Same Tune?

A Guest Post by Faith

As you all know I took a couple of days off the blog on purpose. What you didn’t know was I took the days off on Liz James’ recommendation. We’ve been talking via email on our differing but equally passionate views on the downward spiral of Chuck (the show, not the character) and I took a couple of days off to think about what she said and re-watch the episodes of S3. I have to say I didn’t want to re-watch Chuck. For me the same obsession (obviously not related to the blog) I had in s2 where I had this compulsion to re-watch the episode over and over and over again because they were so fun…is gone. Chuck is heavy now, it’s heavy for me and it’s draining. Re-watching them is draining so I haven’t. It’s not that it’s no longer enjoyable it’s just it’s different and far too heavy for those of my ilk to revisit it time and again like I have in the past. Anyways onto the epis…

When I first saw Pink Slip, I hated it. I thought, thank god this came right before (I mean RIGHT BEFORE) 3 words. As we know 3 words is an Ali Adler written epi and it didn’t disappoint. The nuances of expression, the emotionalism of the dialogue, the niceness of Carina…all awesome so it made up for all the things I thought were wrong with Pink Slip. Well no longer. Pink Slip is awesome! It was a great piece of writing and let me expound on why. It’s very hard to translate growth in writing without jumping the shark and making the readers’ heads snap. They did it brilliantly. It was emotional, it was just right in its timing and it felt real. It didn’t seem out of base for Sarah to ask him to run away with her, and it didn’t feel off that she was devastated and thereby cold afterwards. These things make sense. It makes sense because they love each other and when you love you hurt. Sometimes the worst ever pain you can imagine. That’s what Pink Slip was, a very jarring and painful episode. Incidentally that’s what I meant by the 3 downs I listed earlier. It also perfectly illustrated how far off the map Chuck still is. He doesn’t see himself a hero, he still sees himself a loser and Sarah said it best, “when you went to Prague, I worked with the best spies in the world and you know what? None of them can do the things you can do.” But Chuck is well Chuck, he doesn’t listen and he doesn’t believe. So something had to give.

3 words: already listed accolades. Angel de la Muerte and Captain Awesome: Chuck’s really hitting its stride (the show not the character). The dance, the music, the relationships…ATCDave once posted that what sets Chuck apart is that this show is relationship driven. Well it is. We identify with these characters so much because we have gotten to know them. We know how they think, why they think those thoughts, the reasons for their actions and most of all we’ve gotten to know their hearts. These characters matter. Angel de la Muerte and Captain Awesome exhibited all of that. We learned just how much the spy game can mess up with those relationships and just how the spy game and those relationships are intertwined.

First Class: the beginning of the end. I’m not gonna lie, my vision was clouded by my immense dislike of Shaw and what I know will come. I tried to the best of my ability to remain open minded and see it for what it was and maybe see what some like OD (in particular) or others see and I’m sorry I don’t see it. I came to the realization that it’s not the writers’ fault, it’s mine. I was the idiot. I’m the one that read things in the episodes and listened to messages in the songs that were not there and I only have myself to blame for the blind side roadhouse kick that Mask et al brings. Because the fact of the matter is, Chuck and Sarah are just friends. They said it and they meant it. When Sarah said at the end of Pink Slip, “you’re a spy now Chuck, you have to keep your feelings to yourself,” she meant it. When they said “friends” at OO, they meant it. I was the idiot that believed the undercurrents of emotion and love and longing still burned under the surface. I’m an idiot. Chuck had every right to move on to Hannah. Sarah has every right to be with and reveal things to Shaw. I’m the idiot for not seeing this coming. And I’m the idiot who continues to hope for the sunshine amongst these gloomy rainfalls of doom. Just like I believed they’ve hit rock bottom, they haven’t. Chuck and Sarah are no longer Chuck and Sarah. What was was, and what is is. They have and are going through something completely dark and you don’t go through something like this without losing something. I’d have hoped they’d have lost their innocence but not their soul/their heart. But really it’s not a transformation, it’s not a birth of a hero if you don’t lose it all. So girl, check, family, check (all but), job, check. First Class was the beginning of the end, this is the middle. I’m an idiot for believing and an idiot for continuing to have faith.


About Faith

Eternally faith-ful at least as it relates to my beloved Los Angeles Lakers. Yes that's where the username comes from. Other than that self-professed Chuckaholic, Laker blogger and part time internet addict. Ok, full time.
This entry was posted in Angst, Inside Chuck, Inside Sarah, Observations, Season 3. Bookmark the permalink.

99 Responses to Same Tune?

  1. atcdave says:

    I’m not sure what to say Faith, very sad post. I don’t think any of us fans are idiots for believing the first two seasons meant something. I believe Pink Slip was a “jumping the shark” moment because the whole tragedy is based on the idea Sarah would ask Chuck to do something that she knows would destroy him. After all his talks about what Ellie and Morgan mean to him, and shaming his dad into coming out of hiding because he needs to be there for his family. After spending who knows how much money for a wedding and reception in zero time for his sister; doing something an “ordinary guy” wouldn’t do. When going off the grid for one night Chuck blows it because he can’t help but call his sister. Now we’re supposed to believe Sarah Walker, super-spy who knows and loves Chuck; thinks she can just take him away from everyone and disappear for the rest of their lives?

    That is jumping the shark. It is having characters behave in outrageous OOC ways for shock value. That is season 3. The writers have shown zero respect for their fans, their characters, and their setting; by delivering a product most of us won’t like, and having their characters behave in stupid selfish ways.

    Faith, that does not make YOU, an idiot.

  2. Faith says:

    Thanks Dave, but really I am. Because I bought the con theory. I believed in the con theory so much so that I would have been willing to stake 75 costa gravas pesos on it but I was wrong. Because the fact of the matter is, everything is at face value. What we believed before and what were unalienable truths are now lies. They’re lies because these aren’t Chuck and Sarah; these are Charles and Sam.

    And now I have egg on my face. I put these attributes to the writers that they don’t have and I only have myself to blame when it comes down to it.

    • atcdave says:

      You know I posted articles about the con; many of us were conned by the non-con. It only makes sense; it is far more consistant with the characters we have known for two years. Seriously, Chuck’s a good decent guy, and Sarah always believes that. I don’t recognize the characters currently on screen. But I have a vague hope that someday new episodes of a show I used to like called Chuck may actually air. Maybe sometime in April. Or maybe its just no longer in production, so sad.

  3. Big Kev says:

    You’re no more an idiot than the ret of us who bought the con theory then – because the alternative is to accept the trashing of the characters that’s been done in Mask and Fake Name. And this comes from someone who accepted the premise of Chuck and Sarah being apart for most of S3, and who was reasonably happy with the Season up to Nacho Sampler.
    I think the essential problem is simply stated. If you are going to have your characters going through a dark night of the soul, then the standard of the writing and the set ups behind those emotional reveals has to be higher, and tighter, than ever. The rest of Chuck may be cartoonish, but the writers are asking me to accept that the emotions are real. Like Old Darth, I’m happy with that – but in 7 and 8, the set ups have been so poor that one is left thinking, as Liz did, that the show makes no sense.
    I didn’t mind Fake Name on first viewing – but on repeated viewings, and with help from comments on this blog – it gets worse and worse. From the basic point that Shaw would already know Sarah’s real name, to Sarah standing there while Shaw beats up Chuck, to her still being attracted to a man who displays serious violent streaks twice in one episode, to the ridiculous cut after the shooting of Rafe for just one more example of not talking……there is so much that just doesn’t make any sense. As for Sarah, right now, I’m with Ernie. Why would Chuck want to be anywhere near Sarah Walker? Shaw’s welcome to her.
    They say they’re friends – but clearly they don’t mean it – and for me, the real test of Season 3 is going to be how TPTB put Chuck and Sarah back together again.
    I would rather they did it slowly, with maybe a commitment to a real relationship in 3.13 and the further exploration of that relationship in the back 6. Anything quicker than that would just feel like a rabbit moment, which would feel as nonsensical as the last 2 episodes.
    I’ve got pretty disillusioned too over the last week rewatching Fake Name – but from all accounts the last 5 episodes of the season are seriously good. They need to be. Making the vast majority of your fanbase seriously dislike your main characters is a high stakes game. We’re about to see what these writers are made of.

    • Faith says:

      That we are.

      I made a reference in the post about “this is what I meant when I said down” well it kind of got lost in the days past but what I meant was if you look at the season as a chart (a la Kevin_Calvin) it’s been down, down, down (Tragic Prague Scene), plateau, down, down (Fake name), down (Beard?), up, up, up.

      Here’s my question to you guys though, do you think Sarah has hit rock bottom? I think we can all pretty much agree that Chuck’s hit it.

      • Big Kev says:

        I think it depends on how Shaw plays out. If he turns out to be some sort of flawed mentor, then I suspect she will come to see that getting involved with him was just a signpost on the way back to Chuck and to herself. I’m coming to think that’s how it will be.
        If his motives turn out to be evil, or revenge driven, and he is merely using Sarah for those ends, or even worse, if he tries to use Sarah as a mark to control Chuck, then she’s got a bit further down to go.
        You know what though? In for a penny, in for a pound with the angst thing. If I’m going to have to cop the angst until at least 3.12, I wouldn’t mind seeing them play out the scenario where she has to reconnect with Chuck under orders. There would be some serious dramatic potential in that if – and it’s a big if – they handled it right.

      • JC says:

        I would like to think she hasn’t but who knows.

        They might be setting it up with Chuck having someone other than her to talk about things. That was the last bit of connection they had, even if hasn’t been shown this season. So with that gone, they have no reason to be around each other except on the job.

      • Emily says:

        Yes, but why should we have to go down, down, down before we go up, up, up? This show is literally a rollercoaster. And I don’t like rollercoasters. They make me feel sick. And the relief of going up again doesn’t help, because you know that pretty soon, you are just going to go down again, before the shock and the sick feeling has worn off the first time.

      • weaselone says:

        I agree that Chuck has hit rock bottom from the perspective of his relationships with his family as well as the abandonment of his previous morals. I think we see him begin to rebound in both of those areas at the end of “First Name”, although not without the final inevitable and well deserved shoving of his nose in it by Hannah at the end of the episode. The bottom of his professional (spy) life comes at the beginning of the Beard, but as a consequence of turning the corner. His friendships likely also strike bottom this episode. I expect we’ll see a little more conflict between Chuck and Morgan over his recent actions before they reconcile and it may take even longer for Chuck and Awesome to reconcile, although if the speculation that Shaw offers Ellie her dream job is correct, even that could occur this episode as the seeds for Team Chuck (Chuck, Morgan, Casey, and Awesome) to take on Shaw would have been planted.

        As for Sarah, I don’t think she’s hit bottom yet. Maybe on the level where she’s abandoned and been untrue to herself and pushed away/been isolated from the people in her life that truly care about her, but she’s actually at the point where this false life is starting to deliver positive short term benefits. She has a new guy, she’s able to share her emotions, and she’s being physically gratified. Something traumatic has to occur to knock her out of this new normal and it’s unlikely to be pleasant.

        Off topic, but I still find it ridiculous that Shaw benches Chuck. Flashing or not, Chuck’s still the teams second most consistent performer behind Casey. He should be on the mission for technical and tactical support even if he’s relegated to keeping the van seats warm. If anyone should be benched, it’s Sarah and Shaw. Shaw’s been less than stellar on mission the entire season and Sarah’s an emotional train wreck.

        Plus, shouldn’t someone be around to guard the nation’s most important intelligence asset, even if it is temporarily on the glitch? When Chuck originally had an entire government database uploaded into his head he always had at least one handler in close proximity. One would think that would remain a requirement, particularly if he’s in a position where he loses the ability to defend himself.

      • herder says:

        Maybe bottom for Sarah is in this episode in not objecting to things that she knows she should. The first, leaving Chuck alone and unprotected while she goes out on a mission with Shaw. Perhaps the general has something to say about this.

        Second in not objecting to whatever it is that Shaw is doing with Ellie, leaving aside the whole Chuck thing, Ellie is her friend, she was a bridesmate at Ellie’s wedding, Ellie is a civilian. Sarah should know that Ellie must be kept out of these things, failing to object would be a moral failing.

        Third, with Morgan in the know, maybe he will say something to her about what she has done to Chuck. Maybe something is unearthed by the Ring Agents while they occupy the Castle and they taunt Chuck with it.

      • amyabn says:

        First, let me say that I’m sorry I haven’t had time for posting over the last week and a half.
        Second, Faith, you are not an idiot. We all wanted to believe in the con because it was the only scenarios presented (and kudos to Liz!) for any of what we’ve seen to not be OOC.
        Third, to reply to Weasleone, the whole “you can’t be a spy because you can’t flash” is pure contrived BS. Chuck has been training with Sarah and Casey for three years, whether the lessons were implicit or not. Casey, Sarah, and Shaw are all spies without intersects. The premise is garbage. Chuck has consistently proven himself this season with HIS skills.
        It bothers me that everyone (Chuck, Sarah, Casey) are all buying into Shaw’s version of how to train/convert Chuck into a spy. At what point will they see Shaw’s plan for what it is: rubbish. Chuck works best as part of Team Bartowski. Shaw’s plan continues to isolate Chuck, and it is failing. At what point will someone man (or woman) up and realize what is best for Chuck?
        I think Morgan will be a huge element in turning things around. He discovers Chuck/Sarah/Casey’s secret and can be that counselor that he tried to be to Awesome and Ellie for Chuck and Sarah. Morgan can provide that third party advice for Sarah instead of her turning to Shaw (hold on, ok, gag reflex returning to normal). He could be just what the doctor (I really mean me) ordered.

      • Merve says:

        I’ve been holding back for a while now, but I’m in a foul mood today and I don’t feel like mincing words. I’m seeing a lot of talk about the con theory and I feel as if I should weigh in.

        I didn’t buy the con theory (beyond Shaw potentially playing Sarah, which has yet to be refuted) and I’m incredibly glad that it didn’t turn out to be true. The con scenario would have been the epitome of dishonest storytelling. Aside from a few facial expressions that could be interpreted in other ways, there was no evidence on screen that there was any sort of con or collaboration going on between Chuck and Sarah. Twists work well when they’re surprising, but they shouldn’t come out of nowhere. It’s the difference between “HOLY CRAP!” and “WTF?” “HOLY CRAP!” is a good reaction. “WTF?” is a bad one. The con scenario would have been a huge “WTF?” for me.

        I would also argue that the con scenario would have been massively out of character for both Chuck and Sarah, but especially Chuck. Chuck may be growing as a spy and may be less uncomfortable with being dishonest, but I have a very hard time believing that he would conspire with Sarah to con Shaw, his superior, or that he would attempt to seduce someone whom he believes to be innocent, i.e. Hannah. I also don’t believe that Sarah would participate in such a con. As someone who is growing tired of the spy life and its associated dishonesty and deceit, why would she participate in a plan that relies on the very things that are starting to make her uncomfortable?

        Furthermore, the idea that Chuck and Sarah would have been collaborating on such a plan is absolutely ludicrous to me. There was barely any evidence to suggest that Sarah and Chuck had rebuilt their trust to the level that they would be comfortable conspiring together. Using a con scenario so soon in the story would have completely cheapened everything that had happened between them in “Pink Slip.” It seems pretty clear to me that by “Nacho Sampler,” they’re only beginning to reconnect on a friendship level. (Their brief conversation in Castle that was interrupted by Casey was one of the few “friend” conversations that they’d had that season up until that point.) So to shock the audience with a reveal of how much their trust had grown off-screen wouldn’t just be unbelievable or dishonest, it would be absolutely offensive to my intelligence.

        So, while I think that the con theory was clever, for me, that was its sole merit: cleverness. Beyond that, it didn’t make sense character-wise or plot-wise. I know that I sound like an apologist for TPTB, but I’ve had my gripes with this season. I’m a little annoyed with where they’ve taken Sarah’s character since “Mask.” But had TPTB used a con scenario, I would have been much more annoyed.

        I apologize for being so harsh. Like I said, I’ve been holding back. I should probably let my annoyance go in little bursts. 🙂

  4. JLR says:

    Faith, neither you nor Liz should feel stupid. I never believed the con theory (still don’t), but I at least appreciated what Liz & you were trying to convey. I actually tried to warn people to not invest themselves too much in the theory since I didn’t believe it to be true; I didn’t want to see massive disappointment afterward. I still feel bad Liz left; I enjoyed reading her ideas, even if I didn’t agree with all of them. She at least came up w/ ways to get out of this quagmire w/ the possibility I’d still care & like C/S as characters.

  5. Jason says:

    faith – liz’s last major writing here was some beautiful work on quoting many scenes from S1/S2 between CS. Seemingly within minutes of her releasing that, Magnus came out and warned us 3.8 was going to be far darker than the last 10 minutes of 3.7 for shippers. I felt really bad for liz, as what she did was both inspired and lots of work, and it became obvious it was going down the drain, just like the CS relationship. If you would mention to her I appreciate how much effort she put into that last writing.

    For shippers, the next 3 1/2 espisodes will probably play out a little like S1/S2, except it is going to be really stupid. I think we will get sarah acting normal around chuck, but very sam-like around shaw & I think chuck will also act very inconsistent around shaw, shaw – sarah, and sarah alone. Based on what I am reading, I think sham will exist until late into 3.12, although I think even sadistic JS will probably not have sham making out / fade to sex any longer. For example, I think sarah will be just like S1/S2 in episode 10, while chuck will act like chuck, but treat sarah like charles would. AS I said, it is going to be very stupid and very detracting from the show, just as it has been all season.

    I know old darth so far has been spouting partly line love for this season based on his posts, but if you read sepinwall’s review of 3.8, I think he more or less has now gone on record that shaw 3.8 pushed the WT/WT too far. That is saying something, because he has essentially been a JS shill all season long.

    JS has heard the message loud and clear, he may be publically calling out crazy shippers, but privately, sepinwall & mo ryan’s opinions do carry weight.

    Odd thing about all this, the S3 show still is not that bad, as I said, with about now 60 seconds of editing, the season really would be ok – but as many of you have said, wow – what it could have been if done well????

  6. herder says:

    Faith, you are not an idiot for beleiving and having faith, the writers have asked you to do so. In Pink Slip: he still loves you, in Three words Chuck says that he loves her and she is in tears at the end. In Angel del Muerte, the looks they give each other when being questioned by Awesome and Ellie. In Awesome Operation, the look they give each other when Sarah arrives for dinner. In First Class the pleading that Sarah makes for Chuck not to go on the mission and the way she is like a caged animal when he is in danger.

    These bits continue in Natcho Sampler when they discuss how she felt when sizeing him up as a mark “that’s what made it so hard”. In the Mask the joy at being teamed together and the bickering. Finally in Fake Name, the look on Sarah’s face when she sees Chuck and Hannah at dinner.

    Through out the season the writers have been portraying contradictory things, they’re over but they still love each other. It’s a bit of a cheat in that no matter what they do they can claim that the season thus far supports it.

  7. eaglemmoomin says:

    It has bar a couple of parts of certain scenes here and there in the mask, been done well. Look if Sarah had just smiled at Shaw in Castle, if Shaw had just talked at the end and maybe brushed her shoulder. Then the majority of fans who are not only interested in Chuck and Sarah being together would probably have no issue with what is happening. I can’t see how anybody could think that fans that like and are enjoying what the entire arc is about are ‘toeing’ the party line? That statement smacks of bitterness somewhat. I don’t think the majority dislike the general direction and while some may have some issues with some of the execution. Blanket statements about how the majority of the fanbase dislike the current arc are patently false. Otherwise the ratings would be totally through the floor and critical opinion would be totally gone.

    • Ernie Davis says:

      I think that it is important to remember most viewers are watching at a pretty superficial level and probably don’t invest much time thinking about the characters. If you aren’t heavily invested in the characters and don’t mind soaps, then no, it hasn’t been a bad season. Though as an aside I’ve found the plot holes in the writing and the production values to be more of a problem this season, but I’m not sure if that is just because missing the fun factor I’m less willing to overlook these things or they’re actually worse.

      When it comes down to it you can’t take this show seriously. The spy stuff and the action are pretty lightweight and paper thin. Mixed with the comedy and some drama/romance it all clicked. The one thing you could take seriously and invest in was the actors giving us well developed and real characters who we could identify with. The characters gave the show a meaning and a reality that made it seem worthwhile. This season apparently they decided to try and take the romance from something they often touched on only tangentially or momentarily and bring it front and center. To me it has played like a soap, and in the process made the characters and the story far less unique and far less compelling. All season I’ve been lowering my expectations, and having them met.

      • Lucian says:

        What made Chuck a unique show for two seasons (IMO) is they way they balanced the romance, the action and the comedy, all on the fantasy of a guy getting a supercomputer downloaded into his head. We all were willing to suspend our disbelief because we really liked the two leads. Ultimately, it was all about “nerd gets the girl”. What they have told us this year is that we were stupid to think that the nerd really could get the girl. Silly us.

        You make their relationship dysfunctional/juvenile, and then the rest of the stuff doesn’t work. They had it figured out, IMO, for two seasons; now, not so much. If Sarah and Shaw would elope and fly off to Lisbon, I think they could build a good show again with Chuck, Morgan and Casey. I’d miss the romance, but I’d prefer that to what we are getting this season.

      • atcdave says:

        I do think a majority of fans are disappointed this season. Of the eight people I know who watch on a more casual level, not a single one is happy. Only one of those has stopped watching. Most of us know, even very good shows, occasionally head directions we don’t like. So far, most the fans I know are willing to ride it out. But as Ernie commented earlier, TPTB are spending goodwill at a very high rate. If Sham continues until 3.12 I expect more viewers will start dropping out. In fact, I seriously expect numbers to be down tonight. I know 3.09 has been well reviewed, but I think most people don’t pay much attention to individual episode reviews. Most aren’t ready to remove Chuck from their DVRs yet, but it is no longer immediately viewed. That could change quickly if the story-telling improves, but I don’t think many of my friends are eager to watch tonight.

  8. joe says:

    Between love and the noblest cause, there should be no contest.

    That’s from Quantum Leap. Chuck isn’t a hero and we don’t want him to be one. A hero sacrifices self for the good of others; in his case, that would be to give up on Sarah. We want him to remove the conflict.

    Goes for Sarah, too.

    Hey! Balance is restored! I’m not in agreement with ATCDave about this. No, not about your intelligence, Faith. But I agree with you that I feel like an idiot and continue to have faith. You expressed my sentiments perfectly.

    • AngelTwo says:

      With all due respect, I think you missed the one decent part of the season so far: Chuck goes for the noblest cause (being a spy) BECAUSE he loves (Sarah).

      That is where the salvation will lie this season. Such as salvation can be…

      • joe says:

        ??? But I agree with you, Angel. That’s precisely what I think.

        Chuck gave up on his dream of being with Sarah at the end of The Mask. We’re supposed to believe at the end of Fake Name that he can’t be a hero either. Ernie’s post yesterday essentially said that salvation is not possible. I may be alone in disagreeing with that, but here I sit.

      • Jason says:

        joe, without retcon or without just forgetting what happened, the thing that can’t be saved is chuck sarah – sarah crossed the line 3 times in 3.8, the name, the watching chuck get pummeled without intervening, then going to shaw and intitiating physical contact to a fadeout, which whether you want to make things up or not, was an intentional fadeout to sex.

        UNLESS those things are somehow retcon’d or explained (like sarah telling chuck or ellie or margan she and shaw never had sex), CS can only be saved by some suspension of memory by the shipper fan base.

        It probably will happen, but will never be the same.

        What you don’t get, this story always has been paper thin, the only thing of substance has been the feelings for the 5 or 6 main characters toward one another.

      • Ernie Davis says:

        Joe, I think you miss my point. If you take these characters seriously, as we’ve been able to do in the past, and if you take the story at face value, not as soapish exaggeration or poor writing exactly how do you get to happy ending?

        My great fear is that since they decided to unleash the angst and go this route they’ve damaged the characters and the story so much for so many of us that I really won’t care how they get them together, it’s probably just another lame soapish melodramatic twist or TPTB still spending our investment in the characters and story from season 2, the same characters and story they’ve systematically destroyed weakened, to make some sort of resolution possible.

      • Jason says:

        this is an opinion to extreme, if casey, general B, CS improvised the second scene (to define the spy story), then chuck and morgan improv’ed the 1st scene with jeff, bigmike, and lester,to define the buymore story, and if they left the last 5 minute for CS to improv the ending, all the writers would have to do is fill in the blanks, they would have a 2.6M nielson rating each week. This show is that easy – they actually did about the only thing that would allienate the base this year, i.e. ruin chuck and sarah, individually and as a couple.

      • OldDarth says:

        “essentially said that salvation is not possible. I may be alone in disagreeing with that, but here I sit.”

        Never fear Joe. You are not alone! 😀

      • JC says:

        Like someone else said Chuck should be running for the hills, not back to Sarah.

        If they end the season as friends, I could accept that but not anything more. I just can’t see why Chuck would want anything to do with her at this point.

      • weaselone says:

        I almost have to agree with this. Not certain about running for the hills, but a close professional and friendly relationship would probably be healthier than the just warmer than lukewarm/long Siberian night thing they have going on now.

        If they end the 13 episode arc where they decide they want to remain together as a team, I think that would be a pretty good place. It would certainly change the feel of their encounter with the old spy couple into something more bitter sweet, a reflection of what could have been as much of a distorted reflection of what could be.

      • Jason says:

        darth – are you not afraid that the same element that created ‘crazy’ shippers like me, stirred something in most avg ‘fans’, and the element that is causing this anger from the shippers will cause ‘turn the channel’ mentality in avg fans.

        I am in this show for the duration, I still like it, but whatever got me in S1/S2 has been killed with a blunt instrument in S3?

      • PeterOinNj says:

        “salvation is not possible. I may be alone in disagreeing with that, but here I sit.”

        I’m here too Joe. And your salvation quote seems more appropriate to me personally than you might know – 3.13, widely spec’d as the resolution episode, airs on Monday, April 5th – Easter Monday. I’m hoping we see a resurrection.

      • AngelTwo says:

        Actually, I don’t think they’ll air e13 on April 5. That would put it against the Final championship game. To make their stated late May finale date, NBC is going to have to couple of weeks. My bet is on April 5, we’ll get a Chuck rerun or alternate programming.

        So I bet you’ll have to wait still another week for the redemption…

    • metajoke says:

      Folks, I think you missed the essential truth of all of this: The Chuck show we know and loved, and the characters we knew and loved, ended with Colonel.

      Starting with Ring, this is an entirely different show. You can like it or hate it, but Chuck 2.0 is not the Chuck show that ended with Colonel.

      I don’t like Chuck 2.0. The characters are cartoons, the spy stuff is stupid, the humor sporadic and the writing atrocious. So when Chuck and Sarah come together in Chuck vs. The Other Guy, it will be in the same stupid and soapy way the first 13 episodes have been told.

      That’s the ONLY approach you can take to watching Chuck 2.0 now. It has NOTHING to do with that show Chuck we love that ended last May. And, oddly, I came across a lizjames post from before the season started that predicted it would be this way. It’s just too bad she forgot her own prediction…

      No matter, though, I’m pretty much indifferent to Chuck 2.0. I’ll watch tonight to see if anything really picks up. But these people called Chuck and Sarah? Who cares. They are cartoons and are not related to the Chuck and Sarah from that great show Chuck that ended last May.

      • atcdave says:

        I agree with most of this; as I was saying the other day, my favorite show ended at 2.21. Once we get past 3.13, I may regain some of my affection for the show and characters; but I’m really not sure, and I’m certainly not counting on it.

  9. sd says:

    Well, as it’s been discussed by the showrunners…this season was a re-set.

    Does anyone think the “re-set” would have been more “successful” from a C/S point of view if the opening and closing scenes in Colonel hadn’t exsisted?

    • amyabn says:

      SD, I would have to vote NO. We had two seasons of moments, expressions and demonstrations of the feelings they shared. It was a lot of those moments that had me hooked from day one. Now you want to hit the magic reset button and poof! those feelings and emotions are gone? BS.
      Furthermore, I think this season could have kept the same endstate and kept Chuck and Sarah fumbling through these challenges TOGETHER. As I mentioned in another reply earlier, they work better as a team (and this has nothing to do with Chuck having an Intersect in his head). It applies with working with Casey as well. TPTB could have played up a clumsy, comedic Chuck, some more dramatic elements when the Intersect failed to work and something bad happened. They could have explored them fighting after one of them had to do a seduction mission (like Nacho Sampler) or over stupid stuff like learning to live together (Chuck, stop leaving the toilet seat up!).
      Instead, they have kept their two best assets (Zach and Yvonne) apart (both literally and figuratively). It has been painful to watch, and I’m being cautiously optimistic that their reunion will be one worth waiting for. If not, even I will not care about a Season 4. And believe me, that is saying a LOT!

      • sd says:

        However…the bar was set high…the guantlet thrown—choose whatever cheesy metaphor you want (you know, TPTB would–ha)
        those expressions, moments etc were “realized” in the Colonel..there was no doubting now…C/S were two people who took a huge step toward admitting their feelings for one another.
        That’s why I think that ep in particular has made this season so painful for those who wanted forward progression in the C/S story.

      • amyabn says:

        I guess maybe I didn’t explain myself well. I agree with you. The reset trashed what we’ve known and felt for 2+ years, which is why I’m having a hard time enjoying this season. The premise has so much promise, but the execution (keeping them apart, making it so OOC) has made the show painful. Hope I make more sense. 🙂

    • atcdave says:

      Like Amy said, I think they had to do Colonel; they built to it for two seasons. And after Colonel, the reset is a mistake, no two ways about it.
      They could have, from the beginning, set a slower pace for things. If Chuck and Sarah had built towards a good working relationship and friendship, with little romantic pressure; they could have pursued romantic relationships with others this season and then decided they really needed/wanted each other. But with the pace they set, and then Colonel, there is no going back.
      As Amy said, they could easily have dealt with all the painful growth and learning issues this season with Chuck and Sarah as a couple. That also would have a built in comedy potential with them trying to learn how to live together; but what we’ve gotten is a worst case scenario in every way you look at it.

  10. Rick Holy says:

    This is going to be rather odd coming from a priest, but to quote Forrest Gump (there are so many great quotes from Forrest Gump), “…. I know what love IS!”

    The bottom line is that these two love each other – they have from season 1. You can argue when exactly it was that attraction/infatuation turned to genuine love, but the fact is that they DO love each other. Season 1 and DEFINITELY Season 2 (especially the end) established that.

    People who are REALLY in love make the necessary sacrifices first, they put the good of the other first, the FORGIVE the faults of the others, and when the ride gets a little rocky, they don’t turn to someone else for “comfort.” (that’s a nice way of saying SEX – although in Sarah’s case, I’m still not sure the Shaw/Sarah-Sam relationship has reached that point).

    The sad part of Season 3 is that they want us to believe what is actually true – that these two people DO love each other – yet what we saw (mostly, with a few exceptions – don’t get me started on the Jill thing) in S1 & S2 was the two of them willing to make sacrifices for the other, willing to put the other first, etc, – to really demonstrate what love means.

    So with the “behavior” we’ve seen in S3, should we now assume that they’re no longer in love? No. They’ve both turned to someone else yet you can see in Sarah/Sam’s and Chuck’s facial expressions (and for Chuck, his recent realization after talking with Ellie that he DOES in fact still love Sarah), that they still love each other.

    My main complaint is that S3 demonstrates a SERIOUS regression of that love – at least as it is demonstrated through their behavior. PEOPLE IN LOVE DON’T KEEP HURTING EACH OTHER – AND IF THEY REALIZE THAT’S WHAT THEY’RE DOING, THEY STOP IT! Yet the writers & TPTB seem to simply allow Chuck and Sarah/Sam to keep hurting each other over and over and over again. That’s what’s most pathetic about the whole thing.

    They COULD have made this a season which truly “picked up” where S2 ended – with the two of them coming together, facing TOGETHER the difficulties of both being spies, Chuck having Intersect 2.0, etc., etc. It would have made for some great character and relationship development. Instead what did we get (to this point) – silly, childish behavior.

    I’m beginning to believe the people who claim that J.S. only knows how to create shows that deal with teen angst (truthfully, I’ve never watched the other show of his – Gossip Girl?? NO THANKS) because what we’re seeing is not a relationship between adults, but between two people who are acting like children.

    Remember the Huey Lewis song early in Season 2? The POWER of Love! So far in Season 3 it’s been the RIDICULOUSNESS of Love! Like our good friend liz said, THESE 2 CHARACTERS CAN’T HAVE A REAL HEART TO HEART TALK AFTER ALMOST THREE YEARS?? PUHLEASE!

    It’s sad, really, when you think about what could have been this season. Even if it “picks up,” the damage has been done – and the believability facotr has been thrown out the window – or make that flushed down the toilet.

    But there is good news. I, an admitted Chuckaholic, have found the cure to my addiction. Just watch season 3!

    • OldDarth says:

      Would Frodo’s return to the Shire be as meaningful without having gone through Mordor?

      Rick, as a priest you should know better than anyone that to get to heaven one often has to go through hell first.

      How could they face the world together given where they both stood as people at the end of S2?

      One mistake and they would be dead. No do overs. No second chances in the spy world.

      Loving the season. Chuck and Sarah have been given foibles, more depth, and made more human.

      • Lucian says:

        Old Darth – the difference between Frodo and Chuck, was that Mordor was were he was required to go to complete the task he needed to complete to save Middle Earth. Most of Chuck and Sarah’s issues relate to their unwillingness to actually talk to each other (which is pretty essential in any kind of adult relationship). Mordor was the destination and the point of the journey. Chuck and Sarah’s issues are of their own making. They are no longer behaving like two moderately healthy adults who would like to have a real relationship. It has devolved into teen angst melodrama. That is the antithesis of epic.

      • AngelTwo says:

        Forgive me, but THIS is exactly what is wrong with conventional wisdom types. This “one mistake and they would be dead” meme is crap.

        The writers WANT to tell this story. Fine. But to claim that it is the ONLY way to tell the story is simply stupid. This is NOT the real world. If it were, there’d be no Intersect–or an ISP that would allow an attachment that big to go via Email. 🙂

      • Rick Holy says:

        Respectfully, I disagree – and almost COMPLETELY. But that’s part of the “fun” of what for me – and judging from this blog, for at least a few others – has been a “less than fun” season. Some of us see things through rose-colored glasses, others through fogged up, smudged up ones! Hopefully tonight’s and the succeeding episodes will help take the smudge off of mine – at least a little! 😉

      • weaselone says:

        Chuck’s relationship with Sarah isn’t the equivalent of Frodo venturing into Mordor, Chuck’s entry into the darker seedier side of the spy world is probably the closest parallel although we could see something more directly equivalent at a later date. Frodo didn’t have a love interest among his traveling companions, although one could conceivable stretch Frodo’s relationship to Gandalf or Sam to somewhat parallel the journey, although Samwise is more of a Morgan equivalent and Gandalf is closer to Bryce.

        If we want to go with love triangles, the closest parallel is probably Aragorn, Eowyn, and Arwen. Aragorn and Arwen’s circumstances make their relationship a complicated one. They are from two different worlds and any union requires a great sacrifice of Arwen, a sacrifice Aragorn would rather she not make. Eowyn is Aragorn’s easy choice. She’s the perfect human match for him, smart, strong, beautiful, hard-headed, politically well connected and by pursuing her Arwen would not be forced to forsake her people, her immortality and to suffer his death for centuries.

        Of course, this love triangle is a comparatively minor focus of the Lord of the Rings trilogy. Aragorn essentially chooses Arwen in the process of reconciling with and embracing his destiny. Strangely enough, I don’t recall him ever having sex with Eowyn, nor does Arwen engage in a make out session with a chiseled elf while separated from Aragorn. There also tended to be fairly open, two-sided conversations between Aragorn and his two love interests. I’m sure these were just oversights on Tolkien’s part and that he lamented their absence for the rest of his days.

      • weaselone says:

        “One mistake and they would be dead. No do overs. No second chances in the spy world.”

        Yes, exactly. One mistake, or perhaps just bad luck or insurmountable odds and one of them could be dead with no do overs or second chances regardless of whether they have a relationship or not. That would mean no confessions of love, no relationship, just one broken person full of regrets for words not spoken and risks not taken.

        That’s no going to happen because the writers have a story to tell. It wouldn’t happen if they put them together for exactly the same reason, unless they wanted to tell a different story.

      • OldDarth says:

        Lucian – thematically they are the same.

        Chuck and Sarah are not in the same Shire at the end of S2. But by going through separate Mordors of their internal issues they will both come out and meet in a mutually compatible Shire.

      • OldDarth says:

        “Forgive me, but THIS is exactly what is wrong with conventional wisdom types. This “one mistake and they would be dead” meme is crap.”

        Your dismissal of so called ‘conventional wisdom’ does not render the point moot. You may not like it but it still exists.

        By dismissing you are in effect saying – I don’t really care about anything except Chuck and Sarah being together. If that satisfies you, fine.

        But don’t begrudge those who want a more substantial tale told.

      • OldDarth says:

        “Respectfully, I disagree – and almost COMPLETELY. But that’s part of the “fun” of what for me – and judging from this blog, for at least a few others – has been a “less than fun” season. Some of us see things through rose-colored glasses, others through fogged up, smudged up ones! Hopefully tonight’s and the succeeding episodes will help take the smudge off of mine – at least a little! ;)”

        Absolutely. Agreeing to disagree should always be the conclusion to divergent viewpoints.

        PS – some also like to step out from between the trees and take in the whole view of the forest. ;D

      • Lucian says:

        Weaselone – thanks for saying what I was thinking. Tolkein actually did know how to tell a heroes’ journey and a romance without teen angst. To put this season’s version of Chuck on the same level is simply not possible. Star Wars – okay; LOTR – spare me.

      • JC says:

        Hey now not even Lucas had Leia and Lando making out after Han sacrificed everything for the girl.

      • Rick Holy says:

        A more substantial tale? Sure, I’d love to see a more substantial tale being told. It’s just the way that it’s told in this season doesn’t reveal a whole lot more “substance” than what the characters already went through after the first two seasons.

        I DO see the forest through the trees, and what I see is numerous character flaws and contradictions that by now – at least in the fictional place of “Chuckland” – should have now been resolved. Instead they’re being repeated – and they’re being repeated to the extent to reveal not growth, but regression in these characters.

        I’m sure someone of your intellect has heard the saying “one step forward and two steps back.” So far this season it’s been – from what I can see – maybe a half of a step forward and about ten steps back – and that just doesn’t cut it.

        I’ve said since the end of last season that I didn’t expect to see them march down the aisle this season. But what I HAD hoped for is something MORE SUBSTANTIAL than little ring bearer boy and little flower girl type behavior – and that’s pretty much what we’ve been given.

        Sorry, but I don’t see a progression here at all. What I see is a re-run of multiple aspects of S1 and S2. The story may wind up moving forward by the end of S3 – and I hope it does – but to this point I don’t think these 2 characters have realized anything more/different about their situations than they did at the end of S2.

        Chuck made the decision to “become a spy” at the end of S2. He knew it would come at a cost re: Sarah, his family, friends, etc. Guess what? We’ve plodded through 8 episodes of S3 and what has Chuck learned? That making his OWN decision to become a spy came at a great cost! Enough already. Move it forward. It’s like watching someone wallow in their own misery. You have to be sympathetic, supportive, encouraging, etc., etc. But at some point, you’re doing them a tremendous DISservice if you don’t come right out and say, “Get on with you life already!”

        So LET’S GET ON WITH IT! And one very obvious although “obviously overlooked” way – at least up to this point – has been a SERIOUS conversation between the two main characters in the series.

        I don’t care how “difficult” a relationship they may have and how many “complications” there may be. By this point you have a serious “heart to heart.” And that hasn’t happened.

      • Jason says:

        ok – I finally figured out shaw and sarah, shaw is sarah’s long lost sister, after a sex change operation, amazing what those anabolic steroids can do for one’s build, oh – I forgot to mention, ellie performed the surgery – only in tv can we have such fun people – geeeez – I think I am finally getting sick of this mess

      • Jen says:

        Well said Rick. I like more substance, i don’t mind going deeper into the characters, discovering their fears and insecuritues… but all S3 has done is show focus on this and make C&S more broken than they needed to be. So while i do appreciate character development and C&S becoming more real, i think it all was taken too far and i’m tired of it.

        And let;’s not get started on their lack of communication… that upsets me the most.

        Our chow has been converted into a soap opera… and i hate soap operas. I love Chuck, so i hope we make a comeback starting today.

      • atcdave says:

        Excellent posts Rick and Weaselone. I really haven’t seen the epic journey this year. Especially agree, Chuck and Sarah relationship issues should not be compared to Morder. If he became a spy as a sort of “head the call”, we’ve seen little of the mission. Sarah should be a secondary element (a very important secondary element); an ally and traveling companion. But instead, they’ve made the Chuck and Sarah malfunction the main issue this year. We’ve gotten a rehashing of the most cliched elements of S1 and 2. The spy part of the show has been relegated so far back we know nothing more about what the Ring wants than we did at the start. And Chuck is dealing with the same lying issues he did in S1. This is simply the no fun version of Chuck.

  11. BigCheese says:

    Well, many agree with the disappointment of season 3 has given us so far, I would like to invite you all to leave your comment in NBC board topic “Not happy with” Chuck “.


    Open your hearts guys. I think it would be very interesting to put these brilliant opinions expressed here out there.

  12. OldDarth says:

    Thanks for the heads up. Off to post my positive position there right away. 8)

  13. Faith says:

    This is from the Lion King of the boards. Hope it brings some much needed (irony) humor to your day.

    • Zsjaer says:

      ROTFL……This is absolut hilarious!!!! At least for once Hitler was right!! lol!!!

    • PeterOinNj says:

      Oh thank you, thank you – I needed that!

      “Maybe the teriyaki salad …”

      Thank you!

    • weaselone says:

      Der Untergang and Chuck is definitely an odd, but surprisingly hilarious combination although it gave me a headache until I turned off the volume and restarted.

      • weaselone says:

        I should probably add that I speak German and it was the conflict between the text and words that gave me the headache not something inherent to the German language so as to avoid insulting any German Chuck fans.

      • atcdave says:

        That’s really funny weaselone. I was impressed at the matching of dialogue and tone, but then I don’t speak German!

    • JC says:

      “I read a comment on IMDB that Sarah finally opens up to Chuck. It will be OK.”

      That made laugh more than it should have.

    • sd says:

      How funny is that! Note perfect. Thanks for posting, Faith

    • Rick Holy says:

      You know what would be a MAJOR hoot? If the actor who portrayed Hitler is still alive – and available – get him to be a guest star on Chuck! Maybe he could be Sarah’s/Jenny’s/Sam’s/?’s dear old grandfather!

      We’ve had just about everyone else you could think of guest starring this season and last, so why not “Hitler?”

  14. Jen says:

    This season is just a mess… as much as ive loved some moments, loved Awesome, loved Angel de la Muerte… didn’t hate 3.08… don’t even ask me about 3.07, but as i’ve said before, i hate the reset and we all agree it did NOT improve the show in any way, it has just hurt everything we came to love and has turned C&S into very confusing people we don’t recognize anymore, and all that pisses me off.

    Faith… i don’t think anyone here is stupod for wanting to believe in the con, in trying to come up with an explanation for all the non-sense and plot-craters… on the contrary, is shows smarts and a lot of love for the show… thinking up a con, possible explanations and theories of where the show is going, proves it. You simply showed your love an dpassion for the show 🙂

    We were also being hopeful cause we just couldn’t believe our eyes and ears.

    Nothing has made sense. Chuck never stuck to his word of fixing things with Sarah, they still don’t talk, they can’t be w each other but they can be with others… uh?? They are not just friends and they’ll never be and TPTB are showing just that… but in the process of showing us how C&S belong together they have dragged C&S through the mud.
    That makes me sad.
    I’m still a “crazy shipper”, but i feel the relationship has been so cheapened that i care less. I dont’ think any show producer in his rigth mind would be happy that the fans feel this way. Even if things were to pick up from tonight on… what has happened in this season up to 3.08 has been so sad that i could never come back to those eps again.I would just pretend they never happened becuase they don’t make sense; even if we try to rationalize actions and motivations. All the agnst was unecessary.

  15. Faith says:

    Regarding the reset. See that’s the thing. They introduced the idea to us in comic con but only as it relates to the “Chuck and Sarah has gone through something traumatic” premise. Nowhere in there did what I call “beginning of the end” come into play so you had to believe they added that idea on top of the already bursting dissatisfaction they saw personally at comic-con. And here’s the really dumb part, I get it. I could live with it. Pink Slip and all that made sense. After that?

    There’s conflict to tell a good story and conflict to just tell conflict for conflict sake. I’ve sprouted the company line before. I acknowledge that this is them breaking down all we knew before to rebuild them. I postulated that we are supposed to hate them now and that’s the best indicator on how far they’ve gotten. But ask yourself. Did it have to get this bad? There’s good storytelling and there’s good writing. This is at times good writing but overall bad story telling. And this is what I mean my being an idiot. For believing.

    • Jason says:

      I think it is possible in 3.9, that sarah’s engagement ring gets seen by ellie, that sarah sees shaw brining ellie into the mix, that shaw again recklessly endangers chuck, and sarah’s only reaction will be to mash with shaw at the end of the episode. I think chuck is going to tell sham that he did not flash in capturing the bad guys and essentially walk away from sham. Cause really sarah no longer exists, she is shaw’s Siamese twin as far as S3 is concerned. I suppose things will be 100% normal in 3.10, then right back to sham in 3.11? don’t be suprised.

    • JC says:

      I do think the writers may have misjudged some people reactions to certain emotional scenes. I know the scene with S/S was supposed to be the wake up for Chuck. But I can’t help feel like Ernie that would be the end of the C/S romance in real life.

      • Jen says:

        If it’s the end of C&S then i believe it will be as far as many of us fans will go.

        I don;t like my emotions being played with and i do not being sold a connection/relationship between C&S for 2 years to then just sweep all under a rug.

        In any case… what’s this about Sarah’s engagement ring? did i miss something?

        Faith… i feel just liek you. Conflic for the sake of conflict is NOT good storytelling.

      • Faith says:

        In beard Sarah is wearing an engagement ring at the HB hotel. I believe it’s a cover ring but with Ellie there, if she notices it, she wot know the difference.

        One more thing to add to my post: when Colonel 2.0 comes I’ll be the first, second, third to jump all over it in joy. Me = sucker 🙂

      • Jen says:

        The ring has to be for a mission casue if it were to be real then the show makers have completely gone NUTS.
        YOu can see the ring in the preview for next week? I totally missed it.

        Oh yeah… When Colonel 2.0 arrives i will be dancing circles in my living room!!!

      • Jason says:

        jen – the ring is seen in the directors cut on the nbc previews, takes place at a resort where ellie, awesome, shaw and sarah are at – for sure will find out tonight the details, it is in ep 3.9

  16. kg says:


    You are not alone. And you know it. You are not an idiot. I remember this girl Sarah telling this guy Chuck once that trusting someone doesn’t make you an idiot (Graviton?).

    If anything, you’re guilty of some impatience. If you recall, I was with you and Liz on the con theory. And you know what? It might still be playing out.

    Like Ernie says, many of us have lowered our expectations to get through this crap. Although disapponting, I can see Sarah and Chuck moving on. I can agree that maybe you’re right. They aren’t really in love and have agreed to be good friends.

    But that can’t be true either. Friends talk. Chuck and Sarah don’t talk. And I just can’t believe Sarah’s THAT screwed up. That Chuck isn’t her rock anymore. There’s little to no dialogue, but you can’t deny the way they continue to look at each other. OOC or not, Jeff is correct.

    Bryce I could see. Cole I could see. Shaw. No way in hell. This guy’s a fraud. He’s a piece of dead wood. I can’t see a decent explanation why she would open up to this clown. Why she would reveal her real name.

    Ernie’s work was great, specifically and meticulously detailed, what we’ve come to expect from his, but he’s saying if this is to be taken at face value then Sarah is stupid and idiotic. Faith, despite all the crap thats happened, I still DON’T WANT TO believe that. And I don’t think Ernie does either despite his piece.

    We lost the show for three weeks. And to make matters worse, Old Darth’s Canadians captured gold in ice hockey (seriously, congrats to all Habitants). I think what happened was that you and Liz grew impatient and wanted your theory to be revealed last week. It didn’t and your frustration level pinned and therefore, exploded.

    What if the con is on going and Sarah has made herself look like a pathetic idiot simply to raise the stakes? Shaw is supposed to be competent we’re told. I mean, this is the great Sarah Walker we’re talking about. It was a long time ago, but I have not forgotten the Sarah Walker I witnessed in seasons one and two.

    I’m still holding out some hope that Daniel Shaw, the alleged super spy she herself openly admits she had never heard of, is her greatest challenge as a mark.

    • RH says:

      Kg I wish it where true.

      But what you see is what you get. The writers never wrote the 3D chess and Sarah just likes the guy because he is not Chuck.

      There is no retcon the writers are not creative enough to pull that off. I think Magnus even hinted in the comments section of his blog that there is no con going on. I think he used the phrase stop trying to think Bigger.

      I think OD will admit this as well. No grand reveal just some crazy Sarah/Sam falling for a block of wood.

      Not compelling stuff at all.

      • Jen says:

        I think all is at it seems in regards to the con.. there is no con, but i do believe that have mde C&S be THAT messed up this season. They are definitely in love with each other. Sarah i doubt is falling for Shaw, she still loves Chuck.. but she is THAT messed up and has gotten even more messed up by Chuck (who is also messed up) actions this season (i mean c’mon… sleeping with Hannah and then coming into castly whistling??????). The thing is that we have no reason to feel hope anymore because we have gotten the rug pulled from underneath us so many times and while it seems that Chuck may have finally woke up, you never know what hey will make the character do… instead of just making C, and S do the adult thing which is talk.

        This is all getting old. Seriously, another season of this and I’m out. I really hope tonight’s ep is all that it’s supposed to be for the story and because I’m proud of ZL for directing it. I hope tonight we start on the path to recovery. I guess i still hold hope.

  17. BigCheese says:

    You know what? I’m enjoying this JJ Abrams project.

    I think it will be a perfect alternative to Chuck. I’m excited. Seems to have a couple (I’ll love it). It seems everything Chuck “could” be. Let’s see what happens.

    I’m tired of this season. I’ll stay around until 313/314, if we have NO SIGN OF A FUTURE relationship with CS, I’m out. If they do not end up completely with the relationship (which I think will happen) we will always have this teenager thing. They need it, seems the only way. What is a shame, because as I said Chuck had a potential.

    The hero without the girl is not me. It’s time to move forward not backwards.

    Nothing better than competition 😉

    • atcdave says:

      I do wonder how aware of Chuck JJ Abrams is; because it sure seems like his new project could be the show many of us wanted Chuck to be.

      • weaselone says:

        Well, if it is and turns out to be a success while Chuck goes down in flames, we can all write JS and tell him “You had your chance and you blew it.”

      • atcdave says:


      • Faith says:

        will we be able to deliver a punch and choke-hold as well? 😉

      • Ernie Davis says:

        Sadly, the perfect cast for that show is presently being wasted on an extra round of teen angst, because that’s what people really want.

      • BigCheese says:

        I was worried, everyone said: if you are not enjoying it, then look at something else, with a smile on their face, because it is obvious that there is no competition with Chuck. Things will change.

        About the famous quote mentioned by weaselone, this is a good joke to Ali, because she loves doing that sort of thing 😉

        I’m loving all of this.

  18. Fake Empire says:

    My heart goes out to you Faith. You’re truly not an idiot – exactly the opposite from what I can tell. I also get seriously bummed out when I read all the frustrations, and when I think of S3’s direction, which is why I am taking a mucher lower key approach to the boards now. This season has felt like a grind. It’s normal to allow the characters as they were portrayed in S1 and S2 to color your hopes and interpretations of S3 (and particularly C&S). That was the established context – set up over 34 episodes (not counting the Ring) – by TPTB themselves. Of course we’re going to be shocked – and in some cases, hurt – by TPTB applying C4 to this show and making it hardly recognizable now.

    FWIW, I do think we’ll get a Colonel 2.0. I am optimistic of that. What I’m not so certain of is when and what we’ll have to stomach en route to it. My hopes are that we are just about there.

    • Fake Empire says:

      Also, fwiw, I think we’ll begin to “tip-toe” in the right direction toward the “turn around” tonight in vs. The Beard. Also, there’s no such word as “mucher” – very bad typo. *mildly embarrassed, but will definitely get over it*


    • Faith says:

      thanks for the kind words. In the immortal words of Colonel John Casey: love is for suckers.

      I love Chuck which makes me a sucker LOL. Especially considering that after all this, after all my frustrations, self-deprecation, I’m still looking forward to tonight (in particular).

      Mo Ryan puts this up there with Colonel.

      • atcdave says:

        Really, don’t get your hopes up yet! No matter how good the episode may be, I think we’re looking at some ongoing Sham idiocy for a bit yet.

      • Fake Empire says:

        You’re welcome Faith. Consider me a “sucker” too.

        I agree, Dave. My hopes definitely are not high. I would say they are . . . measured. Though, I still am looking forward to tonight’s epi.

    • BigCheese says:

      You can’t compare an episode as Colonel when you have the presence of Shaw.

      I may be wrong, but is unlikely.

      • Faith says:

        you can when it involves some kind of Shaw disembowelment 😉 Kidding. But him being crashed down to earth would be sweet.

      • BigCheese says:

        I spent the first 2 seasons hating Bryce, and when he died I felt horrible.

        Crazy but it’s true ^^

  19. Waverly says:

    I believe that at the moment, and for most of the recent episodes, Chuck and Sarah are devoted to each other but are not in love with each other.

    The best explanation I have for Sarah’s behavior toward Shaw is that she really is emotionally lost. She is willing to give up her own dreams so that Chuck can have his, or at least what she thinks are his. She still holds Chuck in very high regard and thus tends to believe what he says — that Sarah and Shaw would be perfect together. Despite several misgivings, she proceeds because she’s incapable of seeing a better alternative.

  20. Chuckaddict says:

    I watched vs. the Fake Name for the second time last night. This episode didn’t bother me nearly as much as vs. the Mask. Maybe because we see some redemption in Chuck.

    In the scene where Rafe grabs Sarah and has the gun to her head, there is a camera angle shot over Chuck’s shoulder. She is looking directly at him, not Shaw. After the shot you can also see she is looking to the left of the two (Chuck and Shaw), where Chuck is standing. Here’s to hope…

    Even in HD slow motion, I couldn’t tell what Sarah was doing the split second before Casey shoots Rafe. Her right hand comes up but out of the picture. Reaching for the gun?

    For me this was the most disturbing scene of the season. All of the Sarah/Shaw interaction is just creepy, unbelievable and with no chemistry. That scene was flat disturbing.

    • Waverly says:

      What bothered me at that moment was that the bullet should have come from the side, through the window, and yet a moment later we see Rafe with what I assume is supposed to be a hole in his forehead.

      I think it highly unlikely that Rafe would have turned to his right at that instant.

      • Ernie Davis says:

        That’s one of those things that didn’t used to bother me when there was a payoff in return for allowing certain things to pass.

    • BigCheese says:

      You are a hero for watch it second time.

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