Speculation: Chuck vs. The First Fight

Because Faith Couldn’t Wait.

Spies Like These

You know how Christmas morning you couldn’t wait to get to the gifts and tear through all of them at once?  Remember how your parents tried to slow you down?  Did it EVER work?  Every week or so we get a bit of what our parents felt as we watch spoilers and speculation slowly creep into observations and reviews.  At a certain point, you just have to give in.  The immensely positive reaction to Chuck Versus The Aisle of Terror and the hints of great things to come has me itching for an excuse to open the speculation post.  So here we go.  Remember there WILL be spoilers in this post, along with the speculation, so if you don’t want to be spoiled don’t go past the jump.

I guess it isn’t fair for me to blame Faith.  She provides me with a convenient excuse.  We here at ChuckThis can’t refuse her anything.  No, the real reason was a pre-review of next week’s episode Chuck Versus The First Fight that can be found at Televisionary.

I’ll note that the author, Jace, is a fan, so any review is likely to be tilted positive.  However, based on his pre-review of Chuck Versus The Aisle Of Terror, well, I’m excited.  Could it be that Chuck is about to re-invent itself yet again?  Discuss amongst yourselves.  OK, we’ll jump in too.

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About Ernie Davis

I was born in 1998, the illegitimate brain child and pen name of a surly and reclusive misanthrope with a penchant for anonymity. My offline alter ego is a convicted bibliophile and causes rampant pognophobia whenever he goes out in public. He wants to be James Lileks when he grows up or Dave Barry if he doesn’t.  His hobbies are mopery, curling and watching and writing about Chuck.  Obsessively.  Really, the dude needs serious help.
This entry was posted in Observations, Rumors, Season 4, Spoilers, Wild Speculation. Bookmark the permalink.

470 Responses to Speculation: Chuck vs. The First Fight

  1. thinkling says:

    LOVE the caption, Ernie!

  2. alladinsgenie4u says:

    That review by Jace has me on tenterhooks. Cant wait to read everyone’s comments and speculations.

  3. Faith says:

    Muhaha. Yoko hits again 😉

    Ok my burning specs!

    Jace said that people choose sides in this epi. I postulate that the side involves a team of Sarah AND Mary. Mary more than anyone will appreciate the difficulty and the amount of love Sarah had to find within herself to do what she needed (felt she needed) to do.

    The opposing team is of course Chuck and family.

    Intriguing doesn’t begin to describe it. Character growth Fangirl Squee!

    • alladinsgenie4u says:

      My guess on the choosing sides:

      Team Chuck&Mary vs Team Bartowskiless

      Also from the review, looks like Morgan will have something to say about the first fight between C/S. Will he say that to Chuck or Sarah? Let’s hope it leads to something positive and not end up being empty advice.

      Although, I hope that C/S will no longer be at odds by the end of 4×07 – I have a niggling suspicion that the angst will be carried over to 4×08.

      • jason says:

        which means CS will be apart due to angst for most of november’s sweeps, and what lesson did fedak exactly learn from season 3?

      • alladinsgenie4u says:

        @jason – Changes are bound to happen after the fight. Question is ” Is the love still there?” I am betting it will be, no doubts about that – unlike Season 3 where the love just disappeared for the sake of the plot.

        IMHO, things will definitely be positive(C/S relationship wise)starting from the ending of 4×08.

    • alladinsgenie4u says:

      Mary more than anyone will appreciate the difficulty and the amount of love Sarah had to find within herself to do what she needed (felt she needed) to do.

      So, can we expect to see a scene where Mama B takes Sarah’s side and talks down Chuck at the end of 4×07.

      Mama B: “Chuck, get over it. Your girlfriend did the right thing.”

      • Faith says:

        I expect to see a scene in which Sarah, conflicted about what she has done…and despondent about their fight Mary says something to her.

        They still wouldn’t be BFF but there will be a kinship and an understanding there. I think with the questions swirling about MamaB (which sounds like it continues) Sarah will remain suspicious.

      • alladinsgenie4u says:

        I expect to see a scene in which Sarah, conflicted about what she has done…and despondent about their fight Mary says something to her.

        As for me, I would love to see a scene where Sarah goes real bad ass on Mama B to force her to reveal where Chuck has gone on his rogue mission.

        Sarah: “If anything happens to him, I swear –“

      • jason says:

        what would be nice would be if mary answers sarah’s concers with, what can go wrong, he is the ‘best spy in the world’, to wit sarah dresses mary down, telling him the truth about chuck, no guns, big heart, brave fool, ballerina, trusting, loving, etc – at that point mary freaks out, we gotta go save him, and tells sarah everything – of course, all this only works well if mary is really a good guy, which is still on the table

      • Faith says:

        see that’s the thing…she needs to get to the point where she trusts him…even that which doesn’t make him a good spy and support it.

        She can worry about his safety, I wouldn’t want that to change but at some point just like Lois to Superman, you just have to be there when he gets zapped with kryptonite, instead of crime fighting herself so he wouldn’t have to.

        This is an awful analogy because I actually think they have the sort of relationship where they can both fight crime, together–but I hope you get my meaning anyway.

  4. Crumby says:

    Can’t wait! I feel like Aisle of Terror launched the end of the first 13-episodes arc and that it’s gonna be pretty good. Well, I hope so. So far I haven’t been completely amazed by the episodes but I’m entertained.

    This arc has great potential and Linda Hamilton convinced me, so I’m excited!

  5. Ernie Davis says:

    Well here’s what we think we know. Mary won’t talk to Sarah and Casey, at least at first. Chuck does go to talk to her eventually, but since I don’t see any of Team B with him I’m thinking he’s already rogue.

    Chuck goes to find Tuttle (Dalton) to clear his mother’s name. At some point Sarah shows up with Mary in tow, in cuffs apparently.

    It’s also been hinted that Ellie and Awesome are involved in the A-plot.

    I think that the fight doesn’t happen right away. Both Chuck and Sarah are walking on eggshells, perhaps making pointed comments on occasion. Chuck will feel betrayed both personally and professionally. Sarah for a change will be trying to get Chuck to talk things out, which he’ll studiously avoid (the gender reversal). Morgan’s advice, that the first fight determines the shape of the relationship, will make Chuck even more determined to avoid a fight until he has the upper hand and can prove mom innocent and himself capable of exercising sound judgement. The fight will eventually erupt either in a briefing or when Sarah shows up on Chuck’s rogue mission.

    Ellie will play a part. After Chuck tells her that not only is mom a spy, but he is again too, she digs into the family past to figure out what is going on. Some of Ellie’s childhood memories or interactions with mom and maybe an “uncle” suddenly take on new context. I say it’s Ellie who pushes Chuck to find answers, and it’s Sarah that is horrified that Chuck has gone rogue, essentially throwing all caution to the wind for his mother, again. Sarah now feels betrayed that Chuck shows his betraying mother more trust than her.

    Other fights? Morgan and Casey fight over both Alex and Casey’s use of “The Magnet”. Sarah and Ellie fight over Chuck and the spy life. And my longshot, but juicy favorite, Morgan confronts Sarah.

    • alladinsgenie4u says:

      But Chuck goes on his rogue mission to avoid confronting Sarah after their first real fight. So, maybe the fight goes down first and may continue later when Sarah along with Mama B shows up to help Chuck and Tuttle.

      And Chuck will be on his mission, so I am kinda expecting Morgan to talk to Sarah.

      A cool scene would be Sarah demanding answers from Mama B when she finds out that Chuck has gone on a rogue mission. Two strong woman facing of each other. Mama B would be confident that Chuck would get the job done and she may be unwilling to tell Sarah where he has gone. Whereas Sarah will only be concerned about Chuck’s safety. Lioness Sarah FTW!!

      As for Ellie and Awesome digging up some of the Bartowski’s past – do they go to the Bartowski’s Encino house or the Encino Public Library (j/k)

    • thinkling says:

      Yikes, Ernie. I hope that’s the bad news.

    • herder says:

      The whole Ellie digging into the family past interests me. Obviously as she was older when her mother left she would have clearer memories of what she was like, her different perspective can take her down different paths than Chuck has investigated and can lead to different findings.

      I can see Ellie finding out something about her mother then we flash to Mary and Tuttle and Ellie’s finding plays out in the present.

  6. joe says:

    Oooohhhh – Just read Jace’s pre-review. One word – WOW!

    If you’re even mildly spoiler-phobic, DON’T READ IT! Not that there are great spoilers in it. No more than we’re used to dealing with. But abstain because your appreciation of the next episode could very well be enhanced by the wait.

    • herder says:

      Didn’t read his pre-review of Aisle of Terror until after the air date, I think I’ll continue that policy and view the speculation on this page as the usual pre-episode speculation. But things do sound good for a top drawer episode on Monday.

      • joe says:

        You’re a smart man, Herder!

        I must say, even the clearly labeled speculations here tend to take on a life of their own, at least, in my head. I lose track of what I actually know vs. what I think I know is going to happen pretty quickly. They seep together.

        Knowledge is a fluid, it seems.

  7. atcdave says:

    I’ll predict now the extra week off is going to be a loooong wait!

    • alladinsgenie4u says:

      Think like this – we will have an extra week to drive ourselves crazy with all the in depth analysis, character behavior study and some rationalization for some stupid things that TPTB may or may not conjure up.

    • joe says:

      No fair, Dave. *I* was playing Captain Obvious this week! 😉

    • thinkling says:

      Does that mean you are backing down on your C/S forgiveness prediction?

      My hand is shaking, here. 🙂

      • atcdave says:

        Hah! no, I think we will know they at least intend to forgive and reconcile. I wouldn’t take bets on if they’ll be physically able to! They may already be seperated by Beckman or mission demands. But I still HOPE they will actually get to say the words to each other. Like they have a big fight that messes with the mission, they cool off and make nice, then General B blows a gasket and tells them they are some combination of reassigned/benched.

        I think it will be a long week off mainly because I think the story will have multiple cliffies at the end of 4.07 (like A, B, and C plot).

  8. godot says:

    Tuttle is an intersect. At least a rudimentary intersect on the level that Orion had.

    • alladinsgenie4u says:

      Hmmm. Now that’s some real out of the box thinking.Would be a real surprise if it is so. Come to think of it – why is Tuttle in the spy business? After all Schwedak in an interview have confirmed that Tuttle will be bad at spying. So, what does he have to offer? And what made him worthy of being Mama B’s handler?

      • godot says:

        Actually, it’s IN the box thinking. TPTB have a set roster of themes. An intersect when you don’t expect one is a recurring theme. And why is Tuttle a “bad” spy? He’s playing a game, just like “crazy” Orion did.

      • herder says:

        I was thinking that he might be the dread pirate Orion. That he was Orion until Papa B took over the role.

      • thinkling says:

        Really interesting Herder

        Does anybody want to make a wage on when/if Chuck will need a governor replacement and not have it?

  9. Ernie Davis says:

    One of the things I was going to mention, based on the photo of Chuck, Sarah, Tuttle and Mary. Sarah, the super-spy used to be Chuck, the nerd’s handler. Tuttle, the apparent nerd, used to be Mary the super-spy’s handler. Tuttle, the somewhat nerdy intellectual type does seem a lot like Stephen B, and Chuck. I hope they don’t do the “this is your real father” routine for the twist. Based on the pre-review stating that Mary doesn’t quite escape the vibe of being a double agent I’m going to guess that the twist is Tuttle is a double agent and helps Mary escape from Chuck and Sarah. It happens while Chuck and Sarah are fighting while on the mission, chaos ensues. Looks bad for the future of team B, though Chuck and Sarah manage to reconcile personally to an extent. One week break. All our heads explode.

    • alladinsgenie4u says:

      I’m going to guess that the twist is Tuttle is a double agent and helps Mary escape from Chuck and Sarah. It happens while Chuck and Sarah are fighting while on the mission, chaos ensues.

      Are Linda Hamilton and Dalton credited to be in 4×08 or 4×09? If not then your theory is very strong – that Tuttle helps Mama B escape at the end of 4×07. Poor Chuck again gets the short end of the stick in 4×08 and is separated from Sarah and stuck with another CIA agent. Begin Sarah’s mission – get back Chuck at all cost.

      Looks bad for the future of team B, though Chuck and Sarah manage to reconcile personally to an extent. One week break. All our heads explode.

      Hmm. Would be interesting to see Team B in the doldrums although our heads will surely explode if C/S do not come to some sort of personal reconciliation at the end of 4×07.

      • thinkling says:

        I think Dalton is in 4.08. Don’t know about LH. Really interesting about the escape. He wouldn’t have to be a double for that to happen.

        Agreed Genie — heads are already exploding from the possibility, well, mine anyway 😉

      • atcdave says:

        Yes that whole head exploding thing is my only concern. I look forward to anything else!
        I think we will at least know they both intend to reconcile, not sure if circumstance will allow for it (like if they’re not physically together.)

      • alladinsgenie4u says:

        @Ernie – The reason that I am doubtful of Dalton being in 4×08 is that we already have three guest stars for that episode.

        Rob Riggle – playing some CIA mentor to Chuck
        Richard Chamberlain – the Belgian
        Summer Glau – Greta

        Is there some sort of confirmation that he will be in all the episodes after 4×07?

      • thinkling says:

        Schwartz additionally confirmed that Tuttle had a connection with Elizabeth Bartowsky in the past but won’t reveal what. “We want it to be a surprise,” Schwartz said. In fact Dalton is signed for a number of episodes which could run beyond 7 now that the show has been given a full-season order.

        Fun Fun.

        http://www.aceshowbiz.com/news/view/00036323.html

        I can’t find a specific 4.08 reference. If I do I’ll let you know

      • alladinsgenie4u says:

        @thinkling – thanks for the link and info.

      • thinkling says:

        No problemo!

      • atcdave says:

        So it sounds like the cast may be growing again, especially if Linda Hamilton is along for the ride too. I hesitate to read anything more into than that, I look forward to seeing his first appearence this week.

      • thinkling says:

        I don’t want to jump the gun either, but LH and TD as somewhat regulars would be fun.

    • JC says:

      I had somewhat similar thought about Tuttle being MEB’s nerdy handler. But my spec goes a little off the rails.

      Before the season a lot of spec was that Dalton would be the Bryce or Shaw. My guess Orion was the Bryce and Tuttle was Chuck. So we have a broken genius like Tuttle who loses the love of his life to the Other Guy (Orion). He spends years becoming bitter and angry. He creates the persona of Volkoff in an attempt to get Mary back by any means. Playing both sides he knows all of Mary’s personal life and threatens it as Volkoff, but as Tuttle he offers a chance to protect them with Op Isis. Then he closes the op down and makes it seem like Mary went rogue to keep her to himself.

      So we get a parallel of C/S and what if type scenario if Sarah had left Chuck behind.

      Zero chance of happening but it’d be a crazy story.

      • atcdave says:

        I don’t know about zero JC, that sounds pretty plausible to me. Its so hard to predict this far out, but I would not be surprised if one of Schwartz beloved love triangles is at the center of it.

      • herder says:

        Maybe Mama B and Tuttle are supposed to represent what Sarah and Chuck could each become if they remain seperate. Sarah becomes frosty the snow b***** and Chuck becomes Tuttle the lost little boy spy. That what they give to each other makes them great and without that they could spin down a dark and dangerous path.

      • thinkling says:

        Interesting scenario … great plot, JC. My only problem with that is that Mary sends Chuck directly to Tuttle to clear her name … yikes, knowing that he is Volkoff, having shot him to keep him safe from Volkoff. That really would be twisty.

        @Herder: That would actually be very cool. Both the older and the younger could have some revelations out of that one.

      • JC says:

        @Thinkling

        Or she doesn’t know Tuttle is Volkoff. That could be reason why in twenty years she hasn’t taken down the organization. She feeds info to Tuttle or vice versa and she always ends up being one step behind.

        I just like the idea of what Chuck could have become had Sarah left. Plus I can’t get the notion of Chuck inventing a weapon the same season that the Big Bad is an arms dealer. It felt like foreshadowing to me.

      • thinkling says:

        @JC: True. That would work well, nice twists.

    • joe says:

      Ernie, predicting that our heads will explode after a 2 week break is no feat. It’s a given! 😉

      • Ernie Davis says:

        Joe, when I say all our heads explode I mean in a good way. 😉 Like mine did with the announcement Summer Glau would be Greta. And I believe it’s only a one week break.

      • atcdave says:

        Its one week off, which makes two weeks between episodes. That’s why some of us keep calling it two…

    • herder says:

      Things have been pretty quiet on the intersect front, except for Mama B saying that she knew Chuck has the intersect there has been almost nothing about it which is odd considering that the show is about a supposedly ordinary guy with a computer in his brain.

      Mama B probably would have known that Stephen was working on the intersect when they were together, if Tuttle was her handler then would he have known too. Would she have told him that Carmicheal/Chuck has it now. Could the intersect be a weapon that Volkov would be interested, might that be why Mama B supposedly killed him while Volkov was monitoring the meeting with Freddy Krueger.

      Maybe the twist is that Tuttle has turned and tries to get a living intersect to Volkov and Sarah and Mama B have to cooperate to save him.

      It just seems kind of odd that the intersect, getting it, learning to live with it, getting rid of it, downloading it again, learning to control it and survive it’s effects would be a fundemental part of the first three seasons and then nothing is season four. It’s like the dog that didn’t bark.

      • atcdave says:

        I’ve noticed that too Herder. I think some of that is just natural, as Chuck becomes more capable he might need the intersect less. But its played almost no part in the last two episodes.

      • thinkling says:

        I’ll be pretty surprised if Volkoff isn’t after the intersect in some way before this is over.

        I like that it is functioning seamlessly now, but it does seem odd to be so silent after so much noise for so long. I guess it’s working the way it’s supposed to, so it’s not the focus of every show now.

      • thinkling says:

        Going back to a more benign topic: I think the flashes have become an accepted part of Chuck. They are smooth and not such a big deal anymore. So I was just thinking back … here’s the flash score card, as best I can remember. If someone else has any to add, feel free.

        Anniversary … 2
        Suitcase …… 2
        Cubic Z ……. 2
        Coup d’Etat … 5
        Couch Lock …. 1
        Aisle ……… 0

        There wasn’t much he could flash on in Aisle of Terror. It would have been kind of fun for him to flash, in front of MamaB, on the picture of Wheelwright. And it would have been fun for him to have a weird flash under the influence of the toxin, but basically there wasn’t much of an opportunity. Maybe they don’t want to overdo the flashes every week.

      • atcdave says:

        I suspect we’ll just see less of it now that he’s “mastered” it more or less. I always prefer when Chuck uses his wits anyway. I hadn’t realized Coup d’Etat was so flash intensive!

      • thinkling says:

        See, it’s so low key and “normal” that we don’t even really notice anymore. It is nice to see him not straining to flash all the time … and doing lots of stuff without it.

  10. joe says:

    This is going to be the most active thread for a while (I can tell!), so I’ll put this here. It’ll also be in an update to the Ratings Post.

    Yvonne asks YOU to vote!

  11. jason says:

    b4 the season started, I wrote something for this site called 20 ?’s. I stated the reason for writing these ?’s, was so I could use them to evaluate how well the season did in my estimation, or vs my original thoughts. One of my ?’s was what will be the nagging topic after 5 or 10 episodes. Here we are at the end of 4.6, the nagging topic is relational CS angst generated by a no win script. I call that extraordinarily stupid, boring, and completely lacking creativity. What is even more remarkable, is the actual spy adventure is awesome, TPTB had no need to write the CS no win relational angst. OK – enough, I said my part, carry on, sorry for being so one minded.

    • joe says:

      Jason, not to drag you further along a path you do not wish to travel, but I’d like to examine this.

      First of all, I’m not sure what “the nagging topic” (which you define as “Relational CS Angst) means to you. I must say that I don’t feel any angst the way I used to between C&S. I used to work that they’d play their little WT/WT games way beyond my endurance, but clearly that’s not going on now. I’ve been dreading the idea of a major fight between the two since the season began, but now that we’re here, I’m as confident as ATCDave that this is something they need to face. It’s something that *will* be resolved fairly soon and leave them in a much more secure place. So I don’t quite see that as angst the way we use to talk about it.

      [As an aside, what I am seeing is a great deal of maturation, especially for Sarah. I certainly didn’t expect *that* here – I thought she *was* fairly mature before. Now, I’m not so sure!]

      “Angst” always was one of those very hard to define terms; it meant different things to different people. Even so, I’m not understanding how you’re defining “nagging” in this context. Is it just that we’ve been talking about MEB in the story for 7 weeks now? Or it is something else?

      Just an invitation to elaborate, Jason!

      • jason says:

        cs together in 4.7, 4.8, 4.9 solving the volkov, mama b mystery, no first fight has no angst, all of the adventure still is there, only better, more focused, one that universally would be looked forward to and watched – in earnest.

        they had it all going, 100% on board, then screwed it up with the last scene when they introduced ….

        no win angst – my mom is carrying a teddy bear that the mean witch stole from my sister, who is waiting to meet our mom for the first time in 20 years, when all of a sudden my gf leading a swat team, snatches her and arrests her – so now we gotta have a fight, even though we are epically in love – reminds me alot of my gf asked me to shoot someone, if I don’t we can’t be together, if I do, she will hate me, but more or less either way she is going to run away to dc to become the mistress of her boss, who apparently could care less about her, and she appears to like even less

      • joe says:

        Ah, I think I start to see what you mean. That was a good, clear example.

        Well, the show has always been about those inner conflicts – do you (Chuck) want a normal like as a drudge in the Buy More or a life of adventure with Sarah? Do you (Chuck) want a life of adventure or do you want to be honest with everyone who’s important to you? You you (Chuck) want to believe in your mother or the love of your life?

        They’re meant to be questions that should bother us to some extent, mostly because we face them in our lives, if not so dramatically and only in little ways.

        Not pleasant to dwell on too deeply for too long, I’ll grant. “Too” is, of course, different for all of us. Hopefully the humor and adventure part will balance out the drama part for you, Jason.

  12. Crumby says:

    I feel like there is some overreaction over this. No offense to anyone.

    Sure the end is angsty, and the next episode is called First Fight and Chuck will go rogue alone. But CS might reunite very soon in the episode, or at least before the end. The time they are in a “bad” place might really not be that long.

    Plus the couple has been well established and reinforced over the last 5 episodes, I really don’t feel “scared” about what happen between CS. I’m pretty confident about the fact CS will make it work.

    So, of course their playing the relationship angst again, but MamaB being a spy and coming back into Chuck’s life? Of course it creates some tension between CS.

    Once this figure out, they can be Chuck and Sarah vs. the World. Unless there’s other spies running in the family?! 😉

    • atcdave says:

      I mostly agree Crumby. I do feel some frustration that TPTB keep coming back to relationship angst “as a dog returns to its vomit.” I really don’t need any of that. I think it was fitting and well used this time, and I expect it to be resolved quickly. I wish TPTB could learn some new story telling tricks, but at least this time it fits the situation.

    • thinkling says:

      I agree. They are solid, and it’s a very reasonable fight for them to have. But TPTB angstified it (how’s that for a word?) the way they did it: dramatic mom-nabbing with Chuck frantically trying to save her and unmasking one of the abductors … Sarah. Then, to be continued. Come on … they sort of pushed the envelope a little there, don’t you think? Really to their detriment, b/c it detracts from the spy story.

      Good story — over angstified execution.

      More spies? I hope not. Too many spies spoil the mirth.

    • JC says:

      Overreaction no, Tiresome Yes.

      Its the same way people reacted to the fluffy relationship issues brought up at the beginning of the season. This is first time since S2 that the relationship feels natural but its just another in a long line that they keep using for tension. They went to the well one too many times for some people.

      I also see it as a reaction to S3. Will they actually address the issues brought up or will they go for the most angst ridden story while ignoring the issues.

      I’m looking forward to it but I also understand some fans hesitation and dislike.

    • Faith says:

      I had a somewhat similar conversation with some chuckaholics pre-Aisle. The idea is where will conflict come from. Obviously we can all agree that without conflict there is no story. And so it seems there are two mentalities: Chuck and Sarah against the world and an internal one.

      Admittedly I’m not one to scoff at a “Chuck and Sarah against the world” type of conflict but I find I’m also enjoying conflict like this that is yes…angst but organic (and if you subscribe to my theory festering angst).

      To me where this season differs from last is not just the way things are done, explored…but rather the spirit at which they are done. I don’t have a single doubt that this will lead to great things for Chuck and Sarah; that they will come out of this stronger, more dedicated to one another and infinitely more committed to one another. I can’t honestly say I thought the same last season. And for that I’m more than thankful.

      I jokingly said yesterday that we can only hope this conflict will lead to a whimsical little make up of epic proportion but honestly I think it will. But one that reverberates and strengthens their bond (fixing a fundamental problem and all ;-)) in ways that Honeymooners and Colonel could not.

      • alladinsgenie4u says:

        but I find I’m also enjoying conflict like this that is yes…angst but organic (and if you subscribe to my theory festering angst).

        Same here. But the thought/fear/previous bad experience(season 3) that TPTB will again stretch it out for a prolonged period is what tempers my enthusiasm. I believe “cautiously optimistic” is the watchword for me.

      • JC says:

        “this conflict will lead to a whimsical little make up of epic proportion”

        Chuck vs The Balcony, a Romeo and Juliet type of episode without the suicides of course.

      • alladinsgenie4u says:

        @JC – Let’s hope it doesn’t take them that long to make up.

      • Ernie Davis says:

        Two words. Makeup sex.

      • Faith says:

        Epic Ernie. Epic.

        Makeup sex marathon is more apt 😉 LOL.

        In all seriousness I’m thinking a proposal that trumps all proposals (and maybe the 30-45 minutes missing from suitcase, revisited *hint TPTB hint*). That is my epic.

      • alladinsgenie4u says:

        All in favor say “Aye!!”

        *huge, deafening roar of uncountable ‘Ayes’ heard*

      • alladinsgenie4u says:

        @Faith – My epic meter includes both the make up sex and proposal. What can I say, I am greedy.

      • Faith says:

        LOL I was wondering which you were aye-ing about. Makeup sex? Makeup sex marathon? Proposal? Suitcase missing 30-45 min revisited. All of the above?

      • thinkling says:

        Yes, please. 😉

      • JC says:

        @genie

        I’m sure they’ll make up before that. But there’s still that forced separation which probably lasts two episodes. Then you have Thanksgiving, everyone reconnects and works out their problems. So Balcony is your epic romance one.

      • Ernie Davis says:

        I keep telling you guys, it was more like one to two hours missing from Suitcase. Fist you work up an appetite (ahem), which leads to raiding the fridge for leftover Chinese. Of course that doesn’t hold you, because, hey. Chinese food. So the fridge is raided until the whipped cream/chocolate pudding is found, which leads to the inappropriate use of said product, and the kitchen counter, and table, and floor. Possibly the sink too. Well that leads to the need for a shower, which as you know showers get steamy, till you’ve run out of hot water. Then you finish your “shower” as quickly as possible followed by the cuddling.

        Hellooo. It’s all in the Hero’s Journey.

      • alladinsgenie4u says:

        Thanks Ernie – now you have given us something to fill in those missing two hours.

      • joe says:

        Now *I* need a COLD shower. Sheesh! 😉

      • Faith says:

        LOL you’re making me want to propose again Ernie 😉

      • Ernie Davis says:

        Heh, Hero’s Journey just got a lot more interesting, eh? 😉

      • Ernie Davis says:

        Remember Faith, this is Chuck and Sarah. I’d throw out my back or pull something vital in the first 10 minutes. At least I can still write. 😉

      • Faith says:

        Chapter 12, Heroes need loving too.

        Chapter 13, the hospital. Nurse play, nice.

        LOL.

      • Ernie Davis says:

        Family blog…family blog, don’t think of nurses uniforms. Don’t think of Sarah in a nurses uniform. Besides, they all wear scrubs, yeah, that’s it…scrubs. Ellie in scrubs (damn!)

        Touche, now I wanna propose. 😉

      • atcdave says:

        I’m just glad Ernie is the guru on the Hero’s Journey.

      • thinkling says:

        I thought I read Hero’s Journey. I must have missed something … or this is Vol ii

  13. Rac2873 says:

    I am so tired of Morgan’s know it all attitude about relationships. This is the same guy who created rules for Anna. This advice he gives Chuck is freaking stupid. Your First Fight does not do that. They have been together for how many months before their first real fight anyways.  

    If Chuck trust his mother who abondoned him and lied over his loving girlfriend then I will be severely dissapointed. Also something else Jace said that got me annoyed. I won’t spoil it but I think after this I am not going to be a fan of Mr Bartowski.  

    Why do they have to rock the boat and change what I love. If those two don’t trust each other then they both need to grow up it’s not like they cheated on each other. 

    If Mama B was so deep undercover then Volkoff would have been captured  or they would have known where he was. Casey and Sarah couldn’t find Volkoff in the Anniversary. 

    My level of excitement for this one is much less than any episode this season.  

    • atcdave says:

      Okay, I don’t mean to cause trouble I’m just wondering. If we put Rac and RobertH in a room together would they explode or cancel each other out!

      Just having fun guys, talk about complete opposite opinions, and yet you both end up unhappy with the same situation.

    • JC says:

      I think your forget that his loving g/f has lied to him repeatedly and twice almost abandoned him. So lets not make out Sarah to be some angel.

      If Chuck didn’t risk himself to prove his mother’s innocence then he’s not the Chuck the audience and Sarah love.

      And I really don’t understand this need to bash either character before it airs. Leading up to this episode people were bashing Chuck because they thought he was going to lie. Whoops we saw how that turned out. Lets see what happens before we get the stones ready.

    • jason says:

      rac – jace is pretty much the shill for schwartz this season the way sepinwall was used last season, my guess is sepinwall told him to fly a kite, after the story made sepinwall out to be a fool, jace is pretty much spewing forth the same mindless drivel, but sure, more than likely everything will be ok with CS reasonably soon

      thing is the fan base is not a bunch of 11 to 14 your old tween girls, it mostly is men and very smart savy educated women, this type of garbage got old last season, and will cause the show to lose some fans if repeated. My money says it won’t repeat, and will be fixed soon, and will be stronger than ever.

      I wonder out loud how many scenes in 4.7 thru 4.9 CS will be on mission without each other? 12 mission scenes, 6 without each other, 12 of 12 without each other, 1 of 12 alone, 3 of 12, who knows, that will be a pretty key test of how the stupidity of what they pulled at 4.6’s end ultimately sells.

      • atcdave says:

        Now I agree with most of this Jason. There are scenarios where separating Chuck and Sarah is completely acceptable (like especially if it means Sarah reverts to lioness mode on a rescue operation), so the real trick in the next few episodes is to use the separation period wisely and not just frustrate fans again like last year. Part of the tragedy of S3 is they’re on a short rope now.

  14. kg says:

    I’m inclined to think that the term fight is merely a reverse euphemism partially designed to intrigue the fandom and cause the folks to think matters are worse than they actually are.

    Unlike season three, everything supposedly major leaked in advance has not been close to what the hardcore fans have expected or even feared.

    Chuck is naturally upset and feels somewhat betrayed by the actions of his supposedly trusted girl friend.

    Obviously Chuck still loves Sarah deeply. I read somewhere here asking the question if the love is still there? Anything to the contrary is purely ridiculous. And whether one agrees or not, Sarah’s actions were out of unconditional love for Chuck.

    Therefore, I don’t believe Chuck blows up and has a knockdown, drag-out argument with Sarah. Now, for those who have accurately suggested the rare times he has in the past, the circumstances were different. Although Chuck had loving feelings for Sarah, in his mind, they were never a real couple and I think his real feelings and frustations surfaced in anger partly because he felt he had nothing to lose.

    Chuck does not want to lose Sarah. Chuck, although angry, will not want to say something hurtful he might regret. Remember these two are admitted “crappy communicators.” His insecurities will overwhelm his anger and as the synopsis suggests, he will run and avoid her. Now, he may also separate from her on a rogue mission he believes he needs to undertake to prove his mom’s innocence, but I also believe it provides him the perfect excuse to avoid Sarah for some of the reasons I have alluded.

    • alladinsgenie4u says:

      Obviously Chuck still loves Sarah deeply. I read somewhere here asking the question if the love is still there? Anything to the contrary is purely ridiculous. And whether one agrees or not, Sarah’s actions were out of unconditional love for Chuck.

      hmm. that was me – Changes are bound to happen after the fight. Question is ” Is the love still there?” I am betting it will be, no doubts about that – unlike Season 3 where the love just disappeared for the sake of the plot.

      • kg says:

        You’re right Genie. That was awful. They couldn’t take their eyes off of each other, but otherwise just gave up.

        At least in the first two seasons we had those precious moments of cuteness and playfulness.

        They settled for two people neither one had any business being with. At least with Jill and Bryce, there was a history with each before we knew the characters and before they knew each other.

      • atcdave says:

        I’m quite sure they repeat those mistakes again. Just wish I could get some brain bleach for last season.

      • alladinsgenie4u says:

        @Dave – As for me, I practically emptied out all of the brain bleach stocked at the local pharmacy during the Misery Arc. True Story.

      • thinkling says:

        I would be afraid to use brain bleach.

        Is that like getting in touch with your internal blonde?

      • atcdave says:

        We’ll never know, apparently Genie used it all.

      • alladinsgenie4u says:

        @thinkling and Dave – LMAO.

      • thinkling says:

        Well, that’s good b/c I need to keep all of my little gray cells.

      • herder says:

        Well I think that you have answered the question of what happened last year, Chuck was drinking brain bleach at the end of Natcho Sampler. Next episode things really started going off the rails and didn’t recover until Other Guy. The villain, brain bleach.

      • alladinsgenie4u says:

        @thinkling – to be honest, I still retain the use of my grey cells – well, mostly. But others have commented that sometimes I do tend to act like a certain “Sam Walker”.

      • thinkling says:

        He must not have read the fine print: Do not use brain bleach if you are pregnant or have an intersect in your head.

      • alladinsgenie4u says:

        @herder – Chuck may have been hooked to brain bleach. But what was Sarah’s poison?

      • thinkling says:

        @Genie: Sarah’s was iodine.

      • Faith says:

        Wood glue and varnish. That stuff will mess you up!

      • alladinsgenie4u says:

        I was thinking about sap derived from trees, but I see that Faith’s suggestion holds more water.

      • thinkling says:

        I was going for iodine for its red quality.

  15. Rac2873 says:

    Well they will get over it eventually but things will never be the same or something to that affect. I might be in the minority but I like when they are happy in love and are a team.

    Lets just say with the week I had the last thing I want to see is a rift between Chuck and Sarah and leaving it where the trust is broken. I watch because Chuck entertains me but it also makes me happy. I lived with three seasons of angst and we have to go back there already.

    Maybe it is just a reflection of my horrendous week but If Chuck is going to be pushing the angst button I don’t think that will be the cure to my horrendous week.

    I may watch this one after I get some feedback on it. I don’t need anything else to annoy me.

    • alladinsgenie4u says:

      You got to keep the faith that things will eventually work out and C/S will come out of it all the more stronger. It’s the only way you will endure whatever TPTB throw at you.

    • atcdave says:

      Rac I really think this will mostly be fun. There will certainly be some tension early, but I still bet Chuck and Sarah will be okay by the end of the episode, now there will be fallout last until Thanksgiving; but we will know Chuck and Sarah are okay with each other.

      • timlay says:

        From everything we are reading its clear they are pushing the reset button and wrecking the relationship again. I would be very careful not to listen to the cheerleader critics we saw how some critics last year were so close to the show that they lost their critical abilities and the show was nearly cancelled because of the rubbish story.

        While I am no fan of sarah the show is better when the relationship is ok and team bartowski is fine. I guess i am of the chuck and sarah vs the world camp.

        While I am sort of looking forward to chuck calling sarah out on her past and present behaviour the key will be is how long they are on the outs. I will be willing to bet if they are out for 2 episodes or more you will see a drop in viewers like we need after 3.7 and 3.8 and peoples tolerence is much lower with TPTB.

        I know if they are out in 3.8 thats it I will stop watching for good and just not bother. What I find really funny is they want us the fans to vote for cover of TV magazine just when they do the thing they promised the fans they would not do that is split them up as a couple. Me I have not voted why should I keep them in a job.

      • atcdave says:

        timlay, they did say Chuck and Sarah are together this season. The season is just getting started. Until we get proof to the contrary, I’m inclined to believe them. So far, all we know for sure is one fight over a legitimate issue. I agree doing this as a cliffie was probably a foolish risk on the part of TPTB, but I still think we’ll be happy with how things work out.

      • Joseph (can't be Joe) says:

        timlay – Welcome to the hangover from S3. 😉

        Have some Chinese food, it’ll get better.

      • timlay says:

        chinese food – drool love chinese

        yes we will see what happens like i said i am actually looking forward to chuck having a go at her and standing his ground for once. He needs to become her equal and she needs to understand that.

        The key thing is how long this goes on for, we no longer have the viewers to upset and yes season 3 has made everyone sensitive. That was such a bad season, it did alot of damage. Thankfully so far this is a better season we will see what they do with this.

        Thank you everyone for not jumping down my throat. This is why i started to post her as opposed to other fan sites. You really are willing to see other points of view.

      • atcdave says:

        I can’t speak for what happens at any other site, but I think one of the lessons we learned here was about taking turns talking each other off the ledge!

  16. SarahSam says:

    Damn. Chill guys, It may be complicated but it’s gonna be Ok. No C/S means no show. I’m sure we will all be entertained and worse case we can discuss it on this awesome blog.

    • joe says:

      Awwww, thanks, SS. But I’m not concerned. I see about 100 comments here ATM, and for the most part, they’ve left me in stitches! People have been in SUCH A MOOD! today 😉

      And really, the concerns are welcome too and have been pretty well stated. We don’t mind ’cause nobody’s carried it to extremes yet.

      • Faith says:

        Right. Saying they need to break up isn’t extreme enough for you Joe?

        Just messin with ya haha.

      • alladinsgenie4u says:

        @Faith – Ok! Now I am taking the liberty of amending Joe’s comment (Joe, I apologize)

        We don’t mind ’cause nobody’s carried it to extremes yet. except for Faith and her clarion calls for a break up. haha.

      • joe says:

        More like Ernie with his whipped cream, Chinese food and pudding, and Dave & Thinkling with their Brain Bleach. Now *that’s* extreme! 😉

      • Ernie Davis says:

        I felt the need to lighten the mood…

        Be grateful I did open a can of Duck.

      • alladinsgenie4u says:

        @Joe – I take objection to being left out of the Brain Bleach Group.;)But does that mean, I am happy to be labeled “extreme”? Sure, when it comes to Chuck and Sarah, why not?

      • Faith says:

        LOL I aim to please Alladins. 😀

      • joe says:

        I’m sorry, Genie. I hereby dub you a brained-bleached blonde. I hope that’s better! 😉

      • alladinsgenie4u says:

        @joe – At least it isn’t a bottle bleached blonde – although come to think of it brain bleach does come in bottles.

    • joe says:

      Oh, wow! Thanks, Genie!

    • Faith says:

      role reversal at play.

      Ba-zing!

      • alladinsgenie4u says:

        Sarah wants to talk and Chuck is the one avoiding her. But he is talking to the whole world – Morgan, Ellie, even his mom.

      • JC says:

        It looks like he tells Tuttle too.

      • alladinsgenie4u says:

        @JC -An then he is again going to end up being the jerk in this episode – because he tells everyone else except Sarah.

      • JC says:

        I hope neither one of them comes off looking like the bad guy. That’s what made the ending of Aisle so good.

        But I’m guessing your right and Chuck will end looking like a jerk.

      • Faith says:

        It speaks of a comfort and a trust that is missing in their relationship. Chuck feels like his family…even his mom will side with him no matter what. But at this point he’s not quite sure the same applies to Sarah. Especially when he’s emotional. Listen to his speech.

      • weaselone says:

        It’s called venting and processing. That’s why he’s talking with others and not Sarah. He needs time and clarity before he speaks with Sarah.

      • weaselone says:

        He’s also seeking validation for the way he’s feeling.

      • atcdave says:

        I think venting to a third party is always inappropriate; but its something we’ve all likely done at one time or another. It looks to me like its largely played for laughs, I don’t think it will be that big a deal.

      • thinkling says:

        It does look like it will be played for laughs, and hopefully by the time it’s over, they each will understand the other’s position and motivation so that no one will look like a jerk.

      • weaselone says:

        I disagree. Sometimes it’s better to air your frustrations with someone other than your spouse and get some feed back and perspective before diving in with the significant other. You don’t want get into a conversation with your spouse when both of your are too emotionally charged and primed to act and react thoughtlessly. Some times a little distance and time between the source of the fight and the opportunity to clear your head and sort out how you feel, possibly with another person helps.

      • jason says:

        funny, my wife will tell you, she wants to deal with everything immediately (like sarah does in 4.7), while I prefer to ‘go for a walk’ or go golfing with my guy friends (more like chuck in 4.7), of course, it is so much easier once I learned the 2 magic words ….

      • alladinsgenie4u says:

        @DaveI think venting to a third party is always inappropriate; but its something we’ve all likely done at one time or another.

        Agree with you slightly, but here we find Chuck venting to not just one person but a group of persons. Is he seeking validation for his anger? Or is he afraid to confront Sarah – hence the venting out in front of others. It will be really interesting to hear his answer when Sarah asks him why he talked to everyone and not to her.

      • joe says:

        Looks like there’s not really much disagreement there, Weaselone. It’s only a question of how much outside-counseling, perspective gathering and frustration processing is done before communication occurs in a healthy relationship. I assume it’s different for everybody, right?

        I probably shouldn’t admit this, but I will. The show has certainly caused me to examine my own relationship skills over the years. Made me get better at them, too (I think – I hope). Pretty deep stuff for a mere tv show.

      • thinkling says:

        My pre-wedding vow with myself was never to discuss our issues with my parents. I would say never discuss them in such a way as to prejudice people, especially family, against your spouse. And that’s pretty much what it looks like Chuck is doing. He’s going to his family, which is Sarah’s family as well, spilling his guts and trying to get them to side with him. NOT awesome.

        Pick someone to talk to, yes. But someone who can be objective, give you perspective, and still love both of you when it’s over. If someone is particularly susceptible to irreversible offense bearing, don’t talk to them, even though it would stroke your ego and validate your emotions to do so. Oddly enough, I think Ellie could maintain objectivity and still love them both.

        OK, sorry, I’m done now. I promise.

        Like Dave said it will be played for humor, and that’s good. Otherwise it’s too sticky

      • alladinsgenie4u says:

        @thinking He’s going to his family, which is Sarah’s family as well, spilling his guts and trying to get them to side with him. NOT awesome.

        Chuck asking Morgan to pick sides struck me as churlish and childish. What now? Is Sarah suddenly an opponent?

      • atcdave says:

        Funny I guess I’m just really not a “venting” fan. In my experience it makes everything worse. Maybe because like Genie was saying, it often is more about validation than anything else. And just generally I think dwelling on wrongs only makes them seem bigger.

        But of course, Chuck being Chuck, it will be overdone to a ludacris extreme. We’ve already heard of him going to at least 4 different people, whether that’s venting or validation, its comically ridiculous. I think its a great example of lousey conflict resolution (more like conflict arson!) and looks to be funny. Pure bonus if an actual lesson is learned.

      • alladinsgenie4u says:

        @Dave – that is what I am most worried/concerned about. The First Fight now looks like something of a comic situation – what with Chuck continuously venting in front of others (not to mention total strangers – Tuttle) and Sarah being angry that he didn’t talk to her – thereby setting up a plausible scenario where they ignore the real elephant in the room – trust or the lack of it. But, we still have to see how 4×07 ends. Does it have one mature conversation between Chuck and Sarah on matters relating to trust or is everything brushed aside by two simple “I am sorry’s”- Chuck apologizing for going to others and Sarah apologizing for not trusting him enough.

      • thinkling says:

        @Genie: To his credit Morgan actually tried to help Chuck see Sarah’s side and didn’t want to choose sides.

        I vent to the air (sometimes in 2 languages). That usually does the trick. Sometimes people need to seek wise counsel. That doesn’t appear to be what Chuck was doing.

        By the time it’s over though, it will be too hilarious to remember these serious things.

    • alladinsgenie4u says:

      Morgan sexting with Sarah in 4×01 creeped me out. But this is a whole new level of creepy – right there with Shaw creepy. He seriously needs to learn boundaries.

      • Crumby says:

        The gesture was innapropriate but his statement is pretty funny: heart of gold behind this cold appearance!

      • alladinsgenie4u says:

        @Crumby – I have no issues with that statement. The physical gesture was repulsive, to say the least.

      • thinkling says:

        As creepy as Morgan is, I think he was innocent this time … stupid, but innocent. He was trying to talk to Sarah like he would to Chuck. It was more of a man-to-man, buddy gesture.

        Sarah measured the situation and responded appropriately. But if he does it again, he’s a pancake.

      • atcdave says:

        Morgan is the master of no boundries. Its likely his relationship with Chuck is the only thing that will save his life in this situation.

      • alladinsgenie4u says:

        Sarah measured the situation and responded appropriately. But if he does it again, he’s a pancake.

        She may have responded appropriately, but TBH, I was disappointed that she didn’t twist his arm or something. And IMHO, Morgan needs a hard lesson in boundaries and their sacredness.

      • thinkling says:

        Sarah would probably be the best instructor. If it happened in front of Chuck, he would probably flash and … look out. He would’ve been much harder on Morgan than Sarah was. As he should be.

      • jason says:

        I thought he touched about 6 inches above what I would call a pervertedly inappropriate spot, but I only saw it once and was doing 3 other things at the time, it did not seem offensive, nothing I would ever allow to occur in my circle of influence, but it is morgan, this is chuck, I would think TPTB tried to show some friendship connection between morgan and sarah rather than a jeffster type move, I think it will play out better than it appeared on the clip?

      • atcdave says:

        Jason I think that difference of six inches is the difference of life or death. Its still an inappropriate mistake, just not a fatal one.

      • thinkling says:

        Umm, I want to clarify. When I said Morgan was “innocent,” I meant in motives, not in actions.

      • thinkling says:

        And yeah, Dave, it’s a vital 6 inches!

    • alladinsgenie4u says:

      Looks like Chuck and Sarah will not have a direct confrontation at all. Am I guessing right?

    • JC says:

      I’m loving all the scenes with Mary and Chuck. Her awkward attempt at asking if he wanted to talk about his relationship problems was great.

    • Ernie Davis says:

      All I can say is AWESOME!

      And I nailed at least two with my spec. 😉

      • alladinsgenie4u says:

        Ernie, do you think Volkoff’s people will take away Mama B from the bank?. I am leaning more and more towards that possibility.

      • Ernie Davis says:

        Actually, the ones I’m thinking are the fight simmers while Chuck husbands his resources. Morgan confronts Sarah. I’d say at least those two are confirmed.

        Ed. The role reversal too, but that’s linked to number one, so…

      • alladinsgenie4u says:

        I don’t think Chuck and Sarah have a face off in the initial stages of the episode. As you say it will “simmer” – his complains to everybody that she didn’t trust him enough and Sarah’s anger that he talked to the whole world when he should have been talking to her – maybe it comes to a head during the bank fight scene – Mel(ChuckTv.net) in her podcast did say that C/S fight during the fight with the bad guys.

      • rac2873 says:

        I am glad I saw them. It improved my mood imensely and it seems more like comedic tension instead of angst.

        What would be funny is if Sarah is right all along. lol

      • Faith says:

        lol…If my MamaB and Sarah spec pans out I am taking it in for all the marbles. Long shot FTW!

      • rac2873 says:

        Faith what Sarah Mama Spec?

      • JC says:

        I was looking back at some of my old spec from the Couch Lock Post. Other than the stand off being where MEB gets arrested I was pretty accurate for once.

        “It just makes sense to me that MEB would be in CIA custody by the end of 4.06. By the end of episode Chuck believes his mother isn’t bad, Sarah doesn’t. Which leads to the standoff between Sarah and MEB. This causes the fight between Chuck and Sarah.

        In First Fight, MEB either tells him or he flashes on info that leads him to Timothy Dalton. Also looking at that pic that was released of him and Chuck. It looks like a bank vault. Most likely its some MacGuffin that the two of go to retrieve. Gasteyer is sent by Volkoff to get the it too. By then Sarah finds out about what Chuck is doing and goes after him. This leads to Chuck and Sarah’s fight about trust while fighting off the bad guys.”

      • Faith says:

        Scroll up. Basically that mamaB will understand Sarah best and that understanding will foster kinship.

      • Ernie Davis says:

        And Chuck will kiss her full on the lips, hard, look her straight in the eye and say, “You broke my heart! Never take sides outside the family again. Ever.”

        I think I saw that spec somewhere…

      • Faith says:

        More like: I’d have done the same thing. Maybe you do deserve him afterall.

        Hehe.

      • herder says:

        @ Ernie, to which Sarah mutters “you want the truth, you can’t handle the truth, in the deep dark parts of your soul you want me watching out for you, I’d prefer it if you simply said thank you”.

      • joe says:

        @Ernie: Why do I hear violins all of a sudden???

    • JC says:

      Both Yvonne and Linda hinted at a major twist when it comes to Tuttle in their interviews.

      From Strahovski’s
      People aren’t who they seem to be.

      From Hamilton’s
      He has a few twists and turns in his storyline. More misdirection.

      So is it the obvious Tuttle is Volkoff or something else?

      • atcdave says:

        I think that seems likely, unless we see a sudden casting announcement for Volkoff.

      • herder says:

        Haven’t watched the EPK’s but if there is a notion of taking sides and Chuck talking to everyone except Sarah then it seems that the sides are those who agree that she should have trusted him vs those who feel she had to act the way that she did to protect him. Morgan agrees with Chuck ( a forgone conclusion ), Casey thinks Sarah did the right thing. My guess is that Mom and Ellie agree with Sarah (safety first) and Awesome goes with Chuck (awesome is big on loyalty).

        Chuck not getting the affirmation he thinks he should and stung that people think he is over-reacting decides to go rogue and prove his mother innocent rather than face Sarah in an arguement where he may be in the wrong (having Morgan on your side seems like a big clue that your side is the wrong one) and heads off to find Tuttle.

      • herder says:

        Wow, posted that in the wrong place, too late now. With regard to Tuttle I’m begining to wonder if he isn’t another Ned Rhyerson. A bumbler who turns out to be much more capable and conniving than at first (and second and third) glance.

      • Faith says:

        It occurs to me we aren’t making it easy for people to remain spoiler free.

        Sorry Herder lol.

      • herder says:

        Faith, after last year I have an odd policy about spoilers,
        1. Avoid Magnus
        2. Don’t watch EPK’s
        3. Don’t read pre-reviews
        4. Don’t sweat the rest, second and third hand interpretations of misleading bits are so unlikely to be spot on that they don’t really spoil things.

      • JC says:

        Whatever the twist is with Tuttle or MEB I hope it’s as good or better as some of the speculation I’ve seen.

      • thinkling says:

        After watching the EPK, I would be sad if Tuttle were Volkoff.

      • Ernie Davis says:

        @Faith, well this is a clearly marked spoiler thread.

        @herder, Wise council, but the EPK’s don’t actually give away much plot from what I saw. Outside what we already knew from other spoilers that is.

      • thinkling says:

        I’ll amend that slightly. I would be sad, b/c he’s so likable, but from a story telling angle it would be a great twist. Not to mention TD plays a great bad guy, too. I guess he plays pretty much any character well.

        I would love to see the ZL/YS/TD/LH foursome regularly

    • thinkling says:

      Thanks for the link. 🙂

      Same disclaimer as always: I could be wrong, but:

      I think this episode will be lighter and funnier than Aisle of Terror. I think the fight will be resolved by the end of this ep. Don’t know about some of the other fallout, but that’s OK as long as C/S are OK. I was sort of dreading it, but after the whachamacallit, uh, EPK, I actually can’t wait.

      Didn’t loathe Morgan. He was actually kind of sympathetic and funny. He and Sarah should do more scenes together.

      Looks like Yvonne will nail this … again.

      Loved LH. Can’t wait to see more.

      TD was 9 shades of wonderful.

      Sarah used the couple-y word again. That should be a good thing.

      AND I officially nominate Timothy Dalton to be Chuck’s poster child and spokes person. WOW. He said such wonderful things. He sounded just like us; only he has that whole sexy Bond thing going for him. Oh, yeah, and he’s British. And everyone is lovely. The interview was really so sort-of brilliant, wasn’t it?

      • thinkling says:

        correction Yvonne [not Sarah] used the couple-y word. Well, it IS her word, after all.

      • atcdave says:

        I’m sure Josh Gomez would be particularly happy to do more scenes like that with Yvonne. It must be hard for her not to really hurt him.

  17. JC says:

    Now that Ellie knows her mother was a spy, I hope we get one of my dream conversations.

    Ellie- Almost everyone we know and care about our spies. Its feels like Devon and I are the only ones who aren’t. Maybe Jeff and Lester are just acting and they actually work for the CIA.

    Chuck- Let’s not get crazy Ellie. Those two aren’t putting on an act unfortunately.

    Ellie- Yeah I know but now I think anyone could be a spy. At this point I wouldn’t be surprised if Bryce or Jill were spies too.

    Chuck- Now that you mention it.

  18. rac2873 says:

    Can they get Sarah to laugh more Yvonne’s laugh can improve anyones mood. I feel better already. 😀

  19. jason says:

    thx for posting the epk link, just watched them, looks like a great deal of the ep will deal with the ‘fight’ & that the entire cast is ready to make love to t dalton. Again, the angsty fight is wasted time, and again, makes chuck look like a dolt, sarah like a saint. I am a sarah fan first and it seems to me she is the one character that the show needs to not mess up with, but in the end, chuck had better be right about his mom, to give him some dignity.

    A thing that I would find inter

    • Joseph (can't be Joe) says:

      Jason – Sometimes I do think the show does treat Sarah as if she can do no wrong at least in the way Chuck gives her a free pass on most things.

      I want Chuck to “blow up” at her. It’s long overdue.

      Sarah has had it relatively easy in the relationship with the “puppy dog” that is Chuck.
      Until she gets called out for some of her actions and realizes what she could lose, the relationship is a little one sided.

    • joe says:

      I have to confess that I have a natural tendency to see that kind of thing (my wife will attest to that – it’s a hold-over from the rather mediocre way I had with women as a teen. Bitter, bitter, bitter. Angst, angst, angst!)

      But I’ll also admit Sarah has been treating Chuck fantastically all season. It’s in the looks and glances. She’s been basically screaming “I’m proud of you!” and “That’s my man!” every time Beckman or Ellie (or even Casey) praise him, which has been quite often relative to other seasons. She’s even deferred to his decisions as a spy – high praise from Agent Walker.

      Most of all, she’s adopted his mission. There was no reason for her to either go after Agent Frost or find Chuck’s mother, except to support him. She’s done that without question, even when Chuck himself wanted to drop the search.

      And now, when she’s at a crisis point, you can tell that she’s not doing what she’s done for “them”, and she’s certainly not doing it for herself. Sarah’s doing it for Chuck – he’s the one in danger from this master spy. If she’s wrong, the price she pays is huge. If she’s right, it’s even bigger.

      Chuck may call her out, but I’m not so sure she’s wrong, Joseph!

      • herder says:

        In nerd terms could this be her Kobiashi Maru moment?

      • thinkling says:

        Yes! Well said, Joe.

      • PeterOinNJ says:

        Wow – you really are articulate today.
        Well thought out and well said.

      • joe says:

        Kobiashi Maru, huh? The problem with no right solution.

        I like it, but even cheating won’t help Sarah with this one, Herder. You can tell by the look on her face when Casey tells her about Frost that she’s in a bad situation. Sarah sees no way out of it either. All she can do is trust Chuck and do what’s right.

        Hey! That’s a pretty Chuck thing to do!

        Am I taking sides in the next episode already? 😉

      • joe says:

        Thanks, guys. It’s really weird. I’ve noticed for 15 years that I’m more lucid in the mornings than in the evenings. It’s the only time I ever attempt poetry!

        And no, you *DON’T* want to read my poetry!!! 😉

      • Joseph (can't be Joe) says:

        That’s the issue though isn’t Joe. I don’t see what Sarah did as either wrong or right. It also doesn’t matter fight-wise whose right and whose wrong not if you want to get along. Character-wise Chuck needs to vent (apparently to Morgan) and Sarah needs to see that her actions (no matter how right) may have hurt Chuck. If there going to try and show whose was right in order to resolve their argument then the relationship is doomed. If they hunt after the truth together and can live with the results then they’re on better footing.

        Does that even make any sense?

  20. jason says:

    hit return too quick – a ?, based on what we know, sarah is pinned down by 10 volkov agents and has 2 handguns, she is with tuttle, chuck, and a handcuffed mary. Does she

    a – fight the baddies alone
    b – give a gun to chuck
    c – give a gun to tuttle
    d – give a gun to mary

    interesting ‘twists’ to be sure.

    if tuttle is volkov or even an agent for volkov, then sarah and casey will think mary is dirty, because volkov will know their every move

    lots of people claiming their spec was right, I did say I thought the CS fight would end quick, my beef is that I simply don’t like this type ‘couples always fight’ type of tv that to me appeals much more to the tween crowd than the more mature, stable crowd that loves chuck

    A positive toward the story tellers, it appears 4.7’s fight is very consistent with some of the stuff done in season 4 already, and that the fight is being treated more as comedy than drama.

    I am on record as not liking morgan, but I liked his scene with sarah. The don’t touch my chest line, funny, the shoe scene, funny, the I am going thru the same thing, funny.

    • joe says:

      I think you’re right about that positive, Jason. This *is* Chuck, after all. Humor is part of the show (and my mind quickly goes back to the depths of S3 and ATCDave’s observation that it was NO FUN. He was right!). The mood EPK promos surprised me, I think because I was expecting a darker tone. What I saw was still serious, but much better.

      • thinkling says:

        I laughed and smiled more in the EPK than I did in the whole Aisle of Terror ep.

        I think the bulk of the heartache was in the return of Mary and all the emotions surrounding that for everyone. Some of that will linger, but now they are in problem solving mode, rather than problem dwelling mode.

        The C/S angst is also (my prediction) largely over, b/c the angst was in the telling of the story more than it was in the story or characters themselves. Chuck is angry. Fine, understandable, but that’s not angst. Sarah seems level-headed and wants to talk things out. No angst there. She gets a little more hurt (Yvonne used the word offended) that he’s talked to everyone and his cat about their fight. That seems reasonable.

        The fight is serious, but it *looks* like it will be played out very reasonably, not dark and angsty. We’ll see, but I am optimistic.

        It’s much more believable than that other season you mentioned.

      • jason says:

        joe, what I find interesting about you and me, is you tend to watch other tv at least some comedy, I watch no comedy, 24, Fringe & fri night lights are pretty dramatic, castle, burn notice, eureka, alot like this show but probably more serious. Yet, I hate the drama in chuck, and you tend to like it, interesting. Seems, strictly opinion, that chuck touches quirky things in all of us, somewhat unique to individuals. Dave and I pretty much agree on most things about the show, yet he liked (loved) 4.6, I was angry about it, unfortunately, when this fragmentation moves to polarization, the show falls flat. I think they nailed it this season, looks like 4.7 will be something. You all know, nothing has been spoiled, but the last two scenes of 4.7 are going to be ‘epic and gamechangers’? I assume volkov may reveal himself, and I think the other one is going to be about ellie – maybe ellie has already intersected??????

      • joe says:

        Ah – my turn. Well put, Thinkling.

        I know what you mean about the smiles. That’s exactly the reaction I had, too!

        Angst is no longer the right word to use. Is it? We need to find some other description for the tension between C&S now – angst doesn’t do it.

        It’s got something to do with the strength of their bond. Much like a married couple, we have to believe that it can still be broken, and that there are issues serious enough to split them apart. But we don’t expect it to happen.

        Maybe that’s the difference. Even though the characters and situation are completely fictional, we give them the benefit of the doubt as if they were real.

        Heh! I just realized that our reactions are the most real part of the show. 😉

      • joe says:

        That *is* an interesting observation about us and about the fans, Jason. I do like the comedy! Honestly, I’m critical of most, though. I don’t like to see people embarrassed on TV and I’m less than luke warm about slap-stick, and that’s most of what passes for comedy these days. (And don’t get me started on how fathers are usually portrayed in prime-time!)

        I love how Chuck always had dignity, even when he began as a consummate nerd. For me, his maturation has only made it better.

        And maybe that’s the one thing I’m seeing here. This “fight” between C&S is by no means silly. It’s actually meaningful (I’m looking for the word that means the opposite of silly and stupid). It has consequences and resonates with my own experiences (you know, the ones where I’ve felt trapped between a rock and a hard place).

        So, yeah. It certainly raises up some strong emotions with me, which is pretty dramatic for a comedy show, wouldn’t you say?

      • thinkling says:

        Angst is such a mercurial word. I was more thinking about the angst in Aisle of Terror, itself, though. I think it was artificially manufactured by the presentation of the story. I don’t think the angst was organic to the characters. That is, we felt angst that C/S did not. Not great story telling IMO.

        Now, the tension and subject matter of the fight are organic but not angst worthy, unless C/S let it fester and moon and sigh over it and never address it.

        I do agree with the general statement, too, that the C/S relationship has largely outgrown its angst.

        I would use the word commitment. Since they are putting off the real commitment (the M word), they used the first 4 eps to convince us of their commitment. TPTB have persuaded me that the C/S level of commitment is such that they will fight to stay together.

        And hopefully it [this angst that isn’t really angst] won’t happen often enough that we need to label it. 🙂

  21. jason says:

    hit return too quick – a ?, based on what we know, sarah is pinned down by 10 volkov agents and has 2 handguns, she is with tuttle, chuck, and a handcuffed mary. Does she

    a – fight the baddies alone
    b – give a gun to chuck
    c – give a gun to tuttle
    d – give a gun to mary

    interesting ‘twists’ to be sure.

  22. godot says:

    I think something the epks show very clearly is that they’ve reached something of a brick wall with the Sarah character. It was okay in the first two seasons that she confided in no one and seemingly had no confidants. It was part of the wonderful charm of trying to understand where they were taking Sarah.

    Now, not so much. Even at this point, they have not shown us that Sarah actually confides in Chuck. But when they put the Chuck character in conflict with Sarah, she is truly shown as an island. Which means you get no real understanding of what she thinks and how she reasons or you have to give her exposition rather than action. That doesn’t work in the context of a show where the main characters now have a supposedly “real” relationship.

    Mysterious, unknown sphinx-like Sarah worked great in the first two seasons. But it’s hard to write a believable “relationship” when one character has an army of confidants and the other character is positioned as an Army of one.

    It throws the show totally off-kilter. Four seasons in, having to write Sarah as an robot in a crucial situation (the Beckman-gave-me-clear-orders moment in the bank) seems tinny. And it’s hard to take the show seriously if your co-star is still written as a plot point rather than a living, breathing character.

    Or, to put it in the show’s venacular: If Chuck has always been Sarah’s home, when Chuck can’t be her home (as he isn’t in this episode), we have no Sarah, just a plot device.

    • joe says:

      Good point, Godot, but it is a little subjective, perhaps. It’s clear Sarah was built from the first as a “black box”, someone who spoke much louder with actions than with words. Of course, the question was – could this be carried off for 4+ seasons?

      Of course not! We have to (and do!) see Sarah through Chuck’s eyes, and any hint that they’ve had those confidences has to come through him. (It’s either that, or turn Sarah into a Chatty Cathy.) That can plausibly be done off-screen and brought to life with a single comment from Morgan or Ellie, I think.

      Here’s an alternative, though. Give Sarah a desperate need to communicate on-screen with Chuck, then have her expound. It won’t take much. From Sarah, a 3 sentence speech comes across like a Shakespearian soliloquy! 4 sentences is more than enough!

      Now I want to re-write those last statements in the past tense, because I think that’s exactly what we’ve seen already! There have been hints all along (no more than hints – I hate being hit over the head with a 2×4) that they can confide. And right now in this arc, it seems on the verge of becoming explicit.

      Well timed, I’d say – but that too is a subjective judgment. Your opinion is at least as good as mine!

      • atcdave says:

        I think Sarah’s been plenty communicative this season, but its been mostly with Chuck. If Chuck’s not talking to her, a single line about not having her only confidante would quite powerful.

      • jason says:

        only way to know what sarah thinks about chuck is to have a character who actually cares for her to talk to, like ellie or heaven help her and all of us – Morgan

      • Joseph (can't be Joe) says:

        @ Santa Claus – Perfect time for Carina to make an entrance.

      • thinkling says:

        I vote for Ellie. Later on maybe MamaB.

      • joe says:

        @Dave Yeah, me too. It’s only relative to the Sarah we came to know earlier, but I buy that she’s more communicative with Chuck now.

        @Jason & @Thinkling I love the idea of either talking to her like that. And wouldn’t it be surprising if Devon was the one? I want to see him talk to Sarah exactly the way he did to Bryce!

        @Joseph Know what I want to see? I want to see Sarah talk some sense to Carina! I want to see Sarah emphatically telling her friend what’s what. *That* would be telling!

      • atcdave says:

        I’d love to see a Sarah/Carina discussion; but Ellie seems the most promising for an actual friend. I think though this where we run into that problem of TPTB only wanting to show each character as they relate to Chuck, never each other.

      • thinkling says:

        TPTB only wanting to show each character as they relate to Chuck, never each other.

        They have GOT to get over that. There’s so much more there.

      • godot says:

        Ellie-Sarah is never going to happen so long as Ellie is written as Chuck’s “guardian.” How can Sarah discuss anything with Ellie about spy lives and decisions? The Ellie character would have to freak out from the danger to Chuck.

        The logical candidate is actually Casey, since both characters are currently trying to assimilate into “real” life. Maybe it’s time for TPTB to start writing scenes where Casey and Sarah DO socialize off duty.

        Them talking about how weird the “real world” is and how different it is from the spy world would be both hilarious and touching. Sarah naturally wouldn’t get much good advice from Casey. I suspect there’d be a lot of “tranq him” suggestions. But there’d be the chance to have the Sarah character talk without it being a portentious Chuck-Sarah relationship moment.

      • atcdave says:

        I agree Thinkling, I would love to see that change; they may view it as too much work. The two characters are so different in world view, it could be tough to find things they would discuss. Apart from Chuck, I’m think they would find mainly banal topics like weather, food, clothes (like how any of us talk to a total stranger). Perhaps that will change as Ellie becomes more aware of the spy world. I could even see her being used to ask the sort of questions Chuck gave up on asking long ago; could be very interesting to see a new more open Sarah actually try to honestly answer some questions about herself (and that could freak Ellie out pretty good!).

        Godot, I do agree that for now Casey is the only character we’re likely to see Sarah talk with apart from Chuck. They could talk about their mutual experiences with normal life. But Casey doesn’t really seem a very good candidate for discussing “lady feelings.”

      • herder says:

        Don’t count out the possibility of Sarah MEB talks, Mama B would have a perspective on the spy life/home life difficulties that no one else would. Prehaps she has regrets over decisions made and can point Sarah in the right direction. Of course this assumes that Mama B is ultimately good, if she is a bad guy all bets are off.

      • thinkling says:

        We all talk about how good Ellie would be for Sarah, but I think the reverse is equally true. I think Sarah has demonstrated a fairly decent grasp of Bartowski dynamics. So Ellie and Sarah could discuss being scared of things they don’t know: babies for Ellie, marriage for Sarah. They could talk about in-laws. Sarah could help Ellie deal with the spy world and Chuck’s part in it. Ellie could alleviate Sarah’s fears about real life and, more specifically her fear of inadequacy for it. They could talk about a lot of relevant issues and it could weave in with the main spy plot.

        TPTB is really missing the boat.

      • Ernie Davis says:

        They have done the Sarah/Casey talking thing at the beginning of Cubic Z. Casey seemed willing, and though some took it as a teasing or needling I thought his reaction was to help Sarah realize she needed to take some action before the old Chuck got carried away. His assessment of Chuck was accurate based on past Chuck and Sarah experience.

        Though I think Casey may want to offer to go someplace other than the sparring ring or shooting range to talk next time.

      • jason says:

        i’ve been a sallie (sarah – ellie) shipper since b4 shaw last season when it became obvious that sarah has NOBODY to turn to in this show, except for chuck. Given that she has beaten chuck as the show’s most popular character in at least one poll, it is amazing in 4 seasons she has never been given a girl friend. Casey’s repsonses to her attempts to talk to him are the type I would not wish on any human being, we talk to others seeking understanding, warmth, and compassion, not ‘hummmmmmph’

      • thinkling says:

        Yes, Herder. That’s certainly high on my wish list. I said almost the same thing you’re saying in the Creature Fear thread. Great minds and all that. 😉

      • OldDarth says:

        I nominate MamaB in the role of Sarah’s confidante.

        Great reason to keep her around.

      • thinkling says:

        One of the many.

      • JC says:

        Here’s the burning question. Who points out the similarities between Sarah and Mary? Chuck, Morgan, Casey or does one or both of them realize it?

      • thinkling says:

        Chuck sort of did in the park. Connection …fb … I’ll shut up now.

        Other than that I hope it’s subtext between them for a while.

  23. rac2873 says:

    Sarah seems shocked and offended that the Chuck the one who wants to talk all the time to everyone has confided in everyone and broken off contact with everyone.

    They really need to have a Sarah Ellie scene else Godot is right Sarah is co-dependant on Chuck.

    • rac2873 says:

      I meant broken off contact with Sarah. As a significant other I would be quite peeved about that. Seems rather childish.

  24. Crumby says:

    This is actually pretty funny, everywhere she goes Sarah hears about the fight, and everyone gives their opinion but she hasn’t heard anything from Chuck about it… The scene at the bank is gonna be priceless!

    • thinkling says:

      That does look hilarious! “Is there anyone you haven’t told about our fight?” I hope we get to see Mary’s reactions to their fight within a fight.

    • weaselone says:

      Well, maybe this will provide a lesson to Chuck in keeping things a little more tight lipped. Apparently Sarah is the only person he can trust to actually refrain from blabbing something told in confidence.

  25. alladinsgenie4u says:

    A very spoilery advance review for 4×07 from Zap2It. Tread carefully.Very interesting information in there.

    http://tvovermind.zap2it.com/nbc/chuck/chuck-407-chuck-fight-advance-review/36651

    • JC says:

      Thanks

      Yeah that was spoiler heavy, especially the part about Dalton. Best parts were the stuff about Ellie, nice to see she gets involved.

    • joe says:

      Many thanks, Genie. But by the reactions it looks like I’ve hit my spoiler limit for the week. I’ll forgo this one. It’s funny, but just as I was about to note in comments how little we’ve seen for this episode, the EPKs come out, followed by reviews!

      Hey Fr. Rick! I think I found something for us to give up for Lent come March! – Spoilers! 😉

    • Faith says:

      Prepare the kleenex, I’m going to cry a river!

      • thinkling says:

        I am going crazy here.

        Did everybody else get more out of these things than I did. I think I need to stay after class.

        Faith, do you know exactly why (or strongly suspect why) you’ll cry a river or is it just general anticipation of some unknown sadness.

        And what is the major loss in the 4.08 synopsis.

      • Faith says:

        I know I’m going to cry a river specifically because I am a big softy…I cry during greeting card commercials.

        I know I’m going to cry for this specifically (tears will be shed for Chuck and Sarah eventually) because of Ellie and Mary’s talk. There’s going to be a lot of family history that will be aired and it’s going to be touching for sure.

      • thinkling says:

        OK, thanks. I can certainly see all that. Didn’t mean to pry (but I guess I did, didn’t I). I thought you had the inside scoop on a major dreadful event. Hate being submarined.

    • Brittany says:

      Thanks for the shoutout. From the looks of the comments, I’ve at least given you something to chew on, which was my goal so I’m glad it can be put to good use.

      • joe says:

        Well Hi, Brittany. Great to see you here.

        Perhaps you can tell. People are rather – involved in this. We’re all in pretty deep, which is pretty cool for a “mere” television show.

        I promise I’ll read your article after I’ve seen the show. I’m only waiting this time because there’s been so much info out there I’d rather let myself be surprised come Monday.

      • Brittany says:

        Oh, no worries, Joe! I’m just glad to see that Chuck fans are taking notice of the work that I and our other Chuck writer Mike do every week. That is, after all, why we bother.

        There’s totally no shame in being a little spoiler-phobic. In the case of my advance reviews, it’s really hard to review the ep as a whole if I don’t talk about at least some of what happens. I’ll feel a lot better when I can do the actual review and spit it all out.

        The worst as far as spoilers was when 24 aired. During seasons 2 and 3, the trailers gave away pretty much the whole episode. I remember every week either having to change the channel really quick or walk out of the room with my fingers in my ears.

  26. thinkling says:

    You know, color me SLOW, but I’ve just now been mulling over what a conundrum it is to have Volkoff’s people in the bank. They think Frost has been captured, and they are there to “rescue” her.

    If she looks remotely comfortable with Chuck and company, her cover is blown. Will she use them to help her escape? Would she rather stay with Chuck and prove her innocence? Leave and let Chuck find later? Hmm.

    If C&Co let her be “rescued:”
    1) If she’s a good guy, then she may be tortured for info, and Chuck’s mom is lost.
    OR 2) If she’s a bad guy, then the world just became more dangerous, GB gets furious, Chuck and Sarah’s cover is blown.
    Otherwise
    If they try to take keep her in custody, they have to make it look like she is their enemy.

    Things are shaping up to all sorts of interesting!

    • atcdave says:

      I keep thinking she will be “freed” by Volkoff’s people, probably with Tuttle too. There’s a third option after her “rescue”, that is she’s still a misunderstood good guy who’s cover is intact.
      So I keep wondering how Chuck will be so strongly motivated to rescue her again. Or perhaps after 4.07 he simply wants to destroy Volkoff. Either way, I expect he’ll get strong support from Sarah; but I expect the team itself to be on probation of sorts (tempoarily “broken up”). Maybe the General even views all reassignments as permanent and they have to bend/break rules to restore the partnership. I’m not sure if the climax of the arc will be the rescue of Mary or the take down of Volkoff. I currently suspect we will only see Mary rescued prior to the break, with Volkoff waiting until the back part of the season.

      • thinkling says:

        I suspect Sarah will join Chuck in proving her innocence, then discover/suspect Tuttle is bad, or some other info that would compromise her cover, thus the desperation to find and rescue her.

        The other thing that will probably propel the back 11 … Volkoff’s people in the CIA, scary music, fade to black. I bet Graham was one of them. 😉

      • atcdave says:

        That would be very interesting to implicate Graham at this point. Might even bring up Sarah’s Red Test again(shudder, hope they just leave that alone!)

      • thinkling says:

        Unless it would somehow make it make more sense. Give Sarah some closure … or Chuck and Sarah for that matter.

      • joe says:

        Graham could become the repository of all sorts of sins!

        It’s a valid spec., Dave, and certainly something I’ve wondered about. And you’re right, Thinkling. It could provide closure. We just need it to not bring back too much of S3, though.

      • alladinsgenie4u says:

        If they do touch Sarah’s Red Test again I hope they go with Eve Shaw as a Ring agent and not a mistake committed by the CIA.

      • atcdave says:

        Funny thing is, just like The Sham; I just don’t trust them to deal well with S3. Last time they tried they made it worse!

        Well, they have a lot of new writers now… I’d be all for it if they really can make sense of the unmentionable season.

      • alladinsgenie4u says:

        ’d be all for it if they really can make sense of the unmentionable season.

        They’d better. Because I am out of brain bleach.

      • JC says:

        As much as I would love for them to address the Red Test, it opens up a gigantic can worms. Best bet, bury it with the other forgotten and unfinished story lines.

  27. DaveB says:

    Only one thing comes to mind when I see the Volkoff operative…”Blucher!”…and then the distant sound of horses neighing…

  28. PeterOinNJ says:

    So into the fray I toss the 4.08 official synopsis:

    http://chucktv.net/2010/10/29/spoilers-official-synopsis-for-chuck-4-08/

    let the fun begin!

    • weaselone says:

      Oh no, it burns!!!! 😉

      • timlay says:

        LOL pass the chinese – Man TPTB so lied to the fans they have ruined the show.

        They promised the fans that whatever they face they will face as a couple that was obviously to get people to watch.

        This is season 3 all over again. They have learned nothing, its laughable this is going to be carnage. This is going to be the Mask all over again, the viewing figures will tank after 3.7.

        So thats it there is absolutely no point watching 3.7 or 3.8 at all the last 5 episodes mean nothing. Well its was fun oh well. I will check back after 4.13 LOL

      • thinkling says:

        @timlay: I don’t like what I’m reading, but I still think this is light years from s3! I can’t stress that enough.

        I still think the stress will be pretty much external by 4.08. The key word being “afraid.” Chuck is afraid he may lose Sarah. I’ll bet some pesos that Sarah isn’t planning on going anywhere. I really think C&S are solid. (If I’m wrong, I’ll buy you a Guaraná – the beverage, not the plant) TPTB spent a lot of time undergirding their relationship. Probably b/c they knew some challenges were coming. Don’t give up.

      • timlay says:

        Hi thinkling

        I will hold you to that offer ..

        Well i will not be hanging around to watch it. I will wait to see the reviews. My tolerance is pretty low after season 3. I was one of the people that stopped watching chuck after 3.9 and I never returned. There was alot of us about 2 million hence pulling the 5.5 viewing figures. I watched it afterwards when it had finished and I have to say i was very disapointed the only reason I started watching this season was they promised the same old relationship angst was not going to happen and they would be a couple throughout the season. I was expecting cool spy missions with Team Bartowski. This is the same old stuff chuck in danger of being thrown out of the spy game, losing sarah etc etc its very much like season 3 just the reasons have changed.

      • thinkling says:

        But the reasons are critical.

      • timlay says:

        Hi thinkling

        Enjoying this man

        Well not if its the same old story line, if every season is going to have the same old story thread just done in different ways its fairly boring.

        Why not have that chuck and sarah had to hide the orion legacy. Lots of story potential for sneaking around behind the CIA.

        The whole batman thing has been lost completely. That would have been cool.

        But no they have to go for the angst lets split C & S apart. They have pretty much done that every season. Whos betting theirs a PLI on the way! LOL

    • atcdave says:

      I suspect its just the synopsis writers who haven’t learned anything. But this is truly a horrible way to promote the show. It will certainly scare a few viewers off.

      • timlay says:

        Hmm maybe

        I think its funny really. Like i said they are desperate for the “fans” to vote for the cover of TV mag. While they release synopsis and spoilers that appear to suggest that they are repeating the same old rubbish storyline they did last year. Namely lets split them apart by some contrived way.

        Like I said that relationship and the show is becoming less special its is just show cannon fodder.

        I agree drama on mission is better than C and S apart, its going to make for a few boring episodes.

        It sure is a bad way to promote the show and get fans excited they know how little the fans like them apart so why do it? really why?

        I will predict by 4.8 we will see a drop in viewing figures again. I sure will not bother to watch 4.8, 4.7 I may watch to see if chuck stands up for himself.

        It will be interesting to see how long they drag out the seperation for. It will basically signify how much they respect the wishes of the fans.

      • atcdave says:

        You are exactly right that this type of promotion makes the show less special. This is daytime soap garbage. I bet the Chuck viewers who like the relationship angst are not even a statistically significant portion.

        As I said, I’m not terribly worried about the characters, story, or relationship; but this promotion is idiotic.

      • timlay says:

        Hi atcdave

        Well we saw what happened last season. We lost 2 million viewers when the whole angst kicked in and sarah was handed the stupid cruelty stick.

        Mind you I think the 5.5 mill left in viewers stuck it out across the whole rubbish 12 episodes so they maybe more resiliant than the 2 million that left but looking at the comments here I am guessing not many are looking forward to prolongued split and soap angst.

        The thing is I actually do not want to bother watching anymore if this is the rubbish they are giving us I have better things to do.

      • atcdave says:

        I know timlay, but I honestly believe the writers get. Its just the synopsis writers didn’t get the memo. At least hang on until after 4.07 airs and we have a better idea of the set up. I think we’ll feel better about where this going Monday night.

  29. rac2873 says:

    4.08 Synopsis is out.

    http://chucktv.net/2010/10/29/spoilers-official-synopsis-for-chuck-4-08/

    Read at your at your own risk.

    So much for being in such a rock solid relationsip.

    • JC says:

      Please don’t take this as me calling you out. But why does this bother you?

      • rac2873 says:

        Chuck thinks he is going to lose his girl. Did he not hear Sarah tell him she would always love him and nothing will change that. Now he fears that.

        So what he loses his spy job it is not the end of the world. If Sarah left him over this then they were never meant to be with each other in the first place.

        Sorry but this kind of thinking by Chuck makes me think he doesn’t trust Sarah’s love and I say that is BS.

        If that is where they are going then the first 4 episodes were a complete waste of time.

      • thinkling says:

        @rac: Do we know for sure that the job is the loss, or are you speculating?

      • weaselone says:

        Yeah and fifty percent of marriages end in divorce and Chuck lost both of his parents to the spy world. Ostensibly both Orion and Mary loved Chuck, but that didn’t keep them around.

      • JC says:

        Until we know what happens in First Fight it’s hard to make any assumptions. There’s way too many variables in play.

      • thinkling says:

        I read it wrong. A major loss may end his spy career. So, we don’t know what the major loss is. Can’t love those words.

        I’m guessing they “lose” Frost to the Volkoff goons.

      • Faith says:

        I like to speculate.

        But I’m all for caution about them. We can’t jump into conclusions that will seriously hamper the fun. We don’t know anything yet.

        If there’s one thing I’ve learned it’s a. EPKs can be misleading (Mask anyone?) and b. Synopses all the more so. c. well I’m with Herder on his list (though I actually look at credible spoiler ;-))

        Having said that I stand by my POV but hope for the best.

      • rac2873 says:

        Well it says Chuck fears he may lose his spy career and his relationship with Sarah.

        The only way he should even be remotely threatened of losing Sarah is he cheated on her. Everything else is a non issue.

        Getting tired of Chuck as a character and who knew he would even be more neurotic after he got with Sarah.

        I hope they are overstating this synopsis because this is freaking rediculous.

      • JC says:

        I can’t help but think Chuck and Mary’s conversation from Aisle isn’t some foreshadowing.

        Mary makes it clear she loves Chuck and Ellie. But like Chuck pointed out “You had a mission”.

        If Mary escapes or is taken, it’s possible Beckman gives Sarah the mission of taking down Volkoff and MEB. History repeating itself.

      • jason says:

        drama from CS on an adventure vs drama from CS kept apart while an adventure going on – reason I was so down on 4.6’s end, is the realization chuck is about the latter, while I keep hoping it will be about the former, I am afraid that just won’t happen, makes chuck less of a show for me

      • atcdave says:

        You know, I’m actually not worried about how the story will play out. But I’m POed beyond words that anyone thinks this is a good way to promote the show. Even if Schwedak have learned the lesson from last year (and only watching the next couple episodes will make it clear), the people writing these synopsis have not. Its obvious NONE of us are excited by this wording. The absolute height of stupidity.

      • rac2873 says:

        So Chuck has one fight and he thinks he may lose the woman who said she would marry him.

        You know being a shipper is fun but it is tough when one has his head in the clouds and constantly worries that Sarah will leave him. It is way past getting old. It seems they had those four episodes to get them to a place and then one episode completely undoes it. Seems like a waste to me.

        Of course this is all specualtion but something Mel says makes this even more ridiculous. She said don’t worry about Chuck and Sarah yet Chuck is worried. Something is not adding up.

        If he thought that he may lose her, maybe he shouldn’t have avoided talking to her.

        Sarah has every right to arrest Mary when she did. Chuck said he was going to let her see Ellie and diappear again. So if Sarah told him what she knew he would have pulled a Jill in First Kill and let his mom go.

      • alladinsgenie4u says:

        The synopsis says – after a major loss. Does that mean that something will happen at the end of 4×07 – like Mama B escapes or is presumed dead, most probably the latter. So, Chuck will have his balls chewed out by Beckman over the whole rogue operation and his career may be in danger – but why is his relationship with Sarah threatened?

      • luckygirl says:

        Wouldn’t Sarah’s career be affectd as well for taking part. I can understand why Chuck would think that might strain things. Not saying that Sarah actually will feel that way but Chuck might take that guilt on himself, which would drive him all the more to fix things.

      • thinkling says:

        She’s probably in the penalty box b/c of him.

        He thinks he has cost her what’s most important to her. The dolt hasn’t realized that he is what’s most important to her.

        So he runs off to prove himself to everyone and get everybody their job back. He almost gets killed. Sarah is beside herself to get her beloved dolt back.

        That’s my story, and I’m sticking to it.

      • alladinsgenie4u says:

        My Speculation: Tuttle will turn out bad and will kidnap Mama B at the end of 4×07. Chuck will be chewed out by Beckman for his secret mission to find his mom and his job will be on the line. He may also feel that this setback may drive a wedge between him and Sarah – why? because maybe Beckman wants to assign Srah away from Burbank permanently as she was compromised as an agent when she kept Chuck’s search for his mom a secret from the CIA. To prove to everyone that he is capable of being in the CIA,he undertakes the dangerous assignment. Probably gets captured. Enter Lioness Sarah to the rescue.

      • alladinsgenie4u says:

        @thinkling and Luckygirl – I fully agree with you. The repercussions from keeping his mom’s search a secret from Beckman are going to hit them hard. I am sticking to my speculation that Sarah may be reassigned – thereby his relationship will be threatened.

      • atcdave says:

        However it plays out I’m certain we’ll see Chuck’s worries are for nothing.

      • alladinsgenie4u says:

        It’s going to be one long wait for Nov 15. Enough time for enough heads to explode.

      • thinkling says:

        Messy.

      • weaselone says:

        My thoughts are similar despite my initial bit of snark. I interpreted Chuck’s setback to be something that threatens his career as a spy. If he loses that, at minimum we’re back to the beginning of the season with Sarah jetting off with Casey for months at a time while Chuck sits at home with Morgan (well, that’s what he was supposed to be doing). That’s essentially losing Sarah outside a couple of shared weekends.

        Alternately, Beckman forcibly separates Chuck from Sarah because she considers the group too internally compromised to be effective. In that case, Sarah and Chuck would be like ships passing in the night, seeing each other only when they are both off mission.

        Both of the above situations would certainly STRAIN Chuck and Sarah’s relationship. It would be understandable that Chuck would go on a dangerous mission if it meant avoiding either of the above situations and the resulting long term damage they would deal to his relationship with Sarah.

      • Faith says:

        What weaselone said!

      • JC says:

        We know that the separation is a professional one.

        Like genie said Chuck’s mission with Tuttle probably blows up in his face. Either MEB escapes, his identity as the Intersect is revealed, Tuttle is bad,etc.

        Beckman gives Sarah the solo mission of taking down Volkoff just like his mother had. Chuck is benched and his motives are questioned. So his career as a spy is in threatened but he also knows what the mission did to his parents. He’s worried that him and Sarah will suffer the same fate. That’s what leads to him to joining up with Riggle. Whatever the mission is it probably involves Richard Chamberlain’s character.

      • alladinsgenie4u says:

        @JC – And what happens to Casey? Wasn’t he Sarah’s partner when they were tracking Volkoff? Why wpould he be left out? But your speculation that Sarah may be assigned full time to tracking down Volkoff while Chuck is sent to boot camp (figuratively) is much better than my speculation of Sarah being suspended.

      • weaselone says:

        Casey could either remain partnered with Sarah, or Beckman could break up the entire team. Perhaps Casey remains in command of the Spy More.

      • JC says:

        @genie

        Since the BuyMore is a CIA substation he could be temporarily reassigned or they just might ignore it. Since the synopsis says him and Morgan are dealing the Greta.

      • alladinsgenie4u says:

        @JC – okay. That bit about Casey at the Spy More makes complete sense. The synopsis has no mention of Sarah’s activities – which led me to remember the synopsis of 3.17. It had no mention of Ellie and yet in the episode pivotal things were set in motion by her. So, I am expecting the same from Sarah in this episode.

      • atcdave says:

        I’m thinking a lot of it will be Chuck’s worries based on dealing with mom. He may fear they will be doomed to seperate career paths as Weaselone mentioned. Not sure if it will be fixed with words or a grand gesture from Sarah.

        I’m hoping it will be a nothing. The synopsis for 4.05 made a big thing of Chuck worrying about risking his partners safety; I remember after watching the info screen came and my wife read it. She broke out laughing, saying it was about the stupidest write up she’d ever seen.

      • thinkling says:

        Yeah, we have to keep in mind the tabloid-flavored synopses. But they get me every time. When will I learn.

      • JC says:

        @genie

        I’m with you on Sarah having a pivotal role. Whatever she’s up to could be a huge spoiler.

        Also I’d like to point out that we know the show plays very loose on how other characters view Chuck. For all we know Beckman might think Chuck is a traitor, he does have two rogue spies as parents.

        And there’s the fact that Ellie starts digging up info about the Bartowski family history. That’s never really been explored so the TPTB could throw some major twist there too.

      • Paul says:

        I think we have too many assumptions working us up into a tizzy. First, don’t assume that Chuck consciously heard Sarah’s bedroom confession. What if he didn’t and that small smile had nothing to do with Sarah’s ILY.

        Second, remember that we have perspective on situations in the show the characters do not.

        Third (and I have already posted this spec in this thread), I think the issue with the seperation is not C/S related….at least not directly. I think Chuck makes a major flub in the next eps (Frost is either killed, or goes back to Volkoff in a way that “proves” she has goes rogue) which puts his spy cred in a very bad light. The synopsis for 4.08 screams to me that Chuck is desperate to prove he’s a good spy. Maybe there’s a veiled (or not so veiled) threat that if he doesn’t shape up, he’s too much of a loose cannon and that he will be bunkered. That could easily explain why he’s scared of losing his career AND Sarah….

      • thinkling says:

        If the smile was just gas, then why show it? I think he heard and heard consciously (giving her the 30 minutes of silence and letting her talk to him in his sleep, because it’s hard for her, yada yada).

        But Chuck is insecure enough to wonder, after the incident. By 4.08, I think you’re right, except for the bunker part. I think the bunker is history, unless they genuinely think Chuck has joined the dark side — so not likely.

  30. Rac2873 says:

    This synopsis comes out and we lose the lead in the poll. Coincidence?

    • timlay says:

      Maybe someone should say to josh hay your killing the fan base off. Stop doing angst and stop releasing depressing synopsis. Maybe then we will vote!

  31. Rac2873 says:

    If Sarah is reassigned one would hope she tells Beckman to shove it.

    Chuck going solo is not going to change the fact Sarah is in trouble, also if he gets captured then that only proves he is an incompetent agent.

    • alladinsgenie4u says:

      Even Mama B, a mission hardened agent was sprung by two lesser spies compared to her. Chuck getting captured is in no way a reflection on his competency.

      • thinkling says:

        I agree with Genie. Lots of agents get captured. It doesn’t mean they are incompetent.

      • weaselone says:

        Or at least that’s the case in Chuckworld. Heck, Sarah got caught by a single SCIENTIST in the second episode.

      • jason says:

        sarah also can barely beat up a girl – catwalk fight or heather II, yet she can one punch dolph lundren and the hulk – gotta suspend all reality – and we will – as long as TPTB get chuck and sarah right

      • weaselone says:

        Well, there was Mr. Colt. She didn’t do too well against him. I just chalk up Sarah’s difficulties fighting women to speed. She can sneak in and land a telling hit on larger, stronger, slower men, but the women she fights are just quick so her blows are less likely to sneak through and even when they do, they don’t land as heavily.

    • Paul says:

      I’m beginning to wonder if Chuck’s desperation (because that is the feeling I get from teh 4.08 synopsis) to prove that he is a good spy goes beyond just being seperated from Sarah professionally, but the veiled (or not so veiled) threat that if he can’t shape up and be a positive asset to the government, he will finally be bunkered.

      • atcdave says:

        We haven’t really heard any bunker talk for a while. I suppose its always a possibilty, but my guess is loosing job and girl from one screw-up may be enough to depress anyone (not that I think Chuck is really in any danger of loosing the girl!).

      • thinkling says:

        Yeah, if she didn’t bunker him after Prague, then it ain’t gonna happen

      • Paul says:

        I mentioned the bunker because it does not make sense to me that him losing his job would have any impact on him also losing Sarah. They’ve already shown them together as a couple with him out of the spy world and her still firmly in it. However, the threat of him being bunkered is a very real and physical thing that would seperate them forever. If Beckman can’t control him, how is she to deal with him? She can’t take the Intersect out of his head. She can’t just fire him and have him wandering around in the civilian world and myabe falling prey to someone like Volkoff. So in a way, bunkering him makes sense. Again, pure speculation…..

      • weaselone says:

        True Paul, but Chuck and Sarah went months without seeing one another.

  32. Faith says:

    I’m reminded at this moment of what took place after Beefcake. And all I can think about is…please vote for Chuck on the coverpoll. Whatever you feel about their future, we can all agree that a future without Chuck (one where we don’t know where it’s going to go…Colonel redux, Honeymooners etc. These are episodes to fight for) is one that is not awesome.

    • timlay says:

      But really if they keep doing resets and ruining it. Maybe its best we let it go and keep the good memories of Honeymooners. 3.19 Sarah calls chuck amazing or something after she hits brandon maybe it would have been better if we had left it there.

      Eveytime you do the reset and then bring it back it makes it less awesome really there little talk over the drunk chuck with the guitar was well not that heart warming it came across as a pity I love you. There was no get lost shaw, or anything so was she still seeing shaw then?

      Sometimes however painful you have to let it go. I went through that last year it was hard but I gave up and just stopped watching.

      Now I agree we do not know what is going to happen but really what we are reading is not great.

      • Faith says:

        with all due respect it’s totally different when you’re watching it (at least it is to me). Whatever apprehension you experience when reading these reviews, these synopses, these speculations it’s still different when watching it.

        Sometimes worse, sometimes so much better. So to me letting it go isn’t quite so simple.

        What they are doing in my opinion is not a reset. It’s a revisiting of something that has been simmering to the surface ever since the pilot’s “trust me Chuck.” This is not a PLI revisiting, this is a mature, adult and couply conflict that needs to be hashed out. For that alone, I’m willing to go on faith.

      • alladinsgenie4u says:

        @Faith – I find myself looking forward to these episodes, albeit cautiously – which as you say may turn out completely different from how their synopses describe them and in what way they are promoted. But you know there’s always a small voice in the back of the head shouting out ” Don’t forget Season 3″.

      • jason says:

        faith – I am pretty sure it is sarah who erases all doubt in this arc, in chuck’s mind, in the fan’s mind, of where her heart and soul are. I think sarah is going to do the equiv for chuck what chuck did for her in season 3’s misery arc.

        Chuck just seems so lost in this entire arc, since he never flashes, he almost seems like he astro projected from season 1 like steve erkel (you old enough to know who that is – LOL)

        Is that just me, or you see that too?

      • atcdave says:

        I really don’t believe we’ll see another reset. I think Chuck’s worries will be for nothing. Sarah has made her choice and she will kill or die for her man.

      • alladinsgenie4u says:

        @jason – You are not alone in seeing shades of seasons past in Chuck. After 3 seasons, if you are witnessing a scenario where Morgan is looking more stable and adult like than Chuck – you know something’s a bit off with the character.

      • Faith says:

        LOL, yeah I am Jason. “Did I do that?”

        I’m with you. It does feel like Sarah will be the beacon of light in all of this. She’s going to help Chuck gain some clarity with regards to his mom and in doing so find some of her own. I just can’t help but think that all this is going to make them even closer.

        I like the idea of it a reversal…one with a much more uplifting spirit versus S3. When once it was Chuck that made the grievous mistake this time it’s Sarah and it’s Sarah that will learn and grow from it.

        Alladins, I don’t know if you were around this blog when I posted my “is bad better than good” guest post. But nevertheless, to me it comes down to this: yes we had S3, but is one devastating, depressing and almost suicidal season enough to wipe out the memories of those that were so much more awesome and lovable in S1 and S2? I understand “fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me”…but I will never forget that these are the people that made me fall for Chuck (much like Sarah fell for Chuck) to begin with. And to me the characters I fell for have returned, with a bang. I don’t want to lose that. I take the bad with the good and choose to focus on the good (most of the time ;-)).

      • timlay says:

        I hope you are right.

        As I said I want to see sarah prove herself, I want to see chuck stick up for himself.

        How they deal with this is really key to the show.

      • JC says:

        After three plus seasons I think we all know that the Chuck and Sarah relationship will always be the main source of drama on the show. There’s no use in complaining or worrying about it.

        The spy stories just serve as either a hurdle or realization in moving the Chuck and Sarah dynamic forward. MEB, Fulcrum, Orion, The Ring and Volkoff are just plot devices used by TPTB to move the romance forward. The show is what it is.

      • alladinsgenie4u says:

        @Faith – Don’t worry, Season 3.0 has not and will never wipe out the excellent memories that I have of Season 1,2, 3.5 and Season 4 up to date.

      • alladinsgenie4u says:

        The spy stories just serve as either a hurdle or realization in moving the Chuck and Sarah dynamic forward. MEB, Fulcrum, Orion, The Ring and Volkoff are just plot devices used by TPTB to move the romance forward. The show is what it is.

        Seconded+1

      • thinkling says:

        @Faith: I agree. This is a much more mature challenge. And we don’t even know yet how mad C/S will be at each other. It is couply, b/c they ARE together and, I bet, fighting to stay that way. It will take a lot more than hyped synopses to get me to stop watching. And what it would take just ain’t gonna happen.

        Right, Genie, the hype is always worse than the show. Every week so far this season, they have over sensationalized whatever they could. Then after the show you’re going is that all? It’s that s3 after taste.

        @Jason: The not flashing is OK. He flashed in Couch on the 3 guys. Didn’t really need to in Aisle. (But I’m surprised they didn’t have the toxin affect him differently b/c of the intersect). I think his misery is from the mom stuff. Sarah will know his pain in all of this and do exactly what you said. By the time all is said and done, there won’t be any doubt about how she feels about Chuck.

      • thinkling says:

        The spy stories just serve as either a hurdle or realization in moving the Chuck and Sarah dynamic forward. MEB, Fulcrum, Orion, The Ring and Volkoff are just plot devices used by TPTB to move the romance forward. The show is what it is.

        This shouldn’t be so surprising. It’s very much like life.

        Take your life, for example. You are cast in the principle role. All the circumstances or plots, things that happen, force you to respond and make decisions. That in turn moves you forward. Life is what it is. A series of circumstances and relationships to which you respond and relate. They cause you to grow and move forward … contribute to who you are.

        That’s probably why this show touches us so much. Character centric shows are more like real life. If you take a show where plot is everything, it may engage your brain, but it won’t touch your heart.

      • JC says:

        I’m not saying that’s a negative Thinkling.

        My point is the show is primarily about the romance between Chuck and Sarah. So everything on the show is geared towards moving that story forward. I think that’s why your seeing discontent about upcoming story lines. The spy stories never seem to cause a genuine threat beyond Chuck and Sarah relationship. Not every villain or spy arc has to somehow relate to the romance.

      • thinkling says:

        That’s true JC. I didn’t take you as being negative. Sorry if it seemed that way.

        Chuck and Sarah don’t always have to be ground zero for the “A” Bomb.

        The show can still be about them, even if they are responding to crises other than their own. It would be equally valid for them to be fighting other real threats. And they can still grow through all of that. Then the ocasional larger drama in their lives would feel so overdone.

      • thinkling says:

        Uhh, wouldn’t … wouldn’t feel so overdone.

      • JC says:

        Yep that’s what I was getting at. One of the main reasons Couch Lock was so well received no C/S relationship drama. But the worry was because they took a back seat to Casey and Morgan. So is that the only time we won’t get it?

        The same goes for the earlier episodes. All it of was fluffy stuff but it felt like old drama new paint. Instead Chuck worrying if Sarah loves him it was how deep and committed was that love.

        I’m really looking forward to this upcoming arc it sounds like it could be amazing. But I would be lying if there wasn’t a small part of me that wasn’t worn out by the C/S relationship problems.

      • thinkling says:

        I loved the first 4, because they established a solid relationship that we need to move forward and have the kind of strong-spy-couple-doing-amazing-things show we want. Now it’s time for that to happen.

        Couch was a great example. C/S had some really touching moments and personal growth, but it grew out of what happened to them during the mission. They weren’t the center of the plot/spy-story, even though, they are the acknowledged center of the Chuckverse.

        Take that model, adapt it, and use it a little more. (not that I want a formula) Give them a more screen time or a some romance or passion. Let them have personal epiphanies that grow from the story. Let the A bomb fall on another person (like Operation Awesome). C/S are still caught in the fallout, but it’s more fun to watch. Imagine Angel of Death and Operation Awesome with this season’s C/S. Off the charts.

        Agree with all of your last paragraph. I do think it will be a fantastic ride, really. But there are certain parts of the roller coaster that tend to knot my stomach a bit.

      • JC says:

        I liked the first four episodes too, Coup might have been one of funniest of the whole series. I had some problem on how they handled some things. Not unpacking for eight months is stupid but I get what they were trying to do.

        Your right about the intention of those episodes. They were maneuvering C/S relationship into a strong position for the drama MEB would bring. But I also think they were a result of S3. Most of the issues brought up were either rehashes, Suitcase and Role Models or things that should have been addressed last season. The fact that they needed four straight episodes of C/S fluff to clean off the mud they dragged them through in S3 speaks volumes.

        And that’s where I think people’s problems are. Last season was all about the romance with zero spy plot. And now we start S4 and it feels the same. Chuck and Sarah relationship dominates while everything else is murky.

        Just because they’re together doesn’t mean we need an episode for every relationship milestone. Moving in, unpacking, communication problems, first fight,etc. Just give a us a break on that part of the show and focus on the spy stuff for awhile.

        I was listening to Mo Ryan’s latest podcast about sitcoms. They started talking about the Office and Jim & Pam. They were a WT/WT couple who finally got together. It was similar to C/S in the fans got tired of the third parties. But after wards people starting disliking them as a couple. On the podcast they pointed out that it wasn’t them getting together that was the problem, it was they wrote them in their own little world. It reminds of the way the show is handling Chuck and Sarah right now.

    • Ernie Davis says:

      Well I said it before on another threat, but I’m with Faith on this. This is NOT season 3. In my opinion even season 3 wasn’t the apocalypse everyone thought. Yes parts weren’t great, and the show’s quality suffered, mostly because they forgot to take their characters seriously and tossed them hither and yon for the sake of manufactured tension and angst, then thought they could backload the explanation and make us retroactively enjoy the show. The tragedy is, as we see, that by doing that a significant portion of the fanbase has no patience for real conflict and tension in a way that really does grow the characters and really does move the story.

      My biggest pre-season 3 and season 3 objection to the use of PLI’s and angst wasn’t that Chuck and Sarah weren’t together, it was that TPTB didn’t take the characters they created seriously, and risked damaging what is, let’s face it, the real reason people invest in this show. People you can root for and invest in. Taking them seriously, something I think TPTB have learned they need to do, means occasional real conflicts and real feelings (so to speak) having to be hashed out.

      • Faith says:

        At which I echo…they really seriously robbed themselves of a genuine, emotional, powerful and essential conflict the way it should have been. They can’t do that because they’ve sensitized to the fan base to that.

        But it would have been great.

      • JC says:

        Spot on Ernie

        I’d also like to point out is they did bring up some legitimate issues but they never addressed them. Instead they went for the most angst ridden stories possible.

      • Ernie Davis says:

        It could have been really epic, but they are trying to re-visit the themes in a limited way, which I personally LOVE and WANT to see. If you loved those scenes in Suitcase or Coup d’Etat, you are getting them precisely because they hosed it in American Hero or Tic Tac. What we are seeing now is what we should have seen in Final Exam or Mask. (Minus a co-star who shall not be named)

        On another topic, the cast is actually asking for our help. Openly. They want that TV Guide cover. All our Subway campaigns and polls and efforts that are self organized, in an effort to show the cast and crew that they matter and that we appreciate them, mean nothing if we can’t deliver when they ask for a favor in return for those 18 hour days, those tweets, appearances, and shout-outs.

        So I’ll be the heavy here. If you don’t go to the TV Guide site and vote at least 20 times per day, minimum, you are a bad fan. Keep that browser window open, and whenever you are waiting for anything, vote. Just for the heck of it, listen to an hour of music, and vote. Listen to streaming radio, news, C-span, whatever, but vote. Listen to a Chuck podcast, and vote. This is something the cast and crew want, and are apparently telling us is important. Deliver it.

      • atcdave says:

        I agree with most of this Ernie. I think they haven’t learned the lesson with regards to publicity; and maybe some pacing stuff. I don’t have a problem with how 4.06 ended, but its obvious many fans do. I think we’re to fatigued from the angst fest last season; which just makes it hard for another angst arc to work. Too bad in way, they’re doing what many were saying they should have done last season, but in some ways they’ve already burned that bridge.

      • Ernie Davis says:

        Dave, I don’t care. Vote.

        😉

        They are trying to precisely what a lot of fans asked for. Character repair. But that works both ways. The mushy fun stuff that should have happened, great, but the real we are a couple and need to grow as a couple by realizing what we mean to each other and seeing the abyss of losing each other moments are a part of it too. They just need to do the later with a much lighter touch. And even that is causing angst.

        But you know what… Vote and let them know we’re willing to let them apologize some more.

  33. Rac2873 says:

    Why would they both stay in the spy biz if they are forced to be seperated. Because getting killed on a mission Is the ultimate seperation.

    Chuck and Sarah and Casey need to break away from the Govt. The day my job tried splitting me from my girl would be the day I quit. I would hope my girl did the same.

    • weaselone says:

      We’ve already seen Sarah stay in the spy world while Chuck supposedly stayed home. That’s what was going on in the first episode.

    • atcdave says:

      Sometimes its not that easy. But of course I agree if it looked like my job was permanently going to be an obsticle to my family I would quit (in theory). Sarah is likely only 10 years from a full pension though… That’s exactly the sort of depressing choice people often feel they have to make. And Chuck may not really be allowed to quit.

      A sudden double unemployment (oh, and no unemployment if you quit) would be risky in this economy.

      Of course I’m largely being silly here. Chuck and Sarah will work it out! We may have a couple tense episodes ahead, that is all.

    • JC says:

      They’re going to be separated to show the difference between Chuck & Sarah and Stephen & Mary.

      Mary loved her family but she still chose the mission first. Sarah will be faced with the same choices.

      • alladinsgenie4u says:

        Hey! Maybe episodes 4×08 and 4×09 are more more Sarah centric- concentrating on her choices and decisions. Should be very interesting, if that happens.

      • Faith says:

        I like that.

        I think that’s exactly what they’re working towards. Thus far we’ve had some very obvious similarities between Mary and Sarah and I think what we will be faced with is the determining dissension…”the choices we make and the decisions we live with.”

        (quotations because I said it yesterday lol).

      • alladinsgenie4u says:

        @Faith – …”the choices we make and the decisions we live with.”
        (quotations because I said it yesterday lol).

        And here I thought that you had quoted some great philosopher/intellectual. LOL.

      • jason says:

        genie – any guesses, 4.8’s fear of death, sarah’s fear of chuck dying, of she herself dying, or chuck’s fear of dying, or of sarah dying. or of his mother dying? I am guessing sarah afraid of chuck dying.

      • joe says:

        Genie – She did!

    • Faith says:

      heh.

      You’re making me blush again Joe!

  34. Big Kev says:

    Wow. This fandom has a rare gift for working itself into a collective psychosis.
    We knew there was a fight and a physical separation coming for Chuck and Sarah weeks ago. There was much fun speculation about the possibilities for lioness Sarah in conjunction with MamaB fighting for Chuck and how that could ultimately strengthen the relationship. There’s nothing in this synopsis that changes any of that – yet – major meltdown.
    The “major loss” part is certainly new but the synopsis confirms the broad outline of what we knew was coming. Nothing more and nothing less.
    It won’t surprise anyone here to know that I’m greatly looking forward to where this goes. I get that there are people out there who want an entire season of the plot-free fluff of episodes 2,
    3 (and to a lesser extent) 4. That somehow Chuck and Sarah can juggle all the complexities of spy world and real world, professional duty and family loyalty without ever saying a cross
    word or ever having a fight, or ever having their relationship seriously tested. There is always going to be drama and tension derived from Chuck and Sarah. There always has been I’m 4 seasons and it’s not going to change. If you take that out, you have Get Smart, but not as funny.
    The nature of that tension will change as the relationship develops, as it must in a world of incredibly high stakes where one lapse in judgement can cost lives – but it’s not going away – and to be honest I doubt if I’d last 5 episodes if it did.
    All of last season we lambasted TPTB (mostly rightly) over pinning S3 on plot contrivances (Prague) which weren’t believable, characters who were badly written and cast (Shaw), and motivations that were opaque at best and badly botched at worst (Sarah). Manufactured angst we called it – and we were right.
    So this season TPTB have constructed a perfectly plausible scenario of dramatic conflict (professional instinct vs personal trust), they’ve cast some serious actors to help it play out, and have taken much greater care to illuminate the motivations of the people involved. Oh, and they’ve handled the whole season so far with the lightness of spirit that we were begging for through last season.
    And some people still aren’t happy.
    I’m sorry if people aren’t looking forward to what’s coming up. Especially on a show that can’t afford to lose many fans. But I am equally glad that those people aren’t writing for the show – because in my view, it would be awfully dull.

    • Faith says:

      “this season TPTB have constructed a perfectly plausible scenario of dramatic conflict (professional instinct vs personal trust), they’ve cast some serious actors to help it play out, and have taken much greater care to illuminate the motivations of the people involved. Oh, and they’ve handled the whole season so far with the lightness of spirit that we were begging for through last season.”

      Outfreaking standing. Well said.

    • JC says:

      I see the majority of the worry isn’t about where the story is going but on how its handled. We all know the show can do fluffy, its the dramatic arcs where the show stumbles.

    • atcdave says:

      Big Kev, I think some of your comments to other fans are little too harsh. Many are still gun shy from what happened in S3. And I think many of us were drawn to a spy themed action comedy and are getting VERY tired of the relationship angst dominating the major arcs.

      I do agree that what we’ve seen this season has been very well done. But I don’t like the way the show is promoted sometimes; they hype the angst, not the action and comedy, which I think is seriously hurting our ratings. I expect to enjoy the coming story quite a lot; I’m even confident things will come out the way I want. But I don’t like that synopsis.

      • timlay says:

        hear hear atcdave

      • Big Kev says:

        Dave,
        Scarily enough, my level of frustration with a section of the fandom right now is actually greater than I expressed in my post. I hope I was at least clear about what it is that frustrates me and why I disagree with some of the opinions expressed.
        As for what kind of show Chuck is, I would respectfully suggest that it has never been JUST an action spy-comedy. That view died in Wookie when Carina made her comment about taking what Sarah wants and thereby putting the concept of a relationship front and centre. This show is a relationship show that happens to be a spy show. You’re
        arguing for a version of the show that has never existed.
        Chuck/Ellie – that relationship has been front and centre from Day 1. Chuck and Morgan also. Team B – all about the changing relationship dynamics between the 3 of them.
        What gets most of us most passionate about the show? Spy plots? No. It’s characters – and their relationships and how they develop. The spy world is the background in which that happens. Has the show ever really promoted it’s spy plots? Not overly to me – although I’ll concede that I don’t look for that, so I may miss it.
        To me, wishing for a show about relationships and characters but without conflict is like alcohol free beer. What’s the point? You take the drama out and you completely change the show. That’s a legitimate argument but it’s one with which I completely disagree.
        The conflict is always going to be there. Given that they are by far the 2 most important characters, most of the time it’s going to involve Chuck and Sarah. To me that’s a given. The question is what sort of conflict is it and how is it handled? But to wish it away entirely – never gonna happen on any character driven show that wants to remain interesting.

      • atcdave says:

        I did not mean to suggest the show is just a spy story, you know I’m a huge ‘shipper and that matters a great deal to me. But I think a synopsis that prominently shouts “…MAY END HIS SPY CAREER–AND HIS RELATIONSHIP WITH SARAH” is foolish and insensitive. We all know what happened last season, and it cost us over 2 million viewers. TPTB have gone to great lengths to calm fears of a significant portion of the fan base. But its obvious from comments today that some are still very concerned if this show will be appealing to them in the future. So that synopsis strikes me a huge gaff. I’m saying, at least for the PR work put the emphasis on things that appeal to the full cross-section of Chuck fans. Especially since I’m almost certain its a red herring anyway.

        Kev I know you’ve never been much of a ‘shipper; and its great that your appreciation of the show doesn’t depend on that issue. But for a large number of viewers it does matter a great deal. Last season, if I had been any less invested from the excellent first two seasons, I would have quit. I don’t feel that way this season, I love what I’m seeing and am excited about the direction of the show. But I sure understand why some viewers are nervous. I hope to be able to talk people away from that ledge, I sure don’t want to see anyone pushed over.

      • Big Kev says:

        Dave,
        I’m going to disagree with you about me not being a shipper. I am – in the broadest sense that the interplay of characters and their relationships with each other is what makes this show hum. It’s why I characterized the show above as a relationship show that happens to be a spy show,
        But I want to see how those relationships develop and grow, and the characters with them. How they respond to challenges and real high-stakes threats. I’m not interested in seeing 40 minutes of fluff with a bit of spy plot thrown in. That’s not what this show is to me and it never has been.
        As Ernie put it so eliquently above, there is a portion of the fanbase who don’t want to see any relationship tension, and dismiss it all as angst. TPTB are certainly partly to blame for the beast they created with their decisions re S3 but in my post above I tried to highlight how I think they have specifically addressed our concerns and have come up with a compelling arc that reflects that.
        Some dismiss that as more of the same from the jaded PTB. I’m baffled by that as you can probably tell. I can normally see the merits in an argument even if I don’t agree with it, but I’m really struggling with this one and my sympathies right now are squarely with TPTB in terms of the story they are trying to construct.

      • atcdave says:

        Again Kev its not about the story its about the PR. Its about hanging on to a barely adequate fan base. I love the story they told in 4.06 and I look forward to what lies ahead. I think TPTB have done an excellent job of learning from their mistakes. But somebody handling PR has dropped the ball. They employed buzz words in that synopsis that should never again be used in promoting Chuck because it clearly will make many people nervous.

        Its like trying to sell a Chevy Nova in Latin America; the word choice was close to a worst case scenario.

      • Big Kev says:

        Point taken on the PR. I don’t pay much attention generally to a synopsis because they are often misleading. That certainly proves your point. How much control does the show have over NBC’s promotional dept?
        To offset that though I thought the EPK’s did a pretty good job of putting the fight in 4.07 into context. Maybe 1 – 1 on the promo front?

      • atcdave says:

        Kev I agree about both the EPKs and the synopsis. I mentioned elsewhere here about how “Couch Lock” prominently mentioned Chuck’s worries about what he was sacrificing to find his mom. Well it was like three lines in the episode and one of them had Sarah teasing him about it. Not exactly a major or heart wrenching aspect of the episode! My wife often makes me review synopsis after the fact just for the laugh.

        You’re right too that we don’t know who’s responsible, that’s why I try to say “TPTB”, because I really don’t know where to point the finger. In the end, its not a factor in my enjoyment of the show. Its only an issue if its scaring away viewers.

    • herder says:

      Thanks Kev, saved me from having to think up all that myself. As I said elsewhere, I was a dues paying member of the torch and pitchfork brigade last year, this year they’re simply gathering dust in the attic.

      I’ve enjoyed what we have got so far this year, and I’m looking forward to what is to come. In fact if anything after the first four episodes I was ready for a bit more substance to the story and now it comes. Let it play out, if PTTB go back to season 3 bs out will come the torch and pitchfork, but until then bring it on.

    • jason says:

      kev – I think there is more than one type of script that generates drama on tv, for 3 straight seasons, chuck has tried the same playbook and has angered fans and failed miserably, TPTB implied this season would be different, yet have gone to the SAME DARNED ANGST DRAMA playbook. Why are you acting condescending and superior when the same fans are reacting back the same way as every other season, angry?

      I tend to agree with many things you wrote, I do think this season is going to be fine, but I am pissed over 4.6’s end and the implication of angst for the next few episodes.

      And yes, TPTB did have a choice, drama can be generated in many ways – aren’t you a fan fic gal or guy? Do you always generate drama the same way?

      THAT TO ME IS BORING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    • joe says:

      Yet another in a long line of great comments today, Kev. What you just put down really resonates with me too.

      We’re passionate people who like contemplating passionate characters. Words can hardly express it all sometimes, and only a grand sense of humor (and lots of understanding) can get us through the adventure. It’s when we insist that our own view is the only correct one that others in the fandom get annoyed, and it hardly matters if we’re talking about Charah or Jeffster. The most dogmatic often have the most 2-dimensional view, it seems. And like you said, 2-D can be boring.

      I have a feeling, though, that no one’s really bugging out for good (despite what they’ve said), so we can let them have their say and not lose sleep over the ratings.

      • jason says:

        joe, why would you say kev’s and your view is any more 3 dimensional than anyone elses? ARe you equipped with some special goggles that sees dimension in tv analysis? To me, the INSISTENCE that realational angst is some higher form of entertainment is indeed one dimensional, except maybe for a 13 year old girl

      • joe says:

        No special goggles, Jason. You see, I agree with you. It’s the INSISTENCE that riles other fans, pits people who see drama in the angst against those who don’t like it, ‘shippers against anti-shippers, fans of the journey against destinationists… It’s not the positions that people have taken that strike others as boring. It’s the seeming ease at which other positions are dismissed that bothers them.

        And it’s not easy to make a passionate statement about something you believe and not have it come across as dogmatic, either. (It’s why people avoid discussing Religion and Politics in polite society.) So we do have to be careful about how we read other people, too. Read generously, I say.

        I think Kev was making a very valid point about the passion in some of the comments today.

  35. rac2873 says:

    I think I need to stick to the episode discussion and not the spoilers.

    Especially the synopsis those things tick me off the most.

    If I did not know about this or the fight I would be still very excited for the episode on Monday but now I am cautiously awaiting it.

    Season 3 burned me pretty bad and that is a tough thing to get over. Yes this is not season three but the lack of trust in schwedak is still there.

  36. godot says:

    I’ve enjoyed my brief stay here, but I’ve heard enough. Since TPTB are going back to the angst well, I won’t watch. I ain’t a shipper. The constant romantic silliness simply bores me. Fourth time though is NOT the charm. Every sweeps arc they go to the angst and I just don’t care about the characters anymore.

    That said, before I go, can I say just three things:

    1) If you are going to be bothered by arc, at least understand how TV writing works. If you start an arc for the November sweeps, you don’t complete it until the last scene of the last episode of the month. So your resolution literally will not come until the end of Episode 10. Maybe that’s why it’s called Leftovers. Four seasons of the same old romantic agita is warmed-over gruel.

    2) Please, for your own mental health, reread 1) if you ARE a shipper. Steel yourself for four episodes of Chuck and Sarah mooning, doing stupid things, losing faith in (and perhaps hope and charity for) each other and themselves. And your “happy place” won’t come until the tag of Leftovers.

    3) You folks who care about the show now have all the ammunition you need to rebut the Darths and the others who claim the show is about anything BUT a dysfunctional relationship. There is no such thing as a “crazy shipper.” There are only “crazy deniers.” They deny the obvious. If this show WERE about anything but a relationship, TPTB would go to something else during a November sweeps.

    Don’t make yourself nuts, folks, it’s just a television show. And, when all is said and done, it turns out that you want a different kind of show than TPTB. You want an adult show. They want a soap opera. It’s their show so they get what they want. You can watch it or leave.

    Thank you Joe et. al. for a blog that is now much better than the show it talks about.

  37. OldDarth says:

    “this season TPTB have constructed a perfectly plausible scenario of dramatic conflict (professional instinct vs personal trust), they’ve cast some serious actors to help it play out, and have taken much greater care to illuminate the motivations of the people involved. Oh, and they’ve handled the whole season so far with the lightness of spirit that we were begging for through last season.”

    Hear, hear! Kev!

    Some people don’t want a show, they just want a Chuck and Sarah portrait.

    • Faith says:

      methinks you read Big Kev wrong (see second post).

      And in my most honest and frank opinion, no need to sound condescending.

      • OldDarth says:

        The paragraph scans fine on its own and sums up my feelings quite aptly.

        Thanks for your feedback. How is this instead?

        Some people want a show from within which Chuck and Sarah are restricted to a narrow slice of dramatic maneuvering room.

      • Faith says:

        I take no exception to the quotation. If you scroll up I expressed a similar sentiment. But my problem is it’s not quite as simple as wanting a “Chuck and Sarah portrait.”

        Like I said yesterday I don’t take anything away from those who want a Chuck and Sarah vs. the World storyline, just like I don’t dispute there is a story to be mined by examining the issues within. We’re all different people with different POVs. And since you have largely expressed dissatisfaction (going on the basis of your feelings about the emotional beginning and your issues with the last epi in particular) with this season I find it interesting that you would belittle those who expressed a similar sentiment. But to each his own.

      • weaselone says:

        Not to quibble OD, but aren’t many of the individuals you are chastising, actually saying the same thing? There are numerous possible ways in which Chuck and Sarah can be involved in drama, yet so often this drama is internally, as opposed to externally driven. So far this season the drama still largely remains internal to the Chuck and Sarah relationship, although it is now catalyzed by external forces. Chuck and Sarah are still fighting themselves in order to keep their relationship. What some are asking is for the writers to try something crazy and different. They would like to see Sarah and Chuck battling external forces trying to tear them apart for a change (you know, like in vs. The Colonel).

        I think we’re about to see just that over the course of the next few episodes. Sure, Chuck and Sarah will have to deal with the emotional fall out from last episode, but I think it’s one part set up and one part misdirection. We’re going to see Chuck and Sarah split apart by outside forces and we’ll get to see them as they separately struggle to stay together. Sometimes the methods they utilize to fight will be ill advised, but their hearts will be in the right place even if they’ve been beaten repeatedly with the stupid stick (honestly, sometimes it seems less like a stick and more like someone uprooted an entire sequoia).

      • weaselone says:

        Or they could go really wild and have Chuck and Sarah sucked into the vortex of someone other character’s sturm and drang. As things stand, Alex and Morgan will have the healthier, more stable relationship this season despite Chuck and Sarah already haven been together several years.

      • OldDarth says:

        My initial post was ill-advised. The return of posts very similar to the melt down at ChuckTV back in Season 2 still get the best of me.

        Sorry.

      • rac2873 says:

        Weasleone I think you just hit the nail on the head about what is bothering me about Chuck and Sarah.

        “Or they could go really wild and have Chuck and Sarah sucked into the vortex of someone other character’s sturm and drang. As things stand, Alex and Morgan will have the healthier, more stable relationship this season despite Chuck and Sarah already haven been together several years.”

        So Morgan is season one Chuck but more mature, why does Morgan go through this massive maturity transformation and meanwhile Chuck is neurotic as ever. Chuck and Sarah fumbling through a relationship is not what I had in mind when they were to get together.

        This show is called Chuck not Morgan lets not make Morgan out to be a more mature adult than Chuck.

  38. rac2873 says:

    I think my problem is the synopsis. If I left in season 3 because of Chuck and Sarah angst then this would definately keep me away. It would seem like the same old same old.

    This show cannot afford to annoy anyone, but yet here they are again with those annoying synopsis.

    Those kind of synopsis do not do the show any favors. Also the natives will get restless if Chuck and Sarah are seperated for more than one episode.

    Also expect some fan agita if these issues linger throughout the first 13.

    • luckygirl says:

      I get that some people can’t quite shake season 3 but the writers can’t really write anything worth anything if the whole time they are walking on eggshells afraid to annoy people. There is always going to be people who aren’t entirely satisfied with the show. The show has had 3 and 1/4 seasons each one very different, each one had an appeal for somebody. Should they be focused on entertainment of the fans absolutely but I would argue that is probably more difficult than one assumes especially just gauging the differing opinions on this board. For me so far they are doing a really good job this season.

      • atcdave says:

        The problem isn’t that fans are trying to limit the writers. I think the issue is many want them to expand their horizons and write something different. I’ve now talked with three different viewers from last week who all regarded the end of “Aisle of Terror” by rolling their eyes and saying (to the effect of) “they always return to the same old thing.”

        I don’t entirely agree, I feel good that this season will play out quite differently than what we’ve seen before; but my point is, many viewers feel like the writers are in rut.

  39. Faith says:

    Tempers are definitely running high tonight. Even I’m getting heated.

    So I’ll say goodnight for now and end with please vote.

  40. rac2873 says:

    “On another topic, the cast is actually asking for our help. Openly. They want that TV Guide cover. All our Subway campaigns and polls and efforts that are self organized, in an effort to show the cast and crew that they matter and that we appreciate them, mean nothing if we can’t deliver when they ask for a favor in return for those 18 hour days, those tweets, appearances, and shout-outs.”

    It is not like we are not voting, it’s just the Supernatural fans are tweens and teens with no life and no jobs. Most Chuck fans have families and jobs.

    I have been voting for an hour but I also have a baby to take care of. If we lose this trust me it is not for lack of effort.

  41. Some of you got yourself worked up into a frenzy over nothing. Without the context of what happens in 4.07, how can anyone make a decision about the context of the 4.08 synopsis?

    P.S.

    Here is a hint:

    atcdave is correct.

    • ChuckGasmic says:

      Holy poopsicles… I just put a lower case L in my last name… I am officially retarded.

    • atcdave says:

      Wow, you finished that post with the rarest combination of words ever seen at this site. I’m marking that on my calender!

      By the way Magnus, I don’t recall seeing here before; so welcome! Feel free to comment any time I’m correct. (Or well, anytime you want).

      • Magnus Anton Lekay says:

        You should feel proud… you are the only one who got it right.

        OK, fine… I only read like 200 of the comments. 😉

      • atcdave says:

        My usual strategy is to predict everything, that way I can claim victory whatever happens.

        And the beauty of it is, with this many comments no one remembers what all I said.

      • atcdave says:

        Okay I’m kidding, it actually makes me pretty happy to hear that; I think my predictions were far less dire than many.

      • thinkling says:

        OK, Dave, have you figured out which of the many brilliant things you said was the right one? 🙂

      • atcdave says:

        I’m guessing my first real prediction, the one I posted in response to you. Its not terribly specific; just Chuck and Sarah fight, ruining the mission. They make up (or try), but Beckman is ticked and reassigns or benches them.

        I made some more specific comments later but I think Magnus was bored by then.

      • thinkling says:

        That’s the one I had decided on, for its uniqueness.

      • Let me add that atcdave is only correct about the gist of the episode with respect to the synopsis. The other stuff about how the promotion department shouldn’t do this or that or how we lost 2 million viewers due to this or that… well, that is just conjecture. But the reasonableness expressed in regards to synopsis supposition and reality is right on.

        Since we have a week break between episodes (or two weeks, if you want to count it that way), I will be sure to toss out a few more tidbits related to Chuck’s issues at some point next week. But first watch 4.07 before going nuts about the 4.08 synopsis. Things will be soooo much clearer Monday night.

        Granted, by this point, some people should be used to how misleading the synopsis can be.

      • atcdave says:

        Not quite what I thought you meant but I’ll take it; especially the part where you called me reasonable. Which is statistically nearly as uncommon as calling me correct.

        I do agree my stated cause on the loss of 2 million viewers is conjecture, its the sort of thing that would defy concrete analysis. But I’m pretty comfortable with that conjecture, of the four households I know that dropped the show last season, all four mentioned the central relationship issues as their reason for quitting. Now that is truly anecdotal, it only proves my friends have similar taste to me; but it is 100% of the admittedly small sample set.

        And for the rest, well I do get emotional…

      • herder says:

        Dave, I wondering if we haven’t got that 3.08 synopsis backwards. Right now the tension is that Sarah doing her job has put Chuck’s family life in jeapordy (although we know she was doing it to protect him, he real primary job). Maybe Chuck’s suggested screw up puts Sarah’s job in jeapordy and that is what he is worrying about, will she still feel the same about him if he causes her to lose the job that she loves and is good at ( again that is no longer her primary job or focus “I want to be a spy but I want Chuck more”).

        It’s one thing for her to choose to leave the spy life to be with him, it’s another thing entirely if he takes that choice away from her. That could cause him to take on a dangerous mission to set things right.

      • atcdave says:

        That is a very interesting thought Herder. We should have a better idea in just two days now, woohoo!

      • thinkling says:

        Yes, Herder. I think that’s kind of part of the package we’ve been looking at. Chuck will bear the blame for all of this, and rightly so … it is his mom. All of team B will get painted with the the same fury brush. So, Chuck will blame himself for whatever damage is done to Sarah’s career. It’s a given that the hammer will come down hard on all of them once GB finds out, especially if there are negative intelligence ramifications. And it looks like the combination is going to be bad in the extreme for Chuck.

        Now, I doubt Sarah is going to be as hard on Chuck as Chuck, but he won’t be able to see it. Should he know how much she loves him? Yes. But this is probably going to be bad enough that he’ll lose sight of it. … OR He’ll just feel like he doesn’t deserve her and try to earn her back.

      • herder says:

        Thinkling, my idea is something along the lines that Sarah takes after Chuck with Mama B in tow, either as a rogue operation of her own or with the General’s reluctant permission on the understanding that to return without the prisoner will have consequences for Sarah. At the end Chuck goes with his gut, against Sarah’s advice/plea (not know of the General’s conditions) and lets Mom go.

        He will have misread her motives on the initial capture of Mama B, not talked to her about it and put Sarah’s career in jeapordy by his unilateral decision. That is why he is worried about losing her, he has wronged her and will have to fix it.

      • thinkling says:

        Aha. That is a different nuance. Very plausible. At that point we have all kinds of trust issues in the air.

        I wonder, though, if Chuck will have that chance with all the Volkoff agents. But maybe.

        This is definitely a great spy story. I’m pretty sure that Mary will disappear and need to be refound, but the details … Your idea certainly ratchets up the tension all round.

    • joe says:

      Hey, Magnus. Unlike Dave, I *do* remember the last time you commented here! Glad to see you’re still reading us, too!

      Thanks for the tidbits, and really, for the caution about not peering too far ahead. I certainly can agree with you about that one!

  42. thinkling says:

    Yes, the good thing is that all your predictions included Chuck and Sarah being OK by the end of 4.07.

    • thinkling says:

      This should go under the Magnus thread

    • atcdave says:

      My predictions always include Chuck and Sarah being okay by the end of the episode. That’s the real reason I hated S3 so much, I got really tired of being wrong all the time.

      • thinkling says:

        lol

      • As I like to say, season 4 is not season 3 and does not step on any of the landmines of season 3. However, there will be obstacles for Chuck and Sarah and there will be some things coming down the pipeline that WILL upset shippers. But shippers get upset even when there is nothing to get upset over so… I think they can handle it.

        I am actually thinking about a great teaser spoiler I will be posting after 4.08 that will probably cause Chuckpocalypse 5. And yet the ratings will remain the same… I am sure.

      • atcdave says:

        Speaking as a pretty hard-core ‘shipper, I’m fine with the level of angst we’ve seen this season. And I think most of us accept that things will occasionally be challenging to our heroes. But I think what most of us can’t abide is Chuck and Sarah giving up on each other again like we saw through much of S3. I think ratings will drop if that card is played again.

      • atcdave says:

        Oh and while I’m at it; I think that’s why there’s some disquiet over the 4.08 synopsis. It vaguely sounds like Chuck thinks Sarah will just walk away from him again.

        If, at the end of this arc, Sarah has made the sort of grand gesture showing her willingness to do anything for Chuck (as most of us are speculating by 4.10); I think the ‘shipper fans will be mostly won over and S3 will finally be behind us.

      • I think the core Nielsen viewing audience is going to stick with the show no matter what. Just like how SMALLVILLE has kept a core audience through all of its terrible writing and pointless relationship angst (watch 3 episodes of SV and you will probably never complain about CHUCK angst again).

      • And Sarah has made many grand gestures. Why anyone needs to see even more from her to feel confident about them as a couple… I do not know. And that goes to Chuck too. He should know better. Sarah loves him. Not like the way you love Skittles or Miss Pacman or RedTube. SHE LOVES HIM.

      • atcdave says:

        There is some feeling that Chuck has done all the actual relationship work.

        You are completely right about how much Sarah has done, especially in Marlin and First Kill; those were the sort of epic moments that defined her character and the show. But we haven’t seen anything quite like that since the Sham; as I said, another such deed would finally wash that foul taste away.

        And hey, more epic Sarah moments can only be good.

        Believe it or not I am a Smallville viewer. Although my enthusiasm for the show has been pretty low since about S3. The character angst there is truly grotesque, and I think that’s the example I really don’t want to see Chuck follow. Chuck’s audience is more adult, and tolerence for adults acting like teenagers will not be nearly as high.

      • Big Kev says:

        I don’t need to see any more grand gestures from Sarah as proof of her love for Chuck. She had me at “going rogue and committing treason” in that department.
        But I do think MamaB and Sarah teaming up to extract Chuck from whatever life-threatening trouble he’s managed to find would make for an awesome storyline.

      • Chuck has done all the traditionally female relationship work. Sarah has adopted the traditional male role. But in that, she has made the grandest gestures of love, whereas Chuck has made all the overt romantic type gestures.

        It comes down to what you want to see. But too many fans fan-fic their way through the show instead of accepting who these characters are. You can’t expect a character motivation that has never been demonstrated. That would be disingenuous.

        Having said that, we have seen Sarah evolve on an emotional level in ways I never imagined she would. But I believe it because it has taken time. Whereas I had a hard time buying Casey’s sudden transformation to Morgan’s buddy (though, I have no issue with that now) because it was to subtly hinted at over a couple of episodes.

        Sarah I can buy doing ANYTHING for Chuck because she has put her life, career, and freedom in jeopardy for him many times. Does she need to demonstrate more? No.

        Will she?

        HELL YES!

      • atcdave says:

        Hey you don’t have to sell me on Sarah’s devotion I buy it. But have you been reading comments lately? There is a sizable portion of the fan base that hasn’t bought in yet. I’m just saying what I think it will take to get the last doubters enthused again.

        And I’m confident it will happen too. The trick is just keeping audience numbers up until then, which ties back to my displeasure with the previously mentioned synopsis.

      • Anyone who needs more convincing is making an effort to miss the obvious. I don’t tend to devote too much time to them. Plus, it seems to be the same people who have been saying the same thing since season 2.

        How many different ways can one say the same thing before it sticks in the mind?

      • thinkling says:

        I’m getting in on the tail end of this, I know. Electricity went out … no internet … worse yet, 11 floor walk-up. Great thread.

        Thanks for the input, Magnus. Great additions.

        I don’t think you can overstate the impact of s3 on viewer trust. Many people see the obvious [Sarah love]. How can you miss it, especially after Suitcase and Coup. However, this isn’t the first time that the obvious has been staring us in the face … 1st Kill, Colonel. Then s3 was such a reason-defying departure from the obvious, that most people were left stunned and not just a little sick.

        I believe things will be fine. I believe Chuck/Sarah are a solid couple and that, as Dave said, she will kill or die for her man. But in the back of many minds there’s a niggling dread of what TPTB might do with the obvious.

        I’m excited about the season. Can’t wait for Monday. (But with the time changes, I’ll be watching at 11 now. Ugh.)

        … Comparing SV and Chuck is like, I don’t know, Mandarin and Swahili. I watch both (speak neither). I liked SV better after the Lana Drama years ended. Shudder. [I’ve got to say Kreuk was better as you know who.]

      • atcdave says:

        Hah! Agree about Kruek. Lana’s overstayed welcome is truly epic. At least Hannah came and went fairly quickly!

      • thinkling says:

        Despite the totally unwelcome intrusion, Hannah was a likable character, independent of all she caused. And Kruek did a good job.

      • atcdave says:

        I agree entirely. The topic of alternative and “non-canon” pairing was just brought up yesterday over in my latest fan fiction post. Many writers have played with the Chuck/Hannah pairing. If you take Sarah out of the equation, or put Hannah in Chuck’s life earlier she makes perfect sense. I think she was unwelcome mainly because she appeared too late in the process; to most of us Chuck/Sarah should have been beyond that sort of distraction by S3.

      • Faith says:

        Wait, what?!

        I missed a discussion on Smallville? FOR SHAME!

        I love Smallville! Well lately. I didn’t care for it before but s9 and now 10 are just…”a dream come true level of wow” 😀

        Someone send me a twitter message the next time this happens! JK.

      • thinkling says:

        Sorry, Faith. I didn’t know. 😉 I’m enjoying s10, too.

      • atcdave says:

        I think S10 is the best since S2. Kind of a long slump. Makes our own S3 look like nothin’!

  43. Joseph (can't be Joe) says:

    I know I’m late to the discussion but the biggest change for me this season is the unambiguous way in which Sarah is being portrayed. Call me dense if you will but the “open for interpretation” Sarah of last season was not my cup of tea.

    That, and unlike last season, this season there is a clearly defined point to the story as identified in the first episode makes me less weary about the upcoming “hijinks”.

    • alladinsgenie4u says:

      Agreed about the Sarah characterization this time around. It’s much more refreshing and enjoyable.

      And I am with you on the upcoming “hijinks” part – not dreading them at all, just curious how they play it out.

    • atcdave says:

      I’ll ditto all. I have that S2 feeling again!

  44. Judy says:

    I looked up per fas et netfas, which is MEB’s code with Tuttle. It’s latin for “through right and wrong.”

    • joe says:

      Judy, that’s a great bit of sleuthing! Thank you so much!

      I’m laughing, too, because I just assumed MEB was mouthing nonsense syllables. Should have known better.

      (And to Fr. Rick, sorry! It’s been decades since I was an alter boy and knew that stuff! 😉 )

  45. Amrit says:

    You know chuck (the character) reminds me of jack sheppered from lost in some ways. He tries to fix every problem for everyone that asks him to, he needs to be a brother who lives a life that makes Ellie happy, an employee that satisfies the general and president, a son who has to be shot and then trust his mom and finally a boyfriend who has to keep it all together and stay sweet and nice so that his girl friend will be happy. You know like jack if he continues down this path he will never ever achieve happiness. Some times I think chuck should just tell Ellie to shut her mouth, turn mom in for being the worst mom in the world and just concentrate on his friends, girlfriend and career.

    • Rac2873 says:

      You know you are 100% correct. Risking your budding romance for a mom who bailed on you. No the smartest move. Eliie has her own family to deal with.

      Chuck needs to comcentrate on Sarah and nothing else. Wait until they get married, then the fun really starts.

    • atcdave says:

      While I agree Chuck needs to prioritize better, specifically I’d think Sarah should clearly be number one, and mom would be below almost everyone else; I really like that he tries to do right in all circumstances. That’s a huge part of the show’s appeal to me. I’m really tired of selfish main characters who make their own agenda number one. But he does need to show more sense in how he prioritizes those important people in his life.

      • Amrit says:

        But it makes other characters like Ellie and mom appear to be really selfish and manipulative! They make chuck this self sacrifincing saint whose life will bring him nothing but pain and as a viewer sometimes you just want a honeymooners type episode where it is just chuck focusing on what makes him happy. I was not a shipper before 3.14 and even when 3.13 came along I was so PO’d about how contrived season 3 was upto those episodes that when I saw chuck and sarah smile at each other that went all away, there banter in that episode was so cute and adorable that I feel the writers need to think carefully and write better material for chuck!

      • JC says:

        Its the hero archetype. Chuck will always suffer for everyone else and his desires will be secondary. He sacrifices his wants and himself for the greater good.

        Calling Ernie a hero’s journey mention. 😉

      • atcdave says:

        Oh believe me, I would like a lot more like Honeymooners. But I like Chuck as a self sacrificing character. That’s the very definition of a hero to me. And at its best, Chuck is about two awesome heroes (bonus!). I like that they are often inconvenienced by the need to do the right thing, it makes the time they get together that much more special. But like I said, I would like to see Chuck figure out how to set boundaries better. I mean seriously, being devoted to Ellie is awesome; the problem is she still thinks he is a child. Chuck needs to figure how to love his sister while showing her he has to make important decisions involving career with his adult family (namely, Sarah). It is simply not Ellie’s responsibility to protect grown-up Chuck anymore, that is only Sarah’s job.

        But I would rather not ever see Chuck get angry or selfish about it.

      • Amrit says:

        I agree that a selfish or angry chuck all the time would be bad, but if he did it once in a while then it would rack up the tension because it would force other characters to change the way they deal with him. I mean when sarah and him went at it in crown vic you could tell that he was hurt that she kissed him and then from his point of view messed with his emotions and minds and from that point on she never did that again. From the beginning of season 2 she made it clear that she wanted a relationship with him when he was not an asset anymore. I think chuck needs to lose it so people can know that you cannot treat this guy like a sap and get away with it! I hope in this first fight chuck does get angry and stuff comes out and therefore new boundries are set……

      • Crumby says:

        One of my favorite quote in Honeymooners is “I don’t want you to choose me over something that you want for yourself”.

        The problem with Chuck is that he often self-sacrifice when he shouldn’t. He bases his decisions on assumption (like “Sarah wants to quit the spy life”).

        The problem is also that, by always self-sacrificing, he prevents other people to do so. If he was clear with Ellie that he wanted to be a spy and explained why, she surely would understand and support him. Like Sarah did.

        They’re all some sort of heroes here. Ellie raised Chuck after being abandoned by both their parents. Somehow she managed to grow up pretty well, became a doctor and Chuck turn out pretty great himself and went to Standford. She may not be a hero in the spy life, but in real life she is.

        Chuck needs to find a balance between fighting for himself and doing things for others. There will always be “the right thing to do” dimension anyway.

      • thinkling says:

        Great observation Crumby.

        We’ve seen Sarah’s self sacrificing side a lot. But basically They’ve stunted some of the other characters growth by over-playing Chuck’s. That in turn keeps him in a more neurotic state than need be.

        Don’t know if that makes sense or not.

  46. alladinsgenie4u says:

    This is totally off topic, but I just came across a hilarious piece of fan fiction written by Tyninarex – it’s a “Duck” shippers dream/nightmare come true.

    http://www.fanfiction.net/s/6440120/1/Chuck_vs_The_Bunker_of_Love

  47. Amrit says:

    You know I wish that they get rid of the buymore all together man, it really is dragging the show down. For people who say that it provides comic relief, well with morgan now in on the action he has been so awesome since half way through season 3 that he steals every scene and can easily carry the comedy wieght on his own! Also for those who say that there is not enough story to go around for chuck that is also wrong! They have orions files, sarah, casey, general Beckmans, all these peoples past, they can do flashback episodes like lost did, also when lost covered the main casts backstories over two seasons they introduced the others and their backstories in season 3. So chuck can easily do the same thing, the could have done a flashback episode this season where it shows the day mama b left. The could do an episode showing bryce and sarah on missions and what made her the agent and person she was. The could do an episode on general beckman, where an enemy from her past when she was major comes and she needs the teams help and have I not already mentioned orions files! Come on guys get rid of the buymore and amp up the tension and the show and go for the kill like lost did!

    • atcdave says:

      I agree the Buy More hasn’t been my favorite part of the show for a while; but I think its such a signature part of the “Chuck” brand it is unlikely to ever go away. The best we can likely hope for is some more clever and amusing “B” plots, because they are likely to always be there.

  48. Amrit says:

    I think based on 4.08 synopsis sarah may be kidnapped at the end of 4.07. I think his mom will kidnap her!

    • rac2873 says:

      That is the only split that would keep the characters true and it puts Chuck on a mission to save her.

      Well I am trying out going spoiler free starting tonight. Because of this the promo won’t be posted by me until my wife is able to do it. I am tired of the spoilers messing with my head. lol

  49. Faith says:

    Couple of articles re: tonight’s epi:

    EW with TD.

    TV guide with Ana Gasteyer

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