More Will They/Won’t They Renewal Talk

Just wanted to keep everyone informed on the latest article over on TV By The Numbers.  Check it out:

Obviously no one has a crystal ball, cracked or otherwise.  I just hope we’ve hit bottom ratings wise and can help generate some more buzz to get us a Season 4.  I do have my qualms about this season, but I also think that we will have our heroes where we want them by the end of this season.  I’d like to see where a Season 4 could take us.  Yeah, I’m an optimist!


About amyabn

My name is Amy and I'm in the active Army as my profession. I love the show Chuck and want to see it succeed for many seasons to come. My twitter handle is amyabn.
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61 Responses to More Will They/Won’t They Renewal Talk

  1. StrikerChuck says:

    I am also optimistic

  2. BigCheese says:

    If the next ep was 309 I’m sure it will be fine.

    But 308 is not a good idea ^^

    (Mask nightmare continues!)

  3. atcdave says:

    I’m cautiously optimistic about where the show is going, and I expect S4 could be more the show I want to see; hopefully we’ll get the chance.

    Now, if I can just endure 3.08.

    • ReadySet says:

      They have actually lost me. I’m okay with the show ending this year. What’s to guarantee, if they get a fourth season, the big e19 cliffhanger is Chuck and Sarah breaking up? I mean, have these guys proven they are capable of anything else?

      Besides, now we have to watch e8 and have Ali Adler tell us we’re silly for caring about the characters she helped create. I mean, I do not understand creative people being angry with consumers of their product because those consumers CARE. It’s just insane.

      Well, okay, I got it. You don’t want me to care? I won’t. So if it all ends at the end of this year, I think we might actually be better off.

      At least we wouldn’t have to endure a summer of are they breaking up or staying together. Because I really CAN see that coming.

      • atcdave says:

        Readyset, I feel your pain! I try to remember how fun this show was for most of two full seasons. I still have some hope we’ll get back there; but a very dark cliffhanger at the end of 3.19 will probably be the end for me.

      • joe says:

        Oh, So dark, the con of man, ReadySet!

        The pessimism and optimism come and go like the tides. The story is, at heart, an uplifting one. It’s not going to do a 180 like that. Right?

    • amyabn says:

      Readyset, I hadn’t heard about Ali Adler’s comments. Can you share a link?

      I find that to be very discouraging. I read that to be something like, “hard core fans, thanks for saving us, but we don’t care that you care. We don’t care that you want the two characters you fought to save to be together. We dont’ know why you are up in arms. Enjoy what we are putting out or not, but quit complaining.”

    • BigCheese says:

      “the big e19 cliffhanger is Chuck and Sarah breaking up?”

      ReadySet, I can’t see that happen, with 307 (and probaly 308). Even don’t know if Charah will be together at the end.

      • ReadySet says:

        Listen, darlin’, take this to the bank: Chuck and Sarah are together by e13. And if the big “do you love me?” scene is at the end of e11 (my guess), it’ll be e12. And the mini-arc will be all about Chuck and Sarah together.

        I mean, book it.

        My fear is that, having “given” the “entitled” fans what they want, TPTB decide that the proper cliffhanger going into season 4 will be a potential break-up.

      • Merve says:

        I doubt that that will happen, ReadySet. If I remember correctly, Josh Schwartz has stated in an interview that he knows that they can only go to the PLI well so many times before it runs dry.

        I expect Season 4 to be a completely different kind of show than the first 3 seasons. We’ll just have to wait and see.

  4. JC says:

    How 3.09 does will probably give us a better idea on the state of renewal. The Internet promo would probably help the ratings more than the one with Law & Order.

  5. Faith says:

    I’m actually more worried about how they will write/end the season without knowing about the future. Will they do a Ring again or stop at Colonel? Will they find the balance in between and instead put Colonel at epi 3.13 and then from there draw on it? Remember they’re writing that script now.

    Because if it ends up (and I don’t think it will) this season is it, I’m officially upset.

    • atcdave says:

      We’ve heard another big change is coming for the end this season. I really hope its not some huge cliffhanger. I don’t like those anyway, and in a show that may be ending its really thoughtless of the fans. JS did say a while ago “the romantic sub-plot would be resolved this season”, so hopefully whatever they’re planning has more to do with the intersect or The Ring this time.

      • John says:

        An episode 19 reset would not surprise me one bit. JS had yet to show us that he can or will go away from the whole WTWT thing. Look at what he did to the O.C.

      • amyabn says:

        If I were a betting woman, I think Sarah gets intersected at the end of S3. Another game changer, doesn’t split them up, and just amps the action.

      • atcdave says:

        That is an interesting possibility Amy. We did see the one spoiler that said something about Sarah flashing. But I would be surprised if they went that route, I bet they’re just messing with us on the word choice.

      • Jason says:

        sarah flashing? – I sort of pictured a series of a doz or two doz 3 second flashbacks set to neat music regarding her best chuck memories, probably chuck is presumed dead or lost at this point

      • atcdave says:

        I think that’s actually more likely, they were just playing with their word choice.

      • Faith says:

        Is it too much to hope that the game changer is pregnant Sarah? I mean come on what could be a bigger game changer than a family/kids?

        Especially if you consider the peril of both her job and Chuck’s role.

      • atcdave says:

        I was really thinking a proposal or wedding; but a pregnancy would fit the bill, especially if they already hit us with the other earlier.

      • Big Kev says:

        Didn’t Ausiello’s spoiler say something about someone having a child?
        Cue the reckoning in 3.19. Cut to the final scene – captioned “nine months later” – of Sarah and Chuck with a baby. Which also means they can close the book if there is no season 4.
        I don’t believe it’ll happen for a second, of course. My money is on Sarah intersecting.
        Although how about this? Chuck has to send intel to Morgan, the same way Brice did to him – last scene, Morgan opens the email and falls on the floor….

        Wow. Too much coffee this morning!!

      • andpred says:

        If the spoilers that ChuckTV just posted are close to real the game changer could involve MamaB. The spoiler is that they are looking for a young Chuck and Ellie for 3.19. This would seem to involve PapaB and possibly Mom. This could be the big cliffhanger/gamechanger for Season 4.

      • Faith says:

        Big Kev, in the category of TPTB just can’t win 😉 : I would be so upset to be cheated of happy Charah moments. I mean after all this, the payoff is great because you can really get into it and you can see/hear the story unfolds (season 4 anyone?) and not just be told.

      • Big Kev says:

        Completely agree, Faith. Even though I’ve been less disturbed by the arcs of S3 than others, I still feel like I’m owed more than a fair share of Chuck and Sarah goodness – and I’d like that to be shown rather than told. I suspect that’s part of what the back six will be about.
        If we do get a Season 4, I’ll be interested to see how it plays out. I think TPTB were scared by the reaction to 3.07. I thought the speed at which they went into damage control and put out the Sepinwall interview showed that. I’m no expert on showrunning though, so I’d love to hear the thoughts of more informed people on that?
        If I’m right though, I think it means we’ll get a Season 4 more in tune with what we want. And going back to Ernie’s posts about the Heroes Journey, it makes sense. S3 seems to be about the descent and the ordeal, and I’m guessing will end with the Reward. Then S4 should give us the Resurrection and Return. Ernie may disagree!

      • atcdave says:

        I’m not more informed, but I have an opinion and I’m not afraid to use it! I’m not sure what lessons they learned from 3.07; their initial “damage control” actually made me angrier than the episode itself, and the professional media seemed to “rally” to their side pretty quickly. It wasn’t until we got the extended preview that I really had much confidence about what they were doing. To me it looks much better than the initial S3 stuff did, and hopefully by 3.09 I’ll be happier with the show in general.

        As far as S4 goes I agree Kev, I think it should be more upbeat and rewarding; although hopefully they don’t go too far that way, I prefer a slightly more menacing spy world as long as the friendly relationships remain friendly. I have some concerns about if this crew can handle an adult relationship without resorting to PLIs again, but assuming this season is handled well in the end, I’ll be happy to give them a chance.

      • weaselone says:

        Oh please don’t let the game changer be Sarah getting Intersected. I’d prefer they broke up again for old time’s sake. The only thing more irritating than the romance in season three is the seeming suggestion by various scenes that Chuck is not exceptional in his ability to upload an Intersect. Any old John, Dick, Larry, or Jane could walk around with a supercomputer in their head. In that type of universe the inevitable end result is that everyone eventually does walk around with an Intersect in their head because as technology moves forward the barriers to duplicating the technology erode. It’s like Peter Parker living in a world full of super power bestowing, radioactive spiders.

      • Jason says:

        my son and I were talking about one of his college classes, the professor made 10 technology predictions for the next 25 years – one of which was wireless power, one of which was internet assess near everwhere, but another was simple video games like pong, controlled by the mind only – I am kind of doubting that one, but who ever would have watched star trek in the 60’s and thought many of the children in the USA would be carrying around a ‘flip communicator’ let alone what amounts to a lap top computer??????

      • atcdave says:

        Weaselone, my preference would be as you suggest; keep Chuck unique. But we do know the original idea was to create more intersects; Bryce and Sarah were both attached to project Omaha, presumably because they both showed some aptitude for the project. If that’s true, Sarah as an intersect isn’t completely outlandish. Perhaps if Chuck is simply the most complete, or most experienced, something to keep him special, it wouldn’t be too bad.

      • weaselone says:

        I definitely see what you’re saying, but I’ve always found it disconcerting that we went from everyone being surprised that the entire database was in the head of a single individual to the CIA trying to upload it into a dozen agents and Fulcrum presenting it at a drive in theater.

        Assuming that Chuck is a far superior Intersect candidate even than Bryce, as indicated in Alma Mater in that he retains a significantly greater proportion of the download, how would they work that into the series?

        Technically, flashing on information should require putting multiple links together so if Sarah had a 60% retention compared to Chuck’s 98% you’d expect a significant number of links to be broken making a complete information flash far less likely. Also, in the case of skills. Is Sarah just going to freeze in the middle of something as her incomplete Intersect draws a blank on what comes next? In Chuck that type of event could be played for comedy, but Sarah is nearly always played straight.

      • weaselone says:

        Sorry, one thing I forgot to add. It’s also disorienting because the drift hasn’t been consistent from episode to episode. Usually, the scientists/programmers/engineers with the exception of Orion express surprise that a single person could upload the entire thing which almost makes it seem like downloads were meant to be in the form of smaller packets with information and eventually skills pertinent to the mission at hand. It always seems like it’s the overzealous government officials and foreign organizations that assume they can just dump the entire database into promising candidates.

      • atcdave says:

        Perhaps the more limited intersect is the key. Maybe Sarah only gets information, or the language pack, or something like that. I actually don’t think they will go that way anyway, and our discussion is purely academic. My guess is the “flash” spoiler we saw will have to do with flashbacks or something.

  6. Matt says:

    Left this in the wrong discussion, so here goes again…

    I think the best bet for renewal is the moving of Chuck to Sundays to start up just after the end of Sunday Night Football and running straight through to the end of the season, with the possible exception of Easter evening. NBC needs a good show to fill that spot and they already have a built in audience from football season.

    If JS and CF can right their “shipper” ship, Chuck has the possibility of running many more seasons in the Sunday night slot.

  7. Jason says:

    when the 13 episodes were written, there was no guarantee of more episodes or another season, these 13 were it, what I have trouble rationalizing (which I try to do with issues like this) why would you put out multiple controversial episodes (3.7 for sure, maybe 3.8, maybe 3.6) right around the time I would imagine the decision is getting made to cancel or not? It seems to me TPTB sort of knew (I think they even said they knew) that these episodes would not be popular, I really don’t get the strategy from a business standpoint? Some of you guys understand TV much better than I????

    • John says:

      Because JS knows that if Chuck isn’t picked up, he still has Gossip Girl, Valley Girls, and Hitched.

      • atcdave says:

        I doubt JS would intentionally undermine his own show. But I do think he is dtermined to tell the story his own way, at his own pace; regardless of business sense or fan desires. Whether that is good news or not remains to be seen.

      • John says:

        I’m not trying to say that JS is trying to ruin Chuck. Like you said, he’s intent on telling his story his way (regardless of whether fans will enjoy it or not). And if things don’t work out, its not that big of a deal for him because he’s still got his 3 other shows.

    • Faith says:

      The irony is that earlier in the year the talks centered on having the story told without all the downer and non-plot advancing episodes. They said they got to tell the story their way, in a compact format.

      Dude, I want my non-plot advancing episodes back! Because if Mask advances the plot (which it does I’m sure), I don’t know if I like it lol. By Mo Ryan’s account 3.8 doesn’t advance the plot but I’m not sure that’ll satisfy my either. In fact like I said I’m resigned to throwing stuff.

      In all seriousness though, not having the time or the security probably made them use the easy way out in plot advancement: PLIs. Because I can’t for the life of me understand any other purpose for them. They needed to get the story told but they didn’t have a lot of time to do so (which technically could also explain the offness of the Mask’s writing…one of my biggest beef).

      • Jason says:

        one thing positive, had they developed the routh sarah story properly, my 3 tv household total would be down to 0 or 1, maybe it was better done the way it was??????

      • JC says:

        Shaw would’ve been such a better character if he been Chuck’s Iago. Which he still might be but it gets overshadowed because of the romance angle.

      • weaselone says:

        Are we talking Othello’s Iago, or the Iago in Disney’s Aladdin because either would probably be an improvement. Do you think Routh could passably parrot Gilbert Godfrey?

  8. JC says:

    Anything would’ve been better at this point. Other than 1 episode he’s been completely wasted as a character. Hopefully that changes.

    And I feel bad for Routh he hasn’t been given much to work with as an actor.

  9. lou federico says:

    Prediction: Chuck Vs the Fake Name. Shaw releases the name not Sarah.

  10. Ernie Davis says:

    Lots of good discussion here. Sorry I didn’t get to weigh in earlier, yesterday was a beast with all day meetings and a late day at work. Rather than try to address everyone’s individual comments I think I’ll just post one big one on my take (with your kind indulgence).

    The way I see it is that since JS&CF say they had this all planned out, based on the actor contracts, they originally had this planned as a six season series based on the hero’s journey template. Season one being rather short was sort of a warmup for season 2, the ordinary life season if you will. Season 2 was the call and refusal of the call. Season 3 is the threshold season, season 4 the initial test and rebirth season, season 5 the return with the prize season, and season 6 the final test season. Within each of those seasons they also have the hero’s journey template applied, as I’ve outlined. I think this season is going to be rather unique. They had pretty much outlined this season’s journey as a 13 episodes, with the initial test in 7-9 and the final test/triumph in 13. Here’s my best guess. By the end of 13 Charah will be a done deal. I think JS&CF learned from last year and don’t want another summer of angst. They probably planned for another cliffhanger, which might have been slightly modified for the back 6. I also think that they’ll use it as a short break given the number of episodes and the two hour finale seem to indicate another two week break. The hero’s journey will be slightly modified so that 3.13 will be the initial test and the reward/result will be Charah with 3.19 establishing Charah as the spy couple crossing the threshold for the next season’s journey, so my wild speculation is that we’ll end this season in a pretty good place, all things considered. This also works because it lets them pre-sell season 4, the spy couple season, with the back 6 of this season. The network will see from the ratings (hopefully) and reviews that the new show works with them together. It also puts the whole relationship in a more convenient context for the writers. They can ignore it or use it as they see fit. It can be everything from comic relief to the dramatic anchor of an episode. I think it will also work because the writers will (finally) understand that WTWT is NOT the only way to introduce sexual tension and PLI’s are NOT the only source of angst and developing a romance, which will be a good thing for Hollywood in general.

    It also sets up my favorite self written episode. The Sarah pregnancy scare. Picture the pre-credits opening, Sarah heavily disguised with a hat, scarf, sunglasses, acting very furtive, entering a store, quickly heading down an aisle and grabbing something off a shelf so quickly we can’t see what it is. Next shot, Sarah exits the store, takes a cab, switches cabs, making sure she isn’t followed. Next scene, she arrives home, heads quickly to the bathroom while we pan around her apartment to see several pictures of she and Chuck together. Cut to a shot of a home pregnancy test with a big “+”, cut to a shot of her shocked face.

    Sarah: “Oh Chuck.”

    Roll opening. Much hilarity follows, including her telling Chuck, them telling Casey (and his many reactions ranging from joy to wanting to kill Chuck). Sarah going into full nesting mode, Chuck and/or Casey going into paranoid protective mode and all the rest. Possibly ending with some drama or a fountain scene where they find out either a false positive or an early miscarriage means it won’t be happening yet, but now it’s on both their minds that this is something they want, eventually. Like season 7 or 8. I also would love to see them play a season where Sarah and Ellie are both pregnant at the same time, turning the courtyard into a hormonal minefield for Awesome, Chuck, Morgan and Casey.

    Anyway, sorry for the slightly off topic diversion. As far as this season, and while I don’t necessarily endorse it, I think they felt to have a chance of going forward we had to buy Chuck as a spy, which required a darker tone, at least temporarily. If we didn’t have a sense of danger we wouldn’t be as invested in the spy stories and Chuck’s peril. Just my guess.

    I’ve already floated my theory that these are the episodes that develop Chuck as a spy, requiring the darker tone but allowing for some stripped down scripts and sets for cost cutting purposes. This also allows the fast paced more expensive fun episodes to air, and hopefully capture better ratings, in March through May when the pickup decisions and the May sweeps are happening.

    I’m still afraid we’ll be on the bubble again. Maybe we need to take the Subway challenge to the next level, get Subway to fund the show with a pledge of several million fans each signing a petition saying they will purchase one or more footlongs (depending on the size of your family) the night an episode of Chuck airs, complete with either e-mails or addresses so Subway can direct market to them. Anybody know how many subs it would take to fully fund a 22 episode season of Chuck?

    • atcdave says:

      You are a man of great vision Ernie, I would buy what you’re selling. I hope, as you say, they will take advantage of the flexibility an established relationship gives them, and would particularly look forward to its comic potential.

      I do think we’ll be OK for an S4 if the story does improve in the next couple weeks; I know I’m eager to start talking up my favorite show again (I’m keeping my mouth shut for now, believe it or not, but if 3.09 goes like most current speculation indicates, I’ll be trying to get everyone to watch again soon). Some good ideas for a pitch to Subway; I believe the show costs around a million an episode, but I have no idea what the corporate cut is on a footlong sub.

    • Jason says:

      thx ernie, only thing I am hoping is the trial was / is 3.6 thru 3.8, and that 3.9 starts the journy back, what does a hero have with him, his muse? I mean morgan, but of course, I was quite content with just watching the same show each nite, each season, which is pretty much like I feel when I watch castle or burn notice, but I am going to do my best to get into what you describe, try to view it in the type of light you presented, and enjoy it for what it is worth – I still ? how much the average fan is more like me than what you describe however??????

    • eaglemmoomin says:

      Sorry guys I can’t stand that idea. I’d stop probably watching! Personally I want to see a spy dramedy not Modern Family, Bartowski style. I’m ok with the idea of Chuck and Sarah beginning a relationship and some exploration of their baggage and various truth elements coming out ie ‘we need to redo every conversation we ever had’. But a kid no way its far too early and marriage would be the same which is why I hope the ‘honeymoon’ in episode 14 is a cover and nothing more. Chuck and Sarah need to spend some time as a ‘real’ couple first before lobbing in complications in an unrealistic manner. It would make the turn around in ep7 compared to the whiplash induced by a breakneck pregnancy and marriage seem minor.

      • Ernie Davis says:

        I agree it is way too early for a kid, like I said, season 7 or 8. A pregnancy SCARE could happen any time without the actual pregnancy or kid and still be funny. As for marriage…probably too early, but they could make it work as another of the impulsive decisions these two are known for. I think the beauty of them as a couple is specifically that it allows that part of the spy dramedy to be either put on the back burner and ignored or brought front and center if necessary. Kind of what they did in a lot of season 2.

      • atcdave says:

        The pregnancy scenario Ernie mentioned was season 7 or 8; we’ll never see it anyway, its just wishful thinking for some of us. And I’d bet money the honeymoon in 3.14 is a mission; I’d love it if it was for real, as close as they’ve been for most of 2 seasons I’d buy it, but odds are you’ll be happier than me (I do expect to be pleased by the way, just not THAT pleased).

      • atcdave says:

        What a shock, I agree with Ernie again. I’ve been saying all along, part of the appeal of making Chuck and Sarah a real couple (married, even better), is it wouldn’t require weekly “maintenance”. They could focus more on missions/adventure/mythology, the relationship as a done deed would keep even the most die hard ‘shippers quiet and happy.

  11. herder says:

    I thought I’d write about the plot points from the first 5 episodes that have been dropped or they are being strangely quiet about.

    – The General’s “they have to know”, havn’t seen much of the General and nothing has come up that falls into the category of something the team should have been brought up to speed on.

    – The disks that were in the golden case, we heard that “with these we have a chance” then nothing since.

    – Shaw’s wedding rings, specifically his wife’s, why would they be included with the disks, was it a message. Why would Shaw’s wife take her wedding ring/engagement ring on a mission then send it back. If it is part of her cover it would be missed and if not why bring it in the first place.

    – “Save the world from Chuck” this was tossed out in the first episode, then never mentioned again. Is it about his ability to control the intersect or is it about some inherent quality of intersects that make them dangerous.

    – Paris, we’re not done with Paris yet, I suspect that there is some connection between Orian and Paris.

    – Lisbon, I think there is something with Lisbon, that is where Sarah scattered Bryce’s ashes as that was where their first mission was. Could it also be where Project Omaha was based.

    – The assasin who ID’d Awesome as a spy, he is still out there, he can ID Awesome again and draw him back into the spy world.

    _ Chuck being able to rewire the impenetrable Ring phones, I like this and I think it is significant as it show’s Chuck’s value without flashes. I think his ability with the phones will come back to the story at some point.

    – Casey’s lie about Emmitt’s death, yeah I know there are spoiler photos about this but I tend to think of it in more of the trust issue, along the lines of Mauser in Santa Claus. Also it affects Chuck’s perception of himself as part of the team.

    Obviously not all of these will be dealt with in the next six or twelve episodes, but I am a bit suprised at how much spy stuff has been laid down in the first five episodes for later resolution.

    • herder says:

      Oh re Lisbon, that was where Sarah was going to head up the new intersect program, what better place than where it got it’s start with Project Omaha.

      • herder says:

        D’oh, scratch that, it was Zurich nor Lisbon that Sarah was going to in the Ring, wish I could edit posts rather than respond twice to myself.

      • Ernie Davis says:

        Actually in vs. The Ring I thought it was Zurich where Bryce and Sarah were to be going the next day for the new intersect project.

      • anonymous says:

        Good stuff, but if you are referring to where Beckman was going to send Bryce and Sarah in Ring, it was Zurich. Lisbon was referenced at the end of Pink Slip and it was where Casey and Sarah were supposedly headed because there were rumors of a Ring cell.

        In any case, lots of stuff. And I think that’s essentially what episodes 9-12 are about. The spy stuff.

      • Ernie Davis says:

        But Lisbon WAS where Sarah and Casey were to be going the next morning to look for another Ring Cell at the end of Pink Slip, so you are correct in a larger sense, we aren’t done with Lisbon yet.

        Especially since in 3.14 Chuck and Sarah are on a train that will apparently go through Basque country. Paris to Lisbon anyone?

    • joe says:

      Keep this list, herder. I’m sure a lot of these will be addressed.
      It’s the ones we don’t see addressed that will be the most interesting.

      Oh, and I’m not sure Chuck didn’t flash on the Ring cell phone. We saw some sort of schematic – an exploded engineering view of the device, that may have been a flash. It was very hard to say.

      • Ernie Davis says:

        Don’t forget RIOS Joe. Also, I thought the schematic of the Ring phone was on a monitor in Castle. The point was that he didn’t need to flash, he had his own skill set. I’m sure Chuck’s mad computer skillz will be used again at some point.

    • Jason says:

      I am pretty sure a spoiler was released unofficially that 3.13 will be shot in paris.

      I have always assumed protect the world from chuck was a mislead, already happenned and is over – the korean lady and lester

      I think what shaw knows and isn’t telling will be a big part of the show, probably something to do with more intersects and possibly the ring’s knowledge of chuck. sarah, and or the castle

      I have always assumed, the disks were an intersect program, not that it has to be, but seemed sort of obvious to me????

      I thought the case and interesect disks were eve’s mission, hence the rings were in there because she would not wear them while on a mission.

      that is all spitballin for sure, fun to speculate?

      • atcdave says:

        I agree about the “protect the world from Chuck” line. I think it was mostly a throw away to make things seem more dire, we saw a glimpse of it in 3.04 when he was feaking out in the Buy More, but the only “protecting” needed was for Sarah to escort Chuck from the building.

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