Shaw’s Evil Plan, Part 6

Well,  I think this is officially the last time I can use that title.    My  purpose here is to launch the next round of speculative posts about where things are heading.   We’ve had a lot of spoilers from a lot of sources,  but still know painfully little about how things will actually happen.   So don’t be afraid to post something that will make you look really stupid in just a few days time,  I know I’m the master of being wrong.

Shaw himself now seems to be mostly nuts,  and driven mainly by the need for revenge.   Sarah may be the last of the main characters to see it;  I would be seriously surprised if she ends up being the one who’s right about him.   The two main theories floating around seem to be either Chuck kills Shaw to save Sarah;  or Sarah kills Shaw to save Chuck.   I’m leaning towards Sarah doing the killing,  it fits nicely with the shot we saw of her crying in the previews,  and it keeps Chuck from having to do any actual killing, yet.   Casey made such a big deal of Chuck not being wired that way,  so they are forcing our awareness of this aspect of Chuck;  of course Casey can be right or wrong on this point and still deliver some emotional impact,  I’m just hoping he’s right.

There is still the possibility of something else happening.   Shaw could die a hero (or suicidal head case) in bringing down the Ring.   He also could yet survive as either a hero or villain;  although I think surviving as a hero is the least likely of all possibilities at this point.   If,  on the off chance,  Eve survived her supposed death scene,  Shaw and Eve may finish the arc as new baddies for the end of the season (there are some rumors about Routh being in 3.19;  of course flashbacks are always a possibility).

My thought for the end game is Shaw tries to kill Chuck so Sarah will know the pain he experienced,  and Sarah has to kill Shaw.

So what will the situation be as we enter the back part of the season?   There are few issues to be resolved.   How will Casey get back in the game?   It could be a simple as the new intersect/agent chooses Casey as a permanent part of his team,  and forces Beckman to accommodate him.   Of course we know Casey is a man of action all the way through,  he just prove himself to TPTB through his own actions.   The latter is my guess.

The new agent Bartowski was supposed to quit the Nerd Herd cover and be assigned to Rome.   We know this will never happen.   I can only see two scenarios for Chuck remaining in his old life in Burbank.   First is that LA is such a nest of Ring activity and international intrigue Beckman decides to let him remain there as his base of operations (or perhaps he insists on keeping it as his home base).  The second possibility is that Chuck is downgraded after his failure in the Red Test is discovered and goes back to some sort of asset or “junior agent” status.   Both of these solutions seem weak to me,  if anyone has any better ideas I would love to hear it.  It even begs the question,  how will Chuck come to decide to remain in the spy life?   It may come back to a “greater good” situation again;  Chuck has special skills that make him particularly useful as an agent,  it seems consistent with his character to accept the higher calling.   Especially if its suggested any other option will result in his death.   Perhaps,  at the end of 3.13,  Chuck (and Sarah) will be allowed a week or two to think things over (again),  or perhaps they will try to run at the end of 3.13.   My money is on vacation.

There are still a few questions where Sarah is concerned too.   At the end of American Hero she was ready again to leave the spy life to run off with Chuck.   Barring that,  she was scheduled to report to DC for a new duty.   Perhaps it will be as simple as accepting an assignment as Chuck’s partner.   But given her struggles and issues through much of this season,  they have to pay some attention to the idea of Sarah staying in the field.   The easiest answer is that maybe,  just knowing Chuck was willing to leave it all behind for her was enough.   And now she’s ready to face life with a partner who will sacrifice anything for her.  Combine that with Chuck retaining enough of his core character and values to still be “the guy”, perhaps that’s all we’ll ever get.   But I do suspect some of these issues will be regurgitated at least one more time.

Some other burning issues.   Devon and Ellie apparently are really leaving home.  Does this mean they are leaving the show?   Or perhaps their role will simply be diminished further and we’ll only see them occasionally from here on out.   Will Morgan ever leave the Buy More?   I know its been hinted at,  but I strongly suspect not.  There were some rumors about a return of Anna in the back six.   I would love to see it if she returns as a regular;  otherwise,  I wish they would leave that alone  (um,  not that anyone asked).   We were told there would be a significant death at seasons end;  my money is on Orion,  but at this point,  its so far out I don’t really have a good read on it.  I only say Orion because he’s important to the characters and history of the show;  killing him would have great emotional, but little practical impact on the show (kind of like Bryce).

The last thing I wanted to address was what big “game changers” we would see in 3.19.   I believe we’ve heard there would be two.   One may be the character death,  but probably not if its Orion.   The most obvious change I can think of is Chuck and Sarah getting engaged.   If they actually do get engaged at any point prior to 3.19,  I will change my prediction to Chuck and Sarah getting married (3.19 is called Chuck vs. The Ring, Part II;  which really may suggest a wedding or engagement).   They may even rush it if Ellie and Devon are leaving the country,  which might be one of the game changers in its own right.   Some people have suggested issues with the intersect as one of the game changers.   I’ve seen the idea a few times that it could be killing Chuck;  or that Sarah may get intersected too.   I don’t buy into either of these,  but I’ve been wrong before.   An upgrade or another deletion are possibilities,  as is a “dark intersect” agent of some sort (Shaw maybe?).

I obviously don’t have strong opinions about a lot of these (shocking, isn’t it?).   I look forward to reading wild speculation the next few days;  it’ll be fun to see if any of us come close.   I better end this post now,  its getting to be as long as one of Ernie’s…

– Dave


About atcDave

I'm 54 years old and live in Ypsilanti, Michigan. I'm happily married to Jodie. I've been an air traffic controller for 31 years; grew up in the Chicago area, and am still a fanatic for pizza and the Chicago Bears. My main interest is military history, and my related hobbies include scale model building and strategy games.
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240 Responses to Shaw’s Evil Plan, Part 6

  1. sd says:

    Hi Dave…

    This is something goofy I supposed in the American Hero Post. Someone had mentioned The Manchurian Candidate…and I ran with it. Remember, in the movie the character’s name is also Shaw. Was Shaw “activated” when the phone rang in the hospital?

    I have long suspected the end-game with the intersect is that it ain’t right in anyone’s head…including Chuck’s. I think there may be some medical/psychological issues brought to bare at some point. That may be the reason for the “throw away” line about Ellie’s fellowship in neurology…especially since she was in cardio in earlier seasons.

    Anyway…it is my hope the silliness of PLIs is now officially over.

    • atcdave says:

      Funny SD, I replied to you on the other thread too. The Manchurian Candidate is a possibility; I could see it leading to Shaw’s heroic death as he struggles to overcome his “programming.” I lean towards saying his motivation for revenge is strong enough to Get Shaw in all sorts of trouble without a hostile influence at all, but the phone call is interesting.

      I think some more problems with the intersect itself is a likely story at some point. I would love to see Ellie get involved as Chuck’s personal intersect “mechanic” following the death of their father. But, I think the more emotional story of Ellie being the last person who thinks Chuck is living a “normal” life is how they are more likely to go. Maybe in a couple seasons, we’ll see Chuck having to reveal all to Ellie to get her medical help, but I think that really would be a long term set-up.

    • Chuckaddict says:

      I like the Manchurian Candidate theory. To add to it, Shaw in his attempt to overcome the programming, kills himself, thus dying a hero. The deep level of treachery exposed about the Ring convinces Chuck and Sarah they need to stay in the field and bring down the Ring.

      Does anyone have any thoughts about what the Ring is actually planning? It’s jsut this myterious cloud of evil, maybe that’s all it’s supposed to be…

      I think the flash-bang sequence is going to re-emerge. Why was it that Chuck was able to recover so much quicker than the Ring agent? It seems to tie nicely with Ellie’s neurology fellowship and Orion’s return.

      My money is also on Orion being killed at the end of the back 6. Emotional loss, but not really affecting the direction of the show.

      • atcdave says:

        I haven’t seen any speculation yet on what the Ring is actually up to. Sadly, they aren’t a very interesting group so far.

      • Lucian says:

        I’m in agreement with your thinking. It seems important to the showrunners that Shaw is fundamentally a good guy and would have made a great “life partner” for Sarah. I don’t think either Chuck or Sarah will kill him.

      • Merve says:

        My speculation about the Ring is that they’re bent on world domination. Why else would they care about some small dictatorship in the Caribbean? Dave, I agree that they haven’t been very interesting so far. They do seem more dangerous than Fulcrum, but I have difficulty seeing them as more than some nebulous group of evildoers. To be honest, I don’t really care what the Ring is up to as long as they continue to provide a steady stream of interesting bad guys and convenient spy plots.

      • atcdave says:

        You know, that’s actually a pretty good point. The Ring may not need a specific nefarious plan. I remember talking to Amyabn about this a couple weeks ago; the spy plots are so subordinated to the character stories in this show, its like they exist just to provide a frame for the character and relationship aspects of the show. Even Specter never really had an all-encompassing evil scheme, they simply provided an unending stream of villians with their own nasty plans in the first dozen Bond films. Perhaps The Ring will never be vanquished; like KAOS it simply be an ongoing foil for our protagonists.

    • weaselone says:

      I don’t necessarily think that Shaw needs to have been brain washed, rather the Ring’s control of Shaw could be exerted solely through the knowledge they possess regarding his wife. It may be the treachery and suffering the Ring causes in this manner that convinces Sarah and Chuck that it’s worth giving up or at least postponing their dream of a normal life in order to combat the organizations and prevent them from destroying future Shaw and Eve’s and manipulating future Sarah’s into doing their dirty work.

      • JLR says:

        I actually hope Shaw’s tragedy does play a role in C/S choosing to remain spies. I want him to have some sort of impact on their motivations b/c I don’t want to look at the entire arc as merely a romantic roadblock. So, on a certain level, I want to believe in the creative team again. The whole C/S romance sub-plot was very dissatisfying to me; I hope the Shaw sub-plot is redeemed in some way.

      • Crumby says:

        I agree JLR. Especially regarding what they’ve done to Sarah…

    • joe says:

      I really like the Manchurian candidate idea too, SD. Gee – the last time I saw that movie was – what…? 25 years ago? I barely remember it.

      But the idea is part of our collective conscious, I think. If it works out that way, then the Shaw character actually can serve the story better than it has so far.

      And also, since we’re speculating, that could be the tie to the “Doc. Brown” character that’s coming.

  2. Zsjaer says:

    If Chuck or Sarah are going to shot Shaw for some reason i also think Sarah will be the you say it is consistent with her crying…but what if Shaw dies as a hero and actually is Shaw who saves Sarah or Chuck from a imminent death and Sarah is crying because of that?
    Shaw dying as a hero is a strong possibilitie too

    • joe says:

      Yeah, it is. But I’ll tell you, Z. One of the most frustrating things for me of the entire season is Shaw’s split personality. Is he a hero, or is he a psycho? He’s been arguably both and neither.

      If he dies a hero after kidnapping Sarah, I too will scream bloody murder, if only because the headache I’ve gotten thinking about Shaw is killing me!

      • Joe!I do see in ep.13 that Casey being reinstated back on team B because he’s a hunter,and Chuck will need his help to save Sarah.

        Don’t be suprise if Shaw tries to kill Chuck to make her feel the same pain he is feeling she will have to kill Shaw. Sarah has said it many of times Chuck I’m not going to let no one hurt you.

        they will put a dent into the Ring but in ep.19 it will be the return of the Ring where I believe orion will be killed and C/S will not get engaged.

        Right now Sarah has been manipulated by Shaw the whole time and used Chuck,Casey and Gen.Beckman in the process to get his revenge on the Ring who is controling Shaw to kill Sarah.

        ep.13 will be something special.

      • joe says:

        Bernard, after all the fine speculations today, and with the promos we’ve seen, I have a feeling this is very close.

        Oh – and 3.13 will be something special.

  3. Jason says:

    think of each team B mission as being directed by the ring thru shaw, shaw does not know he is even being used:

    3.5 get the disks to shaw
    3.6 get the portable intersect (not sure why yet?)
    3.6 while solo shaw puts the disks into play (his next sibliminal instructions)
    3.7.1 get the gas from the mask
    3.7.2 use the gas to brainwash sarah
    3.8 deflect suspicion from shaw, use sarah to distract chuck
    3.9 get shaw the next disks
    3.10 get casey fired
    3.10 shaw puts next set of instructions into play
    3.11 promote chuck to get him out of the way
    3.11 get video to shaw to activate him
    3.12 continue 3.11
    3.12 at the end activate shaw
    3.13 final mission, shaw has to be to assassinate someone?

    if accurate, shaw killed eve?
    mrs iselin = shaws mom, chucks mom, beckman, or the head of the ring maybe ?????
    frank sinatra role = chuck
    a bit of a stretch, but sarah is janet leigh (yvonne’s equal in her day?)
    assassinate who ???? – the president, general beckman, chuck’s dad, the ring leader, really not many great choices?

    I’m going to say the head of the ring is mrs iselman, and she wants general beckman dead, in the end, shaw kills the head of the ring, in the movie, shaw kills himself as well?

    • Chuckaddict says:

      Wow, excellent post. Very intersting. That would actually make this season make sence…

    • joe says:

      And what if your “someone” in 3.13 is the agent who killed Eve, Sarah?

      Is she big enough potatoes for the ring?

      • Jason says:

        in the manchruian candidate, shaw is supposed to kill the presidential candidate, ends up killing his mother (who was his handler) and vice president step father, shaw then turns the gun on himself. In the movie, shaw earlier killed his own wife on his handlers orders. So I suppose shaw could ‘look’ like he is going to kill sarah to the bitter end, then move the gun (how it is done in the movie) to mark sheppard at the last possible moment. Routh is playing the role eerily similar to how the 1962 movie shaw was played, his step father had a line about him “what is he a mute?” on first meeting.

    • Crumby says:

      I haven’t seen the movie. But if it was true. Wouldn’t that be incredibly bad? I mean it would giv ea sense to what we’ve seen, and I’m all about that. But this arc would just be a remake then.
      I hope they have a satisfying explanation for this arc which is also a little original.

  4. HenryH says:

    You know, all this Manchurian Candidate stuff is just fine, but…

    How do we know Eve Shaw is dead? I mean, they specifically had Sarah say she was going to go back to check…but didn’t. Could it be that Eve Shaw is still alive?

    Also, anyone want to extrapolate a link: Sarah and Bryce. Bryce died a hero after it was learned he WASN’T a traitor. Shaw and Shaw, well…

    • joe says:

      The writers have been so ambiguous about so many things this season, it’s quite possible. What they have to do is not make it seem ridiculous when we finally find out.

      I’m sure it was their intent to keep is guessing until the last minute.

    • Paul says:

      With this show, the simplest answers typically are the right ones. I think Eve is dead. I think the kernal of doubt (Sarah not being able to confirm) was meant to feed into her guilt and doubt that she did the right thing. What if she had killed an innocent, unarmed woman? She could’t check so she’d never know for sure all of these years.

  5. JC says:

    I wouldn’t be surprised if Team B became some sort off the grid group that only answered to Beckman.

    As for Shaw, I think he’s being used by both sides. Beckman doesn’t seem shocked that Eve was “killed” by the CIA, just that Sarah did it. Chuck in the promo flashes on something about Shaw, so I’m guessing it has to do with a mission or something that was done to him.

    • herder says:

      Remember there is a mole that presumably set up Eve Shaw to be killed by Sarah. What is to say that the same mole hasn’t been influencing some of the missions for the purpose of some nefarious plot that they seem to be basing around Shaw. It could be aimed at the intersect, it could be aimed at Sarah or at something that we haven’t thought of. But I do think that we will find out that a lot of their missions have been dual purpose.

      • josh says:

        doesn’t explain why the Ring tried to kill Shaw on 2 occasions though.

        As to Chuck’s flash, it’s about Operation Windsor Knight, make contact with S upon arrival in Moscow. There was a screenshot of it somewhere I forget where

      • herder says:

        Both times there were attempts to kill Shaw there were also leaks to take counter measures. The first time, with Sidney, they turned it into a training mission for Chuck. The second time with Rafe, they were tipped off as to his presence and captured him.

        In the Mask, the Ring killed the guy for knowing that Shaw was alive, evidence that a plan was afoot. In the Beard they mysteriously didn’t try to kill him when he was a sitting duck, again evidence of a plan centred on Shaw.

      • JC says:

        That’s interesting, so was Eve’s mission to get close to Shaw? They knew he was “sleeper” or double agent and she was sent to keep tabs on him. They really fell in love, so Eve became a liability to the CIA and that’s why her hit was ordered.

    • josh says:

      I think the reason why they kept him alive in Beard was explained by the presence of the video. They saw him with Sarah, they got the video and knew they could control him with it, instead of killing him. At least that seems the most likely theory to me.

      Anyways, I just don’t think they will go down the everything you ‘ve seen this season was setup. I don’t know, it just sounds a bit too complicated for Chuck (the show). But then again I could easily be wrong 🙂

    • joe says:

      Sorry I’m so late to this discussion.
      When I ponder over possible themes for S4, presumably when Chuck and Sarah are finally comfortable with each other (and themselves), this idea becomes key.

      Team B, all three of them now, needs to be free of the dark side of the spy world, but still sanctioned to deal with the evil they encounter. Being off the grid enables that!

      Here’s a what-if. What if Beckman also loses her command, or at least part of her authority because of Shaw, and needs to operate at least partly off the books herself?

      • That’s some good speculation Joe! I can see that too.If Beckman loses her command because she let Shaw takes over Team B for his own agenda.

        Maybe Team B could operate outside the goverment off the books.

      • joe says:

        I think it would fun, BG, but I’d actually be a bit surprised. If this were to happen, Beckman would have to get a lot more air time than I ever remember her getting before.

        The idea sort of reminded me of a much better version of the A-Team, actually. 😉

      • atcdave says:

        Yeah, I was thinking A-Team too. It certainly could be fun, but I seriously doubt they will go that way.

  6. Fake Empire says:

    I am torn over who pulls the trigger, but for some reason I have trouble seeing Sarah as the one who does it. The promo appears to lean in that direction, but promos specialize in misdirection. I think that either Chuck pulls the trigger to save Sarah, or Casey shoots Shaw and is restored to good graces as a hero and reinstated.

    • Paul says:

      FE, just had a thought. Based on the reply below by Ryan, and the pic of Chuck holding a gun to Shaw’s back, Shaw may have intially attacked Sarah and knocked her down/out. He is going to finish her off when Chuck pulls the gun and tells him to stop. Shaw attacks Chuck, because Chuck couldn’t pull the trigger. They fight, but Shaw has psycho strength and overpowers Chuck. Sarah in the meanwhile comes to picks up her gun and right before Shaw finishes Chuck off, kills Shaw. Cue her tears.

      • Fake Empire says:

        Hey Paul, you and Ryan could very well be right. I am terrible at seeing the future, or else I would move to Vegas and make a lucrative living. 😉

        IMHO, TPTB will finally make proper use of the term “epic” in this episode. Sarah killing Shaw would fit into standards that are already established, and thus not be “epic,” but cliche. Therefore, I tend to think that Chuck will pull the trigger in order to save Sarah. This would be highly emotional and would mark a huge milestone in Chuck’s development as a spy. It would also fit another theme that has been present in S3: deconstruction – both of deeply established character traits (see: Sarah and Casey) and timelines (see: ret-con). We know Chuck is loathe toward shooting anyone, but I believe that will be deconstructed because he would do it to save Sarah, IMHO.

        As an “epic” plan B, I would put Casey at pulling the trigger and being reinstated. But then again, maybe I need to revise my definition of “epic” because TPTB and I might look at it differently. I tend to look at it on a grander scale. Perhaps I should use it in a new context: “I was in the frozen foods section the other day and found an epic bargain on Ben and Jerry’s.” or “My new haircut is epic!” 😉

        Looking forward to seeing how the plot unfolds . . .

      • Zsjaer says:

        Paul in that scenario why would Sarah cry? i don t want to see Sarah crying because she had to shot Shaw..specially when he was trying to kill her and Chuck if that scenario is to happen (:
        If it is Chuck who kills Shaw…Sarah is crying because of Chuck or because Shaw died? hum i have the feeling Sarah crying has nothing to do with any of this scenarios and instead is about Shaw´s sacrifice or something that concerns only Shaw (:

      • atcdave says:

        Given the way Sarah treated Chuck in most of S3, I can think of a lot of reasons why she might be crying.

      • joe says:

        Z, it’s also possible that Sarah is crying because she had to kill again.

        Casey called her “a killer”, when he told he Chuck wasn’t. I still want to believe that she hates that about herself, and her crying is not at all about Shaw dying.

      • Paul says:

        Z, depending on who does the killing, Sarah crying could be from a lot of different reasons.

        I think an underlying one is that she is crying because Shaw died and she did have some feelings for him (even if they were friendship and affection not love). He was driven nutso by his obssession, so he’s not necessarilly a “bad guy” in that regards.

        If Chuck had to kill Shaw, then she’s crying because the man she loves had just done someting very painful and he did it for her.

        If Sarah had to kill Shaw, then it could be she is sad she had to kill again, and because it WAS Shaw, someone she cared about. Plus the realization that she now killed the husband as well as the wife.

      • Crumby says:

        Yes I really think she could be crying for Shaw. Whether he gets shot or not. She does care about him. That and the guilt form killing his wife, I think she’s gonna try to “save” him somehow. That’s why “she has faith he’s ready for the mission”. I don’t think it’s just about thinking he can do this, it’s also that she wants to think he can do this.

        Complete speculation though…

  7. Ryan says:

    there was one nanosecond clip that caught my eye in the promo, it looks like what I believe is sarah’s hand lying motionless on the ground, you can see her watch and the red sweater she was wearing, I usually would just wait it out, and not speculate but I’m thinking she gets shot or stabbed, and i think that part in the promo where chuck’s going in for a kiss, Sarah might be wearing a hospital gown. Just speculation, but would like to get someone elses take on it.

    • atcdave says:

      That’s something I hadn’t thought of at all. There has been some speculation about a bit of a time jump at the end of this episode or early in 3.14. If Sarah is hurt, it would allow for a natural break for recovery.

    • HenryH says:

      Ryan- has screencaps of the promo. It’s clearly a hotel room, not a hospital room. And Sarah looks to be wearing one of Chuck’s shirt…

      • Ryan says:

        ok, i have no problem conceding that point, but i would still like some more opinions on the other point with her hand lying motionless, I could just being reading to much into a half second of the promo, but who’s kidding, speculating is fun.

      • SWnerd says:

        When I saw the split second hand shot, I was thinking torture. Like someone’s maybe getting ready to cut some fingers off or something. That’s probably not right at all, but that’s where my mind first went.

      • josh says:

        The whole bed setting looks too ornate to be a hospital room. The hand though is definitely Sarah so I m thinking she gets knocked out at some point. I doubt she ‘ll get hurt this episode she has ummm other duties to fulfill near the end :p

  8. amyabn says:

    I think we will get essentially a three act show.
    Act 1: Chuck goes after Sarah and Shaw. They talk Shaw down. Sarah feels horrible. They do a re-enactment and realize something is off. Chuck convinces Sarah that she isn’t a bad person, and snaps her back into Agent Walker mode.
    Act 2: The three are reunited (as spelled out in the episode description) and go after the Ring. Something EPIC will happen (sorry-couldn’t resist 😉 )
    Act 3: Sarah and Chuck finally talk (bed scene). Well, let’s hope it’s more than talk! 😉

    I think the phone call Shaw got was directions to where he is supposed to take Sarah. If he just found out about Sarah being Eve’s shooter (notice I used shooter, not killer), he wouldn’t have a pre-destined spot picked out to go through with whatever he has cooked up for Sarah.
    I’m wondering what place that is. It has to have significance or Chuck won’t be able to find it.

    Curious use of Morgan as Casey’s Alfred. “Go to the closet and get my suit.”

    I just hope Shaw is dead by someone’s hand at the end of this episode. What a drag his character has been.
    Speculation over!

    • sd says:

      I think the “get me my suit” line is going to be the best line of the ep.

      • BeCoolBoy says:

        Boy, I really hope “I love you, Chuck” from Sarah is the best line of the ep.

      • amyabn says:

        I think Casey and Morgan have a nice friendship starting. Casey isn’t as annoyed with Chuck anymore, and enter Morgan! It would be funny if they ended up roommates if/when Sarah moves in with Chuck.

    • Gord says:

      The get my suit line brings another possibility. Casey kills Shaw. We all know that Casey likes to dress before a kill(First date – he puts on the suit to go kill Chuck in the first half of the show.)

    • Crumby says:

      I don’t think they will have to “talk Shaw down” early in the episode. I don’t believe he’s “kidnapping” Sarah. It just appeared that way. Nothing is as it seems ;). But Chuck will probably think that Sarah is in danger.

      If they want to sell us that Shaw is the perfect guy for Sarah in some alternate reality, then it doesn’t really make sense to make him a bad guy. Not right away anyway. If he turned out evil I think it would be because the Ring will try to manipulate him, and because he’s blinded by revenge.

      In Final Exam, Sarah has told him how she felt about that kill. He knows her motivations and her remorse. We also know that Shaw has no problem with the concept of red test. I would even say he believes in it. The problem here is either the person who order the red test or the mole responsible for it. Unless Eve was Ring and the government knew and ordered her assassination but nobody has told Shaw…

      I think Shaw needs Sarah because he wants the Ring to think they got him. Or something like that.

      I do think Sarah will feel horrible: guilty about killing his wife and betrayed by the use of her red test for evil. I hope they took that opportunity to discuss Sarah’s feelings and behavior.
      She will support Shaw when Chuck will doubt his emotional stability. Not only because of her guilt but because the Ring is destructing everything she has believed in. They manipulated her on the worst day of her life. It’s gotta be source of resentment somehow. I think Chuck will be the only one thinking straight here!

      • Jason says:

        in the manchurian candidate, the ‘chuck’ role (played by frank sinatra) was the only one thinking straight too, although manchurian ended with shaw choosing to kill the bad guy standing right next to the target, then turning his gun on himself (which would be cause of sarah to cry?) – sinatra just arrives a moment too late to save the day in that one

      • Jason says:

        one other repeat of the Manchurian theory, but shaw shot his wife in that movie, while under orders to kill someone else (he did not remember doing it). Shaw’s handler in the movie was his own mother, who was the character he shot at the movie’s climax, so chuck obviously has to play out somewhat different.

      • Crumby says:

        I haven’t seen the movie. I’m really curious about it now. I think I’ll try to watch it before Monday!

    • Zsjaer says:

      When will we know what was that line about in ep 2 from Beckman “Shaw we have to tell them, they must know” or something like this? got be next episode..i think

      • Crumby says:

        Could that just has been about Awesome?

      • Zsjaer says:

        Well at the time i thought it was something very important…if it isnt mentioned in the next episode maybe they have added that scene later for something related to the storyline of the back 6 episodes..problems with the Intersect something like that.
        Ot its just a plot hole or bad writing i don t know

    • amyabn! Shaw and eve both were Ring Agents.Sarah kills Eve.Remember Shaw was to be killed too at the time that Eve was but he survived.

      The Ring is using Shaw who is now a member of the Ring to kill Sarah,Casey,and Chuck.

  9. Gabbo says:

    What have I missed? Why does everyone think Shaw is going to die this episode?

    • amyabn says:

      I think it is just wishful thinking. Completely and finally eliminate the WT/WT with a worthless guest star in one fail swoop.

    • atcdave says:

      Yeah, we’re mainly hopeful. I think its unlikely he would be allowed to just ride off into the sunset as a hero; if he survives its as a new villain. I think the revenge motive is a classic set-up for a doomed character; either he gets his revenge and is destroyed in the process, or he is driven mad and has be killed by the good guys.

      • JLR says:

        One potential “positive” of keeping Shaw alive as a “not a villain” is that it makes Sarah’s choice of Chuck more definitive…..maybe? Kinda reaching here, as I am still kind of on the fence WRT how that was handled. I know I’m in the minority, which is fine by me!:)

      • Merve says:

        I agree, JLR. I feel as if making Shaw evil outright might partially invalidate Sarah’s choice. (But to be fair, she wasn’t aware of Shaw’s instability at the time that she made her choice.)

      • JLR says:

        Yep Merve, your point is well-taken. I admit my proposal is made on the basis that I didn’t find the C/S resolution as clean as most of you (call me a stick-in-the-mud, I guess). Something like keeping Shaw alive, and NOT one of the bad guys makes it easier for me to believe Sarah’s choice was made for the “right” reasons, not compelled by circumstance. It’s a totally selfish desire…

      • JC says:

        I was pretty positive about it but I still have this little feeling we haven’t seen the last gasp of angst just yet.

      • Crumby says:

        To also be fair. Chuck didn’t exactly choose Sarah over Jill. Jill chose for him by being Fulcrum.

      • JLR says:

        Yep Crumby, you are absolutely correct, and I don’t think any spinning can make it otherwise. But that’s why I wanted this particular resolution/choice to be crystal clear. To the vast majority of people it was, but for some of us (again, very few) there is a shadow of doubt. I’ll admit I may be carrying a grudge, and that could be coloring my perception, but I believe this creative team could have come up w/ a way to make it a slam dunk for even the most cynical of viewer if they wanted to.

      • Crumby says:

        JLR I agree there is definitely “a shadow of doubt”. I believe Sarah was going to Chuck when Shaw intercepted her, but when she choose and why are unclear.

        I hope will see a sort of mirror scene of Chuck’s ILY. I don’t really know if Sarah is capable of that right now, she’s better with actions than words, especially with Chuck.

        She’s never talked about herself and her past with Chuck, not really. He’s never been abble to get some answers out of her when Shaw could. I want that to be addressed.

      • JC says:


        I think you might be victim of your own prediction, the extremely forced S/S romance throughout the episode. It left a bitter taste to the episode.

        Watch the Ellie/ Chuck scene and then the Sarah/Casey one. I think that’s what they were going for. Casey was her Ellie in a sense. Was it too subtle probably but I think we really haven’t seen the real C/S moment yet.

        But don’t get me wrong I’m not trying to change your opinion. I can see how people would see it how you did.

      • JLR says:

        Yeah, that’s possible JC, and I’m intellectually honest enough to admit like I did above that my bias might be affecting by perception as well. I also failed to consider your final point: perhaps the “true” resolution hasn’t happened yet. I’m obviously kind of hung up on it, but TBH, I am more glad it all appears to be over. It’s just not as interesting to agree w/ everyone when I don’t actually feel that way! 🙂

      • JC says:

        No worries I’m just as biased as you. I just don’t think its over yet.

        As for my “true” C/S resolution idea, Chuck still doesn’t know who she picked. So last moment of angst incoming.

      • Merve says:

        I think that any last bit of angst will be dealt with relatively quickly (not necessarily early on in the episode, but a huge deal won’t be made of it). There’s probably going to be a lot going on in the episode; there won’t be much time to string out the angst.

  10. Ernie Davis says:

    Poochie must die on the trip back to his home planet, then Schwedak can submit a sworn affidavit that he will never be brought back to life.

    • BeCoolBoy says:

      He can’t go back to his home planet. Krypton was destroyed… 🙂

      And I don’t know why you’d feel the need to ask for an affidavit from Sedwedak. The said we’d reached the point of no return at Colonel. And they were as good as their word, weren’t they.

      Okay, about that last part…

      • Ernie Davis says:

        The affidavit was a Simpson’s reference to the way Krusty the Clown handled the original Poochie.

      • BeCoolBoy says:

        I know. 🙂 I was facetiously suggesting that we wouldn’t need that given the great faith we all have in TPTB…

  11. Merve says:

    Dave, if I were you, I’d rename this post “Shaw’s Evil Playing-it-by-Ear.” I’m not sure that Shaw is even mentally stable enough to have a plan aside from revenge.

    Now, on to crazy speculation about the upcoming episode:
    I think that Shaw might try to use Sarah as bait to lure out the Ring. Chuck will find them before then and force Shaw to adopt a different strategy. (Actually, I think that Chuck will want Shaw out of the picture, but Sarah will talk Chuck out of it and let Shaw participate as long as Shaw follows a different strategy than using her as bait.) Then a whole bunch of crazy spy stuff will happen. (I don’t want to elaborate because I literally have no clue what’s going to happen.) In the end, Shaw might show signs of instability again, and Chuck drawing a gun on him might just be a way of getting him not to do something incredibly stupid or dangerous, but I don’t think that Shaw is going to end up evil or dead. I think that he might end up captured by the Ring. Other possibilities include him being reassigned or fired.

    To address what might happen after “Other Guy”:
    – I think that the reason Chuck doesn’t go to Rome is that information about the operation is leaked to the Ring (probably through no fault of Chuck, Sarah or Shaw, but because of a random mole). That way, the entire operation will be blown and Chuck can volunteer to head up counter-Ring operations in Los Angeles.

    – We know that Devon and Ellie, barring some act of God, are heading to Africa. I don’t think that they’ll be staying for long, though. We know that Chuck has to see a psychiatrist in 3.16. My guess is that Chuck and Sarah somehow end up in Africa in 3.15, and that Chuck has to kill someone in order to save Ellie’s and/or Devon’s lives/life. Ellie and Devon, realizing how dangerous Africa is, would return home. I think that this would also nicely set up the “Do you love me?” scene. Chuck would be asking Sarah if she still loved him, despite the fact that he had had to take someone’s life.

    – My guess for the significant death: Orion. If I had to make a second, wild guess, I’d say Big Mike, possibly from cardiac arrest. (It would set Morgan up to be running the show at the Buy More in subsequent seasons.)

    – The two big game-changing twists are harder to figure out. I’d go with Ellie finding out about Chuck’s spy life and Chuck and Sarah becoming engaged, but those hardly seem like huge twists. In fact, both those could might happen and they might not even be the twists that Josh Schwartz had in mind. Other possible twists: Casey decides to take another shot at life with Kathleen; Ellie is pregnant; Sarah is pregnant; Anna is pregnant; the Buy More is bombed to smithereens; Chuck and Sarah quit the spy life; Ellie gets intersected; Sarah gets intersected; Casey gets intersected; the Intersect is slowly killing Chuck’s brain; Chuck’s mother is involved with the Ring; Chuck and Sarah are related because they have the same mother (ewww…); Shaw comes back for revenge against Chuck and Sarah; the entirety of the first 3 seasons was a dream. (Okay, that last one was a joke, but you never know…)

    I’m really pumped for the rest of this season.

    • joe says:

      I’ll say! Except for the Buy More getting bombed, that all sounds possible, Merve. Or did you mean that the Buy Morons get bombed??? 😉

      I’d hate to see Mark Christopher Lawrence leave the show, but Morgan taking over the BM is a great idea.

    • atcdave says:

      Excellent post Merve! That was almost as much fun as an actual episode!

      I stuck with the “Shaw’s Evil Plan” title mainly out of tradition. I agree, I’m not sure he even knows what he’s doing right now. I don’t think they’ll do the “captured” thing, unless its a cover for “turned traitor.” Your Devon and Ellie in Africa scenario is interesting and appealing, I like how you worked the DYLM line into it; that all seems plausable. Have you actually seen anything that leads you to these conclusions or is it just pure guesswork?
      Your possible game changers are quite a shopping list, I wish I’d been so creative in the first place.

      • Merve says:

        My proposed Devon/Ellie scenario is mainly guesswork, but I have heard rumours that the “Do you love me?” scene is in the back 6. The reason I think that Chuck will kill to save Devon or Ellie’s life and not Sarah’s is because Chuck would be killing to save the life of someone who he loves, but Sarah wouldn’t feel as responsible. It’s a nice way to set up some drama without going back to the same source of angst that dominated “Final Exam.”

        On second thought Dave, I agree with you about Shaw. I don’t think that Shaw will be captured, if only because Chuck and Sarah would then probably be tasked with rescuing him. I’m leaning more and more towards him being reassigned or temporarily suspended and being forced to consult a psychiatrist. Heck, they could even make that person the same psychiatrist who Chuck has to go see in 3.16.

        As for exactly what’s going to happen in “Other Guy,” I have no freaking clue. I find it interesting that it’s easier to speculate about the back six than it is to speculate about the upcoming episode. TPTB have kept an even tighter lid on this one than on the actual season finale. Almost all the speculation sounds really cool, and (*fingers crossed*) the way that they’ve set this up, it would be hard to mess up. I think that unless Shaw is revealed to be a cyborg or something ridiculous like that, I’m really going to enjoy next Monday’s episode. Plus, Chris Fedak wrote it, so even though he hasn’t written any of my most favourite Chuck episodes, he has such a knack for blending action and comedy together that I always have a good time watching the episodes he wrote.

        Man, speculation is fun.

      • atcdave says:

        Your reasoning on them not wanting to re-use a particular brand of angst seems flawed, but otherwise it seems like a solid theory.

        I do agree about the difficulty of knowing anything about The Other Guy; its fairly opaque. I do expect it to be fun. I think Fedak has been responsible for some my favorite, and least favorite, moments in the series; but you’re right about his sense of action and humor. He’s often been heavy handed with the relationship, but I believe this is meant to be a pay-off episode, so I’m not too worried.

      • Merve says:

        You’re right, Dave. Chuck does tend to rehash stuff that’s been done before, but when TPTB do that, they usually offer a fresh perspective on it. (The handling of dangerous assets in “Sandworm” versus “Nacho Sampler” comes mind as a good example.) If they do go the “Chuck kills to save Sarah” route, I hope that Sarah doesn’t see it the same way as she did the red test. I also hope that they don’t go the “Santa Claus” route and have Chuck lie to her about it.

    • Anonymous says:

      Please don’t intersect casey! Wow, just stop and imagine that.

  12. HenryH says:

    E14 is where Chuck and Sarah run away and run instead into a spy ring, thus realizing that they have to be spies.

    E15 they get their dopplegangers shown to them and they rethink the spy life.

    E16 they are in couples therapy becasue they can’t decide whether they are spies are not.

    E17 is when Casey gets with his finance and daughter (Hello, Chuck versus the Living Dead)

    E18 is apparently where Orion first returns.

    E19. Chuck and Sarah get married (game changer 1) and Orion dies from the ill effects of the first-gen Intersect in his head. Luckily, Ellie, the heart surgeon turned neurosurgeon de-intersects Chuck (game changer 2). And now “normal” Chuck and Sarah have to decide whether they stay spies.

    • HenryH says:

      Oh, buy the way. More boring stuff about The Ring happens. But TPTB think it’s epic.

    • John says:

      I would be willing to bet money that in Ep 19 Chuck and Sarah either get engaged or married. TPTB love their double meanings.

      You are not the first person to take the Ellie’s Chekov’s specialization change to its logical conclusion. I mean it makes no sense neurosurgery would have anything to do with the intersect but so long as whatever happens is cool I am fine with it.

    • Paul says:

      I like your ideas Henry. Here are my takes:

      3.14) C/S run, but get dragged back into espionage kicking and screaming. They decide that they can’t turn their backs on this world as they can do a lot of good for the world.

      3.15) Meant to show C/S that being a real couple and being spies is not mutually exclusive. They can have both, but it takes work.

      3.16) Chuck dealing with the fallout of 3.13. Sarah dealing with her emotional issues since childhood.

      3.17) I agree this may be about Casey confronting his past

      3.18/3.19) Orion returns. There is an issue with the intersect that he has to address. C/S MAY get engaged.

      • amyabn says:

        I hope that:
        3.14 has them on vacation and they eloped (which they may question later-good source of angst) when they get pulled in to a scenario on the train because Chuck flashed

        3.15 Agree. It would also ease the tension if they are questioning their getting married situation

        3.16 Agree.

        3.17 Agree

        3.18/3.19 Orion is back, having problems because of the Intersect. Ellie gets brought in. Orion got her the fellowship, she needs to take up the Bartowski mantel and prevent what is happening to dad from happening to Chuck; Chuck and Sarah have the church wedding so all can participate.

        A girl can hope, right?

      • atcdave says:

        I had really always thought Ellie finding out would be one of the last things to happen in the series, but now I am wondering about the significance of the neuro-surgery thing. Maybe she has a classified project working on the health risks of the Intersect without realizing her patient is Chuck.

      • herder says:

        I like your speculation Amy, I think that one of the things that American Hero did was allow us to look forward optimistically about the show.

  13. joe says:

    Great post, Dave.
    Man, I hope Orion/Stephen doesn’t buy it – I like him too much. An engagement is a much happier thought (and after The American Hero I could use that.

    What I see is that the season 3.0 revolved around one question: if Chuck has to decide between being a spy and Sarah, which does he choose?
    Of course, he chooses both. I’m really hoping to see that he wins both in 3.13, or at least, he looks to be on the verge of that. Shaw is his last obstacle.

  14. Gord says:

    You know I have seen several people pick Orion for the significant death.

    That does make sense for two reasons. While siginificant, the show can still operate well without him. Also, Orion has died several times, so just because Orion dies doesn’t mean he wont be coming back.

    • Paul says:

      I think Orion makes the most sense if they want to keep the integrity of the show for a S4. However, if they REALLY want to shake it up, I think having Morgan die would drastically change the show dynamic.

  15. Faith says:

    Wow that was a lot of thoughts Dave, most words ever for you? haha. I like how Ernie’s posts lengths are like the running joke around here…kinda like Jeff and stalking 😉

    I’ll try to opine on some of them:

    I think Chuck goes back to Burbank and the Buy More a real spy. But here’s the game changer, he can’t flash. Something went wrong with the intersect, it wasn’t removed per say but it’s gone. Now what? We’re not exactly back to S1 territory because he’s really grown and essentially GB is correct, they have spent the last 3 years training him for this…and so it shall be. I’d be very interested in seeing how they get around this, if it does happen.

    Vacation definitely. Aside from the fact that the CIA will refuse to let assets/agents this good there’s also the question of the future. Although Chuck did say that being a spy is meaningless without Sarah (my heart warmed at that line) it is nonetheless his dream and after not having a 10 year plan, much less a 5 year plan I think she’ll give it to him. However just like wives of police officers, the worry will always be in the back of the mind.

    Casey gets back 3.13 IMO. He does something, they do something to get him reinstated. I think it comes down to Chuck choosing his team frankly, GB can’t say a word. And here’s the funny side note…Morgan goes too lol.

    Finally, Ellie and Awesome. I don’t think they’re written off. I think American Hero proved how valuable Ellie is as a cast member, above Morgan in my estimation. But I do think that the budget will dictate once again her and Awesome being used sparingly. DWB will be a good excuse, as well as a good plot point. Still we know she and Devon comes back eventually with PapaB.

    • JLR says:

      I think they may be laying the groundwork for some of your spec Faith. I mentioned it in the episode thread, but I’m guessing others don’t see much significance, but Chuck did say to himself, “Huh, didn’t even need to flash” when he shot the first (solo) Ring agent w/ the tranq gun in the hallway of the underground facility. I know a few have asked whether it’s possible some of the intersect skills can be retained by Chuck w/out the need for flashing. A deeper question for me, maybe he has latent skills that are merely recalled by flashing?

  16. Waverly says:

    After watching the preview a couple of times, I think Shaw isn’t as crazy as folks are making him out to be.

    First, Shaw gets called by the Ring leader right after he wakes up at the hospital. Obviously the Ring is monitoring him continuously. Shaw is invited to meet the Director at some remote underground location, and he grabs Sarah for backup.

    They get split up and Sarah sees the video of her red test, and gets the information that she killed Eve Shaw. Daniel Shaw arrives and talks with a shocked Sarah. But this is another “dead end”, because the Director isn’t there again.

    Meanwhile Chuck has somehow tracked them down (probably not Jeff and Lester, but maybe Shaw’s “smart” car) and leads a team in to rescue Shaw and Sarah. No doubt Chuck gets the wrong idea when he sees Shaw and Sarah in a tender moment, since he hadn’t talked with Sarah since being stood up at the surprisingly empty Union Station.

    But they get some clues for where the Director is — in the NSA (DNI?) building in Washington DC. Shaw wants to confront the Director right away. Sarah thinks that’s crazy. Chuck doesn’t know what to do (he can’t trust Beckman, obviously), so he asks for Casey’s advice and help, which he offers and he agrees to join. Partly out of desperation Shaw again acquiesces to Chuck’s plea to let Casey rejoin the team informally.

    The four of them fly to DC. On the flight Chuck flashes on Shaw’s wedding ring that he hadn’t seen before. Now Chuck is uncertain of Shaw’s loyalty.

    They manage to corner the Director on the elevator, but it’s a trap, and Chuck has to use his Intersect skills to escape by manipulating the elevator to cause some bad guys to fall down the elevator shaft.

    But Shaw knows where the Director will be dining the next day, so they set up their own trap at the restaurant. Shaw and Sarah are diners, Chuck is a waiter, and Casey is the cavalry in the van. Again the Director is one step ahead of them.

    The Director’s henchmen misdirect Sarah to lead her away briefly, so that the Director can reveal to Shaw that Eve Shaw was a Ring agent and that it was Shaw himself who gave the CIA the information needed to identify and kill that agent, whom Daniel did not realize was actually Eve. Furthermore the Director claims that Chuck is also a Ring agent who is supposed to take Daniel’s place as the lead agent in the government’s pursuit of the Ring.

    Sarah senses they needs to get back to Shaw in the restaurant, but it’s too late. Shaw has decided to take preventive action against the Ring by killing Chuck, but having been disarmed only has recourse to a knife with which to attack Chuck. Chuck will not kill Shaw, even to save himself, so Sarah has to shoot Shaw.

    • atcdave says:

      Wow Waverly! Have you ever tried your hand at fan fiction? That was pretty thorough. I’m going to guess your accuracy will be poor, but that’s the price of being specific! I still hesitate to be sure of much more than commercials.

      • Gabbo says:

        Speaking of commercials, has anyone seen the Norton software spot, the Bank of Nicholai, running online during e12 at Hilarious.

      • Waverly says:

        Nah, I’m no good at telling stories.

        I was just trying to come up with something that accounted for everything that was shown in the preview, and that seemed to fit the sensibilities of the show runners/writers.

        At first I tried to get Shaw to be completely heroic, but based on his fighting Chuck, that wasn’t feasible. The next best thing was him being sufficiently angry (“mad”) about Eve that he could temporarily believe the Director’s lies about Chuck.

  17. John B says:

    I thought it was said somewhere that after the shaw character arc, Daniel and Chuck will ‘stay connected.’

    If so, doesn’t this logically imply that Shaw can’t die?

    • atcdave says:

      I saw that spoiler, and I’m honestly not sure what it means. Its been suggested they are found to be half-brothers; otherwise I don’t know. Maybe it just means Shaw motivates Chuck (and Sarah) to remain in the spy business.

      I don’t think it means Shaw must survive. Some sort of legacy/experience/promise could outlive the character.

    • Paul says:

      Not necessarily. If Shaw is Chuck’s first real kill, then the shadow of Shaw will always be with Chuck. Hence, they stay connected.

    • JC says:

      I’ve always thought that, just like how Sarah’s first kill haunted her. But it would be odd if Chuck killed Shaw and Sarah killed Eve. I don’t know how that would play out.

      • Waverly says:

        Hey, maybe they could be a new Bonnie & Clyde, on the run! Just kidding. Don’t know why what you suggested made me think of that movie.

      • JLR says:

        ^^^ Funny, I was just thinking along the lines of Billy Joe (Chuck) & Bobbie Sue (Sarah)running, and Billy Mack (Gen. Beckman, if she suruvives ep. 13) chasing them down. I love me some “classic rock” like Steve Miller Band…

  18. Gabbo says:

    I wonder if “The Other Guy” is a callback to Sarah’s “How many times do you have to be a hero before you realize that you are that guy?” line in Ring. Chuck talked about they guy he was at the BuyMore when he met Sarah during his restaurant pitch in American Hero. So I wonder if (besides some other guy involved in the spy plot), the other guy is Chuck and Sarah talking about which guy he is now, which one she loves, if he wants to be the other guy (not a spy) again, etc.

    We might actually get some real conversation between Chuck and Sarah. Be still my heart….

  19. HenryH says:

    Anybody have an over/under on whether Sarah says anything remotely like “I love you” to Chuck?

    • Faith says:

      I’ll put it under 3.19, and over 3.13…I’m guessing around 3.14 the latest.

      • JC says:

        3.13 it has to be. Look at Chuck’s face at the end when he gets the call from Beckman. He thinks Sarah went with Shaw.

      • Paul says:

        JC, I took that look from Chuck more as concern for Sarah’s safety than “OMFG she just chose to be with Shaw”.

      • JC says:

        At the end after Beckman showed him the footage, I agree. But at the train station he thought she chose Shaw. Maybe they won’t play that card but this Chuck so it wouldn’t surprise me.

    • atcdave says:

      I think we’ll probably hear it in 3.13; or not too long after.

  20. Paul says:

    Dave, nice thoughts. Regarding Chuck and Sarah, I think that they will mutually decide that 3.13 is their last mission and they run at the end of the episode…only to be involuntarily sucked back into the spy world in 3.14. The infamous French spoilers allude to no one knowing where C/S are and Beckman having to resort to using Casey and Morgan to track them down. I believe 3.14 ends with C/S realizing that running is selfish and that they can do the world a lot of good by staying spies. I think 3.15 is there to show them that being spies and being a real couple is not mutually exclusive. I think Casey will be reinstated at the end of 3.14 as a condition of C/S staying spies (something along the lines of if you want us, you have to take all of us).

    • Jason says:

      how (if) they stay spies will be an interesting part of the back 6, sort of funny that casey has become the ultimate chipper, but the way general beckman came around her desk to chuck and gave chuck a week ‘off’, that in lots of ways was a shipper move to me too, I think you hit 3.14/3.15 right paul, I’m also guessing beckman is going to facilitate things, rather than resist – should make for a fun story either way

      • Paul says:

        My thought has always been that this is Beckman’s best team. In many regards, they kind of hold the advatage over her. She NEEDS them, the don’t need her. So Beckman cuts them a lot of slack in some regards.

    • Waverly says:

      Given the “epic” emotional trauma that Sarah goes through in 3.13, she asks for and receives some time off, which allow both Sarah and Chuck to go traveling. That’s with Beckman’s permission, but it’s ambiguous whether Sarah and Chuck are truly running away forever or not.

      But some important event intervenes, requiring Sarah and Chuck to be called back from their “vacation”. Meanwhile, the train ride in Spain happens.

  21. Stef62 says:

    Has anyone have any idea where the clip of Shaw fighting Casey will appear. I’m guessing the back 6 cause of the way they were dressed.

    It was in the post olympic promo if you remember

    • Paul says:

      I don’t think that was Shaw fighting Casey, but Shaw fighting Ring baddies. I think that will come into play next eps.

  22. Stef62 says:

    On the screen caps of ep13’s trailer. When you see Sarah crying, is that a hint of white collar you can see at the bottom of the picture.

    If so, then she may be crying at the very end of ep13

  23. sd says:

    Someone in an earlier post suggested that S/C will be on the “run” in ep 14 and are reeled back in by Beckman and Casey.

    That make sense…perhaps that “flash” in the 3.13 promo of S/C on the bed is them agreeing to bolt…

    • Paul says:

      I speculated this. But I don’t think it’s so much they get reeled back in than they realize that running away from being spies is selfish and that they could do a lot of good as spies. I think the “mission” on the train in 3.14 helps them to realize this and they come back willingly…but on their terms.

      • Mike B says:

        I think the fight scene we saw in the post olympic promo with Sarah and Chuck fighting together ala Sarah and Bryce in season 1 will be in ep 14 and make them realize that they are to good a team to just walk away.

      • atcdave says:

        I’m actually glad we haven’t seen it yet, I would have hated to see them do something as intimate as fighting together while the Sham was ongoing.

      • JLR says:

        ^^ Would’ve kind of soiled it some way….I agree.

  24. Jason says:

    anyone have proof that shaw is back in 3.19, or is it all speculation?

    • Crumby says:

      I haven’t read any proof, just rumors that he’s been seen on the set. Could be just visiting…

    • atcdave says:

      I’ve heard Routh and Levi are good pals, so a simple set visit would make some sense; I think its really hard to have surprise guest stars because of SAG rules about pay and contracts. But we have heard inconsistant things about exactly how many episodes Routh is in. I’m really hoping he’s completely done; baring that, maybe just a flashback scene.

      And for the record, I’m more opposed to his return because he mucks up the screen time and chemistry of the whole cast; I don’t see him ever as a romantic rival again.

      • Waverly says:

        I bet after we’ve had time to review the whole season, we’ll see that Routh was actually a pretty good choice for the role.

        The problem was that that role wasn’t the best for the overall story.

      • atcdave says:

        I do agree Waverly. For me, there is no one they could have cast to make that part work. I do find it amusing though, that many who are more “open minded” than I have not enjoyed the character or his arc either.

      • Merve says:

        Dave, I agree with you on the casting issue. There is no actor on the planet talented enough to make a character with so many inherent contradictions, such as Shaw, work in such a short span of time. I think that by “Final Exam,” Routh had a pretty good handle on the role, but unfortunately it took until then for me to see him as both a believable spy and love interest. I don’t really blame that on Routh. I mean, next to Levi and Strahovski, pretty much anyone with such a large role is going to look silly, but I think that my problem with Shaw stems from the complete lack of transition in his character between “First Class” and “Mask.” I’m not confident that we’ll ever get a satisfactory reason for him to be suddenly attracted to Sarah other than “wow she’s really hot.”

  25. Jason says:

    I think the desert ‘kidnapping’, the promo, the french spoilers (saying 3.13 takes place in france), and the official synopsis are very hard to reconcile taken all together.

    There will be lots of action to cover for sure, if CS have sex in 3.13’s middle somewhere, it would seem to a certain extent to be anticlimatic (bad word), except of course I guess if it were to start to happen as the ‘cliffhanger’, but the promo almost looked like the next morning.

    I would have to speculate that unless shaw takes sarah straight off to a facility in paris, that the ‘kidnapping’ part in the california desert will have to get over in 10 minutes of show time? confusing to me at least?

    • Waverly says:

      Huh? The French spoilers were about 3.14, not 3.13.

      But even if 3.13 does happen partly in France, the preview does show Chuck in an airplane.

      Yes, the California desert action will be short. I gave my complete episode summary speculation above.

  26. DaveB says:

    Check out the CityTV preview for 3.13. Shaw says “You killed my wife, did you think I’d be OK with that?”

    Da da da dum…

    • Paul says:

      But why did he use THAT instead of someting else…?

      • JC says:

        Probably because she isn’t the real target of his vengeance but someone she cares about.

      • Crumby says:

        Or the ring wants something from her.

      • Jason says:

        shaw is bringing Sarah in, she is the secret mole, her assignment was to make the intersect as miserable as possible since 3.1, she defected at the beginning of 3.1 cause chuck pi$$ed her off, she now will take her rightful spot as a director of the ring, chuck will unwittingly rescue her, and she will play him as a romantic mark until 3.19, when all is revealed

      • Paul says:

        Meh…should have just gotten Jeff to give him some choloroform… 🙂

      • BeCoolBoy says:

        Okay, new rule. No letting Jason post stuff like this. TPTB may be listening and steal his brilliantly angsty ideas. 🙂

        Seriously, Jason, that’s scary brilliant. Let’s hope no one is listening…

      • Paul says:

        Meh…already did that on Battlestar Galactica…kinda… 😛

      • Jason says:

        so you don’t like my season 4 idea, papa B removes the intersect, causes chuck amnesia, doctor david b chipendale prescribes no sarah time while chuck recovers, instead his brunette nurse brings chuck back to health while doctor chippendale fills sarah’s dance card – this stuff is not hard at all to write – it takes talent to write real relationship stuff!

      • Zsjaer says:

        At this time i don t want Shaw to be evil..dang i still hope he isn t.

  27. farfromsane says:

    Just viewed the CityTV promo.. oh my looks like Chuck may get his first kill saving the love of his life..

    • sd says:

      did u go frame by frame?

      I didn’t see that

      • Josh says:

        Check Sarah’s back in that scene with the red coat, there’s something there that should point you to what’s going on 🙂

      • sd says:

        **CTV Spoiler Comment**

        Okay, Josh, got it…but maybe I’m dense…how does that end up meaning Chuck may get his first kill?

        The shipper in me was actually more interested in the fact that Sarah kissed Chuck instead of the other way around…maybe these two crazy kids will get together in 3.13

      • Paul says:

        @SD – what does that thing that shouldn’t be there mean? And that is what Josh is referring to and getting at.

      • Josh says:

        sd i don’t want to get into too much detail, not everybody wants to watch the promo, but just think what affect that thing on Sarah’s back has on people that get one of those things. Logical assumption is somebody has to step in and save the day.

      • JC says:

        Chuck come out and play

      • Paul says:


      • Merve says:

        A little off topic, but CTV and CityTV are completely different Canadian television networks, just so you know.

      • JC says:

        We’ve never seen Chuck flash when he’s been in a very good place emotionally with Sarah. We could be in for another Tic Tac in regards to flashing on multiple things at once.

      • Crumby says:

        Sarah would not be his spinach but his Laudanol pill. 😉

  28. Josh says:

    The Canadian promo is up for anybody interested. It is not as spoilery as past promos

    • Josh says:

      yeah, after rewatching, it’s VERY spoilery, disregard my previous comment

    • Jason says:

      i would guess the outfit sarah has on during the kiss to be somewhat a spoiler? hard to figure how all this will fit in one ep?

      • Josh says:

        yeah it is very spoilery, we see the answer to that nagging question 🙂

        To be honest, combining NBC and CityTV promos, I m having trouble figuring out how they will fit all that in 1 episode

      • JC says:

        Guess a certain question is asked.

      • Jason says:

        I think this early release of info will be really good for ratings?? I just hope TPTB don’t screw up the end???

      • Paul says:

        @Josh – you ain’t kidding! It’s going to be a jam-packed episode. If it’s lean on the fluff they MIGHT get it all in… 🙂

    • Crumby says:

      Gotta say I’m excited! This episode seems dense!

      • DaveB says:

        Dense…Um, haven’t we been saying that about TPTB all along?

      • Crumby says:

        DaveB I’m not English isn’t my first language so don’t read to much into my words! I just try to make myself comprehensible to all of you guys but I’m not good with words…

      • atcdave says:

        Crumby, most of us would have never guessed you weren’t primarily an English speaker; you use the language very well. And the double meaning of dense is perfect; we all enjoyed the comment!

      • Crumby says:

        Thanks for that Dave 😉 !

      • Paul says:

        Crumby, your English is fine. I understood what you meant by “dense” right off the bat.

      • joe says:

        I’ll second what Dave and Paul said, Crumby. Your comments have always been well written and well received too. I can tell!

        So what’s all this about not being good with words? You are! 😉

    • Waverly says:

      Maybe it’s just an April Fool’s joke.

      BTW, try the new TEXTP resolution on YouTube.

    • Merve says:

      That promo is kind of silly. Why would they end the promo with the part about Morgan quitting?

      • atcdave says:

        Because its the intended season ending cliff-hanger!

      • John says:

        Maybe we are supposed to believe that Morgan is going off with Chuck to Rome or something.

      • Waverly says:

        I actually thought that was the most surprising thing revealed by that preview.

      • Merve says:

        Now that you mention it, Waverly, that would be very surprising if you hadn’t read the official NBC synopsis of the episode.

      • Paul says:

        Another possibility is that the Casey asking for his suit scene means he’s going to confront Beckman and demand to be reinstated. And Morgan is offered an analyst/asset position. Thus why he said he was offered a “real job”.

      • Waverly says:

        I doubt that Beckman knows about Morgan, other than in passing references to Chuck. Given his lack of skills for the job, why would Beckman give him any consideration?

        But Chuck would, so maybe Morgan could be a subcontractor, working personally for Chuck.

  29. weaselone says:

    Nuts. I was going to avoid the Canadian promo and it’s being quoted. Now it’s like the moth being drawn to the flame.

  30. Crumby says:

    I just re-watched a few scenes from American Hero. When Ellie told Awesome they could go to Africa, I didn’t pay much attention to her words before but she said:
    “That was the hospital. I didn’t even have to ask. Out of the blue, they just offered me a sabbatical. I have a year off.”

    What’s that all about? Out of the blue? Someone wants to send Ellie away or that’s just me being paranoid?

  31. Gabbo says:

    If we extrapolate the NBC and CityTV promos, there are TWO Chuck/Sarah romance scenes. In the NBC promo, Chuck is wearing a grey shirt and Sarah seems to be wearing his white waiter’s shirt over her own nightwear. In the CityTV promo, which seems to be an extension of the earlier revealed DYLM moment, Chuck is wearing a white T shirt.


    Also, wasn’t it Darth Razorback who claimed that DYLM moment was in the back six? Guees he was wrong again.

  32. AngelTwo says:

    This will be be an interesting episode to watch from the creative standpoint, especially now we know the DYLM moment is followed up with a kiss.

    That means that Fedak has a mountain to climb to make this work. After all, all of the viewers (even the casual ones) know that Sarah loves Chuck and was running to him. So they KNOW the answer is yes.

    So what does Fedak write to make it work and pay it off? I don’t mean for us crazy fans. For the average viewers.

    Gonna be quite interesting to see what he does–and how Levi plays his part. After all, Chuck is the only one who doesn’t know the answer, so the acting has to all be on Levi’s part first.

    • JC says:

      From both promos it seems like it happens before they go to Paris. You have that scene of C/S at castle and perhaps Shaw too. I’m guessing where ever Shaw was taking her at the end of American Hero is that warehouse where she sees the video of her Red Test. Somehow they end up back at Burbank and Chuck gets the wrong idea. From that early promo of DYLM scene Chuck looked completely dejected.

      • Paul says:

        Maybe. Or it is that Cuck is apprehensive about going to Paris with Shaw because he thinks Sarah is in danger, and ask “SDYLM…?”, but the second part is “If you do, please don’t go.” And she reassures him with a kiss that she will be okay.

    • Faith says:

      am I missing something? I watched the promo but I don’t recognize anything DYLM related?

      • sd says:

        Hi Faith…I don’t know if you know..folks are talking about the CTV promo…in that promo…the C/S kiss moment shows her wearing the same blouse she is wearing during the DYLM moment.

        The spec is that DYLM happens in ep 13.

      • Faith says:

        lol I’ve been arguing that for awhile…I do it every week. But hmm, let me take a screenshot.

        Is this the pic you’re talking about?

        compared to this?

      • sd says:

        Yes. Once it goes back to Sarah in the second screenshot you see she is wearing the same blouse.

        The spec is that somehow the gang (w/Shaw) returns to Castle after Shaw takes Sarah to the desert and Chuck is confused and asks the DYLM question…clearly the CTV promo gives away the answer? 🙂

        it’s one of two apparent romantic scenes in ep 13….the second is in the NBC promo.

      • Paul says:

        SD, I think that Chuck looks worried in that scene. Not worried that Sarah doesn’t love him, but worried for her safety.

      • JC says:

        However it plays out, it might get her to actually say it.

      • Crumby says:

        I thought Chuck looked worried in that scene too.
        Chuck may have to confront Sarah about Shaw’s emotional stability. Like “Look, DYLM, cause if you do you need to listen to me right now, I know you care for him, but Shaw’s not as stable as he seems, and you need to be careful.”

      • sd says:

        Paul and Crumby…

        I think he looks worried b/c this is insecure Chuck talking and there is a part of him who doesn’t know for sure if Sarah loves him. This is especially true if the spec about when this happens, actually happens.

      • JC says:

        Just saw the clip they played on Leno.

        Chuck is talking/freaking out to Casey about Shaw and Sarah off the grid on a mission. He mentions the Red Test and Beckman has told him do nothing. Chuck gets a distress signal from Sarah. Casey gives him a number for a tactical team he can use.

      • Ernie Davis says:

        Wow, it’s almost as if they want people to watch this episode or something…

      • sd says:

        Crumby and Paul…on second read…I think what you say would work…it allows the writers to keep Sarah saying ILY outright for a future episode…but also gives the viewers and Chuck reassurance that she’s with him…

      • Crumby says:

        And nothing is never as it seems in the promo.

  33. Gord says:

    Ok a couple of speculations on 313/314.
    First in 313 Casey’s “get me my suit” line comes after getting a call from Gen Beckman who pleads for his help because Sarah and Chuck are in trouble. This will come with full reinstatement.

    A possible scenario for 314 I like is that the episode starts with Chuck and Sarah running away together. While on the train Chuck flashes on a bad guy and Chuck and Sarah have to go into action to save everyone on the train. Near the end of the episode they have a discussion and mutually come to the decision that the intersect is needed and that as much as they would love to just run from it all, they know that eventually they would be caught and staying with the CIA is the best way for them to continue to help people.
    By the way, over at the Chuck boards someone posted a link to a TV interview with Yvonne where they show a clip from the train episode.

    It is a fight scene in which Chuck and Sarah are handcuffed.
    Sarah is in a room fighting a bad guy and Chuck is on the other side of the door.
    If this train trip isn’t a mission like I am speculating – it is worthwhile noting that Sarah is wearing an engagement ring in the scene.

    • Faith says:

      cover ring? I’m gonna go with cover ring…

    • joe says:

      Oh gee! This Chris Hardwick guy (he’s the interviewer, right?) is a bit of a dweeb! But I love the way Yvonne handled him. She’s a sharp cookie.

      And wow – yet another great scene. Oh yes, that’s a ring. Cover or no, it makes me happy to see that.

      • JC says:

        I saw that interview, it was creepy no wonder Yvonne is so private.

        By the way Chuck has a ring on too. So that would make it wedding bands right. 😉

      • weaselone says:

        I think the interview was OK up until they rolled the video game footage. The 90% of the audience comment was certainly possessed a creepiness factor, but was too hilarious for someone on that type of show to pass up. The length of the clip, the continued comments in that vein and those regarding the accuracy went off the deep end.

        Yvonne was her usual charming, beautiful self.

      • weaselone says:

        Hmmm. Forgot to comment on the clip. I think it definitely shows that the but kicking Sarah is back. She handles a guy with one hand effectively tied behind her back and restrained from moving.

    • Paul says:

      I’d like to add a side spec to Gord’s in that somehow Morgan gets added into the reinstatement. Hence why he quit the buymore because of another “job offer”.

      • joe says:

        A “side spec?” That’s a great concept! 😉

        Yeah. Morgan has really been the forgotten character in all this. Here, the guy has gone through as much as any of the principals, and still is only Chuck’s Sancho Panza. He deserves to have Anna back.

      • Paul says:

        Yeah “side spec”….kinda like a “side bet” to us craps players… 😛

      • Paul says:

        Dunno, Joe. I think Morgan has moved beyond a girl like Anna. He needs his own Sarah.

      • atcdave says:

        The burning question is, What on Earth is Morgan going to do for the NSA?

      • Paul says:

        Provide a kick ass battleplan for Call of Duty…

  34. Jason says:

    the what you see is what you get 3.13 spec might go like this (I hope this spec is wrong):

    shaw’s only season 3 mission was to gain revenge on his wife’s killer (hence the ring organization is meaningless other than originally they were the object of shaw’s revenge), shaw lures chuck and sarah to paris, tranc’s sarah on the spot where sarah shot eve, and waits to ambush chuck, to exact revenge on sarah, somehow shaw is prevented from killing chuck – that is the epic conclusion to the epic arc to complete the mythology of the show – geez – repeat after me – stay positive jason – stay positive jason – ok I am better now

  35. Ernie Davis says:

    Wow, far too many comments to process all of them, but I’ll post my spec, parts of which I’m sure have been covered.

    The initial “kidnapping” is a McGuffin. Shaw takes Sarah to a now abandoned Ring base where she “accidentally” sees the footage of her red test and finds out she was Shaw’s wife. At some point she has signaled Chuck who as a special agent assembles a strike team to rescue her. Shaw tells Sarah he doesn’t blame her, she was just the instrument, not the real killer, the real killer gave the order and now he knows how to find him (perhaps it is revealed that Eve was turned and burned by the ring and Sarah’s kill order was legit or her kill order was from a ring mole, either works). Chuck arrives but the situation is already defused. Chuck and Sarah talk. I know, CRAZY. Chuck asks Sarah the question, when/if she doesn’t answer he says something like trust me, you can’t trust Shaw. This also works if she answers yes. She perhaps says (going back to S2) I only trust you.

    Shaw sets up a new mission, and burns Chuck and Sarah. He also makes it look as if they’ve turned or gone rogue, or been captured. Beckman reinstates Casey to hunt them down. He accepts because Chuck has filled him in and he knows Shaw is a tool. Also he owes them and doesn’t want anyone else getting the job. Chuck and Sarah and Casey hunt down Shaw and in one or more confrontations Shaw is defeated, but perhaps not killed, and I say Chuck finally pulls the trigger. Chuck and Sarah decide to go on the run after all, as man and wife. They elope, Casey lets them get away, and they head to Lisbon where Sarah has cached away resources for such a contingency. Pick up 3.14, honeymooners on a train, Chuck flashes, they have to step in to prevent tragedy, Casey finally manages to bring them in as heroes, all is sort of forgiven, the reset to spy couple is complete.

    Or something like that.

    • sd says:

      he he he (insert Bevis/Butthead) you called Shaw a tool…

    • Crumby says:

      Ernie I think you’re pretty close.

      I love you’re idea about Lisbon. There has to be something about it!

      I’d just add something, while in Paris, Sarah finally take Chuck to see the Eiffel Tower! 🙂

    • JC says:

      At some point C/S confront the Ring Director and if I remember right Mark Sheppard in an interview talks about a scene where Routh chases him down a hallway.

      So maybe thats the mission Shaw plans, he confronts the Director and maybe he reveals something about Eve Shaw.

      Which leads to him going after Sarah.

      There is alot of stuff going on in this episode.

    • atcdave says:

      That sounds like a great episode Ernie, but I don’t remember hearing 3.13 would be 2 hours long. It’ll be cool if you’re right.

  36. Josh says:

    I don’t know if anybody caught Zac’s appearance on Jay Leno but they showed a clip from vs The Other Guy and I ‘m pretty certain the 49b (Agent Alex Forrest) was in there, in the elevator scene with the ring director.

    • Paul says:

      No it’s not her, but someone who looks similar. Tricia Helfer coming back would have been a big deal….not to mention straining the budget with 3 big name guest stars.

    • amyabn says:

      I saw the clip as part of Yvonne’s interview and I thought the same thing. I don’t have Faith’s skills with screen shots, but if it isn’t Forrest, it is a woman who looks an awful lot like her.

  37. amyabn says:

    My question is about them being in the elevator with the Director in the first place. Where is Shaw? Sarah and Chuck are all geared up, so I am curious/excited about the next episode and how it plays out.

  38. Jason says:

    another reference to the manchurian candidate, although a phone call triggered the last mission in the movie, the queen of diamonds was a trigger, whenever the movie ‘shaw’ saw the queen of diamonds, he did whatever he was told to … funny … is it possible the wedding ring (diamonds?) has the same affect on daniel shaw in chuck??? the rings came to shaw in 3.5 with the disks, is it possible the disks were his instructions?

    • Paul says:

      I’m still not for sure that Shaw was/is inherently a bad guy (ie a Ring agent). I maintain that he’s a guy who’s letting his obssession allow him to be manipulated by less than scrupulous people.

      • herder says:

        That is sort of the way I am leaning too, my guess is that in his eagerness to strike back at the ring he will think he is manipulating the director when in fact he is the one being manipulated. I also think that he anger at Sarah for being the one to pull the trigger will cause him to be less careful of her safety than he would ordinarily be.

        Fanaticism, anger at Sarah and an excess of faith in his own cleverness will cause him to make a tragic miscalculation. Not evil, just reckless.

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