Shaw’s Evil Plan, Part Cinco

I almost don’t want to write this.    In past chapters,  I’ve tried to be as optimistic as possible about where things were heading;  and what “super spy” Shaw was up to.    But so far,  all my theories have been utterly wrong.   And Shaw seems to be nothing more than a creepy slug trying to take advantage of a hurting woman.

We have been assured there are shocking twists coming.   I sure hope so.    Shaw’s involvement is now half over (4, out of an 8 episode contract);  and I think we are more in the dark than ever.    The best guess I’ve seen is that he is driven by an obsession for revenge.   He will use Chuck to get it.    Its seems likely he’s just using Sarah also,  although we may get some twist like she reminds him of his dead wife.   If that’s true,  I think Shaw being driven further over the edge by seeing Chuck and Sarah together may come into play.   

At this point,   I don’t see Shaw as a traitor or double agent  (but maybe a triple agent;   naw,  way too involved for this crew).   I’m leaning towards doomed hero.    A doomed hero who likes to hit on emotionally fragile women, but still.

I really don’t have much more to say at this time.    If we learn anything interesting, there may be another chapter;  or if anyone has anything interesting to add, I’m always listening.


About atcDave

I'm 54 years old and live in Ypsilanti, Michigan. I'm happily married to Jodie. I've been an air traffic controller for 31 years; grew up in the Chicago area, and am still a fanatic for pizza and the Chicago Bears. My main interest is military history, and my related hobbies include scale model building and strategy games.
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192 Responses to Shaw’s Evil Plan, Part Cinco

  1. Matt says:

    I am still stinking to the idea of Shaw being a former RING agent that switched sides once they had his wife killed.

    • Matt says:

      meant to type “sticking” and not “stinking”.

      I think the dark side of Shaw is what will ultimately lead to his parting of ways with Team Bartowski. Either he will make a mistake that will get himself killed, or will sacrifice himself to save the others after his own actions put the team into danger.

      • JLR says:

        You had it right the first time…Shaw stinks.

      • atcdave says:

        Yeah, I think stinking was a perfect slip! I’m sure his relationship to the Ring will be complex. My bet is on him dying as a tragic hero. I’m really looking forward to the dying part.

      • JLR says:

        Yeah, I love me a good tragedy now & then…kinda like how most of season has turned out. Oh wait…

      • Stef62 says:

        And for a nice JS/CF twist why not make his wife Sarah’s sister, who she unknowingly killed while on a mission 5 years earlier, causing Shaw to want revenge against the Ring, and Sarah. It all makes perfect sense….lol

  2. Viridis says:

    I think Shaw is much more than a creepy slug. This may be giving him too much credit, but he is a master manipulator at dividing Sarah and Chuck.

    If he has files on Sarah, Chuck, and Casey, he should know from the first few episodes of Season 3 that normal Chuck has difficulty accessing the Intersect without Sarah. He also knows this from the “knowing you have something to lose” speech that Sarah and Chuck have feelings for each other, feelings that supersede their spy duties.

    So he plants seeds of doubt into Chuck, that Sarah is holding him back, and applies a sink-or-swim approach to Chuck in end of Operation Awesome, First Class, and beginning of The Mask. By pushing normal Chuck into spy Chuck, he alienates Sarah from Chuck while revealing that he, too, has an emotional side.

    His weak advances are rejected while undercover in The Mask, so he engineers a truth moment. I can understand why Sarah weakened by the Cyclosarin gas earlier than Shaw, but why wasn’t Shaw showing any effects by the time they reached the museum? Perhaps he had already secretly prepared and taken the antidote? What better time to “show” emotions than in a near-death state, and to be the first one there when Sarah recovers?

    And in the most recent episode, Sarah comes in to talk about her feelings for Chuck. Shaw makes token comments reassuring her, but the instant she talks about herself, he pounces and wants to know about the real Sarah Walker. He gets her to tell this secret and places himself as a confidant for her. He then calls her “Sam” to remind her that he now is her emotional anchor.

    Still unsure to what purpose though.

    • Marvin says:

      There’s been ample evidence of Shaw’s overestimation of Chuck’s abilities, seen in Operation Awesome and First Class. But notice that Sarah seems to have dropped her initial concern of Chuck being on his own? Is this by Shaw’s design, or Sarah’s?

      • Viridis says:

        I would say Sarah. After seeing him burn the asset Manoosh, she’s very concerned with Chuck turning into spy Chuck, that he’s too competent.

    • joe says:

      Here’s a thought.

      We are generally invited to see things from Chuck’s POV, to see things through his eyes. But Chuck’s not been seeing things clearly lately. He’s been “not himself” to say the least. Maybe this is why we can’t get a focus on Shaw. Chuck can’t.

      But last we saw, starting with the talk with Ellie, Chuck has started to find himself and see things more clearly. For this reason I’m going to guess that we will too, starting the next episode.

      • atcdave says:

        That’s a great observation Joe. We also know Routh’s original deal was for 5 episodes, later raised to 8. Makes me think at least some of his story lines will come to an end next week (like hopefully his creepy involvement with Sarah).

      • weaselone says:

        There’s one problem. It’s difficult to say that we’re conflicted because we’re seeing Shaw through Chuck’s eyes when most of the creepiness occurs while Chuck’s not around. Shaw generally seems less creepy when Chuck’s around and more like a legitimate interest for Sarah and mentor for Chuck.

      • joe says:

        I see what you mean, Weasel. But most of the non-creepiness has come around when Chuck *is* around. It’s the conflict between Chuck’s vision and the rest of what we’re seeing that’s leaving us unable to get a handle on Shaw.

        Hope that makes sense.

      • JC says:

        But Sarah has seen that and yet it doesn’t bother her. Hmmm

      • Jason says:

        love is blind – sarah’s in love with shaw, cut the poor damsel some slack

      • Faith says:

        If I believed Sarah was anywhere near “love” for Shaw I’d have quit this show weeks ago 😦

      • JC says:

        Didn’t the TBTB say Sarah would have a real choice this year between Chuck and Shaw? If she loves Chuck, you would assume that means the same about Shaw.

        Not that I believe that but it makes you wonder a bit.

      • Jen says:

        Sarah’s not in love with Shaw… i think at the most she’s filling up the empty space Chuck left in her.

      • Jason says:

        lets review if the shot was a half mile, takes 8 minutes to walk that far, lets call it 4 just for the fun of it, can even call it 3, which I doubt anyone on set could even run it in, except maybe Yvonne.

        Here is the i love you test:

        ok now, lets do just one thing, flip chuck and shaw in the last 2 SS scenes:

        sarah tells chuck her name,
        chuck says I’m going to kiss you,
        both look like they are having fun while shaw watches thru a scope
        would you call that love?

        shaw arrives at the door 4-8 minutes later, chuck answers, sarah’s vest is off and her hair is disheveled would your shipper heart go yes, yes, yes

        shaw punches chuck, chuck flashes and gets on top and starts pounded.

        raith takes aim, but gets no shot

        he now takes 4-8 minutes to arrive

        the whole while, chuck with the help of the intersect, pounds shaws face in an obvious unfair fight

        sarah mildly protests, but this trained killer sarah, stands and watches – shipper take, wtf is sarah doing letting chuck kill shaw, but yet, ok

        raith arrives, kicks butt, aims his gun at sarah’s head, chuck is standing where shaw is, everyone would still think she is looking at chuck, right???????

        casey fires the shot, everyone would say for sure sarah was willing to die for chuck

        2 or so hours later, in the basement, chuck and sarah are left, sarah mysteriously leaves – again, wtf

        but she shows up 5 minutes later with chinese and a crock pot, shipppers would be mounting their footlongs in excitement, then she says the heck with eating, lets get down to business mister or somethin to that effect

        IMO the shark got jumped in 3.8 in this take what you see at face value mode of chuck

        obviously things will work out different, BUT DON”T TELL ME 3.8 WAS A WELL WRITTEN EPISODE (YET)

      • weaselone says:

        The same actions can be taken with different motivations and depths of feeling involved. Infatuated teens and perpetrators of one night stands often perform the same physical acts as married couples, but the feelings, motivations and level of commitment are hardly comparable. Those horny teenagers often evolve into mature, married adults who I suspect feel significantly more for their spouses than they did for their infatuation.

      • Faith says:

        Jason, reading your scenario one thing occurs to me…the background.

        You keep on saying Shippers would be doing this, if this happened this…well I in particular would remember Colonel for one, Wookie for two and all the things in between. Love isn’t just one 8 minute act, it’s an emotion that grew from something. It’s something that continues to grow so long as it’s kept fed and cared for.

        Sarah does not love Shaw. She is keeping herself warm but you don’t find love in a hole (particularly an ahole).

      • JLR says:

        @Faith: NIIIICE…

      • Jason says:

        faith – I get it, I am a huge shipper, but face value, several things of what I posted are pretty compelling, the last scene after the confrontataion with chuck and the sarah life and death experience is compelling, more than keeping oneself warm, plus she watched chuck get pummeled, essentially defenseless vs a trained assassin (shaw), and did nothing but a girlish complaint, matter of fact, she kept herself warm all with the psycho dishing out the punishment

      • Jason says:

        Good shipper news and sarah centric news I would guess – I sort of got (conned) an answer out of magnus about what didn’t happened in 3.8 with SS, my question is the 438th post, his answer 440 in his 3.8 spoiler thread, it is essentially a repeat of something i posted here so I won’t copy and paste it, as I said to joe when I started blogging with all of you, I blog strictly for info, so sometimes I take an extreme POV to get information, seemed to work this time maybe?

      • Jason says:

        I did get magnus to call me a name – here is his answer (I am anonymous):

        TS, “anonymous” is just a typical negative shipper. And 101% wrong in their assessment of not only what will happen but what has happened. What a warped point of view.

    • metajoke says:

      But see, here’s another bit of stupidity this season. How can Sarah be creeped out by Chuck turning into a spy when she gets him in the club and virtually screams, Live the Lie!

      Yeah, Yeah, I know. Sarah is having an emotional crisis.

      And I say the show has jumped the shark.

      • Jen says:

        In the club CHuck HAD to live the lie… he was impersonating Rafe for the mission, he couldn’t at that moment be found out to be a cop. I think at thqt moment Sarah actually helped Chuck cause even he said he was freaking out. Sarah gave him the motivation he needed at that moment to go through what he needed to do.

        She still doesn’t like the changes Chuck is going through, She was telling Shaw about how concerned she was that Chuck had to be lying… because Chuck is not like them, a spy pretending someone he’s not.

        She is in total emotional crisis mode! that is the only explanation i cna come up with also for her to be hooking up w Shaw.

      • Waverly says:

        Sarah’s exhortation to “Live the lie!” resulted in Chuck’s last flash, I believe.

        Time to have a discussion of what enables and what disables Chuck’s ability to flash. And what parameters of a relationship with Sarah will be needed for them to be a successful spy partnership.

      • Ernie Davis says:

        I was saving this, for a post, but Waverly scooped me. Anyone notice the first thing Chuck did after the flash? Kicked Sarah halfway across the room. Anyone notice what he was looking at while next trying to flash? Sarah, unconscious on the floor.

      • SWnerd says:

        Hm…interesting indeed.

      • Lucian says:

        You are forgetting one thing – Shaw gets Sarah coffee every morning AND He knows she likes to bite the stirrers. It must be true love.

      • Ernie Davis says:

        That obviously trumps no olives extra pickles.

      • Ernie Davis says:

        Since I have the opening I’ll tease the post I’m working on. So, Sarah basically orders Chuck to flash, he kicks her across the room and hasn’t flashed since.

        When was the last time Sarah ordered Chuck to flash? Bo scene anyone? Who wrote that episode? Why didn’t Chuck flash?

        If I’m lucky you guys can save me 3200 words on the topic.

      • Faith says:

        Angel de la Muerte when he was inside that cell and couldn’t flash for himself but could when he talked to and realized Sarah was next door? Since that and the mess talk he’s really been relatively glitch free.

        Do I get the prize? 🙂

        But just to express an opinion, I actually don’t think this time around his “glitchiness” has to do with Sarah or for that matter Sarah’s relationship with Shaw. Not even the uncertainly of his relationship and love for Sarah…compared to any other time.

        This time around he somewhat has PTSD or a phobia in psychological terms because he has subconsciously (or consciously) associated that part of the job with the things that’s wrong with his life and the distastefulness of he is becoming and so it’ll be glitchy until he resolves that with himself (most likely with Morgan’s help—dude you’re a hero, you were always a hero, Chuck will be always be Chuck. Now flash!).

      • Ernie Davis says:

        I guess I’ll be doing this post, but the short version. In the bo scene Chuck wouldn’t flash because he didn’t want to hurt her. She said he couldn’t.

        Fast forward. She ordered him to flash, he hurt her, physically, then, through the surveillance of Shaw’s apartment heard how she was hurt emotionally watching him disappear, and couldn’t flash.

      • Waverly says:

        That was in Pink Slip, wasn’t it?

        I didn’t think it was emotion that prevented Chuck from flashing. He often was in an emotional state when he had to flash. I thought it was more a matter of confidence, of sureness — being able to do it without trying too hard.

        Of course there have been a lot of events or uncertainties that could cause Chuck to be sure of himself. But he has been getting better at flashing these past several episodes, despite his relationship with Sarah being rather iffy.

      • weaselone says:

        Sarah is the one person who Chuck loves that actually knows the real reason for his behavior. That his actions and lies are driving away the one person that should understand is a fairly shattering blow for someone who thought he was doing the wrong things for the right reason.

      • Marvin says:

        Let’s be real folks, he hasn’t been able to flash since she told her “real” name to Shaw. It’s like it was a code word that shut his ability to flash off.

      • Waverly says:

        Well, that may be true, but it’s an awfully small time period (data sample) for us from which to draw that conclusion.

      • Mi8tt8 says:

        Chuck’s emotions are clearly the remote’s flashes IMO.
        In both Pink Slip and Three Words, Sarah’s the one making him flash again, but the cause of the non-flashing state doesn’t always have to be her.

        In Pink Slip, right before he got fired, he could flash and then not. Sarah wasn’t there. It was more a personal confidence thing. And it’s after Sarah told him to not freak out, and that he could do anything, even more than the best spies in the world, that he flashed.

        In three words, he was freaked out by Sarah’s coldness and what Carina told him, and he needed to talk to Sarah. Once she told him they will, he flashed.

        Since then, he never really freaked out about himself, his abilities to be a spy or his relationships.

        But in Fake Name, he’s really down, he’s realising is “disappearring” as Sarah says. That’s why he can’t flash.

        Sarah is a big part of what can make him freak out, but not the only thing. On the other hand, she can calm him down through anything and make him flash. But she hasn’t really been Sarah the handler (the person that Chuck had to be to Awesome in vs. Awesome) lately.

  3. Marvin says:

    Shaw is interesting in that it seems he’s been given carte blanche by the CIA to “do what needs to be done” and that the information in the frisbee from dreamland is in some way extremely dangerous to the inhabitants of the Castle.

    Why? We don’t know, and nothing Shaw has done so far indicates a plan of action.

    We have wedding rings to indicate a past relationship with a wife whose death Shaw blames on his own mistakes. And that there is an operative inside the Ring that is controlled by Shaw.

    (I don’t buy the concept of Shaw being a “type” of Chuck, as he is far to narcissistic to have ever been a Chuck, though that is no doubt a path that will be taken by Chuck; the over-confident brought back to earth.)

    Here’s how I think it might unfold:

    Shaw is not a double or even triple agent, but rather an agent with his own agenda. Whether that is a vendetta or something even more revelatory, depends on the writers.

    I am of two minds as to whether Sarah is aware of the undercurrent, and is playing Shaw. On the one hand, her levels of discomfort/attraction are too wide, while on the other, she might just be confused and weak and seeking wisdom/comfort from someone she sees as a superior agent. Both issues have their problems.

    Whatever the direction, the plan that Shaw has crafted is going to blow up in his face, and it will be up to the intersect and his team to pull a very unwilling Shaw out of it. I think this will result in Shaw somehow sacrificing himself, which will both nullify the danger he put team Bartowski in, and redeem himself in the eyes of the team.

    It will also lay the groundwork, I think, of identifying at least one of the inner circle of the Ring, which will then have some bearing on the remainder of the season.

    But, I could be completely wrong, as I also see a Grim in my tea leaves.

    • Viridis says:

      When they opened up the case in First Class, I believe Shaw said something to the effect of “hope this agent’s sacrifice was not in vain,” implying the agent in the Ring was killed.

      • Marvin says:

        I’ve wondered about that, because it also seemed that the agent in question was Eve Shaw, but that would mean that the information was five years old, and therefore out of date.

      • Marvin says:

        It could also have meant the death of the courier who was carrying the case who died at the beginning of three words.

  4. Mike B says:

    I think Shaw’s evil plan is to make sure Chuck doesn’t get a season 4.

    • atcdave says:

      Sadly, I can’t really argue with that. I have this fantasy of TPTB admitting they screwed up this season royally. I might actually fight for an S4 if they admitted it.

      • JLR says:

        Schwedak has already said (hasn’t he?) that he wouldn’t change ANYTHING about how they did season 3. That’s the problem w/ taking an extreme position–makes it harder to defend when all the cards are on the table.

      • SWnerd says:

        People with God complexes will never admit being wrong.

      • atcdave says:

        yeah, that’s why I called it a fantasy.

    • Jason says:

      I’m hoping for a term to make it into tv culture called “shawed’ or ‘routhed’ definition: introducing a LI into your show one too many times causing cancellation –

      evil plan – I’m sure there is one, I think it will even be somewhat clever and more well thought out than some of what we have seen – I almost think some of the romantic disconnects we have seen may be as result of editing into ‘milder’ teen angst stuff, thereby creating some of the plot holes

      • Mike B says:

        I wouldn’t be surprised that if we get a season 4 that Ted McGinley is brought in as a PLI…lol

  5. ReadySet says:

    I think this will be my last comment anywhere on this blog because I’ve now, offically, lost interest.

    But consider this: Last year they kept bringing back Vincent to be killed, a la Kenny in South Park.

    This year, we can all legitimately claim in every episode: They’ve killed Charah! And they week they kill them again until we’re numb…

    As has been said here many times, the opposite of love isn’t hate, it’s disinterested.

    Disinterested here and checking out. Bye everyone. Enjoy the (ahem…) “payoff.”

    • JLR says:

      Ack, curses!! That word “payoff” again…

    • BigCheese says:

      ReadySet, I agree with them killing Charah, every week is a slap in the face. And you keep telling yourself: “Have faith!”. An hour you give up, and it’s that I saw with a few here. Unfortunately.

      I personally am still here because I want to understand what happened this season so far had no answers only questions.

      However, I am not an optimist, and I am also not optimistic.

  6. Gord says:

    It is my opinion that Shaw is psychotic.

    I was rewatching the episode – where at the end Shaw is playing with his lighter, and it finally dawned on me what that reminded me of.

    There is an old movie I recall seeing several years ago, I think called the Cane Mutiny, where the Captain kept playing with these ball bearings – he was a nut job too.

    Shaw’s behaviour in this last episode was brutal. First hitting the Assassin tied up in the chair, then the fight scene in the hotel where I swear he would have killed Chuck if the real assassin hadn’t showed up.

    If I were Sarah I would be afraid of this guy.

    • SWnerd says:

      Ok so I have to ask, did anyone else notice the weird red tinge of his eyes? It wasn’t like the actual eyeball, but the lids where they touch the eyeball. I don’t know if that’s just how Routh’s eyes are or if they were trying to convey that psycho look because I’ve seen similar things done before. Either that or he’s smoking something (Shaw or Routh). It really creeped me out though.

    • JLR says:

      The writers would us believe, it seems, that Sarah was appreciative, maybe even turned-on by Shaw punching the assassin… At least that was my thought upon viewing, and it made me dislike Sarah a bit more. Still trying to understand the rationale for why fans aren’t supposed to be upset/questioning of the fact Sarah is leg-hounding a guy w/ traits she desperately wants Chuck to not acquire..yeah, I know, she’s a mess emotionally.

      • SWnerd says:

        Agree. Her character is kind of pathetic right now. I guess we will have to attribute that to her stereotypical daddy issues.

    • Waverly says:

      He was also flicking his lighter when he was introduced to the team by General Beckman.

    • kg says:

      The captain’s name was Queeg and superbly played by Humphery Bogart.

      Van Johnson plays the naval officer charged with the mutiny, although it is clubhouse psychologist Fred MacMurray who plants the seed of Queeg’s craziness and pushes him toward the final act.

      Jose Ferer is the lawyer given the task of defending Johnson and his cohorts. Of course, MacMurray goes on the stand and cowardly testifies to knowing practically nothing.

      Desperate, Ferer “torpedoes” Queeg in cross examination, turning his stomach as he watches poor the poor, battle fatigued captain crack and mumble all the while preocupied by his ball bearings.

      A livid and torn Ferer manages to get the boys off the hook and at a post trial “celebration” gets wildly drunk and proceeds to announce and expose MacMurray for the fraud that he is.

      When finished bloviating, Ferer tosses a drink in MacMurray’s face and challenges him to a fight outside. MacMurray is embarrassed, frozen in his tracks and speechless.

      “I’m stinking drunk,” Ferer says. “That should make it a fair fight.”

      Gord thanks for getting me going.

  7. Faith says:

    I hate that there were 4 other parts to this that I missed coz you guys are way too prolific lol.

    Creep, stalker, psycho. Pick your poison.

  8. JC says:

    You know with all the speculation about Shaw’s plan. It makes wonder why so many of the first eight episodes were devoted to the romance angle or at least large chunks of episodes. I understand it but I worry that so much has to be resolved in 5 episodes that its going to feel horribly rushed.

    • John says:

      That’s because their main goal for bringing in Shaw was to be Sarah’s PLI, their secondary goal was the spy story.

      • herder says:

        Despite what they say about Shaw being an expert on the Ring, name one bit of insight or intelligence that couldn’t have been done equally well by having the General say “our sources have discovered…”. Despite protestations to the contrary his only role has been to be a PLI, and he is so creepy that he has failed at being convincing at that.

      • Waverly says:

        Well, he did produce useful information in real-time about the Ring agent/stewardess Serena on the plane in First Class.

    • Jen says:

      Yeah.. i feel the same way… there major plot holes this season or they are just gonna cram all the explanations at the end. I dont’ get why they are doing this!!!! Could we really be so far away from finguring out what TPTB have in mind? I don’t see any use fro SHaw either, other than annoy us. ALl that tells us there is somethign more goign on is that conversation w Beckman.

  9. kg says:

    I think it was Joe a couple of days ago who intimated that Sarah was off her game and not the most effective spy recently. He’s on target.

    From my vantage point, Shaw has not been too impressive either. He’s certainly no “Super Spy.” I think Viridis may be on to something with Shaw rigging the gas scene, purposely weakening Sarah so that he could look like a hero.

    He’s nothing but an opportunistic D-bag. I want to pop the guy. Routh must be a decent actor then to emote such hate. LOL.

    The guys consistently getting it done this season have been Chuck and Casey. You can see John teeming with pride for Chuck like a big brother. That’s certainly been one of the few positive elements of season three.

    TPTB hinted before the season began that “Sarah is like kryptonite for Chuck.” That premise has proven false. It’s pure BS.

    Sarah’s not the reason Chuck can’t flash. She’s the one who calms him down. Reassures him simply by talking to him. He flashes because of and for Sarah.

    And Ernie’s correct. The Bo scene was an excellent example. I agree with ED that Chuck stopped flashing after he decked Sarah in the bar and the problem spread when he overhead Sarah talking to Shaw about him.

    • atcdave says:

      Some really good points kg; except I’ve given up the con theories, I think Sarah is simply broken. (with my track record you’re probably correct!)
      The Sarah is kryptonite comments appear to be pure misdirection, she is the one person who can get the best out of him; man I hope they figure that out this Monday!

      • Paul says:

        Well considering Chuck can’t flahs now BECAUSE of what he saw Sarah do and say through that rifle scope, I’d say “kryptonite” is a very applicable term.

      • Jason says:

        One of TPTB said she is his kryptonite, but his spinach too. What I don’t want to see sarah in any way going to chuck for that reason. Sometimes I wonder if the big twist is going to be shaw telling sarah to ‘mark’ chuck so he can flash again?????????????

      • atcdave says:

        I agree that’s been a concern of mine all season, Chuck and Sarah getting together because he’s a better asset with her. It would work better if it came the other way, Chuck and Sarah quality time, and surprise, Chuck can flash again.

        And yes I know Sarah’s words damaged Chuck; but it was because of their growing estrangement, exactly the opposite of kryptonite, he needs to be close to Sarah to be at his best.

      • herder says:

        I’m not sure exactly where to put this but the kiss between Sarah and Shaw at the end, isn’t that the first real kiss of Sarah’s (except Bryce in flashback) that Chuck hasn’t seen. Bryce, Cole, Shaw (a couple of times) Chuck has always managed to see. Something new, not quite sure what to make of it.

      • Viridis says:


        On a related note, Sarah also never gave Hannah the “don’t hurt him” talk.

  10. BigCheese says:

    I read in twitter (chuckdotnet), 4 characters that are leaving Burbank, anyone have any idea what it is?

    • BigCheese says:

      Another one from Ausielo.

      Question: I kept reading about this Chuck guy from your spoilers, so I checked out Chuck and now I’m obsessed. Please give me some scoop. This really is all your fault after all! —Heather
      Ausiello: I’m more than happy to take the blame! On the scoop front, look for a major reveal — actually, make that three major reveals — about Casey in the March 15 episode. The following week, Chuck and Sarah go out on a stakate (that’s a mash-up of stakeout and date), and someone adjusts to a brand new way of life.

      • atcdave says:

        Those are some interesting spoilers. I’m actually starting to look forward to Chuck again. (yeah!)

      • JC says:

        Ok so after all this they go on a date? My head hurts.

      • Faith says:

        You know I was gonna type up…oh my the return to glory is goign to be so exciting. It’ll make us fall back in love with the characters again but I’m reminded of Mask.

        So no it’ll be a 10 minute whiplash. But this time around it’s a good thing haha.

      • John says:

        Looks like Schwartz is gonna pull out the 180 again.

      • atcdave says:

        Well, with all the good buzz we’re getting for 3.09 I’m hoping it will make more sense this time. Seriously, with Chuck and Sarah’s history, she should take one look at Chuck, one look at Shaw, and say “What was I thinking.” Of course, there needs to be some explanations and grief, but PTSD could cover a lot.

        I’m kind of kidding, I do hope they make it believable.

      • JC says:

        If they can explain it in the next two episodes and its not rushed. I’ll just forgive the relationship aspects of 3.07/3.08 as victims of an extremely short season.

      • atcdave says:

        I agree JC, and I will NEVER watch them again!

      • Miette says:

        OMG I love this stakate thing!
        Definitely looking forward to it!

      • JC says:


        I think you’ve fallen victim to what I call the “Blackhole of Suck”. This seems to occur only on Schwartz’s shows. Its when otherwise good episodes are ruined by poorly handled romantic drama.

      • atcdave says:

        If you’re talking about being down about the show since 3.05 you’re exactly right. I’m only cautiously optimistic now, and I sure won’t let myself get drawn into one of his shows again!

      • Mike B says:

        I think it will be discovered that Casey is the one that has a child and it will cause him to adjust to a brand new way of life. He will probably turn into Ward Cleaver.

      • Stef62 says:

        its looking likely that an ex of Caseys will appear with a teenage daughter along, which would tie in with the list of teaser spoilers of someone discovering they had a child.

        But I think there would be more comedy gold, (after the initial angst), if it was Anna who turned up with Wu-Grimes junior.

      • Mike B says:

        Not possible, we know Morgan uses condoms…lol

      • BigCheese says:

        Do you think it possible that the date with Chuck and Sarah is the scene of the promo where Shaw and Awesome cross over the window glass?

      • Jason says:

        I thought the spoiler for the skatdate was 3/15 episode which would make it 3.10 ep which shaw is not in, so the dinner / crashin thru the window would have to be 11/12/13

        anyone know when chuck saves shaw from the building, 11 or 12 or even 13?

      • BigCheese says:

        Chuck saving Shaw is 312 I think. Not sure.

      • Mi8tt8 says:

        To me the stakate is the week following Casey’s episode on March 15th (3.10), so 3.11.

      • Mi8tt8 says:

        The stakate episode could definitely be the “Sarah do you love me?” episode. What do you think guys?

      • John says:

        The DYLM scene is from the back 6 episodes.

      • bigcheesetm says:

        Sarah will say that already married Shaw … ^^

        Seriously, this time, if she say: “it’s complicated” it’s great!

      • bigcheesetm says:

        Yup it’s from back 6.

      • Miette says:

        OK, thank you guys.

      • Jason says:

        How do we know the d u love me is on the back 6, I do not recall magnus saying that, he just said it was not in ep 8, makes little sense that it is on the back 6, given the speculation that something fairly loving will happen in 3.13 / 3.14??????

      • BigCheese says:

        He said “back 6”, what it is I don’t know.

        But, promo is from 308-316.

    • Mike B says:

      The screeners only saw the next 4 episodes 8 to 12 so they wouldn’t know if the DYLM is in the back 6 or 13 and Magnus never said it was in the back 6.

      • atcdave says:

        Wouldn’t the “next four” have been 8-11? I have heard nothing concrete, but my guess would be episode 12 or 13. It looks like something they would have wanted to take care of before the end of the season; and with spoilers suggesting 13 will be very good for Chuck and Sarah, I’m thinking it may be something that takes place before the big climax.

      • John says:


        “The “do you love me” scene is in the back 6 and really doesn’t mean what you guys think it means.”

      • Mike B says:

        I’m sorry you’re right Dave if they only saw 8-11 how does he know what’s on the back six. Also Magnus said on a previous podcast that Sarah’s real name began with the letter “B”. so take it for what it’s worth.

      • atcdave says:

        I suppose there is the possibility we haven’t really heard her real name yet; I kind of think we did, but of course, no last name, so its not all out of the bag. Perhaps the only real last name she’ll ever have is Bartowski.
        The “it doesn’t mean what you think” quip is interesting. I’m not sure how that could be ambiguous, but they do try to trip us up with those previews, so who knows. I could see a “do you trust me” line as a set for placing a dinner order, “do you love me” is a little more specific. Unless its very closely edited; like “gee, do you remember when I actually had to ask, do you love me?” Like by the time we hear it its already an established fact.

        Just parsing words, we’ll find out soon.

  11. Chaaaucckk says:

    My guess is for some reason chuck is going to kill him and that is the climax of chucks transformation or a giant step in his regular guy to spy transition.

    • joe says:

      Greetings, Chaaaucckk. Saw your handle this morning. We seem to be attracting hockey fans lately (and yes, I R one).

      Because of the way these comments are threaded, I can’t tell for sure of whom it is you’re referring. But my guess is that, if Chuck fired his first kill-shot at Shaw, the cheer rising up across the nation would be just as great as it was when we first saw that motel scene flash up in the promos for The Colonel.

    • Jason says:

      joe, I’m wondering if you are going to put a thread up to try to get all these minds working on what the plot twist is going to be in 3.9?

      I’ve been following the spoilers close, I have no idea. I think I have heard from 3 different places that the direction 3.9 takes is unique, never been tried, writer’s put lots of thought into, major game changing event, etc

      I thought magnus even hinted that the SS direction in 3.9 is very different than we would guess based on 3.8.

      Would make sense that CS / SS and shaw’s plan would have to start to take shape in 3.9, we will start to get some idea what is going on this season, cause so far, it has really been 8 independant episodes of spy gossip boy.

      Not sure what that all means, any ideas?

      • joe says:

        Gossip Boy???? Cute! I LIKE clever!

        Jason, I think I’ll throw this suggestion into Ernie’s court (as if he struggles for something to write about! 🙂 ) He’s very good at peering into the looking glass and into the mists, darkly.

        Me, I tend to look back and sideways, saying “Hey wait! You might have missed this before!”

        But you just inspired me to tackle something. I’d like to try a post on the virtues (and lack thereof) of spoiling.

      • Ernie Davis says:

        Ugh. Thanks Joe. 😉 I may give it a try. I do have one idea that makes me laugh, but it is so outrageous I hesitate to post it. I guess I have to now. I don’t think it is plausible in any way whatsoever, but it is one of those things like Sarah being Shaw’s ex-wife that would be an absolute jump the shark moment but you could almost see a roomful of writers scratching their chins after laughing about it thinking hey…wait a minute

      • John says:

        There appears to be mixed reports about there being a previous connection between Shaw and Sarah. Magnus has no idea what Mel is referring to. I wonder who is right.

        Shaw and sarah they are supposed to connected by something in the past,that’s what mel at chucktv said anyway.Mel said she was shocked!

        I have been asked this question by other people before and I have no idea what Mel from ChuckTV was talking about.

      • JC says:

        I’ll one up you Ernie

        The French site teased about Sarah and flashing.

        Perhaps Eve Shaw was a deep cover assignment for Sarah. She was uploaded with the Eve Shaw personality. Thats why Shaw seems so obsessed with her. She looks like his wife but she’s not.

      • atcdave says:

        I’m thinking their connection has to be secondary. In First Class she was wondering who Shaw was, so unless they play the amnesia card, they’ve never met. And I’m pretty sure their romantic connection is severed in 3.09, so its nothing that would really pull them together (um, unless its the sibling thing, but that would hardly be original).

        So I’m thinking the most likely case is a common friend or mission. Somehow, that doesn’t sound epic or original either. I’m really looking forward to Monday again.

      • Anonymous says:

        Never tried before by any writers in the history of the human race? That seems exceedingly unlikely.

        Never tried before by any writers in this series? (And presumably excluding devices like alien abductions.) That shouldn’t be too hard. For example, maybe Sarah will realize that she really needs to have a long, private, and uninterrupted chat with Chuck. And she does it.

      • Stef62 says:

        How about the connection is the once mentioned, never to be mentioned again sister.

      • Chuckaddict says:

        Could we get a thread to try and analyze the main story of season 3? I think we’re also beating a dead horse with the C/S discussions. It is what it is and it looks like we all pretty much agree that it’s almost over. I’m beginning to think the writers have presented the PLI’s as a red herring, a distraction to keep viewers from anticipating the upcoming twist.

      • Ernie Davis says:

        We’re working on that very thing as we speak.

    • Marvin says:

      It would be an interesting completed circle…Chuck’s first meeting with The Evil One required him shooting Shaw. Nice symmetry if it was also his last meeting with Shaw as well. Give kind of a “dark side” meeting ala Yoda’s “remember your failure in the cave.” If we are looking at the hero’s journey, then Chuck facing off with Shaw provides an interesting, um, intersect.

  12. Jason says:

    I thought the discs might contain part or all of an intersect, shaw goes away to work on that project would be my guess to tie things up, although that could be true of whatever is on the disks. I’m thinking shaw might get the intersect at some point, maybe even come back in 3.11 with it, watching shaw the so called perfect spy deal with the enormous power of the intersect, might show others how difficult it has been for chuck…what is that line with great power comes great responsiblility?

    • sniderman says:

      Ooooh. That’s interesting. Shaw is very much like Bryce – the super-spy about to get The Intersect. So if Shaw is uploaded with an Intersect and he goes rogue, we could have Team B. chasing after a Dark Intersect. That would make for an interesting turn of events.

    • Mike B says:

      The same clips are on the italian website Over 4 minutes of clips, looks dare I sat “epic”.

    • JC says:

      Good to see the bromance is back.

      I’ve come to the conclusion that my enjoyment of the show this season is determined by the amount of time C/S are on screen together.

      • BigCheese says:

        Me too JC, which is very rare. Unfortunately.

        309 seems to be very fun. We’ll see what happens with CS.

      • Mike B says:

        It’s good to see Morgan embracing Chuck’s spy life as opposed to Devon who runs away from it.

        I also like Chuck’s resonse to Sarah when she tells him that he can talk to “us”. She is becoming totally clueless.

      • JC says:

        How many times can the writers kick Chuck, that “us” line was harsh. Hopefully Sarah gets a taste of it too.

      • JLR says:

        Yeah…”you can talk to us…” Sure…where Chuck is right now, he’s gonna talk to them. If Casey were at all receptive to it, he’s the only person I could see Chuck talking to. Guess Chuck gets to see what it’s like to be Sarah, w/ no one to talk too. I guess that’s the point of this part of the ep.

      • JC says:

        But one would have to assume that Sarah knows or thinks Chuck heard the whole conversation with Shaw.

        The “us” line just seems her digging the knife a little deeper.

      • Mike B says:

        Chuck looks straight at Sarah when he says ” I gave up everthing to become a spy” which makes her response even more of a dig.

      • Jen says:

        I feel the same way JC, i need the C&S to go up high!

        In the clip, IMHO… Sarah’s reponse of “you could talk to us” i don’t think is a jab at Chuck… she cares too much for him to do something like that. She wishes she could say “you can talk to me”, but she can’t cause “it’s complicated” and they have unresolved issues, so saying “us” is just a disguse for talk to “me”… she is actually concerned for him.

      • Mike B says:

        I’m sorry saying you can talk to “us” standing next to your new boyfriend? If that’s not a dig then she has turned into the clueless version of Chuck.

      • Jen says:

        They are both being clueless in that tneither know what to do about the other… the answer to that is so easy… sit down and talk! but i don’t think the “us” is a dig… it’s just cause she can’t say “me”. Saying “us” would just be outright mean, and her face looks more like concern to me.
        This doesnt’ mean, though, that it won’t bother Chuck to hear the “us”.

    • Viridis says:

      I’m amused at Shaw saying, “when Rafe tried to kill Sarah and me,” as if Chuck wasn’t there.

      Also, maybe (huge maybe) we can give Sarah the benefit of the doubt and hope that when she said “us” she meant “Casey and me,” and only realized how it sounded afterwards. Okay, I don’t really believe that.

      • Jen says:

        Yeah, i wanted to slap him when he said that…

        Amazing how we caa dislike a TV character so much! I can’t stand Shaw!

      • Waverly says:

        The obvious implication of “when Rafe tried to kill Sarah and me” is that he’s just thinking of himself and Sarah.

        But maybe it’s just pointing out Shaw’s dependence on Chuck to bail them out of tough situations. Probably an unintended implication at that moment, although appropriate given his wanting to point out that he thinks Chuck isn’t very useful unless he can flash.

      • JC says:

        Another point is that Chuck mentions the Hannah thing, so obviously Sarah knows they broke up.

    • ChuckNewbie8 says:

      Haven’t seen it yet, when I get the moment I will. But reading all your comments makes me wonder why pundits hail this as the tops of the tops. Any thoughts?

      Maybe it ends well? There seems to be an overwhelming tendency to perceive the episodes based on the last thing you’re given/shown. I mean Mask was great for the beginning but it soon went downhill and that’s what I tend to focus on.

      • atcdave says:

        Yeah, I can’t watch clips from work, but I’m not liking what I’m hearing; how is this going to be a great episode?

      • JC says:

        The other clips were great. Its just that the one seemed harsh, intended or not. My guess it sets up Sarah hitting rock bottom.

      • ChuckNewbie8 says:

        Good god, they haven’t hit rock bottom yet? What was with all that thing in Fake Name?

        I don’t know about this. I’ll channel my inner calm but seriously this doesn’t sound good. I’m wondering if they’re just hailing this as good for damage control now.

      • Viridis says:

        I guess it’s too late for the Spoiler tag?

        This particular clip occurs at the beginning of the episode, while Chuck is being benched, so there’s still lots of Chuck/Sarah angst to complain about.

        The other scenes are less controversial and don’t show anything directly pertinent to our desire to incessantly discuss the Chuck/Sarah drama.

      • JLR says:

        I don’t pay attention to what critics say. I’ve found that especially TV critics tend to “like” everything. I think they watch so much crap, anything that’s not downright atrocious is deemed “good.” I, on the other hand, watch VERY little TV, so I am hyper critical…which of course colors my comments regarding Chuck.

      • Jason says:

        dave I saw all the clips, all chuck stuff is going to be great, but shaw will still be attached to sarah’s hip, unless she tells him to get lost at the very end. I do think shaw is really going to annoy sarah the entire while, like he has annoyed me since episode 5 when he first ‘shawed’ up to curse my favorite show. I honestly think we will know exactly where sarah stands by 3.9’s end, not so sure CS will have any contact at all however. Would be a real bonus if they sneak in a reconcilliation talk in the last 3 minutes, but I would not count on it.

      • atcdave says:

        Jason, that kind of goes back to the entire seasons fundamental flaw; not nearly enough Chuck and Sarah time. I will be glad if we see any improvement in this episode, but I seriously do not look forward to another episode of Sarah and Shaw together. I’m wondering if this may end up being a Crown Vic sort of episode; mostly lousy with a decent ending. If so, I’ll be relieved when its done; but it will be another one I never care to re-watch.

        So they manage to keep us for the season, but kill the DVD sales.

      • Faith says:

        I can’t argue with you about critics. But I have a tendency to listen to specific ones that I usually agree with. When Mo Ryan was talking about Mask on the podcast I was like, gasp, she is saying exactly how I feel. The Fake Name one was a little different so I’m kind of off about it. But considering she’s putting this coming episode up there with Colonel, I have to take a pause and say, huh. Wow that good?

        But hearing you guys’ thoughts (don’t get me wrong, I appreciate it) makes me question what exactly will make this great. That said what we have here are clips and impressions, not the episode itself and the full picture is well the full picture.

      • Faith says:

        with that in mind I’m gonna take a couple of days away from the blog/boards. I know you guys will miss me 🙂

        See you on Monday (or sunday), depending on how long I can hold out. Maybe I’ll come back here with a different, rosier perspective lol.

      • Jen says:

        Dave… I I was ur IT Dept. I would allow u access to all Chuck clips!

        I’m IT 😀

      • atcdave says:

        I appreciate that Jen; but my IT is US government. They actually don’t give us any access at all, but I’ve got mobile broadband for text. It would just cost too much for video.

        I can’t say I blame them, I waste virtually all my break time here!

  13. metajoke says:

    Sorry, folks, you can argue nuance and meaning and all that stuff until you’re blue in the electrons. But it’s not Chuck and/or Sarah kicking each other.

    It’s TPTB laughing at all of us because we’re supposed to accept and continue to accept that these two people NEVER talked. Not at the end of Colonel, not on the train platform, not at the end of Three Words, not at the end of Awesome. Not after they almost all died at the hands of Rafe. Not ever. It’s STUPID STUPID STUPID.

    And you only encourage them by trying to speculate about the “meaning” of the words. In your heart you KNOW this stuff is MEANINGLESS because not even in the warped world of TV would this stuff happen like this.

    My suggestion? Stop commenting. Stop dignifying idiotic and insulting script writing. That is what I am doing, effective immediately.

    • atcdave says:

      I do understand your point, but I am hooked. I will stick it out to the end; and never watch another show by this team.

      • Jason says:

        dave I think this will make the rewatch file for you, I think yvonne is going to be great in this episode, sarah not sam.

        and everything else is going to be awesome.

        plus, something that we have not seen is going to emerge I would guess, a major twist, since it is near unanimous how good this episode was / is, my guess is the ‘twist’ is finally going to fall on the good side of the ledger?

      • metajoke says:

        You missed my point. I didn’t say stop watching. What I said was stop COMMENTING. If you treat every word as if it has meaning and look at every nuance as received wisdom, you only justify TPTB crappy screenwriting and manipulative storylines.

        The way to fight back is to stop taking it seriously. And the way to stop taking it seriously is stop having a Talmudic discussion of every line, especially as it affects Chuck and Sarah…

      • atcdave says:

        I got that metajoke. Currently I’m more hooked on the blog/community than I am on the show! But that’s my response to the manipulative and cynical writing, I won’t let them do this to me again.

    • JLR says:

      I totally feel what you’re saying. I DO NOT mean to offend anyone, but some of the speculations WRT “ohhh, Sarah’s glance means this…; her lower lip protruded so it means this”; all of that stuff, in the end, basically lets the writers off the hook. When C/S don’t talk, it means the story is anything an individual interpretation wants it to mean. And that’s fine as far as individual; viewers go, but it doesn’t change my stance that it’s WEAK; it’s a cop-out.

      I feel badly that Liz has left, but she was kinda the victim of her own prognosticating. She came up w/ a “fan friendly” (according to some) resolution that didn’t materialize; now she’s gone b/c the absence of that resolution meant, to her, TPTB have failed us, and worse. I’m all for speculating, and get that it’s fun, but I think the inherent danger is that it sows the seeds of expectation that aren’t going to be met.

      • AngelTwo says:

        I disagree with you about Liz. I think she followed the “nothing in the spy world is real” meme the writers put down in the season premiere and constructed a logical path based on that.

        I guess, like a lot of us, she was surprised when TPTB turned the characters into cartoons, violated their own writing standards and decided that some things WERE real in the spy world. You could have knocked me over with a feather when Hannah turned out not to be a spy. That’s just stupid, frankly.

        I never particularly found Liz’s analysis fan friendly. Just logical. I think she walked away because she felt the screenwriting was substandard and the plots lacking in logic.

        And so it is. I wish I had her strength of character to walk away. But like metajoke, I don’t comment much anymore because it DOES encourage TPTB to think they are “right” because they have us hanging on every look or word. Meanwhile, while they reserve the right to themselves to make NOTHING logical and have the two stars NOT talk after almost three years of proximity.

      • JC says:

        As much as I want Chuck to bring up not trusting Sarah. Or Sarah chasing Chuck. Sarah taking equal blame for the situation I know it probably won’t happen. The whole Sarah/ Shaw conversation, name reveal will probably be forgotten about.

        I have no expectations for this season now. I just really enjoy speculating about the show probably more than the show itself right now. So I’m waiting for 3.13 to see if I’ll keep tuning in.

      • JLR says:

        Yeah, my comment about why Liz left was based purely on assumptions I my bad. And I don’t disagree w/ the take TPTB have given us mostly fail this season. My major point was simply the non-communication thing gives the writers a cop-out. They know the fans are gonna fill in the blanks.

  14. Jason says:

    total guess, end of 3.9, 3 minutes to go, sarah finds chuck, says:

    ‘chuck, we gotta talk’
    chuck answers, ‘you want to talk, go find your boyfriend’
    sarah grabs chuck, lays a kiss on him like never before
    sarah then says: ‘we gotta talk about that too, but there is something much more important going on …….’

    remember when TPTB said something far more important is going on than CS’s relationship

    what if while at the resort with shaw, ellie, awesome in 3.9, sarah finds out what shaw is up to, and it involves ellie?

    • JLR says:

      So a variation on the con theory? And I don’t see Chuck being that openly hostile towards Sarah…I just don’t, as much as I’d like ot see it just once to see how it plays.

      • JC says:

        That does seem to another theme on this show. Chuck is doormat and maybe gets to vent his anger with one sentence a season.

  15. Lucian says:

    I’m curious about one thing. I am of the opinion that this season is a significant step down from seasons 1 and 2, in the quality of the storytelling, how the characters have not developed, the chronic angst based on the continued miscommunication/no adult conversation, and the additional round of pli’s have turned it into a melodrama / soap opera. That said, I still am curious how things turn out, so I keep watching.

    My question is, how many of you would consider this season on par or better than the first two?

    • Merve says:

      I consider season 3 to be worse than season 2, better than season 1, and much better than most of what’s on television.

    • BigCheese says:

      Till now season 3 is the worse for me.

      2, 1, dark hole, 3.

    • Viridis says:

      Since we haven’t seen the “payoff”, none of us can state definitively that the past few episodes, lacking that good Chuck/Sarah interaction we cherish, are worth it. We can only hope that season 3 can end up on par with the first two.

      However, if season 3 was the first season of its own show, and we don’t have 35 episodes of chemistry between the Nerd Herder turned spy and his CIA handler, I’d posit that season 3 isn’t bad. In that comparison, the Nerd Herder is at least semi-competent in season 3, whereas he freaks out, disobeys orders, and mumbles Intersect secrets all the time in season 1.

      Wait, what if that’s it? Sarah fell in love with the bumbling idiot of season 1. Since Chuck is now a competent spy, Sarah is now falling in love with the closest thing to a bumbling idiot: the creepy, wooden, ineffective spy Shaw! She wants a normal life, right?

      In 2.16, she chose the guy who sprained his ankle on a windowsill over the guy who took a bullet for her.

      In 2.22, she chose the Intersect-less guy over the superspy that will gain the Intersect 2.0

      In 3.07, she picked the guy who got himself locked in a vault, got himself IDed by a Ring agent, and drove her around over the guy who was a better catcher and got the antidote by bluffing a Ring agent.

      In 3.08 she also prefers the guy who can smack a chained prisoner (that he didn’t even chain himself) and beat up a Nerd Herder over the guy who went undercover as an assassin inside the Mafia.

      Oh dear, does this mean she’ll go after Morgan next? Although, the 3.09 twist could be that even though Chuck can flash, he must pretend that he’s incompetent in order to win the girl.

      • Paul says:

        Vindis, Chuck’s spy ability has nothing to do with Sarah’s attraction to him. What drew him to her was his personality and “realness”. Sarah has always wanted a normal life (which has been alluded to in all 3 seasons). Chuck was/is her gateway to that. Shaw is a rebound. He is simply available…and if you haven’t noticed, Sarah has some indications of projecting her love of Chuck onto Sarah.

      • JLR says:

        Uh, Paul, I think Viridis is being a bit facetious… And I see the point of it.

      • weaselone says:

        Nah, Morgan’s been looking a little too competent lately to be attractive to Sarah. Successful assistant manager at the Buy More and soon to be assistant to Chuck in delivering a generous helping of whoop-ass to some Ring agents.

        Maybe she could hook up with Lester now that his bid to rule the Buy More appears to have once more gone up in smoke. Of course, Jeffster seems to be taking off which could prove problematic. Nope, I would say stick with Shaw. She appears to have a guaranteed loser there.

    • atcdave says:

      I’ll weigh in. I’m sure it surprises no one I think this season has been weak. I fell in love with this show in S1, S2 only got better. S3 has been an EPIC, disappointment. Eliminating the best of the humor, re-using plot devices I hated the first time around, and reducing screen time for Chuck and Sarah together. As Vindis observed, we really don’t know what the payoff will be. Its possible, in the end, it will be all worthwile and easy to forget my grievences; but I suspect I’ll never want to rewatch about half the season.

      • BigCheese says:

        You said everything atcdave.

        I do not know about future episodes, but season 3 is likely to be an epic failure. At least in my opinion.

        But of course, as I like to emphasize, I’m a crazy/insane shipper.

    • JC says:

      Season 2 is still tops in my book, those last seven episodes are unbelievable.

      Seasons 1 and 3 are somewhat equal in my book. Chuck vs The Alma Mater is my favorite episode of all time. Season 3 is probably better but some really poorly handled scenes and characters have soured me.

    • JLR says:

      Season 2 is easily the best of the 4 seasons for me, and it won’t matter how “epic” the rest of season 3 may turn out to be, it won’t change my ranking. I like that Chuck is growing as a spy season 3, but the characters (other than Casey & Morgan) I find to be unlikable, so that pretty much damages the season for me. I’d say 2>>>>>>>1>>3.

      I was even annoyed during season 2 (hey, I’m tough person to please when it comes to TV..I watch very little of it b/c of that fact), mostly at whiny Chuck, BUT, at least I left most of the episodes feeling like I was entertained & not manipulated purely for the sake of some grand “reveal” yet to be uncovered. At bottom, season 3 is a fail because I feel like we spend most of our viewing time looking at setups; so much time has been wasted on “payoffs” that I question will really be all that believable/entertaining/”epic”. TPTB have entirely lost my faith.

      • atcdave says:

        Yeah, well put JLR (except I think I liked S1 a lot more than you!). Whiney Chuck did occasionally annoy me, but as you said, I usually had a good time in the end. Episodes 2.16 – 2.21 remain the best television I’ve ever seen. But this season I’m just waiting for the end. That’s not good entertainment.

  16. Viridis says:

    I was being partially facetious and taking the opportunity to bash Shaw. Chuck the 2nd yr rookie versus Cole the superspy (who killed 12 men in his escape)? That’s no contest. But Shaw the 5-year operative against the Ring vs. Chuck the new recipient of Intersect 2.0? Shouldn’t Shaw be slightly more concerned with the Ring rather than preying on emotionally wounded and confused blonde CIA agents?

    Nonetheless, I thought it was clear that Chuck’s gaining of spying prowess is what’s been distancing Sarah all season long? She currently no longer sees Chuck as that gateway to normalcy, since he no longer shows his personality and “realness”. Hopefully Sarah will adjust her goals upward to combine spying and normal life, just like Chuck will adjust himself down.

    Also, you meant Shaw as your last word?

  17. Stef62 says:

    I’d floated the idea that there was a follow up line to the DYLM line that had been edited out of the promo, that went along the lines of ‘or are you just playing me’.

    From the chatter about the line as seen, not meaning what it seemed to mean. Makes me think that she is playing him as a mark.

    I suppose you’ve just got to hope that its being done reluctantly by her.

    • atcdave says:

      Just because she’s ordered to get close to Chuck doesn’t mean she doesn’t like the assignment. We’ve seen in the past she’s clearly willing to go against orders for Chuck; if she can get orders to do what she wants to do, even better.

      • Stef62 says:

        Hopefully thats true, but it just smacks of JS saying, okay we’ll give you what you want, but twisting it into something a little nasty

      • atcdave says:

        Yeah, I know; it could be pretty aweful. But the thing is, this show used to be fun. I really think they will try to get back to that by the end of the season. If I didn’t think that, I’d be gone already.

      • JLR says:

        They main concern(s) would be (IF this actually played out): does Chuck find out he’s an “assignment” again, and how does he react to that?

      • weaselone says:

        That’s all fine and good, but if she doesn’t initially come forward and tell Chuck she’s been ordered to get close and leaves it for Chuck to figure out then she’s a particularly nasty and deceitful variety of flake.

      • JC says:

        Honestly I can’t see how anybody wouldn’t be enraged.

      • Jason says:

        i’ve been as negative about CS and TPTB as anyone posting, honestly I’ve been pi$$ed all season, since 3.1 & the last 20 sec of 3.8 left me dumfounded, as well as 3.8 shaw pummeling chuck with no sarah help.

        BUT, I honestly think 3.9 thru 3.13 are all going to be repeat watching episodes for even the most radical of CS shippers (which might be me)

        not sure how it will get done, but it may get done even better than we might have guessed.

        The point of make or break for TPTB is rapidly approaching in shipper’s eyes. If 13 was going to be the final, I just cannot imagine this dance going on much longer – plus most those who have seen things more or less have told us so.

      • atcdave says:

        I agree Jason, I think things will start getting better fast. I could still see the assignment issue coming up; but I think we’ll know pretty clearly where Sarah stands. Like she’s told to get close to Chuck again, and we see she can’t keep the smile off her face. The DYLM question (“or am I just an assignment”) could come up later, and need clarifying in true Sarah fashion, because she never speaks up and assumes her actions say enough; but then I think Sarah’s answer will be pretty clear.

      • herder says:

        Dave, I think her answer will be clear for a change. Sarah felt she lost Chuck in Pink Slip because he chose the spy life over her, his action. In Fake Name she felt she had lost him because he had chosen Hannah, both his choices which she accepted.

        I think in the Beard for the first time she faces that she may have lost him because of her choices and she will try to fix that. A DYLM line related to him being a mark will demand a clear answer or she will lose him permanantly because of her choice. I say permanently because I think she is aware that he questions a lot of their past because he was her mark originally.

        Losing him because of her choice strikes to the core of who she is which is what she is trying to figure out this year.

      • atcdave says:

        Well put herder. I’m not at all sure of the timing of things; but as I said elsewhere, I’m currently thinking we will know clearly by the end of 3.09 she wants to be with Chuck. Chuck may not get a clue for a while yet, the DYLM moment coming when he finally needs to know (maybe 3.12?). I think we will finally all like her answer; I just hope its better than “yes”. Something like “I’ve loved you since the ballerina” or “I wanted to run away with you because I love you and I need to be with you” being more apt.

      • Waverly says:

        Sarah: “I love you because Shaw said I should.”

      • atcdave says:

        Yeah Waverly, I think that would end the show for most of us!

  18. Jason says:

    has it become this simple, sans twists:
    3-10 CS save casey
    3-11 C final exam
    3-12 C save shaw
    3-13 C bring down the ring, save sarah or ellie maybe?

    if so, you can sort of see how shaw was extended
    he is not in 3-10
    in 3-11 he gives chuck the final exam with sarah, no rewrite
    in 3-12 he gets kidnapped rather than someone else (say sarah, ellie or awesome for argument sakes) – min rewrite
    in 3-13 he maybe got casey’s save the day stuff or he is the head of the ring (i.e. the main villain?) – lots of rewrite, but they also had time?

    if so – from a shipper POV, shaw is pretty much done in 3.9, will be interesting to see???? If sham is making out at the end of 3.9 – wonder how many more fans will become indifferent?

    • atcdave says:

      I thought we’d seen a spoiler about Sarah and Shaw both being kidnapped in 3.12? So maybe they just added Shaw to the equation. But I do think Shaw will no longer be a romantic factor after 3.09; except maybe in Chuck’s nightmares.

    • atcdave says:

      I thought we’d seen a spoiler saying both Shaw and Sarah are kidnapped in 3.12? So that would be an easy change to have made. I do believe Shaw will be done as a romantic rival in 3.09; Chuck may not be sure for a while yet, but we will be.

    • Jason says:

      dave – that spoiler where sarah is running to the builing that gets blown up, I am pretty sure shaw and chuck are in it, with chuck running out carrying shaw moments later – it would be lame if CS are still on the outs up until that point, and sarah mauls chuck while shaw is sitting on the ground somewhat shaken up, by both the ordeal and by sarah’s actions, but heck, that would mean 4 more sham in doubt episodes (9,10,11,12) – I will have trouble staying interested if that is the case – maybe we will all know for sure, but shaw won’t until then?????

  19. herder says:

    One thing I have been picturing in my mind is that at the end of the Beard and the team will have to face some questions about why they left Chuck alone at the Buy More. Remember the reason that we have been told repeatedly for Sarah not being able to get together with Chuck is that it is her job (and presumably Casey’s) to protect him. Shouldn’t that come with responsibilities as well as a plot device.

    Presumably they were ordered out by Shaw to come with him, I can’t see both Sarah and Casey leaving Chuck alone at the Buy More, come on Casey works at the store for the precise reason of being there to protect Chuck. Maybe in the meeting Shaw subtley shifts the blame to Casey, a black mark against him (we are speculating that at some time Casey gets fired or released) and the start of the overt antagonism between Casey and Shaw.

    I can see an angry General Beckman looking for a scapegoat and Shaw serving up Casey.

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