Delete That Scene!

And Why Oh Why Would You Do That???

These don’t qualify as spoilers, but they do inform fans in a way nothing else does. Today Spoiler TV gives us three deleted scenes from season 3 of Chuck, which, I assume, are about to be released on the forthcoming DVD in just two weeks.

Unlike some of the season 2 delete scenes (I’m thinking specifically of Chuck and Sarah enjoying pizza and red wine after Bryce’s reappearance and Sarah swatting away the bridal bouquet at Ellie’s wedding reception), these do not seem to change drastically the mood or color of any episode. They do, however, seem to add to what’s there. I can only believe they were cut for time, because they certainly seem to work!

– joe

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About joe

In my life I've been a professor, martial artist, rock 'n roller, rocket scientist, lover, poet and brain surgeon. I'm lying about the brain surgery.
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160 Responses to Delete That Scene!

  1. alladinsgenie4u says:

    That third scene (from 3×10) with poor Chuck all alone in the courtyard – looking in on first the happy Awesomes and then at the lonely Casey and then looking toward the entrance hoping to see Sarah walk in – a very heartbreaking scene. And then Morgan is there for him. Bromance at its best. I wonder if the scene is any longer – because I recall Rafe Judkins and Lauren LeFran saying in an interview that a scene was cut from 3×10 that involved Morgan coming to Chuck meaning to ask about his missions and both end up talking about Sarah.

    The discussion with Morgan about Hannah is obviously from Beard – maybe it is the scene immediately after the one where he calls Awesome – who is at the retreat with Ellie and brushes him off, when Chuck tries talking to him. This too fits perfectly in the episode.

    And the scene between Casey and Awesome – obviously right after the scene in 3×11 where Sarah gives Chuck his mission (stakeout). Awesome going “ohhhm” was hilarious.

  2. BDaddyDL says:

    to me the third scene in the courtyard was extremely bittersweet. For me though this was part of the beginning of the end of this dark arc. Chuck finally knew what he wanted…Sarah Walker

    Why yes that is a glass half full, why do you ask?

  3. hiswings says:

    Man I wish they had not cut the second and third scenes from the episodes – those were really good clips – had to have been for time’s sake. The one with Casey and Awesome was fine to leave out. But the other two clips would have added more depth and meaning to the episode. Or course, I personally am the one who goes for all the extended versions because they make the story seem more real.

    The heartbreak in Chucks eyes in the courtyard was very rich. Thanks for sharing – can’t wait to get my S3 DVD set now.

  4. aardvark7734 says:

    Speaking of DVD sets, I got burned last year when it turned out after I had already pre-ordered the S2 set on Amazon that Best Buy had a “special edition” set with the 3D episode and glasses. Yeah, I know, not that big a deal, but I felt slighted since I basically had no way to choose in that situation.

    So, I contacted WB and they were nice enough to exchange for me.

    Now, I’ve intentionally held off the pre-order to see if something similar will happen this year. Anyone heard anything?

    • atcdave says:

      Ditto all that Aardvark. I mentioned that last year, but now is a great time to remind folks to be careful what they order. I haven’t heard of any special editions or anything this season, but if there is to be one, it will most likely be available at Best Buy, Target, and/or Walmart.

  5. OldDarth says:

    Hmmm, since there is no 3D episode to be a fly in the ointment Aardie, I doubt there is going to be any such issue this year.

    Unless they think up some promotional, upon release only, gimmick. And those tend to be big box chain specific.

    After watching those clips, especially the second, my love for the Bearded One has grown by leaps and bounds.

  6. aardvark7734 says:

    Morgan was awesome in S3. In all of the many, many posts on the subject I’ve written, I don’t think I’ve had one uncomplimentary thing to say about him.

    Of all the many elements of Chuck in this last season, it was his loyalty, bravery and integrity of character, along with maybe the music, that was consistently excellent throughout.

  7. ChuckNewbie8 says:

    Wait so…is this a query on what scene we would like deleted?

    If so you know my choices lol…

    • aardvark7734 says:

      Hah!

      Get in line. 😀

    • OldDarth says:

      Scene or episode or Season? 😉

      • ChuckNewbie8 says:

        LOL. Definitely not the season.

        Honeymooners FTW ❤

      • Merve says:

        If we’re going with episodes, then I’d get rid of “Mask,” “Final Exam,” and “Role Models.” Actually, you can keep “Mask” and “Role Models.” They were okay, but not good. However, “Final Exam” was just plain bad.

        Now, if I wanted to be particularly harsh, I’d say that the season went off the rails in “Mask” and never recovered until the season finale, so excising the portion of the season from “Mask” to “Living Dead” and then rewriting it completely would solve almost every problem with the season. But then the season wouldn’t make any sense, so I might as well just forget about the whole thing. Come to think of it, season 1 wasn’t that great either, so I should forget about it too. Now, if you’ll excuse me, I’m going to go brood in my season-2-was-way-better-than-the-other-seasons cave and hope that Chuck regains the magic it had between “Best Friend” and “Nacho Sampler.”

      • Ernie Davis says:

        Merve, much as I usually agree my opinion is that Final exam, especially the end, is the only mildly redeeming thing about Sarah’s 3.06 through 3.11 behavior. Finally we understand that Sarah’s problem is that she’s re-living her own descent into hell through Chuck, and feels responsible for destroying him. That’s why she can’t talk to him, face him, or even be near him.

      • Merve says:

        Ernie, I totally get that. That’s not one of my complaints with “Final Exam.” (Surprisingly, neither is Shaw’s presence, which I think worked very well there.) I have a lot of problems with the episode, and I think that I’ve ranted at length in comments on various posts on this blog about the misuse of Casey and the fact that Chuck was presented with the illusion of choice. But honestly, that’s just rationalization of my feelings. “Final Exam” is the only episode of Chuck that failed to entertain me. It left me with a weird, sick feeling in my stomach. No other episode of Chuck has done that.

      • atcdave says:

        I’ll actually agree with Merve here. Not about the merits of 3.13 on, but certainly about Final Exam. It was a sickening episode. If we accept it, Sarah is hypocritical and silly. She claims to have striven to be a “good spy”, and has inspired Chuck by her words and actions, yet in one contrived incident, she decides he has “changed” beyond redemption. This episode alone almost sinks the entire series. To me, its only pure self deception that allows me to continue enjoying the show; I have to reject this episode from the canon, its false to my perception of the character.

      • JC says:

        Final Exam has two major problems. One Chuck should have shot the mole. If nothing else than out of self defense. Two it relied on extreme character stupidity once again.

      • Crumby says:

        You know Ernie I’d agree if they really had addressed the whole “it was the worst day of my life” thing.

        Once she said it, she never talked about it again (apart from when she saw the video), and her red test was only used for both Chuck’s journey and the plot by revealing that she killed Eve Shaw.

        They should have showed us her problem way sooner and give it a resolution, instead of “you’re still my Chuck” and “you saved me”. How do those help with her own problems?

        Especially when the husband, and your ex-boyfriend, of the woman you killed on the worst day of your life tried to kill you and forced your new boyfriend to kill him, all of that because of the spy world, you’re first thought is of course “I still really want to be a spy”.

      • Joseph (can't be Joe) says:

        Crumby makes a good point but for me, the problem is a little more global. The whole “let’s retcon the arc into making sense in the final few episodes” is one of the major flaws they had last season. Too many pieces of the story, which would have parted the fog, were held back until some big reveal late in the arc and it backfired. The story, but also the characters, suffered for it. By the time the purpose of the excessively long, drawn out, marathon arc was revealed any sympathy we should have felt for the characters plight (Sarah for certain and likely Shaw as well) was replaced by frustration and apathy for their actions. Let’s face it Sarah was not a likeable character in the middle arc and Shaw was a failure. If the information from 3.11 and 3.12 was revealed sooner our understanding of the character’s motivations would have increased, would we have liked it any better in unsure. Mind you an early reveal of such information would result in the Sham thing being a complete and total soap opera plot point and not at all believable, and we couldn’t have that.

        Just another thought. To me, last season the story suffered because it had to carry the show when the main relationship was malfunctioning and we (read “me”) didn’t care about the relationships that were presented on the screen.

      • JC says:

        Even if they had revealed it earlier, it makes Sarah and Casey look like morons. Either they assumed Chuck wouldn’t be given a Red Test or somehow they believed he would assassinate someone. And then you have Casey’s comment about how Chuck’s not wired like us.

        Like Crumby said the whole worst day of my life issue is never mentioned again. The whole Red Test was a ham-fisted justification for Shaw’s presence and one last anvil so Chuck could have his hero moment. The episode almost butchered Sarah’s character beyond redemption.

      • jason says:

        that (the red test) is the point even those who defended 3.7 & 3.8 jumped off the ship – or did they jump onto the ship – LOL – shippers just figured out season 3 sucked until 3.14 and 3.15 redeemed the season with complete epicness, then 3.16 thru 3.19 just sort of patchworked into the shaw misery arc with chuck and sarah in a good (but not great place) – at least we got 3.14 and 3.15 to enjoy

      • jason says:

        that is shippers figured out sooner than the red test that season 3 sucked – geez where is that edit button

      • Crumby says:

        We probably wouldn’t have liked it any better but it is really tiring to feel like there’s never any resolution. Sarah was poorly treated in S3, and I wouldn’t have felt a little better about it if at least it felt like it had a purpose other than plot device.

      • atcdave says:

        Sorry to be a broken record on this, but S3 will always be just a failed example of pushing wt/wt past the breaking point. Of course I hated Pink Slip, but its really broken from First Class through Final Exam. And it could have worked effectively if they’d simply given up the wt/wt; from Sarah actually visiting and consoling a still despondent Chuck at the end of Nacho Sampler, to actually discussing her Red Test experience and concerns with Chuck before the clumsy reveals started in Final Exam. The season would have had significant dramatic impact without the dreaded s-angst that alienated and POed so much of the fan base.

      • Crumby says:

        Like Merve, the season really went off rails for me from Mask. That’s when Chuck and Sarah just gave up on each other.

        Anyway, I know it’s best to just move on now, but my point was that the lack of resolution just makes things worse. It’s not even about the relationship at that point.

        I could have accepted what they chose to do if I felt it served a purpose. But that didn’t happen. Instead they threw stuff in the mix never resolving anything to finally get to the point when Chuck kills Shaw and Sarah’s fine with it. And then they forgot about it all.

      • atcdave says:

        You know Crumby, I think the bottom line is they were just scared of putting Chuck and Sarah together “too early.” But they misjudged when “too early” was and went “too late” instead. I remember clearly being in these discussions in 7/2009 that what they should really fear was alienating the fan base that had just saved the show. Well, guess what…

      • JC says:

        I understand your frustration Crumby. We never found out why Graham ordered Eve Shaw killed. They wrote themselves into a corner. If she wasn’t a double agent then Sarah killed an innocent woman. If she was a traitor then all that self loathing was for nothing. And Shaw’s fall loses it’s impact which it didn’t have anyway.

      • Crumby says:

        Yeah JC. I was actually thinking about that the other day.

        With the all Mama B and Orion storyline, “doing things governments are afraid to do”, etc. Chuck and Sarah might find themselves in some grey areas, not knowing if they can trust the government etc.

        It would be the perfect opportunity to bring back, the “you don’t know who you’re working for” stuff and the red test. I mean isn’t Sarah curious about it? The worst day of her life, and she doesn’t know if Eve was rogue or not. She doesn’t know why Shaw didn’t know about this. The CIA killed his wife and let him in the dark for 5 years? All of this led to Shaw going rogue and eventually killing Orion. Doesn’t she want answers?

        They could bring that back for one episode. Doesn’t even have to be the A-plot. But at least give some resolution somehow, and maybe some backstory on Sarah and her early days in the agency.

        That won’t happen but I’m really frustrated with how they’ve treated those stuff, and I don’t think they got it. From what they said, it seems that they just focused on the relationship and the “dark” tone as fans problems, when the problems came from how they handled the whole thing…

      • JC says:

        That’s why I always harp on the show having better spy stories. Its the backbone of the show and gives a reason for the characters actions. The fact Sarah’s Red Test was the reasons for her actions all season, you’d think we’d get some kind of resolution. The same goes with those disks that drove the plot of three episodes.

    • Jan says:

      Scenes…or characters…lol

    • joe says:

      One shoulder rub? One Chinese take-out? One set of Tiffany earrings on the table?

      • Crumby says:

        The end of Fake Name is the worst. Sarah’s the one going for it. It’s just sad.

        But the earrings made me laugh.

      • JC says:

        Why would you take away the earrings scene? Wouldn’t everyone keep a gift from someone who tried to murder them.

    • herder says:

      If I had to pick one scene only to delete, it would be the taxi cab scene at the end of Tic Tac. To my mind that was a kick the puppy scene to the fans, after a string of down endings (Natcho Sampler, Mask, Fake Name) Beard had ended on an up note. Tic Tac it seemed to be a start to the repairing of Chuck and Sarah but the end spoiled that episode for me. It seemed an intentional pushing of the fans buttons.

      There were other scenes that I may have disliked more but they didn’t have the feeling of being tacked on to say to the fans that things aren’t getting better yet.

      • Ernie Davis says:

        Herder, you can see below I tend to agree with you. I think there was another reason that scene seemed out of place to me. In Tic Tac, finally, for the first time Chuck and Sarah talked to each other about how the spy life changed people and Chuck tried to re-assure her he wouldn’t let it change him. So it’s after that talk that she decides she needs to get away from him? I get the whole pill thing where Sarah has to stop him from killing, but to me it seemed as if the taxi scene tried to take back the one scene, the only scene from Nacho Sampler through Final Exam, where there was any sense that two people who had been close enough to consider running away together actually talked about anything.

      • Crumby says:

        The thing is in that scene when Sarah told Chuck “Don’t give up on the things that make you great.” she doesn’t let him speak after that. So even if he tried to reassure her about him changing, he didn’t do (or she didn’t let him do) anything that would indicate that he wants to be with her at that point.

        Basically, Chuck may still be Chuck but he’s a spy and he is still the guy that said no to her in Prague. Beckman offers her a new job. She considers it thinking it’s time to move on.

        Chuck reassuring her could be simply seen as Sarah thinking he doesn’t need her anymore, and she can go.

      • Crumby says:

        I forget to mention that having Sarah considering leaving means that Chuck has to give her a reason to stay.

      • Ernie Davis says:

        Crumby, I know what you are talking about, but Chuck did re-assure her by pushing the gun back and saying he was still that guy. It was anything more that Sarah wouldn’t let him say. But my point is that it seemed very un-natural that Chuck and Sarah rarely talked, given their relationship even as friends, and the one time they did talk in what seemed to me a perfectly natural situation that should have happened before (end of Nacho Sampler anyone?) TPTB seemed determined to take it back and make sure there was still no movement in the angst stasis they’d created. And as many have pointed out the Sarah character suffers for it.

        But you and I know it was just so Dianne could get that hussy Walker away from her Chuck. 😉

      • Crumby says:

        Dianne did well play that one!

        But I understand what you meant. They gave us hope and take it back right away.

        I just think that the problem wasn’t with Tic Tac but with previous episodes. If they had talked before, Tic Tac wouldn’t have seemed that way I think.

      • JC says:

        It wasn’t even that, like all the examples of Chuck “changing” it required Sarah jumping to the worst possible conclusion or her acting like an idiot.

        They had her play off Chuck taking the pill as him wanting to become the perfect spy. Not the fact he took it to save Casey’s ex fiancee.

      • Crumby says:

        – You wouldn’t feel anything, Chuck.
        – Right, but I could work… perfectly.

        That’s what irks her.

        Seeing him taking the pill just illustrated what she feared. He did take it for Casey but he was ready to take it just to be “the perfect spy” before that.

      • Crumby says:

        I hear what you said though JC. But I still feel that this problem was with previous episodes and not with Tic Tac. I mean, why would she NOT consider this new job offer?

      • JC says:

        I understand that beginning scene bothering her but after the conversation in the armory I would think she’d realize he wasn’t changing.

        But that scene is prime example of why this season was off. Didn’t we spend the whole previous episode with Chuck coming to terms with his emotions and flashing. The whole revelation that he still loves Sarah and then the next episode he wants to take an emotion suppressing pill? Nothing that happened in previous episodes mattered. They were just forgotten about or characters did a 180 on how they acted with no explanation.

      • Crumby says:

        Although she didn’t go to DC because of the pill. So even if she did realize he wasn’t changing, it doesn’t change anything. She still didn’t know Chuck wanted to be with her.

      • JC says:

        I don’t know, the way that scene played it was implied she was leaving because of what she saw Chuck do. But it could either way honestly.

        I’m hesitant to say it was because she thought he didn’t want to be with her. She did know he broke up with Hannah and his confession in Three Words. of course trying to explain Sarah’s actions from Fake Name to Other Guy makes my brain hurt.

      • Crumby says:

        The thing is in Three Words he said “I love you that’s why I’m doing this”. He didn’t say that he wanted to be with her. The first time he did say it, in Final Exam, she almost kissed him.

      • JC says:

        Yeah you’re right about that. I never got why he had to choose one or another. The whole spies don’t fall in love stuff from the first two seasons seemed to be the justification until they introduced the Shaws and the Turners.

      • Merve says:

        To be fair, Shaw’s twisted love drove him to become evil, and the Turners kept getting divorced and remarried, so if anything, they actually reinforced the idea that spies shouldn’t fall in love.

      • JC says:

        Except that neither of those issues are solely related to the spy world. Having your spouse murdered could drive anyone crazy whether you’re a spy or a farmer. The same goes with the Turners, people get divorced and remarried all the time.

      • Merve says:

        You have to look at it in context, JC. Shaw exacted his revenge in the spy world. Sure, someone else under different circumstances might also have been driven insane, but being a spy, the consequences were more significant for Shaw and for everyone else.

        As for the Turners, it was heavily implied that working for the CIA put stress on their marriage. If that weren’t the case, then the episode could have been about a spy couple with a perfect marriage.

      • JC says:

        I get what you’re saying Mevre. But in the first two seasons the idea of spies falling in love was presented as almost impossible. It just didn’t happen because of the job. The issues brought up by the Shaws and the Turners could be any couple who had dangerous jobs. Be it FBI, police, military, etc. None of it was specifically because they were spies.

    • Joseph (can't be Joe) says:

      I’m late. Apologies if this has apready been mentioned.

      My “If I could delete one scene”,is easy. The worst very worst scene in 3 seasons of Chuck.

      The name reveal.

      I would rather never have known Sarah’s real name.

    • atcdave says:

      I choose just that little bit between when Chuck is looking at all his friends at the dinner table at the end of Operation Awesome until “still my Chuck” in Other Guy. Other than that, the season was great (oh yeah, and Pink Slip too).

    • Merve says:

      A scene I’d like deleted: the vault confession. I didn’t appreciate the melodrama. (Before you jump on me, as you all are wont to do, I didn’t find most of the rest of the season melodramatic. If you did, then that’s too bad for you.) I know that removing it would ruin the plot, but it was the worst part of an otherwise enjoyable episode.

  8. Frea O says:

    I have no problem with absolutely none of those scenes making it into the episodes. ESPECIALLY the third scene, which, yes, kudos to Zachary Levi and Josh Grimes for pulling that off as it was a beautiful scene, but I feel like that scene, combined with the ending we already got to that episode, would have been even more of a punch to the face than the one we got at the end of that episode. Also, that scene dragged up my disgruntled feelings about how we had to give up Sarah’s character to make Morgan even more awesome in S3. Not that I mind having a great Morgan, but they didn’t have to turn my favorite character into a plot chameleon to sell the bromance. Which is a different rant for a different day.

    And the second scene is just a rule of screenwriting–if you have two scenes that do exactly the same thing (i.e. that scene and the part where they’re in Morgan’s office and he walks over his desk), cut the fat.

    The scene with Awesome meditating? I wouldn’t have minded that scene in there because hee, Awesome with a wee little gong. And Casey’s patented “I hate this assignment!” sigh. 🙂

    • jason says:

      the old writing team struggled with over-writing characters, in season 3 both shaw (mentor, lover, boss, rival, villain) and morgan (brave, best friend, smart, etc) got overwritten.

      This same writing style caused me to fall in love with the sarah character in season 1 / 2 – as well as liking casey and chuck – all 3 in some ways got overwritten in s1/2.

      Not sure what season 4 will lead to, seems in lots of ways morgan is going to get overwritten again (cs’s roomate, orion’s partner, casey’s partner, a suit at buymore with should cause him to interface alot with greta, alex’s LI or PLI) –

      I wonder what else will go over the top in season 4? I’m thinking it will be faux engagement / wedding references with lots of fighting, mis-steps, and maybe continued lying / deception.

      I am still hoping the show finds more balance than that, based on the glimpses of season 4, it appears it might, we’ll know soon enough

    • Ernie Davis says:

      Always a pleasure to see you stop by Frea, but aren’t you supposed to be chained to a desk writing another chapter of “Fates” for us? 😉 Just kidding. I want to read Bank Job too.

      I sort of agree with you on the scenes, but with slight differences. I get the impression that the Chuck and Morgan breakfast scene was an either/or scene with the best friend firing in Beard. Like the infamous bathtub scene on the leaked call sheet that probably morphed in to Sarah raiding the fridge in her nightie they either didn’t like the first pass at what they were trying to show or felt the need to change it for time or some other unknown reason.

      I tend to agree that the fountain discussion would have upped the angsty ending to Tic Tac another notch, but again, what if they substituted it for Sarah in the cab saying I’m thinking of moving here? I’d say that would have made the end almost hopeful, with Chuck clearly re-considering his decision to break it off with Sarah but without the angsty Sarah is leaving theme being beaten once again.

      As for Awesome’s meditation scene, meh. Somewhat funny, but I don’t see it adding much to Final Exam other than a little comic relief, which I think the stake-date supplied.

      I do however want to pose a question and float a theory. How many deleted Shaw scenes do people think we’ll be treated to on the DVD bonus features? My guess, a big fat zero. Do you think we’ll see the creators expounding on the Shaw character or arc like we saw for the bro-mance last week? My guess, no. I’m even wondering if he’ll make the blooper reel.

      • jason says:

        ernie, if they had anything from 3.7 thru 3.12 which would diffuse / soften the shaw sarah romance, I am sure it will make the DVD?

        Matter of fact, such a scene probably would be a top ten scene for me of season 3 – much like the pizza scene was nice for some fans?

        Did they shoot such a scene or scenes = I really doubt it?

      • JC says:

        I’m more curious if we get deleted scenes showing Hannah as more of a stalker.

      • Ernie Davis says:

        Remember that there was huge lead time in the production last season. Basically every episode through (I think) 3.11 was shot and in the can before the premier, let alone the Shaw arc. This goes back to my theory that all the leaks we started to get (like the call sheet) from a notoriously spoiler and leak-phobic production were essentially an effort to take the sting out of what they knew was coming. They couldn’t re-shoot or re-edit any of the episodes in the front 13, so they did all they could to make sure the comitted fan base got the message that they were going to fix it in the back 6.

        I wouldn’t be surprised if we do see a few deleted Chuck and Sarah scenes in that arc that we wish were actually there. My point is that I think TPTB feel so burnt by the fan reaction to Shaw that I think it safe to say anything with Shaw that could have been added probably didn’t make the first cut.

      • Frea O says:

        Heh. Fates. Knew I was supposed to be doing something today. 😉 Bank Job’s in mxpw’s hands right now (he writes the first draft and the plot, I just get to add fun, ambiguously sexual one-liners in at a later point), so I get to come over here and play!

        As Yvonne once put it, “Pooooor Brandon.” You can tell they loved him on set, but now they’ve adopted sort of a “Shaw? What is this Shaw that you speak of?” mentality, aka “Keep your heads down and hope it blows over.”

        Which, for the record, I am perfectly fine with.

        Seems a little sloppy to film both scenes like that, if it were an either/or sort of situation, though. Especially since they’ve got the budget driving them like it was this season. But it’s a viable theory and it made me think. Given the choice between the courtyard or the taxi, I’d still pick the taxi. Because then we’d at least see Sarah looking conflicted about her possible choice whereas Chuck’s feelings were never in doubt. Was it enough to redeem the character? Not really, but I still prefer it over the courtyard scene.

        I do think Shaw WILL make the blooper reel, though. After seeing Scott Pilgrim, I don’t think I’d mind as much, either. Deleted scenes? Yeah, no way the producers are going anywhere near that instability again without three types of protective suits, rosary beads, and possibly Wolverine-like healing powers. 🙂

      • JC says:

        Wait are you saying there won’t an interview with Fedak talking about how Shaw was a classic spy like Bond. Or his now classic other universe line.

        I don’t know about you guys but I’d love to hear it all again. I’m sure it’d be an epic game changing interview.

      • Ernie Davis says:

        Well I can certainly sympathize with wanting to play when there is writing you’re supposed to do. (Honest, the Firefly post is coming folks, I just got really behind at work for a while).

        You raise a fair point on the courtyard scene, but allow me to counter. I thought Sarah was clearly conflicted when Beckman offered Sarah the seat on the jet to DC and to discuss her request for a transfer. It seemed to me she was caught by surprise and wanted to back out of both but didn’t know how. The taxicab scene however made explicit that Sarah really was considering moving on, with Shaw, rather than being pulled along by events.

        As for filming both scenes I guess I wasn’t as clear as I should have been. My guess, in the case of the Morgan and Chuck discussions in Beard at least, is they filmed the deleted one then later decided to incorporate the material from it into the other scene for time or, as you hinted, to eliminate having two discussions when one was sufficient. In that way they could have incorporated the first scene into the one that made the cut as a normal part of the production, making the first scene a moot point.

        Good point on the blooper reel, it could be some rehabilitation for Routh, which they may feel they owe him. I feel sorry for Routh too just for the record.

      • jason says:

        ernie – I’m starting to feel sorry for him a bit, but in his original interviews, he came off enormously arrogant IMO, way b4 I saw any of season 3 I disliked him immensely. But, he has fallen on the sword for the show reasonably well (he grumbled a little, but not too much), it was more than his bad acting that torpedoed season 3 after all.

        If he is reintroduced into season 4, there is one line that he could say to chuck that would save his character forever, sort of an epic one, dare I say:

        ‘you fool, she and I never did anything other than kiss a bit and talk about you, you think you love her, you don’t know her at all, you epically misread her and my relationship’

        this line would not only take shaw and sarah off the hook, but would be a backhanded slap at all shippers like myself (you think you love her, you don’t know her at all) while still giving us exactly what we want. Plus having shaw use the word epic would be well – epic.

      • Ernie Davis says:

        Jason, I guess I never really formed an opinion on Routh as an actor. Never saw him in Superman, did see him in Zach And Miri Make A Porno. He made no real impression either way. I think that other than problems we’ve discussed ad nauseum with the character and the writing and the production methods and schedule that Routh was a bit miscast. From what I’ve heard about “Scott Pilgrim” comedy might actually suit Routh better as he get’s to play off his straight laced persona.

        I think I already laid out my theory that they could decide to walk back how involved Sarah and Shaw were. By only hinting and alluding to the depth of the relationship and having Chuck reach his own conclusions they have clearly left the door open. The date for the day spent in Shaw’s loft was the same day Final Exam aired, so I could see them having Sarah say she was in a state over Chuck’s red test and her part in making Chuck choose to be a spy so they spent the day talking, helping Sarah come to terms with it, and then deciding she’d move on and go to DC with Shaw, but it was too soon for anything else.

        Epic I’m fine with. It’s “game changing” that makes me nervous.

      • alladinsgenie4u says:

        @Ernie – the scene in 3×17 where Casey is interrogating Sarah about her time with Shaw – am I wrong in assuming that the Hoff building and Shaw’s penthouse were in D.C and S/S spent the day there (in D.C) before the events of Final Exam. I always thought about their day spent as events before the stakeout. And I believe that though Final Exam aired on 22 March, events in the episode encompassed a couple of days at most.I have deluded myself into thinking that the day spent at the loft was before the stakeout – am I wrong in thinking like that.

      • JC says:

        If you go by the time line. The couple massages, Tiffany earrings, etc happened in between the end of Tic Tac and and the beginning of Final Exam while they were in DC. The off the grid day at his loft happened after Final Exam in LA. So she was intimate with Shaw after he ordered Chuck’s Red Test.

      • Merve says:

        @Ernie: Routh is a great comic actor. He was one of the only good things about Zack and Miri, and he was pretty funny on Chuck when they let him be funny. As for the rest of his acting skills, I’m not so sure; I’m kind of on the fence. But I will say this: he’s much better at selling the bad-guy-pretending-to-be-good persona than Scott Holroyd.

        @alladinsgenie4u: I’m pretty sure that the Hoth Building and Shaw’s penthouse are in the Los Angeles area. I don’t think that Chuck and Sarah could go to D.C. and back in one night in order to infiltrate it.

        @everyone: Shaw and Sarah slept together. Deal with it.

      • Ernie Davis says:

        Merve, I’m fine with it. Sarah Walker is their character and they can make her as flakey as they want. But when they retcon it to say they never did get intimate don’t say I didn’t warn you. 😉

        I’m not saying they will or should, but this is classic Schwedak. They left the door open for one outcome all the while pointing us ambiguously, through Chuck, to reach another conclusion.

      • JC says:

        @Merve

        I don’t care that she slept with Shaw. But her sleeping with him after the events of Final Exam make her look bad.

      • jason says:

        Sarah more than likely slept with Shaw after 3.7, if he didn’t get his game face on that night he probably was incapable and never did, kama sutra books and all (did I spell that anywhere close to right).

        All indications are Sarah and Shaw repeated the action from 3.7 many many many times, including after 3.8, 3.9, 3.10 and 3.11 – he was her boyfriend, and they were pondering moving in together. Action after 3.11 was no more miserable to me than after 3.7 or any other time in all honesty – but it was not a scar on her character, she was with Shaw, he was her boyfriend, for in tv time a long time, almost 10% of all of the series chuck at that point.

        Also, Sarah was legitimately as near heart broken acting in 3.12 when the all-american hero Shaw was sacrificing his life to bring down the ring as any time in the show including for chuck or bryce, quite moving and touching really the bond between sarah and shaw.

        Unfortunately, Shaw had greater things to do, and essentially gave Sarah back to Chuck in the castle scene in 3.12, with his dramatic – ‘take good care of her chuck’ – the look in his eyes as he delivered those words – need I say it – awesome.

        Sarah settled for her second choice, boring old chuck – who was always there for the taking whenever she wanted after she got her passionate fling out of the way.

        I guess that is that the type of TV some enjoy watching or creating / writing for that matter? It was not for me, and any retcon possible to try and blot the misery arc out would be much appreciated, I think it will take more than a tank this time?

      • atcdave says:

        I care very much that Sarah was made out to be a tramp. I detest that part of the show and the season. At this point, I have no doubt their intention was to make her trashy. It is a fundamental values difference. I’m not sure how much is the age difference versus a midwestern values thing; maybe a little of both. But that is the basis of my being POed. I hope it does get retconned, they did leave the door open by not saying exactly what happened. We all can read between the lines, but I still hope that at some point they spell it out and explain it away (“well Daniel sure wanted to get in my pants but he never did…”).
        I don’t care how cheesy it is. They’ve done cheesy before as plot contrivance, I’d like to see it done once to make me less POed!

      • Joseph (can't be Joe) says:

        They didn’t do the Sarah character any favors in S3. Actually in my opinion they did irreparable damage to Sarah (BTW, I have no illusiuons that she was no saint) for the sake of whatever story they were trying to tell.

      • Merve says:

        @Ernie: I hope that they don’t retcon it. The show went there and has to deal with the consequences. When the show stops being the show and starts being a platform for communicating with and/or apologizing to fans, that’s when things start going downhill.

      • atcdave says:

        Yeah I know Joseph. I never expected her to be a virgin. But the very fast rebound sleaze story is revolting to me. The professional whoring she has sometimes done is much less offensive (probably because it lacks the emotional element). Add to that the inappropriate professional situation and it just feels wrong on every level.

      • Ernie Davis says:

        Merve, as you’ve astutely pointed out on several occasions things we see as problems unique to S3 were there in S1 and S2. We were just having so much fun we didn’t care.

        As some have pointed out TPTB are very good at not dealing with the consequences of where they decided to take the show. But I’ll give you a very specific parallel.

        Late in S2 when they apparently decided they wanted to make Jill a sympathetic victim and Bryce into someone who had always been a true friend looking out for Chuck it suddenly turns out that Bryce DIDN’T steal Jill and they never slept together. It was all just one big misunderstanding that neither Bryce or Jill ever felt compelled to clear up when Bryce was trying to explain he really was Chuck’s friend and Jill wanted to start dating Chuck again.

        To me that was a far bigger leap than Sham never quite got off the ground.

        And just to be clear, I’m not saying they will or should do it as an apology to the fans. If they do it they’ll probably do it for the same reason they always do. To make Chuck look like an ass and to inject some angst. When Chuck and Sarah are together, so far, the pattern is that Sarah is perfect all of the sudden and Chuck is the emotionally unavailable one keeping secrets. This is to show Chuck’s struggles. When Chuck and Sarah were apart Sarah was a basket case. This was to keep them apart. This is the dreaded Sarah as a plot device meme. So, now that Chuck and Sarah are together, like a normal couple both should have to make adjustments and admit they are wrong on occasion. We got a very little bit of this in Role Models and Tooth. But what is the big thing we saw both of them struggling with, and when was the only time Sarah was on the defensive. Living Dead, when Sarah had to admit certain lies to Chuck. Sham is the big thing making Sarah less than perfect in the new relationship Sarah mode. When they want to show how Chuck is still struggling with trust and lies, this would be totally in their MO to make it all Chuck jumping to conclusions and then having to apologize.

      • ChuckNewbie8 says:

        head, meet wall.

      • Ernie Davis says:

        Faith this is my revenge for getting me hooked on Legend of the Seeker just in time to see it canceled. 😉

      • Merve says:

        @Ernie: Sorry, I didn’t see this comment until now. I have A LOT of issues with how Bryce was handled, and it’s no secret that the Jill arc is probably my second least favourite arc of the series. I don’t want to get into specifics here, though. My main issue with Bryce is that his motivations and the nature of his relationships are never made clear. Because of that, it’s easy to believe almost anything about him, and “retcons” of his actions don’t feel like retcons. (Well, except for that one conversation with Chuck in “Ring,” which also messed with Stephen’s character *grumble grumble*)

        On the other hand, Shaw and Sarah are much more fully-formed characters than Bryce. Retconning their actions is less believable to me.

    • joe says:

      Welcome, Frea. Don’t know if you’ve noticed, but people here have been singing your praises for a while. I’m discovering first hand that it’s deserved, btw.

      [Joe pats himself on the back again for attracting great writers to the site! 😉 ]

      The Awesome scene (Gong!) would have done one thing for me. It would have helped to keep him awesome. Devon panicked quite a bit this season, and despite coming to Chuck’s rescue with Morgan needed to keep grounded.

      The good news is that his statue in Costa Gravos tells me “teh awesome” lives on.

      • Frea O says:

        As is only right and proper, Joe. 😛 (Actually, I’m intensely flattered and insanely humbled by all the attention Fates gets over here. Seriously, y’all make me blush)

        Agree with you about the gong. Making a joke out of his panic would have been better than severely reducing the level of Awesome like they did. But hey, statue! I’m so excited about the statue!

        Also, I want a mini-sized one for my desk. We should get on NBC’s merchandising department about that, right?

  9. Joseph (can't be Joe) says:

    Actually the relationship with Shaw is only one of the the issues. The giving up on Chuck. The manipulating of Chuck. The giving very of personal information to someone (idiot creep, ready to pounce on distraught women) you just met. The not standing up for Chuck. The not standing up for herself. Sarah was not a likeable character or a character I had any sympathy for from 3.07 to 3.13. Somewhere in there in order to make 3.13 a better payoff, Sarah should have also starting chasing after Chuck.

    The kicker for me will always be the name reveal. That’s where the Sarah character I thought I knew from the previous 2 seasons was replaced by someone else. If your going to retcon something, retcon that. But they can’t, at least not properly. Which to I say it can’t be repaired.

    TPTB played fast and loose with what should have bee a very intimate moment between Chuck, Sarah and yes, most importantly the fans (read “me”, for the lawyers), and reduced it to essentially a non-event. I’m sorry, spy wills are an attempt to fix it, but don’t even come close.

    • Joseph (can't be Joe) says:

      Again with posting a reply in the wrong location. I wish I could delete and repost. Sorry.

    • atcdave says:

      I think to me the name reveal was so offensive because Sarah acted like no one cared or payed attention to her; poor Sarah has no friends. When any viewing of S1 and S2 shows that to be absurd, Chuck would treasure such personal details and already knows things like how she likes her burger. Sarah was VERY poorly served by S3. Every viewer poll I’ve seen makes her the most popular character on the show (by a wide margin), so reducing her to a plot device is foolish in the extreme.

    • Crumby says:

      The problem with the name reveal is again the lack of resolution. What did she tell her name to Shaw for?

      They dropped the “I don’t who I am anymore” stuff. And they didn’t use the name reveal to contrast her relationship with Chuck, who don’t know many personal information but knows her, and Shaw, who has read her file and knows her name. All we got is “It’s different”.

  10. Crumby says:

    Deleted scene from the Living Dead.

    http://safe.tumblr.com/safe/video/1028680536/500

    It shows that Sarah did ask questions about Chuck’s condition, but we also got a huge lie from Chuck.

    • alladinsgenie4u says:

      I am just glad this scene didn’t make it in the end. It really magnifies Chuck’s jerkiness in that episode by leaps and bounds.

      I cant understand why TPTB went to such huge lengths to make the characters we love dearly, so unlikable.

      • Crumby says:

        I agree. I liked the Sarah is worried part but Chuck’s lie in there is awful. Why would they even write something like this?

      • alladinsgenie4u says:

        You know, what makes this lie more awful – just a few scenes back in that episode – we had Sarah telling Chuck that he shouldn’t keep on lying to the people he loved and that included her. I was able to rationalize his not telling her at the end of 3×16 – he came in intending to tell her but she came up with that ILY and a future with him speech and he just couldn’t do it.
        But this time around (deleted scene), she was asking him plainly and he told a barefaced lie. If TPTB were going for a scenario wherein Chuck’s lies to Sarah would have had a huge impact in the finale- then that didn’t happen (Shaw revealing Chuck’s condition publicly was just used later as a taunting device – to me that scene between Sarah and Shaw where he called her by her real name- it felt like Shaw was taunting her that what if Chuck didn’t reveal his condition to you – you didn’t tell him your real name either.

        Anyways, I went slightly off tangent – what I was getting at was that, characters (mainly Chuck and Sarah)acted foolishly and jerkily – but they were never called out for their actions – in other words no consequences were faced by them.
        I hope this keeping secrets and lying part is dealt in season 4 in a more adult fashion – I wont mind a fight between C/S on this part – it will help clear up their issues once and for all.

        Thoughts?

      • jason says:

        just a missed opportunity thought – I thought all the chuck lies were going to be tied into papa’s death, all it would have taken is a line from ellie to chuck – I caused dad’s death by luring him back here, chuck’s answer, no I caused it by lying to you, I am never going to lie to anyone I love again …. instead we got the ellie chuck conversation, which essentially was setting up a whole new season of lies – strange – maybe they have something epic in mind for season 4 as to what to do with the dirty little liars plot they seem to love, who knows?

      • atcdave says:

        Yeah, the lying is among my big concerns for S4. It was my biggest beef with the back six of S3. It makes Chuck unlikeable, which sort of kills the show.

      • joe says:

        @Genie – I see what you mean, but in an odd sort of way what I like about the clip are the very things that are bothering you. I really like the idea that Sarah is very worried. In the canon I always had the feeling that she seemed to be glossing over the seriousness of Chuck’s condition, right up until she knocks on Dr. Dreyfus’ door.

        And although I recognize the gravity of what he’s doing, I’ve never been quite so bothered by Chuck’s lies as the overwhelming majority here. Okay, I’m bothered, but not quite so much. From my POV, Chuck is being over-protective and cautious, just as he should be. And Sarah has been more than a little withholding herself, as you point out so well. They both act the way they do with good reason.

        And haven’t they both paid a big price? Chuck certainly recognizes the pain his lies – withholding of the truth, really – have cost both Sarah and Ellie, and thinks it may have cost Stephen his life. Sarah realizes the pain she caused Chuck with that name reveal, if only because Shaw taunts her with it. Actually, she saw it back when it happened, in The Fake Name, right?

        We’re dying to see them come to terms with these things, and truth is, we’re still waiting for them to address the Mauser incident, too.

        Thing is, they really have, a little at a time in many small ways; that’s why they’re together. We’re the ones struggling to understand, I think, because the little things are harder to see. It wasn’t Chuck doing the grand gesture of saving Sarah’s boyfriend from an exploding building that changed her mind. It was Chuck finding the personal conviction to twitch his finger just enough to shoot the man threatening her when he had to; a little thing.

        Ack! All that was to say that for me it seems their actions have had plenty of consequences.

      • Crumby says:

        Withholding information and lying is different.

        But look at his words: “The Truth is”, “it doesn’t mean there’s anything wrong with the Intersect”, “Trust me. I’ve never felt better.” I mean, come on!

        And what is he waiting for at that point? Going crazy? Dropping dead? Not being able to defend his partners on missions?

      • jason says:

        that deleted scene was cringe worthy right up there with some of the stuff in 3.7/3.8/3.11 & 3.12 – I mean the sarah shaw stuff I at least can tell you what they are trying to do, this deleted scene & the lying in general from chuck, what really are they trying to do? I keep recalling chuck telling sarah – just this one thing and I will never lie to you, to which she essentially blew him off – so now is he just going to lie to her forever about everything???????

      • Josh says:

        It’s just the angst setup for Season 4. They need something to help yo yo Chuck/Sarah, it’s not “creatively edgy” to just let them be. S3 had the LIs S4 will have the lies and the how “real” their relationship is.

      • Ernie Davis says:

        I see both sides. I see that Chuck looks a little worse by keeping too much from Sarah, even when asked. But, Chuck’s reasons are a little more clear, Sarah IS kind of freaking out about the thought of losing Chuck, and since his dad is working on the cure a little re-assurance isn’t that bad. Besides, at this point he isn’t suffering crippling flashes and as far as he knows there is a potential problem that is likely to happen eventually if dad doesn’t manage the cure, not an ongoing problem at present.

        Aside from that I’m just pretty psyched about having the DVD with the gag reel and the deleted scenes next week. It means I get to write one more piece on the tone of the show and break out my tired symphony analogy one more time. 😉

      • jason says:

        josh, not saying you are wrong at all, but if we get 13 episodes of chuck delivering bold face lies coupled with the words trust me and I would never lie to you – even the most loyal fans will cringe and start to slowly slink away from the tv set. I just can’t imagine the show runners are that out of touch?

      • Ernie Davis says:

        Jason, I agree with that sentiment. The little angsty twist of the knife at the end was the part that bothered me, not that Chuck felt the need to keep some things secret, although they are in danger of making that the new romantic angst.

      • Crumby says:

        Ernie at that point Papa B hasn’t told Chuck he knows something’s wrong with the Intersect yet, and even less about the cure.

        But yes, we can understand he doesn’t want to worry Sarah even more than she already is.

        It does make worse how she learned about it though.

      • Ernie Davis says:

        Ah yes Crumby, you are right, but that then re-inforces my point. The doctor expressed concerns that the intersect could eventually cause him problems, not a certainty that it would. Remember the doc’s answer to Chuck asking if he was going to be OK. “It’s a new science, time will tell”. So Sarah asking him point blank if there were problems with the intersect means he probably should share the doctor’s concerns about potential problems, but Sarah is kind of freaking out at the thought of losing him.

      • jason says:

        by the way, for those who defend chuck saying sarah lies too, or those who defend sarah the office you know what with chuck’s propensity to go after a comely burnette at the drop of a hat, the same writing team that made us love them torpedoes them in season 3, both of them, I can just hope the new writing team and a new attitude from TPTB chooses to make them lovable and loving (in a 100% honorable way)toward each other again – no matter how bad it gets, TPTB cannot torpedo the chemistry, but mid season 3, that was all the show had left

      • Crumby says:

        I agree Ernie.

        But you could also argue that part of Sarah freaking out is that she doesn’t know anything and Chuck is hiding something from her.

        Sarah isn’t weak and if he had told her the truth she wouldn’t have freak out. She would have support him and do everything she could to make sure he’s ok.

      • Ernie Davis says:

        Crumby, I see your point, but remember, on the show timeline Sarah just started opening up to Chuck a little over a month ago and moved in a few weeks ago. Sarah expressing feelings openly to Chuck is a bit new for both. Their history is one of hiding things from each other to protect each other. So maybe they’re both on a learning curve.

      • Crumby says:

        Yep you’re right. I just hope they’ll be careful about this in S4.

    • Joseph (can't be Joe) says:

      Jeff coming out of the washroom. MY EYES, OH GOD MY EYES.

      I always thought Shaw had his eye of Jeff, I guess now we know.

    • herder says:

      This has links to all the deleted scenes (look to the right of the clip) and the gag reel for season three. The Jeff scene is particularly disturbing, but there is also a nice Morgan/Sarah scene from the tooth that got cut too.

      • alladinsgenie4u says:

        That scene from Tooth was really good. Sarah had gone back to “agent-mode” and it took Morgan to make her see the truth. But I am kind of glad it didn’t show up in the final cut – Sarah arriving at the doctor’s house after presumably working things out on her own – sits well with me.

    • alladinsgenie4u says:

      Thanks a ton for the link. Really appreciate it.

    • joe says:

      Really good stuff! Thank you, ez.
      I really like the idea of Sarah saying at that point “If I thought it was the right thing to do, I’d move heaven and earth to (help Chuck save Devon).”

      • alladinsgenie4u says:

        I also liked this scene very much – it was the Sarah we all love. Sadly such scenes just went about scarce after 3.06 and we instead got scenes of Sarah moving heaven and earth to get away from Chuck. Ironic wouldn’t you say?

      • Ernie Davis says:

        I think you guys are missing something about that scene. Sarah puts spy life over family, and tells Chuck it’s the right thing to do.

        Later, when Chuck does do something, and counts on his team, they don’t show.

    • Merve says:

      The ones from “Pink Slip,” “First Class,” “Final Exam,” and “Other Guy” should have been left in. Seriously, they cut entire subplots out of “First Class” and “Final Exam.” Not cool. The last scene cut from “First Class” actually shows that Sarah has a change in opinion with regards to Shaw. Devon meditating in the “Final Exam” scenes wasn’t funny, but at least it made his actions in “American Hero” clearer. Also, the scene from “Tic Tac” where Morgan gave Devon the photo of Ellie as a kid should have been left in.

      I’m on the fence about the scenes from “Operation Awesome” and “Honeymooners.” I don’t think that they added much, but they would have been fine if left in.

      I’m glad that the scenes from “Beard,” “American Hero,” and “Tooth,” as well as the second one from “Tic Tac,” got cut. They weren’t good. Plus, the one in “Tooth” made it seem as if Sarah confessed her love only because Morgan told her to, and I prefer the version of events where she came to that realization by herself.

      • Joseph (can't be Joe) says:

        It’s funny, but the scene with Casey telling Sarah to use her charms on Shaw was one of the ways one of the ways I could see retconing some redemption into the Sarah character of S3.
        – Shaw didn’t matter (at all) (no one believed it anyway)
        – the name reveal could be a lie (this truly needs to be fixed)
        – the un-Sarah like behavior might make sense.

        Just have her telling someone, doesn’t even have to be Chuck, that she was playing Shaw.

      • atcdave says:

        I agree Joseph, that is a “needed” retcon.

    • JC says:

      So no scenes of Hannah looking not so innocent? Also the scene of Casey telling Sarah to use her female charms on Shaw was interesting. Then that scene from Other Guy makes the whole S/S even harder to figure out.

      • alladinsgenie4u says:

        Yeah, none of that. No Hack scenes at all.

        The Casey/Sarah convo about playing Shaw as a mark would have worked if Shaw was a double agent from the start (I believe it was that intention first).

        Also the deleted scene from First Class where she comes back after having a talk with Shaw(in which he revels about his wife) and doesn’t tell Casey about it – would have gelled as it set up both Casey and Chuck’s ignorance about Eve Shaw.

        As for the scene from 3×13 – Shaw had already turned bad – he was just playing Sarah as a mark. Problem was – Sarah was so compromised and trusting that she couldn’t see through his BS. And even if she thought that Shaw was making a presumption about them being together – she didn’t have the guts to say anything about the situation between her and Chuck. So I am just glad that scene was left out.

        IMHO,it sort of clashed with an earlier scene in the Castle – at the briefing about the Chuck’s rescue at the warehouse mission – he told her that they could still be a team – implying that they could work together as professionals.

      • JC says:

        Its too bad I was really looking forward to those Hannah scenes. I wonder what people who were visiting the set saw that made her look bad.

        As for the Sham, well without rehashing things once again. It was clearly written to be not that serious in the front thirteen and changed into something else once the back six happened. But whatever, I’m just glad we didn’t have another Sarah looking like a wimp scene.

  11. Buy More Associate says:

    Long time reader, first time poster, to paraphrase talk radio.

    A few thoughts on the deleted scenes:

    #1) The material dropped from FIRST CLASS vindicates what Liz James has written (http://bit.ly/abdapu) about what TPTB were doing with Shaw and Sarah. We were supposed to understand that Sarah, who has lost Chuck, changed her opinion of Shaw after learning about his loss of his wife. Liz saw that intent without the deleted scenes. I sure didn’t. I barely see it now WITH the deleted scenes.

    B) Both Liz and Ernie Davis have talked about how there might be a lot of rewriting that went on in MASK and FAKE NAME. Liz especially has stressed the rewrites of FAKE NAME: the episode name changed, the assassin’s name changed and the casting sheet originally called for an actor who looked like Zac Levi because Chuck was supposed to impersonate the assassin in front people who knew him. Since there are no deleted scenes from either episode, that is probably an indication that they simply had to go with what was filmed because the rewrites kept coming right until it was time to shoot. It would explain why both episodes are so ragged. They could barely make a 43-minute show with what they shot. There was nothing to cut, which is rare in TV. There is almost always something left out.

    C) The most intriguing deleted scene is the Sarah-Morgan talk from TOOTH. Sarah is drinking alone and feels powerless when Morgan arrives, which is something of a callback to NACHO SAMPLER and Chuck feeling the same way. Also, Morgan became Sarah’s Ellie. In AMERICAN HERO, Ellie urged Chuck not to give up on Sarah. Here is Morgan urging Sarah not to give up on Chuck.

    Most of all, though, that scene shows how the writers clearly weren’t communicating with each other. How could they have filmed this scene knowing that, early in the very next episode (LIVING DEAD), a scene is built around the fact that Morgan and Sarah never talk? The script for LIVING DEAD was already written when they shot the Sarah-Morgan talk for TOOTH. Must have been a harried writer’s room. There’s one writer creating a deep conversation between two characters while the writer of the next very episode is creating a scene based on the claim that they never talk.

    Thanks for letting me post.

    • Merve says:

      If anything, cutting scenes with inconsistencies shows that the writers and editors are doing their job properly.

      • Buy More Associate says:

        @merve-
        A show with a budget crunch, as Chuck had in Season 3, needs TPTB doing their job BEFORE filming. Cutting an inconsistent scene AFTER it is printed is money and time and talent wasted. The story editor (admittedly, a sometimes glorifed title ginned up to add a writer to the staff) is supposed to catch that stuff BEFORE it gets into the final script. Do you have any idea how much time goes into blocking, rehersing and then shooting a scene. It’s costly to make cuts AFTER.

      • Merve says:

        Sure, that’s how things would work in an ideal world. But inconsistent scenes get cut from every season of every show. Just take a look at the ones cut from the first two seasons of Chuck. Or take a look at the deleted scenes from any other television show, for that matter.

    • treecrab says:

      Er…I think his point was that the two different scenes should have never been written in the first place.

    • Ernie Davis says:

      I didn’t see any of the scenes as wildly inconsistent. Even calling Morgan’s talk with Sarah about Chuck as inconsistent with Sarah saying to Morgan “we never talk” only really works if you treat the second line as an absolute statement of fact as opposed to Sarah putting Morgan on the defensive.

      The thing is we can guess as to why scenes are dropped or redone or re-written, or if they’re re-written, but unless someone on the show out and out tells us, we’re guessing. Not that there is anything wrong with some fun speculation. Like the initial Morgan and Chuck discussion duplicating much of the best friend firing in Beard it could have been anything from time and needing to combine scenes to feeling as if the show was switching scenes too much and felt jumpy. I don’t doubt there were budget and time issues involved in some of the production decisions, but much as we wish it I don’t think they’re getting back to the kind of budget and time they had in season 2.

      And speaking of season 2, go back and watch those deleted scenes, I think you’ll find some of the same issues.

      • Buy More Associate says:

        @ernie davis-
        With all due respect, you’re incorrect. The deleted scenes in Season 2 were mostly time cuts. Virtually all of them could have been added back to the show without hurting the narrative.

        The ones that don’t fit into the narrative were clearly writers rethinking action in the same episode (how Chuck and Sarah are handled in BREAK-UP, how Sarah and Jill first meet in E6). The only real example of that in the Season 3 deleted scenes is from AMERICAN HERO, when they compress the “Sarah’s not coming” moment to one bit at the train station rather than having Chuck say goodbye in the courtyard and then return to the courtyard defeated.

        The cut scene from TOOTH was simply inconsistent with a key scene from the very next episode. Viewers could NEVER have accepted Sarah frightening, meanacing and bullying Morgan and saying “we never talk” in LIVING DEAD after having just watched the tender scene of the two of them together in TOOTH. In TV time, those scenes are less than 30 minutes apart.

        It was cut because it would have destroyed a key scene in the tease of the next episode. That kind of continuity error should not happen with a show on such a tight budget. You simply can’t afford that kind of waste. It should have been caught and killed BEFORE it was filmed.

      • Ernie Davis says:

        Well I disagree with the notion that sharing a moment with Morgan limits Sarah’s ability to be menacing. Sarah is versatile. But I see your point and I tend to agree the scene didn’t quite seem to fit.

        As for some of the season 2 cut scenes I’d disagree they were all time cuts. Chuck and Sarah sharing pizza after the attempt at delivering The Montgomery puts a VERY different spin on the rest of Breakup. That scene makes Chuck and Sarah’s relationship much more real and open and makes Chuck’s fear of having Bryce back in Sarah’s life a bit more of a stretch. Like many of the season 3 cuts I don’t see this as a change in direction or an inconsistency so much as a decision of how far to take something.

        Sarah batting away the tossed bouquet plays the reception as a lot more angsty, and is not consistent with her decision to stay and commit to Chuck.

        You can also look at the deleted scene from Suburbs and see a much harsher argument between Chuck and Sarah that again, isn’t really so much a change in direction as degree.

        In any case it’s fun to hear what others think. It’s usually going to be a highly individual reaction, as was season 3, and as the range of comments here show.

      • atcdave says:

        It seems to me there are often changes made in the editing room that effect Mood and continuity quite a bit. I’m not sure how much of that intentional vs. sloppy; but clearly a large writing staff increases the difficulties in maintaining continuity. Some of the S2 deleted scenes, the pizza dinner from Break-Up really stands out, were clearly either/or shots with scenes that made it in. The pizza dinner would have had the effect of lowering the angst from the rest of the episode, which we know these writers almost never do. I think the bouquet toss scene was cut because it was a joke that fell flat (that is, it was meant to be funny, but it made Sarah look like a bit of a jerk at a point in the episode where she’s supposed to have already chosen Chuck and the “normal” life).
        But for all that I think continuity was extremely poor in S3. The cut scenes don’t seem to really help with the mood, maybe fill in a few details we mainly don’t want to know. I’m glad they cut the Morgan/Sarah talk, it plays much better thinking she figured it out for herself.

      • Buy More Associate says:

        @ernie davis–
        The pizza scene in BREAK-UP is the scene I was referring to as well. It was cut for an internal decision about where they were driving the action in that specific episode. Ditto the bouquet batting scene from RING. That scene also has a physical problem: Strahovski is literally reaching awkwardly to bat it away. It wasn’t actually coming at her. So that scene was cut for story reasons and production reasons. It didn’t play right with the rest of RING.

        By contrast, we come come back to the cut scene from TOOTH. In context, it could have run. It certainly would have lessened the impact of Sarah’s plea to the doctor, but it also would have strengthened her, too, because you never saw Sarah drinking alone before. And that’s what she’s doing as Morgan arrives.

        But to run that scene and then, just minutes later in TV time, at the beginning of LIVING DEAD, to have her menacing Morgan emotionally and (almost) physically threatening him and claiming that they never talk? It would have been a whip-your-head moment. This board would have been in an uproar over the backward step Sarah suddenly took in what would have been seen as the burgeoning Sarah-Morgan relationship.

        And, again, my overarching point is not that the scene was WRITTEN. But that it got all the way to FILMING. On a show with such a brutally tight budget, it should have been caught in the rewrite stage, not in the editing room.

  12. sd says:

    IMHO, I think a lot of the deleted scenes prove how “all over the map” the writers were with the direction of the season. As Casey would say…they went “off mission”

    To have a scene where Sarah and Casey talk about Sarah investigating Shaw’s intentions…I don’t know…it gave me the impression that at the start they planned to make him a bad guy and changed course…much to the chagrin of the fan base.

  13. Ernie Davis says:

    The overall impression I got from the deleted scenes was that they were going the same direction, only more so. We knew that Shaw was creating tension between Chuck and the team, but the deleted scene in First Class shows how completely Sarah and Casey threw him under the bus. That and the scene from Operation Awesome where Sarah tells Chuck to trust her, turning Devon into a double agent is for the best (he doesn’t trust her from the look on his face) and you can see the direction of breaking the trust and friendship that Chuck and Sarah still had taken further. It almost makes sense now that Chuck brushes Sarah’s offer to help at the end of Nacho Sampler off and goes to drink alone. Their relationship has become purely professional by that time given the deleted scenes.

    As for Sarah and Casey being suspicious of Shaw, we’d already seen that in First Class, this just deepened it a bit, and was probably meant to add some ambiguity to what Sarah was doing with Shaw. But it also highlighted how Sarah sided with Shaw at the end of First Class, which sort of helps establish the Sham a little better.

    Morgan’s scene with Sarah was, I think, supposed to establish Sarah’s ILY moment, having Morgan tell her to take a leap of faith, but also pulls Sarah back a bit in the relationship if she’s still trying to act unemotionally when it comes to Chuck, so it didn’t really fit.

    But the one that really got me, the unforgivable one was on the gag reel. When Shaw interferes with Chuck and Sarah that’s one thing, but to come between Jeffster, that is over the line.

    • Buy More Associate says:

      @erniedavis-
      I think the deleted scene from AWESOME also was meant to show that Sarah and Shaw’s spy methods were not that different. Which is why Sarah’s almost frenzied fears and chaotic attempts to protect Chuck in FIRST CLASS are odd. If they were trying to set up Sarah and Shaw first as professional colleagues, then wary friends, then lovers, her actions in First Class should have been less insane. But, of course, in FIRST CLASS, they were less focused on Sarah-as-spy and more as Sarah-still-loved-Chuck. The two arcs basically cancelled each other out and made the story a mess.

      That’s why Season 3 is, frankly, so regrettable. They used Sarah as a plot device rather than a character. As I read in a post here from Liz James earlier this year, she called the season “a poor story badly told.”

      The poor story (the Shaw arc) is self-evident. The badly told part becomes clearer especially as you watch what they do with the Sarah character: She’s on board with Shaw professionally in e4, but then suspicious of him in e5 when his actions with Chuck are actually less dangerous in e5 than they were with Devon in e4.

      It makes the viewers’ heads explode. It’s what happenes when a poor story and bad storytelling collide.

      • Ernie Davis says:

        Actually I think Sarah’s actions are perfectly consistent with her being in love with Chuck, but not Devon. Remember, Devon is Awesome and (in Sarah’s words) would have made an awesome spy. We know of course that it isn’t true, but at the time Sarah is less worried about Devon being used as a mole than she later is about Chuck on a solo mission that puts him in direct confrontation with trained Ring operatives. So I don’t agree with your take that Devon was in more danger than Chuck. Also, it’s not so much Shaw’s methods that Sarah objects too, it’s using Chuck as a trained operative, which she still doesn’t consider him to be, that Sarah objects to.

        I tend to agree with you that Sarah seemed all over the place at times. And I’m not going to argue too hard that she was treated as a plot device. There’s a valid argument that she always was. Still, I think the biggest problem with the Shaw arc comes down to one thing. Why Shaw? Sarah’s actions were never fully explained, either in relation to Chuck or Shaw. We eventually (far too late IMO) got some of the story on Chuck when the red test confirmed she was torn up over her part in making Chuck into something she hated about herself, so not wanting to see Chuck or be around him makes a twisted bit of sense. Sarah tries to run away essentially, then literally. But why turn to Shaw, who exhibits all those things that apparently ruin Chuck to a much greater degree. I know people love to quote Liz’s piece, and it’s a great piece, but the one thing it doesn’t touch on is why Sarah suddenly needs someone in her life and how it needs to be Shaw. I think you can safely say that Sarah is looking to fill the hole left by Chuck. But then the question becomes even tougher. Exactly how does Shaw work as a replacement for Chuck? Why Shaw? What is it that Sarah is looking for and how is it Shaw that gives her that?

      • Merve says:

        @Ernie: Two things:
        1. Is someone else jumping on my “Sarah Walker has always been a problematic character” bandwagon? Hop on; there’s plenty of room. 😀
        2. Why Shaw? He was conveniently close by, he listened to Sarah’s concerns, and he had male genitalia. It’s as simple as that. 😉

      • atcdave says:

        I agree entirely with Ernie on the main problem with Sarah’s role in S3. The central theme seems to be (sorry folks, I’m not real interested in the deeper analysis, if I don’t get it on a casual viewing I think most other viewers won’t get it either) Sarah is convinced Chuck is turning to something she can’t stand (just like herself) so she turns to the person most responsible for ruining him. I know that’s an oversimplification, but I think it is how the main arc plays to the casual viewer, which is why it utterly fails as entertainment. It reduces Sarah to a plot device and makes her unrecognizable from the first two seasons.

        Merve I know you’ve said that’s how Sarah always struck you. But I think most viewers would consider Sarah of the first two seasons as a well written and performed traditional heroic character with a strong emotional attachment to Chuck. I’ve talked to many men and women who love that version of Sarah Walker. But how poorly Sarah was served in the main arc of S3 is the single largest failure of the season. Chuck was also poorly written at times, while ironically, most the other characters were pretty well managed.

      • Kisku says:

        Actually episode 8 (Fake Name) already provided some pretty good insight why Sarah was doing what she was doing and Final Exam just added more depth to it.

        And why Shaw. Well, i think here comes the thing that they simply haven’t established Shaw character in a way they intended. From what Fedak said about Shaw, he was suppose to be this superspy, charming, competent and generally someone to look up to – good guy all around. When Chuck was going to a “dark side” in a way (although they never really sold that part all that well frankly), he was someone Sarah could turn to. But with some unfortunate writing and bad miscasting of BR, we ended up with a character that was unappealing, not to mention stiff and charmless (sometimes even creppy).
        So their intention was that with Chuck changing, Sarah was turing to someone more appealing at the moment. But since on screen Chuck didn’t feel all that changed and Shaw comming of so unappealing, poor Sarah came off looking bad because of that.

      • jason says:

        dave – two nice comments there –

        #1 – the other characters were pretty well served in season 3, I think that is why so many fans are miffed at why fans like you and I were so angry over season 3, if you did not really like sarah or CS that much, season 3 probably was pretty good,

        #2 – the other thing, sarah in my mind was way overwritten – someone said a knight in shining armour in s1/s2 – much like morgan was overwritten in s3 – she fell off her pedestal in S3, which was hard to watch (for some fans, she was what made the show unique in the first place) – I am pretty sure S4 is going to be pretty good for CS, real stuff, not overwritten, I think the chuck vs pinocchio arc will have a pretty limited life span s4, at least as it pertains to CS.

      • Kisku says:

        Also rushed feeling of some episodes this season didn’t help matter one bit.

        One thing i would like to add, while i agree that Sarah was used as plot device sometimes this season, the same can be said about Chuck character, as i can name 4 instances at least of such use. They had little time to tell the story so to speed things up they were using either Chuck or Sarah as such device sometimes.

      • atcdave says:

        Kisku, I do know what TPTB have said the story was supposed to be about; I was just stating part of why I think it fails. Of course I’m on record as saying I don’t believe any reset of the Chuck/Sarah relationship would have been accepted by a significant number of fans anyway. The fact it was badly bungled only made it an even bigger problem than the flawed concept guarantied it would be anyway.

      • Ernie Davis says:

        Merve, I’ve always allowed that there is some merit to your argument, I just don’t go as far as you. I think there is a Sarah journey. It’s to make sure Chuck and Dianne find each other in the end and then to finally give in and make a life with Casey. The only guy she ever worked with who didn’t try to get her in bed. 😉

      • JC says:

        Why Shaw?

        The answer is in American Hero at the end. From the show stand point everything was Chuck’s fault. Sarah doesn’t need to explain anything because she didn’t do anything wrong. Name reveal, Red Test manipulation, over reactions those were all perfectly acceptable things.

        Like in Other Guy when Chuck brings up the Red Test. No apology from Sarah for not believing him, just he’s still her Chuck. Completely ridiculous.

      • herder says:

        As to why Sarah chose Shaw, I think all the answer we were ever going to get was at the end of Mask, she has a type. My guess is that TPTB felt that would be sufficient to explain her actions. The problem is that the Shaw character as shown on screen wasn’t her type (he was stiff, wooden and uncharismatic, not to mention that he didn’t come off as that great a spy) and so the disconnect. My personal reaction after Fake Name was to hope that they would bring back Cole to take her away from these two jerks.

      • atcdave says:

        JC, my reaction is similar, we really need a Sarah apology or retcon at some point. But I think Schwedak has decided to simply move past S3. I can live with it, but there was something special lost after S2, and ignoring S3 won’t bring it back. They have to somehow FIX the damage to get back the enthusiasm I felt before. But for all the specific wrongs between Chuck an Sarah, the biggest problem was the way the two characters gave up on each other. I’m not exactly sure how that can be fixed.

      • Joseph (can't be Joe) says:

        It can’t be totally fixed, and I doubt we will ever get that S1/S2 “specialness” to the relationship back ever again. It’s gone for good. It left the second PLI’s turned into LI’s.

        Some apologies to each other for behaving both like complete *&%$#%$#@!’s would be a start, but don’t hold your breath.

      • Buy More Associate says:

        @ernie davis–
        (And ernie, honest, not calling you out)

        Your “Why Shaw?” question has an easy answer: The writers decided to do it. That is why I referred to Liz James’ comments about a “poor story badly told” as well as her piece on the intended dynamics of Shaw-Sarah relationship itself.

        There is NO actual justification for a Sarah-Shaw relationship other than the fact that TPTB created a bad story and then told it badly, too.

        It’s also why I sort of regret people criticizing Brandon Routh’s acting. What in heaven’s name did anyone expect him to do with the role and the lines he was given? Routh may not be Olivier, but I don’t think Olivier would have done any better with the Shaw role, either.

        @merve–
        Of course Sarah is a problemmatic character. That is what made her a great character. She’s not the stereotypical blonde hottie.

        She IS the everyman/nerd’s prize, but inside she’s a mess. Her problems were well delineated in Seasons 1 and 2 without being addressed. This was a character written as living out a fantasy relationship with a phony boyfriend. Then the Sarah character’s problems are decently addressed in the back six of Season 3 as she tries to grapple with being in a REAL relationship with a REAL boyfriend.

        All the stuff in e1-13? Essentially plot-driven idiocy. Plot driving character is part of the “bad story badly told” meme that ernie and I have been discussing.

      • atcdave says:

        Joseph we’re pretty much on the same page. I really can’t imagine anything recapturing how I felt about this show and these characters through most of S2 especially. But if they would apologize for the grief they caused each other at some point it might help. And I mean a fairly well informed apology, which may be part of the problem. The writers get that we don’t want to see anymore outside love interests; but I don’t think they get that the disconnect with viewers started right from Pink Slip, that’s where the characters gave up on each other. The rest of the main arc simply dug the hole deeper. A good apology needs to start with the giving up on each other after Prague.

      • Ernie Davis says:

        BMA (Buy More Associate) Don’t worry about “calling me out”. Some of the long time posters know I’ve endured far worse. I don’t mind answering questions or hearing other viewpoints, that’s what makes this fun.

        I will have to agree with you that the justification for Sham wasn’t there. As I’ve said I think they relied a little to heavily on Routh being read as Hero and therefore Sarah’s type. But I’m going to add a caveat to my agreement.

        I don’t think it was a bad story badly told, I think it was just a lot closer to the normal TV that I don’t bother to watch anymore than what we were expecting. Most TV shows would never expect to have to explain why the hot blonde who’d been rejected fell for the hunky new guy. And there was the problem for me. Where Chuck had always previously managed to avoid the TV cliches and tripe, or to adopt them with a sense of irony or whimsical mockery, in season 3, especially in Mask and Fake Name, they relied on them. They needed them. So the show that I’d put on a pedestal was just another TV show after all. It’s not. It has recovered a bit, but it was damaged a bit in the process, and like some have said, I may never feel about it the way I felt before.

        So was it bad TV? I don’t think so. It was just TV, but we had learned to expect more from Chuck.

      • atcdave says:

        To me Ernie, the fact Chuck felt like a lot of other TV in S3 DOES make it bad TV. For two seasons the show was something special and different, a breath of fresh air. Then it became the worst sort of TV soap opera. It was especially bad precisely because we had come to expect more. Castle or Psych can not disappoint me as much, my expectations are lower every week.

      • Ernie Davis says:

        Funny thing Dave, as soon as I posted that I started thinking about how you’d reply. And it wasn’t that I don’t understand your POV, it’s just that on this board I’ve often tried to play a more dispassionate roll for the fans that aren’t as heavily invested in certain aspects, and I’ve tried to put the story and the characters into some sort of context for those looking for a different angle or the big picture.

        While I absolutely get what you are saying, there is another part of me trying to explain of tell the other side of the story. I shouldn’t have delivered that other side as a declaration. Like I said, it’s a very individual experience.

      • Merve says:

        @BMA: That’s not really what I meant by “problematic,” but it’s my fault for not elaborating. For me, it’s not an issue of plot driving character as much as it is an issue of Chuck driving character, which I think is a subtle but important distinction; most of what Sarah does, thinks, and feels has something to do with Chuck. That’s separate from the issue of whether Sarah is an enjoyable character or whether her problems are clearly delineated. (For the record, I think that her problems in season 3 were more clearly defined than every before, but were much less adequately addressed than in season 2.)

      • JC says:

        @Dave

        You’re right but I don’t think they can fix it. If they ignore S3, the issues will always be there festering with the fans. But if they bring it up, I can’t see how they smooth things over. The name reveal is completely ruined. Her last name won’t cut it and any retcon would be glaring.

        If anything I hope they address the Red Test, at least Chuck’s. Have her find out how close she came to losing her Chuck. The sad fact is she should have found out during Am Hero during the conversation with Casey. What a wasted opportunity. Maybe if they had her realize she held him to an impossible standard that no human being could live up to. But it needs to be something along those lines.

      • atcdave says:

        Yeah JC you’re exactly right about the choices. If they retcon, they may please some fans but would likely upset others. If they ignore it, the situation is reversed; but possibly less severe to both camps.
        Combine that with the fact I think they are actually proud of their effort, I suspect they will simply ignore S3.
        I’m not sure what the biggest issue that needs addressing would be, but certainly the Red Test is way up the list. I’m most peeved by the Sham; but Hannah, Prague, the “giving up” on each other, and Chuck’s lying are all things I found annoying about S3.
        I’ve said before, only partially kidding, they need to have Chuck wake up from a dream to discover its the morning of his sister’s wedding. I am kidding, but that is where the wheels started to come off.

      • JC says:

        @Dave

        I could handle a retcon that Shaw was a double agent from the beginning. That he had files on Sarah and Chuck that he used to manipulate her. It wouldn’t be perfect but it would lessen the damage to her character.

        Like others have said why Shaw, it’s very valid question. I would really like to know why Shaw after Final Exam. I know what they intended but he came off the polar opposite of her type. The TPTB have to know this or at least I hope they would.

        Another problem is they don’t see or ignore the unintended consquences of what they write. The fact of the mole having a gun and its never mentioned makes me want to slam my head against the wall repeatedly.

        To be honest I don’t know if they’ll address any of it because it clearly didn’t matter to them. They figured they do whatever as long as C/S hooked up in the end and they were dead wrong. I don’t think they have answers to any of these questions.

      • atcdave says:

        I think the biggest problem may be they lost sight of the importance of their customer. They didn’t listen when we tried to tell them we didn’t like where they were heading, and they rammed through a story that was designed to be shocking and “exciting” to the last moment; while ignoring it what we wanted.

        Its like in my job, I am paid to keep airplanes from running into each other. No matter how clever I think I am, if I stop listening to what the pilots are telling me I am asking for trouble. There are checks and balances in the system; if I point two airplanes at each other, or clear someone to the wrong destination; I really need to be listening when the pilots object. At least in my job, pilots are unlikely to do something they know is not in their best interest; and if I listen to their objections we should be able to come up with a plan “B” that keeps everyone safe and happy. As viewers the only choice we have is to watch or not.

        I’m not suggesting they could have avoided all the problems with S3 if they had really thought about entertaining their viewers; but I do think if we’d been happier all along some of the problems would have seemed less objectionable.

      • Buy More Associate says:

        @ernie davis–
        I have read every word of this board and often read that you adjusted your expectations downward at a certain point in Season 3 and began to enjoy the show in some way. I guess I admire your ability to calibrate your expectations that way.

        However, I would suggest that most creative people (and most consumers of the output of creative people) hew to the Louis Armstrong approach. When asked to explain and judge the various types of music that were exploding onto the scene in the 1960s, Armstrong said: “There are only two kinds of music. Good music and bad music.”

        IMHO, and apparently for a vast number of viewers who abandoned the show, Chuck Season 3 was bad television. Or as liz james said, a bad story badly told.

        For me, I would never have watched Season 3 of Chuck beyond PINK SLIP had I not previously invested two years in the show and the characters. If PINK SLIP was a pilot of a new show, I’d have turned it off and never sampled the show again.

      • herder says:

        Think of the irony of the fact that the photo shoot that was done for NBC’s promos was of Chuck and Sarah together yet the story for the season that was being promoted was them apart.

      • Eli says:

        Buy More Associate said: She’s on board with Shaw professionally in e4, but then suspicious of him in e5 when his actions with Chuck are actually less dangerous in e5 than they were with Devon in e4.

        Because she was there in episode 4 and not in episode 5. It was less dangerous for her because she could act if something was wrong. Chuck was going to be alone, kilometers away and she didn’t have any chance to get there if something went wrong.

        And why Shaw? Well, he’s the “transition guy.” He’s uncomplicated, don’t ask for a serious relationship and it’s there just for sex. That’s the job of a transition guy. If somebody wants to know why she confided in him the answer is in “Fake name” when she visits him in his hotel room to apologize and he answers her: “No apology necessary.” She’s surprised because with Chuck it would be necessary (in fact, she’s there because she learnt to care for others’ feelings while she was with Chuck.) He’s there, he’s willing to listen and he’s not going to ask her for any commitment.

        And excuse me, this is just my personal opinion, but Sarah must apologize for “Fake name”? Seriously? If an ex came to me and demanded to know why I did something with another guy that I didn’t do with him I would answer “It’s none of your business, you dumped me.” Chuck dumped Sarah, and her saying her real name to another guy is: a) a sign that she was trying to create a relationship with somebody as she acknowledged she should have done with Chuck and b) maybe a bad step, but not insulting to Chuck since she wasn’t expecting him to be listening. It’s not as if she was rubbing a night of passion with another person in his face, as Chuck actually did the day before, after his night with Hanna.

        And she manipulated Chuck in his red test? Didn’t want Chuck to become a spy? If he wanted to become a spy only to be with her, which means he was willing to kill a human being for something so petty, maybe she isn’t the only one to be blamed. Could she tell him that if he actually killed a man there was no future for them? Yes, of course. But if I have to tell you that what you are about to do is going to destroy the good opinion I have about you and make me hate you forever, then you don’t know me as much as you think you do. And why do you want to be with a person you don’t understand at all?

        What? This is perfectly logic for a woman 🙂

        Anyway, season 3 feels rushed, there is nobody who will say otherwise (not even me, and I liked season 3, mostly) and the deleted scenes wouldn’t mitigate that. I think that if there was going to be a Sarah/Shaw romance, they needed an entire episode more, and that if there wasn’t any romance between them, there’s an extra episode. As it is now, it feels wishy washy, with too much or too less, depending of what you want.

    • joe says:

      Wow – For the nth time, I’m amazed (and gratified!) at the depth of the discussion. It’s hard not to be convinced by all the excellent points.

      I think the most lasting impression I’m going to have of S3, just the first 12 episodes really, was that I was whip-sawed. Was Shaw heroic or evil? Why didn’t Chuck *see* that? What was Sarah thinking? Why don’t I know? Each episode seemed to throw me one way then back against the other wall, and ultimately, it just felt like it went on too long.

      So it’s easy for me to chalk it up to the way the season was extended, budgets, the rapid shooting schedule… We know the list. With all due respect to those who feel that should be well within the abilities of the show-runners to handle, I can’t imagine how such things are handled without creating the usual hum-drum stuff we usually get on tv. Maybe it is, and I just lack imagination.

      Then there was the stuff I didn’t get. Somehow, I was supposed to see Chuck was becoming a cold-killer, and I was supposed to see that Sarah was something less than perfect. Man, that was hard to do. I don’t want to see those characters that way, even a little, it seems. It didn’t work, and I think I’m glad.

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