Ok fans, the “vacay” is over and Costa Gravas is now but a memory. Tell us what you thought!
Joe Adds: We have this tiny spoiler from Zap2it on the actress who’s quickly becoming our favorite first daughter, Mekenna Melvin. It looks like Cobra is about to meet his most fearsome foe, THE FATHER!
A while after her first appearance, “Chuck” decided to bring Alex back — and Melvin basically had to audition again. That worked out too, and on Monday she’ll make her fifth appearance on the show as Alex. Her dad might not be quite as proud of her this time around, since she’s become close — possibly a little too close — with Morgan (Joshua Gomez).
Amy Adds: I’m sure we all want to know what bikini you would have picked for Sarah. Well, at least I know what Joe has picked for her! Purple, right buddy?
Joe Sees Amy’s Add, and Raises Her One Bikini: You know it!
Ohhhh – Please don’t forget to go to Reward TV after the show and demonstrate that you are part of the Nerdolution!
amyabn
atcDave
Ernie Davis
Faith
joe
thinkling
Chuck This 
@Amy – Every one of those bikinis was awesome. Although my preference would be for the one which kind of looked like a leopard skin (in color) – did I get that right?. LOL.
Thanks for the thread.Looking forward to reading and participating in the discussion that follows.
My pleasure, Alladin. I wanted to get this up so I could pack up my gear for tomorrow. I usually watch the ep live (write down the commercials), post an initial reaction, then go re-watch. Thank goodness for DVRs!
Heart attack alert: http://sleepsweet.tumblr.com/post/1292842976/drool
Who’s your mama! 😀
Holy cow! Medic! Heart attack! (sigh)
You forgot to add ___________ (flatline) 😀
Get that one out on twitter!
Aye aye captn!
link.
yuiovgf7gv cuogyu7fftif yuogvh vyuigvgc yuiv
Sorry, forgot how to type. 🙂
Vicki Vale, Vicki Vale….Vicki, Vicki (fumble phone – fade to very cold shower).
That link isn’t helping my vow of celibacy! (Just kidding!). Yvonne is not only talented – but lets just say “very blessed” as well with physical beauty.
That was probably the funniest thing I’ve ever read. Good one Fr. Rick!
Chuck asked for it … and Sarah just wanted to make sure he had several to choose from.
Cute scene. I just had to laugh, though … since Sarah has now unpacked her suitcase, wouldn’t she have room for all 3 bikini’s? I know; I know … where’s the fun in that?
Given the size of those bikinis, I think her daily multi-vitamin probably takes more room in the suitcase.
i really liked the white one
That was amazing! I’m still trying to process it all. Loved Chuck and Sarah giving relationship advice. Go Morgan and Alex! Glad Ellie got to see Chuck in action-now if he’ll just tell her the truth. the pacing was great, the fun non-stop! I’m going back to watch it again!
Yeah totally loved the irony of Chuck and Sarah as relationship counselors. And can’t get enough of Morcalex. Gonna be funny next week when the bearded one spills the beans to Casey….
And again and again.
and Again 🙂
Again, FUN “CHUCK.” This season has simply been a pleasure to watch (Yes, including Sarah in her bikinis – just PLEASE, NO CHUCK or even Capt. Awesome in speedos!!).
Totally enjoyed the episode from start to finish. The “fountain scene” (how many important fountain scenes have there been in this series?) between Chuck and Ellie was another great one.
And I’m on board the Alex (McKenna Melvin) bandwagon as well. I heard she will be appearing in 3 episodes. Hopefully it will be more.
And last, but not least, the final scene was to put it bluntly AWESOME. Sarah is becoming the “real girl” that Chuck talked about during “Suburbs” in Season 2.
Let’s keep contacting and supporting the advertisers, promoting the show, buying the “Chuck stuff” (if we can afford it), and letting anyone who will listen how much we LOVE this show.
Can’t wait for next week’s episode – and especially the episode the following week. Keep up the great work everybody – and KEEP ON CHUCKIN’!!!
Hey, fair is fair. If the ladies want to see Zach and Ryan in barely there bathing suits who are we to object.
Speedos are ONLY appropriate for Olympic swimmers – and even THEY don’t really wear the “small ones” anymore. The women can have all the bare “abs” they want from Capt. Awesome and even Chuck for that matter – but NO SPEEDOS. If “CHUCK” was a European produced TV show, then maybe (as I understand that European guys still wear speedos). But this is AMERICA, darn it. NO SPEEDOS ALLOWED!! 😉 😉
Amen!
I have to agree. A well-toned ab here, a peck there … very nice. But some mysteries are better left unrevealed. NO SPEEDOS, please.
I wouldn’t mind some swim trunks being modeled by the men of Chuck.
Wow, um, this episode..was a little..uh.. strange. Some parts had me actually cringing and some had me smiling and cheering.
Loved:
Casey staring downing down the bad guy while wounded, getting up and asking ”Better?”‘ is simply all kinds of Badass. 🙂 I love my Casey, and I loved/and sympathised with him when Sarah/Chuck called him for help and he’s desperate to bless him.
Alex calling him dad (finally, I’ve been longing to hear that from her and the kiss on the cheek was sweet. 🙂
Awesome rather hero worshiping his statue was adorable.
Chuck telling Ellie the truth had me smiling with pleasure and relief that the lying is out of the way.
Sarah telling Chuck she loves him while he’s sleeping, and says that when ever he proposes to her, she would say yes. And his knowing smile at the end? Totally awesome.
Hated:
Poor Casey, I felt his pain when Morgan and Alex had their painfully awkward scene at his apartment.
Morgan/Alex period had me groaning and Big Mike’s comments didn’t make it
better. I was cringing at their kiss at the end. Bleach. 😦
The whole Costa Graves scenes were weird and the standoff scene was also cringe worthy.
So a 6 1/2 grade for me. Next week looks better though, now that we’re hopefully done with the filler.
I’m sort of with you on this one, Chuck talking feelings during missions is getting a bit much, I wanted to take that book and hit him on the side of the head. Having said that I think that there were a bunch of really great little bits, some of which will require repeated viewings to appreciate. The Subway reference was great and an in joke too, Yvonne is still getting her share of comedy bits.
I rewatched a few scenes, yes the bikini show was one of them and I noticed how Goya was grabbing Hortensia’s butt at the end, not sure if that was direction or Armand Assante grabbing a feel but it was funny. For something that I thought would be a big Awesome and Ellie episode Casey really stole the show.
But honestly how can you not like a giant Awesome statue and Awesome slapping his own butt, or Chuck being creeped out by Awesome and Ellie’s enthusiastic making out or Sarah’s confession at the end. This is an example of a happy ending giving the whole episode a good feeling. My guess is that there is a proposal in November sweeps some time between 3.07 and 3.10.
I’m going to defend Chuck on this one. Chuck didn’t interrupt the mission with his talks with Sarah, the mission interrupted his planned weekend of communication with Sarah. As Chuck said himself, there’s always going to be a mission. If they use them as an excuse never to speak about anything important then Sarah might as well be providing Shaw with conjugal visits in his padded cell.
Excellent point.
Sorry there C’s girl – I must still be having a turkey hangover – but I thought that EP set a new Season 4 benchmark!
Good pacing – pretty good punchlines – good action – wonderful bikinis….. hmmmm bikinis.
Chuck and Sarah finally talking about the fact that they have problems trying to talk about things…
I think that perhaps for the first time this season – the story parallels really worked.
AND – the closing scene – where we finally get a peak inside the wonderful world of Sarah Walker – and she talks to Chuck!!!!
I know your subconscious is still working – even if you’re in a coma – so I know that the Intersect heard and understood every word she said!!!! : )
I’d give it a 9.8 because I think they will probably give us a couple episodes that are even better.
Not sure how they have structured their season – but I’d say that was a perfect close to the first 4 as some kind of mini arc.
Excellent episode.
Really liked the intersect “intel” flashes. Didn’t really know how much I missed those.
Way to go Alex, then way to go Morgan (dude you are in sooo much trouble).
Sarah at end – sigh 🙂
Chuck you devious person you.
I missed Chuck’s smile at the end the first time I saw it, still don’t know if he was awake or if it was a subconcious smile. In any event it was a great ending.
Big Mike is a much better relationship counselor than Dr Whatshishead, maybe he has a new role, the voice of reason in the zoo that is the Buy More. Especially liked his comment about love being worth an arm or leg, which considering that Alex’s father is Casey maybe a real risk. I do miss the joke that they used to have with the Buy More tv’s showing something related to the issue that the show is dealing with.
Armand Assante looks like he is having a ball doing the show, he gets to be so over the top, singing, staring at Ellie’s, um, chestal region, grabbing Hortensia’s posterior, tossing off one liners. And Beckman going ballistic (sorry about the pun) about Costa Gravan nukes and Goya shrugging it off. This was an episode where all the small things were done wonderfully.
Agree with all of that. Big Mike was great, and unintentionally freaking Morgan out with the “arm and a leg” line was very funny.
And if my ears weren’t deceiving me – that “voice” during the Morgan/Alex kiss was none other than the late, great Mr. Barry White. ANY show that incorporates a little bit of Barry White into the romance aspect scores an A+!!
I’m still drooling over the possibility of a “CHUCK” CD. I mean, c’mon. They put out TWO soundtracks for Smallville, and that’s a WB property if memory serves. The people behind CHUCK have picked such great songs over the past 3 plus seasons, it would make a GREAT CD – and you know the CHUCK fans would buy it up!
I was kinda partial to Santos and Johnny’s “Sleepwalk” while Sarah modeled her bikini’s….
I’m very happy. That was a blast. I was a huge fan of Armand Assanti’s character last season, and I was not disappointed this time either. He is so outrageous and over the top. The tourist video was a scream, smelling Ellie’s pheromones (OK, weird but funny), and of course unveiling the Awesome statue. All very funny stuff.
I was afraid the faux proposal at the start would be painful to watch; but once again we see this isn’t last season’s Chuck. I thought the scene was funny and well played. Morgan’s breakdown of the action was particularly funny.
I was glad Ellie saw Chuck and Sarah in action together; although they pointedly made Sarah a little underwhelming in that scene. I was disappointed in the way it played out with Ellie in the end. They have really made her unlikeable to me ever since 3.19. The whole “gee I didn’t really know you were so good as a spy, I’m glad you quit” (deliberately bad paraphrase!) really rubs me wrong. Don’t get me wrong, this isn’t a huge issue to me as a Chuck fan; and I’m glad Chuck is no longer a slave to her demands, just wish he didn’t let it pass. At least he broached the “mom” topic.
Morgan and Alex were mostly fun, I loved the Morgan/Casey/Alex scene. And I liked the smooching scene towards the end. But the whole “101 Questions” bit didn’t do so much for me.
I liked the Chuck and Sarah scenes a lot this week (yes, that’s pretty much my default setting). Still didn’t like the “101 Questions” bit (and Chuck wanting to talk feelings on missions is way past old), but I did like that they were talking about these things in a playful and fun way. I was a little disappointed at about the halfway point when we hear Sarah express deep seated reservations about the whole marriage thing (I had hoped after last week her concerns were all focused on kids and she was actually OK with marriage). Speaking as an old married guy, her concerns were stupid. I loved the Chuck and Sarah as marriage councilors bit; even if it was predictable, it was very funny. I know I had predicted an actual engagement this week, and while I am disappointed to be wrong, I still think it will be coming very soon; maybe next week. They certainly left it wide open, Sarah admitting she would say yes, and Chuck hearing her. It can’t be too far off now, and I would seriously think they would want to do it before the return of MEB. I didn’t think they would do it in a Casey centric episode, but right now I think there’s a good chance that’s exactly when it will happen.
Tonight, Dave’s a happy boy. I think I’ll have to watch this one again after the game.
I’m with ya, Dave, in the “Happy Boy” dept. I still think the engagement isn’t going to happen until AFTER Sarah and “Mama B” have met – and that seems to be 2 episodes/weeks from now. So if there is an proposal/engagement, I would guess it would be during the November sweeps. Let’s hope we hear about a “Back 9” pick up by that time.
I’m just thrilled that this season has been FUN. It appears that “Angstapalooza” is a thing of the past. I think they writers are doing an admirable job of keeping the Chuck and Sarah relationship aspect of the story interesting while at the same time keeping the show what it is – a spy show. Botton line: the difference between S4 (which I think is only going to get better) and S3 is HUGE!!
I honestly don’t see an engagement until the 4.13. We are going to see Chuck and Sarah have a big fight in about 3 eps and then the split up (and it seems more and more a split up vs a break up). An engagement would be a nice denumount to the climax of the original season.
I really disagree Paul, I don’t see them doing that this season. They burned too much goodwill last season; and I think they know another break-up could be ruinous to the show.
They certainly may put off the engagement until November sweeps or even 4.13. But I seriously think they are planning a wedding for 4.13, so the engagement will likely happen sooner.
And for the record I think they’re being foolish to put it off that long. A proposal is hard to hype in previews and advertising, while a wedding is quite easy to promote. I’m absolutely convinced the smart move is to get to the engagement quick and promote the heck out of a November wedding. That might add a number of 18-49 year old women to the audience, which Chuck clearly needs.
Bless me Father for I have sinned.
I had very unpure thoughts during the scene when Sarah is getting ready to go on vacation.
How should I repent?
Don’t know what Fr. Rick is gonna say to that, but I say you need to do your part to get the “same-day plus seven” ratings up by watching again from your DVR AND on-line!
Oh, and report to Report TV too, Joseph!
Were you appreciating the beauty of God’s creation during that scene in your thoughts, or were you…..? Your penance is to go to the other thread on this site and contact as many of the advertisers as you can in support of CHUCK. (And if the temptation is too great, then close your eyes during that scene when you watch the episode again!). 😉
Let me add to the suffering =P NBC posted this:
http://www.nbc.com/chuck/video/ep-404-nonverbal-communication/1253757
All i can say is that i have to get on doign crunches ASAP! I want those abs!
Jen, you’re REALLY not helping me here! 😉 But honestly – put a Hefty 55 gallon lawn and leaf bag on Yvonne – and it would look GREAT!
Didn’t we see that on one of the models in Milan, Fr. Rick? 😉
Dave, I don’t see that Sarah had reservations about marriage per se but rather that she is very happy with the way that things are now and doesn’t see why they should change anything, sort of the same way she was with moving in in Role Models. It’s also consistent with her “go slow” speech from Cubic Z, she is so out of her comfort zone that every step that she takes she wants to stop and take a breath whereas Chuck wants to rush on to the next logical step.
That being said, I think that these episodes are setting up how good a place Chuck and Sarah are in now leading to the problems that will arise when Mama B arrives. I even think that the absence of Sarah and Ellie moments is intentional so that it adds weight to the time when Ellie weighs in on the Sarah/MEB dispute on Sarah’s side it has more impact.
Ellie may be p***** at Chuck for lieing to her about being a spy but when Mama B comes between Chuck and Sarah it will be Ellie who voices how good for Chuck his relationship with Sarah has been.
I’m not denying that Sarah’s position is consistent or even sincerely held, I simply find it stupid. No biggie, stupid is a curable condition we’ve all dealt with a time or two; and I think its already been addressed. I had hoped it had already been dealt with last week but apparently not.
I think you’re exactly right about setting up for the stresses ahead. I hadn’t thought about it including Ellie’s reaction to Sarah, that is a very interesting possibility; it would be great to see Ellie stand up for Sarah.
I seeing Sarah just a little different, Herder. She certainly senses every little thing that’s been changing about her life and reacts by digging in her heels a bit. (Well, okay, a lot sometimes.)
But at the same time, ever since Role Models Sarah’s also seen what she’s doing and checked herself. That’s a good thing. And last week a number of people (me included) wondered if Sarah was actually a bit accepting of the idea of marriage even as she was telling Chuck to go slow. Today she confirmed she was.
To paraphrase Sam Spade, it’s the stuff smiles are made of.
Well, Sarah doesn’t seem to have much problems with “marriage.” She could, with time, see herself marrying Chuck. And now we discover that “with time” means… right now.
But there is still the other issue that was what really bothered her in 4X03 and that persists to this day: babies. Marriage? Yes. Children? No way. Sarah Walker can see herself as a wife, but she can’t see herself as a mother. Not yet.
And depending of how things work out, not ever.
Well, they say never say never, Eli. 😉
In comments to a different post, people were saying that they’d live to see Sarah ask Chuck to marry her. It’s well within her character to do something like that, I think. But I mentioned how I would love for Sarah to start to ask Chuck to marry her, and then be interrupted (like she is so often) by Chuck asking her instead (Chuck, of course, being clueless about what she was going to ask).
This was pretty much the same idea, letting us know (but not Chuck, maybe) that she want to be married to him, yet leaving it possible for him to man-up and do the asking.
It’s still my show!
It was fun to see that they both are apparently ready for marriage. We’re still missing the actual formality of it, but I still expect that to come soon. Probably before we see personal/professional issues arise from the ongoing Frost mission.
I see kids as a completely separate issue, and honestly its fine with me if its never resolved. In fact, if the show ends prior to a 6th season I’d prefer that they don’t deal with it; I want to see some serious Chuck and Sarah time. If we are fortunate and the show continues beyond its original outline, I think adding kids to the mix is completely logical. And given the show’s blend of action, humor, and drama I think adding children is something they could do quite well. But for now, its an issue of small consequence.
I think Ellie seeing Chuck in action is a good thing. Seeing how good he is at taking care of himself and others in a fight might make her more willing to come around to seeing things his way in the long run. And she might be more and more willing the further along she gets with her own baby and she’ll see Chuck as a grown man and not a child to protect.
Especially if she finds out that he was basically forced back in by Beckman tanking his interviews to keep him in the CIA (which is long way from the way she saw him at first) and by the need to use CIA resources to find thier mother (especially if she turns out to be a good guy and since thier father spent so much time looking for her. It would be a crying shame if she’s a bad guy since he left because of thier mother) .
Chuck really appreciated the tanking!
[Ta-da DUM!] Sorry! Couldn’t resist. 😉
This is the second episode in a row where one of the new writers basically recycled plot devices and entire episodes from earlier seasons. Last week, Wooten included about 20 bits from earlier episodes. This week, Newman basically turns CHUCK VERSUS THE THREE WORDS on its head. Except she got it right. Especially and including Sarah responding to and acting on the words Chuck is directing at her while seemingly talking to someone else at gunpoint. So this episode once again reminds us that Season 3 was a total waste of time, fan energy and ratings.
The only thing wrong with Season 4, by and large? There’s no drama in the MEB story. We know how it ends, we were told in the very first moments of the year when MEB is reading Chuck the bedtime story: The Frost Queen comes back after 20 years, saves the Castle and everyone loves her again.
I certainly agree about how S3 was a waste of everyone’s energy. But I’m not quite so cynical about the unfolding of the MEB plot. I mean this Chuck, there’s no way Chuck’s mom is going to end up as some arch villain. The worst we’ll get is the Darth Vader end, mom’s done horrible things but Chuck turns her around in time to see the birth of her first grandchild. And I don’t even think that’s terribly likely; I think she’s in deep cover and is having a hard time extracting herself. But the fun is in the playing out of things; or in the language we used so often last season, even if you know the destination you can still enjoy the journey. Chuck at its best, has always been about the journey; from very funny characters to absurd situations and outrageous stunts. This isn’t 24 where we’re hanging on for every twist and turn. I think Chuck’s about having a good time (well, at least seasons 1,2, and 4 are!).
I will agree with Godot about the recycling somewhat. Yes last week was Role Models redone, only better. Yes, I too felt that this week’s Chuck the marriage counselor was a redo of Three Words, and I agree that they did get it right this time.
(Now if they could recycle and fix the name reveal … Hmm…)
I can even buy off on the somewhat lack of drama. Like last week we got a nugget about Frost near the end of the episode and rather quickly. I know what they are doing by setting this up bit by bit, but it would be nice if some of these nuggets were given more “weight” during the episode.
Last season they held on to Sarah’s red test so long, that it didn’t matter. The nuggets are better this season are dropping hints which is good and we are going to get to Mama B in a couple of weeks not in episode 12.
So although I get your point of view I can’t share it because at the end of the episodes this season I can say that I was entertained.
I think fixing the name reveal may take a miracle or at least one heck of an apology . Possibly some psychoananlysis.
Sarah officially and permanently changes her name to Sarah Lisa Walker.
Sarah Lisa Bartowski 😉
My bad!! I apologize for the oversight.:)
Yeah, Sarah Lisa Bartowski will be official at some point I’m sure.
In the past we’ve had parallells drawn between Morgan and Chuck’s love life. That was turned on it’s ear when Morgan was unwilling to take Anna back after she broke his heart and Chuck was willing to take Sarah back in spite of all the pain.
I think the parallel relationships this season are the Chuck/Sarah and the Papa B/Mama B relationships. I wouldn’t be surprised at all if we find out that she was Papa B’s handler in the beginning. Except of course we hope things will work out better for Chuck and Sarah.
And I loved the ending. It felt like an apology for all those eps in season 3 where we would be feeling fairly good about the ep and then at the end they’d stick in the knife and twist it. Tic tac for instance felt so hopeful with no Shaw and them seeming to connect and then the end has her going to Shaw in DC and saying she may be moving there.
Tamara, that’s a good observation, the parallel with Papa and Mama B. Do you think, though, that they might be trying to draw a parallel with Ellie & Awesome too? Well, if not a parallel, then they’re trying to keep them in C&S’s focus as role models?
I suspect they are.
I don’t have a lot of time to get into it…but I thought the reference to change and emotions (“I love you Chuck, nothing’s ever going to change that”) was pretty pointed. If you tie in the parallel with MamaB/PapaB and Chuck and Sarah I think we have a very interesting situation right there.
Especially considering that promo and the implication they made in said promo (Sorry I’m trying to stay spoiler free but it’s hard!).
And that’s it from me for the night…unless my self control fails me again 😉 LOL.
Wonderful critiques, all! Everything that I experienced in the hour seems to have been captured here.
This has to be the best use of the guest stars so far this season, with only the exception of Linda Hamilton. And of course, much of that is anticipation of what’s to come. Assente is amazing, of course. But I really enjoyed Tia Texada too.
The end made me think of Sarah not quite (but just quite) telling Chuck that her middle name was Lisa. It was just as sweet.
It was fantastic to see Chuck & Sarah fighting together so effectively right in front of Ellie & Awesome. That’s something I wanted to see! Ellie’s fountain speech was perfect. She’s not at the point of letting Chuck be spy (in her own mind, that is). But she’s getting there.
Using the idea of Chuck & Sarah needed to communicate better by using a Morgan suggested book was a hoot. Uh, no, it’s not gonna happen that way. I’m lovin’ that they’re working at it so consistently.
Oddly, I didn’t care for Chuck’s little speech, though. It reminded me too much of Three Words. But I did like how Sarah stepped up. That one I’m gonna watch again.
But my favorite thing through the whole episode was Morgan. Throw the book away, buddy. I find myself rooting for him and Alex nearly as much as I did for Chuck & Sarah back in S1! – only this time, without the angst!
And, oh yeah. The purple one. Definitely, the purple one. 😉
Joe you’e wrong, the correct answer is all of them.
Dang! You’re right again, Herder. 😉
the whole good stuff. couldn’t resist…
Purple was smokin’, but green was the winner to me. Just wow.
What? No love for the gold? That one was great too!
We will soon return you to our regularly scheduled intelligence level, right after the boys in the room recuperate…
I tend to forget about the gold, there was a bit of sensory overload going on there…
Leopard Print my friends, Leopard Print.
O.K., O.K., O.K. I’m going to weigh in on this one. I’m a bit color blind, so the color I saw may not have been the color the rest of you saw, but it was the LAST suit she put on – it looked greenish or turquoise (spelling???). Whatever it was, it was the best of the lot. Not that the others weren’t great, too! 😉
Sorry Fr. Rick, this got caught in the spam filter for some reason. – Ernie
This is copied and pasted so apologies…but I have a paper to write and so much reading to do that my original thoughts will have to come later haha.
So here goes…what I thought about Coup (Pun: it was a coup of communication):
If you remember I didn’t have a ball last week. I didn’t hate it but I also couldn’t rightly say I loved it. Well I. Loved. This. Note: I’m not saying it’s the best ever (because honestly I think we just might get that this season)…but it was pretty damn good. (Excuse my french).
It was funny, it was spy-ish, it was touching and most of all it was genuine. It also fixed what was wrong with the last epi in my opinion.
I had a huge laugh at the question of their communication skills…Morgan put it best: “precious looks and whimsical little make ups after misunderstandings you guys are ” It seemed like the past 3 years have been about that. Less about communication but more about feelings. While I appreciate the feelings, I have to say I’m coming to love the communication. This is what a real couple would do (you’re a chuckaholic if you’re thinking in your head while you’re reading that: “that’s not what a normal guy would do” lol)…and they do it pretty good…finally.
Awhile back a friend Joe (Bucko27 around these parts) brought up the idea of one word to explain the seasons as a whole and I said that my word for this season is intimacy. There is no greater intimacy than honest and heartfelt communication. We got the bees knees of that tonight and it felt so good.
Sarah: “If you ask me for real, I would say yes.”
OMG. I loved that. I KNEW it, I knew she would say yes. I knew that in a lot of ways she’s ready for that…it’s not without its hand-wringing and mishegas but it’s Chuck. They’ve been working on this for years now…and she’s been in love with him for so long it’s no longer out of the realm of possibilities even for her. But of course just like all the steps that has taken her to this point…so will telling him that when he’s awake.
Notice that Chuck said from the very beginning: “I’d like to know thinking I might have been is good news or horrible news.” Don’t you love it when your questions get answered within 43 minutes?
Now for something shipper-unrelated: I have to say I really enjoyed the musical choices tonight. Not in a “I got to buy that” kind of way but the choices was pretty freakin funny. Apart from the beginning (which was more tone specific rather than situation descriptive) the rest were so fun. The “Jazz” for when Morgan was kissing Alex, fantastic! (Without You by Lewis Lamedica).
– Casey’s interaction between his daughter, the Generalissimo and the “silence” was pure gold. The best I can say is shiny!
– I expect to see parallel between Chuck and Sarah and Ellie and Awesome and I was kind of disappointed I didn’t see a lot of that. It seemed like it would have been perfect timing to show just how well they communicate…they tried some of it but it wasn’t enough.
– Finally Big Mike’s paternal affection/advice and subsequent disappointment for the implication that he doesn’t measure up…TOO funny! I have to say I was beginning to see his role as unnecessary but with this twist I actually like it. Big Mike as Big Papa works for me.
Final thought: as someone who loves psychology and all that comes with that LMAO at the self-help book. The repeated and “Busted!” moment were all great.
P.S. Chuck was so adorable inside the van trying to broach communication. That was so cute!
Faith, like everyone else’s comments tonight, you make me smile. Hey! Maybe that was the show’s intent. It worked.
And you’re so right. Chuck trying to broach their communicating in the van *was* cute!
We’re totally on the same page tonight Faith. There were a few things I would have done differently, but the episode was fun and satisfying all the way through. My criticisms are all minor.
Faith, I saw the opposite with Chuck and Sarah vs. Awesome and Ellie. The Awesome’s were used to emphasize Chuck and Sarah’s lack of communication skills among other things.
Something I forgot to add to my post:
Chuck: “Dr. Fred says talking about the difficult things to your partner while you’re asleep.”
Sarah: “Chuck, are you awake? Can you hear me Chuck? (Sigh) I love you Chuck, nothing’s ever going to change that. And if you ask me for real then my answer would be yes.”
Sarah talked to Chuck about the difficult things while he’s asleep. She hasn’t quite proven me wrong with the whole pace and ease at which she deals with change and commitment but she’s getting there.
Thanks Joe!
And yeah, all is well in the world again Dave, we’re back to agreeing lol.
Weaselone I know there were some snippets of parallel but it wasn’t enough. Also yet another thing I found noticeable was the lack of Sarah+Ellie interaction. But I’m mollified with the honest and heartfelt conversations between Chuck and Sarah. Especially that end 😉
“while they’re asleep” they’re. This is what I get for trying to think at 4 am. Oh well have to get up in 2 hours lol. Chuck-ffeine hits again! Night all!
OK, who thinks that Chuck really was asleep when Sarah told him “my answer would be yes”?
Or was he conscious, just trying to sleep, understanding everything?
Or was he asleep and the intersect was working on his behalf?
I got it as his subconscious picking up on the “confession” and the slight smile as a reaction. I don’t think he was actually awake. Subconsciously, though, he now has the peace of mind of knowing she’d say yes. Should even out the bumps ahead.
That is a tough one. He smiled but why would he fake sleeping.
Her telling Chuck she is ready was way up there in Sarah’s growth journey. The question is did Chuck hear it and if he did when does he pop the question.
We know the first fight is coming and the split up is also coming does it happen after? I still predict episode 9 or 10.
I’m fairly certain Chuck was asleep. It looks like it was one of Sarah’s 30 minutes of silence sans cuddling nights as agreed upon in their earlier discussions. If Chuck had been awake and Sarah was interested in speaking with him, I doubt he would have hesitated in responding.
I think the scene was just one of those great moments we’ve had through-out.
Like Sarah whispering “My middle name is Lisa.”, I think we’re intentionally left to wonder if he heard. I’m going to let be be okay either way.
And whether he heard or not, it really was a sweet moment.
We do know that Chuck heard Sarah say her middle name – it was on the back of his Tron poster!… although there was a question mark…. In this case –
I think his subconscious – or the intersect heard what she said…
speaking of which – I’d still like to see the Intersect exerting some force on Chuck. Where we learn that the intersect is actively trying to find/gather information – pushing him – influencing his actions and decisions… they toyed with that last year… through Chuck having nightmares. It might be a nice layer to add into the plot. We’ll call it Chuck’s educated intuition…
Great lines (Paraphrasing):
Sarah: “Is THAT the book? The one with wedding rings all over it?”
Chuck: (look of horror as he slowly shakes his head ‘no’) Yes.
Goya’s assistant: “Costa Gravas now has peace. And a Subway sandwich franchise!”
And a great visual gag. Morgan in his office, making a list of PROs and CONs about becoming involved with Alex. At the top of the CONs list: “Casey Hurting Me”
#3 was “Chokes Me”
He also has a little fish mounted on the wall, perhaps an homage to Big Mike. Funny sight gag though.
All great lines, Morgan’s list was a hoot.
Yup! I love his pro column: pretty, smells nice. More than enough for most guys…;)
Something that I don’t think anyone else has touched on yet…. When Chuck – doing his Dr.Phil routine … helping el Generalisimo y esposa solve their problems….
Its amazing that once again – both Chuck and Sarah have found themselves on both sides of the same coin. Chuck loves Sarah – but in his own way – is looking forward to more. Sarah sees this and fears the change. [ pessimist]
But Chuck [ the optimist is seeing change as a way to get better… grow stronger…. deeper intimacy – better communication and understading. Sarah loves Chuck – and she loves the way things are. Since she probably hasn’t had a relationship that has gone even this far…. she sees any change as taking away from where they’re at.
Somehow during the final section of dialogue – they were able to see the other’s point of view.
Interesting, I wonder if we’ll see our dynamic duo swap sides on this issue…. wonder how long it will take for either Chuck to get the courage to ask – or if we’ll see Sarah propose to him….
Either way – the change of tone and handling over season 3 is being most appreciated!
About Morgan – I almost missed the good Dr. frantically clicking his pen and jotting notes!
They didn’t dance!
You know, one thing that stands out for the future episode entitled First Fight. Chuck and Sarah have fought before, all the way back to at the Weinerlicious, they fought in many episodes. So what is “first” about this fight? First fight as an engaged couple? First fight as a married couple? I’m just spitballing, but what makes this fight a first?
They get seriously mad at each other. I am thinking like the Ellie/awesome fight over Washer vs tv.
1.Up till now C/S have been in agreement over the Mama B topic. Hence,their first fight over Mama B.
But I like your scenario better – first fight as an engaged couple.
I don’t know. I suppose they could go the Mr. and Mrs. Smith route. I’m not certain how I would feel about that [B]after[\B] watching the show, even if it made good entertainment in the moment.
“it’s easier to ask for forgiveness than permission.”
I’ve wondered that too Amy. It can’t be a bigger fight than the whole S3 FUBAR; even S1 saw a few Chuck/Sarah spats. I’m thinking first fight as an engaged couple. Although it may be completely misleading; like someone else’s first fight (I doubt they would name an episode for a Morgan/Alex malfunction, but who knows), or first fight in a certain context we are currently lacking.
I think it’s their first real fight as a real couple
Given the tendency of titles to have double meanings, I suspect the other meaning might refer to someone else fighting for the first time.
Morgan is the most likely candidate. (After all, he’s field-certified by Casey!) Of course he’ll get out of the jam in some funny fashion.
But maybe it’s Ellie and Chuck. There might be a lot of repressed emotions in both of them. The entrance of MEB in their lives might trigger this fight. This would be their first as adults; I assume they had fights as children that we can ignore.
Chuck and Ellie is an intriguing possibility.
I have rolled that around in my head since the title was first released. I’m thinking how many first fights do they get? I do think it’s a C/S fight b/c of an Yvonne interview. Either first fight as an engaged couple or a real couple.
The fight will be about MEB, I’ll bet. My guess is Sarah (and Casey) will determine she’s a rogue agent who needs to be brought down. Chuck will be certain she’s deep undercover and it’s all a big misunderstanding.
“She’s evil!”
“She’s can’t be evil!”
“She drew a gun on me!”
“You drew on her first!”
Chuck helps his mom escape or some-such. And there you have it.
/just spit-balling, of course.
Maybe Sarah does ends up taking Mama B into custody. Chuck, in his attempt to help his mom busts her out in 4×08 and goes rogue. Hence the rumored “split up” between C/S. Would be interesting to see how long the split up lasts. Any rumors as to the duration of the split up?
But wasn’t it Chuck in next weeks promo who says he thinks his mom might not be on their side? Color me confused, but is this rumored C/S split thing you guys are talking about?
*what* excuse me.
Last I knew it could be either personal or professional; so my money is simply on them having separate missions for a couple episodes. If they really have a serious fight, I am positive no more than one episode will end on a down note.
TPTB have clearly said Chuck and Sarah are a couple this season, and that they learned a lesson about keeping them apart on screen. So mark my words, one sour ending for Chuck and Sarah, maximum!
Okay, so maybe Chuck didn’t tell Ellie that he’s a spy again but hey, at least he told her he’s looking for their mother. That to me meant much more then him telling her about the spy stuff. And it seemed like Ellie knew he was still a spy from the kick butt fight and effortless spy skills he and Sarah did and from the way she was looking at him when they had their talk. She would probably come to grips with the fact that Spying is in Chuck’s blood and her’s also they can’t escape it.
I loved Casey speaking spanish to that bad guy (he’s so badass I adore Casey. 🙂 )
One nitpick though, I felt slightly irritated at Morgan writing ways of Casey hurting him. Casey wouldn’t be happy about it. But he’s not a bully nor a murderer.
No, Casey’s not a bully or murderer, but he does have anger management issues. 😉 He’s grabbed Morgan (and Chuck) by the collar, coat lapels, neck, and other assorted parts when he’s frustrated or furious. And both of them have seen what Casey is capable of when he’s “peeved.”
Rather than be concerned what Casey would do to him if he dated his daughter, Morgan should be concerned with what Casey would do to him if the relationship goes sour.
Heh! I’ll put it this way, Sammie (and Hi, btw!) Casey’s not a bully or a murderer, but he sure is intimidating!
One of the best and yet most subtle things about the humor in Chuck is that it brings out our fears, longings, hopes and desires by exaggerations like this. You wanted to get out of your rut? Here’s an Intersect! You wanted the beautiful woman? Here’s Sarah.
You wanted love in your life? This is what you must do.
For all the bigger than life exaggerations, it’s all the more real.
My review:
Superb, Sweet And Sexy! – Episode 4.04: Chuck Vs The Coup D’Etat – http://tinyurl.com/2e6fww4 – Thank you Kristin Newman!
OD, we don’t often agree but “it’s nice to know where we stand” 😉
Actually amazingly enough as I was watching it I felt like it was the best mix of all things loved by all since…well I can’t quite remember (haven’t had my caffeine today). So yes, sexy, superb and sweet. Oh so sweet.
Thank you for reminding me that Kristin Newman is from HIMYM and That 70s show…two shows I enjoyed until I didn’t. She definitely isn’t coming into Chuck inexperienced and I must say great for us!
While I’m nostalgic for Matt Miller and Ali Adler (as I watch my S3 DVD extras) I know that in some ways they are not forgotten by those that come later and aren’t without their own strengths…much like Ms. Newman.
This is a rare event when you and I agree on almost every detail of an episode OD; this was clever and satisfying on so many levels. My only disagreement would be I liked revisiting Chuck’s dual intentioned speech for Goya and Hortensia. I found it far more satisfying than when it was used in Three Words, largely because Sarah was an active participant this time. Right up to the end when she told Chuck to keep talking, she knew his words were working on both intended audiences.
I didn’t care the “101 Conversations” book (or its author) as a device; but that may be because I dislike those sorts of books so much anyway. The Chuck and Sarah discussions that resulted I DID enjoy, it was fun to see them talking and mostly having fun with it (Sarah describing her partner, “brunette, tall”; too funny).
I was also somewhat disappointed by the lack of Ellie/Sarah time, but that isn’t a huge issue to me.
I don’t think I like keeping Ellie in the dark about Chuck’s spy life, it didn’t bother me in the first three seasons; but it seems like just another sort of wt/wt from a show that wore out that technique long ago. The really unfortunate part of it now is I find myself not liking Ellie much. I imagine that will pass, it was never an issue before, and I believe its just tied to her trying to control Chuck’s career choices (that really rubs me wrong!).
In case Faith and Dave haven’t convinced you, this is a great review, even by Lou’s high standards. Go read!
thanks
On the plus side, this episode was absolutely hilarious, and I loved the frantic fight scene at the party in Costa Gravas. On the minus side, the show really needs to put away the Charah sledgehammer. Sarah had a particularly notable line in this episode: “Why can’t we just be?” That’s exactly how I feel about the Chuck/Sarah stuff right now.
Merve, that’s why I want them to just get on with it. The “engagement” issue will hang there until they do it. It needs to be done so they can get on with the spy story. You know, if its left hanging it will dominate discussion even if MEB is killing main characters!
The way I see it, the engagement question has been resolved. It’s no longer a question of if but of when, so I don’t mind if that issue is shoved into the background for some time, while more interesting issues take its place. That being said, Chuck has become really sitcommy recently, so I’m expecting that when the engagement happens, it’ll eat up an entire episode.
I’ve been relatively spoiler-free this season, so my info might be inaccurate, but as I understand it, the next episode is supposed to be Casey-centric. I welcome that. I loved “Undercover Lover” and “Tic Tac,” so I’m expecting good things next week.
I’ll agree the engagement issue was handled in an emotionally satisfying way, but until Chuck actually pops the question and Sarah says yes (or vice versa), you know perfectly well the subject will dominate on-line discussion. I’m going to guess that will bother you more than it bothers me! But I seriously think as far as placing the spy story front and center they need to address the other quickly. I also think doing so will help the show feel more like an adventure again and less “sitcommy” as you so well put it. I would hope though that the proposal does not dominate any one episode (time wise, it will of course dominate the feel and memory), I think they’ll save that for the wedding.
I agree a Casey centric episode sounds good right now. Undercover Lover was outstanding, and Tic Tac was good at least for that point in the season last year. I would add that Chuck and Sarah were a MAJOR part of Tic Tac and I wouldn’t rule out a major event for them next week just because its a Casey centric episode.
I agree that until the engagement is a reality it will suck a lot of oxygen out of the room. The best way to really move forward in their spy adventures, the mom hunt and the Volkoff threat, is to settle the engagement. They won’t use a whole ep for it, b/c they have settled the issue emotionally. I bet (and it’s a good thing these are zero wage bets, b/c I have been wrong so often) the actual engagement will be sort of quick and a bit of a surprise (as much as it can be at this point), b/c they gave it a lot of time in Coup d’Etat.
Couch Lock should be fun. Lots of Casey and Team B. And maybe something unexpected.
Yeah Thinkling, funny about our “on-line wagering.” I’d be in serious trouble if I was betting money. But as long as its just my reputation I got nothing to loose…
Hey, wait! I was betting some serious Costa Gravan Pesos here! No fair! 😉
OK Joe, I’ll see your truckload and raise you a freighter.
It’s amazing how much warmth, good feeling, and significance they can squeeze into a relatively brief time. Tight writing and absolutely superb acting(!!) bring us brief moments that dwarf the rest of the episode on the character/emotion level. Yvonne and Zac really pack it in.
@thinkling jepp, i totally agree with you! AND you really can see how both Zac and Yvonne enjoy their acting together in this lighter mood. especially Yvonne is obviously happy playing a happy Sarah.
Oh, yeah, odysszeuss. And they’re not the only ones happily enjoying it. What a huge relief for all of us.
I didn’t see anyone mention this (I just got home and skimmed) but Chuck got a 1.9 last night. We’ll give it a day or two to see if it rounds up or not. Meanwhile, Chase, The Event, dropped even further. I will update the chart after Undercovers airs Wednesdays and ratings are out Thursday.
Elephant in the room:
Ok – I’m wondering if someone can try to give me some answers….
How does Volkoff first arrange a prisoner transfer – then sabatage the transfer vehicle, then intercept or redirect a transfer helicopter – all under the very nose of the CIA???
How does Volkoff finance a 1/2 billion arms deal – [ Project Beacon] and sell nuclear weapons to Costa Gravas? Without anyone really knowing who they are? Where they are? or more importantly – what they are up to???
We seem to be too busy thinking about a reunion with Chuck’s mother… and maybe not nearly concerned enough about Volkoff….
Before the season started we were told that there would be a gender role reversal, many of us were confused as the show has always had a gender role reversal with Sarah as the stoic kick-ass lead in the relationship and Chuck as the empethetic follower who wanted to talk about his feelings. I realize that I am generalizing and assigning gender roles based on sterotypes but that is often the norm for an arguement.
I for one was not sure what that meant, was Chuck going to become more manly and Sarah more of a girl or was that simply highlighting something that had been with the show from the start.
Four episodes in and I think that we are getting our answer, Chuck still wants to talk about his lady feelings – although he is being called on it from time to time – and Sarah still loaths to talk about hers. Even more, it is Chuck who is pushing things forward while Sarah is the one who wants to enjoy things as they are.
So far we have had Sarah on the road for an extended business trip while Chuck (supposedly) keeps the home fires burning. Chuck wondering what Sarah’s refusal to unpack means for her commitment to him. Chuck bringing up the issues of marriage and children and Sarah’s freaked out response. And finally Chuck wanting to work on their communication skills and Sarah somewhat reluctantly agreeing.
This season even more than previous years has Chuck assuming the more traditionally feminine role and Sarah having the more traditional masculine role (although calling her masculine after the bikini show seems a form of blasphemy). At least in an emotional sense, in terms of physical action they both seem to take the lead.
Think about it the typical tv trope is that the guy freaks out when he finds out that his girlfriend is leaving clothes and, god forbid feminine bathroom items, at his place, we get the reverse. Typically the guy freaks out over the girl bringing up marriage and children (she is always talking about her married sisters, I think she wants to become a married sister herself), we get the reverse. Typically it is the girl who complains that her guy doesn’t communicate about important emotional things, we get the reverse.
I presume we get another arguement about guns or about Sarah’s training gear and the like before the biggest switch of all, she proposes not him. Think about it has there been a major tv show that had the girl propose to the guy? Certainly a good way to switch it around.
True, but Chuck is getting hammered for that behavior by a segment of the viewers even in an episode where a mission interrupts his time to talk. I think Chuck’s girlishness needs to be dialed back a bit, particularly on missions to appeal to other fans. I like the role reversal, but I think in some areas it can be more understated while still treating us to things like Chuck negotiating for cuddle time while Sarah wants 30 minutes of silence before bed.
Last season we were treated to a Chuck that cleans when he’s stressed while Sarah likes to shoot things and beat the snot out of inanimate and living objects (Casey, Heather). It would be nice if the producers settled it once and for all who was the cook when Morgan isn’t around. Has Chuck been getting roast tips from his sister and Morgan (who in turn gets them from Alex) or did Sarah actually learn to cook in pursuit of becoming a real girl? I’m more interested in seeing disputes over domestic duties and the overturning of domestic stereotypes than seeing Chuck endlessly pursue Sarah to talk about her feelings. That could be there, but it should flow naturally out of conversations as opposed to being forced by Chuck, on a mission, with Chuck pursuing it like a pitbull.
Without getting into specifics…this is just a spec afterall, I actually don’t think we’ve seen the role reversal as of yet. At least not fully.
I’m thinking the role reversal will be a role-role reversal as in what we know of Chuck (lady feelings) and Sarah (why do we alway shave to talk about where we’re going or our feelings, why can’t we just be) will be reversed and I think it largely will have to do with MamaB. While on the surface this may seem OOC for the characters we’ve come to know I think it’ll be done in a way that makes sense and is for the most part intriguing.
However I like the post. I like the idea of what was being build on in a lot of ways just 4 episodes in. It’s a return (I think I’ve said that before lol) to what it was I loved about Chuck.
And you know I’m on board with the Sarah proposes to Chuck bandwagon. There are some very vociferous sides to that scenario but I for one will take it either way…preferably with Chuck proposing and Sarah eventually proposing ♥.
Weaselone, I’m beginning to think there are people that you just can’t make happy lol. I’m more for the what I know and where we’re going kind of person and am without question happy with what we have now. The Chuck that talks about his lady feelings is fine by me. The lack of communication in years past has grated, this season’s extended communication introspection is a welcome event. Keep em coming 😉
I don’t really have a problem with it either, but with budget cuts it would be entertaining and cost effective see Chuck, Sarah and crew spend some time at the home front tackling some more mundane issues like Chuck and Sarah trying to make a passable meatloaf when Morgan and Ellie are out of town and uninvited ninja assassins show up early for dinner.
Speaking off…it’s fun fan fodder (prob shouldn’t happen in actual film) to think about whether Chuck and Sarah ever talked about her attacking him with “her” ninja side in the pilot.
I’m thinking not, although to be honest Morgan probably did more damage.
Great topic.
Chuck was portrayed in S1&2 as a bit of a wimp with too many lady feelings, according to Casey, right? Yet Sarah saw him as brave, smart, intuitive, tall and brunette (apparently). But definitely since Colonel, Chuck’s been much more sure of himself and manning up a heck of a lot more when he has to. Ellie saw it in Costa Gravas. Chuck vs. Shaw in the Buy More was very cool.
Sarah’s still a badass, but she’s clearly very girlfriendie now, without it being an act or a cover. (I’m hoping to see more of what we saw in Suburbs, though.)
In a way, it almost seems they’re not switching “gender roles” so much as adding to what they had before. Make any sense?
I agree with you Joe. I think they have both been moving toward the other role. Chuck is much more spy-like, not whiny, not flash-constipated. Sarah is softer, much more settled, communicative (for her), openly flirtatious, openly vulnerable with Chuck. I don’t know if there will be an out-and-out switch, but we’ve seen changes.
So far I mostly like the role reversal. I’m not sure if it will take on a deeper meaning at some point.
I love the idea of Sarah popping the question, but I’m betting that won’t happen. I think they mean to keep her more passive in the relationship, Chuck will always be the force of the change. I REALLY hope I’m wrong about that.
I guess, to weigh in, is that the only thing I didn’t love about the episode was Chuck constantly wanting to work on their communication skills. I think they wore that bit out.
I’m chuckling at the thought of Sarah and Chuck making the Thanksgiving meal. We know what a mess Ellie was (stressed out) and it would be funny to see Sarah in that role, waiting to host dinner for Ellie, Awesome, Morgan, Alex, and Casey.
She’s already said yes. That’s a pretty big step.
Amy, don’t forget Mom … no pressure. And I thought my first in-law turkey was stressful.
Funny thing about the way we got that yes though; does that mean the actual proposal is imminent? Or are they thinking its settled so it can be back-burnered for now? I think emotionally its settled; but the really cynical part of me just wants to groan at all the steps they keep adding to draw out the process. They need to take care of this so we can all focus on other parts of the story! I gurantee, MEB or no, if the engagement issue is still hanging for 4.06-4.10 it WILL dominate on line discussion in all forums.
I think the problem with Chuck talking about his feelings during missions is fatigue from the previous three seasons. Instead of Chuck wondering whether Sarah has feelings for him now we get how committed and deep are her feelings. It’s the same old thing with a new coat of paint.
A lot of these issues should’ve been covered in S3 but we know how that went. Plus they only have thirteen episodes so the conversations that should happen at Casa Bartowski aren’t because of time constraints. It seems like last season taught them how to pace a 13 ep story better. We don’t need a engagement or marriage whiplash, like how Mask and Other Guy was handled. They’ve sowed the seeds already and hopefully it’ll allow them to focus more on MEB and Timothy Dalton.
Personally it doesn’t bother me as much because Chuck’s girly feelings are being balanced out by him being a badass. Talking about his cuddling needs and then kicking the crap out of some guards is perfect. It really shows how far he’s come in three years. And Sarah is being handled better than ever on the show, no more interpreting facial expressions. She actual talks and expresses herself, hell has frozen over.
Wow, JC, you just said what I was trying to say in my post. Well done!
Touché
I certainly agree Sarah is being handled better than ever. I’m kind of mixed on Chuck, I’m tired of him bringing up feelings at inappropriate times on missions; yet I often like the interplay, especially the flirting/teasing kind. It may be something they finetune better as the season goes, the change in the relationship is new ground for the writers too.
I’m not sure what you mean by whiplash, by my count we’re about a year overdue for the engagement (meaning, this should have been last season’s story); and I think they need to do it soon to get to the wedding before its all over. And I mean that in a permanent sense; Chuck isn’t getting much buzz this season, but as I’ve said many times, nothing would be easier to promote AND generate free publicity like a prime time wedding. They really NEED to do that while there’s still time to see a ratings spike and have it matter.
They can’t rush things in attempt to garner ratings though. That would be the worse thing they can do. Ok not the worse, but not good either.
I’m of the opinion that all of this requires care and handling…and time. I’m not opposed to an engagement in say 4.6 but I believe vehemently it’s still a bit soon. Besides even though Sarah may be willing to marry Chuck at this point, she’s yet to be able to say those words when he’s awake…not to mention 87 more questions to go!
@Dave
By whiplash I mean no buildup to it. If they hadn’t talked about marriage at all during the season and then in 4.12 or 4.13 they get married or engaged it would’ve been terrible.
@Dave,
With the best will in the world, I think at this point (3 seasons plus in) Chuck’s audience is what it is. Promoting a wedding really isn’t going to make much difference in terms of new viewers or a ratings spike.
Re Chuck’s Lady Feelings,
First off – I loved the episode! By far the best of the season for me, for all the reasons discussed most eloquently in previous posts.
The one thing that is getting old for me though is Chuck’s constant neediness, on missions or otherwise. From a character POV it just jars, and it doesn’t make any sense. We’ve seen real progression from Sarah in terms of admitting her feelings, and communicating them, even when she’s so far out of her comfort zone – but where’s the similar progression from Chuck in terms of overcoming his neuroses?
The constant need to reaffirm their relationship is something I would have expected from Season 1 Chuck – but since then, Sarah has committed treason for him, offered to run away with him and shown that she loves him in countless ways. Chuck has become a real spy, he juggles his various responsibilities, he’s got the girl – he’s grown up. He’s a man. But he’s still insecure about Sarah and seems in some mad rush to progress the relationship to the next level with all due haste. It smacks of a continuing insecurity that doesn’t make sense, and doesn’t reflect where his character has progressed to. And it’s – almost – on the verge of becoming annoying. When the rest of the episode is as good and funny and action-packed as this one was, it’s easy to look past it – but I hope we can get actually get past it starting with the next episode and move onto something meatier and slightly less fluffy (or sitcommy, as Merve put it so well).
Faith, I hope that doesn’t mark me as one of the “some people are just never happy” brigade. I certainly don’t think that, and I’m thoroughly enjoying the season. But where some people have a bee in their bonnet about Chuck’s lying to Ellie, that really doesn’t bother me. My bee is a Casey-esque attitude to Chuck’s lady feelings!
I have to admit, if this enforced “split up” is done right (assuming it happens at all) it could be fantastic. A kidnapping and rescue? A fake death in order to go rogue? Even Casey and Sarah lining up (temporarily of course) against Chuck and Mama B? Any of those scenarios sound fabulous to me. I’m ready to get into the real drama of the season.
What I’d like to see is something that reminds us of why Sarah fell for Chuck, or failing that at least something about him expressing how lucky he is to have her. They have been recycling some of the bits from earlier episodes, perhaps a reworked First Date speech, funny and touching at the same time.
I actually do agree they shouldn’t rush with no build up; I just think they’ve already overdone it, at least for the engagement. Part of why I want it done soon is so there is a proper build up to the wedding late in the season.
And Kev I still think that promotion could help. In the US we lost over 2 million viewers during the Shaw arc last season; I’ve had some luck in bringing viewers back to the show, simply because most of them left in disgust over the romance and are very happy to return now that things are “fun” again. I think advertising a wedding would drive the point home to many that the show is safe and fun again; maybe a bunch of those who left would see fit to return.
By the way Kev, I agree entirely with your take on Chuck’s neediness; you managed to express things far more clearly than I had.
I certainly didn’t mean to be pointed with my can’t make everyone happy spiel. Frankly I include myself in that category because the minute they leave off he relationship and concentrate on the spy is when I will become disgruntled. Not that I don’t appreciate that aspect but rather I think Chuck is good enough to juggle all the balls in the air. Dramedyactionysuspense it is 🙂
Having said that I think JC(?) is correct. They have learned this season how to balance within the constraints they are under. It’s not a ____ story per say but a strong showing for all that people care about. At least if you were paying attention 😉
Now as for Chuck’s constant insecurity…true and not quite? I think it’s important to remember that it’s not just Sarah that has abandonment issues it’s Chuck too. And with him his psychoses is complicated by having fallen for someone with a history of disconnection. It’s hard for Ellie to rely on Awesome, imagine just how difficult it is for Chuck to believe that which is his hearts desire is his and lasting.
But I do agree that Sarah has more than earned his faith at this point. Not to metion his trust.
Herder, he’s tall and brunette.
You mean that’s not enough? Haha.
I think we also to look at them maneuvering the C/S relationship into a good place for the inevitable clash over MEB.
We know First Fight is over trust issues which I’m guessing is about MEB’s loyalty. Is this the episode in which Beckman finds out? Having the Intersect compromised because of his loyalty to his mother. We know how Chuck is, no matter the evidence he’ll give MEB the benefit of the doubt. This might be the rumored split up of Chuck & Sarah and maybe Team B as a whole.
If we look at the casting for Fear of Death, it features Rob Riggle as an agent brought in to teach Chuck how to be a better spy. Then you have Summer Glau as Greta which I’ve heard is a larger role. So is this the Temporary Team B? It would make sense to have Chuck partnered with spies who aren’t part of his extended family. Add in Richard Chamberlain as an evil spy who kidnaps or tricks Chuck? This leads to Beckman realizing her screw up and bringing in Sarah, Casey and Morgan to rescue Chuck.
What does this have to do with marriage? The thought of losing Chuck could drive Sarah over the edge, hello mud covered lake scene. And it would make them both realize they shouldn’t wait on something they both obviously want.
If Chuck doesn’t talk, we don’t get Sarah telling him she would say yes while he’s sleeping. Sarah’s made a lot of progress, but for the most part she’s had to be pushed and prodded to make it. As for Chuck’s needines, I’m not so sure that’s the driving factor here. A couple needs to communicate,
My stated wish-list was a dance , a dynamic-duo fight in front of Ellie, and an engagement. One and a half out of three isn’t too bad. And they got the right 1.5. We got a great fight scene in front of a stunned Ellie, and we got the right half of the proposal — the acceptance. All smiles here.
Fun seems to be my stock word to describe season 4. So, Coup d’Etat = FUN + 3 — Communication, Love, & Change.
FUN
MORGAN sees 20/20 (or so he thinks) when it comes to Chuck & Sarah’s romance, but he’s MR Magoo when it comes to his own. In a world filled with awkward Chuck and Sarah moments … Morgan can always find a way to further complicate them. Mother Hen Morgan. Terrified Morgan and his list. The whole relationship advice chain. Big Mike -> Morgan -> Chuck & Sarah -> the Goya’s. Take a number.
BIG MIKE and his interactions with Morgan. I could just well up … Please don’t. Sweet jams … what, really?
THE AWESOME’S: Devon talking to the baby — Ellie hiding behind a book. Captain Marbelous — Way to go Marble Me (uhhh…). Mui caliente moments. They blew my head off.
BECKMAN: I want everyone who wasn’t shot recently … everyone else should be in bed. Costa Gravas is nuclear (no more than Beckman at that moment!)!
ALL THINGS CASEY: Terrible patient Casey. Bored Casey. Protective dad Casey. Tough Casey, Who wants to die first? And quintessential Casey — I say we blow the room and let Costa Gravas start fresh … Today I’m Muerte.
THE GOYA’S: Generalissimo and Casey bonding moments: Roomies … Your casa is my casa (cracked me up). Knocking Casey out to save his life — a nice moment of humanity for the megalomaniacal dictator. Creepy interaction with Ellie. Alejandro e Hortencia were perfect the whole way through! And coming soon … Hortencia meets Hillary. It’ll be a sell-out event.
CHUCK AND SARAH, wow, they make a good team … a good spy team and a good comedy team. The fake proposal was a spring board to a delightful thread of humor. Chuck volunteering Sarah’s spy services so he can have a couple’s communication-vacation, with her in a bikini. See Chuck smile … color Sarah confused. ~ Flirtacious/seductive Sarah. (Priceless, and I loved how it’s totally different from Agent Walker seducing a mark. With Chuck it’s infused with affection and flirtation—playful with and undercurrent of intimacy.) ~ Sarah’s head in the spy game and Chuck’s head in the vacation (except he wasn’t whiny and she wasn’t annoyed, improvement). ~ Chuck shaking his head denying the book, but saying yes (that honesty thing seems to be working). ~Lock-picking Sarah, with Costa Gravas surprisingly sturdy toothpicks (wonder if they are weapons-grade Volkoff-issue). Chuck making a stammering Sarah handle the Ellie-Devon caliente moment. ~ I’m not going to talk to you while you’re asleep. Never say never. ~What does one do with a homeless dictator (something we all ponder when we can’t sleep)? ~ Then there was the long awaited fight scene — awesome! ~ And I loved the communication scene with the Goya’s. We’re all about to die over basically just one big relationship problem. Chuck the mediator and Sarah the mediator apprentice to the rescue. Chuck’s Casey groan. It was fun.
In the jungle, the mighty jungle … there’s sweet, sweet jungle love. Who knew?
COMMUNICATION LOVE & CHANGE
Chuck and Ellie communication. I’m glad Chuck finally told Ellie about the mom hunt, but I wish he had told her the whole truth. It was nice that Ellie acknowledged how good he is at the spy stuff and how much he gave up, but I am beyond annoyed that she didn’t release him from the ridiculous promise. How can she clearly recognize that being a spy makes him come alive and persist in a state of happiness that he is in a job that forces him to be less than he is, just so they can talk about it? It’s time for big sister to grow up. (FYI, Ellie, it’s thanks to your little brother that there’s not a mushroom cloud over a city near you.)
As for Chuck and Sarah, he is trying to help them communicate better, something most couples could work on. If we fault Chuck for anything, it’s that he tries too hard. I love the new, open and communicative Sarah. It’s heartwarming to see her love move her to meet Chuck half-way. The scene at the embassy stake-out is classic Chuck and new Sarah at their best and funniest. Chuck’s awkward invitation to talk and his rambling description of the book. Sarah doesn’t deflect! She talks. She even offers to read the book. It’s funny. It’s sweet, and almost painful to watch. But when they actually make progress, we smile with them.
Change is a constant. Now there’s a paradox for you. Change, real change, personal change was something that Sarah managed to avoid as a spy … until the day she walked into the Buymore, and Chuck turned her world upside-down. (Interestingly, he described their meeting in the same way.)
The changes in Sarah since that day, especially since they have become a real couple, are breathtaking; but just keeping up with those changes has left her a little breathless. Life is good. She is loved and happy in ways she never thought possible, and she wants things to stay just the way they are. Why can’t we just be? We’ve all been there.
The conversation in the slime hole, shows just how far Sarah has come. The first epiphany is Chuck’s (and maybe I’m way off, here). Hortencia’s You have to do everything your way catches Chuck between the eyes. Sometimes the exaggerated faults of others serve as a mirror to show us our own mini version of the same faults. Chuck is not at all like the Generalissimo, but he has been doing things his way recently.
I love the teamwork and the overlays in this round of Chuck’s relationship mediation. I love that Sarah comes in hands-raised and talking instead of gun-drawn and shooting. She places her confidence in Chuck and stands with him. She’s not at all sure where the conversation is headed (or about all that training Chuck mentioned), but she’s willing to follow his lead as the conversation unfolds.
Chuck connects with Hortencia, who has probably never had a man understand her. Sarah nods her approval (already exceeding her usual level of participation in Chuck’s mediations). Chuck draws the Goya’s attention back to their uncomplicated first-love, which reminds Sarah of how good things are for her and Chuck right now. Hortencia strikes a chord with Sarah on the note of change. Silent Sarah adds to the conversation, expressing understanding to Hortencia and voicing her fears to Chuck. So, change ruined things. Chuck refocuses their perspective on the enduring strength of love. Life is full of changes … The question is, no matter what the changes are, is the love still there? His words find their mark in both women. I love Sarah’s Chuck, keep talking. The conversation comes full circle as a timid Sarah finds her voice and finishes Chuck’s mediation. Uh, that-that love that you had in the cave? That doesn’t have to change.
The episode is about rings, and several circles are closed as we move through the story. But what about the engagement ring? Maybe it’s just me, but I think I see a desire in Sarah for Chuck to ask. But that desire wars with her fears that “I DO” could nuke their relationship and destroy everything that’s good, or ever has been, about her life.
In the end, Chuck and Sarah have come to a new understanding of each other and the nature of their love. Chuck is giving Sarah her 30 minutes of silence. No more obsessing or doing things his way. Sarah’s fears have yielded to trust, her face after her confession betrays the pleasure of her decision.
I love you, Chuck. Nothing’s ever going to change that. If you ask me for real, then my answer would be yes. Change is an unavoidable constant, but Sarah has finally realized that love is the greater constant … the one that will anchor her through all of life’s changes.
Wow Thinkling, thanks for another excellent write up. There was so much to be excited about in this episode, I still feel warm and fuzzy! Apart from the intensely sweet end scene, Sarah simply telling Chuck to keep talking to the Goyas was a beautiful moment.
We’ve been told to expect a lighter tone for this whole season. I do expect a little drama ahead, but so far I very happy.
Dave, it dawned on me that the “keep talking, Chuck” is indicative of just how much Sarah has changed. Before she would have been primed for action, seeing Chuck’s words as a ploy or a stalling tactic until force could take over. This time she values Chuck’s method. She is 100% in lockstep with his course of action … as a true mediation, not just a manipulation. It’s stunning really.
WHO ARE YOU thinkling? That was an goosebumps post…
nothing really new, but written in a sense and in your beautiful POV… thx so much!!!
Thanks you for the kind words.
Thinkling – Marry me. I’m yours.
Oh… wait… 😉
One thing I have to point out – about the weapon’s grade toothpicks of Costa Gravas. In Sarah’s hands, darn near everything is “weapons grade!”
Isn’t that the truth! We’ve seen just how deadly a pencil can be when launched by Sarah Walker. But I did get a chuckle about the mighty tooth picks.
Oh, and she leaves the cherries on while she picks the lock … festive lock picking. Partay
I finally realized last night the one thing that had been bothering me (perhaps that is too strong a descriptor). We have Chuck and Sarah as a couple, but I dont’ think Ellie sees it. Look at the scenes at their apartment. I think it is good that Ellie referred to Sarah’s judgement RE: costa gravas, but Ellie took it not because of Sarah’s relationship with Chuck, but because she is a spy.
We don’t see any couple-ness from Chuck and Sarah. We know they are together, but there is no hand holding, no dance, no outward displays of affection.
FF to the scene where Ellie and Awesome are trying to find some privacy. They could have easily revisited the scene from the Weinerlicious (Sarah threw Chuck to the floor and was kissing his neck) and had Ellie and Awesome bust in on them making out. I guess my point is that outwardly, the relationship still looks like the fake one we’ve seen for 3 years. Why would Ellie see anything other than that, and now knowing that Sarah is a spy, for all she knows, it could still be a cover.
Funny you should mention that. Those were my exact expectations when the banging at the door started. Though, so sorry — for me mostly was pretty funny.
We see lots of couple-ness when they are alone, but you’re right, not much PDA. Chuck’s comfort with PDA comes and goes to suit TPTB. I agree, it would be nice for Ellie and Devon to see a little of the beautiful changes we see.
But Ellie did say “you have Sarah.” She knows it’s real, but there’s still a distance that bugs me some, too. Ellie is a little uncomfortable with the spy world, and Sarah is out of her depth in the real family thing. I still really want to see them develop a close friendship/sister relationship.
I guess my point is that outwardly, the relationship still looks like the fake one we’ve seen for 3 years.
I noticed it too. One would expect a bit more open display of affection. Cant understand why TPTB are nervous about some PDA.
I could be wrong, but I don’t think its a big deal; everyone accept Chuck and Sarah as a real couple, even Ellie has commented on Chuck having Sarah. Was it Thinkling suggested the other day we may see Ellie stand up for Sarah to MEB; it would be nice to see that at some point. But for the other part, I’m not a huge PDA fan myself; apart from holding hands I think most other such displays are a sign of immaturity. I don’t mean that to be harsh, its just the sort of thing you see in high school but not so much in other parts of life; so it always strikes me as a young couple or a new couple. TV is different from real life, but even so I don’t think we’re supposed to draw any particular conclusions about Chuck/Sarah displays except maybe Ellie isn’t sure of them.
Can’t take credit for that one, Dave, though it has its appeal. My feeling is that Sarah and MEB will iron out their kinks first, possibly before Ellie comes face to face w/ Mom.
Could it be, just musing out loud, that PDA really isn’t in Chuck’s or Sarah’s true makeup? Left to their own devises they are fairly private about their relationship, and the PDA was always part of the cover? That has a ring of truth to me.
There’s plenty of Private Affection on Display, just not much in public. Maybe Ellie needs to walk in on some of that.
Then, too, there’ve been very few settings where it was casual Chuck and Sarah hanging out with others.
Awwww – Chuck’s usually very respectful of women, except sometimes in his dreams. PDAs are not second nature to him, right?
I did rather enjoy the opening scene of Suitcase, though, where C&S are sitting on the Awesome’s couch together. He has his arm around Sarah. It’s sort of a comfortable nonchalant act that strongly bonded couples do unconsciously.
And she had her hand on his knee.
I liked that too Joe, sort of a relaxed unguarded moment.
Amy, thanks for bringing this up!
One of my ponderings this season is just how different is the real relationship to the fake one. We know in terms or strength of emotion not all that much but in the little things? Do people notice the difference between Chuck and Sarah now than they were before? I guess you sort of answered my question in a way…
We don’t have a scene in which Ellie comes by and Chuck and Sarah are watching TV together much like in Tooth. (P.S. Chuck has on many occasions come home to Ellie and Awesome watching TV together…it’s subtle PDA but one nonetheless).
Part of the reason I dislike Ellie no longer living with Chuck is this. There’s a disconnection not just with the relationship between Ellie and Sarah (which I think I’m becoming desperate for ;-)) but also between Chuck and Ellie. Yes we had our talk last week, but really how rare has that been? Yes Chuck can now talk to Morgan about his hand wringing re: relationship but wasn’t it Ellie that was the go-to gal for that? And ably so? (I mean apart from telling Chuck to break up with her in Beefcake—yuck).
I want my Bartowsk game night, part II with a Morgan vs. Sarah rematch on all things Chuck Bartowski.
I meant Bartowski Family Game Night.
Ditto! Sarah will so win now…right? haha.
It’s still going to be close with Morgan getting in on the whole spy gig. Could be a hoot with Morgan answering questions correctly that he absolutely should not know and honest answers from Chuck and Sarah that result in Awesome and Ellie going slack jawed. Would be a nice way to fill in a little Chuck and Sarah back story as well.
I love the “honest answers” idea. I don’t think the characters, mainly Sarah, are actually there yet. But it would be a hoot to have a game night where some casually answered questions include information about missions just thrown out as an ordinary part of their lives. Sarah: “I was really scared when your Nerd Herder blew up…” “worst Christmas was when I shot that detective I thought was going to spill your secret , so you wouldn’t talk to me all day…” or Chuck “I first knew we were going to make it when we took out those six gunmen while handcuffed together…”
It’ll never happen, but that would be so funny.
What also bothered me was that when Ellie wanted help and escape during the coup, for her and for Devon, she specifically asked Chuck, not Chuck and Sarah. Or even just Sarah, since she’s the professional.
Ellie may have gotten some description of Chuck’s abilities from Devon, but neither know about his Intersect abilities, right?
So new information 4.07 has come up that would pretty much negate Sarah saying yes. In fact not only would she say no but might actually dump her. Chuck is no better than Bryce and he is not mature enough to have an adult relationship. He should bump up that Halo with Morgan because he can kiss his cuddle time with her goodbye.
Don’t even bye a ring Chuck she might throw it back at you.
I am pushing for a breakup, Chuck has too many issues where his treatment of Sarah is starting to grate on my nerves.
He leaves the toilet seat up again, doesn’t he?
On a serious note, I’m not sure what problems you would have with Chuck’s treatment of Sarah this season. Is it his desire to talk with her, his decision to compromise on cuddling vs. silent time before bed, the fact he doesn’t want the relationship to stagnate?
I assume its because of the short synopsis released for 4.07.
Chuck goes on a rogue mission to avoid confronting Sarah after their first real fight; Ellie looks into the Bartowski family’s past.
http://www.spoilertv.com/2010/10/chuck-episode-407-chuck-versus-first.html#ixzz12KCRJBpY
I’m still not seeing what there is to get upset about even if the synopsis isn’t being deliberately misleading. They have a blow out and Chuck needs space and time to process. A rogue mission comes up, probably related to his mother and he doesn’t feel comfortable breaching it with Sarah at the time.
Of course, I highly doubt that Chuck goes on a random rogue mission solely with the purpose to avoid speaking with Sarah. My suspicion is that the fight relates to Mama B as does the mission. Given the tension there, he probably taps other members of team B to help him.
@JC- thanks for the link
@ChuckOff – Even with the short synopsis we have no context as to what is going to happen. No use jumping to conclusions about how Chuck is treating Sarah.
I would think if it is the fight that prompts the rogue-ness of the mission, probably one Sarah should have been on with him, then she will feel partly to blame for his actions and subsequent dangers he is exposed to.
Looks like the C/S fight will be in the early stages of 4×07.And it’s a given that it will be about Mama B. Zac Levi while speaking to ChuckTv.net (during their set visit) said that Chuck wants Sarah to trust him with regards to his mom, but Sarah is unwilling to do so – hence the fight.
I also have a sneaking suspicion that the reason Chuck can’t confront her is that deep down he feels that she may be right about his mom. So he does the guy thing, something stupid to make a point which in reality makes the situation worse.
Thanks for the link, JC. I’ve added the synopsis to the spoiler page.
re: synop. Man up Bartowski!
I think you may be over-reacting. I hardly see anything in that synopsis where Sarah would dump him over. Real fights happen to real couples. I think this is the set up for DR’s split up…ie being Chuck gets captured on this rogue mission, leading Sarah to realize that she can’t stand the thought of being without him.
Totally agree with you. And that synopsis doesn’t say anything about Sarah’s actions. Chuck goes rogue – that doesn’t mean Sarah is going to sit back and sulk.
Again from ChuckTv.net, someone asked Mel about C/S and First Fight – and she did say that TPTB were filming some scenes involving Chuck, Sarah, Mama B and Dalton. And if I recall she said that C/S were very much together and their fight happens during a fight with the bad guys.
And I would love to see a scenario wherein it’s Sarah who is saving Chuck from peril – she did that a lot before, but now it is much,much more. And we get to see lioness Sarah as an incentive.
P.S: Any rumor as to how long the split up between C/S will last?
I think you are right on. Real fights happen to real couples, and real couple really overcome and become stronger as a result.
The ep may very well end with Chuck captured and Sarah beside herself with worry, loaded for bear, and riding to the rescue.
Fear of Death may treat Sarah’s fear of Chuck’s death and Chuck’s fear of dying, having let down the people he loves: Sarah, for running out on her; his mom for not rescuing her; Ellie for leaving her. Could be great drama.
I would love to see it be a joint MEB/Sarah rescue venture, with Lioness Sarah earning MEB’s respect, and MEB proving her loyalty to right and her love for Chuck to Sarah.
Yeah I’ll agree “First Fight” hardly sounds like a catastrophic thing. Its easy to see some conflict coming over MEB, circumstantial info we have about her is very dark, and of course Chuck won’t want to accept that. I am thinking I’m completely off base in my hopes for an early engagement, but I still think we won’t see more than one episode all season where Chuck and Sarah end in a bad place.
I’m assuming, like you, that First Fight is another normal thing that couples face. But Chuck and Sarah’s normal is a beast of a slightly different color.
Still wish for an engagement sooner rather than later, but we may have gotten as close as we’re gonna get for a while.
Question: Is this thread about a “split” a confirmed spoiler or rampant speculation?
@alladinsgenie4u I haven’t seen anything yet about how long the split up will be for. But, thinking logically, if it happens in 4.08 like DR is saying it will (and for all his love of messing with people, he is usually right when he is straight up on plot spoilers) there isn’t a whole lot of time left in the first 13 to keep them seperated. Not if this is the last eps of Chuck and TPTB want to give a good satisfying ending.
I am saying Chuck and Sarah will be seperated the end of 4.07 and all of 4.08 and into some of 4.09.
How this Rob Biggle Guy fits in who knows.
I still hate that Chuck goes behind Sarah’s back and goes rogue but there is only one thing that can happen that will make Chuck pay for this. It is to get Sarah captured.
What if it’s a both/and? What if Sarah goes off to rescue Chuck and gets captured in the process. Then he has to go after her. Lessons would be ripe for the picking for both Chuck and Sarah.
Maybe he has to go after someone or do something urgently and Sarah’s lack of trust in him doesn’t help his case.
I believe DR said that they would be separated in 4×08 and not 4×07.But I am going to be one happy camper if they are united by 4×09.
IMHO, it’s not about payback or getting punished for some actions. We have to look at the context. Maybe Chuck’s instincts are right and Sarah makes the mistake of not trusting him.
I don’t think Chuck gets captured. I think Sarah does. She probably gets captured by Richard Chamberlain 😀 and Chuck has to learn how to be a spy from that Rob character. Fear of death is in the next episode so Sarah may be captured for two episodes. Maybe the fear of death causes Chuck to propose in 4.09 and they miss thanksgiving and Chuck brings Mama B and a newly engaged fiance to late T-Day dinner.
Chuck’s Rogue mission will lead to the capture of the love of his life. That would cause Chuck to grow up real quick.
Hmm. Good point. I had completely forgotten about the Rob character. But I am more inclined to hypothesize that it will be Chuck who ends up being taken away. Maybe the split up happens in the later stages of 4×08. I hope the synopses for 4×08 and 4×9 clear the air.
Don’t forget Summer Glau is in that episode with a supposedly larger role as Great. I speculated above that if Beckman finds out about MEB. Glau and Riggle could become temp partners for Chuck. A spy version of a 49B perhaps.
Again, I honestly don’t see a proposal until 4.13. So even if that were the last eps of the series, it would give the “prolgue” that Fedak and Schwartz like so much.
Wow – just listened to Mo Ryan’s podcast with TV Magee (can’t paste the link off my IPhone) and they each list their 3 biggest surprises and disappointments of the fall season so far. The last 15 minutes or so is devoted to Chuck. McGee classes it his third disappointment and even Mo sounds unenthused. I wouldn’t go anything like that far but there is a large chunk of “too much relationship” in their discussion.
I think Nick of the SWFG’s put it well on his blog. He said that Chuck used to be a spy comedy with a dash of romance – and so far this season it’s a Romantic Comedy with a dash of spying. I’m enjoying the season but I have to say I agree with that assessment. Roll on Mama B!!
Actually I agree too Big Kev. I do love the show, but I wish they would put more focus on the missions. It sounds like that may yet be ahead.
Absolutely. There is so much potential for a good spy/mythology plot this season. Done well, that will create more than enough issues for Chuck and Sarah to explore that would flow naturally from situations and story. There would be no need for the “manufactured” (but still entertaining) issues that have dominated so far this season. As you say, hopefully that is all ahead of us.
Ditto on that. I find much of the manufactured stuff entertaining, but would prefer things be more organic, growing out of the spy mission or even domestic problems. Maybe Sarah has a habit of leaving the toilet seat up. 🙂
Once again I think comes down to fan fatigue. S3 was all about the relationship supposedly with zero spy plot. Then we go into S4 and its still about the relationship and rehashed problems. Most of these things should have been explored last season, so we could get the majority of focus on MEB this season.
I really agree with that JC. If they’d spent most of last season telling the Chuck/Sarah story like they’re telling it now, the show would be in a better place all around. We’d see a more spy focused “A” plot with an established couple in the lead and little relationship story as a distraction. Sadly, we do have to acknowledge that these writers likely don’t want to tell the story that way. It does give me some concern that Schwedak really do think the story is over when the couple is stable. If so it would be very sad. I want sooo much to see Chuck and Sarah be the Charlses!
I with you on that Dave, that’s why I always talk about how the spy stories need to be better. You can only milk relationship drama for so long before people get tired of it. And I think we’re seeing the first signs of it now.
My worry is they’re unwilling or unable to write drama that doesn’t involve Chuck and Sarah’s relationship. They created this rich spy world and they’ve barley scratched the surface.
JC, I really think that problem can be fixed anytime they hire writers who WANT to tell the spy story. I’m not sure if that’s been done yet. Its possible it can’t happen until Schwartz himself moves on. Early on he said he had a “five year plan” for the show, yet Zach and Yvonne were signed to six-year contracts. Makes me wonder if someone was thinking from the start that the show could have legs beyond its original concept. Some of us might even like “Chuck Phase 2” better than the original.
Obviously the huge “if” there is if there is any market for the show after the original outline plays out in S5. (Oh, and I suppose I should mention the whole uncertainty over how literaly a “five year plan” is to be taken anyway!)
That’s why I was excited about Nicholas Wootton as a writer. He was a producer on Prison Break, which was heavily involved with spies and conspiracy. Now it wasn’t always great mind you but it’s spy stories were better than Chuck’s.
As much as I criticize Schwartz I fear if this show was run solely by Fedak. I have nothing to back this up, but my guess is that S3 was Fedak gone wild. If anything they need someone like Jane Espenson to balance it out.
I prefer Sarah being captured. Because there needs to be consequences of his actions. Him being captured he has been there done that. He gets captured all the time. But he never was responsible for Sarah’s capture.
Because if Chuck is captured in late 4.08 then the following has to happen in 4.07.
1. Chuck and Sarah fight he goes rougue and something happens.
Then in 4.08
2. Beckman is so furious that Chuck went Rouge he breaks up the Chuck and Sarah partnership. Beckman can’t bunker Chuck but she can remove his binkie. (Sarah)
3. Beckman gets this Rob guy to train Chuck to be a professional spy and Chuck goes on a solo mission and he fails. He gets caputured.
4. Sarah goes on a rampage looking for Chuck.
This could happen but if Sarah does get split up what are they going to have her do. Sit in Castle?
Regardless of what happens the Fear of Death in 4.09 is a direct result of Chuck’s rougue mission in 4.07.
If there is not a capture involved, I can easily see Beckman spliting them up as partners.
I dont want to see that happening because personally speaking I would find that hypocritical of Beckman. This from a General who caved in to Shaw’s assurances that he and Sarah could still be a team. Why does she do a flip flop on Chuck. One time he is labeled as invaluable, one screw up (with all the right intentions) and he is hell bound and forced to learn to become a better spy, hear baseless accusations of being not ready etc etc.
@rac2873 – I believe 4×08 is Fear of Death and 4×09 is Phase Three.
But that’s how the show rolls.
In Am Hero Chuck is getting his own team in Rome and saves the day. Then in Other Guy he’s not ready. Other characters view Chuck’s spy skill dependent on the plot.
True. The confidence other characters place in Chuck’s spy skills is generally inversely proportional to Chuck’s need for that Trust. The exception is usually Sarah who starting in the pilot often provided the extra push or faith that Chuck needed. That was sort of lost in much of the front 13 last year and I can’t help but think the argument and Chuck’s rogue mission without her is going to link back to Sarah lacking faith in Chuck.
I had the same thoughts but I’m hesitant to think they’ll bring up Sarah’s actions in the later half of those first 13. That’s a gigantic can of worms.
But Beckman did warn them rather strongly in 3.14 about letting their personal lives interfere. If they are doing just that, it’s not outside of Beckman’s character to drop the anvil. That could also tie in to the hints that DR left that the split is not of C/S’s choosing, neither wants it, seems to be externally imposed and why a new spy comes in to train Chuck.
So what if it is? Has it ever occurred to you that the rogue mission is something Chuck has to go on? Why does Chuck have to be punished for going on a rogue mission just because he doesn’t bring Sarah along?
And why exactly does Chuck’s going on a rogue mission have to lead directly to Sarah’s capture? Perhaps she makes the mistake of chasing off after him, or maybe his going on the mission is fortuitous, allowing him to just miss getting caught in a trap that would have otherwise captured his entire team?
Why does Sarah and Chuck having a fight and Chuck going on a mission without her automatically make him a bad guy worthy of suffering for his supposed misdeeds?
Agree with you here. We absolutely dont know the detailed circumstances of him going rogue. But it’s from past experience that we are conditioned to believe that it will all be Chuck’s fault whenever he takes a decisive decision (he goes rogue etc, etc.IMHO) TPTB should have stopped using Chuck as a doormat after 3.13. Hasn’t he become a hero – going through all the trials and tribulations.
Completely agree, I don’t understand this need to bash Chuck for one line of a synopsis. We have no idea what the fight is about or if anyone is to blame. I assume if it’s Sarah’s fault you want her to suffer for making Chuck go rogue right?
The same could be said for Bryce. Sarah did not like that so much did she. He went rogue on her and got himself shot in the process.
Chuck wants Sarah to be a partner in every sense of the word. To me a marriage is a partnership the ultimate bond and you can’t go rogue in a marriage. Well you can it is called a divorce or seperation.
If he doesn’t trust Sarah as his partner then how can she be his wife?
Sarah wants Chuck to trust her. Seems like this rogue mission, he doesn’t.
Oh so Fear of death is 4.08 then the split up is for one episode.
But I direct you to one huge difference between Chuck and Bryce. Bryce kept her completely in the dark – about being approached by Fulcrum, working deep undercover, stealing the Intersect etc.
Here we have the opposite. Chuck wants Sarah to trust him about what he is doing. They fight in 4×07 because Sarah is unwilling to trust him (she is right or wrong, that is a different matter). So my guess is that Chuck faces a mission of urgency, but he feels that going to Sarah isn’t helpful because of what happened before (i.e the fight).
Rogue simply means unsanctioned by the government. It would be a rogue mission whether Sarah was along or not. Chuck not going with her doesn’t necessarily indicate a lack of trust any more than him not going with Casey or Morgan indicates a lack of trust in them.
The important thing will be whoever is wrong admitting they were wrong to the other (real couples deal with this all the time). That and realizing they will always have each other’s backs, of course that’s a lesson they should already have learned; but TV being what it is they will probably have to learn that lesson several times.
hmm. Agree with you there. There should be an emotionally satisfying make-up after the fight and split up.
As I said below, TPTB will consider C/S as a continuous WIP. One week you will have some great progression and then the next week something happens that totally negates what happened earlier.
To be fair, real couples also need this lesson repeated from time to time. The truth is that their are going to be disagreements in most relationships in which compromise isn’t practical.
In Chuck and Sarah’s relationship Sarah is generally the holder of the more “conservative” position. If the all disagreements result in a maintenance of the status quo that effectively resolves the majority of them in Sarah’s favor. In an actual relationship sometimes disagreements will result in the maintenance of the status quo and other times the partner demanding change will act independently.
And Chuck and Sarah have shown definite growth over the course of the series. If there’s any doubt watch Helicopter and Suitcase back to back; safe to saye there’s a bit of relationship growth going on. At least we’re not at Homer Simpson levels of having to learn the same lesson every other week for 22 years.
@alladinsgenie4u
Agree Chuck was a bumbling fool in S3. Sarah has years of experience and Chuck should trust her instincts, Jill ring a bell.
But Chuck is going to do what he wants to do and because he doesn’t trust Sarah’s judgement he is going to go rogue without her. What is this loyaltly to his mother that he cannot show to Sarah.
If Sarah went Rogue without Chuck she would get destroyed by this fan base but Chuck seems to get a pass.
Sarah’s instincts were really strong with Shaw…
I’m curious as to why you always ascribe Chuck’s actions as to a lack of faith in Sarah?
Agree Chuck was a bumbling fool in S3. Sarah has years of experience and Chuck should trust her instincts, Jill ring a bell.
Her blind trusting of the enemy in 3.13 ring a bell? Where was the experience then? One might argue that she made a judgment call back then and was proven wrong.
This time,it is about Sarah trusting Chuck and not the other way around. So, why not extend that rationalizing to Chuck. He may make a judgment call- no need to fry him if he is proven wrong.
But Chuck is going to do what he wants to do and because he doesn’t trust Sarah’s judgement he is going to go rogue without her.
IMHO, it will be the lack of Sarah’s support that will elad him going on a rogue mission. Not the issue of trust.
If Sarah went Rogue without Chuck she would get destroyed by this fan base but Chuck seems to get a pass.
I dont know about others, but I love Sarah going rogue.
And it’s a given that she will go rogue only for Chuck – with or without him.
1. Shaw, Shaw and hey remember Shaw. And Chuck was right about Jill in end not Sarah.
2. What is this loyalty to her father that she cannot show to Chuck.
3. When Chuck lies to Sarah he gets destroyed by this fan base but Sarah gets a free pass.
It works both ways.
Because Zach said so in his interview. Sarah doesn’t trust him about his mom. They fight he goes on his rougue mission.
Touche on Shaw. That was pretty boneheaded of Sarah. lol
All I am saying is that you cannot have a fully committed relationship without trust. Seems like they still don’t trust each other completely.
Chuck going rogue by himself proves it. He did the same thing with Morgan in Anniversary.
Chuck is going to do what he wants to do.
So as to Marriage – Not ready.
OK, but that makes the trust issue Sarah’s, not Chuck’s. Sarah doesn’t trust Chuck’s instincts, they fight and Chuck goes on the mission without her knowing he’ll either get no support from her or be dragging Sarah along on a mission she doesn’t support. It sounds like you just want disagreements to default to Sarah’s position.
All I am saying is that you cannot have a fully committed relationship without trust. Seems like they still don’t trust each other completely.
For TPTB, C/S are a Work in continuous Progress. So IMHO, they will continue to play with these issues.
Chuck going rogue by himself proves it. He did the same thing with Morgan in Anniversary.
He trusted Sarah to stop him in his search.That’s why he kept it a secret.
Chuck is going to do what he wants to do.
That’s kinda harsh. Let’s modify that a little bit. Chuck is going to do what he believes is the right thing to do.
I am going to leave it at this. Chuck and Sarah are partners, friends and lovers contemplating marriage. If you lack trust in your professional relationship wether it be from Chuck’s or Sarah’s side then this is bound to affect other aspects of your relationship.
Maybe I am simplifying this but if I would never in a million years do this to my wife. You go in together or you don’t go at all.
Thanks for the friendly debate but I am going to back out now.
Let’s just say trust issues wasn’t dead, and won’t be for the forseeable future. But no sense in reacting now..it hasn’t happened yet. If and when it does, I’m right there with you buddy!
My gripe – why does it have to be “trust” as the only horse being whipped to death time and again. TPTB would do well to settle that. A mere synopsis generates so many various views – one can imagine how many more after the episode actually airs.
Okay I am not going off of just the synopsis. It is what Zach said. They fight over Mama B. Based on the synoposis, apparently this causes Chuck to go rogue and run away from instead of confronting Sarah.
This going rogue will directly or indirectly cause the split up in 4.08.
@rac – My bad!! I should have mentioned other tidbits along with the synopsis. Thanks for the reminder.
Maybe Sarah is so angry with Chuck, that when an adhoc mission comes up, he is afraid to go and face her ( he may be reminded of sharp objects and pain. LOL). So he flies solo.
Another thought – What if Chuck is temporarily reassigned to D.C in 4×08 as part of a disciplinary action with regards to his rogue mission.
Alladins because…
1. They’re spies. Bryce summed it best: you never know who you can trust…except a non-sly friend like Chuck.
2. Because they have history. Not only in terms of trust issues that has gone on during their relationship or during thr fake relationship but because or who they are and where they came from.
Have these two shown a propensity to trust each other when it’s life or death or imperative? Yes. But perhaps that’s easier in a lot of ways.
3. Conflict. There isn’t a lot relationship roadblocks for a new couple apart from infidelity, trust and communication. The other is being done very well the first hopefully never.
4. It make sense. There’s a separation still between interests especially safety interests and experience that IMO is showing their relative newness as a partners. Chuck has a single-minded intensity that’s almost selfish in it’s focus but Sarah also has a tendency for a patronizing, I’ve been through this before kind of mentality. Yes they work great together but that is less about trust so much as strength.
Having said that you know my POV as it relates to trust. I think I’ve harped on it enough lol.
I agree with your point but not so much in the Chuck/Sarah specific sense. I think since Honeymooners we’ve mainly seen a lot of trust between them both personally and professionally. They work well together on missions and often have a good time doing it. That is exactly what I want to see from the show and these characters. Its OK that their synergy is often flawed; both characters do have egos, and Sarah is experienced while Chuck is intuitive. It is inevitable they will occasionally disagree. I don’t like the writers using a story telling technique involving Chuck (or Sarah) rashly charging off in a snit to do things their own way despite the wishes of the other. But seriously we can all guess that’s exactly how things will unfold at some point. At this point I am willing to trust things will work out well in the end, and I really do expect to enjoy [most of] this season’s journey to get there.
I still don’t understand why people think Chuck on a rogue mission implies a lack of trust or betrayal of Sarah. Go back to season 2 and even then Chuck kept Sarah in the dark mostly to protect her. She didn’t like it, but I see that as his most likely motivation. A fight, probably arising from a mission gone wrong and Beckman finding out about the joint rogue mission they’re running puts both their careers in danger. Chuck, getting another piece of the puzzle, decides he can’t make Sarah risk her career given the state of things, so he continues the hunt for Mama B himself.
I’ll go one step further. Couch Lock is a rogue mission by team B that starts the chain of events that gets Team B benched and causes the fight that sends Chuck rogue (followed by Sarah and/or Casey and Morgan).
Thanks for the perspective and context Ernie. There are so many details and nuances we don’t have yet. Looks like we’ve had a 4 ep mini-arc for the relationship to develop, and next week launches a 4 ep mini-arc to kick the mom search into high gear. Might Phase 3 be the beginning of yet another arc … maybe the take down of Volkoff. Than a wedding in 13? Just thinking outloud.
I still have a question, though, about the much talked about “split.” Does that come from a reliable confirmed spoiler source or is it rampant speculation?
This split comes from DR. Yes he is reliable.
It is not a breakup though. Just a split and neither Chuck or Sarah want it to happen.
I think the split thing came from Magnus at the Chuckgasmic blog.
Sorry, rac2873. Didn’t see you had already answered.
@thinkling – The spoiler comes from a Chuck fan who has access to inside sources. So, you can believe that the split is coming.
@Ernie – I like your scenario. We are certainly forgetting Beckman and what her reaction will be to Chuck’s search for Mama B as well as Sarah and Casey’s support. I am pretty certain that Chuck’s solo mission wont be solo for long. Sarah will show up to save the day. But the intriguing part is why they split up – is it forced upon them by circumstances or they decide it mutually.
Thinkling, I think you are right about the arcs. My feeling was that they set up at least two major stories in the premier. The search for Mama B and Chuck and Sarah finding a new normal together. The first has been on the back burner since then, with a clue or two each epiode, and the later has largely been resolved.
As for the “split” I don’t think it’s a stretch to see one coming with titles like First Fight. Also remember how spoilers portrayed Chuck and Sarah were “in a bad place” or “on the rocks” or having a “communication breakdown” in episodes 3 and 4 and for the most part it turned out to be a few awkward moments (and one VERY akward moment) that were pretty much resolved by the end of each episode. That’s why I think this “trust” thing is overblown, unless you feel that Chuck not “trusting” Sarah to risk her life and career to continue doing the very thing they fought about and got them in trouble based on a hunch he knows the next step is a selfish impulse.
I don’t know much about the source of the spoiler other than a seeming penchant for stiring up controversy for attention.
Thanks, everyone for the info. I’m less confused now.
Ernie, I have noticed that the spoilers and episode synopses are somewhat sensationalized.
The title first fight doesn’t worry so much. This is normal. It’s the title Last Fight that would leave me pale.
I think Ernie’s on the right track here. Whatever sort of fight Chuck and Sarah may have, I don’t think the so-called “split” is anything personal. Chuck does something on his own to avoid getting Sarah in any further trouble is the most likely issue; a bit of Chuck/Sarah disagreement is likely nothing more than if MEB is a goodie or a baddie; and maybe some temporary reassignment issues thrown in for good measure.
Remember big picture issues here that matter a great deal. Fedak himself has said “Chuck and Sarah are a couple this season.” I believe it was Schwartz who went on to say they’d already “explored all the obstacles keeping them apart.” I think there was a business decision made between Schwedak and NBC that ensures Chuck and Sarah will be together. As I said before, I think one episode this season where they are “on the outs” in some way (not “I never want to see you again” just “why are you being a jerk” sort) MAX; maybe one other episode where they are physically seperated and struggling for reunion (you know the sort of thing that naturally happens in action/adventure/romance themed stories).
I think both Schwedak and NBC want to avoid a repeat of S3 where a huge chunk of viewers quit watching, and another bigger group was profoundly unhappy with the story. They want to get happy buzz back. That doesn’t mean they will abandon actual drama entirely, but I seriously do not see them using heavy handed angst like they did in the past.
In journalism, research, etc there is a saying that goes: consider the source. That’s all I’m going to say about that.
Dave it occurs to me you and I have gone full circle in a way. Last year before the season those same words were utterred by you and I. Mainly “they can’t possibly be that stupid” and they were. There was a moment in there where being burned turned us cautious, suspicious and sour but the feel good has worked it’s magic. We are once again hopeful and celebratory. Here’s for KNOWING it’ll last *raises glass* 🙂
*Clink*
Yeah its funny Faith, I remember last season trying SO Hard to stay optimistic until I just couldn’t deny what I seeing anymore. It left me very cautious and burned feeling between seasons. But I starting to believe again. Just as Chuck and Sarah have been building trust and strength with each other; TPTB are rebuilding there trust with us. So now I am more trusting, I think I’m more wary than I once was; but I cautiously trust I will like what lies ahead.
I have no problem with a fight. Evey couple has them. I am more concerned about Chuck running into a rogue mission rather than face Sarah.
He must be really frieghtened of her knive skills. lol
@atcdave:
I’ve always thought you had the clearest view of the show: It works best when Chuck and Sarah are in a good place. But I frankly don’t understand your confidence now as to the show runners’ intentions.
Logic and business (such as the TV business can be called that) is pretty unsparing: Episodes 7, 8, 9 and 10 are in the November sweeps category. The logic of how we know these guys tell a story and the TV business would indicate that if you are separating Chuck and Sarah (for any reason, be it personal, professional or both) in 7, you’re going to keep them apart throughout the entirety of sweeps period. So that means you might as well keep them apart in 11 and 12, right until the 13th episode, the last of the initial order. Which, by the way, is EXACTLY what happened in Season 3. Episode 7 (MASK) was the start of the arc that lasted through 12 (AMERICAN HERO) and had Chuck and Sarah the farthest apart. And even in Season 2, Chuck and Sarah in the November sweeps were separated by the Jill arc.
All the show runners promised this year is that no PERSON would come between Chuck and Sarah. They never promised not to separate them up for some artificial reason. Last year it was Shaw, an artificial a character as ever has been created. This year, it’ll be some artificial romantic or professional excuse.
The bottom line, IMHO: The show runners don’t see the show as most fans do. Most have wanted Chuck and Sarah as a romantic couple and spy team since COLONEL seemed to indicate that they should be together. The show runners have not wanted that. So after running out of PLIs, they put them together for a while, then invent some impediment to separate them (again, professionally and/or romantically), then bring them back together at the last moment again.
Learn the lesson of everything since COLONEL: The show that the creators write is NOT the show most want.
The Show runners said that Chuck and Sarah would be in a relationship all season. It was in the EW to start the season. That means no breakups.
Also if they seperate Chuck and Sarah for five episodes then this show is done. There will be no reason to watch anymore.
godot – i am not dave, but I am pretty shippersih in my POV – so if you don’t mind, I’ll take a shot at your ?’s. I am very optimistic about season 4. First, most of season 3’s dark arc ended with sarah and shaw together or in some sort of melancholy place (like chuck drinking or chuck alone in his batcave), so far this season, shows end with chuck and sarah together, often in very romantic settings, ones most men (and women I guess?) would kill for – right?
Second – I am going to go out on a limb and say the ‘drama’ generated by Chuck and Sarah in eps 5 thru 9 of season 4 will knock my shipper’s oar right out of the boat, it is going to be that good.
Third, joe mentioned the word confidence to describe season 4, my word is ‘trust’, trust between chuck and sarah as the story unfolds onscreen that will result in trust between skeptical fans like you and me and TPTB.
Hang in there – I think you will be pleased with the result – at some point one of the ‘dark’ S4 episodes will rival the honeymooner’s ‘shiperishness’ – I’m guessing 4.9?
Godot, Rac and Jason both provided excellent answers. I would add; I learned some major lessons about TPTB from the S3 debacle, and I think TPTB learned some lessons too.
I learned to take them at their word. Starting summer of 2009 right up into S3 itself, they consistantly promised to write and produce a show I would hate. I tried to doubt them, even going so far as to buy wild con theories about what Chuck and Sarah were “really” up to. But in the end they simply made a show I hated more than I ever believed possible. They leaked information that things would get better in 3.13 and they did. And they promised the back six would be more fun and they were right. So now when they say the tone will be lighter in S4 and Chuck and Sarah will be a couple all season I believe them.
Now TPTB also learned lessons. They went into S3 saying “the fans love our ongoing wt/wt”. They learned they were wrong. They thought the fans would enjoy the roller coaster ride with a “love parallelogram”, until they learned we really weren’t amused.
I think Colonel was a huge moment for the show. It was the moment when fans were ready for Chuck and Sarah to grow up and face their unusual life together. TPTB were somehow blind to what they themselves had put on screen. I would guess they had a master outline that said it wasn’t time yet. That was a bad mistake on their part, a REALLY bad mistake. They damaged the way many of see the show and our favorite characters. But people do make mistakes all the time, and ideally they learn from them. While I’ll never be happy with the stupid story they told in S3, I don’t believe they’ll repeat the mistake.
The pattern you talk about is really just one bad season. S1 and S2 both had some dramatic and intense moments, yet most of us were completely satisfied with the quality of the adventure and story telling. S3 was different; it was dark for too long, Chuck and Sarah gave up on each other for almost the entire front part of the season.
I hope we see a pattern repeat, that is the pattern of S2. I expect to see Chuck and Sarah together and overcoming obstacles all season. It sounds like there are a couple hard episodes coming up. I could really just watch Chuck and Sarah vs. the World from here on out. But TPTB have obviously decided to keep the relationship drama going for a while yet. I’m not thrilled, but I’m OK with that. I really do trust they learned from our response to S3 and we won’t see anything so dark again.
Yeah I would love to watch a story where they trust each other and it is them against the world. Looks like we have to go on the trust Merry-go-round a few more times.
I am still not getting a marriage vibe yet, they have not proved to me they now how to fully commit to each other yet.
Actually Rac I’m still fine with the marriage vibe based on what we’ve seen. The only question is the rumblings of trouble ahead. As Ernie mentioned a ways up the page, so far this season, most of the threatened trouble has been less than we were lead to expect (did 4.03 really count as a bump? c’mon, Sarah threatened Chuck with a night in together and a little chat; a chat by the way, that was funny and sweet when they got around to it). Now I do believe troubles may get a little more pronounced, but I’m still optimistic that we’ll never see a moment when Chuck and Sarah give up on each other like we saw in S3.
Thank you fellow shippers. Ditto, ditto, & ditto!
Chuck likes to avoid confrontation. He usually either hides from it, lets the other guy have his way, or (since he became a spy) fibs his way around it. Sooner or later he is going to have to deal with Ellie about his career choice and sooner or later he is going to seriously disagree with Sarah on something. This does not mean that they are going to break up like in season 3, it just means they might be angry at each other for a while, like real spouses.
AAARRGH that is not where i meant that comment to end up!
Sorry, ’bout that, Patty. Editing privileges is NOT one of WordPress’s strong points. I *could* give everyone those privileges, but then
I’d have to kill you alluh.. everyone would be listed on the right hand side as an author, and that would be a bit chaotic.As if we didn’t have enough chaos here already… 😉
Always follow the blog, but never got around to commenting. It is a very select group of people. I love the comments from you, ever so careful and, if it is possible to involve the public ends completely in love with the show. In particular, for Chuck and Sarah.
I believe we will see a reversal of roles, in the sense that we always saw the show through the eyes of Chuck, or rather, where we saw Sarah’s eyes, and they told us that she is passionate. As in fact it proves that it is now, and I think there’s more to come. I love that Sarah. Now we can understand it. Maybe now we will see things through their eyes. Sarah has a new position, she is still testing its limits, but the story is told that she is very beautiful. Before whom was Sarah. For me it overturned his personality when he joined the CIA, Chuck gave her a chance to learn about, and that is funny, he’s the one that does. It was not known, she did not know what he liked or needed, we see that by their actions, not actions and choices. Bryce, Cole, were not choices, they were simply there and not fit their momentary needs, she never thought about the future, until … Bartowski. Shaw seemed different, but it was not. Indeed, the sense of difference from the other guys is through time that Sarah was, she was ready for a new life, Chuck made his way with her. Shaw could have been, Shew, Shiwa, no matter, he had to face me. Or rather, he had the face of Sarah, was a mirror. He was miserable … she was miserable, unhappy, bitter. She wanted a backboard, I was so confused and lost. Chuck dug, dug, prepared the ground and in the end it was the edge of a cliff, then Superman saved her, I would think so if you were in that situation. She dumped him all I wanted to share with Chuck, including your name. And Chuck has no longer have to face it, he became a Shaw, and she wanted to Chuck. Shaw she had lots and lots. Many times I understood what Sarah was doing as a punishment for himself for letting Chuck go, and when she fouled her pristine image, I ridicuralizar herself for being so silly and believe in love. At this point, dare I say that we have seen through the eyes of Shaw, she had nothing special to him, he made her ugly, sad, melancholy. It almost destroyed my favorite character. So Shaw was not a choice, it was convenient. But when Chuck came back into his life, the history of the future again, Chuck once again brings hope, he is the real hero.
In his luggage, Sarah had just been collecting mania that for all these years of loneliness, mania maiden horrible at that. She could have a partner, but the wall was never broken, on the contrary, each new partner it only served to increase.
4×04, for me, worked as a watershed. She is afraid of doing something stupid and lose Chuck, and Chuck still does not quite know how to act around her, because she does not know. Sarah has never been to examine, discuss, plan, think, she would just jumping the stones of his personal life. Now listen to both the needs of each other and respected. Chuck gave her his thirty minutes before bedtime and she did what he (and book) have suggested. She spoke to him while he was sleeping. That to me was quite something for a girlfriend or wife, I imagine my husband talking to me sleeping, I apologize.
And for the first time, at least for me, she told us was thinking under pespectiva Chuck, is unlike anything she said or did. Egraçado, say you love someone should be the maximum expression to show feelings, is a happy ending of a movie. Actually I love was in response to three years of platonic love that the two lived. They are getting it backwards? first talk to children after marriage, after marriage proposal.
This conversation is completely outside the standard of Sarah, nothing here can match their nomadic way of life.
I suspect that Sarah did not know she was getting into when he decided to get involved with Chuck. I believe that his plans were to take things their way, of course I now have love, but contrary to what many see as weak Chuck, I see him as strong, a very special way. He stamped his foot and said its the way that things were not going to be her way.
And the change came at a gallop, I thought it was slow for me is accelerated, and it’s great.
She said she did not want children in 4×03, she said she was not ready. And since the wedding was going through your head, but the fear was still there. The proof is in the 4×04, speech communication about Chuck and the incident of the engagement ring she was greeted by a friendly way, she fled, but the fear was still there. She wants it just did not know how to do it, so that when she sees that the book comes to marriage, she says she does not want to get married but is afraid that there might be and make Chuck happy marriage, she afraid of change. The change has always brought bad things to her, and now she found a constant in his life who are afraid of losing. She is so transformed and so interested that he is right, which lets you chat with him during the mission of atravez Goia. And when she says that love of the cave need not change for me has been a yes. This course, for the patterns of interpretation that we use with the old Sarah. But … now she speaks, she is a talker.
when she said she loves the first time, or ever will come for him (tooth), or that it is your home (a statement was very intimate, including sexual content), though this has a very large attachment his person, she can do it anywhere. She drops the bag, but she insists that it is their home. is a beautiful statement, but still shows a disregard for tradition. Marriage is different, and by choosing her words she gave herself entirely, she said in the future, at all times, and most importantly, she talked about something she never had family, and she knows what to expect from a family with Chuck, he want the whole package. She liked to say, she felt happy to talk, she had to say, she changed, she now has someone with whom to share life, share what scares him most, and when we share our fears with someone, this is nothing but expression of confidence.
To me, she trusts him. And the reverse is also true. I see many comments from Chuck interaction with other characters, but she will always be different, is a higher grade. There is a fraternal bond of blood. Arguably this is not the strongest bond. When your heart beats faster and it recognizes its mate, called in-laws, no greater love than this. The only thing that compares is the love for a child, and yet are different feelings.
The fact that a child appears to Ellie, conversely makes the margin of the decisions of the life of Chuck and a new owner of the piece is coming, this is Sarah.
I guess we’ll never see an interaction Ellie-sisters Sarah, because Sarah is only open to Chuck. She respects Ellie, Ellie and respects you, she does not get. I have the impression that any moment she will explode with Morgan.
I loved this last episode because he told us many things. Many have talked up better than I could explain, but for me it mostly silenced the concerns of Chuck and therefore ours. Sarah will now always give us an answer, comes to play a mime. She said she loves him, something that has become constant. She said that this will never change (in other words it tells us that his love is strong). And he added that if he asks for truth, she’ll say yes. She’s ready to accompany him. She wants to be the woman in the relationship, the woman of his life.
The first episode showed me how much they were enjoying the relationship. They identify themselves as partners in all the meanings that the word mind. Sarah was very comfortable, happy, she was never so happy, she does not know what can be more. Then in the second episode, Chuck is what we call psychology pareceiro emotionally active, will start testing the limits of Sarah with the story of the suitcase. She is worried if this affects you, because she is comfortable with that, that’s all she knows, she is as bumbling emotionally, physically as Chuck was. So he teaches that this is natural, and she did not initially understand, but he does. He saves her, as when a teacher corrects students. This is the wrong way, I’m here to get through this difficult road with you, but you can find out yourself. And that’s what she does. She is not alone anymore, Chuck gives her the strength and courage to get where she wants. he is at the end of open arms. So besides her take her clothes of the bag, she took a picture. A piece of land wherever they are. She felt an unknown need, she wants Chuck near her, she wants the idea of comfort, security, and knew not to name it. And this is called home. And her voice that Chuck is her home, but is incomplete. Indirectly she is talking about Chuck as families, as basic as a particular place, Burbank, a physical home in Echon Park. And at the end of the episode, he adds the idea of home for her, but once he teaches and talks about children and marriage. When he says this, he ends up breaking all the margins of comfort to Sarah, he wants it in its entirety, without reservation.
She is shy, there is a change in behavior of the first two episodes. She tries to close, she’s holding a pipe in slippery, she does not want to think about it, because deep down she knows he wants it all. She is running away from Chuck, but knows he needs to talk to him. And through it all she wants to know, but baby steps, which is a big step compared to the principle of inertia in which she lived, but there are still reserves.
Chuck did not want to get married now, but he has raised the possibility for their reaction. It was an awkward situation between the two and he wanted to improve the communication situation that left the engagement ring. He did not intend to ask for it in marriage now. When she saw the book with alliances, she saw the application in front of you, like now. Sarah blew past him when he answered yes. It exploded with baby steps. I am anxious for their next triple jumps.
Chuck will now calm, their fear will leave the road and Sarah will want more. She thinks he does not know, I think she’ll try to say it, of course, a different way. I wonder if Chuck was agreed, would be like this conversation, I still think she would speak, not directly, but … she was restless. I think she will be more and more girlfriend now.
For me, it does not matter if they will engage in the next episode or the last, I know what will happen.
As for Chuck vs the first figth, I’m anxious because it was Lauren who wrote Lefranc & Rafe Judkins. I hope the fun stuff, like a good couple fighting and reconciliation. In a podcast with Rafe Chucktv, he said it will have an interaction between Sarah and Morgan. Good laughs.
What about the separation, Magnus said it will be a physical separation in 4×08, and will not be given a choice to Chuck and Sarah. He also says that we will see a great expression of love for Chuck Sarah, will not know if this episode.
I’m not worried, I’m anxious. I think the story that lies ahead will be exciting, and for those who do not like the novel, do not forget that the season is about family, and each episode tells us that the family of Chuck’s Sarah. I mean, he wants to build his family from it.
Jesus, this was big … I think I will not post.
I’m glad you did post, Joanna. I love your take on Chuck and Sarah’s deepening relationship and what they mean to each other. 🙂
Wow Joanna, you really had a lot to say! Thank you for your comments. I liked your observation Sarah is shy; it is sort of an interesting contradiction in her character isn’t it. She can be strong and in control in so many situations yet she really is shy about exploring a real relationship.
If you’ve read much here you know I’m a big fan of the traditional family model, but I think for now we do just need to be patient and trust things will play out in exciting and satisfying way.
Please write anytime, its always fun to read the thoughts or ramblings of another fan!
Pretty awesome for your first post! Hope you return for more.
Some thoughts 🙂
1. Neither of these two have had a real, mature, emotionally charged relationship. Imagine if you will they’re two blind people directing each other through a maze. It’s going to take more than just love, it’s going to take work…and yes struggle. At the end of the day they’re willing to work on it and that’s what matters.
2. They’re both contrasts. What I mean by that is yes Sarah is a kick ass, decisive spy but as a person she’s passive and fearful of change and decisions. She put Chuck off for 3 years (ok 2 years, the last was him) not because she didn’t feel the same or didn’t love him but because she has not yet reached the emotional maturity to act accordingly. Nor has she been willing to realize that which she has always dreamed of. Similarly Chuck has insecurities that has on many occasions held him back but amazingly enough he’s pretty capable in more than just Nerd Herding. Relationships though? What does he really know but friendship and disappointment relating to interpersonal relationships?
3. What happened with Shaw was in the past. I could sully myself and delve back into that but I’m happy where we are now and only reserve introspection of the arc that shall not be named (and assorted) to when I’m feeling especially dark and depressive lol. I will say though that you have a point with her and her relationship with him not being about choice. In my POV it’s about regression, nothing more.
4. While people may scoff at the passion we express for a fictional couple, I’m reminded with posts like yours why it is we care. Why Chuck and Sarah matter…more than what Liz has said in her great post…but because there are people like those here (including yourself) that make it so much more than words on a paper and musings of a Chuckaholic 🙂
I’m glad you posted too, Joanna. This is the one place where long posts are a tradition! Please feel welcome to join in anytime you like.
sorry to write so much, but they are part of the job. Make a living analyzing people, I think I got excited, I do not know what it was, I am ashamed …
And, continuing, although they are characters, they are very real to me. And apart from fiction, and professional interest, has something personal that I identify, I have a very loving husband who fortunately had the patience to wait for three years because I was emotionally constipated and very complicated.
I do not know what they did with this show, but he really is contagious.
And thanks for the welcome.
Next, I promise to be less.
Excited? Honestly, that’s the way I’ve been ever since I first saw Chuck & Sarah holding hands in Best Friend!
At first I thought that it was dumb. It was just me being a silly romantic over a sit-com on TV. Slowly, I discovered that more than a few of my friends were secretly enjoying too, and we *all* thought we were being a bit crazy. It became “our” secret that quickly grew into a club and a cabal and a fandom like no other.
It’s not us – it’s the show! It’s really *that* good.
Always write as much as you want, Joanna!
So, there’s no Russian-readers on this blog? I don’t read Russian but would really like someone to explain what Yakov Smirnoff is doing on that nuclear missile control panel label.
America LOVES Smirnoff, Waverly!
[And for the un-initiated, that was one of Yakov’s jokes from 35 years ago when he appeared in Moscow (Idaho!). But if I have to explain it… 😉 ]
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