What About Casey?

I thought it would be nice to take a break from centering these things around Shaw,   so this post will be about speculating about major events in our favorite show using a character we all actually like as a starting point.

I think its a safe bet Casey will reclaim his rightful place on team Bartowski at some point in the near future.    I would love to see Chuck build a sort of “B” team of civilian assets who help him from time to time;  namely,  Casey,  Morgan,   and Devon.    But I really don’t see it unfolding that way.   We may see that odd assortment in the next couple episodes,   but I’m sure by 3.13 or 3.14 Casey will be a fed again.    The bigger question to me is if we’ll ever hear of his fiance and daughter again.    I’m not one to scour the web for every casting detail,  so some of you may be more aware than I if they’ve been brought back or not.    I do hope we see them again.  I love the idea of Casey having some real normal people in his life.    It could even be an anchor to keep in LA in the short run.    I was also wondering if we’ve heard more details about the Subway episode yet?    I love the idea of Casey being the one who frequents the sub shop to be close to a certain young sandwich maker.   I guess they’d have to progress the story fairly quickly to avoid the creepy factor   (hmm,   why is this 40-something goon trying to be so friendly with a 19 year old fast food worker?)     I guess she might recognize him as one of the crew that saved her mom that one day,   but I think we need to move fast to Casey reconnecting with his family   (what can I say,  I love sappy warm stories).

Obviously a major source of speculation has to be all things Sarah Walker.   We know next week Sarah and Shaw will be overseeing Chuck’s final exam.   Previews and spoilers indicate Chuck and Sarah will actually have a serious and emotional discussion at some point,  including the re-emergence of the Prague incident.   But based on the published synopsis of 3.12 Chuck and Sarah will still be somewhat estranged heading into that episode.    My bet,  for no particular reason,  is we will know Sarah is done with Shaw before the end of Final Exam (although Chuck may not know).    There is a scene in my mind’s eye I would love to see play out:   Chuck doesn’t know the result of exam failure would be his death.   Shaw may have his finger on a switch to explode something on Chuck’s person,   while we see Sarah slowly drawing her gun and leveling it at Shaw.    That could be a better break-up scene than Chuck and Jill!   Maybe we even learn later her whole reason for getting close to Shaw was all about protecting Chuck.   Its just a stray thought,  I don’t actually expect anything so dramatic and fun.    But no matter how well or poorly things go between them in 3.11,  I expect a melancholy end.   Chuck will pass his test,   and Sarah will announce she is leaving.   Probably leaving the whole spy world for a “normal” life.    As she said way back in the Mask (yes, the unmentionable episode),  she thinks at some point she will be in Chuck’s way professionally, and personally.   Sarah will decide her final sacrifice after helping Chuck achieve his career objectives,  is to step away and leave him be.    We know that won’t last long.   It looks like 3.12 will be all about Chuck and his crew proving to Sarah that Chuck wants and needs her as a permanent part of his life.    I think by the end of that episode we will finally be at a happy place for the two of them,   leading to a mostly spy-themed story (do they actually still do those?)  for 3.13.    It may take until 3.13 to get all the way there,  but I think they’ll be mostly alright in 3.12.  

As for Shaw, the less said the better.   Published synopsis have Chuck questioning his stability in 3.13.   About time.   I doubt he will be a villain.   I’m thinking half-mad revenge driven hero.    Hopefully that includes the heroic death.    One spoiler was something about Chuck and Shaw remaining connected.    Perhaps they’re half brothers (thru Orion) or maybe Shaw will be the next human intersect.   There have also been reports of Branden Routh being on set during shooting of the finale.   I’m hoping this is for flashbacks only,  but it does seem to make killing him off less likely.

We could speculate about Ellie and Devon too.   Will they head to Africa?   does this mean they will leave the show?   I can firmly say,  I have no idea.

–  Dave

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About atcDave

I'm 54 years old and live in Ypsilanti, Michigan. I'm happily married to Jodie. I've been an air traffic controller for 31 years; grew up in the Chicago area, and am still a fanatic for pizza and the Chicago Bears. My main interest is military history, and my related hobbies include scale model building and strategy games.
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135 Responses to What About Casey?

  1. Fake Empire says:

    Thanks for calling an audible! You might be onto something with your team B idea for team B. (Would that be Team B.b?) Didn’t the promo clip of C&S fighting together show Casey and Morgan bound together on the floor?

    I would like to see Casey reconnect with his family. They did locate them close by; I hope they tap that potential. I have a soft spot for daughters since I have a great one! I can imagine Casey being a good father to his girl. Too bad for any prospective boyfriends having to meet John Casey and win his approval!

    I’ve read on this blog potential spoilers about Shaw’s stability. I wonder if he will become obsessed over losing Sarah, causing some pathology to surface. Maybe Awesome was tackling a stalker Shaw . . .

    • Paul says:

      As much as I would love to see Casey connect with his family, I think it is a dead end… for this season at least. The thing about Casey is this: he fully understood and accepted the consequences of his decision that he made as a young man. That decision may have played into why he’s the gruff, grunting, Bourbon swigging “burn-out” he is today, but he’s accepted and come to terms with it. And since we can safely assume that Casey will be back on the team relatively soon, I don’t know if he would want to bring his ex and his daughter into the spy world again. However, the romantic in me would love to have Casey send her a letter as John Casey saying that he knew Alex Coburn and at he “died with her in his mind and heart” or something like that.

      • Fake Empire says:

        Yeah, Paul, you’re probably right. Even though in this episode Casey clearly put “love” over “love of country,” he is most likely done with them. Although, the father in me would enjoy seeing him connect with his daughter. I’m a little biased because I treasure my relationship with my daughter.

      • atcdave says:

        Kind of like my Sarah scenario, I think much more interaction with the family is highly unlikely. That’s why I filed this as “wild speculation”. Its almost more my wishlist than my expectations.

      • Paul says:

        FE, I think for Casey 20 years is just too much time. We all know that Casey is not good with emotions (even though we can obviously see that his gruff exterior is just armor for a soft interior), and I don’t know if he is equipped to deal with a daughter that is now a young woman. I don’t even think he would know where to start. And what to say about the last 20 years? I think it’s done…for now. 😀

  2. JLR says:

    I’m more interested in Casey’s personal life than any other character’s at this point. I’d like to see some sort of redemption for him; guy deserves some, I think. MAYBE TPTB could do Casey angst in a satisfying way?

    • atcdave says:

      Casey is certainly the least damaged of the main characters at this point (I mean, compared to where he started!); so its easiest to root for him. I’m still rooting for Chuck and Sarah too, just with less enthusiasm than last season.

      • JLR says:

        Yeah, and I am beyond peeved that I feel this way about C/S individually. I mean, they’ve both annoyed me in the past (especially whiny/needy Chuck), but I’ve never actively disliked them before. That’s what draws my ire towards TPTB; I kinda feel like they’ve robbed me of my love of the show. I REALLY liked the characters, that’s why I “fell for” the show in the first place. It’s been taken away from me, and I’m not happy about it. I wish I could get myself to watch those sterile procedurals, but I can’t.

      • atcdave says:

        I’m with you 100% That is exactly how I feel about this season. That’s kind of why I suggested a scenario that would redeam Sarah in a major way.

      • Paul says:

        Casey and Sarah are interesting characters IMHO because they are so different from a character development standpoint. With Casey, you pretty much see what you get. Yes there are some cool things that you can reveal about him, but he is straightforward and easy to understand. Sarah you have to work much harder to try to understand (and to me that’s now a bad thing). Casey willingly made the choices he made and has accepted the consequnces of them fully. Saray never really was given a choice and IMHO is why she is having the issues she’s having now because she DIDN’T really have a choice. Nice contrats between the two…

  3. BigCheese says:

    I haven’t seen 310 yet, but at 312 I’m curious about Casey shipper. I remember 112, with Chuck encouraging Casey and Ilsa (for me, this is where Chuck won Casey’s heart).

    About CS, SS, well, what can I say? I see nothing positive until 314.

  4. ChuckNewbie8 says:

    Really could have used another funny Hitler video today…things are getting heated 😉 but alas Casey will have to do.

    There hasn’t been that much Casey, mostly that that shall not be named so all the fun and grunts and one liners have been missed. Last week’s Casey centered episode is no coincidence that it’s one of the best of the year. Why? More Casey. And a little Morgan too! I have to say I may not like what has become of most of our characters but I now love the little Bearded man. Carina and I have that in common 😉 He was fabulous in the last epi.

    As for Casey’s back story, I’m torn between rooting for him to rediscover his family and finding love once again with Sugar Bear. I’m just not sure he fits into any sort of normal life. Incidentally does anyone else find Casey’s “love for country, over love of a woman” reminiscent of decades of women struggles? Family or career? I guess I’ve always thought such decisions are easier on men so big ups to the powers that be for challenging gender stereotype.

    • Jason says:

      since sarah does not want to be a spy, casey is not a spy, and sarah has so many restriction on chuck (u think those are going away anytime soon?), maybe the 3 of them plus morgan, stalker’s jeffster will for a private detective agency?

  5. joe says:

    Oh gee. I have near 200 excellent comments to read and respond to, and you just had to write a great, thought provoking post. Thanks, Dave 😉

    Okay – I’m developing this recurring fantasy about the show. It starts with TPTB realizing that s3 may NOT be the last season, and S4 won’t be either. Then they panic at the idea of coming up with enough stories, so they decide to do the only thing they can, and drrrraaaaaagggggggg out the angst, PLIs and romance as long as they possibly could before the torches and pitchforks start coming out. Then in a panic they realize that once Chuck & Sarah are together, they MUST set up another major character for a long, angst-filled arc. Casey to the rescue!

    Oh… a guy can dream. Right?

  6. Merve says:

    I don’t think that Casey is going to reconnect with his fiancée. At the end of “Tic Tac,” he made it pretty clear to Chuck that he had already made a decision. Besides, they might have to go through a lot of trouble to bring the actresses who played the characters back, so it might not be practical. But I do think that it will be mentioned again. (As precedent, I’ve noticed that they haven’t brought back Morgan’s mom yet, even though an ongoing romance between her and Big Mike has been referenced this season.) I think that Casey will get more involved in the insanity at the Buy More, kind of like he did in “First Class.” Baldwin is a great comedic actor, and a greater glimpse into Casey’s life at the Buy More has the potential to be a good source of humour.

    Dave, I think that the Chuck/Sarah romance will go more or less how you’ve outlined it. I’m not so sure that Sarah and Shaw will have an “epic” break-up à la Chuck and Jill, but I have a feeling that there will be a sense of finality to it; Shaw and Sarah will each know where the other stands after the break-up. (I have absolutely no evidence to back this up; it’s just a hunch.)

    As for the Doctors Without Borders subplot, I’m 90% sure that it’s been wrapped up, but there’s a small chance that it might be brought up again. If I remember correctly, Ellie had a line in “Tic Tac” about how dream jobs aren’t always what you expect them to be. Maybe Ellie will run into some non-spy-related trouble at her new fellowship and then decide that she does want to pursue Doctors Without Borders with Devon. That could actually lead to a very interesting storyline, where both Devon and Ellie are heading off to do something that they don’t really want to do, and they’re doing it for the wrong reasons. Devon would be doing it to keep Ellie “safe” and Ellie would be doing it because she thinks that it’s what Devon wants and because her internship went wrong. They might get some more drama out of it from the fact that Devon can’t tell Ellie the real reason why he wants to do Doctors Without Borders. (Heck, it could even lead to Ellie discovering Chuck’s secret.) Nonetheless, all this is just crazy speculation, unlikely to happen.

    And since I’m on the subject, as someone who grew up in a Francophone neighbourhood, I found Devon’s pronunciation of “Médecins sans frontières” appalling. It’s not Spanish, dude.

    • atcdave says:

      My speculative posts are one place I’ve always tried to be optimistic. I claim victory if any predictions are even close to true. I am sure when Sarah is done with Shaw it will be decisive, its just pure optimism to think it may happen this week.
      That’s pretty funny about the pronunciation on Doctors Without Borders, I guess he isn’t awesome about everything.

      • Merve says:

        That’s why speculation is so much fun. Usually, any given person’s speculation is so far off the mark that when someone actually gets it right, it’s kind of like winning the lottery. (Pretty much all my speculation about this season has turned out to be wrong, but unlike purchasing lottery tickets, speculation only costs time, so I’ll continue to do it. 🙂 )

      • herder says:

        Yeah, this season one of the few fun things has been speculation, that and the fact that the vast majority has been positive from almost all posters. And Merve, the reason we feel like we won the lottery when a prediction turns out to be right is that -at least for me- the track record on correct predictions has been similar to lottery odds, very low.

    • Waverly says:

      The organization is known as MEDICOS SIN FRONTERAS in Spain.

      So, yes, Awesome again shows he isn’t. But I thought Morgan’s mimickings were funny.

    • Paul says:

      Well the spoilers from the French site would seem to indicate that DWOB has not been wrapped up as much as we think it has.

      But I did REALLY like the twin perspectives that Ellie and Casey gave to Chuck in regards to making choices. If you look at Chuck’s face when Ellie talked about it was okay to sacrifice her dream job because of Devon, it was THEN that it hit him that he was being selfish in pushing to be a spy when it was hurting Sarah.

      As for Sarah and Shaw, I’m thinking it’s going to die with a whimper. I think it’s simply going to be a matter of Sarah realizing that she DOES love Chuck (and from some of the talk with folks who’ve seen it, there are some pretty big confession dropped by C/S), wants to be with him and that Shaw was merely an escape/distraction that was never going to go anywhere. I think Shaw will be jealous in the short term, but from the synopsis that have been released, I think he probably is going to have bigger fish to fry in the very near future.

  7. BigCheese says:

    Look at this from IMDB:
    312: “When Chuck has to select a partner for an important undercover mission, Casey, Devon, and Morgan conspire to make sure he chooses Sarah”. Really? I’m lost. LOL!

    And this is from Spoiler Page and IMDB:
    For 313: “Chuck questions Shaw’s emotional stability after they find the Ring operative behind the death of Shaw’s wife”. Well the Ring operative must be the character of Mark Sheppard, he’s in 312 and 313.

    What you guys think?

    • atcdave says:

      I can’t imagine why Chuck would consider anyone but Sarah for a partner. The only complications I could see are if she is still involved with Shaw, or if she’s left the agency. That does make it seem like the break from Shaw may not have happened yet in 3.12. I really, really, hate this season.

      • Merve says:

        Maybe it’s a seduction mission. I don’t imagine that Chuck would want to see Sarah attempt to seduce someone while he’s trying to patch things up with her. (I doubt that this is the case, though. They’ve already done seduction missions in at least four episodes.)

      • amyabn says:

        I hope the Carmichaels will be reunited! Chemistry!

    • BigCheese says:

      I found it interesting because it’s different from the official synopsis:

      “CHUCK IS DETERMINED TO GET HIS GIRL BACK-BRANDON ROUTH (“SUPERMAN RETURNS”) GUEST STARS-Chuck (Zachary Levi) has his pick of the best CIA agents for an undercover operation, but he has only one girl in mind for the job-Sarah (Yvonne Strahovski). Casey (Adam Baldwin), Morgan (Joshua Gomez) and Awesome (Ryan McPartlin) team up to help Chuck win her back. Sarah Lancaster, Scott Krinsky and Vik Sahay also star”.

      Anyway… still painful till the end. Well we will need Vicodin, or watch House, lol.

      • atcdave says:

        IMDB is often wrong about these things. I think they jump on preliminary releases that may not quite reflect the final cut. I hope. No matter how damaged Sarah may be, why would Chuck consider anyone else? How many other agents does Chuck even know? Maybe he’s considering Shaw!

      • JLR says:

        It’d be funny if he could choose Carina…

      • atcdave says:

        Or maybe Roan!

      • BigCheese says:

        If Sarah is still with Shaw, he can not consider her, as in “You can always talk to us” in 309.

        He can also think of Casey, for his return to team B.

        Or seduction mission like Merve said above.

      • amyabn says:

        It would be hilarious if they flash a bunch of pictures for Chuck to choose from-Carina, Agent Forrest, Ilsa, etc. He tells them they can stop-and he picks Sarah.

      • Waverly says:

        Or Beckman.

      • Ernie Davis says:

        I keep telling you guys, Beckman has been slow playin’ Chuck for years, waiting for her chance. It’s just that that Walker b*tch keeps rescuing him from the “love bunker” she has prepared.

      • BeCoolBoy says:

        Season 3’s only winners to date: Morgan, who has grown up some; and Bonita Friedercy, who is now a hero to every Chuck fan because she’s become the anti-Shaw.

        I’m with Team Beckman.

    • Paul says:

      I think Sarah’s reaction to Chuck in 3.12 will greatly depend on what happens in 3.11. From all indications, 3.11 is a pivotal eps for Chuck and Sarah, both in a good and maybe bad way (although I think any bad will be fixed relatively soon after). After all, Sarah has ALWAYS been Chuck’s girl. He just needs to remind her of that… ;D

      As far as Chuck worrying about Shaw, I think we will start to see Shaw’s true arc in 3.11. My spec is that Sarah will tacitly break it off with Shaw in 3.11, but Chuck may or may not know yet. In 3.12 Shaw finds out who killed Eve and goes all nutso, requiring Chuck to bail him out. In 3.13 Shaw is driven to get the Ring Director, ignoring everything else around him, and Chuck and Sarah must try to keep Shaw from getting himself killed due to his singlemindedness. Shaw will prove himself to be a tragic character, but one that Chuck and Sarah have empathy for.

  8. JLR says:

    His liver couldn’t handle a long deep op w/ Roan.

  9. AngelTwo says:

    I have a VERY bad feeling about this, but stick with me because I am thinking like TPTB here.

    What is the story they claim they’ve been telling all year? Chuck trying to become a spy and Sarah helping him despite her misgivings.

    What was last week’s episode all about? Sacrifices you make for love. And it ended with Devon and Ellie each sacrificing what they wanted for the other.

    What do we know about Final Exam from the previews? Chuck must kill someone to pass his final spy exam and that someone is unarmed.

    And what do we know about plot lines? The TPTB have been running the same ones from Season 2 in Season 3.

    So what if this is what happens on Monday: Chuck DOES NOT kill the unarmed man. He assumes he’s failed the test. But he’s informed he has passed. He’s confused. But he learns that Sarah killed his target and told Shaw and Beckman that Chuck did it. That not only reruns the Mauser scenario from Santa Claus, it show Sarah sacrificing for the man she loves.

    Chuck, of course, is horrified to learn this and thus doesn’t stop Sarah from leaving for Washington (or, perhaps, out of the CIA). That, in itself, is a flipped rerun of the Train Station scene, which we know will be discussed (finally) in this episode, too. And that’s the big cliffhanger.

    It’s just awful enough for TPTB to run on us…

    • JLR says:

      No…they wouldn’t…???

    • BeCoolBoy says:

      Omigod, they would. Because it would also rerun Chuck’s refusal to kill the guy in the opening scene of Pink Slip. Which pissed off Beckman to know end.

      It’s so gruesome it probably IS what they are going to do.

    • JLR says:

      How can Sarah, much less C/S, come back from something like that (beyond incomprehensible whiplash, that is)? Man, I guess I can see it too.

    • BigCheese says:

      Sarah doing something for Chuck? Right now with Shaw around? Unlikely.

      It’s easier to Shaw kill the target and tell her that it was Chuck.

    • HenryH says:

      Ick! Ick! Ick! It is horrific. It IS what is going to happen. Which would also explain why Chuck might be reluctant to pick Sarah as his partner for his mission in Episode 12.

      And I guess there’s only one bit of good news hered: The Mauser incident was dispatched in about 30 seconds in Third Dimension, so I guess they can gloss that over, too, in time for the happy ending at the end of Episode 12.

    • herder says:

      Hmm…possibly, but this time Chuck would have an appreciation of the personal cost and emotional toil that such a decision entails. It could drive them apart and it could bring them closer. I don’t think that Chuck kills the guy, I think that someone else does, the candidates in descending order to my mind are: Casey, Sarah and Shaw (redemptive act).

      • Paul says:

        I totally agree that Cuck having to endure the Red Test could be a MAJOR factor in growing him up and bringing he and Sarah closer together, regardless of whether he does make his first kill now or at a later time.

        Dramatically, I don’t see Chuck killing someone just quite yet. I still see that as more of the climax to the arc line, thus having to be done in 3.13. But we can assume that someone does it for him. I don’t think anyone from Team B helps, so I think another Ring agent gets to the target first, but everyone will think Chuck completed the mission.

    • Merve says:

      You know, that actually sounds like a decent storyline. Maybe I’m crazy. I actually liked the Mauser storyline until it was essentially glossed over.

      • AngelTwo says:

        Merve, I guess this explains why you and I see Season 3, and the current state of Chuck, so differently. This storyline sickens me because they’ve run it already. Yet it intrigues you. Do you say potato or po-tah-toh? 🙂

      • Merve says:

        Retreads don’t bother me as long as they’re seen through a different lens, and in some cases, they serve to show how much things have changed. One might argue that “Nacho Sampler” was a retread of “Sandworm,” for example, but it showed us how much Chuck’s situation had changed. It gave the audience perspective on the kind of deception required to be a handler, as well as on the consequences of missteps in the spy world.

        I’d even apply the same principle to the PLIs. They’re retreads seen through a different lens. But that doesn’t mean that I approve. I frankly don’t see what the need for PLIs was this season. There were plenty of ways to keep Chuck and Sarah emotionally distant without inserting any physical wedges. “First Class” and “Nacho Sampler” showed us that…and then the final ten minutes of “Mask” happened.

        I guess what I’m trying to say is that retreads don’t bother me. I don’t think that any of my gripes with this season (the use of PLIs being the biggest) can be explained by the fact that they might be due to retreads. I don’t want to condemn any storyline simply based on the fact that it might be a retread. I’d rather judge the storyline on its own merit.

        By the way, who actually says “po-tah-to?” 🙂

      • Merve says:

        On second thought, after reading weaselone’s comment below, I agree. It would be morally reprehensible of Sarah to do that. (But that’s what bothers me about the idea, not the fact that it might be a retread of the Mauser incident.)

    • weaselone says:

      Sarah killing someone with the primary motivation of having Chuck pass his spy exam is pretty morally reprehensible. We aren’t talking about the choice between killing someone and allowing him to go on living at the eventual cost of Chuck and Chuck’s family in this case.

      Sarah’s primary motivation this season seems to be fear. Fear that Chuck will be killed, fear that Chuck is changing, fear of opening herself up to him again, and at the end of Tic Tac the fear of Chuck no longer needing her. That became quite apparent as Beckman’s praise for the Intersect needing her less and less registered on her face. Sarah will leave for Washington DC at the end of 3.11 because in her mind Chuck will no longer need her and she’s so accustomed to being used that she can’t conceive of any reason he would still want her to stay.

      • atcdave says:

        weaselone, that is certainly a more appealing take on things. weaselone good… Angeltwo bad… (um sorry, nothing personal!)

    • atcdave says:

      That’s really dark Angeltwo. Fitting for this season. I hope they don’t go there. Chuck accomplishing the mission while somehow avoiding the kill is what I hope for. But I could see it that way. The worst part about it is, I’m quite sure the relationship is on the mend in 3.12; so this would be just another thing dropped with little resolution. Maybe their final union will be about two damaged characters, ruined for anyone else. It was a beautiful show for two seasons…

    • JC says:

      I’m still thinking about what the guy says ” This is what they want”. What if he has info about the Ring and is willing to talk. Chuck doesn’t kill him but another agent Ring does. Sarah and Shaw think Chuck pulled the trigger.

      This kinda ties back into the promo of we can be together comment. If there’s any reconnection by the two, Sarah thinking Chuck killed the guy would probably break her. Chuck thinks he’s finally a spy and gets the girl but nope. Sarah thinks the old Chuck is gone and he doesn’t get a chance to explain. She leaves either for DC or back to Shaw.

      • BigCheese says:

        What you said JC, is the most likely.

        And as always in season 3, the episode has everything to be good until the last 10 minutes. Unbelievable. I can see again, Fake Name.

        Depressing.

    • Big Kev says:

      You’re right, Angel Two….it’s dark and it’s potentially sickening. I can’t see it though. Sarah has only ever acted when Chuck was under threat physically. The only scenario I can see this happening is if she finds out that the ultimate sanction for Chuck failing the test is not “back to your normal life” but really being bunkered, or terminated.
      I can see a scenario where she kills the mark to save Chuck from either of those fates, tells Shaw that Chuck did it, and has passed his test – and then leaves the CIA in disgust at all its works.
      But killing just so Chuck can pass the test? That’s too dark even for this season. I hope!!

      • Big Kev says:

        BTW – which episode is Christopher Lloyd in? I can see Ellie coming under threat on the African mission, Chuck killing someone to protect Ellie – and then having to work through that in therapy.

    • AngelTwo says:

      Well, now, moral reprehensibility is a silly thing to bring up in this context since Chuck is ordered to kill the target. One assumes he is BAD. If you don’t assume that, you simply can’t even watch Chuck anymore because then TPTB are capping people just for target practice. Even I don’t think that badly of them…

      But Herder’s comment about how Chuck would react THIS TIME if Sarah kills the target sparked another thought: Maybe it IS Shaw who offs the target for Chuck, but his “price” is Sarah.

      In other words, Shaw agrees to kill the target and pass Chuck, but only if Sarah leaves him and goes to Washington. There’s her sacrifice for Chuck. But Chuck finds out and faces the dilemma of either keeping Sarah or telling Beckman the truth and abandoning his “dream” of a spy life.

      And Merve, I agree, the rerun of old plotlines would be fine if there were some different outcomes. But nothing in Season 3 is actually different so far. The outcome with Hannah was NO DIFFERENT than the outcome with Lou, except that Chuck was even dumber. And we already KNEW Chuck wouldn’t like burning Manoosh because he didn’t like burning the guy in Sandworm–and that guy was psycho. And we know Sarah is attracted to the superhero type, except Shaw can’t hold a candle to Bryce or Cole.

      That has been my point. Other than debasing the characters this year, nothing has been gained in Season 3 except angst and sinking ratings.

      Unless, of course, Season 3 was all about MORGAN and HIS development… 🙂

      • weaselone says:

        Yeah, but in your scenario Sarah isn’t killing the guy because he’s BAD, she’s killing him to get Chuck to pass. Plus, there’s lots of BAD people, but that doesn’t necessarily justify killing them when they’re on their knees begging for their lives.

      • BeCoolBoy says:

        Weaselone, my point is that if he is bad enough for Sarah/Shaw/Beckman to order Chuck to kill him, he SHOULD be killed.

        If you can’t accept that logic, you literally cannot watch the show because then TPTB are killing for sport.

        As for on-your-knees begging, of course that is why Chuck DOESN’T kill him. But we saw Sarah assasinate Mauser for the supposed greater good. It wasn’t pretty (and I didn’t think it was necessary), but he had been painted as a uncontestably bad guy.

        I assume that the guy begging for his life IS a bad guy who deserves to die. Otherwise, the test is a fake. Anyone killing him (later I mean) is a murderer. And even if he is killed by the Ring, then Chuck would still have been given a false choice.

        So you MUST assume the guy chuck is ordered to kill “deserves” it.

        If not, well, then, you really have to stop watching the show.

        Faith, Sarah has to know about the guy because she is the one ordering Chuck to kill him. We see this in the preview.

      • weaselone says:

        Why exactly would we assume that? TPTB haven’t exactly portrayed the US intelligence agencies as innocent angels positioned squarely on the side of righteousness. There is also a strong indication that the government and leadership is hardly infallible and likely Ring ridden. The promo shows the guy on the ground blubbering so he’s not a tough as nails Ring agent. For all we know he’s not even Ring. The guy could just have incriminating information that if pass along to congress could jeopardize the NSA’s black ops funding.

        I’d also like to point out that Casey was ordered to off Chuck at the beginning of season 2. Does that make Chuck BAD?

      • nycfan says:

        AngelTwo,

        “Other than debasing the characters this year, nothing has been gained in Season 3 except angst and sinking ratings.”

        Chuck has grown as a spy and a person. I was rewatching S1 earlier this week, and it is amazing how much he has changed in 3 seasons. This season Chuck left his state of arrested development and chosen a path to follow in his life. We may not like how Chuck is developing as he goes down that path, but that is the choice he made.

        In a way, Sarah’s concerns about him changing represent the audiences concerns. Hopefully when he is through with his metamorphosis from civilian to spy in 3.13 he will have figured out how to he can be both Chuck and Carmichael. At this point not only will Sarah see the guy she loves, but we all will.

        I think the ire many have over the debasement of the character is due to the pain of watching them change and grow. When they show an episode to a focus group, one of things they measure is a character and actor’s likability. Beckman/Bonita score low (as designed), and Chuck/Zach Sarah/Yvonne score high. One problem this season is that the changes we are watching the Chuck and Sarah go through, and the resulting action, are making them less likable right now. I think some people consider that to be debasing the characters, but we will see what happens at or after 3.13.

      • weaselone says:

        But we all not so secretly like the General, just not in the “like to join the General and Condoleezza for cosmo’s” way. She’s still a great character, much as some of the really fantastic villains wouldn’t score highly on the warm and fluffy chart, but certainly were huge draws and fantastic additions to shows.

      • Paul says:

        Weaselone. Chuck being the target of a termination by the US Government was more about the security risks he posed outweighing any benefit of keeping him alive. Remember, even in the real world, spys, assets etc. are ALL considered expendable when it comes down to it. Scorched Earth is painful, but sometimes has to be done for the greater good.

        As far as the assumption that the target is a bad guy thus a legitimate target, I have to agree with angeltwo. We have not seen on this show that “normal” people are targeted for termination by the “good guys”, so it makes sense that he is BAD. Yes, he may have been begging for his life, but if you had say Hitler, Himmler, or Pol Pot in your gunsights, and knowing what they did or were doing and had an opportunity to put an end to it with a single bullet, would you? Moral gray area.

      • weaselone says:

        Knowing what they had done, I would capture them and hold them for trial. The cases against them were pretty strong so there’s no reason for me to play judge, jury and executioner, particularly if there is a risk that I might be mistaking Charlie Chaplain for Adolf Hitler, or terminating one of Sadam’s body doubles. If we’re talking hypothetical sniper with a brief window to take them out, I would probably do so. If we get into knowing how the future turns out, I’d probably refrain from taking the shot in the interest of preserving the time line.

        And the guy being BAD and having him pose a threat to the government is two different things. We have no idea whether this guy is Hitler or some valuable pawn of the ring, coerced into providing intel by threats against his life and his family so the analogy to taking a shot at him is rather silly. I seriously doubt Chuck’s target has launched a global war and begun a program of terminating millions of Jews, Slavs, Gypsies, handicapped people and political opponents.

    • Faith says:

      Well speaking of retreads and to expand on Weaselone’s inspired post…I think a far likelier scenario is revisiting the Mauser incident but only in a reverse fashion.

      Say Chuck does execute the guy but Sarah doesn’t know or realize the grays in the situation just like Chuck didn’t. All he felt and all she will fill is disgust and regret. Add to her current emotional and fragile state it’s the nail in the coffin…goodbye Sarah, hello DC. Which actually makes sense in the “win her back” spoiler in the episode after Final Exam.

      However I for one would hate this scenario. Why? Because although this is the kind of angst I could have lived with, I’m all angst out. I made a joke in the boards today about being kicked when I’m already down (if this scenario were to come about) and someone added stabbed with a pen with it. Hilarious but apt.

      • JC says:

        First off its funny how a post about Casey turned into will Chuck kill or not.

        All of us are thinking Chuck won’t pull the trigger just yet. So what if we’re wrong. No tests like at the beginning of the season. No threatening of Sarah or Ellie. The guy on ground begs for his life and Chuck shoots him. Not saying its going to happen but we’ve all convinced ourselves it won’t happen but what if it does. How would people react to that?

      • atcdave says:

        It is funny the tangents and odd directions we head off sometimes; but I really did mean for this to be a speculation thread, so I’m loving it. I don’t feel like I have a handle on which way they might go. But I’m enjoying the discussion, and look forward to seeing how it plays out. Obviously, I hope it isn’t too dark, I’m tired of dark.

      • JC says:

        The only reason I mentioned it was that we have convinced ourselves of a lot of things that didn’t or would happen. I’m just wondering if we’re setting ourselves up for another group fail.

      • Paul says:

        @JC, I think how it is followed up is more important IMHO than Chuck pulling the trigger. Chuck passing the test is potentially a powerful tool to bring Chuck and Sarah togehter just as it is a potentially powerful wedge to drive them apart, we assume, for good. If Chuck shows no remorse, no hurt, nothing at all, then I think Sarah would not want anything to do with him. If Chuck shows that the act profoundly hurt him, that he is sobered by it, that he now finally the grave repsonsibilities that have been handed to him and that he finally gets the pain and burden that Sarah has had to carry for all of these years, I think that could be a silver lining in a otherwise bad situation.

      • JC says:

        I meant how would viewers react to it. That’s a very big leap for a show like this.

      • Jason says:

        i can’t get interested in tis shooting issue at all, schwartz is running thru the village yelling wolf again (using this issue to wedge CS apart again), I honestly could care less, I feel like I’m watching a really bad warmup act for a concert I came to see, 10 episodes worth so far, the 11th on Monday probably still the warmup act, but the concert IS going to start pretty soon. The shooting issue is really stupid to me anyhow, sarah and casey are in so many shooting scenes, chuck really should be using a gun too, for his own safety as well as those around him.

      • Jason says:

        the one scene that keeps coming back to me regarding shooting was when cole, sarah, and chuck came out of the building and the helicopter attacked, they all were dead if chuck had not given cole the guns, sarah was going to die first, but even the scene in 3.10, sarah shot 3 guys, if they are going to be spies, chuck has got to shoot back,this WH/WH shoot guns could get almost as lame as the WT/WT

      • Paul says:

        @ JC, I have always felt that there was a 3rd option: that Chuck was resolved to do it after some hesitation, was in the act of leveling the gun to pull the trigger, but was beaten to the punch by someone else (at this point for the spec, it doesn’t really matter who). So now we have a Chuck who was resolved to do it, but still has the actual act deferred until a later time.

      • Jason says:

        sick as I am of the shooting issue, I think chuck will pass, I think chuck will not shoot, in 3.13, I think Chuck will be in the same spot as sarah in santa claus with mark sheppard, he will say just like he killed eve from prison after shaw arrested him the first time, he is going to take out sarah, ellie, awesome, and morgan & let chuck rot away, just like he did to shaw …. bam … going to be the reason for doc brown in 3.16

      • Jason says:

        ‘the other guy’ has 3 meanings under my guess, first chuck vs his old self, second, chuck vs sheppard, and third, chuck will shoot where shaw did not (but sarah did)

  10. Paul says:

    Well concerning the Final Exam, I think Chuck will eventually puprosefully kill someone this season…just not yet. The dramatic timing isn’t right. IMHO there is going to be a twist as to him passing the test, but not actually going through with the assassination himself. I think someone else will kill the mark and everyone will think Chuck did it. It could be Sarah, I rather think it would be Casey, but a Ring agent silencing one of their own makes good sense too.

    • BigCheese says:

      Yes, he’ll kill someone after Shaw is gone (314). So they can keep CS without talking again.

      This is getting ridiculous.

      • Paul says:

        Again, you jump to the worst possible conclusion…

      • BigCheese says:

        Give me a positive POV then 😉

      • Paul says:

        Sigh. I have a feeling that anything that I consider “positive” you would not. I think that Chuck will finally kill someone in 3.13 in defense of Sarah. Yeah, cliche, but that is kind of where the storytelling and pacing has been building to. However, instead of destroying him, it actually forces Chuck to realize that there is a time and place for everything, including killing (there will be rammifications down the road, tho, leading him to see a therapist in 3.16). Sarah will realize that Chuck killing someone does not necessarily mean he will lose his “Chuck-ness” (her biggest fear). If anything, it will force Chuck to realize what Sarah had been going through and had sacrificed her entire career as a spy. If anything, it could potentially bring them closer.

      • BigCheese says:

        With Doc Brown it’s a great possibility.

        I’m pretty negative, but I like to consider much of what I say is irony or joke. Don’t take it so seriously.

        However, don’t you think it would be much more exciting for Chuck take a shot? Evil laugh.

      • Jason says:

        sarah shot 3 people in 3.10 covering casey’s back. would sarah not wanted chuck to have a gun to protest casey’s ex and himself, he was sort of lucky to not get shot, of course, they can write every script with him ducking out of the way, but the whole shooting thing is sort of lame, the ‘fools poker’ I described, just another device to keep sarah pi$$ed or give her a reason to not be with chuck, when and if the shooting thing gets resolved, just going to be something else, a new rule if you will

      • Paul says:

        I think you miss the point Jason. Sarah tried to offer Chuck a gun before they tried to rescue Casey. The problem with guns is not with Sarah, it’s with Chuck.

        As far as Sarah being okay killing goons but Chuck not is relatively straight forward. Like Casey, Sarah is a “fallen angel” if you will. Her soul is already blackened. What’s a little bit more blood on her hands compared to what is already on them. Chuck, on the other hand, is clean. And that is what she loves about him. With him, she can sometimes forget the sins she’s committed. He’s also been idealized by her. So anything that threatens that ideal, she is not going to like. And Chuck killing in cold blood would shatter that ideal.

        Again, the whole “Chuck doesn’t like using guns” tread is going to come to a head. But not until the original finale in 3.13. At least IMHO.

      • Jason says:

        paul – i actually miss very little. interesting how we are told WYSIWYG unless it is convenient for a POV to interpret things – gotta pick one – either it is or it isn’t – if you want chuck pure – don’t send him on a mission without any way to defend himself or a civilian – don’t have him burn marks – don’t have him lie about his cover – oh there is that convenient POV again

      • Paul says:

        WYSIWYG???

    • JC says:

      I think most of agree his kill will come at a more dramatic moment. It might be cliche but I think it’ll be in defense of Sarah or possibly Shaw.

      Now if it’s a Ring agent that makes the kill, don’t be surprised if the agent is a woman. Kinda plays into my theory that S/S both went through a Bryce Larkin ordeal.

      • Big Kev says:

        I’ve thought for a while now that he will kill to protect Ellie. JS and CF have described the Chuck/Ellie relationship as “the soul of the show”. Chuck sacrificing par of his soul to protect the greater part of it makes sense to me.
        Sarah is the obvious thought as to when he will kill, but I think the dramatic and symbolic possibilities are much greater if it’s Ellie – assuming it has to happen at all, of course.

    • herder says:

      Paul, I agree with what you say, Chuck shooting someone is coming, but not yet. I can’t see his first kill coming as a result of someone ordering him to, that would be the thing that Sarah fears. I can see him killing someone in defence of Sarah or Ellie, I can even see him in a reverse Mauser situation, if he lets the Ring agent go, they will know to go after Ellie as the daughter of Orion. If handled right it could be very powerful.

  11. BeCoolBoy says:

    I’m surprised no one anywhere has yet mentioned the bloody obvious: TPTB have now literally destroyed Team Bartowski. Casey is gone, Sarah IS going to Washington (Chuck says so in the preview, so her departure at least has been announced somewhere early in the episode) and Chuck is alone.

    It took them 11 episodes to rip up the show. Yet, miraculously, all will be cured in episodes 12 and 13. Chuck will somehow win Sarah and also have Casey reinstated. Two episodes to wipe out 11 and do NOTHING except bring us back to the end of Ring.

    So episode 14 will start where we THOUGHT Ring ended: Chuck as superhero, Chuck and Sarah together, Casey as the stong enforcer. And all it took was 13 episodes of pseudo-drama, Tweener Angst (honest, some weeks it was like watching Lizzie McGuire) and pompous dissertations on love, spying and the danger of two people in love not talking.

    • BigCheese says:

      They wated 13 episodes I already knew, but the B team was destroyed and Chuck alone, not yet, I haven’t seen the 310.

      About: “Chuck the superhero, Chuck and Sarah together,” I’m not sure. Everything I’ve seen this season leads to the opposite direction.

      What makes you believe that CS will be “together”? Maybe I missed it.

      My hope is exhausted…

    • weaselone says:

      Team B all but disappeared the moment Poochie showed up. From then on, it’s been team Poochie unless he’s away on vacation.

  12. Lucian says:

    Killing someone as a part of “test” (which would imply you have the option not to kill them) is morally reprehensible, and it doesn’t matter who is pulling the trigger.

    The right response from Chuck is, “if this is your idea of a test, then I guess I have failed” and then he walks away. I’ll be curious to see if Chuck really is a hero.

    • Paul says:

      This is the CIA we are talking about, not the Boy Scouts. They do things that many would consider “morally reprehensible” on a daily basis, so that good people can live peacefully in blissful denial that there are bad people out there in the world wanting to do them harm.

      • Lucian says:

        I am not suggesting that having to kill someone is the issue. The issue is making it a test. I highly doubt this is a part of the CIA training program.

      • Paul says:

        Well, there are a lot of “spy things” on the show that are kind of made up (like the NSA doing field work) or a part of the spy-fantasy mythology. Suspension of dis-belief is required for these types of shows, even when doing something as ‘realistic’ as a Bourne Identity type of show. And for an organization like the CIA (at least in the context of this show), they have to be absolutely sure that you are able to pull the trigger when the time came. And, unfortunately, the only way to ensure that is to test the agent. Now, the red herring here may be that the whole thing is a very elaborate simulation, designed to test whether or not the agent is willing to pull the trigger (it’s more important that they decide to kill the person than actually do it). Or it could be that they only test agents when there is a legitimate target that needs to be eliminated. I highly doubt, even in this fantasy world, they just pick out a guy at random and tell them to kill him.

    • Waverly says:

      The test is whether he can follow orders, even disagreeable ones. They know he dislikes guns and killing, and because that is part of the job description, they need to test him on that. They could certainly arrange for Chuck to do something that would have been required to be done by another agent anyway.

      And remember that the reason for the test is part of the story of Chuck’s development as a spy. I also doubt that it’s part of a real test. And anyway in real life CIA agents aren’t supposed to be operating on American soil against Americans.

      Of course, we don’t know what tests are really happening in this episode, given the preview. Maybe Beckman only wants to see if he can use a gun, not necessarily to kill. Maybe Sarah changes the test requirements to see whether Chuck has really changed. Maybe Chuck is testing Sarah to see what her reactions are.

      • Lucian says:

        IMO, it is all about suspension of disbelief. If they are going to do something that has huge implications for the story and the characters, it needs to be believable. I’m only willing to suspend my disbelief when it conforms to my definition of good entertainment. It really works in Bourne. Chuck isn’t Bourne. When they try and make it Bourne, it doesn’t work.

    • atcdave says:

      Reality is, people involved in civic or national defense often have to do ugly things to protect the common welfare. But Chuck has been more of a fantasy, at least in the first two seasons it was. My first preference would be no killing by Chuck. The way things have been going, I think its unlikely to work out so neatly; I’m fine with Chuck killing to protect Sarah or Ellie. Either could work for dramatic impact. But I hope its an isolated incident, that may lead to some connection between Chuck and Sarah. I really hope he never kills just to follow orders, and I think its unlikely he will.

      • Jason says:

        but dave, sarah just shot 3 guys in 3.10, it is part of the every day job, I just don’t see how they get around it – chuck should have had a gun in 3.10 to defend himself and his civilian assignment – right?????

      • Waverly says:

        As a wise and respected character once said, “I hate guns, but it pays to know how to use one.”

      • Lucian says:

        Dave- I don’t disagree with you often, but this is one time I do. It irritates the beejeebers (I didn’t want to say crap) out of me that Chuck won’t use a gun, but he is fine with Sarah capping every baddie around. Not particularly heroic IMO. If he wants to be a spy, he needs to carry a gun and he needs to use it when the need requires it.

        I am equally irritated by Sarah thinking it is fine for her to kill anyone she needs to, but if Chuck does it, he is no longer the guy she fell for.

        They both need to grow up.

      • Ernie Davis says:

        But the artificial no-win situation is the very font from which angst flows, so there must be several of those at least.

      • JLR says:

        Thank you for stating that Lucian. That’s a problem I’ve stated vociferously on NBC & ChuckTV before the season started (I was arguing FOR Chuck’s “growth” as a spy at the time). Chuck killing by proxy isn’t, IMHO, any “better” than him actually pulling the trigger.

      • Jason says:

        just for kicks, switch chuck and sarah around in 3.10’s casey mission, and give them the same lines, would we not all (me included) be appalled that chuck ‘offed’ 3 ‘baddies’ with a gun, and equally dumbfoudned that sarah had none to protect the civilian – someone else stated, being a cia spy is not the ‘boy scouts’. I stated elsewhere, I wonder if chuck, sarah, and casey all quit the cia – sarah hates it, casey isn’t even a spy and longer, and sarah won’t let chuck do any spy stuff if he want to do the fun stuff with sarah.

      • weaselone says:

        Even in civic or national defense I don’t believe the issue of capping a defenseless guy blubbering on his knees comes up very often. Even if the guy is a repellent criminal, or enemy combatant he generally isn’t executed on the spot after having surrendered. Intelligence data is prone to errors, so if the guy targeted for elimination surrenders you take him into custody because he could A yield valuable intel, and B you might have actually screwed up and the guy you really wanted was one block over.

      • atcdave says:

        I guess I need to be more clear in what I was saying. I have no moral problem with the gun. I love Sarah being the traditional heroic character who will use whatever mix of brains, brawn, or firepower it takes to finish the job. But I prefer Chuck as a more clever and intellectual hero. Let’s avoid the Kobiyashi Maru scenarios and let Chuck always find a way out, without gunplay. I don’t ascribe any moral value to a gun either way, if bad guys can be stopped with guns, knives, or clever put-downs makes no particular difference to me. I would simply like for Chuck to have his own unique style, and destroying baddies in a way that leaves his superiors and partners sometimes rolling their eyes strikes as all part of the fun. Emphasis on the FUN. I don’t want complex moral grey areas for Chuck. I have a special category for shows like that; I call them “things I don’t watch.”

        I guess, like Sarah, I like a slightly idealized Chuck. Now, I would like to see an end to Sarah’s agonizing over Chuck’s compromises. Sarah needs to be more comfortable that Chuck is still the good guy she fell in love with; just as Chuck had finally become comfortable with what Sarah sometimes had to do by the end of S2.

        OK, fairly long post. Bottom line is, I prefer a non-gun using Chuck for entertainment reasons. I have no moral issues at all with Chuck, or Sarah, or anyone else using firepower.

      • Lucian says:

        I don’t mind angst per se, but at least make it seem somewhat real. Angst that flows from two people who 1) don’t really talk 2) place expectations on the other they don’t place on themselves makes the characters and story less engaging. I am tired of the chronic melodrama. Split them up, bring them together, I don’t really care any more, just move the story in a clear direction.

      • Ernie Davis says:

        Lucian, I agree, I was being a bit sarcastic. All (OK, maybe only the most annoying ones) the main dramatic devices this season are constructed around artificial contradictions and no-win situations. They’re unsure of the other’s feelings/they don’t ever talk being the main one. But since they provide maximum angst they will be flogged till only a spot in the dust where the one trick pony once laid dead remains.

      • Lucian says:

        Ernie, no need to explain. I completely understood the sarcasm in your post.

      • Lucian says:

        If they ever decide to stop digging in the dirt where the charred remains of the pony were buried long ago, some type of fitting memorial would be appropriate (but I’m not sure they have the ability to admit the pony is truly gone).

    • BeCoolBoy says:

      Folks, I hate to beat a dead horse as much as TPTB, but this string is like all of the other strings: We’ve seen it. It’s been done. There are no lessons to be learned. And it’s all about TBTB trying to string out the romantic angst one more time between Chuck and Sarah.

      It’s an epic fail. In the ratings. For a specific large percentage of the fan base that are “shippers.” And for a specific large percentage of the fan base that hates that the Chuck-Sarah angst has overwhelmed the rest of the show’s elements.

      And an urgent reminder that there should be no blank-check “to the ramparts” response from fans to help TPTB secure a Season 4.

      If they want a Season 4–and want our help getting it–it’s got to be with the clear stipulation that they will stop the Chuck-Sarah angst, stop using the same old storylines to heighten that angst and move the show onto new things.

      Really, the Mauser scenario was beaten to death last year, then dumped because it was inconvenient in a post-Super Bowl episode.

      Ooops, I let the cat out of the bag on that, didn’t I? Our let-TPTB-follow-their-muses friends in the fan base didn’t realize TPTB made a concession for such a craven and uncreative reason as there was a heavily promoted post-Super Bowl episode.

      Sorry, Chuck-is-pure-as-TPTB-driven-snow fans, I didn’t mean to spoil it for you. Forget I mentioned it.

  13. Yeefiver says:

    Wow, I couldn’t believe that a discussion about Casey would end up talking about Chuck and Sarah? What a surprise!!
    I also have a small comment regarding Chuck and Sarah but I also would like to say something about Casey. I have read some comments questioning why did Casey use ‘Johnny boy’ when talking to his mom on the phone in “Santa Claus” instead of his real name- Alex? I don’t know if anyone has mentioned this but how do we know that Casey was actually phoning his mom? Could it be that he was phoning Beckman, using code to tell her that the CIA SWAT team was required? Afterall, the CIA Swat team did arrive at the Buy More at the same time Sarah and Casey were being released.

    In regards to Sarah and Chuck. I don’t know if Chuck will or will not kill someone as part of his final exam but I do believe that he eventually will. When he does, Sarah will be the one to console him because of how the two feel about each other non-professionally. No one else except Sarah will be able to relate to Chuck about how it feels to shoot someone dead for the first time. The only other people in Chuck’s circle who has done it before is Casey and I think Casey’s always wanted to shoot and kill. So partly by default but mostly because she loves him, she will be the one to provide the proper sympathy and comfort he will need when the time comes.

    Also, General Beckman’s initial assessment that Sarah was needed to keep the world safe from Chuck in “Pink Slip” was accurate. It did seem that Chuck was going to kill that Ring agent if Sarah hadn’t stopped him. So I was surprised when Sarah agreed with Beckman’s assessment that Chuck seemed ready to go it alone. However, when viewing the scene a few times it seemed she agreed in the context of Chuck being the “perfect” spy.

    • JC says:

      Chuck choking the Ring agent only happened because of the Laudanol, it suppressed all his emotions. Before that he couldn’t flash. I doubt Beckman was worried that Chuck would kill enemy agents, in fact that seems to be what she wants.

      That moment was Sarah’s worst fear. An emotionless killing machine. And that’s why she seemed torn when she called Chuck the “perfect spy”.

      • Paul says:

        Did you catch the irony, and maybe half-veiled sarcasm, when Sarah delivered that line to Beckman?

        I’ve also thought about the “Johnny Boy” line from Santa Claus and agree that it could have been Casey talking code over the phone.

        And who’d of thought that Casey was a shipper… :oP

      • JC says:

        Yep I noticed that plus the gesture she made with her neck and head. I noticed it because I do the same thing when I have do something I don’t like.

  14. Zsjaer says:

    “Chuck doesn’t know the result of exam failure would be his death. Shaw may have his finger on a switch to explode something on Chuck’s person, while we see Sarah slowly drawing her gun and leveling it at Shaw. That could be a better break-up scene than Chuck and Jill! Maybe we even learn later her whole reason for getting close to Shaw was all about protecting Chuck. ”

    Ah that would be very nice to see! a scenario that could give us an emotion similar to what we felt in the previous Seasons and maybe the only thing that could make me recover my admiration to Sarah´s character back..but i know its a impossible scenario unfortunately…we have that french spoiler about Sarah to shed a tear for Shaw in the final episode.
    I hate what they have done to Sarah. To my Sarah… (:

    • Paul says:

      Sarah shed a tear for Shaw, IMHO, because she did consider him at the very least a friend that she could talk to. Shedding a tear over a friend who is leaving (or died) is not a bad thing. I also have a suspicion that Shaw is going to show himself to be a tragic figure who inspires sympathy in the last few eps that he is in. Again, which may play into the ‘shedding of a tear’ thing. OR in the end, Shaw is who finally pushes Sarah to Chuck and she is shedding a tear of gratitude. Again, that simple line can have many possible scenarios.

      • Zsjaer says:

        WEll Paul after Bryce and Chuck i think i m not prepared to see Sarah crying again because of Shaw..Its just not what i want to see..Anyway i didn t said it was a bad thing, only that it makes Dave speculation impossible (:
        Unfortunately Paul, Shaw has to much importance in this Season. Big mistake. I don t want to see Sarah crying for Shaw…their relationship doesn t justify that. With Bryce yep but with Shaw its just to forced.

    • atcdave says:

      I don’t think the shedding a tear line means much at all; except that she doesn’t hate him. I could easily see crying for a doomed friend or tragic hero. Especially since we know, in spite of her best efforts to hide it, Sarah is actually quite sensitive.
      I do agree my suggested scenario is a long shot. But as Zsjaer mentioned, I haven’t been very happy with the handling of Sarah this season and I’m really having a hard time trying to figure how thay can redeem her character.

    • Waverly says:

      I suppose it is unlikely that Sarah sheds tears of joy that Shaw is no longer around….

      We haven’t really seen her reaction to Casey’s involuntary departure. Maybe next episode.

      • amyabn says:

        My tears will be tears of joy that Shaw is no longer around! What a waste of airtime and plot development.

      • JLR says:

        And how… I actually had a lot of hope for the Shaw character. What a bust… He’s more or less the new leading man, and contributes very little. Can’t wait for the fast & furious Shaw montage that serves as an adieu to him…

      • Ernie Davis says:

        It would have been interesting if they’d brought Cole back to train Chuck and as Sarah’s second chance PLI. Cole was someone who had confidence in Chuck and liked him. He had Chuck’s trust, he knew Chuck’s intersect secret, and worked well with the team. And he’d have made a believable competitor for Sarah’s affections.

        Plus he was a fleshed out character who we understood, and some of us even liked him in the end.

      • atcdave says:

        I sort of agree Ernie, of course in context of I think this was all a bad idea. Bryce would have been the best alternate solution. I think Cole would have generated a lot of fan tension before he even emerged (as did Shaw, really), but in the end he was a stronger character and might have made this all easier to swallow.

      • Merve says:

        In my opinion, the best alternate solution would have been a better-written Shaw, one who wasn’t full of contradictions and inconsistencies. Maybe it would have been better if Shaw weren’t a love interest. Then we wouldn’t have the problem of the Shaw from “Operation Awesome,” “First Class,” and “Beard” being a completely different character from the Shaw from “Mask” and “Fake Name.” Furthermore, the show could have then continued with the “Shaw is a controversial superspy” angle.

      • Ernie Davis says:

        Yes, assuming you accept this direction Bryce was, sadly, ideal. The pre-established connection with both Chuck and Sarah, the tension with Casey, the strain on Chuck and Bryce’s friendship and Bryce’s difficulty pushing Chuck in a direction he didn’t want to see Chuck go, all these things would have made for great dramatic possibilities and intense angst if that was what they were shooting for. Unfortunately we’d all be screaming why aren’t we over this whole Bryce triangle if TPTB did that, and they probably killed Bryce because they correctly saw fans wouldn’t stand for another trip to that well. But was what we got any less soap operaish?

      • AngelTwo says:

        Well, ultimately, judging from the synopsis of e13, I guess they are leading up to the fact that Shaw is nuts. I always had a feeling the character was a callback to unlovable Raymond Shaw, the Manchurian Candidate.

        And it looks like lizjames’ con theory is at least part right: It seems as if they are setting up to tell us that Sarah was “sacrificing” to protect Chuck and that’s why she got next to Shaw.

        And this all probably means that it is Shaw who offs the begging man in Chuck’s final exam. That’ll make him certifiably crazy for all to see.

        Meanwhile, anyone notice that Chuck “misspoke” himself on the phone with Awesome when he was looking for help in Beard? He said “Sarah is falling for another guy” as part of his litany of woes. But he had specifically told Awesome in Angel of Death that his relationship with Sarah was always a cover.

        Now, obviously, the writers were doing Chuck’s laundry list to set up his angst, but they largely avoided those kind of continuity errors in Season 2. Which is just another reason why it is vastly better than Season 3. Season 2 was simply better written, edited and arc-ed (if there is such a word)…

      • AngelTwo says:

        BTW, much as I don’t like TPTB and the decisions they’ve made, using Bryce was never a decision they COULD make. The actor, Matt Bomer, was commited to another show. In fact, there has been some speculation that Bryce was the original choice of character for the episodes that became Beefcake and Lethal Weapon, too. But he wasn’t available then, either.

      • herder says:

        I think that a big part of the problem with this round of PLI’s is the length that it is running. In the past two years it would usually be there for an episode then cleared up in the next. This year they decided to really draw it out, it really started in 3.07, peaked in 3.08, was there in 3.09 & 3.10 and apparantly will still be there in at least 3.11 with no resolution until 3.12 at the earliest.

        We were prepared for the existance of this plot device last summer, in the fall it was hinted that it might go on for a couple of episodes, but I don’t think that anyone expected it to go on so long. Six episodes out of a thirteen episode season, especially where two of those other seven had the very harsh and downer breakup, seems excessive. I think that plays into how this arc has been received. I don’t think that it would have been well received if it had been Bryce or Cole Barker either. It might not have been so poorly received, but it’s sheer length would likely have caused problems regardless of who the guy was.

      • weaselone says:

        It’s the PLI/LI that never ends. I wonder if show has added growth rings?

      • atcdave says:

        There are problems with using Bryce in place of either Cole or Shaw (non-availability of Matthew Bomer, Bryce is now dead; little things like that) my main thought in suggesting him is just that he has a believable history established with the famously reserved Sarah. The Cole or Shaw arcs would have had to be extensively re-worked (or is it un-re-worked? if we believe the original master plan called for Bryce to be around longer) for Bryce. Simply plugging in Bryce instead of Shaw would have really felt like a broken record. But at least it would have been a better acted, more believable broken record. Perhaps we would have seen a return of Bryce as a mentor and foil for Chuck; but the only romantic angst would have been in Chuck’s own head when he occasionally had cause to feel inferior in Bryce’s presence.

        You all know my first choice would be not to use this sort of device at all. The “spy team” dynamic would remain centered on Chuck/Sarah/Casey. Maximize the screen time and interplay of the three leads. Chuck would still have many of the same growth and learning issues to deal with; but Sarah would be his primary guide in the process (as she was in S1 and S2) while Casey would provide the occasional counterpoint; and keep them on edge as they pursue a secret relationship. But I’m sure TPTB are wise and my approach would have NEVER worked.

      • AngelTwo says:

        That’s why it’s absurd to say TPTB have a five-year plan and they know exactly what they are doing. They didn’t plan to have Harry Tang go to Hawaii, but they were losing CS Lee to Dexter. Bomer got White Collar, so there went Bryce.

        So whenever one of the knee-jerk defenders of this season say it was always in the plan, I say baloney.

        And I’m actually pretty sure they NEVER had such a fast Chuck-Sarah thing planned for Season 1. The original pilot had a brunette love interest for Chuck (he wasn’t very good at getting her, either…). But when she was dropped, the Chuck-Sarah thing popped up. Add the Levi-Strahovski chemistry and off to the races.

        So again we come back to the basics: Why push PLIs for the third consecutive year; why take the Levi-Strahovski chemistry off the screen; why make Shaw a spymaster and a Love Interest.

        All mistakes. And depending on how Chuck bounces back in the ratings, potentially fatal.

      • AngelTwo says:

        By the way, atcdave, you are absolutely right. The secret affair thing would have been hilarious. Just think of Angel of Death. Awesome is stunned to find out the relationship was never real. And Chuck says it’s their job to convince people like him that they were real. And, all the while, this year they would be going with a secret relationship. It would have been hilarious. Hiding, denying and, outwardly, maybe not even being friendly.

        And if you don’t think it could have worked, go back to Hill Street Blues. They went half a season with the phony “I hate you” cover between the defense attorney and the station captain. Meanwhile, they were living a secret love life. It made for great tension. Could have worked to great effect for Chuck, too.

        And, come to think about it. I miss the Orange Orange. It was interesting to see the Sarah character playing her cover once in a while.

      • weaselone says:

        Actually, if I remember correctly the brunette and Sarah were originally both supposed to be love interests for Chuck with him being repeatedly drawn into and pushed away from their respective orbits by his circumstance and I’d assume their and his actions. Think of Chuck as the human equivalent of a ping pong ball.

      • atcdave says:

        Yeah Angeltwo, I do remember Hill Street Blues, exactly the sort of thing that would have worked here.

        You know I don’t actually mean to defend the many bad decisions made this year; but I do think its only fair to mention the conflict between a five year plan and the realities of television. It can be very hard to retain the services of an actor used in a limited capacity; especially if they are any good. How many show’s have been upended by the comings and goings of key players?

        I know a little about the storied production of Babylon 5, and man did they have issues! It was meant to be a tightly scripted 5 season “TV novel”. The original star (Michael O’Hare) was found wanting by TPTB and was replaced by a better actor (Bruce Boxleitner). The transition was clumsy. Several casting changes were made during the run of the show due to contract disputes, that lead to several themes being dropped or neglected. And most epic of all, the show was cancelled just into S4, which lead to rushed resolution of major arcs that year. Only to get an unexpected renewal in the off season; which lead to S5 being one long epilogue.

        I guess my point is, even if they have a clear five year plan things can happen to really mess it up. I think loosing CS Lee and Matthew Bomer would be in that category. I also think certain aspects of the Chuck/Sarah relationship are in that category too; first is the chemistry they have is intoxicating. No matter how much TPTB may want it go slow, what we see on screen screams more, more! second is; I think they may have sped up the pacing a bit late in S2 when they thought they might get canned. But now they make the huge mistake by going backwards to get back on their earlier schedule, which leads to our current discontent.

        Wow, sorry that got so long. And to think, I mainly just wanted to agree with you!

      • AngelTwo says:

        Weaselone: That isn’t indicated in the 12/06 Pilot script I read. In that script, the Kayla character isn’t even aware that Chuck is interested in her. He sort of looks longingly at her across the courtyard and even unwittingly drives her to a date with another guy.

        atcdave: We DO agree, completely. My point is that there ARE no such thing as five-year plans in TV. That’s why anyone who thinks Season 3 was part of the plan is kidding themselves. I only hear see-know-evil defenders claiming this was all part of the plan.

  15. weaselone says:

    erm. Shaw, not show.

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