Chuck vs. The Living Dead: First Reactions

Are You Ready?

This feels like the beginning of a major, major climax.

Yvonne Strahovski as Lizzie Borden

Is Shaw still alive?  Is Ellie in deadly danger?  Is Stephen going to give his all to save them? Was Big Mike really “Rain” in Earth, Wind and Fire? Don’t be surprised if the answer to all of these is a big YES!

And what is Sarah going to do with that ax, exactly? That’s what we want to know.

For now, we speculate. After the show, please tell us what you think!

– joe


About joe

In my life I've been a professor, martial artist, rock 'n roller, rocket scientist, lover, poet and brain surgeon. I'm lying about the brain surgery.
This entry was posted in ChuckMeMondays, No Spoilers, Season 3, Wild Speculation. Bookmark the permalink.

285 Responses to Chuck vs. The Living Dead: First Reactions

  1. Jen says:

    I seriously can’t wait to watch this ep! i still have 40min left to work, then i gotta go workout and theeeeeen comes Chuck… can’t i just ffwd time to 8pm?
    I’m most curious about the axe and what Papa B is involved in, who are those guys dressed in camo? Does Ellie get to find out about it all tonight? Is that her head in the 10sec mark of the preview? In how many ways will we see Shaw die in Chuck’s dreams? Is the guy rweally alive? u doubt it…

  2. Hey Joe! I’m back. I’ve already posted my comments earlier on tonights episode on the right.

    what has Papa B gotten himself into? what ever it is it’s not good.

    Was in ep.12 back at Castle when Chuck is trying to win Sarah back that when Shaw shows up and had a talk with him. Did he tell Chuck I’m always is going to be a part of you. I wonder!

    • joe says:

      Hi, Bernard. Welcome back!

      So you think Shaw is still alive? The good part of that is that we might get to see Chuck shoot him again. Or better, see Sarah shoot him! 😉

      Enjoy the episode and come back to tell us what you thought of it.

  3. BDaddyDL says:

    OKI was scheduled to work tonight I was going to miss chuck.I was able to swap schedules so now I am off. I switched schedules to be off for Chuck

  4. Chuck604 says:

    Can’t wait for tonight’s episode. My wife and I are so stoked. Possibly the first Chuck our baby boy will see if he can stay awake long enough.

  5. Rick Holy says:

    O.K. Just watched tonight’s episode. If Shaw is alive, I’m going to crap. Sorry to be blunt. But C’MON already! I think we’ve discussed in the past on different posts how we have to “suspend disbelief” to engage this show. But do we also have to suspend brain function?

    If Shaw is alive after taking several bullets to the chest and falling into a river, then the shark tank has definitely been jumped.

    I guess if he’s alive in the last episode then it will be Bryce Larkin who winds up killing him “for good.”

    • atcdave says:

      Every good villian needs to be killed more than once! Obviously, Shaw will be a bigger problem this time. I would love to see Sarah blow him away, that should remove the last of Chuck’s insecurities. But I see an Intersect fueled smackdown coming our way.

      • John says:

        Yeah I have to say if it is Shaw, no problem he makes a good villian. Besides he knows everything about the team and their families and the whole thing. It could be a very awesome finish.

        But um I hope they don’t make a habit of bringing people back from the dead all the time.

      • atcdave says:

        I think the bigger problem is that they’ve done it before, remember Bryce? I had a friend comment last week, “ugh, they better not be bringing back Shaw!” Too late, I think its a done deal. Let’s just enjoy his next death scene (oh man, I hope that’s not the cliff hanger!)

      • John says:

        Yeah at least we know he will lose this time. That is the main reason I REALLY did not want them to bring him back at first, because they already did it with Bryce.

        But if it is a done deal might as well enjoy it as much as I can. I just hope they never do it again.

      • cas says:

        The way they are bringing people back from the dead, I would not be sursprised if they kill Sarah this season and bring her back the next.

      • weaselone says:

        I made a similar comment on the blog that shall not be named. Then a pondered whether the “get out of death free card” might be confined to Sarah’s PLIs and not extended to herself.

    • joe says:

      I have to admit, I don’t mind so much as I thought I would a month ago. He’s actually the best villain now since Vincent.

      And when I think about it, I’d love to see Sarah shoot him.

      Is that so wrong? 😉

    • Jen says:

      I too think Shaw makes the perfect Nemesis for both Chuck and Sarah. He’s emotionally unbalanced and has a personal vendetta against Sarah for killing his wife, against Chuck for “killing” him, and against the organization that ordered his wife’s assasination and that C&S work for, the CIA. I actually screamed out NOOOOOOOOO when i realized that was Shaw, but i do think he’ll make a great villan.

      He’s got those crazy red-rimmed eyes…

  6. sniderman says:

    Shaw or not (still have some doubt), it still excites me that we finally seem to have the beginnings of the Dark Intersect. Been wanting to see how Team B would fare against a trained spy with an Intersect of his own.

    • John says:

      Yeah they keep making us think he is back. There may be more to it than that.

      Still great episode I loved Captain Awesome’s typical day as a husband, Scott Bakula back, the whole spy plot with Ellie. I even loved Casey giving Sarah a hard time about Shaw and the comic timing was great on her reactions.

      Need to watch it a few times to digest it.

      • JC says:

        The interrogation by Casey was great. Best part was that it ignored what was said in Am Hero. This season’s angst is so ridiculous.

      • John says:

        I thought the interrogation scene was just a gag. Casey doing the whole making Sarah uncomfortable thing and Chuck’s reactions. I thought it was hilarious. Where was the angst?

      • JC says:

        No I loved the scene, it had me laughing. I meant how they went out the way not to sell the S/S but then dumped it all into that scene. It made it even funnier IMO.

      • atcdave says:

        I sure understood the angst, Chuck having to hear all about Sarah’s time with Shaw. I didn’t care for it, but it was funny how Sarah kept shrinking down in her chair.

  7. atcdave says:

    Sarah certainly had an epic moment. “she has the Intersect too?!”
    “no dad, that’s just her!”

  8. joe says:

    Alright – my first very early impression is that those last few minutes (from the cabin scene on) blew me away. Until then it struck me as a midland episode for Chuck. But Sarah to the rescue, Ellie decking Casey, the (possible) return of an intersected Shaw – fantastic! I can’t wait to see the whole thing again.

    But the very best part was Sarah giving Chuck her spy-will. That was more important than the name-reveal in The Mask.

    • Sole says:

      Yes Sir! I thought that was just me being the shipper that I am. Also, LOVED Sarah making Morgan Confess, and Morgan’s “talking is a bit overrated” is already one of my favorites lines. Shaw is the new intersec? I did not see that coming… Not sure if I loved it or hated it.

  9. Jen says:

    I enjoyed this ep a lot! At first I wanted. To smack Chuck for continuing to lie (He never did tell Sarah about what the intersect could do to him right?) But then got really I to the rest of the story.
    Casey’s interrogation of Sarah n Shaws activities was hilarious. Couples massage?? Tiffany’s? Ha! Those earrings ended up off of her ear. U wonder if Chuck made her take em off.
    I got the feeling that even though we’ve been thinking of Sarah as the “emotionally constipated” one, she has a better idea of how to handle the relationship. She encouraged Chuck to tell the truth to his dad, she was supportive, and what a beautiful way to take care of Chuck by stealing his dad’s address. The perks of dating a super spy… It was important that both c n s recognize the dangers of their jobs n that each mission could be the last. Chuck still needs to let Sarah knows of what might happen to him.
    Scott Bakul is a genius in this role. I like all the little nuances of his character.

    Ok, rambling here, fromy phone. I’m off to bed.
    On a bad note. My lying dvr didn’t record even though it had the little red light on so I can’t rewartch the ep til it cones out in iTunes.

    Hehe… Chuck looking through sarah’s clothes??? 😛

    • John says:

      Jen you cannot watch it on

    • joe says:

      Or on Hulu? It’ll be there tomorrow!

    • Kevin says:

      Try Hulu in the morning. The episode should be there.

    • weaselone says:

      I hope that Chuck making up his spy will indicates that he’s about to step up and cue Sarah in on his secret regarding the Intersect. I was somewhat disappointed that he didn’t come clean at an earlier point.

      Of course, Casey’s interrogation of Sarah revealed that there were some things she was withholding from Chuck regarding the seriousness of her relationship with Shaw.

      • Jen says:

        I’m sure Chuck rally doesn’t want to know all those details. “I” didn’t want to know either, but it was fun to see a jelous Chuck.

        The lying has to stop. I hope he talks with Sarah next week. Even she told him about the importance of honesty with those that we love. Hope Chuck was “listening”.

      • weaselone says:

        I agree that he didn’t want to know all the details, but Chuck was still under the impression all Sarah and Shaw did in DC was in a professional capacity. That’s a fairly significant omission.

      • atcdave says:

        Yeah, right after scolding Chuck about lying she sort of got busted by her own. Although I’m more inclined to give Sarah a pass (why would she discuss actions involving her ex?).
        I do agree Chuck still needs to come clean, but it seems less important now if there is a fix.
        Given that I’d previously been speculating Ellie would be key in treating Intersect health issues, that doesn’t currently seem likely.

      • lucian says:

        I think Chuck had a pretty good sense that more was going on in D.C. than meetings. This is one of those times when we would just rather not know.

    • Jen says:

      yeah, i can, and will buy it too… but it won’t be on til tomorrow and i wanted to rewatch tonight. that’s the addiction talking 🙂

      Thanks for all the online viewing optns guys!

    • Jen says:

      I just bought the ep so i can rewatch as many times as i want 🙂

  10. AngelTwo says:

    Decent enough episode, but so much for that theory that the name reveal in Fake Name was a substitute for sex because TPTB didn’t want to break “The Sarah rule,” eh?

    And it’s just another example of the mess this season is logicially and mythologically and character-development wise. Even Routh said in the If magazine interview that hit the Net today that he didn’t know how to play things from episode to episode because they kept changing the character. Read it while you review pictures of the people you’ve killed:

  11. Lola says:

    First Reaction: Oh my God, Oh my God, Oh my God, Oh my God, Oh my God, Oh my God, Oh my God!
    This eps is sooo goood!

    • joe says:

      Oh, don’t hold back like that, Lola. Tell us what you REALLY think! 😉

      • Lola says:

        uh uh, I think i will Joe! 😉

        Seriously, nice episode. Really liked the way the comedy was mixed, edited, and in the end they put everything in, to prepear us for the back to back SEASON finale (yeah! just season finale jeje).

        I have to say, i’ve been waiting to see Ellie’s reaction when she finds out that her entire family is in the spy biz and that they ‘ve been keeping her out of the loop… Hopefully we’ll see it next week?

        Ok, another thing: waiting for next week is a little bittersweet… I want it to be monday again! But in the other hand… Its a long way till september.

  12. joe says:

    FYI: It’s 10:40 eastern, and about 20 minutes ago @JoshSchwartz76 asked Chuck fans what they think.

    You may want to sent him a tweet!

    • atcdave says:

      I don’t tweet so just for you guys; good episode, great ending. Didn’t like lying Chuck, didn’t like reliving the Sham, Jeff(ster) weren’t very funny until we met “Rain.” Otherwise good episode.

      • joe says:

        Yeah, I agree with that pretty much down the line.

        On Chuck’s lying though, has he learned his lesson yet? Or has his almost-lie been turned into an almost-truth, maybe?

        Some of his coming clean is tied up in Chuck writing his spy-will, even if it isn’t finished yet.

        Oh – Between finding out that he was wrong about Shaw being alive and what Stephen told him, Chuck should know that he has a problem now. But Shaw IS alive, apparently. And Stephen never was definitive. So we should have more doubts about what’s really happening than Chuck!

      • Chuck604 says:

        I thought it was pretty good, especially the ending where Sarah gave Chuck her spy will. I thought it was like the ultimate sign that she totally trust Chuck.

        The Rain portion was hilarious, like Dave said, specially when he mentioned lester had the hips of a six year old. I thought Casey’s grilling of Sarah about Shaw was rather funny, especially with Chuck knocking his head on the desk.

        But like you said I wish he had come clean with Sarah about the Intersect Joe. But from the previews for the finale, that might happen. There was a short clip of him saying that the flashes were getting worse, maybe that will be the impetus for him to come clean with Sarah.

      • atcdave says:

        Yeah, Chuck still needs to come clean with Sarah about possible health consequences, but it is a smaller issue if treatable.

        I’m hoping “Shaw” turns out to be Justin, but I don’t expect that.

      • Chuck604 says:

        Well at least they get to kill Shaw twice. Double the pleasure, double the fun!! Well at least I’m hoping so; hopefully they’ll put two in his head.

  13. Merve says:

    This episode was so jampacked, scattered, and all over the place. I don’t know what to think about it. I really need to re-watch it. But for now, some random thoughts:

    – Chuck really has to stop lying.

    – Awesome detailing his typical day to Morgan was hilarious. (In fact, the whole marital infidelity misunderstanding was hilarious. These kinds of things are so much better when they’re played for comedy.)

    – This episode had awkward pacing, scenes that seemed to have explanatory dialogue cut out, and a distinct lack of jokes. In other words, it suffered from many of the same problems as “Pink Slip.” But somehow, it was a lot better than that episode. I don’t really know why.

    – The Jeffster! subplot didn’t seem as if it were going anywhere, so I was kind of annoyed about it. But I then realized that it’s probably the beginning of the series’ first Jeffster! arc, so now I’m excited.

    – Casey got hit with a frying pan. Twice. I’m surprised that it wasn’t even half as funny as I thought it would be. But it was still pretty awesome. Go Ellie!

    – It’s kind of silly for Shaw to still be alive after falling into a river, but stranger things have happened. I’m quite excited to see an epic Intersect vs. Intersect battle next week. (I’ll have popcorn ready.)

    – Sarah giving Chuck her spy will was possibly a more powerful moment than her “I love you.”

    – Scott Holroyd continues to display all the acting talent of the cast of a junior high production of The Wizard of Oz. But I really like what his character is contributing to the plot.

    Overall, I liked this episode, but I’m not sure about how much I liked it. I’m kind of feeling that way about all of season 3.1 so far; I don’t think it’s much better than season 3.0. That’s not a criticism, as I really enjoyed 3.0, but I’m not seeing any magical massive improvement. The show is still solid and entertaining, as it always was, but for me, season 3.1 hasn’t produced any all-time favourites yet (except for maybe “Honeymoooners”).

    Even if this wasn’t the series’ most enjoyable or entertaining episode, I have never been more excited to see the next episode of Chuck. Things have been set up very nicely. I can’t wait until next Monday.

    • atcdave says:

      I agree almost entirely Merve, except you know I didn’t like the “3.0” arc. To me, the difference is entirely in Chuck and Sarah together. It means things are right at the heart, its just a matter of sorting out details (like living from one mission to the next!). In 3.0 things felt wrong and unpleasent at the heart of things; so even with the better episodes I wasn’t completely satisfied. Now, even when we get a weaker episode, I’m pretty happy with things overall.
      I hadn’t mentioned previously how much I loved Awesome’s day, that was one of the funnier bits they’ve done. I agree strongly that this sort of arc has to go for laughs. These things are too real and too sore when played for drama.
      I liked the spy will scene. It concerns me some, I’m sure we’ll see a scene where one of them gets read due to an assumed death. That is not a scene I look forward to. But I am sure neither Chuck nor Sarah will actually be killed off.

  14. weaselone says:

    Seriously, one would think that Chuck would have learned not to lie by now. They basically bought Chuck one more episode by having Sarah expose that she hadn’t been forthright with Chuck regarding the Shaw relationship and by having him write his spy will at the end. Still, he should have come clean to Sarah and definitely shouldn’t have had to be drug kicking and screaming to tell the truth to his father.

    • lucian says:

      I was glad to see Sarah very quickly get the truth out of Morgan, and we know that Chuck is still pretty insecure, but the way he lied to his father and then finished it off with the comment about “I wouldn’t lie to you” or something to that effect really irked me. By this point, I expect better of him. I would have thought that his father had earned more of Chuck’s trust based on what papa B did for him last time around.

      I’m glad they are attempting to come clean with the Sarah / Shaw relationship. I felt for both of them, not really wanting to have that conversation.

      Now, we are starting to understand why Chuck doesn’t like guns – they don’t work, even if you hit a guy four times in the chest.

      • Kevin says:


        Addressing your first paragraph. I think Chuck explained himself in the apartment when he told his dad that what he had learned from him was how to live without him. So there are still trust issues there in my opinion.

    • Jen says:

      yah, i feel the same way about the lying. I rolled my eyes at him lying to his dad and even dragging Sarah into the lie at the buy more. She looked concerned? disapointed? when cuck assures his dad he wouldn’t lie.
      And he still didn’t tell Sarah about his meltin brain.

      • Freddy J says:

        I agree…him lying to his dad about one thing and to Sarah about another…it starts to put a bit of a tarnish on his “good guy” tag…I mean, I understand the motives, but still, sometimes you have to man up and come clean. Of course, I’m sure that’s what they’re building toward, I just wish Chuck would learn from his mistakes.

      • weaselone says:

        Well, Chuck and his dad lie to each other in order to protect each other. It must be in the Bartowski DNA.

      • atcdave says:

        I agree Jen, biggest downer of this episode. But Sarah making Morgan come clean almost made it worth it. “Your lady can be pretty intimidating!” duh!

      • Jen says:

        The Sarah/Morgan scene was great. First Morgan packing up weapons as if he’s going to fight a small army, even grabbing the shield… which he then used to hide from Sarah. That was good 🙂 She’s already like a foot taller that him (i’m sure i’m exagerating :P) plus she’s a deadly spy… so yeah, intimidating is not an overstatement!

  15. jason says:

    I didn’t like the episode much at all, rename the show shaw and be done with it – sick of him – to me, more retconing of the terrible shaw arc by the casey interrogation – that was again the writers attempt to be cute by having casey be us – don’t they get it – a large portion of their fan base dislikes the show becasue of it & were just starting to recover, then they throw it into this episode – just wait till sarah is pregnant at the end of 3.19, more fun for you guys

    • John says:

      Hating Shaw is good…goood…he is the bad guy. Let your hate roll over you. Then having him get killed again will be that much more satisfying.

    • Ernie Davis says:

      I think they’re again trying to have it both ways. They want to leave doubt so Sarah doesn’t come off as the flakey office… well you know. But they also want to have it rubbed in Chuck’s face constantly. Anyone notice the date Sarah and Shaw spent in his loft? The air date of Final Exam. The way this is going I wouldn’t be too surprised if they try to flip it one more time and say nothing happened. Sarah was despondent after Chuck’s final test so she and Shaw spent the day off the grid talking about her feelings and losing the one they loved or something. Of course then they’re back to why didn’t Sarah simply say that, but of course she was interrupted by Chuck’s flash, and they can never ever have that conversation again until it creates some angst. And again Sarah apparently can open up to Shaw, just not Chuck, at least at that point.

      Either that or it never gets revisited, it was just a one off for a bit of comedy angst.

      In fairness I thought it a funny scene and a return to Casey torturing the two of them over the PLI and their feelings. A tried and true source of comedy.

      • Crumby says:

        Yeah that scene felt like old time whih Casey in the middle “torturing” them with its comments.

        Casey could be their couple therapist. With all he’s seen of their relationship, they can pretty much talked about anything in front of him…

      • odysszeuss says:

        nice, crumby…

        casey the assassin, angel de la muerte the couple therapist

        but meanwhile he really is becoming a softie ;-), perhaps deadly time to time, but a softie deadly couple therapist…

    • jason says:

      the suprise pregnancy table is full on the EW site so unless a line is added, I think sarah is off the hook, so is the engagement and wedding table, a proposal is still open, several deaths, breakups, few other things:

  16. Freddy J says:

    Great episode! Love the loyalty Casey has gained towards both members of Team B. Any episode with Papa B in it is automatically assigned a spot on the top of my Chuck list! Ellie has GOT to find out soon and BOY would it be great to attend that family dinner afterward. I gotta admit, I love the idea of Shaw as Chuck’s nemesis. I think him playing a mastermind role in the background would be awesome for season 4. It’ll also be interesting to see where Chuck goes intersect-wise knowing it could kill him… Alot of things coming to a head now, SERIOUSLY stoked about next Monday! (and also sad, knowing it’s the last new Chuck for months)

  17. Jen says:

    So after tonight’s ep i have these questions:

    What happend to Shaw and how did The Ring build an Intersect? I’m thinking tat in Paris not all Ring agents were captured, i mean… it was only Casey.

    Did someone escape with the info to build the Intersect?

    What’s contained in this version of the intersect? Also governemnt secrets or just the fighting skills? It’s one thing to build an Intersect computer, but you gotta fill in the data.

    Shaw knows Chuck has in intersesct n his brain, but it doens’t seem like he has spilled the beans, why?

    The funnies were…funny. Big Mike was “Rain”, LOL. I love the line to Lester “You have the waist of a 6 yr old girl” 😛 Awesome is just an AWESOME husband, but i guess we could have assumed that.

    This was a very tense, suspenseful episode, and i really enjoyed it. I can’t wait to see next week’s ep and how the Ellie story develops. I’m sure team B will have to come to her rescue. I’m also dying to see Team B face intersected-back-from-the-dead Shaw.

    Ok, i’m off to bed now. 🙂

    • joe says:

      Did someone escape with the info to build the Intersect?
      Just wanted to address this one, Jen, ’cause I happened to notice this from the first.

      When “The Director” and Shaw have Sarah sitting in the Paris Cafe, just before Chuck appears, The Director interrupts Shaw and says “By the way… do you have the plans?” Shaw hands him the CIAs intersect plans (we had been told that The Ring’s plans had a flaw) and the Director hands them over to a henchman behind him. The Director leaves, Chuck does his thing, but before Shaw attacks Chuck, he notices that Casey has captured the Director off screen.

      But I wondered even then, did Casey get the plans back? Apparently not. That’s when the Ring got them.

      • Jen says:

        There is one of those “loose ends”. Casey grabs the Director, but not the rest of the Ring agents who apparently escaped with the Intersect info. Seems to me like this should have been mentioned at some point.

      • weaselone says:

        Yeah really. You’d think we’d have heard something about the Ring successfully making off with Intersect plans…like from a Beckman with a face as red as her hair.

      • kg says:

        Joe I saw this too, but it is also not inconceivable that Shaw made copies before giving a set to the director.

        And I don’t understand how some folks can’t believe Shaw is still alive. His eyes were wide open as he tried to pull helpless Sarah into the abyss with him.

        It’s not inconceivable to think macho dude Shaw struggling to the shore after falling. It was only a river, not hard concrete or battery acid.

      • Crumby says:

        Did they really those specific plans?

        They could have had their people to just figure it out.

    • kg says:

      Justin is not Shaw. He’s been talking to Shaw the whole time at least since Africa.

      From the preview it looks like Chuck has to make a decision. Save either Sarah or Ellie.

      Like Batman against the Riddler, he’ll want to do both.

  18. joe says:

    People on the east coast and in the Mountain time zone didn’t get to see next week’s promo. But poster 5152 on the NBC boards did a quick run down of what was in it.


    Shaw is back, they clearly show his face…he looks pi**ed
    Ellie runs into Chuk as he is breaking into the Ring headquarters
    Casey runs into his daughter and we hear him say (ver batim) ‘Alex, I’m your father’
    Chuck commenting (frantically) …’the flashes are getting worse’
    Brief shot of Gen. Beckman
    Brief shot of Chuck as a yong boy infront of a MAC
    Bomb in Buymore…everyone running for exits
    Shaw pointing a gun at an unseen person commenting’ you have one good flash left?’
    Ellie seems to be kidnapped
    Chuck ‘s comment…’saved the best for last’
    They Buy More in huge explosion

    I’m going to need time to process all this!

    • Kevin says:

      Some more info. There is an apparent showdown between Shaw and Chuck in the Buy More. Sarah is taken hostage by Shaw and faces down Chuck. I believe that Shaw shoots Chuck, not real clear since the east didn’t get a preview, I’m going by other posters on the NBC thread, and as Shaw is about to dispatch Chuck Sarah shoots Shaw and then checks for a pulse. As this climax’s the store goes up in a fireball.
      Chuck apparently finds out about Ellie’s situation because they “run into” one another at Ring headquarters. Also Chuck drops a guy in front of Ellie.
      Also, Casy finds his daughter and admits to her that she is his daughter.

    • Chuck604 says:

      Yeah looks like the Buy More is going to join Emmett in biting the dust. Shaw looks like he’s going to have a final showdown with Chuck during the battle. Also, like Jen mentioned where did the Ring build their own intersect? I’m guessing with Shaw surviving he had some data somewhere to help them complete the project.

    • bundy says:

      NBC has posted the preview.It’s looks really good.Can’t wait for next week.

    • atcdave says:

      I did just watch the preview, it looks amazing. Ellie will certainly know about Chuck. The Buy More will explode. Shaw is the Intersect. Looks like Sarah shoots Shaw (or at least tries). Chuck does tell Sarah about the Intersect problems (I think!).

      A lot of very short clips that it hard to be sure of much, but it looks very action packed. Is it Monday yet??!!

      • Chuck604 says:

        No kidding Monday can’t come soon enough!

      • Jen says:

        The preview looks like a movie, not just a TV show.
        I also got the impression that Chucks comes clean about the effect on the intersect on his brain. I hope we are right.

      • weaselone says:

        I’m still torn about how Chuck’s deception is revealed. If his lies to his father and his deception regarding the Shaw dream are a benchmark then Sarah will find out either through through another means. There’s many possibilities.

        1. Chuck gives Sarah his spy will and confesses the danger the Intersect poses relatively early in the next episode.
        2. Papa Bartowski discusses the condition with Chuck and his progress on the governor. Either Sarah overhears, or Papa B relates the information in front of her not realizing Chuck hasn’t told her. Then we get a father and son conversation about the value of honesty in a relationship possibly with a throwback to Chuck’s mom.
        3. Beckman brings it up in a briefing.
        4. Chuck’s increasing Intersect related problems make it impossible for him to conceal from Sarah any longer.

      • Crumby says:

        Oh reminds me that we’re gonna get a flashback with little Chuck and Ellie!

      • Chuck604 says:


        I think that Chuck’s intersect problems will be revealed to Sarah either like you said in option 2 or 4. She either overhears a conversation, or Chucks flashes become so severe that he won’t be able to hide it from her any longer.

  19. weaselone says:

    Also, this appears to confirm that any random person off the street can be intersected…Morgan really could have been the Intersect.

    • Ernie Davis says:

      I think they actually have an out on this one. It seems that Shaw was waiting for the governor to intersect and only intersected when it was clear they failed to get it. Also remember that at the wedding papa B’s flash nearly brought him to his knees. That plus the Fulcrum version either lobotomizing or killing people outright says to me that people, depending on genetics, can have different tolerances to the side effects, even when done properly. Some it kills or lobotomizes in the intersecting process, others, like the Bartowskis can tolerate it for years before serious side effects manifest. The key is the governor papa B built. With that anyone could intersect and avoid complications. That Chuck is suffering effects so soon, only a year-ish after re-intersecting is due to the extra strain 2.0 puts on the brain. It will be interesting to see how Shaw reacts. Maybe he’ll be even more extra special crazy.

      • weaselone says:

        Which just means that anyone off the street can upload the Intersect. What’s one more piece of technology?

      • jason says:

        never saw the simpsons, other than out of the corner of my eye channel flipping, but if I understand the ‘poochie’ concept – shaw being used as the only significant character yet again with the intersect – I just hope TPTB wrap (end) his arc with 3.19, he has been the worst single thing to happen to this show – almost seems like fedak is stubbornly just going to keep giving him more and more roles until one works so fedak can then say see Itold you he was great – the whole concept of showing us fans how much sarah and shaw sexed it up in 3.7 thru 3.12 really was a nice present to the fans – geez

      • Ernie Davis says:

        As long as you never take off your watch and the battery never runs down, no problem…

        I think they’ve also maintained from the beginning that the subject also needs to have the ability to retain and retrieve the information. The reason they wanted Chuck at Stanford in the first place. So it was really two factors, his ability to tolerate the process and the intersect, and his ability to retain and retrieve the information that make Chuck special. I’ll be interested to see how they play out intersect Shaw. As we’ve seen since about 3.10 more and more Chuck seems to be able to choose skills at will, with it becoming totally voluntary it seems by 3.14. Will Shaw work as flawlessly? I’d say Shaw is a bit emotionally unbalanced lately, though he does have a skill set to fall back on.

      • weaselone says:

        It could be implanted just like a pacemaker.

        I do get that Chuck has superior retention and likely operational capabilities. He should be faster and he should have a more complete set of data, but the question is how they will demonstrate this? I doubt they’ll make Shaw “glitchy”. He’ll probably be unhinged even more than earlier. They did show the download as more traumatic. Where Chuck generally stood rigid and collapsed at the end, Shaw was convulsing, but I guess we’ll just have to see….

      • herder says:

        Interesting idea about tolerances Ernie, I’d say that there are two relevant tolerances, accepting the download and operating the intersect.

        Some people can’t handle the download and are driven mad or killed, obviously the govenor can’t help them. Once intersected I’d guess that different people burn out at different rates, presumably Chuck at a slow rate and, I’d guess Shaw at a rapid rate. The goevernor could help but presumably only those who had a genetic predisposition to handling the intersect. After all, people who have pacemakers can still have heart attacks, similarly people with governors can still go crazy. So it doesn’t negate the specialness of Chuck’s brain as essential to intersect sucess.

        Besides which I’d like to see Shaw go even more evilly insane, sharks with laser beams anyone?

      • atcdave says:

        I could easily see Shaw having headaches and struggling to stay conscious when he flashes. I would be surprised if we see more consequences than that.

      • Chuck604 says:

        I guess Chuck was shown his amazing data absorption and retention skills in I think nemesis where he took that class and was able to see or analyze most of the images that flashed on that screen for the exam that he allegedly flunked but actually excelled in.

        Also in Suburbs, he survived the Fulcrum intersect test, when numerous test subjects died from trying to absorb all the data through force. So, I think not anyone can intersect, but there are ideal candidates for the process.

      • gringochuckfan says:

        It could very well be – that Shaw is Chuck’s brother from another mother…
        Or Chuck’s mom had a bastard child before she married Mr. B…
        Chuck and Shaw could essentially share the same DNA… so no problemo con Intersect…
        Yep – I’ve read way too many comic books!

    • Crumby says:

      Well before Chuck they didn’t know if it was possible. But they’ve been working on it since then.
      When Graham got blown up there was several agents ready to be Intersected.
      In Suburbs they were working on it, so Chuck ability must have helped him, but doesn’t it is impossible for other.
      They build the Intersect 2.0 for Bryce or someelse I guess.
      Manoosh did the glasses and anybody could use them.

      It is a new science like Doc Dreyfus said. They can make progress. But doesn’t mean Chuck isn’t well predisposed.

      • Chuck604 says:

        I’m sure both the CIA and the Ring have acceptable fatalities from people trying to upload the Intersect into their brains.

        And looks like some people are better suited to handle the Intersect than others. Chuck had it for almost 2 years if you include version 1 and he had no issues until this season. Stephen Bartowski has had an Intersect in his mind for who knows how long; obviously he can cope with the Intersect with the help of his creation the Governor.

        Maybe with varying people, the deterioration of their minds because of the Intersect will vary.

  20. JC says:

    I really loved the episode, somethings were off though. The Morgan scenes while funny felt wrong except the one with Sarah. The Jeffster side story was pointless.

    Loved that they played the whole Sarah/Shaw thing as a joke. I have to believe they knew at that point, so why not make it funny. Chuck banging his head on the table and his objection were classic.

    The scenes between Chuck and his dad were great. It was nice to see Chuck call his dad out on leaving him and Ellie again. I loved Scott Bakula in this episode.

    The fight scene was good, not at the level of Tic Tac but top three this season easily.

    Kinda wish they hadn’t spoiled the frying pan bit in the promo. Not that I thought Ellie would actually shoot but it ruined the scene.

    Sarah giving Chuck her spy will and having Chuck write his was probably the most emotional moment in the series. Maybe it was nothing but it seems like Papa B has some personal experience with those.

    Love and hate Shaw getting an Intersect. I hope we get an all out brawl between them, no guns nothing but fists and flashes. On the other hand it ruins Chuck being special unless it’s burning Shaw’s brain out.

    • John says:

      I think the Jeffster plot is setting up a Jeffster arc plot of some sort.

    • kg says:

      Chuck is still special even as Shaw has intersected. He has special gifts that Sarah, Ellie, Casey and Morgan recognize. He has good on his side. Shaw doesn’t.

      Among other reasons why this is true, “forget the intersect, forget being a spy, before all this you were smart once.”

    • Merve says:

      I don’t think that it’s unreasonable to assume that there are people other than Bartowskis who are capable of receiving the Intersect. After all, Bryce was supposed to get one in his head before he died.

      • weaselone says:

        Right, but that just not what we were led to believe in season 1 with Chuck 98% retention and the shock he managed to hold the entire database. Plus, at this point there is no reason to believe that there are CIA agents who aren’t capable of being Intersected. Shaw, Bryce, Chuck, the roomful of guys in First Date, the drive in theater full of Fulcrum operatives. At some point it just gets a little ridiculous. Plus, that brings up questions as to whether Chuck might just be a second rate Intersect, merely a Buymoron with a computer stuck in his head. Perhaps Chuck’s only awesome so long as real agents like Sarah or Bryce don’t get an Intersect. Maybe Intersect Chuck would be as easily manhandled by an Intersected Sarah as normal Chuck would be by Sarah without an Intersect?

      • Merve says:

        In that case, it’s been a problem since “First Date.” I don’t see how Shaw being able to upload the Intersect makes the issue any worse.

      • weaselone says:

        Well, nobody else has actually been able to upload the Intersect up to this point, outside of Chuck’s father who has a much older and one must assume less massive version. For all we know, the Fulcrum Agents and CIA agents would have ended up dead or comatose. Shaw’s actually succeeded, which opens up the whole can of worms.

      • Ernie Davis says:

        Of course there is the obvious shark jumper that Shaw is a Bartowski too. Orion had heard of him and knew his specialty when none of the rest of team B ever had. 😉

      • weaselone says:

        That would explain why Papa B knew who he was, although his reaction to the death seemed a little muted. Maybe Shaw is the product of an affair between Orion and some random CIA hussy. Mama B found out about it and split.

      • Crumby says:

        LOL Papa B didn’t seem to be heartbroken though. Shaw must not have been loved enough by his daddy when he was a child. That would explain his unstable state.

        Nobody did Intersected because there weren’t a lot of opportunities to do so. The new government Intersect exploded in First Date. The Fulcrum Intersect wasn’t ready (for just anybody) in Suburbs. Neither the government or Fulcrum managed to make another without Orion. And then the 2.0 was also destroyed. So…

    • Rick Holy says:

      I think Shaw’s brain is ALREADY burned out!

  21. herder says:

    Was otherwise occupied tonight and just finished watching the show, my personal reaction was wow! Suprised that many had a different opinion, a big spy episode, some uncomfortable moments, some funny moments, some touching moments, I loved it. going to watch the highlights again then off to bed.

  22. ChuckNewbie8 says:

    what are you guys talking about? He’s lying to protect the people he loves 😉

  23. ChuckNewbie8 says:

    I understand some people didn’t catch the promo?

    Here’s the tube:

  24. Crumby says:

    Of course Shaw’s alive! He fell into a river after all! Morgan’s logic never fails! 🙂

    • weaselone says:

      Well, I’m with Chuck. The guy took multiple bullets to the chest, bled for a decent period of time before finally falling in the river. The man should be dead unless the Ring has a high level cleric on its employment roster.

      • John says:

        Ah the old Raise Dead spell. At least his constitution score will be permanently reduced by 1 unless they used a Resurrection.

      • Anonymous says:

        It’s just TPTB trying to prove a point about the Shaw character. They will continue do ram it down our throats. Either that or Routh has some compromising pictures in his pocession.

      • Jen says:

        Maybe they put Shaw in one of those fancy chambers like they did w Bryce.. the bring-u-back-from-the-dead capsules.

      • atcdave says:

        I knew there had to be other gamers here!

        After taking 4 bullets is chest, how long would it take to be a mission ready spy again? I had my appendix out and it took like 3 weeks before I could bicycle again!

        I think some high level curative magic is the most likely scenario.

      • Mike B says:

        If you recall in “American Hero” when they took off Shaw’s shirt to remove the tracker he had no scar from where he was shot in “Operation Awesome”. Either he is a remarkable healer or he uses a lot of vitamin E.

      • Crumby says:

        I don’t recall scars in Fake Name either.

      • weaselone says:

        If I recall, Bryce was shot once and left bleeding on the pavement in front of a government facility where Fulcrum could have conceivably scraped him up.

        Shaw was shot multiple times in what appeared to be the heart and would have had to have been fished from a river.

        As for scars. They aren’t going to mar Shaw’s prettiness and more than they would Sarah’s. If Sarah gets her leg half blown off and takes multiple bullets and stab wounds to her stomach, back, legs, etc. in the finale she’s still going to be bikini ready by next fall.

    • gringochuckfan says:

      When Chuck shot Shaw on the bridge – you’ll notice the blood seems to spray and bounce off…
      My guess – is that Shaw swapped Chuck’s gun during their fight. Shaw left Chuck a gun with paint gun pellets – just like the elevator scene when Shaw shot all the Ring agents…
      It was all a setup… Even in Chuck’s dream – Shaw showed no scars.
      Now if this is the case – then the whole Shaw thing means he was a double agent the whole time –
      Stealing intel to build a new intersect..
      and his fling with Sarah – was just icing on the cake.

      • weaselone says:

        So why not just kill Sarah and Chuck? Heck, how would he even now Chuck was there so as to have squibs and fake blood ready for deployment?

      • Patty says:

        I think Shaw was wearing a vest with some sort of fake bloodbag that chuck popped when he shot him. I think he planned the whole thing after he found out Sarah killed Eve. After all Shaw did the same basic thing in Captain Awesome.

      • weaselone says:

        So why not just kill Chuck and Sarah? Was he just trying to play dead and if so why?

      • weaselone says:

        But I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s actually how they play it.

  25. Casey'sgirl says:

    So exciting, can’t wait. 🙂 I’m looking forward to seeing Casey and Alex interact and I live for the moment when she calls him Dad, or to please my little heart, the endearing Daddy, like what I call my own dad. I expected to see the ol’ Buy More go up in a blaze of glory, it’ll be sad though to say goodbye to the old place but they can rebuild though.

  26. lucian says:

    Looks to be a great finale. Unfortunately, it doesn’t appear that Shaw is vaporized, so he may be around for a few more seasons.

    • Casey's girl says:

      hope chuck can defeat him once and for all next week. I like him as a villain, but I get tired of hearing all the crud about how wooden he is. He is that way when he’s good but more believable when bad. I wish the other fans wouldn’t over react so much about it.

  27. BDaddyDL says:

    I have seen the episode twice now and there is one thing that really angers me. No more jeffester. I have always thought they were needed for comedy relief. I think the writers have evolved from that, and the funniest scenes (Chuck pounding head on table) did not involve them. Bringing Shaw back makes it so easy to create a supervillian. From the preview …WOW Come on Monday!

    • Ernie Davis says:

      Jeffster didn’t really work for me this time. I think it’s becoming a crutch. The best Buy More stories parallel the main story, this one was linked by the thinnest of threads.

      • jason says:

        I’ve sort of predicted this a few weeks back, but I think they will all be gone season 4, a band on tour, big mike the manager, probably be in a few episodes for music, one episode where they need spy / CIA help, which really should be great.

  28. Rick Holy says:

    O.K. I just saw the preview for the finale that was posted (I was one of those for whom it WASN’T aired). Actually it all looks great, except for SHAW being alive, but I’ll put up with a little more acid reflux because the rest of the double-decker episode looks awesome.

    But back to a slightly different topic. Remember it’s been stated that someone “significant” is going to die. Also remember that this season was supposed to focus on Chuck being on a “heroe’s journey.”

    1+1=2. Or 2+2=4, however you want to look at it – but I’m seeing a “Peter Parker” parallel and Clark Kent (the Smallville version) parallel here. “For all his powers,” Clark couldn’t save his father. “For all his powers,” Peter Parker couldn’t save Uncle Ben.

    “For all his powers,” Chuck isn’t going to be able to save Papa B. Can’t see it any other way now. If it DOES turn out to be someone else, then TPTB will REALLY have succeeded in shocking me.

    Less than one week to go. Can’t wait!!

    • joe says:

      Fr. Rick, when contemplating the mathematical certainties of a significant character’s death (especially in the Chuckiverse!) you have to remember what my physics profs always told us; “1+1=3, for sufficiently large values of 1”.

      It’s really helpful! 😉

  29. Jen says:

    I haven’t gotten to rewatch the ep. Did they at any time say what Justin wanted with Shaw’s personal stuff? Was it just that Shaw sent him over to get it?
    I wonder what the relation between Justin and Shaw is, who is superior? i would gather that Justin is. I wonder if in the end it will be a case of “good idea gone sour” with Shaw getting “intersected”, will he at some point even on the ring to follow his own personal vendetta aginst The Bartowskis?

    Just wondering out loud 🙂

    • Ernie Davis says:

      My impression was that Casey called it. They tripped a sensor in Shaw’s loft and it was more about preventing Team B from getting the intel Shaw had than retrieving it for themselves.

      • Crumby says:

        It wasn’t really convincing though. Why wouldn’t they try to kill Sarah and Chuck if they kney someone was in the penthouse?

        Maybe it was a setup, Justin gave them intel that weren’t even in the safe?

      • Jen says:

        What was the rush in getting that Shaw’s stuff from the penthouse? SO they trip a sensor, Justin gets teh alarm and he has to go check to retrieve the breifcase. I wish i could remember what Sarah got to read from teh will, but i dont’ remember that it was anything major, but it has to be if Justin rushed over to go and get it.

        If Shaw is the boss… he moved up ther Ring rank very quickly!

        Man, not having been able to rewatch sucks! Ijust bought the ep so i can watch it as many times as ai want 🙂

      • weaselone says:

        I think Justin was probably already on his way over to retrieve the contents of the safe. That’s why he was having Ellie meet him in the area. When Chuck and Sarah showed up he decided not to risk the meeting. I know the scene order is a little off for that, but it’s a reasonable explanation.

      • Crumby says:

        Jen, what Sarah read was only something like “My name is Daniel Shaw and if you’re reading this it means I’m dead”. Nothing more.

    • Orb says:

      Jen, I think Shaw would be the superior, he had lots info abt Team B and even knew Chuck’s secret.
      Justin more like a guy who act bad lol

    • jason says:

      looked like shaw is the boss. Justin called him when cs captured justins team at the cabin, a panicked justin said my team is destroyed, we have to move the time table up – TPTB have bestowed near epic characteristics to shaw, I think if fedak had his way, God would ask shaw’s permission before answering our prayers.

      Shaw has never been a good idea, 3.13 ended with the ring being a C plot to shaw’s revenge, 3.19 appears to be no different.

      • Crumby says:

        They like Shaw so much they could tell us that he was playing the Ring all along to retrieve the Intersect…

  30. Crumby says:

    The episode was good and really tense. I liked it but I can’t say I loved it. I don’t really know why though.

    – Chuck’s still lying to Sarah at the beginning of the episode, not just about his condition but also about his dream itself. He has a good excuse again, but somehow we all know this is not right as Morgan pointed it out. “Yes, I realize that honesty is important in a relationship.” As Doc Dreyfus would say: “Do you?”

    – But Sarah sneaking on Chuck was pretty funny. “And you smell… fantastic, too. Oh, hey, maybe that was just the Pop-Tart.”

    – By the way how come Morgan he’s the only one seeing straight about those dreams? Last week, he was the one saying that if Chuck was right they needed to go to the symphony to protect the guy. This week he’s the one saying that if Shaw’s alive everybody is in real danger. “Chuck, the thing is: if he’s alive, then he knows everything about her and he knows everything about you, everything about me…” Seriously, considering last time they saw Shaw, Sarah was his target, she’d be better expecting him to be alive and worrying than being relaxed, surprised and killed…

    – I loved the scene between Sarah and Morgan in Castle. We wandered if Morgan was intimidating but her now that he knows. Well, we have our answer.

    – Why Chuck’s dad he’s going to him first when Ellie’s the one contacting him? If it was because he was worried about Chuck still being CIA why didn’t he check on him sooner?

    – I didn’t like Chuck lying to his dad when he comes in the Buy More. I understood his reasons as he explained them to Morgan but the way he did it was… unpleasant. I was brought back to what I didn’t like seeing in Chuck this season until Beard. And obviously Sarah didn’t like it much either. The fact that he’s stuck between his lie to his dad and his lie to Sarah in that his speaking by itself. I didn’t like how he introduced Sarah as his girlfriend either. And then, he involved her in the lie… Not good Chuck.

    – I liked the return of the « nothing’s what it seems ». It is especially true for Ellie. Everyone he’s lying to her, for her own good of course.

    – I liked that Sarah told Chuck that he should tell his dad, and stop keeping things from her.

    – Then the whole thing with Casey about Shaw was hilarious. (BTW how did Casey know?) It brought back the old dynamic, with Casey screwing around with Sarah and Chuck. It was great. Reminded me of season 2.

    – It didn’t bother me that brought up Sham, after all it was a big part of the season, but only because they did it for comedy. I don’t blame Sarah for not telling more to Chuck about Shaw. Chuck knew about Sham. He saw them in Fake Name. He even asked Sarah if she was gonna move in with the guy in Final Exam. He crashed their date in American Hero… I’m sure Chuck didn’t give Sarah all the details about Hannah either. And Sarah didn’t even shoot her because she was trying to kill Chuck… I think it’s understandable that Sarah’d rather put Sham behind her.

    – BTW one thing stroke me. I felt like this all Shaw thing bothered Chuck way more than Sarah. She’s even wearing the earrings. But Chuck seems pretty freaked out about the idea of Shaw being alive.

    – The all Jeffster thing kind of fell flat for me. That’s the kind of Buy More story, non main story related, that I don’t really care about, and I didn’t find it that funny, so…

    – I still don’t get why Orion didn’t go to Ellie, I thought he would be more preoccupied by her contacting him. I feel almost bad for her. Even though, he did ask her about it, he almost left before I actually did. And Chuck didn’t bother to ask. I mean everybody is preoccupied about her safety, spying on her, protecting her in the shadow if needed, but they’re so preoccupied by keeping her safe, they almost don’t seem to pay attention to her anymore, to what’s going on in her life…

    – It was good to see a Bartowski family time. I kinda wish that we had a family dinner with at least Awesome and Sarah there though. Maybe next Monday before everything goes to hell in the final minutes.

    – Chuck’s covering up his lie with another lie… “I’m just an analyst.” Still didn’t liked it.

    – Chuck flashed but still couldn’t make the jump. Why’s that? I know flashing doesn’t mean you’re Superman like at the Café in Paris with Shaw, but still…

    – Chuck’s still trying to cover up his lies with another lies… “Every once in a while, I’ll still go off on, you know, a little field mission.” Really didn’t liked it.

    – I didn’t get why the Ring looking for Shaw’s spy will means he’s dead. Even if he were alive wouldn’t they want to keep those information anyway? Or is there a secret spy code, that even the bad guys respect, saying that you must respect spy wills and opened them only if the spy who wrote it is really dead, and not Bryce Larkin dead?!

    – Orion heard about Shaw before? When? Where? Casey and Sarah had never heard of him before they met him. And he knows Shaw’s a Ring expert. How much does Orion know, because we never even heard about the Ring until last season finale episode?

    – I like the whole spy will thing, it goes well with the dark tone of he season. “The reason a spy has to have one of those is because any mission they go on could be their last. For every spy, there’s someone who cares about them, someone who has to open that box, read that message, and mourn their loss.”

    – I liked that Morgan didn’t believe that Ellie would cheat, and that even if she did, it would be Devon’s fault! And that he referred himself as family “Okay, on behalf of the family”.

    – Awesome average day as a husband was hilarious! And Morgan’s reaction too! Joshua Gomez really made me laugh this season!

    – Then Chuck tries to lie… again. By saying “the CIA thinks I’m special even without the Intersect”, when he was the one claiming he was an ordinary guy a year ago, before re-intersecting. I just keep not getting Chuck about the lies.

    – Chuck telling his dad he left Ellie and him again. That was interesting to brought it up. I just didn’t really liked how he did it. But then his dad does the same thing than Chuck, must be in the Bartowski DNA, he goes doing something to protect his son without telling him about it. Wouldn’t it have been simpler to say, “ok then, I have to build a Governor for you”?!

    – I loved that Sarah spied on Chuck’s dad to get his address. That’s really thoughtful of her. “In the event that your dad ran off, I wanted you to be able to find him.” She really has his back. And I also liked how pleased she was to tell him! lol

    – The fight scene was nice. The way Chuck broke his chair was pretty cool and of course, Super-Spy Sarah with her axe! That was great, especially after all that crap this season, we haven’t seen her at her best.

    – His dad understood why Chuck downloaded the Intersect. That was a nice moment between the two. Reminded me of him saying to Chuck that if working at RI was what Chuck wanted to do then he should do it, and not think about his old father.

    – We hear once again a good reason for lie and omission: “I couldn’t tell you about it until now ’cause I needed to go back to my cabin to be sure.” Really? He couldn’t tell? Cause I’m pretty sure Chuck’s brain would react the same whether his dad could build a Governor or not. So I think he could have told him about it and say “I have to check, I’m going to my cabin”.

    – Casey looking after Ellie was pretty nice too.

    – The frying pan! Awesome! I agree with JC though. It would have been even better if we hadn’t seen it in the promo. Thank god the Bartowskis aren’t the killer type!

    – Sarah’s spy will. I loved the scene. It was pretty powerful. Huge moment I’d say. I liked how they showed us that she really put some thoughts into this. And I liked Chuck’s reaction. Mixed feelings of denial, and fear. And he tried to both reassured Sarah and himself.

    – I agree with you Jen when you said: “I got the feeling that even though we’ve been thinking of Sarah as the “emotionally constipated” one, she has a better idea of how to handle the relationship.” The last two episodes she showed trust, faith, support and commitment. Chuck lied, lied and lied. I know that’s not all he did but he still hasn’t say a thing. If it’s treatable, then he can tell her now. I don’t see what’s his excuse anymore.

    – Chuck deciding to write his spy will was pretty powerful too. It seems like the last step entering the spy world, acknowledging its danger, before the big finale.

    – Shaw alive? I don’t really care. Of course, this isn’t realistic though. Even if he could have survived, he recovered in less than 2 months? Maybe he has an evil twin, lol. But I think it’s a shame to reduce the Ring to a personal thing with Shaw story.

    – Also I don’t really see why he would want the Intersect. I thought he was the #1 spy… but who knows? This Intersect is probably a little different though, maybe more evil. And without a Governor he may not handle it well. I don’t see where the problem is with them having the Intersect, even without the plan we’ve seen in Other Guy, they still can have work and find what was wrong.

    I’m pretty excited to see the season final. And 2 hours, it’s gonna be huge. I’m a little concerned though about what will happen and what it will mean for season 4. I’m also concerned about the cliffhanger, I sense a tortured summer over what will happen!

    • jason says:

      crumby the earrings & sarah still wearing them – sarah wearing earrings her ex gave her, I would interpret that as somewhat having feelings for the guy or the moment given, it seems wierd – what are the writers getting at with that – I mean, the guy tried to kill her – still wearing his earings – she was slinking in her chair, but she wasn’t exactly acting defensive about anything, almost more asking chuck if he could handle it – I’ve only watched once, will be interested to watch again, sort of a confusing scene on first take?

      • John says:

        I guess I don’t get that perspective at all. I use stuff that my exes gave me and I have no feelings for them. It is just stuff you might as well use it unless it is something symbolic like a wedding ring or something.

        Is the expectation you are supposed to burn everything after a failed relationship? In that case I missed the memo.

      • Crumby says:

        Yeah that’s why I felt like Chuck was the one more annoyed. She really acted like it was no big deal for her, but was concerned for Chuck.

        I think she, like, attained a stage with her relationship with Chuck where any other relationship doesn’t compare anyway. OK that’s may be my shipper side talking!

        I sense Chuck tensed about it also when his dad ask about what happened to him and he said something like “the mission’s over” very coldly.

      • Ingrid says:

        I wouldn’t take the earrings thing to mean too much, personally… they were from Tiffany’s… so I can definitely see her wearing them without any lingering emotional attachment for the guy who gave them to her.

      • jason says:

        john – no memo to be read – just an opinion – and trying to get others input as to why the earrings were included – I note a bit of ‘burning’ sarcasm in your little diatribe – nice

      • Crumby says:

        I don’t know John, jewellery is kind of special. It doesn’t bother me though. I just think that if she was “traumatized” by what happened she wouldn’t wear them. The guy isn’t just an ex, she killed his wife, he tried to kill her, he turned to the Ring and betrayed his country. But I guess, nothing stops Sarah Walker! 😉

      • atcdave says:

        I sympathize with Chuck on this one. Even knowing she choose him before finding out Shaw was trying kill her, she doesn’t need to keep momentos of him around. Don’t get me wrong, its a lesser issue than Chuck’s lying, but it is an issue.
        I’ve encouraged my wife to rid of gifts from exes over the years. Its not like I grill her over all the possessions she brought into our marriage, but if we both know it was from another guy, we really don’t need it in our home.

      • John says:

        My apologies Jason sarcasm seems to flow from me even at times when it is not appropriate.

      • John says:

        Anyway the whole Casey grilling Sarah scene was supposed to be funny. If it bothers you for any reason just ignore it, it is only for comic relief and has no significance at all besides Chuck flashing on the building name. I don’t think the intention was to upset everybody, I think the show runners still do not get the anger alot of people still feel about the Sarah/Shaw thing.

      • jason says:

        john – I am sarcastic by nature too – as is my grown up son, I like that in people, but I constantly push the envelope – when I post here – about 75% of what I write I mean, about 25% I am trying to get discussion going in a direction, as this board has some wide open discussions on chuck issues that no board can compare with – most other boards break into ‘flaming’ sessions, for some reason, this place is able to stay on issue near 100% of the time, it is “AWESOME’ – credit to Joe and his cohorts!!!!!

      • odysszeuss says:

        @ jason – i’m 100% in your courtjard

    • Crumby says:

      Believe or not but I forgot something!

      Morgan was actually scared for his life in that ep! I was rather fearless or careless before, but Shaw seems to scared him!!!

      • weaselone says:

        Are we talking about when he hears Chuck’s revelation about Shaw or when Sarah confronts him in Castle, because I’m sure his life flashes before his eyes in both scenes.

      • Crumby says:

        LOL 🙂

    • Jen says:

      I dont’ think she should have been wearing those earrings. Maybe she just doens’t care that much about th ewhole Shaw thing. I wouldn’t want anything from a guy that tried to kill me.

      in regards to her relationship with Shaw, any “seriousness” in teh relatiohsip i think is just cause she had really given up on Chuck and on herself, but not cause seh was commited to Shaw in her heart.

    • Crumby says:

      Am I the only one who’s been a little bothered by Chuck keeping telling his dad how much he was special?

      Not that I don’t think he is, and I’m not against a little confidence, but it irks me a little when we used to here him say all the time that he was just a normal guy.

      But maybe it’s part of his childhood issues. Like “what dad you don’t think I’m special to work for the CIA?”

  31. jason says:

    what a detailed bit of writing, agreed with a bunch of it, obviously the sham part I did not like, but anyhow, all the lying, I think it will directly lead to the death, and teach chuck once and for all to not lie, I still think it is awesome who dies saving ellie, and chuck’s (and team B’s) deception to ellie will be considered the lesson of the season at a very high price …. the spy business is not about lying, it is about telling the truth to those you love and need to trust / protect. Don’t doubt Papa B (although it could be sarah and / or casey) will be the one to summarize this lesson to chuck – contrasting how papa B and mama B handled it wrongly way back when, hence the flashbacks?

    • Crumby says:

      Yeah I got a little carried away…

      • atcdave says:

        Actually Crumby, that was a great and epic post! I agree with almost every point. You mentioned about every permutation of the lying issue; Chuck really does need to cut that out if we’re going to relate to him. A good likeable everyman was sort of the original theme of this show, the lying is a very damaging thing they are doing to that theme.

      • Crumby says:

        Thanks Dave 😉 ! There is so much in this show, you can’t comment on pretty much every second!

        About the lying, I just couldn’t believe it myself.

        I mean:
        1/ I quit
        2/ I’m an analyst
        3/ I’m an analyst that sometimes gets to go on the field
        4/ I’m the Intersect

        He just couldn’t stop!

      • John says:

        Yeah it was driving me nuts.

        Besides his dad is freaking Orion it was not like he wasn’t going to find out. He even knew who Shaw was.

      • weaselone says:

        I’m going to give Chuck a pass, pretend those lies didn’t happen stick this one squarely to the writers. They just took it too far. I can see Chuck’s first lie and then holding back about the Intersect, but they just took it overboard. He should have told the initial lie, but not drug Sarah into it. That was just a completely atrocious use of what could have been a touching introduction of Sarah to his father as his girlfriend.

        Then you move on to Orion confronting Chuck after dinner when Ellie leaves. Chuck comes clean about being an agent, but withholds the Intersect until the letter opener scene.

        The same thing happened during the interrogation of Sarah Walker. They took it too far.

      • Crumby says:

        Yeah they took it really far AND haven’t resolved it yet.

      • Ernie Davis says:

        It is sort of a Schwartz pattern to take things a bit too far in S3 in an effort to one-up himself from what I understand.

      • cas says:

        Also a Schwartz pattern to shoot and/or kill a main Character in Season 3. A pattern of declining audience in season 3, losing them completely in season 4, and not getting them back in time for season 5.

      • atcdave says:

        It is funny how one of the more troubling aspects for many of us (myself included) is Chuck dragging Sarah into his lies. The same Sarah who has been one of the most truth challenged characters in recent memory (or at least most truth challenged heroic character!).

  32. weaselone says:

    I think the Chuck lying vs. Sarah lying reaction is an interesting. In both cases, they lied or held back information to protect the other.

    Sarah’s omission with Chuck wasn’t about the details of the relationship, but the extent. It’s the classic “Oh, he’s just some guy I went out on a couple dates with in High School” response. Chuck’s original view of the relationship was that Shaw and Sarah were colleagues that had become friends and were on the verge of beginning a romantic relationship when he crashed their date. This is what Sarah allowed Chuck to continue to believe and indeed supported with her lies. The truth on the other hand is that the relationship was quite serious. Sarah had real plans to relocate to DC with Shaw. They went of grid together for a day and spent it in his bachelor pad. He’d purchased her expensive jewelry. She told Chuck the trip was all business and never corrected that misconception after they started dating.

    Chuck’s lie is obviously a bit more serious, as it can inflict serious damage. He doesn’t tell Sarah to keep her from worrying about him. I suppose he wants to spend the time he has enjoying life with her as opposed to mourning his future downfall. It’s also a lie that is bound to come out and it’s in Chuck and Sarah’s best interest that she find out about it in comfortable circumstances while he still has the faculties to talk with her and console her as necessary. I’m hopeful that after Sarah provided him with her spy will that Chuck will get it through his thick skull that Sarah can handle a confession. She understands that either of them could die in their line of work at any time, but still finds pleasure in her life with him. There’s no reason to assume this wouldn’t remain the case even if she were informed of the Intersect hazards. Chuck writing his spy will and the words narrated leads me to believe he understands this and will come clean.

    I think the lying is most unfortunate in that it overshadows everything positive Chuck has done in the relationship. Crumby notes many positive contributions from Sarah, but only lies, lies and more lies from Chuck. Chuck has also contributed many positives, but many fans are hung up completely on the lies.

    • Crumby says:

      I completely agree weaselone. I knew when I wrote “lied, lied and lied” that I should say that it’s not all he did.

      For example, about the moving in thing he was very understanding, patient and supportive.

      I think that what bothers me here is that:
      1/ he had occasions to tell her and choose not to several times
      2/ there is plenty of ways she could learn about it (Beckman must know)
      3/ she proved him than even being crazy she wouldn’t leave him
      4/ his life is in danger and she has a right to know
      5/ he promised her not to lie

      And he didn’t tell anyone. So we don’t really know his motives for hiding his condition. I guess I just don’t see his reason anymore. We know why he lies about the dreams, but not about his health.

      Also, he lied really often in that episode. At least 3 times to Sarah, and 4 times to his dad…

    • Crumby says:

      Just wanted to had that Chuck asked Sarah if she was going to move in with Shaw. So he must have known it was serious. You don’t just move in with anybody.

      • weaselone says:

        He thought it might be, but she denied, denied, denied. There doesn’t seem to be any effort on her part to come clean.

        Of course, Chuck’s been content to let Sarah continue to wallow in her opinion that he’s OK which is the worse omission.

      • Crumby says:

        I didn’t feel like she denied. She said she didn’t know. That it was different, sure. But in American Hero she said “I’m going to Washington, I’m going with Shaw”, “I’ve made a commitment, not just to Shaw”. I mean Chuck saved Shaw because he knew “how much she cared about him”.

        But she did say that DC was a work trip however.

      • weaselone says:

        That would actually make it somewhat worse because Chuck originally believed it to be serious and Sarah somehow convinced him in the intervening period it was not, or allowed Chuck to convince himself.

      • odysszeuss says:

        or allowed Chuck to convince himself.

        well said!!! Sarah hasn’t lied directly… washington at the first place: it was work related…

      • Crumby says:

        I just think he was in denial, or didn’t want to think about it. And she probably just never talked about it.

        I don’t see it as lie, more like an omission, or something you don’t want to talk about. But I don’t think that Chuck ask about it after they got together and Sarah said that nothing happened.

        I don’t think you need to talk about all the things you did with all of your exes. Doesn’t mean you’re lying.

        But in the end it doesn’t really matter because Shaw is either dead or crazy.

        Chuck’s health is a really different issue.

    • lucian says:

      Since The Mask, I think it was pretty clear to Chuck that Sarah and Shaw’s relationship was both personal and professional. He had no qualms about skipping into Castle with his box of donuts after a fun night with Hannah. Several other occassions between The Mask and American Hero where Chuck was aware that he had lost Sarah as a girlfriend. What was poor storytelling, IMO, is the fact that it took them until last night to admit there was a relationship. Sarah’s comment that she was committed to D.C. was not just Shaw (but the implication was, Shaw was a big part of it).

      As much as I think they really did Sarah a disservice in how she was portrayed this season, I don’t think there was much of a question that her relationship with Shaw was “personal”. What was somewhat sad was that she seemed somewhat depressed by it up until “the Other Guy”. So, after their fun trip to D.C., she is actually looking forward to life with Daniel (and is far more willing to save his life than she was Chuck’s).

  33. gabbo says:

    The problem with all of this analysis, good as it is, is that it depends on TPTB telling a logical story. That no longer exists. It’s clear they will have the characters do or say anything required to drive the plot.

    The whole history-of-Shaw-relationship thing is an example. It’s all for one cheap joke–any you REALLY have to stretch to imagine that Sarah would wear earrings from a guy who tried to off her–and one bit of info: Shaw had the CIA build him a safe. That info would have been in any file about him, thus eliminating the need for the scene in the first place. After all, if it’s in the Intersect, it’s in the files.

    To be honest, I think these guys have run out of story. Hence the repeat of the Bryce scenario (back from the dead, implausibly, but this time the zombie DOES download the intersect).

    And besides, if the Ring was so interested in building an intersect, why would they have killed Roark?

    It’s not just that the plotholes are bad now, the plotholes ARE the plot. That is a sure sign that the show has largely gone beyond serious analysis.

    Season 4 is going to be ugly, I think…

    And maybe that “spoof” video for Comicon, which Fedak saying he didn’t have an ideas for Chuck after the “I know Kung Fu” moment, was true. After all, there’s no evidence of any coherent storytelling or consistent character action this year.

    • Merve says:

      I hate to break it to you, but Chuck has been completely illogical since the pilot episode. Analyzing it has always been pointless. The only reason we do it is because we’re crazy fans.

      • atcdave says:

        You’re right of course. But it seemed like in the first two seasons the characters themselves were more consistant.

      • Merve says:

        I’d agree about that with regards to season 2, as far as Chuck and Sarah go. (I think that the supporting characters have been a bit more consistent this season, however.) But in season 1, Sarah’s character was all over the place. Part of that is because her character is so ill-defined for most of that season; I really only got a sense of the nature of her character in season 2.

        I’m not trying to be difficult here. I’ve read a lot of intelligent analysis of season 1, but so much of it is viewed through the lens of events that took place in season 2. Sarah taking a picture with Chuck in “Sandworm,” Sarah kissing Chuck at the end of “Imported Hard Salami,” Sarah admitting to Casey that she wants a normal life in “Crown Vic,” Sarah looking on longingly at Devon and Ellie celebrating their engagement in “Marlin” – all of these things take on a new meaning or make more sense after watching season 2. Season 1 led me to believe that Sarah had come to appreciate normalcy and family because of Chuck, but season 2 painted a different picture of Sarah always wanting those things deep down. I suppose that if I were in a very critical mood, I could label that as “inconsistent characterization” or “character retcon,” but I choose to simply change my original perceptions in light of new information.

        Where season 3 went wrong for many people, I think, is that the audience was confronted with new information that we simply didn’t like. So this time, we called it “inconsistent characterization” or “character retcon,” rather than simply accepting it and changing our perceptions as we did in the past. I definitely understand the frustration and I have felt some of it myself (especially watching how poorly Sarah’s and Devon’s characters has been served in season 3). But from a purely objective standpoint, it’s an inconsistent way to view and interpret what we see.

        I know that I sound like a broken record here, but so many of the criticisms levelled at season 3 could also be fairly applied to the first two seasons. I certainly haven’t been a fan of everything that’s been done this season, and in my books, season 2 is miles ahead of season 3, but I think that when applying criticism, one must be fair. To act as if some of season 3’s problems aren’t problems that have always existed with the show seems a little disingenuous to me.

      • jason says:

        merve – we don’t always see eye to eye, but I agree with you, would even take it further, S3 was not written more sloppily or inconsistently than S1/ S2 – or was better than most other tv shows – BUT …. as long as CS were held within some bound of angst, fans did not care, when those bounds were ‘explored’ (to use fedak’s term) in S3, fans then held the scripts to a different std, mostly CS related scripts, but as the limits were pushed episode after episode, fans got nastier (I was one of the worst) toward the script inconsistencies. This all is opinion of course …..

      • atcdave says:

        Merve, I’m still not sure what you find inconsistent in S1. We don’t know much about Sarah until S2, but I don’t really see any conflicts there. In S1 she’s a serious professional, with a heart. As the season goes we see she clearly likes her asset, which leads her to some thoughts about friends and family. I don’t think we ever know more about she prioritizes those issues until S3 (her “normal” dreams were in fact tied entirely to Chuck). We suspect as early as 1.08 that her feelings for Chuck run quite deep, and know that to be true by 1.13. But we really know nothing about her background until S2 (honestly, I suspected some of that was retconned at the time, but it wasn’t damaging or a big deal, so whatever…)

        I think the hardest part about S3 was that we learned a lot negative about a character most of us had few negative feelings about beforehand. My cry all along hasn’t been so much OOC but “no fun.” I could be convinced of the “truth” of S3, and really have been on several counts. But they can never convince me I enjoyed it. This episode FORCED us to re-examine things many of us would rather forget. The best thing they can do with Shaw, is ignore him. I’m OK with him as a pure baddie, but I’d rather a big show down against someone else. I think Emmitt was a much better bad guy, maybe he could get resurrected and intersected; then seek his vengeance against Chuck and the Buy More!

      • John says:

        I was thinking that next they would bring Emmitt back, but this time with super strong pepper spray guns of death.

    • John says:


      I think the whole plot of Chuck has been pretty absurd from the beginning. It never made any sense…but I think the show runners are becoming more and more tolerant of the absurdity as a staple of the show with regards to the plot points. The important parts are the characters so naturally we spend most of our time talking about Chuck lying and Sarah’s earrings and Morgan’s lampshade hanging. The only thing I might disagree a bit with you here is the idea they will have the characters do anything…well sometimes they stretch it a bit but I do think each character has a distinctive voice that they do not deviate from very often.

      But generally I agree with what you are saying I guess all I can say is that it does not bother me much. It is just how the show rolls.

    • gabbo says:

      I disagree. There is the suspension of disbelief on the premise, of course. But a show like Chuck needs to be character driven. If the characters are not show to act consistently and grow (or regress) in some logical pattern, there can be no analysis.

      Up to and through Colonel, virtually everything the characters did made sense if you understood them. But the third season has been bizarre. And not bizarre by concept, but by writing and what they force the characters to do.

      Sarah wants to run away and that’s why she beats up Chuck in the bo scene, but finally agrees to go with him in American Hero when he suggests a runaway. (Remember all the commentary of her head nod at the mention of Mexico).

      But, oh, wait, Sarah didn’t want to run away at all.

      Sarah is/isn’t in a relationship with Shaw until episodes later everything is dragged out for a silly joke and a useless plot point. Sarah is or isn’t serious about her relationship with Shaw and her point of view and her supposed actions shift as each individual episode requires. In Final Exam, it was “different” from hers and Chuck because the episode required her to say that. In Living Dead, they reveal that they were rather seriously being a couple because they want to tell a joke.

      So if next week Sarah decides she really cares about Shaw after all and should be with him instead of Chuck, that’s cool because nothing makes sense anyway?

      Chuck is being trained to go solo–unless he’s being trained to run a team. So if next week it’s revealed he’s okay with Sarah leaving him for Shaw because he really wants to go solo, that’s cool because nothing makes sense anyway?

      The only reason virtually all of us became fans is because we like and care about the characters. The moment the characters become plot points rather than people you can understand and relate to on some level is the moment the show stops mattering.

      The spy stuff in Chuck has always been silly. Jeffster and Buy More are silly. That’s part of the sit you accept.

      But the moment the characters become silly, trivial and devoid of logical action is the moment the show stops mattering.

      • John says:

        Shaw was working hard on the seduction with the gifts and so forth and Sarah was enjoying the attention. That is different than what she had with Chuck. I guess I found nothing shocking or unexpected or out of character at all about that scene. And it was funny on top of that. I do see that some people are flipping out about the earrings or the idea that Sarah ever touched Shaw is the worst thing ever and totally out of character. I don’t see it, it is totally in her character to do so. She likes nice things and being treated special and she thought what she had with Chuck was dead blah blah. We have been over all this ground before.

        And running away was something she wanted to save Chuck and then Chuck went to the runaway plan to try to win her back. Of course when they actually ran away together they discovered something about themselves and what they really wanted and that sometimes fantasy and reality don’t match up. I did not see anything jarring about that either.

        And to be a spy you have to be able to work alone and in teams.

        So there you go. I do not see anything that warrants the idea the characters are becoming trivial, silly, or devoid of logical action. That is what is the strength of the show, despite all the absurdities, and from where I sit it still looks strong in that department to me.

      • Ernie Davis says:

        I generally agree with you Gabbo, I said much the same thing before the season started. Messing with the characters is dangerous, and I think they did some damage that was unnecessary for the sake of a plotline dragged out far too long and a darker tone that didn’t really fit the pre-established characters. I think the thing I come back to is that this was a season where the characters changed a lot, and to show that change we needed to see them act, perhaps not out of character, but in ways we hadn’t seen before. Both Chuck and Sarah were put in situations where we’d never seen them before, and we were surprised by the way they handled things. In previous seasons their real relationship under the fake relationship was always played under the surface and subtly. Neither character could stray too far from the other given that fake relationship, so there was a limited amount of available angst.

        This season, having done away with the fake relationship TPTB felt free to indulge in what they assumed the audience responded to in the relationship, the angst, when it seems that what the audience really was responding to was the chemistry and how they never really gave up on each other. So the first thing they did was have the characters give up on each other. Sort of.

        As far as a lot of the seemingly contradictory behavior, most of it can be understood if you accept that the characters themselves aren’t sure of what they want, and it keeps changing. Chuck finds a sense of purpose and wants to make a difference. Free to follow that path for the first time in his life perhaps he chooses it over a relationship that never really got off the ground, until Sarah asked him after the fact to give it up and run with her. Sarah decides to leave the spy life for Chuck, but doesn’t let him know until he’s made an irreversible decision, to intersect. At that point he doesn’t feel like he can choose to run and she feels rejected by the man she loves.

        So as the season progresses Chuck sees more and more of the ugly parts of spying, but manages to overcome them, and Sarah starts to believe she’s lost Chuck forever. Having lost Chuck her fallback is Agent Walker and the next mission. Unfortunately that means finishing this mission, which is making Chuck into a spy, which Chuck seems all too happy to become.

        When it comes down to the final test Sarah’s mission is to give Chuck the order and the gun to assassinate a man, something she’s clearly uncomfortable with to say the least. Chuck finds that to be a spy he’s told he has to kill a man in cold blood, making him re-evaluate the whole spy thing. Both are swept up in events, but both clearly re-thinking things when Chuck gives his next run away speech. They are both willing to run because both have just experienced something that made them re-think what they were willing to do to be spies and wonder if they crossed lines they shouldn’t have.

        Once they actually establish boundaries and what they are willing to do or give up to be spies, and they finally talk, the CRM that was used to drive the angsty plot was pretty much resolved.

        I think it comes down to a matter of personal taste, how much each of us is willing to allow the characters to change to tell a story we may or may not like. In the end it’s always going to be a very individual thing. I think most of us would agree it wasn’t always done particularly well this season, and hopefully TPTB learned from that. We have provided a wealth of analysis and context should they still be confused.

      • HenryH says:

        Gabbo: I’d have to say I’m pretty much with you on this. There just doesn’t seem to be any way to predict/depend on how the characters act or think anymore. And the past analysis is all out the window because TPTB keep changing the basic precepts they asked you to believe before.

        They’ve got Casey swinging between shipper and outright taunter of Chuck and Sarah. And while he’s taunting, he’s agreeing to watch over Ellie because he promised Chuck.

        Morgan is manning up against a tiger one week and cowering in fear over a dead guy the next week.

        The Chuck-Sarah-Shaw thing is simply beyond absurd. What the characters claim and feel (and what TPTB seem pained to want us to think) changes from episode to episode. Chuck heroically rescues Shaw in American Hero because he knows Sarah cares about him and now Chuck’s shocked to learn they were in a relationship? He asked whether Sarah was moving with Shaw in Final Exam, but he’s stunned to think they weren’t “strictly business” on Washington trips?

        And Chuck lashing out at his dad? NOW? A year after Chuck himself finally understands how the spy life goes, he’s STILL angry about the choices his father made to protect them? Last year, he understood. This year, he forgot?

        It’s not that the show has gotten bad, it’s become a soap opera. And as much as I have liked these characters, I don’t do soap operas. I’ll say what I said at the worst moments of Mask/Fake Name: I’ll watch through the end of the season because I commited to it.

        But I am simply not sure I care enough to commit to a Season 4.

      • John says:

        I think this is a good example of what Ernie was talking about. It really is a matter of personal taste. I see nothing particularly absurd and contradictory in most of what Henry is saying. It is not odd at all to poke fun at people while still seriously being fond of them, Casey has done that forever. It is not odd at all to be courageous in the moment, when your friends are in danger, but scared of something that exists only as a shadowy threat out there someplace.

        But that might be too much for some people to take. It just doesn’t bother me and I see nothing particularly implausible about it. Besides normal people have contradictions and are not always 100% predictable but in all those examples I think they are totally IC. But we simply disagree on that, matter of taste.

      • Merve says:

        Chuck goes out with Lou because Sarah won’t admit her feelings but seconds from death, Sarah kisses him. Then Chuck breaks it off with Lou but Sarah’s old flame Bryce comes back from the dead and makes out with Sarah in Chuck’s bedroom.

        That sounds like a soap opera to me.

      • atcdave says:

        I mostly agree with Ernie’s post, except that I would make a bigger thing of how poorly things were executed. And I would add my usual point about the foolishness of certain decisions TPTB made before filming ever even started, namely using outside LIs at all this season.

      • cas says:

        Didn’t Shaw apologize to Sarah during their date (Am Hero) something like ” I’m sorry we did’t to this sooner” Well according to last nights ep, they have..???

      • John says:

        Actually I did think of that during the interrogation scene. ‘Wait didn’t Shaw say they haven’t just gone out on a romantic date yet?’

        Attention to plot details is odd because sometimes the show makes a point of mentioning them and other times it is as if something never happened or was said. Like Casey using his cover name when calling his mom, just a gag but we are supposed to forget it was ever said.

      • John says:

        You know how I feel about the PLIs Dave 😉 at least this season.

        Fortuately that is water under the bridge now.

      • jason says:

        the type of divisive posting here today shows the foolhardiness of poking fun at the sham relationship in 3.17, it was a great episode, but even if the casey taunting CS was funny, to place sham front and center in an episode that contains shaw’s return as the show’s star character – just exasperated the split in the fan base that was just starting to heal. Oh well, 6 more days until we find out however schwartz decided to screw us all – cause he is going to, then a slow summer of spoilers where he gradually tries to reel fans back in – at some point the villagers quit listening to the little boy who cried wolf – wonder if chuck fans are any smarter than a village of peasant farmers?

      • John says:

        Yeah I totally agree. The fanbase had basically kissed and made up and was ready to move on and then they had to dump the Shaw grenade on us. I knew it would be a wild week on the forums. You would almost think the showrunners are toying with us…

      • cas says:

        Either that or they just simply don’t know the characters they have created and their history as much as the fan do.

      • Merve says:

        Or it was just a series of lame jokes that backfired.

      • HenryH says:

        With all due respect, you suffer because you come to the show in Season 3 for the first time.

        For those of us who’ve been with the show since the pilot, we have the advantage of watching the show chronologically, as it was originally aired.

        So the Chuck-Sarah-Bryce triangle was FIRST and was ended logically when Sarah a) stayed in Crown Vic and b) rejected Bryce in Break-Up. It wasn’t soap opera when it happened. It was the ONLY time it happened.

        Now that we’ve had two more seasons of silliness the developments have become soap opera.

        But you can’t say Season 3 is good (which you continually do) and make believe it is of a piece with what has gone before. Things don’t have equal weight. Things come in an order. They’re not one pile of stuff.

        What has gone before was FIRST. When you see the same game played a second or a third time, you tire of the gimmick.

        Or forget the romance. Bringing back Bryce from the dead was a stretch, but it was FIRST and NEW and the viewer could connect with it. Now you see them reusing the device with Shaw back from the dead and your eyes roll. Not because Shaw back from the dead is any more or less plausible than Bryce back from the dead, but because they’ve already used the device once and the second time is tiring.

        So if you seriously want to talk about this show, do it fairly: Consider the chronology and what is new and what it a repeat in the context that it was aired.

        Chuck doesn’t start in Season 3. It starts in Season 1. And saying Season 1 is stupid because the same thing happened in Season 3 is inane ret-conning. Season 3 is stupid because they used the same devices in Season 1 and/or Season 2.

        Chronology matters. Don’t try to make believe it doesn’t.

      • John says:

        I meant bringing back Shaw and bringing up that stuff in general. Even if that one scene with the interrogation of Sarah (which I thought was hilarious, a nice callback to Casey doing that in previous seasons) never happened things would still be in an uproar just by the Shaw-centricness of the plot.

      • weaselone says:

        HenryH, I’m sorry if my posts might have added to some of the confusion, but I’m pretty certain that Chuck realized that there was something serious going on between Sarah and Shaw even in this episode. I don’t think he was shocked accept by the fact that she didn’t tell him the truth. He realized there was a relationship, but took it on faith that DC was about business. Mostly though, I don’t think Chuck wanted to hear about Sarah’s dalliances with Shaw any more than Sarah wanted to hear them.

        As for Chuck lashing out at his father. He didn’t do it so much because he abandoned Ellie and Him decades ago so much as he disappeared AGAIN without a word following the wedding. It’s not an old issue he’s finally dredging up, it’s the repeat performance.

      • HenryH says:

        No, I understand your posts. Of course Chuck knew about a relationship. Anyone who was paying attention KNEW. That was the point.

        But then TPTB tried to retcon it in American Hero for effect. And now, when they want to drag the relationship out for a joke and a plot point in Living Dead, they have Chuck babbling about “meetings,” which is a callback to Sarah’s excuse in some earlier episode.

        As for the Orion thing, are you suggesting that Papa B gave Ellie a way to contact him but not Chuck? And in Pink Slip, Chuck told Beckman he wanted to get in touch with his father to work on the Intersect.

        No, I don’t think you can say Orion left without a word to Chuck after Ring.

        And that’s my problem with the show now. Canon means nothing. Character traits mean nothing. They reach for whatever drives the plot in an individual episode.

        That’s a show killer. Season 3 is TOTALLY tactical, an episode-by-episode thing. When you put them together, the narrative and the characters fall apart. And that makes the show increasingly difficult to watch and take seriously.

      • jason says:

        1.9 rating again last night – vs house final, DWTS was down too, next week a 2 hour chuck vs a 2 hour DWTS vs a 2 hr series ending ’24’ – 1.9 probably a good guess again?

      • atcdave says:

        Just a quick reminder everyone, let’s play nice.

        We’re all here because we love this show. I may not understand the position of someone who loves S3 any more than they get me adoring S1. But let’s keep this a friendly debate and exchange of thoughts and ideas.

        After all, the only real villian here is JS (kidding!); would you believe Shaw!

      • John says:

        Yeah there is no reason to think we will not stick to 1.9s for the next episode.

        Hopefully they will go up for the season finale but it would not surprise me. Just a month of bad ratings news for us.

        However it seems C+3 is the ratings people are using more these days and Chuck looks a little better using that metric.

      • John says:

        Well Henry I will agree with you on the plots not being very coherent from week to week. That has been my observation for awhile now.

        I hope they do a better job of it next season. In fact this would be a good time to let that criticism be known to those who make the decisions since they are doing the season 4 stuff now.

      • weaselone says:

        He still essentially left. Yes, they could contact him via a coded message placed in the classified adds, but I doubt Ellie and Chuck were in regular correspondence with dear old dad.

      • gabbo says:

        John, I don’t have a problem with Shaw as a villain. He’s ALREADY better as a villain than he was as a hero. But I resent the reuse of the back-from-the-dead gimmick. And the retconning of what and how characters interacted with him.

        Season 3 has been poor, IMHO. But they keep making it worse. Even in Honeymooners, the neither-one-of-us-really-wanted-to-run-away stuff was insanely destructive. It totally robs Pink Slip and Three Words of emotional impact. (Why does the bo scene matter now if Sarah never wanted to run away in the first place and she had heard Chuck say “I love you”? What the hell is Sarah mad about, then?) It totally trashes Chuck’s “You were right in Prague” speech that finally wins Sarah in American Hero.

        As I say, Season 3 was pretty lame. But everything they’ve done in Season 3.5 has made it worse. As HenryH has done so much better than I in his posts, the case has been made that TPTB have stopped writing to character or even caring about whether the characters are going, changing and evolving in any logical pattern.

        It’s anything for a joke now, anything for a plot point now, anything for effect now.

        The characters are just plot devices now. It’s hard to be invested in plot devices.

      • John says:

        Well gabbo I think we just have to agree to disagree about the running away thing. I see it differently and it doesn’t seem all that odd. They still seem pretty consistent as characters to me.

        The plots across episodes and so forth is still shaky. It doesn’t bother me that much but I do wish they had more attention to continuity and detail. It shows professionalism and investment on the writers part but frankly since they mostly work within episodes it mostly comes from the showrunners I think.

        But even with all the problems, that I mostly acknowledge, I still really love the show. They could certainly do better though.

      • JC says:

        HenryH brings up my major complaint with the S/S relationship. The only time it was shown was to move the plot forward, the rest of time it was made out to be nothing. Episode to episode it was changed to fit what the TPTB needed to move the story forward.

        The same goes with the Intersect being a solo operation. Bryce was to have a team in Ring so we could have the drama of Sarah leaving. But that changes in Season 3 because we need new drama of Chuck working alone. And once again it changes back to working as a Team in 3.5.

      • Merve says:

        Henry, I usually don’t find it necessary to defend myself, but I have watched the entire series in order from the beginning. I watched seasons 1 and 2 in order last summer. Season 3 was not my introduction to the show.

        The season 1 soap opera plot that I outlined bothered me when I first watched it. I almost didn’t watch season 2 because of it. If it bothered you more the second time that it happened, that’s your opinion. It’s not my opinion, and it’s certainly not fact.

        I especially don’t appreciate the insinuation that fans who watched the first two seasons all in one go or fans who came to the show in season 3 are somehow less qualified to analyze the show than those who have watched it in real time from its premiere. I have seen the entire series. I know what happened and I know in what order it happened. I don’t mind constructive criticism or opposing viewpoints, but I resent false accusations.

      • ChuckNewbie8 says:

        In all honesty I think there is a difference. When you watch these episodes on a weekly basis your emotional investment, at least the ones you remember are far more involved and magnified than watching it as a whole where the things that would otherwise frustrate you for a week, 2-3 weeks are a flash in the pan. You view the happenings on with a more critical eye as opposed to an emotional one.

        Someone who would have watched S3 as a long spell probably wouldn’t find the shaw arc to be distasteful because they see the full picture quickly and one after the other. The inonsistencies wouldn’t bother them as much. You’re not forced to dwell and face and fear the uncertainty of the show’s direction.

        Think of it this way. Someone who were to watch the entire season in one full sweep wouldn’t understand our almost therapeutic dronings on for weeks on end leading up to Other Guy and starting with Pink Slip. It wouldn’t be the same for that person.

        Which is not to say your opinions aren’t equally valid but it’s certainly different.

        Anyways I have a really bad headache and I find that I’m more often than not having to convince myself the episode was good rather than just believing it from the get go.

      • atcdave says:

        I do notice a difference that viewers who came later generally seemed less concerned with Chuck and Sarah having one last fling before they got together. I’m not suggesting Merve or any other viewer actually LIKED the romantic aspect of 3.0; but it does seem viewers who came later were less invested in seeing something good happen sooner.

        I suppose its because, like Faith (sorry, CN8 today!) said, they didn’t agonize over this stuff for weeks at a time. When we reached April 2009, most of us were so ready for the WT/WT to end already, we got really excited over Colonel and embraced as a real change in direction for the show. We really celebrated with each other and for the characters we loved. We had several weeks to be very happy about things and discuss what direction we thought things would go. When TPTB disclosed their plans at ComiCon in 7/2009 we all let out a huge NOOOOOOO! (yes, I’m exagerating and using irony).

        My point is just that the response will be different between people who have 3 years of emotional investment and those who signed up more recently. I hope no one takes that to mean newer viewers opinions are less valuable. The comparitive detachment of newer viewers gives them a perspective some of grizzled vets (sorry about the grizzled part Faith!) don’t have. I’ll even take it a step further and say S3 was written for the newbies, TPTB obviously decided they don’t value the opinions of the established fans (even when they claim otherwise).

      • jason says:

        i watched s1/s2 in jan 2010, in a very short period of time, after seeing 1 or 2 eps on sci fi – I hated the shaw arc, I think it has more to do with how you overall view LI’s and / or view the chuck / sarah story – I view the series ‘chuck’ as somewhat marginal, I view the Chuck / sarah / casey / ellie character story as superb (sorry – morgan, awesome, beckman, and the moronians not so much, except morgan s3 has been good) – hence – I found s3 distasteful after really enjoying 1 & 2, I assume it was the lack of fun, lack of screen time for CS, lack of heartwarming time, etc – I have found others tastes to be quite different – a problem chuck has is a lack of a cohesive story the each week satisfies its base, as its base itself is somewhat diverse?

      • Merve says:

        Dave and CN8, I’m sorry if I wasn’t clear. I agree that there is certainly a different viewpoint gained from watching a series all in one go rather than on a weekly basis. What I take issue with is the notion that one perspective leads to a deeper or more correct understanding than the other.

      • josh says:

        Since this seems to be the vent portion of the discussion can I just say what bugged me? The whole OMG Chuck is lying it’s UNBELIEVEABLE from Mask/Fake name, to Chuck lying to his dad right in front of Sarah and her not batting an eyelid. That bugged me.

        The Shaw/Sarah stuff, not so much, I never much subscribed to the whole Sarah rule so I kinda assumed two grownups spending a bunch of time together as an couple would be having sex instead of playing Risk all day. But the partial rewriting of history they do every couple of episodes is annoying. It feels a bit like a seesaw, like they want to go somewhere, are not sure how to get there so they retroactively pencil in bits and pieces here and there to help the story along.

        PS I promise you there is someone somewhere that things invoking fan reaction, even mini apocalypses is good for the show. Trust me on this.

      • Chuck604 says:

        I watched Seasons 1 and 2 in a two week stretch right around the Olympic break. I started watching Chuck after the Fake Name. I actually wanted to watch the premiere of this season but missed it because I was out of the country on holiday.

        I really liked Seasons 1 and 2, I really didn’t like the middle of season 3. However, I really enjoyed the episodes from American Hero onward. It does bug me, and I have mentioned it before, that Chuck and Sarah acted the way they did up until the Final Exam; based on how they felt for each other in the previous 2 seasons and what they have already done for one another (ie Sarah going AWOL in Colonel and was going to stay with Chuck at the end of the Ring, etc.). But only to a certain extent, but I like where Chuck and Sarah are now. Even with they lying because I believe they will find a way to resolve themselves.

        But like Merve and others have mentioned, everyone will be affected differently. Individuals will have varying takes from episode to episode, and the season as a whole. But I like where it’s at right now, IMHO.

      • ChuckNewbie8 says:

        I have no stats, or facts about this…just my feelings/views.

        I can’t help but think the 1.9s after what is generally a positive up-tick is about the return of Shaw. I think there are people who were fans that have been turned off by Shaw returned and loved the in betweens but every reminder of Shaw (it’s not rational) and they turn it off. That’s my reasoning for 1.9s. The episodes themselves are great and watchable but just having him there (much less the improbability of him returning from the dead after an exhilarating farewell) well I think some people are turned off and the numbers are showing that.

        Again, no stats, no real factual evidence…JMO.

      • atcdave says:

        I think when they started work on the back six, they really didn’t know yet just how hated Shaw would be by the fans. And obviously, not just in the bad guy sense of the word. He sort of represents everything that’s ever been done wrong with the show. Again, that’s why I think he won’t be back next season. Even if he somehow survives the epic showdown next week, I think he will just not come back in S4.

  34. odysszeuss says:

    hey, you guys (and girls) are incredible. everything i was thinking about: it’s not only already said, mostly the discussions seem to finish coming to their end’s. it seems even hard to create a creative discussable POV. i have to re watch finding something nit-tipping, so i can join 😉

  35. cas says:

    Chuck season finale is two hours next week! Jeffster like you’ve never seen them! And the last two minutes change everything!!!
    about 3 hours ago via Tweetie

    • Merve says:

      Epic shocker! Sarah is revealed to be a robot!

      In all seriousness, if there’s a major twist coming in the last couple of minutes, I hope that it’s not something entirely out of the blue that was inserted just for the sake of having a twist. I guess we’ll see come next Monday.

    • John says:

      It always makes me nervous when JS starts getting excited about everything changing.

      What could it be? Presuming Shaw is dead maybe Chuck gets Chucknapped by the Ring to secure the intersect and Sarah has to rescue him starting in season 4? Eh good thing they didn’t end the series on that two minute everything changing note.

      • Merve says:

        My guess is that Devon, Ellie, and Morgan are forced to go underground, while Chuck and Sarah are relocated elsewhere. I don’t know what would happen to Casey in that scenario.

      • John says:

        Ooooh good guess. Especially with the big CIA panel thing in the promos. You think the good guys have won and warm feelings all around then BOOM the CIA comes in and bunkers the civvies.

        That would actually be good, it would be a call back to how cold blooded Beckman and Graham were back in season 1.

      • atcdave says:

        With only a couple minor gripes, I’m OK with where things are now. So yeah, “changes everything” makes me a little nervous.

      • atcdave says:

        OK Merve and John, that’s a fun guess. A story arc of “getting the band back together” could be a lot of fun.

      • cas says:

        I’m going to go with something simple…” Chuck:”Sarah Blah blah blah…Will you marry me?”
        Sarah: “N…….” Boom! End credits

      • BeCoolBoy says:

        Well, remember, the last two minute bit was probably what was excised from Other Guy when they learned of the back 6 pick-up. So logic (hah!) would indicate that it is an out-of-the-blue twist that won’t have much to do with what happens in the 82 minutes of the show.

        Again, logic would dictate with Casey’s daughter showing up that the two significant deaths will be Papa B and Casey (whether real or faked in either or both cases). Story-telling balance and like that. But the whole show “ends” with Chuck, Sarah, et. al. winning the day.

        Then comes the new cliffhanger delayed from e13’s end. My guess? They win the battle and THINK Shaw is dead (for the second time). But he comes back in the last two minutes and does something nefarious to Chuck and/or Sarah. That would be consistent with the story as told in e13…

        But I have an awful feeling Poochie will be around for Season 4 now…

      • Crumby says:

        Would NBC fall for Poochie in Season 4? They must know nobody wants to see it.

      • atcdave says:

        Yeah Crumby, that’s the biggest reason not to think it could be Shaw again; I doubt NBC could be sold on another season of him.

    • weaselone says:

      Does that mean the last two minutes are the only ones worth watching because all the rest is rendered immaterial? I do have to admit I’m intrigued and more than a little fearful about the game changer?

      A real game changer would be a complete 180 where Team B wins the battle, but appears to have lost the war. Shaw and his cell are eliminated and the Ring Intersect is destroyed, but control of the US intelligence apparatus is seized by the Ring, leaving Team B the outlaws.

      They might end up doing something to mess with the team dynamic. Maybe Intersect Sarah who honestly doesn’t need one, or kill off some key players. My hunch is that they’ll remove the trappings of a normal life. Like the Buymore, other aspects of Chuck and Sarah’s normal life will burn.

    • JC says:

      The whole group is being briefed about what happens after the battle. Mourning if someone died, etc.

      A cloaked figure walks into the room.

      Chuck and Ellie look up.


      Fade to black

  36. Mclovin says:

    Afternoon uncle joe! This episode sounds great. Havn’t watched it yet. Will only get a chance next week. Here’s another random question for the day that u answer in your own special way which is actually quite cool. How come there seems to be quite a number of more guys on this blog than girls? Although from the few girls pictures here they seem to be smoking beautifully gorgeous! Lol. What a description. Peace.

  37. Warp says:

    And it gets worse and worse…
    I’m annoyed. This seems to be one of the weakest episodes to me. Lies, lies, lies, lack of humour, senseless incomplete side plots and whole unnecessary scenes. The return of Shaw and the way they treated the past of Sham. I ask myself how the actors feel about playing such a crap.

    I generally agree with HenryH and Gabbo. TPTB destroy the show with every further move they make. It really seems that they don’t have any more ideas – The writing was bad this season and I don’t think that it was just the budget cut that led to a decline in overall quality, it in fact looks like they just don’t have a clue for how to work the whole thing out (story arcs and such). Normally TV shows start to crumble after 6 or 7 seasons, Fedak et al accomplished that in three.
    Perhaps it would be better to kill most of the main characters and start a spin-of like:
    Captain awesome versus the absolute arrhythmia.
    Sounds good and medical shows run better anyway…
    Maybe it’s just time for me to move on. Unfortunately there’s no other show featuring ultra-gorgeous and talented YS or being as funny or original as the first two seasons of Chuck.

    I guess the final leaves us with a cliffhanger as big as the Himalayas, leading to many peptic ulcers and admissions to psychiatry wards…

    Please excuse my ranting, maybe I just had a bad day at work… (at least nobody died)

    And btw: My guess is that Casey dies (after recent positive developments and the reappearance of his daughter in the sneaker). After all, Adam Baldwin as the senior player in the actor’s team seems (?) to be the one who is the least committed/dependent to/on the whole project.

    • Sole says:

      I hope your day gets better, because it wasn’t that bad. I don’t think it was the best ep, but it was definitely good for me.
      Maybe if you try againg tomorrow? Best of luck..

    • cas says:

      After viewing it for the second time, I realized that its just going to be one of those episodes that I can afford to skip when I get the DVD. I’m sure that had TPTB known that they were going to get 19 ep for this season that thing would have ended up differently. I guess they knew that they messed up from 301-311 and all the call backs from 314 and so on are their way of either fixing it or trying to justify their actions. I really do beleive that they mean well but are just going about it the wrong way.

  38. lucian says:

    On a slightly different topic, I am glad the season developed the way it did – the first 13 then the additional 6. It seems pretty evident that the first 13 were written backwards from American Hero and The Other Guy. If NBC had given them 19 episodes up front, we would have probably had 6 more episodes of Sham.

    • atcdave says:

      I agree Lucian. And imagine the mess if they’d gotten the back six while they thought they had time to lengthen out the primary arc. I shudder at the thought!

  39. andyt says:

    Hi folks, I haven’t commented in a few weeks been busy. I loved this episode. It was significantly better than the last two. I found the reveal of Shaw as the supervillian astoundingly awesome. (Smilin’ Stan style alliteration) This show needed its Harry Osborn to Peter Parker. I laughed nearly to tears in Casey’s interrogation of Sarah. It was a great call back to the Pilot when Chuck went through his whole history with Jill to every girl and drove them away. Now the shoe was on the other foot and it was hilarious to see Chuck’s reactions. Morgan’s abject fear of Shaw, especially that he is like Michael Myers or Jason(he never dies) was also hysterically funny. This brought alot to the table and set up the big finale next week. I can’t wait

    • joe says:

      Heh! I’ve seen it twice in 20 hours now, and your descriptions still make me laugh. You’re right, Andy. Lot of the little things were done right.

  40. weaselone says:

    So having a bit more perspective and time to think things over, I think a good portion of us are being hypercritical in regards to this episode. So shame on all of you :). Yes, I know that I’m among the worst offenders. Pot meet kettle. The truth is that the show runners have always tended to run over canon and characters in the name of humor and drama. Most of the times we don’t really mind. Sometimes we apparently do and I think it honestly has more to do with many of us having a stick in our craw than the show itself.

    In the last episode a lot of us are fixated on the whole interrogation scene and the liberties it takes with the Shaw and Sarah relationship. Now, I’ll be the first to agree that they may have taken it a bit far, but the rewrite of history is no more egregious than the Awesome’s day discussion with Morgan. We know from past episodes that Awesome occasionally drops the ball in his relationship and unless Ellie is 100% spoiled princess the picture Awesome paints can’t reflect what we know. Plus, Awesome’s been largely less than Awesome lately. Are we meant to think that he’s been doing all this stuff when he could barely get up the will to exercise a few episodes ago? Plus there’s the whole fruit smoothie thing. We’ve seen Awesome and Ellie in breakfast scenes several times. Not once did a strawberry or equally benign smoothie make an appearance. It’s been all colon cleanser with Ellie generally drinking coffee. We’re OK with that little rewrite because it amuses us, but pounce on the Chuck and Sarah rewrites. Again, it seems to say more about us fans than the writers. I will say in closing that I wish they took fewer of these types of liberties and kept character backgrounds tighter, but we still need to lighten up a bit.

    • Ernie Davis says:


    • Merve says:

      I agree wholeheartedly. I just happened to find the Awesome/Morgan scene funnier than the Chuck/Sarah/Casey one. (Showing the passing of time with the six beers was just the icing on the cake for me.)

    • jason says:

      weasel / ernie – we didn’t write the reference to the shaw sarah love story in 3.17 – fans didn’t like it when suffering thru it originally – the creative team decided to throw it back in fans faces in 3.17 – what would have been a pretty epic episode without it – why is that overreacting, fans did not bring it up – the story teller did?

      by the way, many of the reviewers did not even mention the sham issue, I am almost positive they are really sick of shaw right now, maybe worse than some fans. I would love to get an objective read from someone who knows, TPTB – stupid or arrogant when it comes to the never ending shaw storyline – or something else?

      I can’t wait till season 3 ends, 18 & 19 are going to be awesome, then will end absolutely depressingly, all opinion at this point of course.

    • BeCoolBoy says:

      Actually, weaselone, didn’t Awesome say the smoothie was for lunch? Just sayin…

      • Ernie Davis says:

        Actually he used the phrase mid-day, which assuming a wake-up time of 6-8 AM and a lunch time of 12-1PM specifically precludes a lunchtime smoothie assuming an 8 hour night of sleep as a lunchtime smoothie would be at best only 7 hours into a 16 hour day. Such ridiculous lapses in continuity cannot be tolerated. 🙂

      • BeCoolBoy says:

        Yes, that and no waffles, either. Outrageous canon omission… 🙂

      • joe says:

        You have no idea how much grief Awesome has caused me with his “standard day”.

        Belgian Waffles? Okay. I can live with that. Mid-day smoothie and Lavender bath? Well…. I’ll try. Daily foot rub?

        Now you’ve gone too far, Sir!

    • ChuckNewbie8 says:

      Actually I didn’t. But I do find it curious there’s more focus on that rather than the unbelievable amount of lies Chuck threw out there all episode long. Double standard?

      • weaselone says:

        That was simply atrocious writing IMHO. I look at the interrogation scene as two things: comedy and an effort to show that Sarah isn’t being 100% honest either. Otherwise, Sarah really becomes a caricature this episode. She’s absolutely perfect this episode, saving Chuck, opening up emotionally and urging him not to lie. Sarah apparently no longer has flaws.

        There’s just really not much to say about the lying. It was excessive to the point that you have no choice but give the Chuck character a pass and cast your eyes to the people holding the strings.

      • ChuckNewbie8 says:

        now that we can agree on (I think). Hence my perception that these new writers are overrated at this point in their careers especially.

      • ChuckNewbie8 says:

        Now that we can I agree on (I think). Hence my perception that these new writers are overrated, especially at this early point in their careers.

      • jason says:

        every attempt from every angle from writing, show runners interviews, acting, directing, retcon humor, sham has failed, I really think they tried to use the ali adler poke fun at it all from 3.8 with the 3.17 scene – it actually worked, but only on those who sham didn’t bother in the first place, who remain incredulous that some of the fans don’t get the beauty of shaw being sarah’s lover in the epic season 3 shaw show

        as far as chuck’s lying, until proven wrong, I will maintain it is simply beating us over the head, as the lying will be the lesson at the end that chuck learns, at a very steep price, orion, awesome, ellie or morgan, one or two will die and I think the death will be linked to the lying – my guess is awesome, but I think he is a bafoon and does not contribute to the dramatic direction NBC wants the show to go.

        as for sarah’s perfection, in lots of ways she was more a comic book hero character in S1/S2 than any of the other characters, then in s3 she became a plot device as the hero’s girl friend involved in a LI to torture the fanbase, now she is somewhat both, the hero’s unwaivering girl friday when no fights are going on and the cartoon super-heroine during the missions …. I have no idea where next for her …. I don’t see the sarah lying about shaw issue as you do weasal – a 28 year old goddess thinking of moving in with a boyfriend of 2-3 months who is a ‘stallion’ – only the most naive ex boyfriend in the world would need that explained.

    • herder says:

      Personally I liked the episode, it was exciting, funny, interesting and fun, this is what I look for in an episode. I can even forgive the return of Shaw, so long as they don’t do a who’s the baby daddy storyline.

      They have amped up the Ring as a clever and resourseful threat and added the idea of the intersect being a danger to Chuck’s well being. To those who question how the Ring developed and intersect so quickly after Other Guy, if the elevator scene with the director was a sting, why would they bait it with their real cypher rather than a dud cypher. If you are going to give up technology why not give up something that misinforms the other side of where you are development wise. We thought that they were behind because the General said they were and she said that because of the cypher they got from the director which was misinformation.

      Don’t want to get too much into the Shaw/Sarah stuff, partly because I don’t like it and partly because I think that like so much in this episode it will play out in next week’s finale. Until then I don’t want to say much.

      • Ernie Davis says:

        I think I’ll just add one thing in closing (at least my part of this discussion). Everyone is hanging the idea of the relationship as Sarah described it in the interrogation violating “cannon” on one throw away line from Sarah in Final test about DC being all business, which we know was her lying to spare Chuck’s feelings, and one from Shaw in American Hero. Essentially he says we should have done this sooner when they’re on their date and everyone interprets that as meaning it’s their first date, thus the date in DC violates cannon. That’s awfully thin to get so worked up about. We should have done this sooner could mean any number of things. It could be that it is their second date and it took a long time from their first, it could mean it’s their first date since Sarah decided to move to DC, or their first date since Sarah had an emotional crisis over Chuck’s red test, or their first date after a day spent in Shaw’s loft, or their first date after Sarah made a commitment to Shaw. It is only when we assume that we perfectly understand the meaning of throw away lines that we get so hypercritical and worked up. Shaw also toasts “To a new life and a fresh start. No Burbank, no baggage.” But they’re still in Burbank, so it seems to me they’re plausibly celebrating something other than a first date. The fact that we didn’t see the possible extent of the relationship, given that a lot of this is from Chuck’s perspective from about Beard on is also easily explained by Sarah and Shaw not wanting to rub it in Chuck’s face. I also think we may find out that the day spent in Shaw’s loft may not be what we are supposed to believe at this point. In the front 13 these types of things took several episodes to play out, and it got frustrating. Now most are resolved in one or two. My guess is we have at least one or two more Sham surprises due in the finale.

    • atcdave says:

      Some really excellent points weaselone. I would be the first to admit I’ve been more critical this season simply by virtue of not liking it so much. Although I’ve been pretty happy since American Hero, there is still a bit of hangover. we saw Chuck behave in some less than appealing ways this year, the lying reminds us of the worst of it. And we saw Sarah do what most of us never wanted to see, so Sham is a sore spot too.

      I think most of us have said all along this was mostly a very good episode. Just a couple of sticking points, lying and Sham.

    • JC says:

      Yeah I have to admit I’m a canon and continuity nazi. I let it annoy me more than it should. The interrogation scene bothered me in that regard but it was so funny I didn’t mind.

  41. BeCoolBoy says:

    Sorry, I meant Papa Bartowski didn’t make waffles. Obviously, Awesome does… 🙂

  42. Jen says:

    How does the ring know of the effects of the intersect on the brain? The man that attacks Papa B tells him “my employer knows u have an intersect. Where is the thing that is keeping u alive?”, then asks for The Governor. So they know of the adverse effects of the intersect n somehow it’s been leaked to them about the fix. I have no idea how.

    I just realized Casey did get to bug Ellie n Awesome’s appartment.

    Sorry, delayed commenting. I’m just rewatching the ep.

    • joe says:

      I’m not sure I know either, Jen. And I’ve watched twice. Both viewings generated that same question.

      It’s either yet another plot-hole, or the Ring is very, very good. 😉

      • Freddy J says:

        Ya know, yes, they’re plot holes…but I look at it like each episode is an actual window into that world. After that window has closed, the world keeps right on spinning. I know, maybe it’s just me wanting to live in my little euphoria but HECK, I don’t care!! Though mid-season 3 even pushed MY limits of plausibility.

    • Crumby says:

      We basically don’t know anything about the Ring, so I wouldn’t call it plot holes.

      From what we’ve seen, I think that they know that the Intersect is unhealthy and hard to handle. We’ve seen in Suburbs that they’ve been tested their version of the Intersect, so they probably did it with this one too.
      From the test, they’ve seen how people responded.
      Which bring them to the second part of their reasoning, Orion has an Intersect and isn’t responding the same way. What makes him different?
      So they know there is something.

      How they know it is the Governor isn’t clear, but they probably have a huge amount of people working on it. They had Perseus. They had Roark. They even had Orion at some point. They probably have a lot of information we’re not aware of.

      The same goes with Beckman. She obviously knows a lot more than what we’re seeing.

  43. Big Kev says:

    Well, I’m a couple of days late to this viewing, in the Chuck-free zone that is Australia, so apologies if I’m covering old ground.

    I’m really conflicted about this episode. There is so much to love. Papa B’s return, the wonderful Morgan/Sarah scene, the spy wills, the set up with Ellie in the clutches of the Ring, Casey getting sconed with a frying pan, the shifting webs of deceptions and lies that Joe highlights and how they will play out…..all great, great stuff.
    But what I don’t like about this epsiode, I REALLY don’t like – and – surprise! – it’s Shaw.
    I’m with Father Rick on this one – dangerously close to shark-jumping territory.
    There are so many problems with him still being alive.
    Firstly, they want to up the dramatic stakes and emphasise the real danger of the Ring in this back six – and good on them for that. But that only works if you believe that there actually are things at stake. It doesn’t work if you have at the back of your mind that whatever you see on the screen can be re-written just because the writers feel like doing it. Shaw gets four slugs in the chest and falls into the river? No worries. We can bring him back. Emmitt gets one in the eye? Potentially easily fixed. The problem is that if you keep pulling that rabbit out of the hat, then your denouments have zero dramatic impact.
    For better or worse, TPTB have tied Season 3 up with Chuck’s first kill – how will it happen? Will it change him? And now, to be honest, I feel like all of that was for nothing. The whole dramatic conclusion of E13 and the purpose behind it has been completely devalued. Maybe I won’t feel like that in a week once I’ve seen the finale – but on first viewing, that’s how I see it.
    And it also devalues the idea of the Dark Intersect (which is a great idea – I hope BillatWork has received his cut) – I can’t take it seriously because I can’t take the idea that Shaw is still alive seriously. And no matter how good a psycho villain he turns out to be, I won’t be able to respect what the writers are trying to tell me.
    It’s completely unnecessary too, because there is more than enough there with what they’ve set up for a fantastic climax without going into ridiculousness. Justin has Ellie, Chuck is potentially mentally unstable, Papa B is a marked man….there’s no need to do this. If you want a recurring nemesis, or a Dark Intersect, do it in Season 4 and construct a believable, season long arc, and a sustainable character. All this has done for me is to remove any dramatic punch from whatever happens next week. It’s a bit like when I watched Terminator 2 – once Arnie had been incinerated/blown up/vaporised and came back for the 3rd time, I just laughed. Maybe that was the point.
    I’m biased against Shaw. I think the original character was the most poorly written and executed of any in the series. He’s the albatross around the whole season, and pretty much irredeemable in my eyes – so it’s even more galling to think that they’ve done this to resurrect a character who was a disaster to begin with.

    See what I mean about conflicted? Because 90% of the episode, I really loved.

    • Ernie Davis says:

      You are certainly on to something here Kev. I think a lot of us felt that way about the PLIs this year. You had an episode like Colonel, where some line was apparently crossed and even TPTB called it a game changer, but the rug was quickly pulled out from under us the very next episode so they could pull the PLI routine once more, with extra angst. A lot of us, me included, felt they were going to that well one too many times even if it was just like previous seasons, two or three episodes where nothing serious ever really developed, but we were willing to grit our teeth and tolerate it given TPTB were almost immediately leaking this season would end with them together. Well, by attempting to do it once more, but BIGGER WITH MORE ANGST AND MORE DRAMA, and dragging it out so long it lost the dramatic impact and just became tedious.

      Long way of saying I understand where you’re coming from, but I didn’t really expect anything else at this point.

    • Casey'sgirl says:

      I get where you’re coming from Kev, but don’t you think fans are a little overreacting? I know everyone hates Shaw, believe me I hate him too, but I tend to see him more believable as a bad guy. He’s like the first villain we’ve had who knows everything about the team well every other villain either was after the intersect or the gang got in the way of their plans. Shaw would use what he knows about our heroes against them as his mind is twisted by revenge and he’d do everything he could to make them and their families suffer. I’m really looking forward to seeing what happens next.

    • JC says:

      The baggage Shaw’s character carried was my biggest concern in his return. I mentioned it right after Tooth. The first thirteen was basically his story. He was written so poorly that his loyalty switch had zero impact IMO. Nobody cared about him or his wife. Maybe if he had been somewhat likable him being a villain would matter but he wasn’t.

    • atcdave says:

      Agree almost entirely Big Kev, but I guess I am resigned to seeing Shaw die one more time. It is interesting Chuck no longer has a single real kill. At least Sarah knows how far he is willing to go for her. I strongly suspect Sarah will deliver the coup de gras this time.

  44. Pingback: Episode of the Week: Chuck vs The Living Dead (3.17) | Chuck This

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