafe backup. Shaw was pretty quick to figure out the second ring agent and her preferred poison, and Hannah was quick to point out Hugo and Chuck’s mistake of drinking a drink he didn’t order. My guess was that she had an antidote and was Chuck’s last line of defense, but doesn’t know anything more than he is a promising spy in training. But I have to admit Liz and Amy are Sarah Walker experts, so if either thinks Sarah is playing Shaw I tend to allow that they may see more than I do.

      • lizjames says:

        ernie and big kev-
        I agree. It is much more logical that Hannah belongs to Shaw. I was honestly just noodling with what Ali Adler has to clean up. So if you forced me to bet something, I’d go with Hannah being Shaw’s agent.

        But as you one said, Ernie, I’m going to be insufferable for weeks if Hannah DID belong to Sarah! 🙂

      • Mike B says:

        Since we are all speculating. What if Hannah works for Beckman? Beckman planted her to keep her posted.

  8. kg says:

    Completely comfortable on my end….just sayin. Ha ha ha ha.

    Oh that’s great. You’re going to shoot me to prevent me from being blown up. Aces, Charles.

    A rare moment of courage.

    • lizjames says:

      Wowser, kg, thanks for this. I never fully understood the Chuck/Sarah scene emotionally until you replayed the dialogue just there. Of course, Chuck pointing out Sarah’s emotional craziness (I love Crazy Sarah when she lets her emotions control her!) and his act of choosing to be with her at that moment makes Chuck the “hero type” that she’s always wanted. The “real” guy who is also the “hero.” That is completely irresistable to Sarah.

      I NEVER until this moment understood that.

      Boy, what you learn two years after you first watched an episode.

      Thanks A HEAP, kg…

      • kg says:

        Thank you as well Liz

        I only recently stumbled upon this wonderful site, ecstatic to meet so many intelligent, diverse fans.

        I had basically argued your premise about how real the cover relationship appeared to both Chuck and Sarah, on the chucktv.net site moons ago. How as a supposed non couple they had shared more moments that any couple I knew real or imagined.

        You articulated the premise better than I and focused so well on the degree that it meant for Sarah. That’s why I recalled that special quote. You had it right, but I knew that quote proved it beyond a shadow of a doubt.

        Keep up the keen insight

        KG

  9. lizjames says:

    Hey, folks, I stand my ALL or my theories–or NONE of them. Truly, I am just speculating. The ont thing I DO know is that the answers are not simple. They’ve told us this is, among other things, 3-d chess. And when you add in the backward reveals and the cons that are going on. It is going to be a wild ride.

    But a couple of indisputable points: The name reveal WILL be about Sarah because they’ve confirmed that. So the question is not will they tell us Sarah’s “real” name, but HOW we are told.

    As for the flashing, yes, Chuck flashed on Jack Burton. But he’s already also flashed on Sarah Walker–right at the beginning of the show. It was about her assasinating some French diplomats or something.

    Otherwise, speculate away. That’s what I was doing!

    • Mike B says:

      Actually after reading the synopsis just released by NBC, the Chuck/Hannah relationship seems to be as it appears. Chuck’s SOP for a first date is to cook her dinner. He did the same thing for Sarah in 2.01.

      • Readyset says:

        Mike-
        Actually, read the synopsis again. It says “Chuck promises to cook dinner for Hannah, Ellie and Awesome.”

        That isn’t the First Date/SOP scenario, where Chuck was cooking just for Sarah.

        More likely: Ellie tells Chuck (in her giddy way) that he’s thrilled that he has moved on with Hannah. Chuck, cornered, has to PROMISE to cook them all dinner. Ellie blabbing is also how Chuck will learn that Morgan knows about his, er, activities with Hannah, thus setting up the Chuck-Morgan crisis for resolution in episode 9.

      • Mike B says:

        Readyset, I think for Chuck to allow Hannah to meet his family tells us that he thinks she is an innocent. He never would purposely expose them to her if he thought she was even remotely involved in the spy world.

      • atcdave says:

        I could see Chuck agreeing if he was pretty sure it would never actually happen.

      • ReadySet says:

        But why are you assuming that Chuck PROPOSED the dinner. I’m pretty sure that he gets cornered by Ellie (who tells him he saw her with Hannah) and he agrees, knowing that no dinner will ever happen.

      • Mike B says:

        Because he already feels guilty about lying all the time to Ellie. If it was Ellie’s idea for the dinner he could just tell her it was too soon in the relationship for the
        “meet the family” dinner. That would be much easier.

    • compromisedcover says:

      Supplemental info: Chuck flashed on “Elana Truffaut”, not “Sarah Walker” regarding the French diplomats mission. Been watching Season 1 lately, hehe.

    • lizjames says:

      Just remember here: There is ZERO chance of Hannah being a total innocent. That she is not what she seems was revealed weeks and weeks ago by some journalist.

      So one part of the game is obvious: Hannah works for someone: Shaw, Beckman, Sarah, a third party, Orion, Buy More corporate, etc. The only people I exempt is Casey (he would have deployed her when Chuck was in trouble in First Class) and the Ring. (Why wouldn’t they have used her on the plane after the other agents failed…unless, of course, she was deep for them long term.)

      BTW, the reason she is NOT an innocent from the storytelling perspective is that there is no lesson to be learned by Chuck if she is. Chuck has already “lost” an innocent by being in the spy world (Lou) and he already KNOWS how high the cost of being a spy is to the ones he cares about. So Hannah has to be about something else…

      • Lucian says:

        Liz – I think you might be missing an important point. When Chuck downloaded intersect 2.0, he erased his brain from all lessons learned in seasons 1 and 2. I’m thinking Hannah may be exactly Lou 2.0. and that episode 8 is going to be almost a carbon copy replay of Nemesis with Shaw playing the role of Bryce. In an effort to save production costs, they decided to just do a compilation cd / “best of seasons 1 and 2” story line.

      • compromisedcover says:

        Hmmm, just re-watched First Class and was quite intrigued that Chris Fedak alone wrote this episode. He’s the mythology guy, right? He gave us S1’s Nemesis and S2’s Predator among other mythos-laden episodes. I’m thinking either the Sarah/Shaw-in-Castle, or the Chuck-in-the-plane storyline must be related with the arc.

      • Waverly says:

        Lucian, I wonder if downloading Intersect 2.0 not only erased all lessons of the first two seasons from Chuck’s brain, but also from TPTB.

    • Anonymous says:

      I would think it would be difficult for the storytelling arc if Chuck were to have any real (or perhaps “deep” is a better word) feelings for Hannah. What would it say about Chuck and Sarah’s relationship (which is know is the, uh, destination) if they “settle” for each other in episode 13 because they are both in the spy world?

      It would do terrible damage to the arc if Chuck swings back to Sarah only after “losing” Hannah. Sarah would then become “the best of what’s left.” That is no way to for the hero of the tale to choose a mate.

      I’m not a shipper (in fact, I wish they’d get the Chuck/Sarah thing over already), but they just can’t have Chuck care too deeply about Hannah. The superhero-in-the-making Chuck HAS to actively choose Sarah. Hannah has to be revealed as trying to play Chuck and Chuck has to CONSCIOUSLY choose Sarah over Hannah.

      Even for a show that claims to be darker, it’s not plausible for the hero to “settle” for Sarah.

      • weaselone says:

        If Chuck is settling for anything, it’s Hannah. The brunettes have always been about settling for someone less than Sarah. They’ve always been the booby trapped consolation prize.

        Sarah says they’re only a cover and they have no future so Chuck gets Lou who turns out to be smuggling deli meats and Chuck’s spy life drives away.

        Chuck can’t pursue Sarah because it will get her killed. Jill walks back into Chuck’s life promising something normal. Jill’s actually a Fulcrum member who betrays Chuck in order to gain access to the Castle computer.

        Chuck manages to reinsert himself in the spy world, pleads his case to Sarah via copied verge of death confession and Sarah continues to remain aloof and distant. Chuck gives it one last shot by giving her a veto over his relationship with Hannah and she gives him her blessing and confirms she’s interested in Shaw. Chuck goes after Hannah. Hannah turns out to be…

        Coming next season Chuck proposes to Sarah,she declines and flees to the far corners of the world. Chuck eventually gives up the chase and decides to date his new brunette partner. The fans scream “How can he do this to Sarah? When the brunette hussy breaks his heart and Sarah finally comes back she’ll only be his second choice.!”

      • Mike B says:

        That’s why it would be better if Hannah were an innocent, it would make choosing Sarah all about Sarah not settling.

      • Faith says:

        They can still make it a proactive choosing. Because even with Jill, with all the pressure and problems that spy life has given him, I could totally have seen him run away with Jill (I think she would have run away and not turned him at that point) instead of arresting her and putting Sarah’s safety above it all.

  10. weaselone says:

    If Sarah is manipulating Chuck in that manner, it’s all the more reason for him to go out and find another brunette, or simply sever all possible ties with her.

  11. lizjames says:

    By the way, I probably should say here that even after Fake Name, there could be bad times for Chuck and Sarah.

    By episode 12 (American Hero), Chuck will firmly be established as, well, an American Hero. That will probably estrange him from Sarah, who, as we know, doesn’t want Chuck to be a spy. In fact, it might even look to Chuck (and perhaps to us) that Sarah is actually “with” Shaw.

    Then in episode 13 (The Other Guy), Chuck will do something that proves to Sarah that he is still the “same person” he was before he became a spy. It’ll be a callback to the post-Ring flashback in Pink Slip (callback to flashback to episode 1, oy!) where Sarah tells Chuck that “if you do this, you’re not going to be the same person.”

    I just can’t figure out how Chuck chooses Sarah after Sarah realizes Chuck is “still that guy.” And it has to be Chuck that chooses Sarah in the end…

    • JC says:

      If it plays out that way or something similar, I can’t see a happy ending by 3.13 maybe a hopeful one but I can’t see them as a couple. Another point is Sarah has to say “I love you” to Chuck directly no matter how this season plays out. That’s become my deal breaker on this season. And since Zach mentioned it on his twitter I really hope they rip off ESB completely.

      Its odd I probably have 50 ideas on how this will play out and they all fit to a degree.

    • Anonymous says:

      A lot of folks are speculating on a blackmail angle, too. Shaw is essentially blackmailing Sarah to stay away from Chuck using some dark deeds of her dad. (Hence the exposition in First Class that Shaw knew about Sarah having “a con man for a father).

      That blackmail riff could be how stuff about Sarah’s past comes out in episode 8 and maybe even entails the name reveal. But revealing Sarah’s name without it having resonance between Chuck and Sarah (a la the end of Wookie) would not be in character for Ali Adler. Although, of course, she did use the charm bracelet as a throwaway line/set up for Carina in Three Words.

      And if Shaw is blackmailing Sarah, it actually could be a way for Sarah to explain to Chuck why Sarah brought in Hannah. But, as you say, Liz, what are the odds?

      Going to be a very interesting episode. I hope they don’t damange Chuck and Sarah too much, though. These two have everything but the plague of locusts thrown in their path.

      • kg says:

        Well, preview videos are often deceiving. We see that Shaw tells Chuck, “You had your chance, and blew it.” Then we see Chuck pop Shaw.

        There could have been some editing. In the actual episode, the punch doesn’t necessarily come directly following Shaw’s snide remark. That is what “they” want us to see.

        Chuck could find about the blackmail, if one exists, and basically pound Shaw for Sarah. Nothing in his own background actually suggests he would ever get so angry and strike someone for himself.

        Remember, Chuck is all about family, friends and loved ones.

    • weaselone says:

      Liz, as I keep telling everyone who won’t listen. Chuck’s already chosen Sarah. The brunettes are just Chuck settling and trying to move on because he can’t have the person he really wants. Because the writers have been rather trite, I’ll follow their lead. It’s like a choice for breakfast. Your favorite breakfast is eggs, bacon, and home fries. One day you’re out of eggs, so you eat Cheerios. Another day you’re out of bacon, so you have corn flakes. A week later you have breakfast with someone that can’t stand the smell of cooked potatoes, so you opt for a bowel of fruit loops. This doesn’t mean that you truly prefer cereal to eggs, bacon, and home fries. That’s just what’s actually available.

      • Lucian says:

        Now just a minute – I am thinking Hannah is at least Frosted Flakes with sliced bananas and toast with jam (IMO). She is no bowl of Cheerios!

      • weaselone says:

        Well, Sarah probably qualifies for something more elaborate than eggs, bacon and home fries.

      • lizjames says:

        Weaselone-
        Could it be that no one is listening to you because you don’t seem to LIKE Sarah. 🙂 The rest of us adore her.

        But, seriously, of course Chuck has already chosen Sarah. Sarah has already chosen Chuck. (Gee, don’t we sound like Father Rick this morning!) The problem is that TPTB have changed the game, so Sarah will have to commit to Chuck AGAIN! And Chuck will have to choose (or perhaps “win”) Sarah AGAIN!

      • weaselone says:

        I do like Sarah, but since the beginning of the season I’ve gotten an “Awh, poor Sarah. Chuck’s such a jerk.” vibe from much of the fan base. I feel obligated to stand up for Chuck because it seems like nobody else does.

      • atcdave says:

        I think the choice is somewhat meaningless in that light. We all live in circumstances dictated by choice and opportunity. So if Chuck has chosen Sarah, but gives up the means to be with her; its an empty, or half-hearted choice. We need to see (OK, I need to see) choices from both of them that actually lead to them being together. As I’ve said, I know we won’t get all of that in 3.08; but we (sorry, “I” again) need some sort of hope in this episode. Just the verification that both are actually trying to be together, if it takes until 3.13 before they can actually admit that to each other, I suppose I can live with that. But I am still greedy, I’d prefer to see more, sooner.

      • joe says:

        Liz said Sarah will have to commit to Chuck AGAIN! And Chuck will have to choose (or perhaps “win”) Sarah AGAIN!

        That’s precisely what Chuck tells Ellie he’s had to do way back, early in S2.

      • atcdave says:

        I recently re-watched Seduction, and I’d have to say that line sent a chill down my spine (an angry chill, but still).

      • lou federico says:

        Sarah did take a lot of lumps from the fan base in the first couple of years. I guess it is Chuck’s turn.

      • weaselone says:

        What else does Chuck need to do? He’s confessed his love to Sarah, given her the opportunity to be something beyond friends, includes her in his family life and offered her the choice to veto his involvement with Hannah. I suppose he could go for some dramatic romantic gesture, but that would be noted by Shaw and Sarah’s never shown any indication of being wowed by that sort of thing (Bryce and his dump truck load of flowers).

        Much beyond that and Chuck becomes a stalker. Relationships take two people meeting halfway. One person can’t make it work through a combination of denial and force of will.

      • atcdave says:

        I don’t think we need to make it about which of them is the villain. Through the first two seasons both characters were easy to like and respect. Starting in The Ring, and continuing through this season, they have constructed an impossible scenario, that has been no win for both characters. This goes back to why I dispise the reset; it has damaged both, its no fun, and diminishes the show and characters in every way. The situation will be fixed by 3.13 at the latest, so even if this season is a total write off; the back six, and potential S4, should be vastly better.

      • Mike B says:

        Didn’t JS say there was going to be alot of romance in season 3. I hope it’s the back 6 between Chuck and Sarah because it sure wasn’t in the first seven.

      • atcdave says:

        There is still the remote chance something lies in the immediate future. Not that I’m holding my breath mind you; I wouldn’t bet on anything until late April.

      • Faith says:

        what does he need to do? Give her time to heal from Prague for one. Two say it straight out…don’t give her an opportunity to put up walls and backtrack.

        Tell her you love her and want to be with her and that you know she loves you too! And don’t just say “I love you” and faint coz you’re dying!

        Man up Charles 😉

      • weaselone says:

        That’s a good point. Real men like Shaw don’t faint when exposed to potentially harmful gas.

    • Jason says:

      liz, 3 things: on how chuck chooses sarah in the end, I think sarah has to say “I love you chuck” – it is her turn (regardless of where one is at in the current arc or what either character has or hasn’t done), chuck will have to choose at the point, yes or no. But something has to shift in 3.8, I think symbolically the ‘punch’ is the turning pt in the arc, don’t know how many guys out there have actually hit someone in the jaw or been hit, but for the normal guy, it is a pretty big deal, does not come easy or natural. Finally, I think something will happen that parallels the ballerina scene in 1.1, just as sarah kind of knew then that chuck was special, something little will prove to her that he has not changed, chuck is still chuck to quote Ali adler twitter.

      • weaselone says:

        I agree. The punch is definitely a turning point. It also strikes the true beginning of a more assertive Chuck, hopefully on both the team and the in the romance.

      • Mike B says:

        Also don’t forget he is essentially punching his boss. There has to be serious consequences for that, unless Shaw is illiciting the response he wants.

      • weaselone says:

        Well, Chuck is the Intersect. Plus it’s not as though Shaw’s going to want to drag things out and expose that he’s fraternizing with a subordinate.

      • Waverly says:

        Do we know for sure that the punch has anything to do with the relationship between Shaw and Sarah?

        Remember that preview with Sydney asking “What’s it like being a world-class spy”? How many of us had the concept she was talking with Devon?

      • atcdave says:

        I don’t think we know; it may have more to do with Hannah being a plant, or maybe he finds how Devon was exposed to the Ring, or just generally what scheming jerk he is.

      • kg says:

        Jason

        Most of the friends my age growing up were at least my size or bigger. I also had friends who were older. My dad was agressive and often angry.

        The men in my life were rough and tough. I had to fight and scrap for a lot of things. Physically. It was a mission for my older friends to beat me simply to make me tougher.

        I had no problem popping someone in the jaw, face or head provided that they deserved it. I have no recollection of being a bully. In fact, I recall enough times where I got in brawls simply to defend or protect girls or smaller males that I liked or considered friends.

        I’m 44 today, but there was a time in my early 20’s I was rocked by someone much taller and heavier than me. I was also drunk and when I awoke I found myself passing through a CAT Scan machine. I guess that was more horrifying than taking the punch.

        The boys allowed me to believe I was tough, but there was little they could do for my alleged glass jaw.

        You’re right though. This is huge for Chuck. He’s nearly 30. I had already deliverd several crushing blows to that point and also received my fair share.

        I never thought about it much. It wasn’t a big deal to me. You did what you had to do to survive.

        Maybe there’s some latent psychological damage done to me I’m not aware. We’ll see.

        Maybe this helps answer your question.

    • herder says:

      Liz, I agree that Fake Name won’t be the end of bad times for Chuck and Sarah. I think that by the end of Fake Name, or certainly by the Beard Sarah will have decided against Shaw but Chuck won’t know that so we get jealous Chuck. Also deciding against Shaw doesn’t mean she has chosen Chuck.

      I don’t think that there is one moment that will decide things for her but rather a series of things will show her that Chuck’s nature hasn’t changed. The story has set up a number of crisises in Chuck’s life; conflict with Morgan, Awesome recoiling from what Chuck has to do, the whole issue of using guns, what ever the story is with Hannah, conflict with Shaw and Chuck’s own feelings about what he has to do in his job.

      Over the next six episodes Chuck has to deal with these issues and deal with them in a way that is his own, not the typical spy way (like he dealt with Ellie’s question about Paris) and Sarah has to see him dealing with them. As for Chuck choosing Sarah, I have little idea of how he does it (it belongs in the duh files as far as I am concerned) but I can see the push to decide coming from Awesome, Morgan or Casey.

      Having said all that I think the nadir of the estrangement between Chuck and Sarah is in Fake Name, that things start getting better in that episode and we have a slow but steady progress to their mutual decision in the Other Guy.

      • atcdave says:

        The biggest problem I have with this is how utterly depressing it would be to have a conflicted Sarah for the next 6 episodes. I think we will know her choice by the end of 3.08. And since I can’t imagine them wasting her name reveal in any way other than telling Chuck (well, she could tell Chuck in a later episode, after we know the name, but this is an Ali Adler episode, so I think that’s unlikely), I think Chuck knows her choice in 3.08 also. It will be the actual circumstances of figuring out how to be together, and how to admit it without someone getting fired or reassigned, that will take the remainder of the season.

        I know this may be pure wishful thinking on my part, and I know I may be very unhappy with a lot of this season (I already am); but I also know I’ll be very happy when things finally do look up.

      • herder says:

        Dave, not necessarily, you could have scenes of Sarah showing pride in Chuck’s accomplishments (think of her smile in Dream Job when Papa B says he is a genius) which she has yet to do this year. You could have her realizing how comfortable she is working with him on missions, you could have her wanting to do family things with Awesome and Ellie but realizing that her decision is what is preventing her.

        There are lots of ways that the feel good element can be reintroduced without having them a couple yet. Essentially she can rediscover that he is her best friend in addition to the man that she loves.

      • atcdave says:

        Herder, I know there’s still a lot they could do with that, I’m mainly saying I hope they don’t. The scenarios you mention are all depressing, or bittersweet at best; which isn’t at all what I watch this show for. I would much rather see Chuck, Sarah, and the extended gang laughing together again after a mission. If it gets drawn out to 3.13, the whole season will be a black hole to me. I’m already not sure I’ll buy the season on disc, if there is no more than a half dozen episodes I actually find fun, I certainly won’t.

        That’s just my selfish reasoning. I would add, the show has never been downbeat so long. The current two depressing episodes in a row (three for hard core ‘shippers) is approaching or at their limit.

    • amyabn says:

      Liz, I haven’t seen any details on 12 or 13, but based on what you have outlined, I hope in 12 Sarah is taking pride again in what Chuck is doing, and in 13, he does in fact prove he is the guy she fell in love with. That would be a nice return to the show we fell for and be a gradual swing vs. a cheap payoff moment.

  12. joe says:

    Sorry I’ve taken so long to comment.

    One thing makes me think that your theory is more than idle speculation, Liz. It’s the description of S3 as “3-D Chess”. My translation is that there’s something subtle and hard to see intentionally placed in the storyline.

    My vintage ’60s brain immediately jumps to an old Star Trek line, though. Not chess, Mr. Spock. Poker. In chess all the information is out there for you to see, on the board. In poker, you have to read faces, read the tells.

    Why didn’t Sarah say “He’s my type.” at the end of 3.07? I still don’t know what “I have a type.” means. I’m not reading the tells correctly.

    • atcdave says:

      I agree this will be complex in the unfolding. Liz, I love your theory; and I don’t believe it for a second, but it is entertaining. I keep thinking about the “3-D chess” line, my biggest hope for now is that Chuck isn’t the only one not playing a game (I don’t mean I hope someone else isn’t playing games, I hope Chuck IS).

    • amyabn says:

      I just finished rewatching Mask. The tell is that she said “a type,” while practically beaming at Chuck. Her type is a hero, and if you go back to S2, Sarah kept telling Chuck he was a hero. There was a very wry smile from Chuck. It was so nice to see Chuck and Sarah smile as they went in to get the mask. As for Hannah (to get back to Liz’s great post), I don’t think Sarah would pick a girl to get physical with Chuck. Shaw would, Beckman would, but since I think it is all a giant con, I think they are setting up Shaw to think they’ve both moved on. Hope I’m right!

      • Jason says:

        unfortunately, I have now concluded chuck is not on the con, he would not agree to hannah meeting ellie (3.8 script hint) under ANY circumsatnces if he thought even a 1% chance that hannah was ‘ring’ – which he probably should, given he is the most important asset in all of the spy kingdom??????? I also have concluded chuck moved on in 3.5 for real, he has shown little toward sarah, other than the funny little jealousy scene. Sarah – she is in some different spot right now – could be almost anywhere – I hope the damage is minimal to the show, and that by 3.8 I start seeing some happiness in the show, I just don’t know why the casual viewer would have understood the end of 3.6 or 3.7, let alone enjoy it?????

      • lizjames says:

        Amy-
        My speculative post notwithstanding, I continue to hope that the reveals in future episodes show us that Chuck and Sarah have been communicating/plotting/planning on some level for a long time. I think the jealousy scene was all about signals (Why didn’t they get jealous when they partnered up? Why only when they KNEW Shaw would be in the truck and listening?) I also hope the conversation at the end of Mask was also about signals that Chuck and Sarah mutually understood.

        I mean, it won’t take the sting out of this season, but it would be great, even in flashback, to show that Chuck and Sarah were somehow making the journey (ahem!) together these past episodes.

        That’s what hurts about this year. Not that TPTB are doing what they are doing in the manner that they are doing it.

        But that they didn’t have confidence in the audience, the ratings and their own writing skills to write for Chuck and Sarah TOGETHER on this difficult path. Neither of them should have been alone based on what they went through together to get to the point of Intersect 2.0. The writers could have been brave–and wrote for adults, who understand that “together” doesn’t always mean sex and love and “coupledom” immediately.

      • weaselone says:

        Sarah’s beaming at Chuck throughout the conversation. It only changes as he turns and walks away. It’s fake.

        Now I admit that Sarah probably actually meant, or was thinking of Chuck when she mentioned she had a type. It’s not that I don’t give some credit to the idea this is all a setup of Shaw by Sarah and Chuck, but it doesn’t have to be. Sarah could simply be hiding her feelings from Chuck and trying to push him on because she feels she’s standing in his way professionally and personally.

        This all fits if Sarah still has feelings for Chuck, but has decided being with Chuck is impossible. He’s still dedicated to becoming a spy and he’s going to be a solo agent. Even if Sarah wasn’t too hurt to open herself to him again, she’d only serve to make it more difficult for him to move on personally and do the job he was meant to do.

      • Who Dat says:

        If Sarah is trying to protect Chuck, this makes a lot of sense to me. This idea keeps the most consistency in the story. The only reason Sarah would Deny herself some Chuck would be because she is trying to do whats best for him. This is why Shaw is a diversion for her.
        This would lead up to the punch and maybe our favorite blond realizes that Chuck needs her, not for protection, but to be who Chuck wants to be.
        I am such a shipper…lol.

      • amyabn says:

        Liz,
        I agree that there are signals going on. I rewatched it yet again (Mask) and the whole time they are doing the 180 speech, they keep looking off camera, which makes me think they are reminding each other that they are being listened to. That is why the words aren’t matching their facial expressions.
        Weasleone,
        I think the expression changes because they are apart. She knows she has to go in and flirt with Shaw, and Chuck knows he has to sell the con as well, with Hannah. Just my 2 cents.

      • Waverly says:

        Sarah’s last expression, just after Chuck turned away, was a sigh of loss mixed with resignation. Maybe there’s some frustration too.

        I think that expression was genuine; her radiant smiles beforehand were part of her mask towards Chuck, trying to be supportive of what he was doing at her expense.

        And as I said before, I don’t see the evidence that Sarah is running some complex con on Shaw; I think she’s just playing along, trying to figure him out.

      • Mike B says:

        I just watched the Mask again. I think what we saw on the screen is what it is. Especially with regards to Chuck. I think Sarah’s sigh at the end was just her resignation that they are both moving on. Which again makes those last 10 minutes even worse. I think in episode 8 Sarah has a change of heart about a relationship with Shaw. Also Shaw answering the door in only a towel..very reminiscent of Cole, don’t you think.

    • Ernie Davis says:

      Don’t forget that at the end of Pink Slip Beckman basically ordered Sarah to keep Chuck’s emotions in check, essentially putting her back in the role of his handler. Beckman basically repeated that order, and Chuck heard it, in Three Words, just after Chuck told Sarah he loved her and just before Sarah told Chuck the cost of becoming a spy, get over your feelings. We know the two still have feelings for each other, but as far as Sarah is concerned she needs to keep Chuck from going all emotional and failing as a spy both because that’s her job and for his own protection. Remember in First Class Shaw stops Sarah from picking up the phone by noting that if she keeps coddling Chuck it will get him killed some day. Sarah is doing what she’s always done, sacrificing what she wants for Chuck and her job, and walking a fine line in her loyalties. Allowing Chuck to think she and Shaw were somehow together when they clearly weren’t in any real way was her giving Chuck the nudge to move on.

      As far as Chuck, well both Weaselone and I have described his situation several times, he tried to patch things up with Sarah and she basically said friends is as far as this goes. It’s a slight reversal on Crown Vic where Sarah beat up on Chuck for an episode and wanted to patch things up at the end and Chuck stopped it at friends, ’cause he’d had enough kicks to the groin lately.

      • lizjames says:

        I’m no expert on these matters, but wasn’t Chuck doing the smile-at-her-lips-and-push-her-hair-behind-her-ear trick that Sarah showed him when he had to go on the con with Jill?

      • amyabn says:

        I’m trying to reply to Liz, but yes, I got the feeling Chuck was using the “seduction skills” he learned from Sarah for Jill to use on Hannah. I didn’t feel that any of the kissing was particularly passionate and was more like two kids just fooling around. Chuck seemed pretty hesitant, and I think that is more about his feelings for Sarah and for not wanting to hurt Hannah than some warm and fuzzies he was feeling for her. We’ll know soon enough.

        As for the dinner, I hope he ends up showing up with sarah instead.

    • nycfan says:

      Joe,

      You are right, this is Poker. Sarah knows Shaw has read her entire file, and he knows about her relationship with Bryce Larking and the 49B results with Chuck. Shaw knows she has a type, and my guess she is using that to her advantage to play Shaw. He started making advances toward her for a reason, and it is in her team’s best interest to figure out what he is up to. I doubt Daniel Shaw goes after every female agent he works with. She is playing Shaw, hence the “I have a type” comment.

      • Zsjaer says:

        She is ? i will be very surprised with that. Now more then ever..with that french spoiler of her dropping a”tear” cuz of Shaw

      • Faith says:

        I’d shed a tear for him to if he dies but was instrumental in bringing Chuck and Sarah back together way earlier than 3.13.

      • kg says:

        Sarah in the fabric of team Bartowski reminds me a lot of Batman in the dynamic of Super Friends, or better yet, The Justice League.

        I believe there was a thread on this site dealing with or asking who the leader of the team was.

        Casey, his leadership is like Superman’s. He’s the biggest, toughest guy. Shoot first and ask questions later.

        Sarah leads more like Batman (although she would look fantastic in Wonder Woman’s costume)in that she has the fighting skills of the Caped Crusader, but also the cunning and intelligence to get results a different way.

  13. Waverly says:

    I think the scenario of Hannah working for Sarah is implausible. Some reasons have already been mentioned above. Also, as a practical matter, there really wasn’t the opportunity for Sarah to arrange anyone to be seated next to Chuck on such short notice.

    But the real reason is that I have a hard time believing Sarah had the time and inclination to befriend someone that she could trust in this matter and that also had the skills that Hannah has.

  14. herder says:

    Does anybody find it strange that when Lou showed an interest in Chuck, the general insisted that she be checked out, yet when Hannah shows up no one seems curious.

    I mean Fulcrum knew something was up with the Buymore, they sent Ned in on a sting. Vincent discussed the Buy More with the Ring council, and they said “yes Fulcrum has lost Agents there”. The black hole that is the Burbank Buy More should be something that they are interested in checking out.

    Having been attacked there once, the good guys should be extra cautious about who works there, Shaw even said that he had read the files about Buy More workers when he had Chuck slip the drug into Jeff’s coffee. Yet no one thinks anything when an over qualified Hannah arrives and latches onto Chuck.

    • Jason says:

      and now chuck is cooking dinner at ellie’s for hannah and his family – so many inconsistencies in the show – all essentially are given a free pass, until they mess with the shippers. my fav inconsistency was the last scene of 2.22, chuck flashes, fights the bad guys, casey sarah watch him fight, almost sure they were not handcuffed or restrained in any way?

      • Who Dat says:

        They were all shocked, besides Chuck seemed to be doing well all by himself. In fact they were so shocked it led to one of my favorite lines…”CHUCK ME”

      • weaselone says:

        Sarah and Casey were in restraints.

        Chuck has indicated that he can cook at least one dish, and that was at the beginning of season 2. For all we know, he picked up a few additional dishes because he wanted to impress Sarah, or hoped she’d stay with him and someone has to be able to cook.

      • atcdave says:

        Sarah and Casey both had manacles on.

      • lizjames says:

        Jason-
        There will be no dinner. Really, you have to read these fake out synopses carefully. Ellie will corner Chuck what she saw, demand he bring Hannah to a dinner and Chuck lies and says yes. Hannah is already gone. We just need to know who she’s working for and the plot twist. There’ll be no dinner.

    • weaselone says:

      Maybe they did and she was clean, or maybe they haven’t simply because Chuck is now technically a spy.

    • atcdave says:

      I do agree it seems sloppy, but; I don’t believe we need to know every administrative detail of how the CIA/NSA does business; by which I mean, either they did a check and we simply weren’t told about it, or she’s an agent and they already know everything about her. I’m far more bothered by the logical disconnect of Team Bartowski being the best the agency has in S2; and then declared disfunctional in S3. The mood and chemistry of the show has been wrong all season.

    • herder says:

      Also maybe the person that signed off on Hannah being ok is the one running her as an agent whose target is Chuck.

  15. sd says:

    Great article…but my feelings run with the first post response–with one caveat.

    I suspect Hannah is a plant–by Shaw. He has surmised Chuck’s “type” is a brunette…and planted one next to him on the plane. In epi08 Chuck finds out he’s been played and tracks down Shaw. He now trusts no one–including Sarah who has “moved on” with Shaw. He think she knows…and sets up the scene where Sarah tells Chuck her name as a show of trust.

    However, when Shaw said in First Class that he doesn’t leave people on their own…I do think that was in reference to his ability to control the plane “at will” with Sarah’s experience as a pilot.

    But at the end of the day…I think we posters have taken a simple writing convention and turned it upside down…we are reading too much into signs and situations because we can’t believe professional writers would give us the last few minutes of Mask without a “story underneath the cover story”.

    sd

  16. joe says:

    I don’t recall if I’ve welcomed you to the group properly, SD. It’s always good to see new commenters here.

    Yeah, we’re definitely trying to hash out how much to take at face value and how much to follow the Beckman dictum “Don’t trust anybody.” My gut says that there’s more than a little deception going on here, but we don’t know how far that goes.

    What’s new to my mind is the idea that Chuck is no longer so naive. If he’s the one running the con (whether or not he’s in cahoots with Sarah, or with Shaw, or with Casey or acting alone) it’s a very interesting development for the C&S relationship. It’s a very positive one, in fact.

    • Jason says:

      joe, I love the con thing, as it lets CS off the hook and means S1 / S2 meant something, if chuck is on the con alone, it has been for a while, possibly could make up that when shaw showed up he decided to distance from sarah to protect her -hannah was convient – in 3.7, his saying shaw was ok, might again have been him trusting sarah’s ability to handle shaw (geez would that be growth) – this could all be done independent of sarah who is a basket case emotionally (just like chuck S1 / S2) – but why would he let hannah meet ellie at her house??????

      • lizjames says:

        Jason-See above. There will NOT be a dinner…

      • Jason says:

        liz, what do you think of the chuck con theory, his actions 3.5 thru 3.7 seem more illogical than sarah’s in some ways to me, not that either seem right

      • lizjames says:

        Jason-
        I’d like to think Chuck and Sarah are working together somehow. That at some point they knew danger was coming in the face of Shaw or the Ring or something and that they are communicating on some level. But that is my wish–which probably holds as much water as my “Hannah belongs to Sarah” theory. It’s rank speculation…

      • joe says:

        Jason, Yes – you got what I was trying to put across. Every time I look at it the way Liz has proposed, and every time I try different variations of someone running a con here, it always comes down to Chuck trusting Sarah a hell of a lot. – much more than what we see if we take things at face value, and in fact, every bit as much as we saw (or even wanted to see) in The Colonel. The word “Partner” means more, now.

        I’m getting too far down this track, though. If it’s close, then I’m too near spoiling myself in precisely the way I don’t want. If not, then I’m crawling deeper into disappointment, if only because the drawn out nature of the C&S romance has become excruciating.

        I haven’t had time for the NBC Boards lately, so I don’t have a feel for the mood of the larger community now. But I’m seeing a bit of growing excitement and anticipation here. Feeling it myself, too.

  17. sd says:

    Thanks, Joe…

    I enjoy reading the blogs and posting. Btw–is there a new Ep8 promo out there? I haven’t been able to find it

  18. JC says:

    Just wanted to post this, very good article on this whole C/S situation, fans and the writers.

    http://www2.macleans.ca/2010/02/10/going-down-with-the-ship/

    • atcdave says:

      While I disagree with much of the tone of the article, he alludes to a point I strongly agree with; The romance comes to dominate the show, and push aside or undermine other elements, but only in its negative application. I’ve been saying for months; let a happy Chuck and Sarah be the central feature of the show, and everyone will happily devour the spy stories and the Buy More humor. I think many of us would prefer that show. I hate just writing about a romance; seriously, I’m a guy, I play wargames, I watch football, I study military history; does anyone really think I want to watch a show with a romance as its dominant plot? But when they mess up the happy spot, they force the issue, its the only thing many of us can focus on until it is right. Let’s get it right, and move on to other things!!!!!!

      Does that make me a ‘shipper? I guess I can live with it if so.

      • joe says:

        I agree with you here, Dave. For my part, I like the romance dominating, ’cause I can get my wargames on the History Channel, and I have been finding Leonard and Penny to be too light-weight for my tastes.

        But you’re absolutely right that it doesn’t have to be negative in it’s application. The writers *could* get onto other things if the romance got to it’s “happy spot”, as you put it.

        I’m not sure I buy that it’s as unintentional as Jaime Weinman makes it out to be in the article, though.

      • Stef62 says:

        This time last year I was looking for more Casey time, because he’s under utilised as character.

        However the writers have pushed the C/S romance part of the show front, and center.

        So obviously when that part doesn’t appear to work properly, people are going to focus on that, and I’m no different.

      • Lucian says:

        Dave – I feel your pain. I didn’t think we were watching a prime time version of “Days of Our Lives”. The chronic angst diminishes both the characters and the story they are telling.

    • amyabn says:

      Thanks for the link. I just left a comment there.

      • JC says:

        Another frustrating thing is by bringing in Routh and Kruek they have less money for Ellie, Awesome, Jeff, Lester and Big Mike. Those characters always brought balance to the romance and angst.

      • Waverly says:

        Does anyone know if it’s actually true that for regular characters (such as those listed in the beginning credits) the amount that the actor is paid depends on their # of lines or face time or some such measure?

        I would have thought that they all had fixed contracts, so that additional actors (and therefore reduced visibility) would not impact their earnings nor reduce their costs to the studio.

      • atcdave says:

        I have no idea how contracts are structured, but I do agree with JC’s comment. Save the money they spent on Routh and Kruek; bring in some no name heavy’s, and spend the savings on more screen time for our eccentric regulars.

  19. Big Kev says:

    I’m going to throw another theory into the pot. At the end of the Ring, the Ring agent describes them as “Spies. The best.” Then in Pink Slip, Sarah talks about how she’s spent time working with “the best spies in the world”. I think that’s pretty specific use of language.
    Somehow, somewhere, Sarah is going to have spent some time while Chuck was at spy school trying to infiltrate the Ring, or being a double agent of some kind. Maybe she’s suspicious of Shaw because she didn’t come across him, or any reference to him, during her activities. Shaw in turn is suspicious because he knows what Sarah has been doing, and he knows she lied when he asked her about it?
    Just a theory!!

    • Stef62 says:

      JS/CF have mentioned that they want to to have another game changer for the ened of S3. How about Sarah is the Ring sleeper agent.

      Lets them keep the starcrossed lovers thing going, if they’re on oposite sides.

      BTW, I would walk away from the show if they did something like that

      • joe says:

        You’re not the only one, Stef. I would also walk if Morgan is revealed as a ring agent.

        I don’t think there’s any chance that either happens, though.

      • kg says:

        No doubt Kev. They go that far and it’s GAME OVER.

      • Faith says:

        Early in season 2 I could have sworn that Casey was a fulcrum agent. I mean sworn!

        In hindsight after Colonel and everything it’s really amazing that I even thought of it but it was pretty convincing lol.

        Nothing is as it seems lol.

      • atcdave says:

        I’m glad you clarified with your last line there Stef! I do agree. I’m still optimistic enough to think their next game changer is either an engagement or elopement; given the way the season started, an elopement seems more likely than I would normally say (you know, running off together with a more acceptable outcome). But given what a disappointment this season has been so far, maybe Sarah shooting Ellie in the head is more likely.

    • Waverly says:

      I always wondered if General Beckman might be part of the Ring.

      Then I noticed that there’s a short woman on the panel shown at the end of the Mask.

      But I don’t think it’s her.

      • amyabn says:

        I think Mama B could be our darkened female figure. She was probably Orion’s handler, they fell in love, and gave it a go. Could be contrasted nicely with the upcoming episode with the married spies.
        Anyway, Steven was getting goofy with the Intersect in his head and she may have had to go undercover to protect him and her family. Steven leaves later, same reason. Sarah gets captured wearing the charm bracelet, and MamaB realizes who she is. She blows her cover saving Sarah for Chuck. Family reunited.
        And yes, I’m TOTALLY speculating here!

      • Faith says:

        I love it.

      • joe says:

        Heh. I love it too. I really enjoyed the way Bakula played “goofy”. It was just enough and not too much for Orion.

      • Waverly says:

        That’s great, Amy!

      • atcdave says:

        I think that’s a reasonable scenario Amy.

  20. JC says:

    Ok huge spoilers if true, its in French so you’ll have to use Google or babel fish to translate.
    Seems to be legit because of set pictures.

    Just another warning these are huge spoilers.

    http://www.chuck-france.net/news/341-rencontre-dan-curry.html

  21. Jason says:

    liz I looked at 2-15, 16 and 3-7 in a row, certainly all kinds of stuff one could or couldn’t conclude, guess is I just don’t have your eye for this, left me more confused than enlightened

    2 things did pop up to me, sort of unrelated:

    1 – interesting in 3-6, casey used a containment unit to keep from getting poisoned from the shaving cream, show did not use protection in 3.7 (the creep)

    2 – a sarah non verbal tell theory – she looks left when she lies, right when she tells the truth – watch the two shaw exchanges thru those lenses, as well as the chuck exchange – pretty interesting, even if made up. I have not looked at all of 3.1 thru 3.6 for that tell, but looked at two scenes, the one with carina and the bracelet, and the one where sarah and chuck call friends in 3.4, Sarah definitely moves her head left of right pretty often, note too that ali adler twittered something about sarah and non verbal communication

    • Jason says:

      adler twitter: All, bt sarah’s fun bc its what she’s not saying that’s most important RT @Agentherder: @AliAdler Who’s ur fav character to write in #Chuck?

  22. Lucian says:

    I am thinking there is a post someone should write called “The Winter of Our Discontent: a Primer in How to Mess Up a Really Good Story”.

  23. Lucian says:

    What about the possibility that for Sarah, her relationship with Shaw actually starts as a con, but as Chuck’s behavior declines, she actually realizes that Shaw may truly be her type? I’m just spitballin’.

    • joe says:

      You mean the nerd *doesn’t* get the girl???

      Naw! Never happens IRL.

      I think you found the perfect way to get everyone to grab pitchforks and torches, though. 😉

    • Jason says:

      I don’t know how much lower he can go, his 1st solo mission, he fell in ‘like’ with a stranger (irregardless of who hannah is, a real spy does not do that), his second mission he burned his mark, lied to his sister, scared his bro in law, largely ignored the love of his life’s seduction of a mark, and ended up drowning his sorrows in a bottle of whisky, 3.7 he lost his best friend and the love of his life, and now in 3.8, seems like he is going to punch someone and have a gun pointed at someone, with the mission to shoot. How much lower can it go? I think the arc will right itself, in reverse order, girl, friend and family, spy choices (3.10 from casey), then 3.11 thru 3.13 will be the epic spy story, all the pieces will fit, 3.1 to present.

      • weaselone says:

        He still hasn’t found out that the new Intersect is slowly killing him, nor has he walked in on Sarah and Shaw going at it on his own bed.

  24. JC says:

    I’m going to be vague in case people didn’t read the French spoilers. Maybe we could have a spoiler post for people who did.

    I still believe its a con of some sorts. And part of it will be revealed in 3.08 but not the whole thing. It seems like the writers are following the “hero story” and this will be the dark moment, the failure. I go back to the comment by J/S things won’t be resolved but I do believe a lot will be revealed. I don’t think it’ll be all bad though, some glimmer of hope will be there.

    • joe says:

      We might. I read the Babblefish translation – pretty humorous, actually.
      But even accounting for that, there’s plenty of room for doubt about that spoiler. I mean, it even looks like both the originator and the writer were playing around with one word in particular.

      It is an interesting idea, though.

    • Waverly says:

      Don’t trust translations generated by machine (or by random people on the web) to produce faithful results, especially when dealing with subtleties.

      • joe says:

        Very true, Waverly. But it sure seems you *can* count on the machine generated translations to provide a laugh or two 😉

      • Waverly says:

        Yup, reliably. Try translating anything interesting to another language and then back again.

        The old joke (from 3 decades ago) was translating “out of sight, out of mind” and getting back “invisible insanity”.

      • joe says:

        Heh! I remember that! It was in one of Carl Sagan’s books.

      • Faith says:

        This is from Chorgan from the boards. A whole lot better I think, makes it seem more of a speculation than an outright spoiler:

        “A better translation than a website can give:

        Let me pass on some larger spoilers, even if I try to play Josh Schwartz, in that I mean I’ll give you the information. But I will put a twist on it. And in order to not waste your time by describing the show plan by plan as it will occur or even being precise about the information but rather by giving you a taste of what you will discover in this incredible episode (and more which occurs in the local area! ****-a-doodle-doo!) :

        – Paris is a city which finally does well for the whole Charah thing ^^.

        – In this episode, Chuck will do one of the most important things of his life. Something he has waited for, for a long time and which risks turing his life upside down forever.

        – It will be the last episode of Shaw this season but Chuck and Shaw will remain connected.

        – Sarah will shed a tear because of Shaw.

        – The flashes will not be had by just Chuck, Sarah will also have some in this episode

        Important note: As I mentioned above, I purposely “play” on the words with the spoilers. I say some without saying too much of it and when I say things that are the truth like “Sarah will have flashes” it is up to you how to interpret as you want, but think of the famous spoilers of Josh on ep 2×22: “there will be two marriages”.

        Hope that clears things up a little bit”

      • joe says:

        Many thanks, Faith. Clearly, someone is playing with the word “flash”. At least, that’s the way I took it.

      • Stef62 says:

        If as has been suggested by weaselone, that the 2.0 is going to be revealed to be killing chuck, maybe it’ll be transfered to Shaw.

        Hence the ‘connection’, and ‘tear’.

        Though i’m probably talking a load of crud here

      • atcdave says:

        Funny, I took it to mean Sarah was entering menopause.

      • Ernie Davis says:

        Well if they drag this out much longer…

  25. Waverly says:

    So I guess it’s OK to post/comment on those spoilers here….

    There’s a fair bit of redaction in the photos. But…

    Morgan is working at the Castle with Sarah.

    Chuck appears to be firing a real gun.

    • ReadySet says:

      Waverly: I think it is Casey and Morgan working together. The guy at the French site either intentionally or inadvertantly got the numbers mixed up: Chuck is 1, Sarah is 2 and Casey 3. As you read the scenes, you see that…

  26. JC says:

    If you look at the casting sheets, there’s a scene that involves Chuck, Sarah, Morgan and a bathtub. I’m hoping this means we’re getting the humor back.

    • Ernie Davis says:

      If you remember the Jackie Gleason show Honeymooners it was about a couple and their annoying friend…

      • compromisedcover says:

        Chuck, Sarah, Morgan and a bathtub: this reminds me of that scene in First Date involving Chuck, Awesome, Ellie and a shower. Hilarious!

  27. Jen says:

    I haven’t checked out that French spoilers ( those pics don’t show well on my iPhone!!!! Grrrrr) but from what I’ve read here I must get on it!!!!

  28. herder says:

    Trying not to look at those photographs, don’t want to have too much information to spend the next six episodes trying to fit my preconceived notions to what is happening on the screen.

    I view official and semi-official (leaks to Ausiello and the like) as part of the showrunners promotion, but this type of spoiler is usually spot on or completely off the mark. Also a lot of things get left on the editing floor. Finally had a bad experience with spoilers about the Ring that didn’t pan out, I felt bad about reading something that in the end didn’t happen.

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