First Impressions Pt. Un!: Subway and The Ring Pt 2.

Was It Epic? Was It Awesome? Was It Everything You Ever Wanted???

And most importantly, did it leave you wanting more? This is the place to get it down for all time. This is for posterity!

We have questions. Is the Buy More No More? Have we seen the end of Stephen? Or is Stephen still a wizard with more lives than Vincent, Bryce and Shaw combined? Is Alec part of Casey’s future, or part of his past? And where IS mama B. anyway?

Important things must become clear! Is Beckman following in Graham’s footsteps? Is Jeffster going to make it big in Japan, and will “Rain” manage them properly?

This is the place to celebrate the last of Daniel Shaw, or curse his continuing influence on our otherwise happy crew. This is the place to say that you wanted to SQUEEE! all night long, or say “Hey, it could have been better if they did it my way!”

We’ll try to leave the speculation about Season 4 for the very next post!

– joe


About joe

In my life I've been a professor, martial artist, rock 'n roller, rocket scientist, lover, poet and brain surgeon. I'm lying about the brain surgery.
This entry was posted in ChuckMeMondays, Observations, Season 3. Bookmark the permalink.

222 Responses to First Impressions Pt. Un!: Subway and The Ring Pt 2.

  1. sniderman says:

    8:38 pm

    “You are our only hope.”


  2. Emily says:

    Aww man…
    I’m at home sick, waiting for it to become available online so I can watch it! It’s killing me, knowing that you east coasters have already seen almost an hour! Please tell me its…epic…someone?

    • sniderman says:

      One hour nearly down. And another hour to go. And thus far – yes – it’s epic.


      • Emily says:

        If I wasn’t so feeble and weak, I’d fly over to you and bust your TV… >:D

      • joe says:

        Awwwww – Get well, Emily. This was too much fun to enjoy completely when you’re feeble and weak! You may have to watch it several times as part of your recovery process!

      • Emily says:

        Oh don’t worry – I will definitely be rewatching. It was incredible!

  3. herder says:

    Holy Crap!!!!

  4. John says:

    Impression so far: Holy freaking crap

  5. Tamara Burks says:

    Maybe they can use whatever they used on Bryce and Shaw to bring back Papa B and he and Beckman can be a couple. It would certainly make for an interesting dynamic given that he was the bane of her existence.

    • joe says:

      That’s what I’m thinking. There was “cell regeneration technology” in that lab where Stephen was shot after all.

      • Chuckaddict says:

        I’m thinking the point of showing us that his watch broke after being shot is that his Governor is broken and there’s now no way for him to survive.

      • joe says:

        Excellent point, CA. Forgot that. Yeah, he’s probably a gonner. Too bad.

      • Chuckaddict says:

        Scott Bakula was an incredible addition to the show. The actress to portray Momma B. has some pretty big shoes to fill.

  6. sniderman says:


    I’m loving this.

  7. sniderman says:


    Wow. They brought the A Game. They wrapped the season up fantastically. All the secrets are out. And new ones have surfaced in the last 2 minutes. Epic, game-changing, whatever you want to call it.

    Season 4 cannot start soon enough.

  8. Patty says:

    OMG Chuck is the Phantom!!

  9. BDaddyDL says:


  10. sd says:

    Okay….Chuck just can’t help himself…secrets…secrets…secrets. Why didn’t he go to his old house with Sarah? Is it just me?

    Overall…great season finale….and certainly leads up to a season four that’s all about family as Fedak mentioned. The problem, Chuck once again made a promise–to his sister–he can’t keep.

    I did like the fact he didn’t kill Shaw and it was acknowledged by Sarah…anyone think Shaw blew up? I don’t. I think he will be back in S4.

    On a personal note…I think the pacing was much better than in some episodes this season…you got a lot of information…but there was a breath for character…ie: The conversation between Awesome and Ellie about Chuck…it wasn’t one sentence and out…there was an actual give and take between characters. I know Chuck trys to cram a lot in an hour…but sometimes less is more…I think.

    Hopefully, if there is more than a 13 ep pickup…the writing team will know and adjust prior to actually writing the season.

    Bring on #4!!!!

    • joe says:

      I was thinking – Okay. There will be no more lies. That’s a good thing. But are we going to say “Oh nosss! Chuck’s made another promise he can’t keep!” in six months?


    • atcdave says:

      I didn’t like the promise that can’t be kept, but he will try and Sarah is OK with it. Which leads to my only real complaint with this episode; not enough Chuck and Sarah time! But the impact of the episode was Chuck and Ellie, and that worked very well.

    • JayHawk Fan says:

      Well Chuck DID keep his promise to Ellie. Remember, at dinner he told her that Beckman accepted his resignation, so to speak.

      By the way, I’ve been around this blog now for sometime. I usually post on the NBC boards.

      • joe says:

        Hi, JayHawk. Nice to see you here.

        And good catch with the resignation. I found myself saying “That won’t last.” immediately, and then forgot about it in the excitement of the new “batcave” and Mama B.

        But you’re right. He *did* resign.

    • atcdave says:

      Hey Jayhawk Fan, great to have you posting here. He did keep his promise to his sister so far. My two complaints would be that we know it won’t last (he can’t keep the promise through no fault of his own) and he made the promise without consulting Sarah first. We currently don’t know her status, did she quit too? Fortunately for Chuck, Sarah seems very much to be a “follower” type.

      • JC says:

        Sarah seemed happy Chuck quit at least to me. Hopefully he comes clean to her about the Orion cave early next season.

    • John says:

      He did resign, just like he promised Ellie.

      I am sure he will tell Ellie he is now looking for their mother…I mean surely…

    • weaselone says:

      I wouldn’t jump to conclusions regarding Chuck keeping the secret quite yet. He was really just honoring the wishes of his dead father who wanted it kept secret. No inkling one way or the other that he keeps it from Sarah or Ellie.

      Plus, Papa B was paranoid. Wouldn’t want to bring in a second person who could end up reduced to a sizzling pile of goo by a security system primed to take out anyone not Chuck. For all we know, Sarah was outside waiting in the Porsche.

  11. Ernie Davis says:


  12. Rick Holy says:

    Excellent way to end the season. And honestly, I LOVED the “product placement” for the new Subway breakfast sandwich. It looked like Big Mike was leaving donuts behind. Now THAT’S a “game-changer!”

    Truthfully, an excellent final two episodes of S3. Thank God that we don’t have to wait until January for S4 to start! Bring on September (or October)!!

  13. andyt says:

    WOW, WOW, WOW. Chuck truly is a superhero now. He has the secret base, the superpower, and the mission.(tragic loss of a parent) Also, he needs to call Nick Fury and Steve Rogers before he takes on Hydra and Baron Zemo. And Mom at the very end, Season 4 will be about family as they assembled the family of spies at the end, including Alex who is a criminology major(she was following in Dad’s footsteps without knowing it). Truly a fantastic end to S3 and a great set up for S4. Also, great way to introduce mom without having to actually cast the actress yet, brillant.

  14. Merve says:

    I’ll be more detailed tomorrow, but for now:
    Wow. Just wow.

  15. lucian says:

    Wow. Left me feeling like I used to feel after a Chuck episode – but better.

  16. sniderman says:

    I can’t believe I’m gonna say this – Shaw was pretty good as a villain. Would have liked to see him use the Intersect in some manner. But he was fairly well menacing. Had some good lines. But to be brought down by admitting he was a Ring operative while being filmed on a hidden camera? Rookie mistake. But par for the course for the “perfect spy.”

    • atcdave says:

      And very funny because he had just mocked Chuck about the villains speech.

    • HenryH says:

      And it’s a nice callback to Angel of Death when the guy torturing Casey specifically said he WOULDN’T detail the Ring’s plan in the typical villain’s way…

    • Tamara Burks says:

      Shaw making a rookie mistake!? Surely , you jest! That would be like him examining a mask he knew had something in it out of the containment unit and gassing both himself and Sarah!

  17. joe says:

    Capsule Instant Impression – fantastic!!! OMG that was great.

    I’d say it had about 95% of all the thrills that I could gin up in my fevered imagination. THEN it added about 200% of the fun, laughs and guffaws! The “reboot” was a stunner. I loved it when Sarah belted Shaw, twice (we don’t have to worry about him THAT way any more). Jeffster in the background during the fight – perfect.

    Casey with Alec? Perfect. Alec with Morgan? Can’t wait! A frazzled, incarcerated Beckman looking to Chuck for help? Amazing. A frazzled Beckman begging MORGAN! for help? Priceless! Princess Leia never looked so good! Sarah was (and has been) perfect! She’s sticking with Chuck no matter how many times he changes his mind.

    And we see what’s coming for S4.

    The only downer, Shaw lives. I’m going to forever ignore the plot holes about the CIA conference, and I wish there had been that Ellie-Sarah conversation, and I wish Chuck would stick with the plan (not to mention the vows he took with Sarah). But hey, that’s our boy.

  18. joe says:

    Forgot to mention – all that music was fantastic too! I need a bigger iPOD now!

  19. AngelTwo says:

    I had two complaints:

    1) Running Subway and Ring Part II back to back really really really really detracts from the brilliance of Subway. That was one crackling hour of good and solid TV. Ring Part II was just fine, but I would have loved a week to let Subway marinate in its own awesomeness.

    2) How come no one (I’m looking at YOU Casey!) was worried about Alex’s mom and Casey’s one-time fiance? I mean, the Ring could have captured her 447 times already…

    And two brilliant moments:

    1) Sarah slugging Shaw in Subway. It seemed like the writers put that one in there for us.

    2) Sarah slugging Shaw in Ring II. It seemed like the writers turned Shaw into Fitzroy. All is now right with the world.

  20. herder says:

    A few quick thoughts as I really want to watch it again but it is too late to do that and be ready for work tomorrow. Loved the first hour, really liked the second, but not as good as the first.

    Loved Ellie the hero, she usually gets the mother hen role but from time to time they let the steel in her character show.

    So many Star Wars references, over the past few episodes, this time there was the Princess Leia turn for Beckman and Morgan’s bit too. Sort of little easter eggs for the fans.

    A bit light for Sarah in these two episodes, would have prefered to see more of kick ass Sarah than we saw. Nice to see her loathing of Shaw when he ran his hand over her shoulder in the CIA meeting. Would also have liked to see some Sarah/Ellie talk about Chuck. Finally she does have to take Chuck to task about his tendancy not to tell her things, would have liked to see him take her with him to the Bartowski homestead.

    Loved Chuck ruining Shaw’s evil plan by getting him to talk in front of the camera that was broadcasting to the intelligence convention. Saving the day by quick wits was great the Mu-ha-ha was a bonus.

    Morgan is a hero, making the most of his limited skills by committing himself one hundred percent. Great throwback to Suburbs with the breaking the thumbs bit which turned out to be unnecessary. That and a bit of romance with Casey’s daughter, makes me think of the old joke about a father showing his daughter’s date a bullet and saying that he isn’t afraid to use it, only with Casey you know it wouldn’t be a joke.

    Loved seeing the Bartowski clan goes to war. Hope to see much more of it next year. Nice to see that even without the Chuck/Sarah relationship being the focus of the show that they can come up with a great two hours of tv.

    • Waverly says:

      Actually, breaking the thumbs was necessary.

      Originally he needed to get out so that he wouldn’t be blown up.

      Once out, for the story he needed to be “all thumbs” so that he could blow up the Buy More.

  21. OldDarth says:

    Chuck has his own lair/BatcCave now! Most awesome!

  22. atcdave says:

    Really fun episode(s). So many good details I barely know where to start. I loved Devon and Morgan saving the day with Casey’s car. I loved the way it all came out for Ellie, and that it wasn’t just a fast simple reveal, it took several scenes before she was mostly up to speed.
    Morgan was great, and he has a new friend! Mere words cannot explain how much I hope Alex is back. Morgan/Casey/Alex is the sort of relationship triangle that would be an absolute joy to watch. Very happy to see Sarah drop the baddie and rescue her man in the end. The Buy More exploding by accident was wicked funny, it will be interesting to see if it is back or not.

    A few minor complaints. Sarah should have jumped in the Jeep with Chuck and Dad; my wife even laughed and said “clumsy plot device” when they drove off leaving her behind. It seemed very out of character for her and Chuck at this point in the show (gosh, we’ve never said that before!). Chuck really needed Sarah with him when he went to the house in the end. This episode was so heavily about Chuck and Ellie (and Dad), it left Sarah out in the cold a few times that didn’t seem appropriate to me.

    • jason says:

      yet a 3rd one, chuck should have told ellie that he needs to discuss the spy thing with sarah b4 he quits, as he is her ‘partner’ both is a spy sense and in a real life sense – ask her if she would decide something without talking to devon first???? – overall – pretty consistent with the rest of season 3 – both good and bad – fedak can’t get enough of daniel shaw that is for sure – geez – the fact shaw used a 2×4 to fight chuck at the end was pretty funny too. I for one am very glad season 3 is over – read only one review, sepinwall’s interview of fedak – I liked it – seems like in many ways season 4 has hope for me

      • atcdave says:

        I do agree with your one other beef Jason. But I think we are positioned in a much better place for S4.

      • kg says:


        She did a great job protecting her little brother and raising him, but he’s a man now. He shouldn’t let her make all these emotional on-the-spot decisions for her.

        They’re family, yes, but that should be a decision between Chuck and Sarah.

        She doesn’t really know Chuck anymore, but that’s his fault for keeping her in the dark I guess.

        There’s never a simple solution in this realm.

    • jason says:

      other than the 3 CS weak moments – a couple of other thoughts:

      1 – morgan has a girl friend or at least a PLI – good for him – comic gold
      2 – no regular cast member died – I mean papa B was already dead & is a guest star, plus if they want, he’ll be back – devon made it & had a pretty good episode, so did ellie – good for them
      3 – we’ll get a 1000 posts about what a good villain shaw made, maybe, but it wasn’t routh’s acting, that still sucked & he was on screen the entire stupid while
      4 – shaw made several antagonistic remarks about sarah and her boyfriend, papa B called shaw sarah’s ex-lover, sarah looked broken up over ‘daniel’s’ return – the writers can’t let go what they seemingly couldn’t write at the time – sarah got in a pretty good early sucker punch, rivaling the one shaw got in on the prisoner in fake name
      5 – alex’s scenes really worked / fit – good for her
      6 – chuck / ellie seemed as screwed up a story as chuck / sarah had been 3.1 thru 3.13 – lets hope they fix it quicker
      7 – chuck did no learn any lesson about the constant lying & deception as he did it at the end again
      8 – regardless of any chuck being a moron (is casey ever wrong – good for him?), sarah appears ‘all in’ head over heels in love with chuck, the opposite does not always appear to be the case – I have no clue why
      9 – these guys don’t know how to write spy stuff – the ploy to catch the ring elders was right out of the ‘get smart’ playbook at best, nothing riveting at all – shaw taking over the CIA – did not get me out of my chair
      10 – season 4 looks promising, I loved what fedak had to say to sepinwall in the interview, sounds very promising

      finally, it seemed season 3 was very forced for fedak, like he was pouting over uniting chuck sarah, and was going to make everyone who forced him to do it as miserable as possible, based on the interview I think he begrudgingly has seen the light, I hope season 4 is done with joy & that the season gets off to a great start, season 3 did not and it hurt the ratings all season.

      • weaselone says:

        Exactly where did Chuck lie at the end?

      • jason says:

        weasal at the end – more deception or the hint of it as he was alone in his bedroom then at the new castle – no big deal – not mad at the character, just sick of how the writers beat us over the head with certain themes – as far as chuck leaving sarah in shaw’s clutches when he and papa B ran, I think it was a device, so chuck & ellie were the only ones present when papa B got popped, and so chuck and papa B could have one last mission. I think CS are more solid as a couple and a team than I could have ever hoped for at this point, the writers just do some odd things with them, in some ways, they had to spread chuck around pretty thin, which I would guess is why casey and morgan are ‘partners’ now, so chuck is not morgan’s only interface to the spy world, I hope ellie and sarah have some of that too in season 4 – by the way, ellie did ask sarah if her husband was ok with sarah when ellie and chuck went and talked, so there is a hint that ellie without alot of info, gets how powerful sarah is????

      • jason says:

        I think fans like me would like CS to see papa B die, or to experience the decision of quiting with ellie, or to see the message from Orion together, or to explore and discover the castle together – partners – but the route taken by the WRITERS is to have chuck experience most of these things alone – I am not sure why – I suppose the title of the show is chuck, not chuck – sarah, much as some fans (like me) see the show as much more a pair of co-stars than one star. As I said, no big deal, unless of course the story tellers choose to make it so.

      • weaselone says:

        Well, we’ll have to wait four months to see how Chuck actually handles it. I can’t imagine Chuck could keep little side trips to his secret underground lair and his little side missions a secret from Sarah so my guess is she’s in on it fairly early. Ellie, well that’s an interesting question. Chuck pretty much gets his new spy life dumped in his lap. Doesn’t look like he has much of a choice in the matter either.

      • atcdave says:

        I do agree weaselone, I don’t think Chuck will keep the new base secret from Sarah for long. There’s a few questions about how things will play out. Will Chuck (or maybe Chuck and Sarah) be independent contractors working for the government while Casey is their insider/liason. Or will the three of them do all their work undercover, secret from the government. Or will the team go back to work for the government entirely. Be interesting to see how it plays out, I do expect the details to be satisfactory and sorted out fairly quickly. In Fedak’s interview he pretty clearly described the story telling going forward as couples oriented, and he admitted the need to keep “main characters” together; so I think he gets the main fan complaints and isn’t likely to repeat the mistakes.

        I also get and concur on Jason’s comment. I really wish the show was more “Chuck and Sarah” than just “Chuck”. Like many fans, I adore the character of Sarah Walker (except for a few episodes in the middle of S3!) and ALWAYS want her to be more a part of things. But they seem determined to keep Chuck the solitary main character in the show. Sarah is clearly the second most important character of the show; always less important than Chuck, and usually more important, by far, than anyone else.

      • Chuck604 says:

        Also noticed that the way they caught the Elders was kind of similar to how James Bond was able to identify the members of Quantum, in Quantum of Solace. During the opera scene he revealed himself during their allegedly secret conversation and flushed them out in order to id them all. Anyone else notice that? Just wondering.

        Overall thought it was very good 2 hrs. I like the fact that the theme was focused on friendship and family, as well as the nearly unflappable relationship that has developed between Chuck and Sarah.

    • kg says:

      LOL. We said the same thing immediately. How in the hell is he protecting her by leaving her there on the sidewalk?

      Or, after all they’ve been through together (“everything in my life is right here”), why in the hell didn’t she just jump in with him?

      Very odd.

      • Waverly says:

        Ostensibly she had to stay behind to defend Chuck from the authorities. But I agree that that reason seems lame and that her decision to stay is out-of-character.

  23. herder says:

    One other thing that I will point out is that Chuck, unlike some other shows *ahem Bones* seems to be able to do season finales properly. Credit where credit is due to JS and CF, while this finale may not have been as awesome as last years’ it is light years ahead of what I have seen on other shows over the past week or two. This puts the Chuckverse in a good place for the summer and in a position to push the show to others during the hiatus.

  24. joe says:

    Chris Fedak does a post mortem on S3.

    Fedak: Chuck and Sarah are together, and we’re really excited to see them together and be a couple. That internal angst, I think we’ve played it out. It’s been well explored. I’m much more interested to see what happens to them as a couple, their relationship.

  25. Lola says:

    Guys, I just finish watching it for the first time. I have absolutely no words to describe it… I, I… well, i have to watch it again just to process it… but WOW. I don’t know if good, o super good, or what really… just… wow.
    Justice ligue? ok. Since in Argentina is a national holiday i have the time to rewatch the double eps again…
    Catch later.

    • Sole says:

      Hi Lola! I’m from Argentina too! Just wanted to say Hi! It’s nice too see i’m not the only one down here.. Sadly, I couldn’t watch the ep till yesterday, and i’m traying to catch up on all the comments. See you later!

  26. John says:

    The Ring Part II was great as an intro to next season…but Subway was one of the best episodes of the series. Wow.

  27. lizjames says:

    Don’t want to be the grinch here, especially since I thought Subway was a fantastic hour of TV, but we’re going to find some things we REALLY don’t like in the weeks ahead. (Much like Ring’s problems became apparent only after the giddy high wore off.)

    Some things that struck me immediately:
    1) Sarah urging Chuck not to run? Really? After she TWICE initiated treason with runaway scenarios?
    2) Casey seems to have forgotten he’s left behind a fiance that the Ring targeted back in Tic Tac.
    3) Casey’s secret stash at the Buy More blows apart the Chekhov’s Gun moment in Final Exam. I admit I never thought it credible that Casey didn’t have guns and stuff stashed EVERYWHERE that the feds wouldn’t know about, but this is obviously another example of plot-driven Season 3’s problems.
    4) Chuck lets Ellie bully him into quitting? What happened to giving up Sarah because he had a gift that could help people? Sarah he can give up, but Ellie he can’t challenge?
    5) Why is the governor that big a deal if Chuck can, uh, reboot?
    6) If Orion knew Chuck was “special” even as a child, why all the angst about the Omaha problem and the Intersects? Since when does Dad light the fire under Icarus’ wings?
    7) Mama Bartowski is in the business. Really? They had to go THERE?
    8) Papa Bartowski has been freelance spying? In other words, he’s got time to be Orion AND time to be a freelance fixer, but he needed to leave his young kids alone in the world? (Of course, we know that Papa disappeared to help Mama because we already saw Chuck leave Sarah to “help” her. But still…)

    I’ll TOTALLY skip over the fact that no one on Team B had the stones to get Jeff and Lester off the hook. ‘Cause, you know, after that music video, well, they deserve some punishment. 🙂
    Discuss away, folks…

    • gabbo says:

      I have to say, liz, as obvious/inevitable as the Mama B thing is, I am a bit disappointed they went there.

      And you know what it REALLY means, right? Everyone in the Bartowski clan, including Peaches I, is in the spy business. He disappeared because he is secretly in charge of all of the animals in the spy business. Or did I just accidently stumble upon the Season 5 arc: The Search for Peaches, who will have taken hostage by Shaw’s manaical rotweiler…

    • cas says:

      Liz, it seems to me that most of what you disliked about the finale came from the episode that JS/CS wrote..go figure. Which makes excited and also afraid of whats to come in season 4.

    • atcdave says:

      I do agree with a couple of those beefs Liz. I could see Sarah trying to convince Chuck not to run this time, but I really can’t see how she doesn’t jump in the car when they start to go.

      And Chuck getting talked into quitting by Ellie kind of baffles me. I can’t even conceive of having that talk with my sister without involving my wife, it just doesn’t compute (and Sarah certainly reads as more than just a girlfriend).

    • ChuckNewbie8 says:

      I’m not gonna lie, I’m probably not of the right mind to answer so if this doesn’t make sense apologies lol…

      I don’t know if you noticed but if you freeze frame right when MamaB enters the picture her computer had DNA helixes on it. I and some people have now assumed that she’s THE european clinic aka regenerator. Whatever regeneration technology that the Ring utilizes came from her just as the intersect came from PapaB. What we have here are two brilliant, and very, very intense possibilities.

      But now for the itemized 😉

      1. Sarah initiated running when there was no other way she could conceive of them being together. For starters she was scared that they would take him away and for another she was scared that they would change him. Those two are in my opinion valid fears. This is a little different. For starters, Beckman is on their side. She knows this because Beckman is arguing for them in the committee hearing. She also knows that when you go rogue your life is constant danger. Going rogue is what Bryce did, “if you ever accuse me of being rogue again, I will walk away mission over Chuck. And believe me you definitely don’t want that to happen,” so she has just as much to fear about him leaving in this situation where she can’t protect him. In a lot of ways it always comes down to being with Chuck and less to do with everything else. If she’s not with him, with him where she can at the very least participate in his protection, her world is in disarray.

      2. Not sure what specifically you’re referencing in this instance. The fact that he kept coming back to the pie shack or the fact that he told Alex to run to her mother? If the latter, I saw it as a last resort. He doesn’t know of any other way to protect her than to get her away from him. The Ring won’t go after his loved ones if they already have him and have him under their command. And really at this point the Ring has proven more cunning and evil than to need one man.

      3. No comment lol. I don’t think I ever thought about it.

      4. Well there are a lot of things wrong with this. For starters he knows now that whatever he does Sarah will be with him. He may have asked, “will you be ok being in love with a regular guy” but he knew the answer was always going to be yes. That wasn’t the case before and certainly not in Prague. Ellie asking him to quit just happened after his father died. That’s something that’s really intense and in my mind a bigger determinant of him quitting than Ellie asking him to. Remember Living Dead’s “or my family…who never wanted me to be a part of this.” He all but got his father killed. I see quitting as a salut to his dad. Which is why the last clip was so powerful and poignant. His dad didn’t want him to quit the spy life…he wanted him to be safe but it’s no longer safe and he has to continue the legacy.

      5. I thought about this. Hard. And pretty much what I’ve come down to is that the intersect without the governor won’t kill him, but it will still endanger him. The reason why have a governor at all is to alleviate even that aspect of it. But the entire “special” idea was full of win in my opinion. We have all bemoaned the fact that any tom, dick and harry can come off the streets and be the intersect and now we know that’s not really the case. They can be, but they can’t handle it like Chuck can.

      6. Danger

      7. Agreed. But at the same time, think of the possibilities! Besides we don’t know if she’s good or bad…however my post up there is a good read.

      8. Full of win. I. LOVED. THAT. I can see it. I can see that. The reason he left his kids was because he knew that people would go after them. Not just for being Orion but for being the guy that put them all away. That is so freakin awesome! Also this ties into the whole, “this is a bad business, I don’t want my family in any part of it.” This kind of makes a little more sense to me what with Bryce’s “you needed to know your father was a hero.”

    • andyt says:

      Just a few quick thoughts.
      1. Casey does tell Alex to get her mother and run, so he is looking after his former fiance.
      2. Orion was always was a freelance spy. It wasn’t an add on he was a superhero. It wasn’t like a day job and moonlighting as a spy. As someone pointed out above, it is the Phantom scenario.
      3. I did feel that Chuck quitting for Ellie was a stretch at first, but it is coming right on the heels of Dad’s death, and Chuck is in an extremely vulnerable place. I would hope that Chuck comes clean with Ellie early next season.
      4. It is not a stretch that Mom is in the business. I believe that they have set this up, since the reveal that Stephen was Orion. As I said above, it is the family of spies. I really look forward to how this develops.
      Overall a fantastic finale and one of the best that I have seen in a long time.

    • weaselone says:

      CN8 parallels my thoughts on this, although I’ll add few things.

      3)I think the whole Chekhov’s gun thing was overplayed. Even at the time I suggested that Casey probably had his own separate stash of firearms and that Chuck’s could just be considered a sentimental gift and that Casey utilized it because 1)It was an official government firearm that would lend credibility to Chuck making the kill should anyone check and 2) It was the one Casey happened to have at hand.

      Also, it’s not impossible that Casey’s Buy More stash was also looted only to be returned after his reinstatement. We don’t know, so there’s no reason to be critical.

      4)Chuck’s caving in to Ellie stemmed from the recent loss of his father. Chuck’s reluctant to give Ellie that promise up until she dredges up the point that they are the last two Bartowski’s. Honestly, I considered that a big foul on Ellie’s part. You can tell that Chuck has serious misgivings about not consulting Sarah when he reveals the promise to her. He recognizes this might not be what she wants and gives her an out here.

      5)Even though Chuck can handle the Intersect without the governor, it is obviously a tremendous burden on him. So yeah, he won’t die without it, but you’d be surprised how much you can live through.

      7)Still not certain how mom plays into the business. She seemed to be more under some sort of witness protection than a spy. Maybe a fellow brilliant scientist vs. actual spy? But you’re right, I almost wish they’d just made her a woman that ran.

    • Merve says:

      I’m willing to overlook the fact that nobody vouched for Jeff and Lester because them being on the run sounds like a fantastic opportunity for comedy. It gives Jeff a chance to use what his mother taught him…

    • kg says:

      Liz my biggest problem is clearly with number four. Yeah bully was the first word I thought of too, but then I used another word earlier.

      Absolutely, he leaves Sarah in Prague after re-intersecting apparently believing he could help people, then goes out all to get her back and makes vows with her in France, and now he doesn’t even talk to Sarah because his big sister whines a little?

      Yes, very weak.

      • weaselone says:

        Or it could have something to do with his father just having been killed and absolutely nothing to do with his unrelated decision in Prague. Just saying.

        In case you’re curious, the Chuck in 3.18 would have left with Sarah. He’s already said as much.

      • kg says:


        I know he was put in a tough spot. His dad was just murdered right in front of him. It seems like he hardly ever wins with the women in his life.

        Fortunately, Sarah has been extremely supportive and patient. And you’re right. He knows that.

        It seems as if Chuck can do almost anything short of having an affair with a brunette and Sarah will let it go these days.

    • JC says:

      1. Wasn’t Chuck being charged with crimes? Like breaking into the CIA base, assaulting Shaw, etc
      Shaw even mentions Chuck running makes him look guilty. Big difference in running to start a new life than when you’re accused of crimes against the government.

      6. Didn’t Orion say with him gone that Chuck and Ellie were in real danger. Makes sense he would want Chuck to know and be ready for it. He was probably in the same camp as Bryce that Chuck couldn’t handle the spy life but once he saw Chuck in action that changed.

  28. Lola says:

    Since re watching, im going to try and write a few things on the eps:
    – Sarah comfortable with papa B now that the secret’s out.
    – love awesome’s looks in the second scene of subway (as “i haven’t slept all night waiting for her”.
    – what i don’t understand, is why Casey doesn’t tell Chuck that Ellie found him hit him with the pan…

    ok.. im gonna stop, i realized i like everything!

    but, seriously, why didn’t Casey told Chuck about Ellei and the pan?

  29. JC says:

    Subway might be the best episode of Chuck ever, I didn’t think anything could top Alma Mater for me but wow.

    Shaw was great I’ll admit it. His Muwhahaha line redeemed him for the dessert one.

    That’s all I have right now.

    • Merve says:

      I love how Brandon Routh delivered that line. It was as if he was acknowledging how wooden he was.

      • jason says:

        and routh used a 2×4 in his last fight scene which is great self directed humor / sarcasm by the staff, I think the writers kept trying to redeem themselves by giving routh as much good material as they could and trying to legitimatize his role in earlier episodes thru retcon – he was ok as a villain maybe – but basically plays the villain role exactly how he played the mentor role, exactly how he played the lover role, exactly how he played the super spy role, good news for him, standing there emoting nothing works pretty well for an emotionless villain

      • lizjames says:

        Actually, I thought Routh was terrific as a villain. It shows he can act.

        And if you at what has now developed, you see the GOOD part for Shaw: The obsessed, cold superspy from Awesome, First Class, Beard, Final Exam, American Hero, Other Guys. His appearances in Subway and Ring II are perfect fits with the character in those episodes.

        Excise Mask and Fake Name from Shaw and he is just FINE as a character. So once again, a character and much of Season 3 floundered when they injected romance angst. I think it’s obvious now that Mask and Fake Name were the episodes Routh was shoehorned into. And neither he nor Strahovski knew how to play the sudden romance angle…

      • JC says:

        And how casual it was, like I’m evil deal with it.

      • jason says:

        jc- exactly – how he played superman – i have superpowers – deal with it – how he plays a lover – I got the girl – deal with it – how he plays the villain – I’m evil – deal with it – how he helped chuck in the early eps – I am helping chuck – deal with it – as the ring expert – I am the ring expert – deal with it – same expression the entire time – as I said, for a villain – it works reasonably well

      • Merve says:

        Liz, I have to agree with you. Brandon Routh isn’t a terrible actor. He plays cold superspy, tortured psycho, creepy dreamlike apparition, and evil genius quite well. I saw him in Zach and Miri Make a Porno before I ever saw him on Chuck and he was seriously the best part of that otherwise awful movie. I really didn’t like Shaw as a love interest, but I think that that’s more of a script issue; the jump in his character from “First Class” to “Mask” makes no sense.

        No matter how terrible Shaw was, I feel pretty safe in saying that he was nowhere near as bad as Gwendoline Yeo as Mei-Ling in “Sizzling Shrimp” or Jim Piddock as the museum curator in “Mask.” (Seriously, I almost put my fist through my TV screen every time that damn museum curator appeared on screen. I hate him and his stupid fake British accent!)

  30. pandachuck says:

    hes a complicated mann
    but no one understands but his womannnn,
    Chuck Bartowski

  31. Lola says:

    re watch it 🙂
    thank you TPTB for choosing may24 as season finale! Argentina’s 200 years celebration of our first goverment gave me the possibility to stay up till 3am to re watch the double eps!
    ok, moving on, now i can say it properly: WOW! this two episodes were amazing!

    I have to admit that, for me, Subway is better than Ring part II, but just beacuse i think all the major questions were answer in that one. Ellie finally found out, Chuck finally talked to his father, Casey finally told Alex, etc [finally], etc [finally].
    Not to mention the twist about shaw and the commanding officers, beckman, etc. AND the starwars reference!

    Someone said above that Chuck is “The Phantom” jaja, totally agreed! But I honestly wish in a different way though. And that he includes Sarah and Ellie on the loop. Ok, i’m gonna stop with S4 specs, since you created a different post for it.

    As for the rest of my impressions on S3 finale,well, I two saw some plot problems, but not as many as other people mentioned here.
    I think that some of what today we see as plot issues, will be ansewered in S4. -that is if TPTB don’t reboot the hole thing again- God forbide them!

    • Lola says:

      One more thing…
      Can’t wait till S4… what am i suposed to do till then? is there life outside TV? (jaja!) No Lost, no Chuck, not to mention here is winter, so i’ll have a lot of cold days to stay in and watch… nothing 😦

      • the shrink says:

        I love winter Lola. I will make you a deal. You can have my house in Michigan until December wait its Michigan Until october and i will take yours. You can summer 365 and I will take winter 365.

  32. Crumby says:

    I’m gonna wait my first re-watch to really comment but yes it was epic!

  33. weaselone says:

    Awesome episodes. Not certain which I preferred as they sort of run together in my mind. I’ll watch again before making any extended comments.

    I’d like to comment on the Chuck keeping another secret which has already cropped up. Honestly, we don’t know whether it’s a secret he’s going to keep and why he appears to have kept it at this point. It was the last seconds of the episode. There’s numerous explanations for what we see.

    1. It’s Chuck’s father’s message upon his death. Orion asked that it be a secret, so Chuck’s honoring the request until he finds out what he’s supposed to be keeping a secret.
    2. Orion’s paranoid. He’s granted Chuck access to his lair. Would you risk Sarah’s life on the first run through?
    3. Sarah could be waiting in the Porsche just as she was in 3.17.
    4. He could have already told Sarah and Ellie about the message and they agreed that Chuck should snoop things out initially.

    • odysszeuss says:

      Hi Weasel, da ist ja eine Vor- Verteidigungs Antwort ohne das das konkret problematisiert wurde. Finde ich genial. Du hast aber absolut Recht! Das Chuck diesen Wunsch seines Vaters respektiert und erstmal für sich erkundet was es mit der Botschaft seines Dad’s auf sich hat, wird wieder für viel Wirbel sorgen. Ich stelle mich zu Dir in die erste Verteidigungswelle und bin offiziell Deiner Meinung. Zum Beispiel sind in der geheimen Orion Base die Verteidigungslaser magisch jedem von Cucks Bewegungen ausgewichen. Was hätten diese Dinger mit Sarah gemacht, wenn sie dabei gewesen wäre??? UND er muß erstmal abchecken was es mit dieser Orion Botschaft auf sich hat. Vollkommen Deiner Meinung…

    • Chuckaddict says:

      Didn’t we see an overhead shot of a Nerd Herder on the highway before showing Chuck at Orion’s base? Thus, Chuck is probably alone. I’ve only watched once, so I might not be remembering correctly.

      • weaselone says:

        That may be true, I’d have to watch again, but we’re still drawing an awful lot of conclusion from a very short excerpt. Sarah not being with him there does not equal him keeping Sarah in the dark.

      • atcdave says:

        You are right weaselone. I think some of us feel fatigued by all of Chuck’s lying in S3, and are just worried he will continue the trend in S4. I also REALLY want to see Chuck and Sarah remain partners in the spy business, I don’t want to see them pursuing seperate advantures for any part of S4. Fedak’s comments give me confidence I have nothing to fear; but on its own, the episode leaves some major questions in that regard.

      • Merve says:

        I know that this won’t allay your fears, Dave, but my prediction is that they’ll mix it up: usually Chuck will be working alongside Sarah and Casey, but sometimes he’ll be off doing stuff on his own. I can imagine Chuck initially wanting to keep Sarah out of what he thinks is personal, but then realizing that she would want to help in any way she can. Chuck might even help Sarah delve into her past.

      • HenryH says:

        Yeah, I think it’s a mistake to suggest the writers have done anything but set the scene for the arc in Season 4. I don’t think it had anything to do with Chuck lying to Sarah. Besides, Chuck pretty much closed the door on an Orion-type approach to the job when he talked Papa B into turning around.

        For all we know, Season 4 of Chuck might be renamed The B Team and be about spies for hire. We have a boss (Chuck), a Face (Sarah), a B.A. (Casey) and a whack job (Morgan).

        Besides, look at all the speculation folks did when the stills were released for the finale–and none of the stills were actually IN the show. The much-dissected scene of Chuck and Sarah on the Crown Vic (are they apart/aloof/separated/distance) was irrelevant.

      • atcdave says:

        I do agree with most of your observations Henry. But this is just first impressions, and my first impression is just a little concern. I am certain they know at this point Chuck and Sarah need to work together, but the episode ended on a hollow note, in that regard only. It was a great episode and ending. As Merve mentioned, they hit it exactly right by wrapping the main story, and ending with twists, that weren’t completely out of the blue, to leave us curious for the future. Overall excellent episode and excellent season finale.

      • Chuckaddict says:

        Agreed. We’ll have to wait until Sept. It’s the nature of a cliffhanger. Count my vote for hoping the lying is over and they all start working as a team. All 6 (7 counting Alex) of them.

  34. odysszeuss says:

    awesome epic. what an ending…

  35. Hope says:

    Sweet mother of pearl!!! That was EPIC. I was on the edge of my seat the whole time. Loved that the entire gang got a chance to be the badass heroes they are.

    Poor Stephen, I cried at his death, it was so brutal and cruel, he died a hero. I never knew how much Scott made me love him as Papa B..

    Casey’s scenes with daughter Alex was well done. Both Adam and Scott both showed sacrificel, intense love for their TV kids. I was touched by their performances . Though did they have to go with Morgan getting Alex’s number? I was disappointed a little in that as I don’t approve of the match. Though I loved Casey being the protective dad, scaring the snot out any guy who takes an interest in his little girl.

    I wanted to punch Shaw every time he appeared on screen, that arragont smug look on his face just made me want to put his lights out. He was good as an evil psychopath who wanted Team B to suffer imprisonment or preferbly death. Mwu ha ha 😉
    Chuck was awesome I was really impressed by ZL’s acting. Loved his confrontations with Shaw. My favorite was when the gang exposes the Elders and Shaw for the villain that he is while as fugitives using their wits and street smarts to out fox their enemies, Papa B would’ve been proud. 🙂

    Loved the toast to honor Stephen as a hero and a great man. The hug between Casey and Alex aww, Morgan and Awesome saving the gang from certain death, the underground lair and Mama B, Team moments. It was all around amazing. Well done Writers on an awesome season.

  36. Ashley says:

    Simply put this is why i love this show. What a finale.

  37. BDaddyDL says:

    I know all of the mentions of Star wars were in the episode, but did anyone catch the Necessary Roughness homage in Subway? The words are not the same but even the jeep was the same color.

    • atcdave says:

      Funny I missed that. Necessary Roughness is one of my favorite football movies.

      I did notice though on second viewing, it isn’t a Jeep, its an old Ford Bronco.

  38. Ashley says:

    Gonna mention also as someone who has loved all of this season apart from a few niggles,(Chuck leaving Sarah in that Prague station my biggest) didn’t mind Shaw that much as an agent but as PLI i understood where others were coming from even tho again i always thought Chuck and Sarah would be together before the season ended and accepted the way the season was going early on (probably why i managed to love the whole season). I loved the ending and Shaw as a Villain was great in my opinion. Just wanted to let that out.

  39. Jen says:

    Hello Guys,
    Man, wasn’t that awesome????? i haven’t been able to read your posts, but i wanted to express how i feel about the finale. That first hour… OMG, the best hour of TV ever. The Chuck team really blew everything else done before out of the water for me. Emotions ran high thoughout. I yelled out of JOY when Sarah punched Shaw and cried like a baby when Papa B got shot. Zac and Sarah Lancaster where so good. Simply wow!
    I wish Ellie wouldn’t have asked Chuck to quit being a spy, i’m sure this will lead to more lying to her later in S4, but i can live with that. Loved the LOVE throughout the ep:
    -Chuck’s love for Sarah and his family
    -Sarah’s love fro Chuck “Everything i care for is in this building!”
    -Casey’s love for his daughter. Who knew Casey had been visiting the little dinner to see his daughter?
    -The love of family. Chuck sounds so hopless when they are being taken by Shaw, but the Ellie, Awesome, and Morgan come to the rescue. Morgan rocked!
    -I was so touched by the flashback of little Ellie accepting the resposibility of always being there for her little brother

    I wish we would have seen more Sarah/Ellie interaction, or some interaction at least. I also would have liked to see Awesome and Sarah comforting Chuck and Ellie, all of them together as family, the four of them in 1 frame.

    The Intersect vs Intersect was EPIC! Sarah hitting Shaw at the end of the fight to finish him off was sooooo satisfying!

    So… Chuck got intersected as a child. Was this a repressed memory that came out as he was lying on the floor? What info was in that intersect? That memory of his father telling him how special he is gave him his last push. I was wondering if he maybe wouldn’t need the governor from there on, but he does. He better not break that watch EVER!

    I kept wonderign how the heck the Buy More would end up getting blow up. It was an oopsie by Morgan. Hilarious!

    I’ve gots LOTS of work to do so i probaly won’t be able to participate at all of any discussion here. I’m off to NYC on Thursday with my best friends for memorial weekend. Hey, if you have any good food/party/sightseeing recommendations fot NY, brign them on! i’ll need them.


    • joe says:

      Jen – I feel a post coming on about Ellie not wanting Chuck to be a spy. Neither did Stephen! “It’s bad business.”

      After 20 hours of dwelling on it (and counting!) I think I get it. Just like Chuck has moved beyond the Buy More, he’s moved a bit beyond the CIA too. They may need him, and he may need them. But he’s not going to work directly for them any more than Orion did. Now if Sarah asks for help on a particular CIA mission, that’s another thing entirely!

      When I first realized that they were telling us he resigned from the CIA, I didn’t understand Sarah’s reaction. I was thinking that she doesn’t want to resign, (“Everything I love is here!” referred to Chuck and to the CIA, I think), and I reflexively thought that this would be a wedge coming between them.

      But it’s not. I change jobs frequently as a contractor, and that doesn’t bother my wife at all. Chuck and Sarah aren’t tied by the thin thread that is their job, but by their chosen embrace now. Chuck’s got a new mission from his new fortress, and Sarah is going to be a partner and his asset regardless of his position in either the Buy More or the CIA.

      Hey! I like that!

      • jason says:

        I was thinking it could work either way, chuck working alone as orion, chuck – morgan working as orion, or chuck – sarah working as orion. FEdak did say in his sepinwall interview (I think) something about morgan – casey as a team and chuck – sarah as a team, but who knows exactly what that means. I would probably prefer chuck sarah casey morgan and casey daughter all become the orion agency – but that is just me – I am not so sure this show can handle 2 similtaneous spy plots – writing wise or more importantly budget wise.

      • Crumby says:

        Joe I took Sarah’s “Everything I care about about is in that building!” as reference to Chuck and the CIA, as well.

        It explained to me why she stayed when Chuck ran away, she didn’t want to leave everything behind in the hand of the Ring and Shaw.

        But I didn’t thought Chuck quitting would be a problem. I think she was just surprised, and it was played so that we could think she may have a problem with it, until she said she didn’t.

        I remembered her “I don’t want you to chose me over something that you want for yourself” from Honeymooners. I think it summed up pretty well how Chuck could make his decision alone. But I still think it’s a little insensitive to take the decision without telling her about first.

  40. Rick Holy says:

    Haven’t read every comment word for word, so if someone already brought this up, sorry. And if I’m “stretching” things a bit – sorry for that, too.

    But did you catch the rather nice “parallel” between Sarah putting the “governor” (watch) on Chuck’s wrist and when Chuck put his mother’s charm bracelet on Sarah’s wrist back in “Vs. Santa Claus”??

    Not anything significant, but I thought it was a nice touch. After all, it could have been Chuck who just pulled it off of the fallen Shaw and put it on – but it wasn’t – it was Sarah.

    I’m looking forward to watching the finale again – and I hope, especially if Julia Ling isn’t going to return – that Alex will be back, at least from time to time – as a “love interest” for Morgan.

    I’m also enjoying the “blossoming” Casey/Morgan dynamic. One of you previously noted how Casey’s previous aggravation with Chuck’s past “spy ineptitude” is now being transferred to Morgan. I think that’s a brilliant move by the writers. This way it keeps that aspect of Casey (the grumbling, growling part) around.

    All in all, a great “2nd half” and an outstanding ending to Season 3! Bring on the DVD’s with the outtakes and special features!!!

    And Happy Summer, everybody!! Keep on Chuckin’!

    • ChuckNewbie8 says:

      She finally gave him something! Awww….

      • the shrink says:

        Yea where is chuck’s ground round for his eye like he gave sarah in cougars. He got a losey ice pack!!

      • Jayhawk Fan says:

        CN8, Nick-CHARAH brought up something in the LTC thread that he saw a figure go past the apartment window just as Chuck received his last message from his father on his iphone. Wasn’t it in Preadator that Stephen said he had to “appear to have died many times”?

        One wonders?

      • ChuckNewbie8 says:

        yeah definitely. I mean we know that death in Chuck is relative. It’s just as likely Bryce comes back to life in S4 than PapaB. However I think the point is made that Chuck must now continue PapaB’s legacy and continue the search for MamaB and having PapaB die is a large part of that. So in that sense, he has to stay dead.

        NC is reaching a little I think lol. I think that was Casey’s reflection.

  41. BigKev says:

    Wow!! 2am in Oz so have only had a chance to watch once but Wow!! Subway probably gets into my top 5 for the series. For all the bumps in the first 8 episodes, since Beard the show has been outstanding. I am really hoping that Shaw is dead but no doubt that is a forlorn hope. Am flying to England tomorrow so have 24 hours in the air to commence the Season 3 rewatch! My name is Kev and I’m a Chuckaholic….

  42. Merve says:

    I’m going to have to rewatch later, especially since I can’t keep track of everything that happened in “Subway,” but here are my thoughts for now:

    – Overall, I think it was better than last year’s finale. I’d give “Colonel” the slight edge over “Subway,” but “Ring Pt. 2” blew the original “Ring” out of the water. I think that the second hour of the finale was better, but that’s kind of like saying that I like Ben & Jerry’s chocolate ice cream better than Baskin Robbins chocolate ice cream – does it really matter?

    – I’m glad that the season finale aired as a two-parter. Could you imagine being depressed for a week over the loss of Stephen Bartowski?

    – Best line of the night: Shaw’s sarcastic, wooden “Mu-ha-ha.” Runner-up: Morgan telling Awesome that not having a plan “never stopped me before.”

    – Best gag: The ringtone on the phone that Chuck put in Shaw’s pocket was the Mexican hat dance! For some reason, that caused me to laugh uncontrollably.

    – Sarah clocked Shaw. Twice. Yay!

    – It seems pretty fitting that Casey’s daughter is a badass martial arts student majoring in criminology.

    – I found it hilarious that Devon thought that the reason Ellie was cheating on him was that he wasn’t being awesome enough.

    – I love that “Pineapple” made a comeback. I also love that Morgan broke his thumbs in vain.

    – First Stephen threw Chuck’s phone out the window. Then Chuck slipped a phone in Shaw’s pocket. Does Team Bartowski have a convenient stash of iPhones?

    – Neither of the twists were very shocking, nor were either of them out of left field, but both made me excited for what’s to come. That’s how twists should be.

    – The Sarah-Shaw relationship finally paid dividends. Shaw using his intimate knowledge of Sarah to taunt her was truly despicable, but also very fitting.

    – Everything sort of came together pretty nicely, didn’t it? Even the seemingly random Dr. Kowambe plot was used to explain Shaw’s “return from the dead.” A spy will turned out to play an important role, but it wasn’t Chuck’s or Sarah’s – it was Orion’s. We even foundd out that the Ring’s goal was world domination, which we sort of suspected all along. (It would have been nice to hear that confirmation from someone other than Morgan, though.)

    – Josh Schwartz and Chris Fedak should write more episodes together. Schwartz has a knack for smoothing out Fedak’s clunkier dialogue, and Fedak just packs his episodes with unfettered awesomeness.

    – I thought that the point of the Jeffster! subplot in “Living Dead” was to give Lester the Rain costume to wear in the music video, but since Lester didn’t end up wearing the costume, I guess that the point of that subplot was just to make Big Mike Jeffster!’s manager.

    – There’s almost a 10-year age difference between Morgan and Alex. Ick. But also hilarious.

    – Sarah seems to be easily distracted by food. Was her blueberries and cream obsession a result of her work at the Orange Orange?

    – I think that the writers did a good job with Ellie’s reaction to finding out everyone’s secret. She didn’t freak out, nor did she show acceptance. It makes sense that she wants Chuck out of the spy business.

    Let this be a lesson to other television shows: this is how you do a season finale. This season finale has left every other season finale that I’ve seen this year in the dust.

    • BDaddyDL says:

      I will be rewatching this soon, but since my 15th anniversary is coming up Thursday I better be doing some other stuff. I thought how they squeezed in some fluff for Sarah and Chuck was fantastic. The Blueberrie seen really reset your emotions in preperation for some real drama.

    • HenryH says:

      The Mexican Hat Dance ring tone was a callback to the ringtone Chuck used in Undercover Lover. Sarah used it to identify one of the people who had captured him…

    • atcdave says:

      I agree almost entirely Merve. My biggest laugh was Devon’s “…the CIA? Chuck’s been with them for years…” (paraphrase). I almost choked on my Diet Coke, too funny.

      • Merve says:

        That whole scene was too funny, especially since it was capped off with Awesome’s singsong “Faithful!”

    • sd says:

      I agree Merve, I didn’t want to throw anything at the TV…I was in a happy place and intrigued about what’s next.

      I also really, really liked the pacing. I mentioned in an earlier post that Chuck never really “breathes”…it’s so fast at times…and sometimes imo at the expense of character give and take through dialog that lasts longer than a couple sentences. As a result, these two episodes “felt” as if there was richer, character development and advancement…

      Oh yeah, and Shaw was actually fun to watch…the Superman flag stunt…they really went there.

      • Merve says:

        I have to agree with you on the pacing. Things zipped by quickly, but it felt as if they were unfolding naturally instead of being rushed. I think that usually Chuck gets episode pacing right – “Dream Job,” “Pink Slip,” “Final Exam,” and “Living Dead” are the only episodes that have major pacing issues, in my opinion – but these two episodes were a perfect example of how to fill a show with stuff without making it feel as if it’s bursting at the seams.

    • Paul says:

      Merve, you keep mentioning this supposed 10yr age difference between Morgan and Alex. How do you figure? Alex is getting ready to graduate from college so she is likely around 21. Morgan is supposed to be Chuck’s age so we’re talking right around 28. HOWEVER, if you want to go by their maturity level, Alex acts like she is around 24 or 25… does Morgan (at least now anyways), so they would work as a couple. Their ages really aren’t that far apart to be quite honest with you, and nothing I find to raise an eyebrow at.

      • Merve says:

        Presumably, Alex was born in 1990 (or late 1989) if her father disappeared some time in 1989, and if Morgan is about the same age as Chuck, that makes him about 29.

      • herder says:

        Alex would be about 21(her mother was pregnant in 1989) and Morgan would be about 28 or 29 (Chuck was five years removed from being kicked out of Stanford before graduation in the pilot). These are the same age differences as between April and Andy on Parks and Recreation. The age difference there doesn’t seem to be an issue to me although it is to the characters. Morgan is a man-child so his dating someone younger is not that big of an issue.

      • Ernie Davis says:

        It will be an issue to Casey. 😉 Actually Casey will likely have many and varied issues.

      • herder says:

        Casey’s many and varied issues with Morgan being interested in his daughter is one of the things that I am most looking forward to this September. Seeing Casey trying to balance his overprotective instincts for his daughter with her likely “back off” attitude should be a scream. We’ll likely think that Lester was the one that got it easy with the mind control earlier in the season.

      • atcdave says:

        Age differences are sort of a sliding scale. I know I’ve metioned before I’m a little more than 7 years older than my wife (close to the possible difference between Morgan and Alex). When I met my wife she was a college sophmore, I was a young controller. She seemed like a sweet kid, but the age difference was too much. College kids and working adults live in different worlds. Five years later the age difference just didn’t seem like a big deal. If we next see Alex as a new college graduate looking for her first real job, the age difference should not feel as pronounced. Especially since Morgon only barely acts his age (which is an improvement for him!)

      • Ernie Davis says:

        Actually I recall the old Yenta formula was the bride should be half the man’s age plus seven years, so if Morgan is 28 the perfect match would be 21. If both were Jewish and going through a matchmaker that is…

  43. Jezie says:

    Ratings news for anybody that cares, Subway got 1.7 demo,4.96m total viewers, Ring II got 1.8 demo 5.16m total viewers.

    Whole finale “event” averages out to 1.8 demo

    Pretty dismal

    • sniderman says:

      Not surprised. It was up against the series finale of 24, for Pete’s sake. Only way it could’ve gotten even more hammered is if it had been up against the Lost finale on Sunday.

      • Jezie says:

        24 was pretty dismal too, it only managed a 2.7

      • cas says:

        I think it was DWTS that took our audience in the first hour. We all know how much nielsen family love reality shows. We got some of them back in the second hour and the rest went to TBBT and Half men

  44. BeCoolBoy says:

    Best item no one’s mentioned yet: The Different Stroke moment from Big Mike: What you talking about, Lester?

    • HenryH says:

      Haven’t seen anyone mention that all the names on the file boxes in Orion’s underground lair–Aries, Corvus, Hydra, Triangulum, Fornax, Cygnus–are also the name of constellations.

      Chuck must come from a VERY long line of astronomically-named spies.

      • sniderman says:

        Something I haven’t seen mentioned yet:

        “Well then, there are always blueberries.”

        “How is that possibly supposed to make me feel — Oh my god, these are amazing blueberries!”

      • ChuckNewbie8 says:

        Blueberries are a call back to Paris and the train…when they were having breakfast together Chuck had “chocolate and blueberries.”

      • joe says:

        … Because Europe is genius!

  45. Ernie Davis says:

    So much awesomeness it’s hard to know where to start. I may buck a trend here and say I think I preferred Ring 2 to Subway, but it’s hard to tell if I can actually separate the two. Right from the beginning I got the impression that Stephen and Sarah have had a talk. From Sarah’s “he knows what’s best for you” to “Your father wanted you to have this” is seemed that Sarah knew about the governor. I don’t know if we’ll get a back story later, probably not. Imagine also Sarah telling Chuck to switch off his spy mode and enjoy the blueberries. Just priceless.

    The spy plot was pretty well done, Shaw drawing Chuck and the team into a trap to discredit them and Beckman, and Stephen seeing right through it but not being able to stop his son was a good idea. A few holes, yes, but nothing major.

    Ellie’s enlightenment took almost the whole first episode and part of the second, and I’m glad. I thought Awesome’s wasn’t really that well done, and put it down to him getting married, I thought that like Ellie he should have had a lot more questions. But I did love Awesome’s pinning the bachelor party on the CIA. Team B’s B-team was great. Awesome and Morgan are the new, well Awesome and Morgan. I loved the little touches like “Whoa, you called me Devon” and Awesome getting drunk with Jeffster.

    More little touches; a post it on Big Mike’s phone “Find out that Casey guy’s B-day”. I’m going to miss the Buy More. I can’t imagine Jeff, Lester and Big Mike (once Jeffster is cleared after Chuck takes on his first case) won’t end up working someplace together. Maybe they’ll manage a rock club since Jeffster will obviously take off after the publicity from their outlaw status. I guess I’ll just be content to wait and see. Although if Big Mike is re-assigned to the Beverly Hills Buy More. along with Jeffster that could be pretty good too.

    And I guess that brings me to the best part of these two as a finale. They managed to reset the show without blowing it up. Well mostly. Chuck will be a spy, but his own spy. He’ll again be trying to keep his two lives separate and need to keep secrets. Morgan can take Chuck’s place in the CIA, and either Sarah stays on to be the official government liaison to the new Orion or she joins him and Casey’s new team brings on a talented young criminologist with some martial arts skills who ends up being Morgan’s PLI and protector. Two spy teams, each wonderfully dysfunctional in their own way. Team Casey, the old Team B dynamic, and Team Bartowski, the dynamic we saw in Role Models.

    Looking forward to another season of Chuck.

    • Warp says:

      Reset the show without blowing it – Well said!
      Wouldn’t mind your prospect of the future Chuck to come true,too 😉
      Lots of potential for suspense, secrets and “friendly competition”. Even lies (albeit professional ones only, please)

    • Merve says:

      Like you, I preferred “Ring Pt. 2” to “Subway,” but does it really matter which one was better if both are in my top 5? 🙂

    • atcdave says:

      My only concern in all this has to do with how much they split the two worlds. I hope Chuck doesn’t try to keep secrets from family again, the constant lying was probably my least favorite part of the back six episodes. And to me, it is exciting beyong words to have the whole gang involved in the action.

    • Hope says:

      I think next season the whole gang won’t be known as Team B anymore since Chuck is taking over his father’s work and becoming the next Orion. Operation Orion would be the next mission, and the team could get a new name. Team O. I like it. 🙂 I want the whole gang not just one or two but everyone in Chuck’s family it won’t be the same otherwise.

  46. Warp says:

    Just finished watching.

    OMG …. wow, awesome… what a season finale!
    – I think I really have to apologize for my last weeks criticism.
    For me these two episodes were nearly perfectly done (and I totally agree with Merve and sd about the pacing & twists & everything, too; Still have to read a lot of other comments). So many great moments. What a great conclusion to a (partially) flawed season (maybe TPTB really thought they wouldn’t get another one???).

    …Sorry, just had to reboot…

  47. Robert H says:

    Epic? Awesome? Are you kidding me? I agree with Liz
    James. Just what was so great about this “finale”

    It reminded me about the 2 hour season premiere
    which started Season 3 on it long, downward demise.
    At best the finale was a disappointment, at worst,
    well use your imagination….

    First, Chuck. All season long he has been as a much
    weaker personality than in seasons 1 and 2. At least
    the producers have been consistent here, badly
    consistent but nevertheless consistent. He lies to
    just about everybody-Sarah,Morgan,Ellie, etc. and he
    is still lying ath the end. I am sick to death of
    his lies, it’s disgusting.

    He’s supposed to be a “man” now right? But a real
    man would never allow his sister, no matter how
    understandbly upset about her father’s “death” and
    being lied to, to dictate to him about how he is
    going to live his life especially when that life
    directly affects the woman he supposedly “loves”,
    Sarah. He then informs Sarah they are out of the
    spy business because big sister has laid down the
    law and he must do as she says. Of course it isn’t
    put exactly this way but it’s the bottom line. He
    doen’t even discuss this with Sarah. Because they
    are operating in crisis mode Sarah has to accept this for the time being. But long term she would
    have to think, does she really want their lives to
    be ruled by Ellie? If Chuck is that weak does she
    really want a life with that type of a guy? Ellie
    is definitely the stronger of the two siblings and
    she dominates her husband. She may come across as
    bitchy and shrewish but she is a strong personality,
    no doubt about that. Too bad her brother appears
    not to have that strength. However Ellie forgets
    one thing. Her brother is not a little boy anymore.
    He’s supposed to be a grown man with a will of his
    own. Someone needs to check Ellie’s domineering
    influence. Since Chuck and Devon are too weak to do
    it, I’m guessing it will have to be Sarah simply
    because she is the stronger personality of the couple and will bide her time before confronting
    Ellie. It may even come down to a choice for chuckie
    boy-the woman he supposedly “loves” or his sister.
    We’ll have to wait and see.

    Shaw is right when he tells Chuck he is weak when
    Chuck refuses to “kill” him. He murdered his father
    in cold blood when it wasn’t necessary but simply
    out of spite. Chuck was willing to “kill” Shaw to
    save Sarah but not willing to kill avenge the murder of his own father? Are you kidding me? Since
    Sarah was right there maybe Chuck thought Sarah
    would not approve and leave him. Does Sarah really
    think that it was ok for Chuck to “kill” Shaw to save her but not ok to avenge his father’s murder?
    If that’s really the case, then I think Chuckie boy
    needs to get a new girl friend. Somehow though I
    think Sarah would have understood.

    Another reason Chuck or someone needed to kill
    Shaw was for purely security reasons. Shaw too has
    and intersect and could easily escape captivity. I
    don’t believe he was killed in the explosion and he
    will be back to endanger all of their lives again.
    You could see the contempt in his eyes for chuck
    when he was taunting him. The contempt is justified
    even though Sarah told Chuck not killing Shaw was a
    sign of strength, not weakness. Huh? Does she really mean that or is she just “protecting” Chuck’s weak ego? After all, she herself cold bloodedly murdered a Fulcrum agent on Christmas Eve
    in Season 2 because it was necessary to prevent a
    greater evil from occurring. Killing is a part of that world they chose to live in and if either one
    can’t or won’t do it when necessary then they need
    to be doing something else-like working at Buymore
    or the Orange-Orange for the rest of their lives.

    The only good thing about this finale was the
    Morgan-Casey relationship. They were simply hilarious. Poor Casey, first he had to put up with
    Sarah and Chuck. Now he has to deal with Morgan and
    Alex, especially as a father protecting his daughter. It appears Anna Wu is out except maybe as
    a rival with Alex for Morgan. Now that would be fun to watch if it develops. we will have to wait and

    I’m glad season 3 is over. On the whole, with few
    exceptions, a very bad trip. I simply don’t trust
    the producers any more but that’s for a future post.

    Sorry for the long comment here. Thanks for your

    his own father?

    for the time being

    • atcdave says:

      While I agree with some of your comments about Chuck’s lying and being bullied by his sister; I really disagree about the killing issue. I think it ends up in a moral grey area. While Shaw clearly deserves a death sentence, we are a people of law and due process. I wouldn’t have squirmed a bit if Sarah had taken the initiative and offed Shaw, like she did Mauser; but I think its a sign of courage, good faith, and moral strength to trust the system to deal with one of its own. I completely agreed with Sarah’s assessment, and see it as character growth. She is no longer just scared of loosing Chuck, she now cares about his values and character.

    • 904 says:

      A blog comment seemingly written in verse? How’d that happen?

      But, to your points:

      1. Chuck didn’t tell or even ask Sarah to quit the CIA with him. He simply said he made a promise to his sister, and he intended to keep it. He even asks Sarah if she could love a “regular guy.” She had an out, and she seems content with this decision. Even if he’s not a spy, he has shown he can handle himself. Sarah won’t have to be his protector anymore, so this setup is different than before Season 3’s Chuck-gression.

      2. If we want to like Chuck and believe in his “Chuck-ness”, then vengeance flies in the face of everything we know about Chuck. He will do anything to protect those he loves, but he’s not one to seek vengeance. That’s the point. That’s why Sarah loves him. That’s why everyone in his life admires him. he came close in Tic-Tac and he could have done it here, but it would have been a terribly disappointing turn for his character. Whereas Sarah has been portrayed as pragmatic in her work since the beginning (and why Mauser was not out of character), our Chuck wouldn’t be willing to kill unless there was an alternative. Again, finding the alternative way of doing things has been Chuck’s M.O. and part of the show’s appeal.

      • joe says:

        A blog comment seemingly written in verse? How’d that happen?

        – because “Please. We’re fantastic.”

      • 904 says:

        Ah, a throwback to halcyon days of the first date. How far we’ve come. That episode seems so quaint now.

      • Karen says:

        A blog comment seemingly written in verse? How’d that happen?

        Posting from an IPOD/IPhone sometimes messes up the format like that

    • lizjames says:

      Hey, wait, I didn’t say I didn’t like the finale. In fact, I said I thought Subway was brilliant. I just brought up a few things that will be troublesome going forward.

      And killing Shaw there would have been wrong. Chuck made the right decision–and so did Sarah for clocking him and then reaffirming Chuck’s values. Besides, there’s no equivalency to Mauser. Mauser was going to out Chuck. Shaw was just taunting Chuck. Besides, the Ring was already broken. Killing Shaw there would have been naked, ugly revenge. I don’t want Chuck and Sarah in that business.

      As for the Ellie thing, well, as I said, it doesn’t make sense. But it’s one of those plot-drives-character things they did too often in Season 3. It may not even be an issue in Season 4.

      Besides, at a minimum, Chuck will be hiding whatever stuff he does in Season 4 from Ellie. Otherwise, there’s no season…

      • joe says:

        Good points, especially re: Mauser.

        You reminded me, about those secrets. I didn’t quite get it until today, but there *will* be secrets. Sarah’s will contains what she knows, and who she is, and Chuck’s not going to open that. It contains her secrets. She trusts him with them, but he won’t know them.

        Does Chuck have any secrets left? I’m having a hard time thinking of any (except maybe that he let Jill escape…)

      • JC says:

        Getting an Intersect as kid is a pretty big secret. I wonder if Orion told Bryce and that’s why he was so confident Chuck could handle it.

      • Merve says:

        Liz, I wholeheartedly agree with you about Chuck not killing Shaw. Killing him would have been nothing but revenge and would have diminished Chuck’s character in my eyes.

        I don’t really agree with the notion that Ellie wanting Chuck out of the spy life is an instance of plot driving character. Ellie has always been overprotective of Chuck – that’s established in the pilot episode and explained in fuller detail in “Sizzling Shrimp.” By the end of season finale, Ellie has only seen the ugly side of the spy life: she was manipulated by an evil man and then she saw her father killed before her eyes. She hasn’t seen firsthand all of the great things that Team Bartowski has done. Letting her younger brother continue in the spy life after all of that would be contradictory to her previously established personality.

      • Ernie Davis says:

        I think there is an interesting direction they’ve opened up here. I specked that both Chuck and Sarah want to be spies, but on their terms. Sarah has obviously broken with the CIA several times when she had to choose Chuck or career, and Chuck was ready to quit when he thought being a spy was getting orders to kill people rather than what he originally thought, saving the day and helping people.

        Chuck has an obvious setup to be the new Orion, and be a freelance spy. Sarah may still be CIA, but it opens an interesting story. What if a young Sarah Walker at some point saw the CIA as her redemption. At some point both Chuck and Sarah have become disenchanted enough to consider leaving the spy life. How would Sarah react to the possibility of being a freelance spy on her own terms?

        Another interesting possibility, will young Alex need a mentor, both in the spy world and to teach her how to find love in that world? Or will Alex need to find a big sister? A brother figure? A possible aunt and uncle?

        The family dynamic that is being specked opens up a lot of possibilities. What is Casey up for now that Alex knows he’s her father? Has she told her mother? Can her mother forgive Casey?

        All I can say is that there are all these directions available, and while I hope they stick with the comedy/action/spy drama I really hope they don’t gloss over a lot of the family dynamics they seemed to ignore for much of this season.

      • atcdave says:

        Merve that’s an interesting point. perhaps if she sees the good Chuck (and Sarah) can do she will change her mind. Set up a sort of Burn Notice situation, someone desperately needs help, and Ellie knows her brother might know something about dangerous situations… that could be fun.

        Some fun specs Ernie. I really do hope we see a sort of super TeamB where everyone gets involved from time to time. And of course Alex will be the love of Morgan’s life, just so we can see Casey’s reaction.

    • kg says:


      I can’t agree with you that Chuck’s personality or even his character has been weakened. I undertstand the lying bothers some fans, but the truth is he’s been taught to do that by people who are expert at it. He almost can’t help himself any more.

      And intrinsically, I agree with you that it appears problematic on the surface. Still, I believe Chuck honestly believes he does it to protect the ones he loves. I don’t think he believes his lies and information withholding is hurting anybody. The only possible damage is how withholding elements affects the loved one.

      Initially, I was in your camp regarding how he folded so easily to Ellie’s request. And then Weaselone got me thinking further.

      I think the explanation here is simple. Chuck gets stuck trying to please all the people in his life he loves. He can’t please everyone, but tries anyway. And obviously, the women get first preference.

      Like Joe pointed out recently, there’s no way Chuck can promise Sarah that nothing will happen to either one of them, but in saying that he’s not going anywhere, he can at least comfort a loved one who’s worried about the future and sincerely promise Sarah he’ll always be there for her.

      Finding out that her brother, husband, father and friends were all somehow involved in this big secret and she was the last to know certainly had to be unsettling. And then, smack, her father is murdered by Shaw simply out of jealousy, and to taunt her brother and seemingly cause his intersect to malfunction.

      I now believe Chuck made his promise to Ellie out of respect for what had recently transpired. I recall Ellie saying she was a “normal person.” That was Chuck’s initial reaction three years ago. Remember? And as soon as he got a free moment, he did give Sarah an out and asked her if she could love a regular guy.

      Sarah is a special woman and kindly responded that she fell in love with a regular guy. She’s all in. She appears comfortable doing whatever Chuck wants to do. And I believe deep down, she knows Chuck isn’t through with the spy world. She’s a smart lady. As an experienced handler, I think she knows that Chuck handled his sister to a degree.

      As for Shaw, he’s a classic fraud and coward. And those types of characters when defeated by somebody smarter and better always taunts the hero to kill so that the smarter, better person can sink to his level. Sarah is correct. It’s one of the many elements that make Chuck great. She sensed that as far back as the ballerina scene in the pilot. And he kept doing unique things in the first two seasons to reinforce that truth.

      Ellie only got fragments of the story from Devon and Morgan. You’re right Robert. Sarah needs to sit down and tell Ellie that her brother, like her father, is an American hero. She needs to tell Ellie that Chuck and she are a formidable tandem. Sarah needs to inform her that although their profession is dangerous, it is necessary to protect and help people. That they possess unique skills. She needs to impress upon Ellie that she’s in love with her brother and would do everything in her power to aid and protect him.

      I’m not so sure she can convince Ellie to stop meddling in Chuck’s life. I’m not so sure Sarah wants to.

      If we’re talking about me, then, yeah I would have probably killed Shaw if I had the chance. But we’re talking about Chuck. He’s not a killer. Not necessarily a vengeance seeker.

      And as for the situation in Paris, Chuck tried to stop Shaw without killing him, but was unsuccessful. He only fired at Shaw because the villian was about to toss an immobolized woman, his woman, into the river. And Shaw was about to fire at Chuck. Self defense. He did what he had to do.

  48. Karen says:

    So is it me or did the ring elders look like your average group of middle aged suburban retirees on a weekend trip to Vegas?

    Episodes were fun, I m still as indifferent towards Shaw as I was 4 months ago though. Plus he’s still alive and available to guest again. Bestill my heart. And he got to call Sarah Sam again. Nice. Talk about burning the ashes of something you painstakingly built up over Season 1 and 2.

    And didn’t much care for the same ol same ol reboot. Oh is he in the spy life? is he out of the spy life? is he on the fringes? Guess Season 4 Episode 1: Oh Ellie dang our mum is alive, need to get back into the spy game to find her then I ‘ll really quit. Epic game changer? Not really.Replace Castle with Orion’s bat cave by episode 3 I guess and all’s wrapped up in a pretty little bow.

    I like softie Casey with the side of old Casey. Hope we get to see more of papa bear Casey in S4. And more Sarah backstory. Morgan is just awesome at this point, Joshua steals most of the scenes he’s in. I m definitely glad the Morgan character has been brought front and center, THAT in my opinion is the only good thing Season 3 achieved. Yeah I know, chuck/sarah blah blah, sorry, I ‘ll stick with Morgan.

    • joe says:

      Heh! *I* look like an average middle-aged suburban retiree when I’m in Las Vegas too! Of course, we know that I’m really a former rock-‘n-roll star, ninja assassin, rocket-scientist brain surgeon on the verge of writing super-stardom. Right? 😉

      Oh wait. Forget the brain surgeon part. The rest is TRUE!!!

      • Karen says:

        Yeah but you ‘re not the head of an international espionage operation that has designs on taking over the world. Or are you? 🙂 (and if you are, are you hiring?) 😛

        I just meant they looked too average for what they were supposed to be. I mean (and I mean no offense to anyone with this) but if you wanted to do the tried and tested Japanese tourist with a camera taking pictures of everything joke, that ring elder guy would definitely be the one to cast. He looked utterly out of place.

      • atcdave says:

        You mean you’re Buckaroo Banzai?!

      • joe says:

        Oh gee! My secret identity is no longer secret. (But I’m so relieved that *someone* got the reference! I feel so much lighter now. 😉 )

      • herder says:

        Dave beat me to the reveal of your secret identity, foiled again

    • Paul says:

      Karen, just because they look unassuming doesn’t mean they are not dangerous. REAL villians don’t look like Ernest Blofeld. Besides, by looking normal, even somewhat UN-terrifying, they are better able to infiltrate and blend in.

      • Paul says:

        Another thought I just had: WERE those the true Ring Elders (who really were ELDER ;)) or merely their proxies????

  49. 904 says:

    I will say it: I thought Shaw was an awesome character in the Other Guy and since.

    I think these episodes worked so well because the villain was Shaw. He was universally reviled, and he really was despicable in these episodes. I am glad he was back and used in this way. I think I will enjoy analyzing his role when the DVD is released.

    He is my second favorite villain, behind Ted Roark (though you can’t really equate the two as they took on different villain tropes).

    We again were reminded in these episodes that Sarah has no lingering feelings for him. We shouldn’t fear his return because he truly galvanizes us and Team B in a way an anonymous villain can’t.

    I love that Shaw called Sarah Sam again. I think this proves that Sarah hasn’t seen herself as Sam in a long time. She didn’t respond to this at all, or at least as Shaw probably intended. We placed a lot more importance in this than Chuck ever did. And that scene really closed the book on the “fake name.”

    • Karen says:

      She responded to Sam EXACTLY as Shaw intended, she got mad.

      • 904 says:


        Any other reaction and a lot of us would be unnecessarily over analyzing her feelings as we did with the earrings.

        Plus, she got a little payback with her punch a-la the rooftop in vs. The Tango.

        He didn’t see that one coming.

    • joe says:

      Great thoughts, 904. I’m going to have to watch again. I remember thinking to myself “How *is* Sarah going to react to THAT??!” and then being stunned by her sucker-punching Shaw. Promptly forget to note it explicitly!

      Was that the reaction? – that amazing sucker-punch? If so, then maybe he wasn’t hoping for *that* reaction.

      • atcdave says:

        I’m thinking he underestimated how much getting Sarah Walker to loose her temper would HURT!

  50. the shrink says:





  51. ChuckNewbie8 says:

    fond farewell to in my opinion Chuck’s two best. Subway FTW.

  52. Ernie Davis says:

    Well, this may not be the place to mention it, but Chuck will need a new cover ID. Maybe he could fill the vacuum left in Burbank and start a computer install and security business, and hire a few former co-workers? Jeff? Lester? Skip?

    Sorry, Fernando was just a green shirt. He’ll be working at Underpants Unlimited by the end of the week. Unless there happens to be an opening at the O-O.

    • sniderman says:

      I know the perfect place for such a business. There’s this vacant fro-yo shop near where the Buy More used to stand. And you’ll never guess what’s in the freezer!

    • Merve says:

      Oh, horror of horrors! You made the same mistake as Lester! You referred to “Underpants Etc.” as “Underpants Unlimited.” Shame on you!!! 😛

      • Ernie Davis says:

        Hmmm… You seem to have caught me. I checked Helicopter, and the sign is indeed Underpants etc. I still seem to remember another sign that was Underpants Unlimited. They could have changed their name after all.

        So, now I have to re-watch the entire series AGAIN. Curse you. 😉

      • Paul says:

        It’s the outlet shop… 😉

  53. Jayhawk Fan says:

    I want to put this out there for everyone. I asked CN8 for her opinion, but here, Nick_CHARAH stated that he saw a “figure” go by the apartment window just when Chuck got his last Orion message on his phone. Now correct me if I’m wrong but in Predator didn’t his dad tell him that he had to “appear to die many times”. I’m sure all of us felt he had died when we saw that helicopter go up in flames in Predator. So, is dad really dead?

    • kg says:

      At this point Jayhawk, I’d say it’s a toss-up.

    • atcdave says:

      I’m leaning towards dead. But only mostly dead. I’m sure it will come down to Scott Bakula’s future work commitments.

    • Chuck604 says:

      Well everyone thought Bryce and Shaw were dead. Seems like every time someone gets shot in the chest, there is a strong chance they are resurrected. So I’m ruling out that Stephen Bartowski stays dead; they can always bring him back to life because he wasn’t shot in the head.

      • joe says:

        Absolutely. Any dead character with the exception of Mauser can come back if necessary (when Sarah kills someone, they *stay* dead). I won’t be too surprised to see Vincent. We never saw eviscera there, either.

        Maybe the only one that *will* surprise me will be the return of Roark.

      • Merve says:

        Actually, we never even saw Vincent die. He’s probably just hibernating right now. 😉

      • Ernie Davis says:

        Shaw will be the new Vincent. Remember the way he got up after the missile took out the armored truck? He’s got super regenerating tissues now! But don’t despair, it means that Chuck and/or Sarah will get to kill him at least once or twice per season as he gradually goes more insane from the governor-less intersect.

      • herder says:

        In that scene he sort of looked like the T-1000 ( Robert Patrick) from T-2 Judgement Day. Come to think of it he had the emotional range of a terminator too (what is the appropriate comment? cue Mwa-ha-ha). He could show up from time to time to ruin things for Chuck.

      • lucian says:

        Given that papa B was shot outside the door of the lab, and he has information the Ring really needs (how to build a governor), it would seem that bringing him back to life is a no-brainer (but these guys aren’t particularly bright).

        So now that the Ring has a working intersect generator, why can’t they build an army of super spies (or can they?)

      • weaselone says:

        Because Chuck knows where the installation is and the Ring has been eviscerated? If anything, team Chuck could churn out Intersects after Chuck reverse engineers the governor.

      • Crumby says:

        I think they waited to Intersect other people because they didn’t have the Governor technology yet.

  54. lucian says:

    I don’t believe Chuck gave up the CIA because Ellie coerced him. He gave it up because he realized that there were more important things in his life than being a spy. Being “that guy” and working for the CIA are not synonomous. For me, the family relationship stuff has always been one of the strengths of the show. That has been one of real issues with season three – almost completely devoid of the Bartowski clan angle. Season Four has the potential to be really outstanding if that becomes a focal point.

    • atcdave says:

      I really agree about the family angle. I don’t know if anyone here remembers, but way back in January we all posted what we were looking forward to in S3, the only thing I mentioned was the fun and warm family (or full cast) gatherings we used to see in some episodes. Apart from a false hope at the end of 3.04, it was a long time to get to any of that good stuff.

    • joe says:

      I agree, Lucian. And I really like it that Sarah’s brief smile showed that she supported him in this. I can easily imagine that she had exactly that same thought – being “that guy” and working for the CIA are not synonymous.

  55. The shrink says:

    Maybe it’s me. But did anyone else find the use of anne weird. Guess they are looking for an alex Morgan romance and had to clear the anne thing up. They kind of LOST that wrap up. Just found out that charah favorite writter Ali is in a committed relationship with Sarah Gilbert from big bang another fav show. Everything is coming up Chuck

    Hey Joe. New post idea. Five degrees of chuck. Kevin bacon eat your heart out

    • atcdave says:

      I think Anna was about “tying up loose ends”; and i think they knew Anna was a fan favorite.

    • joe says:

      I’m not sure Anna’s appearance was weird. TPTB knew she was a fan favorite, and this way, they could leave the door open to her coming back, while still having the option of not having her in the story line at all.

      Six degrees of Chuck, huh? I like it.

      Okay I’ve communicated 1-on-1 with Wendy Farrengton, who’s spoken directly to Zac Levi. Hey! I’m at a 2! Cool!

      I can do that with a “Bobby Fisher ranking” also. I believe I’m at a 3 with that.

  56. Michael says:

    Ok, guess I’m way behind, let’s make this quick:

    Overall impression of the finale after one night’s sleep (no rewatch yet): Very good, great entertainment. Not on par with the best eps though. Some negative points: Sarah seemd to soft imho, her transformation is going to fast for me. Didn’t like the editing in some scenes – Chuck vs. Shaw at the BM for example – great idea to have them battle it out with Jeffster in the background, but the cuts didn’t seem right. Casey and Sarah in the cell – don’t get me wrong, I really liked the scene, but they’re in danger of overusing the ‘Casey is a nice guy’ motif here. So please, no more scenes with Casey saying things like ‘you picked the right one – he’s growing up – he’s a real spy now’ for the next let’s say 6 eps. Anyway, with Alex around there will be more than enough opportunities for Casey to be the nice guy. Speaking of Alex – she sort of came out of the blue, but I liked her because she didn’t try to make a huge impression – she was just there and it felt good.

    Now for the two things I really loved about the finale: Ellie and Morgan. Wow, those two really shone. Ellie made it perfectly clear even to the most uncertain viewers that beneath her gentle surface, she is a very strong woman and would walk through fire to protect her friends and family. She was definitely the main female character in the finale – please step aside for the moment, Sarah. Morgan was…well, awesome. The scene in which he and Devon are trying to tell Ellie what is going on was the absolute highlight of the finale for me – Morgan was so funny and cool, behaving as if he had been a spy for most of his life…just brilliant. With the right training, this guy will become a legendary liar. Ok, gotta do some work now – I’m looking forward to rewatching it tonight.

    • jason says:

      thx for the post, I want to agree with three things you said, ellie was pretty great – I picked apart her making chuck promise to quit spying, but she was pretty awesome in the episode, chuck is the one who is the character being written from lalaland right now, #2 casey is a shipper, we get it and I agree, like so many things in this show, the writers can’t let things go, they keep repeating them over and over and over, #3 – for some reason, same as you said, the alex character really worked for me, seemed to fit and flow into the ep wonderfully. I too only watched once, did they say she just graduated from college? Don’t be surpised if that 10-12 year morlex age gap gets written into more of a 5 -7 year age gap, which is pretty common – 30 year old man and 24 year old girl for example.

    • joe says:

      Good critique, Michael. I’m starting to think that S3 had two major flaws – too much Shaw (duh!) and not enough Ellie, anything else is a nit in comparison. SL’s been exceptional every time we see her on screen. She lights it up.

      I’m more concerned with the Devon character. He was great in Angel and in Op. Awesome – playing newbie spy and experienced doctor suits him. But the character was made to do things he just wasn’t good at (like lying and keeping secrets) to be “awesome”. Easily rectified for S4, I think.

  57. Robert H says:

    Well it appears most people don’t agree with my
    above post and some of my above points have been
    agreed with by other people. That’s ok with me and
    this is what’s it’s all about, sharing points of view so we can learn from each other.

    While respecting other points of view, I still feel
    that Chuck not killing Shaw was unrealistic for two
    reasons. First, the man tried to kill Sarah once
    before and then murdered Chuck’s father in cold blood for no real reason except spite. Second from
    a spy world point of view allowing him to live with
    intersect powers would allow him to escape captivity
    easily giving him another chance to endanger all of
    their lives again. In the spy world this is simply
    unrealistic and a security liability that cannot be
    tolerated especially with trying to protect innocent

    So there’s the rub. Chuck’s reluctance to kill when
    absolutely necessary endangers all of the people in
    his life he cares about-Ellie,Sarah, Morgan etc.
    His moral scruples, while laudable and respected in
    a normal life simply do not apply in the spy world.
    Remember, the second time around, he chose the spy
    life, it did not choose him as it did when he got
    the original intersect. If he chooses to live in the
    spy world, he must abide by its rules for survival
    when necessary. Not to do so invites terrible
    consequences-his own demise and those of the people
    he loves. If Shaw could cold bloodedly murder his
    father, then he could certainly murder Ellie, Morgan, not to mention Sarah the same way.

    Once again while I certainly respect the above differing opinions regarding Shaw,I cannot agree
    that it was right and correct that his life should
    have been spared.

    By the way, I recognize that this is just a TV show,
    not real life, and should not be taken seriously.
    The show is meant to be entertaining, nothing else,
    and that’s the way it should be, thanks.

    • weaselone says:

      Shaw’s dead. He has no governor and he’s not Chuck. He’s going to mentally degrade, go nuts, and die.

      If Beckman or any other member of the government has a problem with Shaw’s continued existence they can just as easily put a bullet in his head. We’re not talking Chuck or no one here. He could even be tried in front of a military court and executed.

      • weaselone says:

        I’ll also point out that calling Chuck out for not killing Shaw while castrating him for lying is morally contradictory. If Chuck can be excused for violating his own code of ethics in order to protect others by killing Shaw then logically he should be excused for lying to Sarah and Ellie out of a desire to protect them.

      • jason says:

        something else is going on with chuck and lying in terms of the show’s writing, irregardless of who is in the room, right now, if chuck was alone in the john and said to the camera I’m going to take a poop, 50 bucks says he takes a pee – don’t know what is going on, but I thought for sure it would get addressed in the finale, maybe it just will go away in S4 like many other things (I hope)

      • weaselone says:

        *eye roll*

        Seriously, he hasn’t really been doing that much lying. He’s not season 1 and 2 Sarah.

      • Merve says:

        It wasn’t the amount of lying that bothered me; it was the fact that it was kind of unncecessary and annoying. I know that Chuck had noble intentions in lying, but after a while he should have realized that people would figure out the truth eventually.

      • cas says:

        But Sarah even said ” I never asked you to beleive me, I asked you to trust me” and even though Sarah would lie at first, she eventually comes clean about it especially towards Chuck. Chuck NEVER came clean about his lies or atleast not on his own. His dad forced him to tell the truth (DAd,knife,face) and Sarah found out the truth from Shaw of all people.

      • AngelTwo says:

        Weaselone: Actually, I DON’T think Shaw is dead. TPTB don’t want him dead. Whether by accident or design, TPTB (finally) created exactly the kind of villain that viewers love to hate. I mean, who doesn’t just HATE Shaw now?

        That makes him too good a villain to kill off.

        And keeping him alive is actually fairly easy. Some ways you can do it:
        A) Claim Shaw is exactly the kind of emotionless spy that the Intersect was designed for. Thus he’s immune to its negative effects. (We will, of course, ignore his vengence, revenge and other my-wife-is-dead emotions…)
        B) Claim that since he’s been sequestered in the kind of solitary we saw the much less dangerous Jill being held in, he doesn’t flash. And if you don’t flash, you don’t degrade.
        C) Claim Kwambe’s regenerative technology also works to continually replenish Shaw’s brain. (Hell, if we can be saved from four shots to to vitals, what’s a little neurologic dipsy do.)
        D) Claim that the Ring’s version of the Intersect was never as powerful as the original Intersect, thus the degradation was never as severe.
        E) Claim that the Intersect works differently on different people. And while it was killing Chuck, it made Shaw crazy. Thus making him a manaical Joker type when he returns.
        F) Claim that while Shaw had the governor, Ring scientists began duplicating it and that a working governor was slipped to him, Herman Goering like, in his cell.
        G) Claim that Chuck’s multiple Intersects made him more suspectiple to its ill effects.
        H) Admit its effects and work it into the character when he returns at the end of Season 4. He’s escaped from jail to take Chuck and Sarah with him in one final burst of suicidal vengence a la Khan in Star Trek II. (That would allow Chuck, somewhere in the middle of the episode, to do a Shatner imitation. You know, look at the sky and yell: “SHAW!!!!”)
        I) Ignore it because, well, it’s what you do in TV.

        Bottom line, though? “Killing” Shaw off-screen has zero dramatic value. And while I actually adored Chuck’s refusal to kill him again, Sarah’s clocking him and then celebrating Chuck’s humanity, everyone probably DOES want the moment when Chuck and Sarah simultaneously fill him with lead, guns blazing in unison.

        That moment will probably come on their wedding day, in fact. Unless, of course, you want Sarah pulling a shiv from her wedding-day garter as her weapon of choice…while Chuck drive a tank over him, a la the roller ending of A Fish Called Wanda. 🙂

      • weaselone says:

        Most lies have a tendency to be unnecessary and annoying. It was mainly how they were played in these episodes than their existence. Chuck’s been lying all three seasons.

      • weaselone says:

        I think that would be a great way to utilize Shaw again.

        Have Shaw stand when the minister asks if anyone has objections to the union.

    • jason says:

      robert, son of a gun – you took my job – i’m the one who tries to rile everyone up with some unpopular opinion – I tend to agree with you to at least some point – my major flaw in in your argument might be if indeed a ‘smart’ spy would kill shaw, sarah was 3 feet away and shaw was defenseless, I assume she knows how to snap necks & has as much to lose by shaw’s return as chuck, and casey was around too (and his role is to do the dirty work, plus shaw knows about alex), plus the most lethal guy could be morgan, has anyone survived yet from the morgan?

      • kg says:

        I’ve been thinking the same thing Jason has. Robert, I don’t think too many people disagree with you that Shaw should die. You make a great case as to why.

        The question is why does it have to be Chuck? As Casey says, “the kid’s just not wired that way.” He’s admittedly not a typical spy.

      • Crumby says:

        I agree Chuck doesn’t have to do justice himself. This is not who he is.

        Who says Shaw won’t be executed?

        I think he should be used as a lab rat. He has an Intersect an everybody wants him to suffers. 😉

      • Cas says:

        According to the final exam, he must be executed as he is the ultimite mole. Bringing him back will be another plot hole that I’m sure they will once again ignore to get the story going.

  58. Robert H says:

    Jason, really appreciate your comment. Didn’t mean to take your job. Maybe we can share it for a while
    and rile people together.

    Obviously very few people support my views on this
    and that’s ok. I’ve made my points, will stand by
    them, and it’s time to let it go so I’m going to do
    just that while respecting different points of view.

    Shaw one way or another is probably going to return
    whether I like it or not so it’s time to move on.

    Fedak mentioned in an interview with Sepinwall they
    are not planning on separating Chuck/Sarah again
    for a whole season and accepts them as a couple. However he didn’t mention the possibility they may
    be separated again for a while during the next season. If Chuck is going to run his own operation,
    where does that leave Sarah,Casey, and Morgan? Are they still working for the government or not? If they are there is the possibility the producers may
    separate them again. I hope the producers know that
    going down this road again will be disastrous for
    the show. They may be forgiven by the fans once for
    the idiocy of Season 3. They will not be forgiven
    again if Chuck/Sarah are separated in Season 4.

    By the way does anybody know if NBC restored the
    budgets made in Season 3 for Season 4? The budget
    cuts really did hurt the show’s quality. Any comments on this would be appreciated, thanks.

    • Crumby says:

      I’m kind of worried that TPTB think that as long as CS are together as a couple everybody will be happy and make the mistake to separate them a lot on screen again through the spy story.

  59. Pingback: Episode of the Week: Chuck vs The Subway (3.18) | Chuck This

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