Observation Post: Chuck vs. the First Fight

Alright friends, I’m back from my business trip and am happy to join in the merriment of getting to watch Chuck live!  Trust me when I say I was having serious withdrawals for my two week sojourn.  Argh!  Anyway, here is your place to muse about tonight’s episode.  I just add that I’ve enjoyed the last two episodes.  It was quite a shock to come home and find the mountain of posts-I can’t catch up.  I’ll just close by saying I hope the first fight is short lived and we can wrap up the episode with some Nina Simone slow jams 😉

Oh, and before I forget, please keep voting for Chuck to make the cover of TV Guide!  Voting closes tonight!  http://www.tvinsider.com/coverpoll/



About amyabn

My name is Amy and I'm in the active Army as my profession. I love the show Chuck and want to see it succeed for many seasons to come. My twitter handle is amyabn.
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222 Responses to Observation Post: Chuck vs. the First Fight

  1. Rick Holy says:

    Is it possible to have a future episode called “Chuck vs. the TV Guide”? (perhaps there can be some kind of clue on the cover of TV Guide that he flashes on).

    We better win. My fingers are starting to bleed! 😉

    Keep voting everyone until the last possible minute. PLEASE – do it for CHUCK. He’d do it for YOU!

  2. weaselone says:

    They should have ended the episode there!

  3. sniderman says:

    No spoilers here, but I gotta crow:

    I *totally* called it. 😉

    Fantastic episode and, once again, the game is changed.

  4. Paul says:

    Really good eps. I loved the twist at the end.

    And I really DO think Frost is going to be a good guy in the end.

  5. weaselone says:

    So can I speculate about later in the season yet, or do I need to wait until Chuck finishes on the west coast….

  6. amyabn says:

    Wow! I loved the fight within a fight, the MamaB twist with the Intersect came out of nowhere, kudos to those who called it on Tuttle. I liked Sarah getting to “sit in” on Ellie and Mary’s chat. I know I’m a broken record, but it would have been nice if Ellie would have said something like, “you’re family” to Sarah after she said she had to stay.

    Next week (well, in two weeks-how will we survive?) looks intriguing. I really enjoyed this ep.

    • amyabn says:

      Ok, I know I’m replying to myself, but I can’t wait to see what mysteries the Mustang holds, how Ellie may be able to help re-intersect Chuck and save the day, etc. Guess I should be putting this in the spec post, eh?!

      • weaselone says:

        I don’t think Chuck has actually been deintersected. My guess is that Mary uploaded all the info in the Orion cave into him knowing it was going to be destroyed. Chuck is probably suffering from a case of mental indigestion in the next episode.

      • atcdave says:

        I was thinking it looks like she removed the executable file; but the fix is likely on Orion’s laptop that he left in the Mustang!

      • JC says:

        But didn’t Mary say “Your father didn’t want you to see this”?

        It has to be some sort of upgrade or loads of information right? If it deintersected him of course Orion would’ve wanted him to see it.

        I’m hoping it ties into what he downloaded as child.

      • atcdave says:

        You might be right JC; but I wonder what dad didn’t want him seeing?

      • alladinsgenie4u says:

        So what’s the final judgment – is he really deintersected or is it just an overload of intel as JC suggests? Because in the promo for 4×08 it looks like he flashes.

      • atcdave says:

        I didn’t notice that Genie, it may be a moot point; he’ll likely be fully functional soon regardless. We saw one of Orion’s computers in the Mustang, I’m betting can either repair or restore the Intersect.

      • alladinsgenie4u says:

        @Dave – This should go in the speculation post for 4×08 but how about this – to prove himself Chuck goes on the dangerous mission with the CIA spy. Meanwhile Ellie finds out about the laptop and what it can do, she informs Sarah who then takes the laptop with her to wherever Chuck is stuck. Lioness Sarah FTW!!.

      • atcdave says:

        Sounds plausible. This almost worse than a cliff hanger; I’m sooooo excited!

      • JC says:


        Weaselone mentioned it could be all the files from the OC which makes sense. Orion would have a backup of all his files. And since both parents were spies for a long time, it might contain things they didn’t want their children to know about them.

        My spec is a little out there. But what if it’s an upgrade that permanently encodes skills onto a persons brain. It wouldn’t work on most people but we know Chuck is special. That’s something he most definitely wouldn’t have wanted Chuck to see.

      • alladinsgenie4u says:

        @JC – But what if it’s an upgrade that permanently encodes skills onto a persons brain. It wouldn’t work on most people but we know Chuck is special.

        It will be really cool if it so happens. Maybe it does and Chuck will be able to recall/use all his skills if put under special circumstances – like mortal danger/fear of death.

      • JC says:

        From a story standpoint if it was an upgrade he might having troubling accessing it. We know his flashes are short and the skills and information fades after a time. If it does give him permanent skills, it makes sense the flashes would be harder to access and could be much longer.

        Also if the show gave Chuck certain skills permanently like Kung Fu you wouldn’t have to show him flashing on them anymore.

      • herder says:

        They didn’t look like ordinary intersect downloads with information hidden in images. What exactly this new download does is beyond me, but I think that Chuck will have to “reboot” like he did with Shaw to acess it. Remember Mama b hasn’t seen any of Chuck’s struggles to adapt to the intersect, it has worked perfectly as far as she can see so my best guess is that it is some sort of upgrade or history of Orion’s development of the intersect project.

      • JC says:

        A couple of more points that make me think it was an upgrade or update.

        Mary knew exactly where it was which makes me think her and Orion were in contact somehow. She also says Orion was wrong for not showing it to Chuck. Then you have the letter to Ellie that mentions things about the Bartwoski family history and of course the computer.

        Volkoff said it himself Frost is a master of deception. It would make sense her and Orion would have sort of contingency plan in place.

  7. herder says:

    All that hand wringing over a fight that turned out to be handled perfectly “why don’t you post it on friendster” ha! A fun, funny episode with some great twists that leave me excited for more. The only downer is that we have to wait two weeks for the next episode.

    • Paul says:

      Seriously! Sometimes we work ourselves up into a tizzy for no reason.

    • weaselone says:

      I especially agree. The idea that Chuck was simply avoiding Sarah because of the fight as mentioned in the spoiler was definitely overblown.

    • thinkling says:

      OK. I vow to quit buying into the hype of synopses and pre-reviews. Next time I do, please e-slap me. I’m with Sarah … this is exhausting.

      • rac2873 says:

        That is why I am not the reading into the synopsis anymore. lol

        That episode was great. Loved the fight while fighting and Chuck and Sarah are awesome. Loved that she totally came around and in the end they are both correct.

        I never thought of that but that uploading of all dads intell would make sense because if he was de-interesected why did they go through all that in Colonel to get it out.

    • herder says:

      So, how many are still worried about a Chuck/Sarah seperation in the next episode or two?

      • atcdave says:

        I’m just worried I may explode with a two week wait. I’m ready to watch the rest of the season NOW!

      • Paul says:

        I was never really worried. I always believed it was a professional split and not a personal one.

      • Paul says:

        The sucky part is that we are going to have a whole month break right as we start to hit the climax of the first 13. Talk about Chuckus Interuptus.

      • atcdave says:

        That’s always a hard break. I remember the seven weeks off in S2 was like cruel and unusual punishment.

    • Faith says:

      No break up but some break to get their issues settled so I wasn’t all that far off.

      In the end what needed to be said was said and that is…Sarah needs to let him be, even when he’s wrong and just be there to support him. While Chuck now understands just how much Sarah cares for him and how for her it was never an issue of trust but fear.

      Not the way I would have done it, but I’m not the writers for a reason 😉

    • Crumby says:

      That Frienster line was hilarious! 🙂

  8. joe says:

    Can I quote you, Amy??? WOW!
    I have to re-watch and re-watch again! Dutton was fantastic! I half expected the twist with him, and convinced myself otherwise saying “Naw… no way. He’s just a comic!”

    Ellie & Mary Elizabeth with Sarah watching – amazing. Chuck & Sarah fighting while they’re fighting (better than ever, too!).

    And the final twist, stunning. Came out of nowhere. Kudos to everyone who kept the secret!

  9. OldDarth says:

    I just knew Dalton had to be Volkoff!

    Best episode of the series to date. Bar none!

    That is my kind of Chuck!! 8)

    Right down to MamaB Intersecting Chuck with a PSP. LOL 8) 8) 😀

  10. Rick Holy says:

    Great episode. If you haven’t seen it yet and don’t want to be “spoiled,” then don’t read this.

    I had a “gut” feeling that Timothy Dalton was going to wind up being Volkoff. He did a great job playing the bumbling “MI6 handler” of Frost – but let’s face it – to have him be a more sophisticated, suave “Bond-type” character is far, far better – actually it’s PERFECT.

    Can’t wait for what the future episodes hold as far as his story arc is concerned. I know there weren’t too many people who accepted him as James Bond. I did – thought he was great in the role.

    What a major score to get him on CHUCK. One thing for certain, we’ve been treated to some great casting as far as guest stars go. It’s funny how in this episode (Volkoff as Tuttle mentions an episode of ALIAS). In this week’s Entertainment Weekly, “CHUCK” is commented for it’s excellent use of guest stars. “No other show since ALIAS has made smarter use of its guest stars” (Entertainment Weekly). Couldn’t agree more!!

    Now. Back to voting. VOTE, VOTE, VOTE people. We’re neck and neck (and I still can’t believe how) with Supernatural. We’ve GOT to pull this one out. So vote until you can’t type anymore!!

  11. jason says:

    I thought the CS fight still detracted from what was a great episode, but only a little. If ellie, chuck, sarah, dalton, and hamilton are allowed to give 95% of the lines in each and every episode, indeed, chuck can do drama, without any angst. I loved it, I felt no angst in this ep, just well done television. Somewhat predictable, but great. I loved how mama B gave sarah the tool to get free, she must realize by now chuck is a hapless putz. What did she whisper, protect him??? I thought ellie / mamab / sarah was played well, I just never see ellie disliking sarah, almost the opposite, there never was a moment of hesitation talking in front of sarah, plus, yvonne nailed the ‘look’ during that scene. Well done. Bravo all.

    • Paul says:

      I think Frost sees something of herself in Sarah.

      • joe says:

        I hope so, Paul. Sarah was obviously affected by Mary’s interaction with Ellie. Yet, Mary remains inscrutable. There’s been a kind of mutual respect between the two that started from the moment they sized each other up in Griffin Park.

    • atcdave says:

      I liked that too Jason, the way there’s no animosity between Ellie and Sarah in very trying situation. I do think Mary may realize Chuck is fairly helpless without the intersect, he’s going to need Sarah more than ever now. Of course the scene also completely justified Sarah finally putting some trust in Mary, even when it appeared she didn’t deserve it.

      • thinkling says:

        I agree with all of this. The Sarah/Ellie relationship is now coming off much better than we had previously thought. Wonderful scene. Perhaps even for MamaB to see how both her children trust Sarah … nice.

        Sarah’s trust was justified, but so was her doubt. Even though mom is probably a good guy, Sarah’s doubts were shown to be not without their merits, too. Teamwork. They’ll get there.

      • herder says:

        What was it that Mama B whispered to Sarah at the end? Protect him? I’ve listened two or three times and can’t quite make it out.

      • atcdave says:

        I thought it was “protect him”. Like Sarah needs to be told that, its her default setting.

      • Paul says:

        “Protect Him”

    • weaselone says:

      I think it has less to do with Chuck being a hapless putz and more to do with her being able to talk to Sarah and slip her the blade without drawing Volkoff’s attention. He might still be leery regarding possible lingering feelings Frost has for Chuck, but he wouldn’t give a second thought to her “taunting” Sarah before leaving the Orion Cave.

    • Faith says:

      Yet another…close but no cigar from me.

      I felt before this epi that MamaB more than anyone will see some sort of kinship between her and Sarah and that she more than anyone will understand what it took for Sarah to do what she did. Close but no cigar in the sense that in the end it was MamaB who put her faith in Sarah and in a way her blessing too.

      I loved the burn inside Castle but I think it speaks of her “approval” of Sarah’s love for Chuck that she then trusted Sarah not to blow the role.

      • thinkling says:

        Great minds, Faith. I’ve been keen on the Mary/Sarah dynamic since the beginning. There is so much there. And what we saw in this ep was so good in that camp.

        Tremendous empathy and approval there. It didn’t hurt that mom was witness to the nested fight. Or that she saw Sarah’s empathy toward Ellie and Ellie’s trust of Sarah. She trusts her as family and spy.

        So, we now have both parental blessings. Jack to Chuck and Mary to Sarah — and in the key relationship bonds, too … father/daughter and mother/son.

      • jason says:

        were I in the writer’s room, I might have asked the team if ‘Protect him’ may have been even a bit more powerful as ‘protect them’.

        I have been shipping ‘sallie’ since early last season, I still don’t think it will be a huge part of the show, but sure seems like it is a fan fav, couple of new ships – sary or marah & SA -LLI – RY – SArah – eLLIe – maRY – seems like all those ‘teams’ have wonderful opportunity for the writers as the women of chuck are great actors.

      • atcdave says:

        Funny Jason, it was nice to have a scene featuring all three important women in Chuck’s life. I wish Sarah had actually had more to do, but I’m hopeful we’ll see this trio again.

  12. atcdave says:

    Dave is a happy boy. What an absolutely dynamite episode. I was happy from beginning to end. Chuck talking to everyone but Sarah was a hoot, and the resolution of this first fight was brilliant. Timothy Dalton and Linda Hamilton are perfect in there parts. But I think I’ll miss Tuttle, he was so funny on the airplane. I guess we know what Chuck’s loss is now, I can honestly say I didn’t see that coming. The Ellie/Mary scene was great; I wonder if we’ll ever hear Sarah’s thoughts about it (and the obvious parallel between Frost/Orion and Sarah/Chuck).

    Sorry if that all came out in a jumble. I’m very excited and very happy right now!

    • Mike says:

      I wonder how long it’ll be before what Sarah overheard between Mama B and Ellie bubbles up to the surface in her relationship with Chuck. It looked like she was effected by what was said- probably because the parallels hit too close to home. Geek science type meets tough CIA handler and they fall in love. It didn’t end well for the Bartowski’s and that has to have Sarah doubting her future with Chuck. Sounds like a building story line for the back 11.

    • Faith says:

      Dave, I think since Chuck wasn’t present it’s up to Sarah to keep him in the loop and tell him what was said. In a way it serves as yet another way for her to become closer to “her family.”

  13. amyabn says:

    Ok, I have just one quibble and I’m hoping some of your guys’ spec will help me work through this, but what a GIANT retcon to have MamaB zap Chuck with the suped up PSP and mess up/remove the intersect.

    I hope Weaselone and others are correct and that he just got a super-refresh and just can’t process it yet. Seems silly if they killed the intersect after all they went through to invent a new intersect cube at Roark Industries, only to have had a device to take the intersect out sitting in the Orion lair all that time.

    I’m still processing, but that thus far is my only quibble.

    • atcdave says:

      Somehow he’ll get it back. Its too much of the show’s concept.

      • OldDarth says:

        Hence the Orion laptop in the car.

      • atcdave says:

        Funny OD, I just said exactly the same thing elsewhere. Great minds and all…

      • Paul says:

        I also think the laptop in the car will give Ellie a way to bless off on Chuck being a spy, by helping him reintersect. THAT would definately change the tone of the show in a subtle way.

    • luckygirl says:

      It’s not a retcon if he invented it after season 2. He had a whole unknown year.

      • thinkling says:

        But how would mom have known about it? Remember he kept saying the he invented all this stuff years ago: flat screen tv, touch screen … why not PSP

        Just spitballing. The intersect is never gone.

        Yeah they showed the exact same device (laptop, OD) in the basement just before it blew. This is the Orion version of the crystal to rebuild the fortress. Well, sort of.

      • luckygirl says:

        Good point. I have no idea.

    • Tamara Burks says:

      I don’t think she removed it. She said that his father didn’t want him to see this (out of Volkoff’s earshot) and Papa B. wanted Chuck to not have the Intersect.

    • joe says:

      I’m still processing too, Amy. But I really like the idea that it’s a super refresh.

      We saw the promos, so we know that whatever it was only helps Chuck in the long run. I’d certainly expect no less from Stephen! (That guy is always thinking ahead!)

      I’m really tripping on the Stephen/Mary Elizabeth – Chuck/Sarah analogy now. And with Tuttle/Volcoff in the mix, it fits right in with the PLIs in a way I can accept.

      2 weeks??? I can’t wait!

    • Gringo Chuck Fan says:

      Right – if it was a device to remove the intersect that easily – Orion would have used it on Chuck back in Season 2 – when they both wanted the Intersect removed from Chuck’s brain…
      It might actually be specific Intel about Volkoff – because we know the CIA didn’t have any good info/intel on either Frost – or Volkoff.
      Whatever the case – Chuck is ‘Special’ – and he’ll reboot! – a good jolt or Fear of Death will tap deep into his subconscious – and Bingo – we’ll have Intersect V.3 ready to take down Volkoff. Well whatever – its going to be a most enjoyable ride!

      • PeterOinNJ says:

        Exactly Gringo! Judkins and Lefranc were fans of the show before writers and they surely know what happened in Colonel. I think the key words were spoken by Mary – “your father never wanted you to see this – but I know now he was wrong”. What if Stephan created an “overdrive mode” for the intersect? He would probably think it was too dangerous to fall into the wrong hands and he definitely would not want Chuck to get it.
        I think we are about to really find out what makes Chuck special.
        That’s my theory and I’m sticking to it!

      • thinkling says:

        I think you guys are spot on.

        Mary would have known Stephen’s pre-Colonel mentality — that he didn’t want Chuck involved in the spy life. Now that she has seen Chuck in action and knows that he has a partner whom he can trust and one who can protect him, she knows he’s ready for it … the supercharged, updated intersect 3. Can’t wait to see what’s in there? Yes … and what makes Chuck special.

        As to current info, she could have had that on a flash drive (pardon the pun) to update the device at the last minute.

      • joe says:

        This is great speculation!

        I rather like the idea, myself, that it isn’t so much a “supercharged” Intersect, but a whole, new, massive data set. In particular, I think it’s Orion’s data. Tons of it, scientific and engineering and miscellaneous in nature. So much that it’s almost overwhelming.

        This is going to be so much fun!

    • Tamara Burks says:

      Did anyone else notice that the intersect cube that he was working on for Roark (and used to remove the Intersect) was in Orion’s lair.

  14. Judy says:

    Fantastic episode! I look forward to reading your comments after I spend the rest of the evening VOTING!

  15. BDaddyDL says:

    I have to comment on one scene. the scene with the three ladies, is quite possibly one of the most artistically magnificent scenes in the series.

    • thinkling says:

      Yes it was. And powerful, as well … superb.

    • joe says:

      I agree, BDaddy. It was stunning.

      • Gringo Chuck Fan says:

        I seriously hope they use that scene for 2 reasons…. 1st – to bring Ellie and Sarah a little closer together. 2nd – to have Sarah recall moments of her own mother. It would be fantastic if we see her trying to reconnect with her own family again in the near future!!!

    • Crumby says:

      I like that they let us know what it was about, but yet we didn’t really heard anything.

      We don’t really know what is the story between Stephen and Mary, not in details, but they managed to have the characters know. I really liked how they played it. It allows the story to go forward and come back to it at some point.

      Plus the acting was superb.

  16. Rick Holy says:

    Hey YOUs! KEEP VOTING!! 🙂

  17. BDaddyDL says:

    Ok just thought of something. Right as Mary whispered to Sarah, and than had to leave, it reminded me a lot of when Orion bargained to get Chevy Chase’s character to let Chuck go. Definetly some parallels

    I also thought that if Orion was chuck and Mary Sarah than Tuttle could have been Morgan, alas they went a different way.

    • joe says:

      Gee! I always thought that Roark might have been Stephen’s Morgan! Tuttle was more like Sarah’s Cole, I thought.

      And you just reminded me of another great scene! Morgan was great, again! The scene where he walks in and re-introduces himself to Mary was awesome!

      • thinkling says:

        indeed it was

      • Crumby says:

        Morgan was great again in that ep. Great with Chuck, Sarah, Casey and Mary and hilarious as a spy. And yet they didn’t put to much of him in the ep, especially at the end, which was a great thing.

        Not enough Casey here though.

  18. Tamara Burks says:

    Anybody else notice a couple of interesting little details…When Morgan was about to go into talk to Mama B , Sarah said aomething about why does he keep trusting her after all she’s done and I could swear the expression on Morgan’s face said he was thinking people could say the same thing about you.

    Plus in the bank Chuck said something about Sarah only trusting people that Beckman ordered her to trust which was a dig at Shaw . That being brought up after all this time makes me think that maybe they’ll talk that particular issue out.

    • joe says:

      Great insight, Tamara, on both counts!
      I’m not sure we’ll get to see that Chuck & Sarah talk it out about Shaw, but we may get to know that they have, just like we *didn’t* hear the Mary tell Ellie everything.

  19. weaselone says:

    Keep voting, we’re behind.

  20. Crumby says:

    Wouh! That was awesome!

  21. Tamara Burks says:

    I wonder though if Ellie should be worried that he mother mentioned the 68 mustang in order to get Ellie to go get it (probably because the guy holding it was only suppossed to give it to Ellie) in order to get her hands on the computer under her seat the way she used Chuck to destroy Orion’s lair.

  22. Sole says:

    Sometimes in a Chuck ep I get the feeling that they could have had better use of the guest roles and the time, some plots feel forced… BUT, Wow! Great use of 40 minutes and great use of the guest stars!!! Kudos to Lauren and Rafe, once again, I must say they are my favourite writters. Also, I must see Alias now!!

    And it was funny too!!!

    Loved the dialogs: Mary/Ellie/Sarah, great scene, Sarah Lancaster was Awesome! It`s a pitty she doesn’t get much screen time, she can certainly do emotions well. The Thank you to Sarah, aww…
    The figth within the figth, great way to deal with a first figth, very Chuck and Sarah.
    Morgan reintroducing himself, telling her about her dish, very sweet moment.

    I have no Idea what will hapend next, And I love it!!!
    It`s gonna be a loooong wait.

    Still my favoury show!

  23. Faith says:

    My thoughts about the epi…

    It doesn’t even need to be said right? But seriously fantastic episode. The crowning glory of such a fantastic episode has got to be replaying One October Song by Nico Stai right when Mary Bartowski seemingly betrays her husband’s memory. It didn’t hurt to have Scott Bakula’s voice over during yet another powerful scene towards the end.

    We’re reminded tonight why it is exactly why we scarfed down Subway sandwiches and voted until our fingers started to hurt for tonight’s concluding TV Guide poll…because there is nothing better than Chuck at its finest.

    And Chuck at its finest is full of heart, of twists, and of fun. Tonight was the epitome of all 3. Who didn’t cry during Mary and Ellie’s talk? Having Sarah there was also inspired. In a way it brought her even closer to Chuck and made her more a member of the family that we know she belongs. I’d have wanted to hear exactly what it was that Mary said to Ellie but I have to give it to the writers, the unknown is perhaps more poignant than what is known. We know she left and we’re left with one lingering thought: whatever excuses or reasons she had for leaving, it’s never enough. And she’s had to live with that.

    It’s also interesting that through it all, Mary Bartowski has never lied. At least not to her family. If you play back every statement she was truthful and although some truths were omitted, I find her devotion to at least being true to her kids is admirable. She told Chuck, “he doesn’t know you’re my son, nobody does” and that’s the absolute truth. Throughout their interactions Volkoff aka Tuttle has tried to determine their relationship, what exactly is the connection between Chuck and Orion and Frost. Even towards the end where Chuck says, “you told him about…” she interrupted to protect him, “about my husband, of course.” Mary Bartowski is a master of deception and rightly so because she’s straddling the line between white and black, good and bad, family and betrayal. And in the end the ultimate spy gave her ultimate approval to the woman that owns Chuck’s heart…”protect him.”

    I don’t think she erased the intersect, I think she added to it. When she said, “your father never wanted you to see this” I think she meant his father never wanted him to be a part of this…to know these secrets (key word), all these subterfuge but she now knows it has to happen and acted accordingly. “It all begun with a scientist, whose code name is Orion,” and that too is the truth.

    Last thoughts:
    – the fight that wasn’t was also a stroke of brilliance. It IS exhausting having them on the outs, not just for them but for us who roots for them. And I absolutely loved the way they handled it. In the end what needed to happen happened and that is the understanding that even though he’s wrong, Sarah needs to take his side and just be there for him to console him if need be. I’d have like to delve into that a little bit more but in an episode so full of win, there can be no gripes.
    – Volkoff is in love with Frost. And that is going to lead to his ultimate downfall.

    • JC says:

      Mary never revealed she had kids. I think that’s a major point that’s being overlooked. While it’s easy to just dismiss it as a mother protecting her children, I can’t shake the feeling it’s more than that. Especially after the letter Ellie got from Orion and the hints about the family having many secrets.

    • Faith says:

      I think I prefer my 2 word twitter review: Mind F.


      Definitely JC. There’s all these puzzle pieces and that’s what makes it so awesome. We don’t know how the puzzle looks yet but we’re given pieces here and there.

      • JC says:

        My only worry is as fans we see things that aren’t there. Its like the spec I have going through my head now. I have thoughts that Chuck getting an Intersect as a kid will come back into play. And Ellie’s Neurology training, since I think that computer has all details about the Intersect.

      • alladinsgenie4u says:

        I remember fans commenting frequently that Chuck was hardly using the Intersect in this season. Maybe it was foreshadowing to what happened in the end of 4×07.I hope when he gets it back (if it’s gone /or his ability to use it(if it is suppressed – it will be more better.

        And s you say Faith, there are so many pieces of the puzzle. It will be really interesting to see how they connect in the near future.

      • atcdave says:

        Don’t worry about it JC, we always over think these things, its part of the fun. Then when 2 of your 19 ideas come out right you can claim a major victory. At least, that’s what I always do.

      • Faith says:

        JC, I think that’s the name of the game…we spec, we angst, we think but times like tonight where your mind is literally blown and all your expectations are exceeded are the best times.

        I know several people spec’d that Volkoff is Dalton…even through their hem and haw about him being totally un-Bond-ish people still spec’d it and I’m sure those people will say that the full picture is still nothing like they spec’d. It’s even more awesome.

        As for your thoughts, I’m leaning more towards how Ellie will find herself involved with all this. I think there’s something to be said about them being a family of spies and Ellie is a Bartowski.

        Alladins, while I don’t think the intersect is gone, I do however think (and like) that they’re calling into question Chuck’s destiny in a way…without the intersect. Like PapaB said, “you can do this, you’re a Bartowski.” RIP PapaB we have missed you.

        I also applaud TPTB for having the foresight to have had this vision play out the way it’s going. Yes it can all lead to a big let down of that’s it? But honestly the way it’s going I can almost guarantee that it won’t…they’ve managed to whet the appetite with tonight’s offering/twist and I think the main course is even more scrumptious.

      • atcdave says:

        More than ever I have that S2 feeling. To me, the excitement is so much like the Orion arc that season. This is the best spy story they’ve done since then; and C/S are in a better place, which just feels completely right. This is as good as I’ve seen.

      • alladinsgenie4u says:

        @Dave – you are so right when you say that it feels like the epic Orion arc of Season 2. I am hopeful that they will exceed those epic episodes with something more epic-er this year.

      • Faith says:

        Dave, no question.

        I think there’s a commitment to this arc that they didn’t have in S3 or in much of the arcs they’ve done apart from S2’s Orion arc. The reason I say that is because every step along the way seems to keep that in mind and the writing is done accordingly. I just don’t think they were fully committed to what was in S3 and the writing showed it.

      • JC says:

        Even though I saw the Volkoff twist coming Dalton was so great I didn’t care. And like Dave said this feels like the Orion arc on steroids. That was the best arc they’ve done and the seeds have been planted that this could surpass it.


        Totally agree with you about the commitment to what they’re writing. The show has that spark again. The writing, acting, plots are light years ahead of last season. The whole season has been that way but this episode really highlight the differences.

      • atcdave says:

        You know I’ve long had suspicions about the writing in S3. I know there’s career reasons for a writer to move on; but loosing three in the aftermath of S3? My suspicion has always been that the staff writers did share the enthusiasm for the story Schwedak was forcing on them; which is PART of why it just felt sloppy all season.

    • alladinsgenie4u says:

      The fight never looked like a fight to me. It was more like being disgruntled at each other.

      • Faith says:

        I think it was a fight. Not a drawn out…harsh words kind of thing, but considering the magnitude of what they’re fighting about and how it is they feel for each other it was a fight.

        I loved that Sarah wanted to talk. It’s funny because not that long ago she said it herself, “why do we have to talk and change…why can’t we just be?” and here she is knowing she made a mistake (in a way) and thinking talking about it will fix it…and it did. Old Sarah would probably have left it as, “I did what I had to do.” In fact she has on more than one occasion.

        I hasten to point out though…what happened to those people upset about Chuck and Sarah airing their dirty laundry during spy stuff? Tonight seems like fodder for their disgruntlement and yet to me it was a stroke of brilliance.

      • alladinsgenie4u says:

        Also loved the fact that she found their fighting to be exhausting (mentally). Faith, – I am still undecided about the fight’s resolution.Chuck wants Sarah to trust in him even when she thinks he is wrong – isn’t that a hazard in the spy life where it has been proven again and again that Chuck is still gullible and falls easy prey to outward appearances. Would love to read your detailed analysis about the fight’s resolution (when you have the time and inclination)

        I hasten to point out though…what happened to those people upset about Chuck and Sarah airing their dirty laundry during spy stuff?

        They conveniently kept quiet. Wonder why?

      • atcdave says:

        Well, as one of those who often dislikes the way Chuck brings up personal stuff on missions; I’d say this was just plain funny. The staging of it worked better than it often does too; when Chuck wants to talk feelings while sneaking through a tunnel together, it seems foolish and inappropriate. But in First Fight, they’ve been talking ABOUT the situation all episode without seeing each other. So we get a collision of sorts at the bank. I love the shot where you see Sarah and Mary approaching over Chuck’s shoulder, its like two storm fronts on a collision course. You almost feel sorry for the poor armed thugs who come between them. And the bickering in front of all the witnesses was very funny. It was just satisfying in every way.

    • thinkling says:

      Agree with all your thoughts, Faith. The Bartowski women scene, and yes, I’m including Sarah. The fight, just perfect.

      I agree. Whatever mom did with the intersect, she made it more, not less. Can’t wait to find out what.

      And the not revealing Chuck as her son, that occurred to me, too, but I was going to rewatch to verify. So thanks for that confirmation.

      It just doesn’t get any better than this, but I have a feeling it will anyway.

    • Paul says:

      I really liked the dichotomy of Frost when dealing with her kids. With Ellie, she’d the long lost Mom, all softness and tears. With Chuck, she’s the cold, calcualting spy. She has yet to show him that side yet.

      • thinkling says:

        Very interesting. She has to protect him is my take. BUT she revealed her soft side to him, through Sarah. Love this episode.

    • Crumby says:

      The re-use of One October Song was great. Loved it!

  24. Chuck604 says:

    It was an awesome episode. My wife and I think that Mama Bartowski flashed Chuck with a image that downloaded all of Steven Bartowski’s files and life’s works into the intersect. Though it will be interesting to how he will flash in the future again. Timothy Dalton playing Alexei Volkoff was great.

    • atcdave says:

      And I loved the strains of Russian orchestral music right before the reveal, perfect, beautiful.

      • thinkling says:

        I really have to take a class in music to better appreciate this show.

      • atcdave says:

        I just feel bad for not recognizing the piece; it seemed very clichéd Russian though. Like probably Tchaikovsky or Shostakovich but I can’t quite place it.

  25. alladinsgenie4u says:

    Wow!! Just wow!! Finally got around to seeing the episode and to use Faith’s words Mind F**ked. And the ending few scenes left me practically salivating with anticipation as to what may come down the road for out heroes. Almost no gripes except for Morgan’s lack of boundaries sense.

    -Just wanted to say that the C/S fight scene with the bad guys in the bank was very excellent- dare I say better than the Honeymooners fight.

    -Mary and Ellie scene with Sarah the listener – IMHO,one of the best emotional scenes in Chuck history. Both heartwarming and heart wrenching at the same time.

    -Mary is the ultimate professional- I still believe that she is good and her real deception will help bring Volkoff down.

    – I have a feeling that the laptop in the Mustang is going to play a huge role in the coming episodes. After watching the promo, I am leaning toward the fact that Chuck’s Intersect capabilities are present but have been suppressed by the device used by Mama B. In the end the laptop in the car may help Chuck get out of the suppression.

    -The whole sequence in Orion’s cave was enthralling and Mama B slipping the blade to Sarah is the ultimate approval. She knows that Sarah will protect Chuck, always.

    -Dalton as Tuttle and Volkoff – totally sold it. Pure genius at work.

    The comedy was also spot on – special mention to Dasha the scarred spy and the bank guard. And poor Morgan at the bar.

    Felt pity for Chuck’s innocence – his comprehension when people turn out to be betrayers is somewhat sad. Methinks, he needs to be a little bit more cynical.

    So many good things in this episode. These were what I recall immediately. Will watch it again and again this week.

    • Faith says:

      I am nothing if not articulate 😉 Mind F is perhaps the most apt I can be. To elaborate just short-changes the brilliance of what was.

      • alladinsgenie4u says:

        And I forgot to add that Rafe and LeFranc are hitting gold with every episode they write. This was one of their best. With a back order of 11 episodes,I hope these two get to write a lot more episodes.

      • JC says:

        Other writers have strong points, either romance, mythology or comedy. The same with characters, some write a great Chuck and Morgan or Sarah, Casey, etc. LeJudkins seem to have the voice of all the characters and the ability to balance the comedy, romance and action.

    • thinkling says:

      Agree with you Genie. Great episode.

      I don’t think that Chuck will ever learn to be cynical. Then he wouldn’t be Chuck. This has been a theme since Sandworm and was strongly emphasized again in Gravitron.

      However, I do think he will learn to rely on Sarah’s intuition. When Sarah trusts Chuck and his trust, her suspicion stays at the ready, just like in the basement. Though Chuck will never lose his capacity for trust, he may learn to suspend it for the sake of caution when Sarah’s alarm bell are chiming.

      If Chuck lost his capacity for trust, it would be as big a crisis as losing the intersect, which has become a part of him. Getting it back would be critical. As cautious as Sarah is, she would fight hardest of anyone to help Chuck retain or recover his capacity for trust.

  26. Tamara Burks says:

    Since Morgan is suppossed to be the Chuck of season one minus the Intersect , it is extremely interesting that Casey told him to come with because he wouldn’t learn anything by staying in the van. Looks like Casey’s the one who has learned something .

    • atcdave says:

      well and Morgan isn’t actually valuable! He is like Chuck in S1/S2 if nobody cared if he lived or died.

      Actually, Casey might want to rethink it a little. Anything happens to Morgan he’ll have a very POed Intersect and daughter to deal with.

    • Paul says:

      I think Casey is starting to gain a grudging respect for Morgan and what he CAN do vs. what he CAN’T do. The little bearded man may never be a competent spy, but he’s also fearless and can be counted on to at least try with all his might to watch your back.

    • atcdave says:

      It is funny how they can make fearless a virtue, as long as someone present has SENSE!

  27. odysszeuss says:

    Great episode. Because of “disaster”-story’s like the gas accident last time I lowered my spy expectations and now I’m pretty much impressed by this episode. I’m OK with this “disaster”-story’s because: they are only a “device” seeing my Chuck characters interact. But having a real spy story doesn’t hurt at all 😉

  28. herder says:

    One of the (many) complaints about season 3 was that they tethered Sarah to Shaw by some invisible chain and she never got to interact with anyone else. Last night it started out with Sarah, Casey and Beckman, there was a great comedy bit of Sarah and Morgan, a great dramatic bit of Sarah, Mary and Ellie as well as Sarah and Chuck stuff. The show works better when the characters get to interact with each other.

    • atcdave says:

      Amen brother! The show works best when they balance the characters and elements. I admit I could enjoy the lighter Chuck/Sarah stuff for quite a while, but the show is clearly better when its got everything going.

    • Crumby says:

      It’s good to see Sarah with other people, AND without Chuck. She needs to exist on her own in this family.

      • jason says:

        with chuck and sarah a couple, the writers are really free to explore all these relationships without worrying how any scene will affect CS. I don’t think the scene with the three ladies had any impact on chuck – sarah, if they were apart, that would have been the story, will that make them closer, farther apart, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah – this way – we just got to watch a great scene

        Seems like sarah has become the Bartkowski family’s dad, she has to make the hard choices, protect everyone, shoot people, shoo (bad pun) off morgan when he gets pesky, and deal with her neurotic girl friend – i.e. Chuck. Has chuck slowly lost his inner Carmicheal since episode 4.1’s fight and rescue scene?

      • atcdave says:

        That’s funny Jason. Chuck will always be the girl in some ways, but I like the way he steps up on occasion.

        Agree about how other character interactions are opened up; it does still have a bearing on the primary relationship, but indirectly because its all about family. I think Sarah sitting in on the Ellie/Mary talk is hugely important to how Sarah relates to Chuck; hopefully it means she’s getting the object lesson.

  29. sniderman says:

    Stellar fun episode, though there was one piece that bothered me. Not sure if it was a continuity error or deliberate.

    When Mama B. is surprised by Morgan’s appearance, she says something like “Morgan Grimes! I haven’t seen you since you were 9 years old!” She seems genuinely surprised and somewhat moved by his appearance. However, in Chuck Vs. The Anniversary, she sees both Chuck and Morgan on the video monitor. (“Oh Chuck….”) So did she not recognize Morgan at that time, or did she feign surprise in order to appear she softened at Morgan’s appearance thus gaining her meeting with Ellie?

    Food for thought?

    • Faith says:

      I kind of think that she was playing Morgan in Castle the way she was in a way being played. I mean think about it, in the end she got what she wanted and that is to be taken out of Castle (thereby setting the scene for Volkoff to come to her) and she got to see Ellie.

      But I think I’m leaning towards that mentality because I like the idea that there’s a separation between Family and everyone else for Mary Bartowski, Morgan is family but only so far as Chuck’s friend.

  30. jason says:

    Numbers come out in a few hours, should be interesting. What a great episode to smolder on for 2 weeks, nothing at all like after last season episode 7’s break disaster, possibly a near opposite feeling, TPTB deserve a bunch of credit for fixing the show.

    • herder says:

      It is quite a change from the end of episode 7 from season to season heading into a break. This year people are upbeat and excited, last year they were up in arms and sounding like a lynch mob.

  31. Big Kev says:

    I really have nothing to add to what’s been written above (especially Faith’s outstanding posts) but hopefully I’ll be more coherent after a couple more watches.
    For now I just want to add my plaudits – fantastic episode. Everything I love about this show distilled into 43 minutes of glorious TV. Writing, casting, acting, pacing, script – everything worked. Usually my favorite episodes are towards the end of the season when everything that has percolated through the season reaches a crescendo – this felt like a crescendo, and we’re only at episode 7. Wow.

  32. Gringo Chuck Fan says:

    Wow – I’m still smiling about the whole episode!
    I haven’t had a chance to rewatch – but I need to send out a few thoughts….
    Interesting the tone that Chuck feels free to take with Morgan [ rehearsing the fight] – there is no way in God’s Green Earth – he’d ever be able to carry that tone with Sarah….
    – but the conversation between the two was very funny. Chuck thinks he has the right to be angry –
    but at the same time – we see that he has Sarah lifted high on a pedistal… nice touch.
    Did not understand the Morgan/Casey fight???
    – not that it really matters though.

    I love the way that Mary has played Chuck!
    Actually I really love the spy plot that TPTB have woven into the story… best piece of work we’ve been treated to since the pilot I’d say.

    The pace and timing of this whole episode was excellent. Nothing ever dragged – and not once did it seem rushed.

    Its amazing the way this show can bring Ellie and Devon back into the important part of the story so quickly – even though we haven’t seen much of them for so long.
    Question – Who has been taking care of the ’68 Mustang all this time?
    Those old beauties need lots of TLC!
    I hope we get to meet the person that obviously has been working with/for S.B.

    I’m not sure how much it costs to film the show out in different locations – but it was so refreshing to see something other than the BuyMore – or Castle or the Apartments!!! More Please!!!

    The scene with the girls – as Mary meets Ellie.
    That certainly raised the bar for pulling the heart strings. [ Think I have some dust in my eye]
    Great touch – having Sarah in the background listening…. I wonder if we’ll ever get to meet her mother? I wonder if she even knows who her mother is???

    Fight at the bank was one of the better fight sequences – its great when Sarah and Chuck fight
    together… [ however you want to take that]
    “This fight is exhausting”…
    ” I’ve been thinking about you all day”… : )

    The Volkoff twist is not nearly as interesting as the handheld intersect device – and Chuck being de-intersected…. or maybe re-intersected?
    Wonder what it is that Stephen never wanted Chuck to see?

    Ellie in a ’68 Mustang convertible?
    Looks like someone now has their very own

    2 weeks – AGGGGGGGGGRRRRRRRRRRrrrrrr…….

    • Paul says:

      The Morgasy fight was mostly in Morgan’s head. I guess he was still a bit ticked at being made “the Magnet”…..

      • Crumby says:

        I liked that they used last ep scene for that. They anticipated it and it allowed to not have a useless scene in that ep to settle the fight between Casey and Morgan. That was well played between the writers.

  33. herder says:

    The early metered market ratings are in and while they are notoriously difficult to translate into overnight ratings and demos it looks like we went up. This would be impressive against football and the world series. We’ll know for certain in less than two hours

    • jason says:

      the guy that often writes the early release hates chuck but ignoring his words, isn’t 3.7/6 up – isn’t that ‘6’ number normally 5? or am I looking at the wrong things or in the wrong way?

    • Rick Holy says:

      I’m sure hoping it’s “up,” because this would have been a great episode for the new or even casual or former viewer to see – and then tune in regularly. If we are “up,” hope the week off doesn’t hurt us.

  34. Eli says:

    The episode was mind blowing and I can’t add anything to what people (very wise people) said… except… Am I the only one bothered by Chuck’s line “Really believe in me. Even when you think I’m wrong.”

    That’s… that’s crazy. It’s a logical fallacy. So what? Now nobody can criticize anything he does? Is his word dogma? What if I don’t think you’re wrong, I know you’re wrong? If I think you’re wrong then I don’t trust you?

    And I thought “I never asked you to believe me. I asked you to trust me,” (Sarah Walker dixit) was the biggest pile of bullsh*t I ever heard.

    I’m weird, am I not? I mean, I think I was the only one that didn’t mind Chuck’s complaints because in real world he would have been removed from last episode’s operation immediately. There is no way a cop whose mother is the prime suspect would be in charge of the police investigation. In real life people with a personal interest/conflict in a matter can’t be involved in said matter.

    I’m sorry if I sounded harsh. It wasn’t my intention. I don’t have any real problem with the episode or Chuck, it’s just that that line… it was weird.

    • jason says:

      eli – there were a fair amount of logical fallacies in the plot (chuck waltzing in to see his mom, the convertible waiting for ellie for 6 months or 20 years in pristine shape, etc) – I said this last season, I will repeat, when chuck and sarah are working as a couple (even in a fight scene), as long as they are in a state of ‘together’, this show works, their relationship is the epicenter of this show, everything else spins about them, exists because of them, they have to be working for the show to work

      By the way, that is why CS angst has repeatedly failed in this show

      • Rick Holy says:

        Jason, I’m with you on the CS aspect. This show could have EASILY been called “Chuck & Sarah” and might have even been a BETTER show because instead of being Chuck-centric, it could have been equally focused on both of their stories. Yes, we get a little glimpse of the Sarah story here and there – but nothing like Chuck’s. I’m not in any way saying the show is “bad” as it stands or that I don’t enjoy it – I do! But I wonder how it could have possibly been different/better if the “Sarah” aspect was highlighted more. Thoughts anyone? [And please don’t say “look at Undercovers, it’s about THE COUPLE and it’s doing pretty poorly. Undercovers ain’t no CHUCK! :)].

        Anyway, just like a Sunday homily, even a good one could always have been better. Same goes for TV programs – even our favorite one!! 😉

        Take care, all. Keep on Chuckin’!!

      • jason says:

        rick – I am happy the way things are, I am not a big fan of looking back. For example, if the show was CS centric by title, maybe TPTB would have been extra careful not to put them together too soon. It would be interesting to ask of Fedak.

        I don’t know if you read my post earlier this week or the original by judkins in an interview, but he more or less implied that the shaw failure arc, may have pushed the room toward a quicker, stronger CS coupling than otherwise would have occurred.

        Fun to guess, the journey, although far from perfect, seems to be on a course right now. Seems like a wide range of fans liked 4×7, from shippers like me to those who prefer a meatier plot and intrigue. That won’t always happen, but sure is great for the show when it does.

      • herder says:

        Jason, if I am thinking of the same interview with Rafe Judkins he was attempting to explain why the Shaw arc was necessary. I thought that he said something like if those issues hadn’t been explored then Chuck and Sarah probably wouldn’t be together. Then he seemed to acknowlege the fact that what he was saying was a bit extreem by saying well probably they would. The point being that I didn’t take the interview as explaining why they are where they are as much as an attempt to defend the indefesible.

      • jason says:

        the first time I posted about it I made the same point and sort of agree with exactly how you worded your interpretation too, my only point is to Father Rick’s ? about if CS had been the title of the show, and the story had more been on both of them equal, we really don’t know how it all would have evolved. As it did, in my humble opinion, it became a neat love story, just as written.

        I really tend to not be a love story guy, I watch all of smallville, and sort of laughed at near everyone posting here for example, who cares, clark ends up with lois, the story has been on the books for like 65 years.

        But chuck and sarah, it caught me off guard, and yep, I do feel ‘fatherly’ toward both of them, and see lots of their story in myself 30 years ago, as well as in my child and his girlfriend of now 5 years (her mom left when she was 5, lives 10 miles from her, they walk by each other on the street, don’t know each)

      • weaselone says:

        Jason, chuck disabled the security cameras and it’s seemed to clear to me that Casey and Sarah just looked the other way when he walked in despite what they had said to Beckman.

        As for the ’68 Mustang. There was a bit of dialogue between Devon and Ellie that suggested that someone had been caring for the car prior to them picking it up. The care hadn’t been sitting in the open for months, rather this individual had left the vehicle their for them to pick up.

      • Faith says:

        Hey! 😛

        It’s still beautiful. It’s not what it’s how. Clois ♥.

      • alladinsgenie4u says:

        @Jason and Herder – I apologize if I am mistaken but if my memory serves me right, the interview was of Lauren LeFranc where she was asked what would they change about Season 3? She replied ” We know how everyone feels about Shaw. But would C/S have gotten together if Shaw wasn’t there. Then she said ” Of course they would have, but still” To me it looked like even the writers knew perfectly well that C/S getting together was not dependent on the dreaded PLIs but they still took that route.

      • alladinsgenie4u says:

        @Jason and herder – Got the link to the Q&A with Lauren


        And the excerpt in question is :

        Q:Something she’d change from S3 if there was a rewind button

        A: Well we all know how everyone feels about Shaw, but everything that was done in Season 3 was important for all the characters’ growth. And who knows if Chuck and Sarah would be together if Shaw hadn’t been around… Okay, they probably would be, but still!

      • Rick Holy says:

        I don’t know if my “response” is going to show up in the right place in this thread, but in reference to the interview with the writer who said that if not for the Shaw Arc, Chuck and Sarah wouldn’t be “together” right now (i.e., Season 4).

        I have two bones of contention. First, in a sense, although not “official,” the WERE already “together” at the end of S2 – before the advent of Shaw. And second, are the writers honestly telling us that if there was no Shaw in S3, that by this point in S4, Chuck and Sarah STILL wouldn’t be “together?” That we’d still be dealing with all the “will they, won’t they” angst and assorted bogus reasons for keeping them apart?

        If that’s the case, they would have lost me by now. You can only “keep them apart” for so long. I’m no writer (of TV shows), but I think you COULD have found a way to have a “different” S3 and still have them “together” either during S3 or for certain in S4. Shaw was simply not necessary.

        Whoever commented above about “defending the indefensible,” I see your point. I have faith, but it’s not blind faith. And I have loyalty to CHUCK, but it’s certainly not blind loyalty.

        As one of my favorite lines from one of the best (Clint Eastwood) movies ever made [The Outlaw Josey Wales] goes, “Don’t p**s down my back and tell me it’s rainin’!!

        Don’t mean this to be a rant although it may appear to come off that way. I’m just trying to defend the intelligence of (the remaining = US) CHUCK fans out there! I didn’t bring the SHAW thing up, so I’m not trying to re-live it, but since it WAS brought up, I thought I’d respond with my 2 cents.

      • atcdave says:

        Rick, I am of the camp that wishes the show had been “Chuck and Sarah” from the beginning. I don’t think having co-leads guarantees anything though about the relationship would have been handled. My only point in saying that is I wish they would spend more time on Sarah centered material and looking at things from her perspective; instead the idea “Sarah is an enigma” that seems to be hard wired into the show.
        I think we have what we have, because it clearly was the best way to do it through the first two seasons. But they shot themselves in the foot by marginalizing Sarah in S3; and at this point enigmatic Sarah is really counter-productive to the show. Which of course, is why she isn’t as much of one anymore. I just wish we’d have more moments like last night with both Sarah/Morgan and Sarah/Ellie/Mary scenes.

        Does that make sense? I’d like more Sarah time. But its a pretty small complaint. After a terrible S3 for Sarah I’m pretty happy with where things are now.

      • Rick Holy says:

        oops! Sorry. I didn’t see the actual REAL quote from the writer, only what one of our posters THOUGHT the writer said.

        So I withdraw my comments (at least most of them). 😉 They were based on a misquote (apparently).

      • JC says:

        You also have to remember that they’re staff writers who answer to Fedak and Schwartz. No matter their personal opinions they’re going to spew the company line.

        Look at what happened with Chloe Sevigny after she voiced her opinions about Big Love. She was honest and then had to back track on her comments.

        If anything that one interview with Routh gave us the biggest hint of what was going on. The show will have to be off the air for awhile before we hear any honest opinions.

      • atcdave says:

        Re. the interview; its really just silly nonsense and double talk. The whole front 13 was a fubar and I’m sure everyone knows. They just can’t SAY that. Especially the newer writers who still have to keep the boss happy. Do you expect them to say “Schwartz made the writers do one of the stupidest stories ever put on television and badly undermined the characters and canon we have to work with”?

        Rick I agree entirely, the most obvious thing as that Chuck and Sarah WERE together at the end of S2. They insulted the loyalty and intelligence of their fans by giving us another round of wt/wt. The good news is they learned from their mistake; I’m pretty comfortable saying that now after questioning it last week.

      • jason says:

        did not mean to bring incite a nest of angry hornets, if you read carefully what I said, I simply am making the point, you don’t know how S4 plays if S3 was written differently.

        Everything changes – the Edith Kieller conundrum.

        Let me ask rhetorically, if you had a choice of 7 years of wt/wt for the show chuck with no season 3, or CS married sometime in season 4 and THIS season 4 we now have, but must take season 3’s misery arc, which would you choose?

        Plus, IMO, Judkins indeed did tell us shaws failure caused them to advance the story, he quickly backed away from that when he realized that what he said was somewhat controversial, which I am sure Fedak / Schwartz would not like. Heck. look how it riled all of you guys up.

      • jason says:

        dave – I don’t know about CS obviously together in 2×22 – she still said yes to bryce b4 she said no, and 6 eps earlier nearly moved away with Cole, and very passionately returned his advances.

        I could have easily seen TPTB give us several more seasons of wt/wt, had they kept the other interests PLI’s and 1-2 episode arcs. Once they did what they did with the shaw misery arc, it was over, game, set, match, they wrote themselves into a corner.

      • atcdave says:

        Jason there was no angry hornet’s nest, we were just having fun with an awkward interview.

        I don’t think 2.22 mattered that much on a Charah level. The assignment issue was professional (no matter how Chuck took it), and Sarah decided to quit to be with Chuck within a few hours anyway. And Cole never anything, in no universe would Sarah have left with him.
        I really think, to the vast majority of casual viewers, 2.21 was the critical moment. Shaw, Hannah and Prague don’t matter. Remember even Mo Ryan commented on this at Comic-Con 2009. NO continuation of the wt/wt would have been accepted by a large percent of the fan base for S3. 2.21 was the game changer, TPTB simply failed to realize it at the time. Judkins is simply mistaken in placing the onus on Shaw. Shaw may have been the tangible proof, but Colonel made it inevitable.

      • Faith says:

        Jason I’m still peeved at the smallville jab 😛 😉

      • jason says:

        faith – I really like smallville, honest, I watch it live most of the time, except the arcs where lex and lana got together – but even those arcs – I got it – lex & clark, and lana & clark were both clicking way to well early on, they had to do something to get the story back on line. I just found no stimulation of any sort in the wt/wt for clois, I watched it already, George Reeves and Noel Neill – LOL

        So I liked the show – really like it, I just was not moved in any way shape or form by the wt/wt.

        I am really enjoying season 10, I read somewhere that season 11 is possible, even though they announced 10 is the end. Season 10 they are doing the young lois and clark as well as it ever was done.

      • atcdave says:

        Agree about Smallville S10, its the best the show has been in a long time. But we’re way past due for the cape. The only way I see an S11 working is if they bite the bullet and buy the rights for the costume and name already!

      • Faith says:

        lol I was just teasing. But agreed, somewhat. It’s funny because in some ways I like their antagonistic-sarcastic-friendship that developed into love more than had it been infatuation all along. But can you explain how Chuck and Sarah snuck by you? The writings been on the wall for me since somewhere in between “fixing her phone and defusing bombs with viruses.”

        Dave, agreed. Personally I think they should continue. Keep the name as smallville (since that’s what she calls him) but be set entirely in metropolis and as superman. In a way they left themselves leeway to do that with his dream having been 2013.

      • atcdave says:

        I’d be happy to watch, but they face an even more challenging situation than Chuck. Can they actually write an adult (ish) relationship? Smallville is the poster child for teen angst, but ten years in they need to be well past it. They’ve given us a fun romance this season (by my measure, its the first time they’ve EVER succeeded on that show); it will be a completely different show if it continues this way.

      • Rick Holy says:

        I think Smallville ROCKS, too. This season HAS been the best in the last few. Will miss it when it’s gone – but a 10 year run? OUTSTANDING!! I was psyched to have had Kristin Kreuk appear on CHUCK last season. And you can’t blame “Hannah” – she was an innnocent in the whole S3 mess.

        One of the great things about CHUCK has been the great variety of guest stars. I don’t think there’s a current show that has the variety of guest stars that CHUCK has. Not going to beat a dead horse any more into the bottle of glue that it already is, but it makes you wonder “what if” Chuck was on a different night/time.

        Before NBC decides to cancel it – and eventually they will – it would be interesting to see how it would fare on another night/time.

        But if we can keep surviving and get a fifth season being on Monday nights, then “what the heck,” keep it there. Only if you’re going to axe it do I say “move it” as a last chance effort.

        It’s kind of like Castle. Face it. That wasn’t a highly rated program. Then you put it AFTER a highly rated show like DWTS and suddently it takes off. Just sayin’.

      • Faith says:

        Dave, based on this season (and last IMO) I think they’ve got it in them. I’m always going to be fearful they’ll get stupid and do something dumb but I can definitely see the potential.

      • atcdave says:

        Oh yeah Faith, Clark and Lois are fun when well written. And no offense intended towards Jason, but I much prefer the two more recent attempts at this romance than anything from the 1960s. If (big IF) they continue as is, we have a stoic Clark and impish/energetic Lois that clash and needle each other in a charming sort of way.

        I don’t have the sort of “point of no return” mentality that I do about Chuck, I’m just not nearly as invested. But I still think I would be very disappointed if they backslid. As far as that goes, I’ll be perfectly happy if they quit the show rather than mess it up. (and seriously, they better not dare continue if they don’t buy the costume; “The Blur” was cute once or twice, not as a staple for three seasons!)

    • weaselone says:

      I think you’re expanding the meaning of that line well beyond it’s intent. The fight they were having was about Sarah thinking he was wrong about his mother and then compounding it by going behind his back to take down his mother because she didn’t believe he was capable of handling things.

      There are obviously going to be times when Sarah and Chuck disagree on what is to be done. When one or both “know” something. Chuck’s not asking for Sarah never to question him or to fall in line, but she needs to consult with him as opposed to acting unilaterally.

    • Eli says:

      Jason – I meant it was literally a “logical fallacy” 🙂 A “ignoratio elenchi,” I think.

      Rick Holy – I thought the show was already called “Chuck and Sarah” 😉

      Weasealone said: “The fight they were having was about Sarah thinking he was wrong about his mother and then compounding it by going behind his back to take down his mother because she didn’t believe he was capable of handling things.”

      And he wasn’t. He told her that himself in episode 6. Look, Sarah has personal experience with exactly the same thing. She couldn’t hand over her father, when she knew, no suspect, knew that he was a criminal.

      Again, I don’t want to stir an argument, I don’t have big troubles with Chuck’s behavior, it’s just that the line could be better worded.

      I am weird, OK? 🙂

      • Eli says:

        I mean, I really LOVED the episode. I’ve done crazy things like re-watching the images of the device Mama B puts in front of Chuck frame by frame, hoping to see something that could give me a hint.

        Some weird deformed images… but I don’t really know if they mean something or they’re only random images they needed to make weird deformations.

  35. herder says:

    There you go, 5.46 million viewers and 2.0 in the demo. Honestly, I was worried about a dip due to the combination of football and world series, so this is better than expected, still hope for a tick up in the finals.

    • thinkling says:

      Wow. That’s great … and a great episode to have more people tuned in! TD may have had a draw, and now people can be captured by the great story.

    • Faith says:

      Wooooo hoooo.

      Ok either I’m suffering from major lack of sleep (true) or I’m inordinately happy about a .1 raise (also true), either way good stuff.

  36. JC says:

    Something I want to give LeJudkins credit for. They didn’t shy away from the obvious similarities between the MEB arc and the Irina Derevko one on Alias. By having Tuttle mention it in a scene that was taken straight from Alias was brilliant. It was like they were saying, yes we know and we don’t care.

  37. JC says:

    I mentioned this scene when the EPK’s came out but it was so good I wanted to again. The awkward moment between Chuck and Mary when he mentions his relationship problem. Something just clicks when those two are together and Linda nailed it with her struggling to be a mom there. You could see she wanted to talk to him about it but felt completely uncomfortable on how to do it. So many shades of early Sarah in that scene.

    What I love is that it flips the usual parenteral dynamic on its head. Usually its the mom who worries about the son and the father who fears for the daughter. But we saw Mary still sees Ellie as her little girl and sees Chuck as a spy who can take care of himself. Compare that to Orion who saw Chuck as the one who needed protecting.

  38. Crumby says:

    Loved Mary and Tuttle joining with the “fine”s during the fight. That was hilarious!

  39. herder says:

    One thing that I didn’t pick up on the first viewing is the similarity of the opening scene with Mama B in handcuffs looking balefully at the camera, isn’t that very much like the hospital scene in T2?

    Another thing that I noticed is at the end when Volkov is setting bombs in the stacks there is an intersect cube on one of the shelves, maybe the plans are in the flash that Mama B gave Chuck.

    I particularly like the lambs in the truck scene, Tuttle going on in what I presume is a rustic Welsh accent. Oh and Sarah’s reason for not telling Chuck, to prevent him from committing treason, she knows her guy, he definitely would have let his mother go. So many clever little bits.

    • jason says:

      herder, second view is better than the first, a great sign, no FF’s for me, although one scene will get it on the 3rd view probably:

      The ‘protect him’ mary whispered to sarah as she slipped her the razor blade may have been ‘protect them’, which to me is far cooler, maybe my ears just wanted to hear that, I slowed it down and tried to read her lips, I can’t absolutely tell, can anyone else?

    • Big Kev says:

      Definitely rustic – but a Yorkshire accent, rather than a Welsh one.

  40. Big Kev says:

    Just wanted to share something I read on the Chuck Google Group page (thanks to Agent Aardvark for the info)…..last nights ep was directed by Allan Kroeker. Apparently he has also directed Nacho Sampler, Lethal Weapon Seduction, Marlin and Wookie.
    Don’t know about anyone else – but I think that is a pretty stellar list. Big props to Allan Kroeker.

  41. kg says:

    Frost is exceptional as advertised. Chuck wasn’t difficult to get to bite, or better yet, push all his chips in. The whole key to the successful execution of the ruse was to turn Sarah.

    And while I believe Frost’s interaction with Ellie was genuinely heartfelt and real, the master spy also deftly used that time to emotionally wear out Sarah. And then at the bank, the poor kid, after learning her boyfriend had told everybody of their troubles, finally relented.

    That’s OK. Her capacity to be a real person underneath the hardened professional, yearning to love and be loved and wanting to fit into the fabric of a family is one of the things that makes Sarah special in addition to her spy skills, savvy and obvious beauty.

    I’m just surprised and disappointed they both let their guard down and allow Frost to roam free unattended. I don’t necessarily question letting Chuck’s mom go and I appreciate why. Ironically, after making her decision, Sarah’s spy sense should have been pinning. While it was noble and sweet to uncuff Mary for her man’s sake, she should have still trusted her own judgement, instincts and suspicions. Probably a nitpick, but I still love Sarah. She’s awesome.

    Frost again displays her keen sense for detail. Specifically handing Sarah the razor in order to not arouse the suspicions of Volkoff. And from what’s she’s seen of Sarah, it allowed Mary a brief moment to convey to Sarah her approval as a girlfriend who genuinely loves and cares for her son and a woman nearly as competent as her. A strong and dedicated woman she believes worthy of her son’s love and able enough to protect him.

    • herder says:

      Think back to Beckman’s comment to Chuck in Couch Lock about a true spy being willing to use their team as bait. Mama B is willing to use her own son as bait/put him at risk, certainly something that Sarah Walker, spy that she is won’t do.

      • kg says:

        Right Herder. NEVER EVER. While some have made comparisons of the two women, that is the fundamental major difference.

      • Faith says:

        Great point. I think we’re supposed to believe that they’re the same person up to a point and how they are with the people they love—the decisions they make makes that key distinction.

      • atcdave says:

        I hope that’s something that doesn’t change; its always been one of my favorite things about Sarah, she’s the super spy with a conscience. Its almost an oxymoron, and certainly she’s been tested with some no win situations (Mauser), but four seasons in she’s still a wonderful and admirable character.

    • Tamara Burks says:

      When Morgan acidentally touched Sarah’s chest , he referred to her icy exterior and in season 3 he referred to her as an ice queen for breaking Chuck’s heart .Sarah’s the ice queen and mama b’s the Frost queen , both have done a lot of damage to Chuck’s heart.

      I wonder if they already had the idea of Mama B firmly created in thier head at that point or did they just decide to run with it once they decided Mama B was the next arc and did that little bit at the end of Ring 2.

  42. herder says:

    For the longest time I’ve been trying to think of what Morgan reminds me of in his suit. Then it came to me on Monday night, he looks like one of the characters from Falcon and the Snowman, a Sean Penn movie from the eighties about a california kid who gets over his head in the espionage business. It has the same cheesey polyester three piece suits.

  43. herder says:

    I’m wondering about the title Phase Three, could that refer to what Mama B did with the PSP and the Orion computer in the car. Phase one could be the download Chuck got as a kid, Phase two would be the versions of the intersect that Chuck got from Bryce and in the Ring. Phase three would be this new thing that was started at the end of First Fight.


    • alladinsgenie4u says:

      Interesting hypothesis. And the brief synopsis of 4×09 hasn’t given even a vague clue as to what Phase Three might be. If it’s Intersect 3.0, I hope TPTB come up with something new and cool – skills related

    • joe says:

      Sorry I’ve been so quiet. Real life, you know.

      This *is* good speculation! When I first heard the title, my gut said something else, though, something like this is about a new phase of Chuck’s life. Pre-intersect, Intersect and then Post-Intersect.

      I don’t believe *that*, of course, any more than I would think it’s about Chuck “Pre-Sarah, Sarah and Post-Sarah”. But the “phase of life” idea still sticks in my brain.

      • Ernie Davis says:

        Geeze Joe, there you go letting life get in the way of your hobbies again. I hate when that happens. Too often lately frankly.

    • atcdave says:

      I think something Intersect related is most plausable. But I’m not sure how to break it down. We’ve called the current version 2.0 for so long, it stands to reason the next major change would be 3.0; but we’ve never seen “Phase” attached to it before. Some of these titles have been pretty arcane, or even secondary elements of the story (The titled “Cubic Z” was a cute bit, bit hardly the main part of the episode). It will be a lot easier to guess after 4.08 runs!

    • Ernie Davis says:

      I think the PSP was a modification, and we will find out about it in Phase 3. But silly me, I put my rather lengthy spec in the speculation post before I caught up here. Hint, the Hero’s Journey is involved.

  44. Judy says:

    Intersect 3.0

  45. jason says:

    I watched the ep for the 3rd time last night, I really liked the first fight scene in the bank.

    The expressions on Mama B and Dalton’s faces during the CS lines were priceless. Sarah scored a great zinger that got both the acting vets nod of approval with her calling chuck on the carpet for talking to everyone else. Then mary sort of put an end to it with a very motherly and somewhat epic – ‘kids – that’s enough’. Then when sarah said I got the big guy and chuck whined – I can take a big guy too, finally the fight itself, ‘this is exhausting, yea, no fighting with you, etc’ – if TPTB could just bottle the essence of what worked in that scene, they could sell it to every major network in the world – priceless.

    the FF button did get used a little bit, chuck and morgan in the castle, morgan in the restuarant, morgan with casey in the buy more, morgan fooling around with the vest in the truck & morgan fooling around with the gun on the mission … but heck, I still liked a couple of morgan scenes, he just seems to wiggle his way into every scene. I loved when casey smacked him upside the head when Morgan tried to go in with mary and sarah and get into the scene with the 3 ladies – ok casey didn’t smack him, but he should have & and I also loved the creepy morgan sarah scene.

  46. alladinsgenie4u says:

    After my fourth re-watch of the episode I found some things still bugging me.

    – Chuck going to Morgan every time for relationship advice is getting stale and old and to be frank starting to stink a little. The writers are so hell bent on making Morgan as the “oh so wise guy” on all things under the sun that it’s starting to make Chuck look stupid in comparison to Morgan – and we all know that Chuck is way,way smarter than Morgan. Chuck’s line about choosing sides in the fight is just one example of making him look like a whining teenage girl. IMHO,the writers have to be careful here. Do they intend to stick with Chuck being consistently neurotic? As I said above, it’s kind of getting old and starting to jar the sensibilities. And if we go by the synopsis of 4×08, we can surely expect some more neurotic and insecure moments from Chuck – i hope I am wrong

    -As for the fight- although I believe Chuck was justified in being angry – his statement at the end that he wants Sarah to believe in him even if he was wrong – still does not sit as right with me, because earlier during the fight he told her that not telling him before hand about Mama B was unfair- to follow that up,a statement like “believe in me to do the right thing” would have been more appropriate.


    • Tamara Burks says:

      I think he’s kind of stuck with going to Morgan because Morgan knows both sides of his life and the I’m also in the CIA aspect of the issue. Even so we find out that he does go to Ellie but obviously we didn’t see that and Ellie could have said that maybe Sarah wasn’t allowed to because you aren’t in the CIA and telling you would be some kind of national security violation.

      The only other person he could go to would be Casey and we all know Casey wouldn’t stand for it for long.

      • alladinsgenie4u says:

        I understand that Chuck was angry after the events of 4×06 – but not talking to Sarah completely negates what happened in 4×04. Wasn’t the whole episode all about C/S working towards better communication.

        And not talking to Sarah immediately was Morgan’s foolish advice – wasn’t he the one who told Chuck to cool off and all the while citing his first fight with Casey as an example. And what does he do immediately – goes and confronts Casey about his grievances. Talk about not practicing what you preach. And later on when he talked to Sarah wasn’t he the one who used the word “crisis” to describe the C/S fight – and Sarah was troubled by that. So, he inadvertently made it sound worse. And that is my biggest beef with using Morgan as relationship counselor. It makes the main characters (in this case Chuck and Sarah appear incompetent and stupid). Also by not talking to Sarah did Chuck really cool off – no, he went around babbling to a lot of people (it would have been sort of okay if he hadn’t gone to Morgan,at least went to Ellie and stopped at that)

    • atcdave says:

      I think it was one of those things just played for laughs. It doesn’t hold up well under scrutiny, and seriously, fans like us are likely the only ones even thinking about it. I would prefer much less of Morgan, and Chuck and Sarah resolving all their issues in a rational way; but I think the show will always go for a laugh if there’s one to be had. And the fight was all played for laughs.

  47. Chanman says:

    OK I know I’m pretty late, and because of that, and the giant activity rate around here I didn’t read all the comments, so don’t be pissed if I’m repeating theories already writen.

    Really great episode btw!:D

    So I just wanted to share my theory about the mysterious PSP. I think it’s the Intersect 2.5, which means it integrates all the information and abilities into Chucks brain, so that he doesn’t have to flash every time he wants to use the Chuckfu for example! He just knows how to all the time. That’s the reason he isn’t able to flash at the end. But that means that the Intersect is permanently fused with his brain, without a chance of removing it. And that’s why Stephen/Orion didn’t wanted him to see it!

    Maybe he still has to flash when it comes to information stuff, but we haven’t seen him do that for a while so…

    Oh and I have no idea why the laptop is in the car, or what it is good for.

    • Chanman says:

      I forgot! I hope they aren’t going to give Ellie an Intersect too using the laptop. Although it would be funny if Morgan would get the 1.0 version:D!

    • joe says:

      Heh! But if you don’t read all the comments, then you’re missing the best part, Chanman! 😉

      Welcome to the discussion.

      I like the theory, but I’m still sort of leaning to the idea that it’s all new data, and NOT government intel. It’s everything that Orion had uncovered and stored in the “Orion Cave”, plus a lot of engineering, science and C++ Programming-Fu that only Stephen understood! – the stuff Stephen didn’t want him to see. I’m guessing it (temporarily) messed up the Intersect by the sheer weight of all the bits, bytes and double-long words contained in that “PSP”.

      • Chanman says:

        Yeah I know! 😀

        And speaking about knowing, your theory seems more likely, just because the history of the show, and because there is no way they would let such a big pile of new storylines get blown to nothing!

  48. Pingback: Episode of the Week: Chuck vs The First Fight (4.07) | Chuck This

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