Speculations: 4.10 Chuck vs. The Leftovers

Guess who's coming to dinner.

It’s pretty clear what’s going on in this picture. Sarah’s gun is trained on Alexei Volkoff, no doubt. And Chuck? His eyes are focused on Mary Elizabeth Bartowski, and the only way I can think to describe the look in his eyes is stunned amazement. “Ellie? Guess who’s coming to dinner!”

You can click on the picture to embiggen; Trust me. It’s even more startling full size.

I can understand why Volkoff has returned. He’s got a job to finish! He wanted to get rid of this pesky Agent Carmichael after all, this spy who seems to have been a protégé of that even peskier Orion character. But why is Frost still on his arm? Apparently Alexei hasn’t figured out yet that she’s the reason he failed the first time, which is interesting in and of itself. She’s good; a master deceiver, and he knows it.

Chuck: Oh, I’m such an idiot. Sarah, after everything I knew about my mom, everything I learned about my mom, I still trusted her anyway. That’s really great spy work.

Sarah: You know, Chuck, even in the spy-world where everything is run by deceit, you still manage to somehow genuinely trust people. You know what? That’s what I love about you.

Is he the reason she left Chuck’s dad, or his Volkoff forcing Frost to prove herself? I’m sure she’s no longer fooling Chuck and Sarah, but is Frost still fooling us and Ellie too?

[Joe waves his paw in the air.] Oh, of course not. She’s still Ellie’s mother, trying to protect her and her unborn grandchild. You have to believe that. Right?

What leads up to this?

Then again, Mary Elizabeth seems to be thwarting Stephens plans for Chuck (“He never wanted you to see this.”) when she used the PSP to suppress the Intersect. We hope Gandalf, uh, Orion, is busy re-thwarting these plans posthumously with Ellie and her laptop, but it doesn’t seem like Mama B is often wrong about such things. She’s just too sharp a cookie!

Nothing but questions, and that’s only my big one about Mary Elizabeth Bartowski. My even bigger question is what would cause Chuck to hold Sarah so protectively in this picture? Why that look of concern – or is it determination? Is Sarah consoling him, perhaps? Right now your guess is as good as mine, but whatever it is, it looks like a thousand emotions expressed all at once. Maybe it has something to do with Chuck getting back his ability to flash. Or maybe it’s because he still can’t flash.

Or maybe Chuck’s proposed.

All I know is that it’s been a loooog week of anticipation.

– joe

Late Addition: Here’s another promo. Not spoilerish, but exciting! “Now hand Frost the damn PHONE!

About joe

In my life I've been a professor, martial artist, rock 'n roller, rocket scientist, lover, poet and brain surgeon. I'm lying about the brain surgery.
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345 Responses to Speculations: 4.10 Chuck vs. The Leftovers

  1. OldDarth says:

    Speccing that the laptop PapaB left Ellie is a Intersect Maintenance Manual and Toolkit. With PapaB gone, Chuck will need someone to look after his mental health. Who better than the neuroscience inclined Ellie?

    Ellie will be able to help reactivate the Intersect via the toolset. Most likely initiating a reboot so Chuck can integrate the PSP update with the Intersect 2.0.

    This would be a nifty way of having Ellie come to terms with her family history, come to grips with Chuck being a spy, allow her to continue with ‘looking after’ Chuck, and give Chuck her blessing to pursue his(their) destiny.

    This will allow Ellie and Devon to be more involved in the spy world short of taking part in actual missions. They will become the team doctors.

    The benefits to this are huge. More Ellie and Devon, look at how great it has been with Morgan in the spy world, involvement in the main storyline is a total win scenario.

    Very hopeful and excited to see if that is what will come to play.

    • atcdave says:

      That’s what I’m hoping for. They did use Intersect sound effects for the laptop in Phase 3; I hope they don’t have Ellie Intersected, unless it’s very short term and played for laughs.

    • JC says:

      I had similar thoughts about Papa B leaving Ellie the means to fix the 2.0. I’m still hoping the PSP is an upgrade out sorts. It’d be cool if it somehow related back to the Alpha Intersect but I doubt it.

      I do think we’ll see a scene between Ellie and Chuck like we did between Chuck and Orion in Living Dead. Ellie will finally accept Chuck’s choice.

      My wishful thinking is that what Ellie and Devon saw at the end of Phase Three was a video message from Orion. In in it he explained his work and their family’s connection to the spy world. It’d be even better if they were playing dumb during dinner but were clued into who Volkoff was.

    • joe says:

      I like the spec., Lou. But I’m also hoping that all the information that was destroyed with the Orion Cave reappears. I suspect it was in the PSP along with the Intersect block.

      • OldDarth says:

        Believe the PSP update was solely the Orion Cave Intel. The block was unforeseen by MamaB and likely due to software incompatibility between the PSP and Intersect 2.0.

      • joe says:

        But, but-but that would mean my beloved mentor, hero and idol Stephen made a MISTAKE!

        Impossible! No way! I won’t hear of it!

        Or… [doubt appears on Joe’s brow.]


      • atcdave says:

        Is this pure guesswork OD or is there a spoiler I missed? I’d been assuming she knew she was suppressing the Intersect because of the “protect him” line. I realize that proves nothing, it was just the impression I got. Like maybe it was suppressed so Volkoff or The Belgian wouldn’t be able to get ahold of Chuck’s intel. I know that’s a reach since she couldn’t have known he’d be captured.

      • JC says:

        There hasn’t been any spoilers Dave but I think it’s putting things together.

        Her comment about Orion not wanting Chuck to see it, knowing where it was. The PSP seemed like a plan that Orion and Mary had in place long before Chuck uploaded the 2.0. The protect him line seemed to be her passing the torch to Sarah. Mary tried to protect him but he’s on Volkoff’s radar now.

      • Paul says:

        I was always under the impression that Frost surpressed the intersect then allowed Chuck and Sarah to look like they died to get them Chuck off of Volkoff’s radar. The problem IMHO was that Frost underestimated her son’s persistence. Chuck keeps foiling her plans to “kill” him which requires her ot up the ante the next time.

      • OldDarth says:

        Joe, PapaB could not foresee the creation of Intersect 2.0.

        This is all spec based on what is known so far.

      • OldDarth says:

        Dave et al, I am seeing many with the same conclusion that MamaB knowingly suppressed the Intersect because of the Protect him line.

        I took that as a general statement myself.

        Believe MamaB simply thought she was preserving the Orion Cave Intel.

      • joe says:

        I’m not sure I fully understand this then, Lou. Although I realize there were mods. made to it, Stephen had a big hand in making the Intersect 2.0. It’s still his design. And whatever’s in the the laptop could have been put there late in the game, sometime in the year between Chuck’s uploading the 2.0 and Stephen’s death, right?

        I’m pretty sure Stephen’s tools correctly do what they’re intended to do, but my question is about MEBs intent. Why would she intentionally make Chuck defenceless and yet tell Sarah to protect him? I’m guessing she knew the effect was temporary or a side effect of something else the PSP did to Chuck, and then, per your spec, he shows Ellie what to do next to help Chuck.

        So the question in my mind is what else did the PSP do to him? Is that what Volkoff is after?

      • OldDarth says:

        Hi Joe.

        PapaB was not involved with Intersect 2.0. That is the crux of the issue.

        Remember at the end of S2 when he asked Bryce about the changes and he did not understand them?

        Now in the intervening time PapaB may have figured out the changes, but I am betting he did not or the PSP flash would not have messed Chuck up.

        Probably wrong but those are my thoughts.

        The other possibility could be that Chuck needs to reboot to incorporate the PSP flash and MamaB did not know about that.

        But I am probably wrong. Won’t be the first time.

      • JC says:

        Feel free to correct me OD

        Joe what I think OD is getting at is this. The suppression of the Intersect was a side effect of the PSP. We know Orion had no idea Chuck uploaded the 2.0 and its likely the PSP was created long before Chuck even got the original. Whatever the PSP does it wasn’t intended to work with the 2.0.

        Her protect him line could be simply knowing how dangerous Volkoff is and Chuck needing someone he can rely on.

      • OldDarth says:

        That’s it exactly JC. Wonderful encapsulation!


      • thinkling says:

        Love your spec OD. I really hope that’s the way Ellie and Devon get involved in the “family business.” That way they can still be the normal ones in the family, but still be part of the spy team. Perfect resolution to Ellie’s misgivings. And as you say, the benefits would be huge. I like it … a lot.

        Agree that Intersect maintenance is on the laptop, probably along with all the Intel from the basement and some other goodies. I still think the program on the laptop is supposed to act on the PSP programming in some way.

        The PSP is a mystery yet to be unraveled. We know that Stephen never wanted Chuck to be involved in spy stuff; so whatever it is, it’s a step deeper into Intersect power, not a retreat from it. I’ve been wondering lately if suppress is the right word. What if the PSP made the Intersect (not so much the Intel, but the programming, which could include some fighting skills) an indelible part of Chuck’s brain, maybe even moved it to a different area of his brain, where no one else can access or remove it. The laptop will complement the process by repopulating the database and implanting the access key to the permanent programming. My spec is when it’s all done, it will be permanent, more powerful, faster, and smoother.

        This makes it a higher stakes game, again. And Ellie has to decide to go forward with it, or it won’t happen.

      • thinkling says:

        One more thought. If the above spec is close to correct, the protect him line was not only a mother placing confidence in her son’s girlfriend/partner, but also the senior Bartowski spy recognizing Chuck’s need for an unusual and unusually remarkable spy-partner … and her recognition that that’s who Sarah is. The Bartowski team has passed the point of no return … or they are about to.

      • atcdave says:

        Okay, I get the gist of this now. The only thing I would add is that Orion was able to adapt the Governer to work with 2.0 pretty quickly; so he at least had some data on the 2.0 by the end of S3. Perhaps the PSP was made earlier and the laptop will have more current data, or at least current enough for Ellie to sort it out. I REALLY hope Ellie gets involved when all of this sorts out.

      • JC says:

        That makes sense Dave. During the chaos of 3.5 Orion probably never had a chance to alter the PSP or warn Mary of the complications. So once Volkoff got close to her children Mary iniated the PSP plan. Orion knew there was a chance of death going after the Ring. And with PSP plan still in play he left a fix with the most logical candiate, Ellie.

        The fatal flaw his children need to protect each other by keeping secrets.

        And Thinkling nice to see more people on Chuck getting certain skills permanently embeded on his brain speculation.

    • alladinsgenie4u says:

      @OD – like your speculations. Hope they come to fruition. My hope is that the Intersect is back to full functionality by the end of 4×10.

      As JC says and I agree with him that it would be really cool if there’s a message from Orion explaining to Ellie about the Bartowski family’s legacy and then point her towards the fix to the Intersect malfunction. And right when it seems like things are looking dire for Team B, Ellie steps up, fixes Chuck and the day is saved.

      “This will allow Ellie and Devon to be more involved in the spy world short of taking part in actual missions. They will become the team doctors.”

      Was reminded of Frea’s Fates when I read this.

      • atcdave says:

        I thought about that too! Frea’s just a step ahead.

      • Ofer says:

        I was thinking something similar, in that the laptop contains the Adventures of Agent Carmichael (like any good Dad I am sure Papa B knew, Mom did). Then Ellie can see everything good Team B did.

        With recent episodes, I was wondering if we would get to the point where Ellie is ok with Chuck being a spy, but Sarah isn’t.

      • kg says:

        Well I was thinking that they could expand the recent theme of the episodes, how Sarah’s feelings for Chuck are strong and pure with or without the intersect.

        Ellie was first introduced to Chuck’s activities during Subway and then she got a taste of his abilities in Costa Gravas. Now, with knowledge of the origin of his special abilities, Sarah hopefully can have the long overdue talk with Ellie. Sarah can confirm Ellie’s belief that Chuck is special with or without and that Sarah feels and believes the same.

      • jason says:

        I’m hoping chuck proposes to sarah while the intersect is disabled, it would be a nice touch that he felt he could ask without being the intersect. That would mean he would have to ask soon, as I’m guessing the intersect will be back in action shortly.

      • atcdave says:

        That’s a great point Jason, I hope you’re right.

      • jason says:

        spec’ing 4×10 is difficult, I’m going to try to extricate myself from further looking backwards for now, all ships sailing forward for me.

        I did a quick search for news/ spoilers / new clips, I see nothing, interesting?

        Does the ep end with team b in trouble, or with volkov gone, and peril avoided at least for the time being?

        If volkov is gone, does mary leave with volkov or stay in burbank?

        Do we find out if mary is a good guy or bad guy in this ep?

        Does ellie find out chuck is still a spy in this ep, does ellie know about chuck being the intersect? Does ellie know about the intersect at all? What is on the damned roark computer anyhow?

        Does chuck flash in 4×10?

        Is there any CS shipper stuff in the ep, or do they act as if 4×9 newver happened?

        Overall, the fans who love mythology and spy stuff, should really enjoy 4×10 – I am just stumped as to what is going to occur – that I would have to say is a GREAT thing, in lots of ways from my POV, far less chance of being disappointed since i have few expectations for this ep, although I do think it is going to be a good one.

      • thinkling says:

        All such great questions. I agree it’s hard to spec. Less than 10 hrs for answers, though.

        Hurray for that, Jason. S4 winds are behind us. Anchors Aweigh.

      • armySFC says:

        @ jason. i too joined the not able to speculate crew. but i do think he flashes and here is why. for the most part since the end of s3 when he forces a flash when its done he looks at sarah. she looks him and they begin the fight. in the one promo chuck is standing. he looks at sarah and nods, she looks back and nods. then it cuts away. could it be the same signal indicating he flashed and is ready to go?

      • jason says:

        army – that is so clever to pick up on – hope you are right

      • atcdave says:

        My only real spec is that we still won’t know Frost’s true story or allegiances at the end. Basing that solely of LH’s recent interview where she indicated she still didn’t know if she was a good guy or bad guy. Of course she could be snowing us, or the interview could be older than I thought it was…

      • herder says:

        I’ll agree with the continuing ambiguity regarding Mama B. What I’m wondering is if there are multiple meanings of leftovers; the meal itself, unfinished business. Chuck and Sarah could be Volkov’s leftovers, Chuck and Ellie could be Mama B’s, Volkov and Mama B might be Chuck’s or Orion’s ect.

        I’m still wondering about the phrase “Langston Graham’s wild card enforcer” why not “the CIA’s…”, could Graham have leftovers too?

  2. OldDarth says:

    As to Volkoff he definitely has a thing for MamaB. Looks like MamaB has run and Volkoff wants her back.

    And the PapaB laptop too.

  3. Gringo Chuck Fan says:

    Ok – I had a great speculation all figured out –
    but it looks like OD beat me to it…
    hmmm…. guess that only leaves us with a need to play count the kisses! 10 kisses in EP 4.10….
    Hopefully those don’t involve Jeff with Lester…

    • joe says:

      Over/under? Okay, I’m in! I’d say we see 6 lip-locks in this episode (and none between Lester and Jeff). 😉

      • alladinsgenie4u says:

        10 kisses? 6 to C/S, 2 to Ellie/Devon, And 2 motherly kisses from Mama B. It’s fun to speculate.

      • Faith says:

        Spec you say? Proposal in this epi. That’s right, I said it ;-). What could be more epic than the entire thanksgiving dinner (family), leftovers (action) and pie (proposal). Haha.

      • joe says:

        Maybe I’m just thinking wishtfully Jem, but I think so too!

        No plan involving sports cars, stallions, CIA involvement or a squadron of Casey’s military buddies. It’s spur of the moment, unexpected, heart pounding in intensity and more like a supernova than a choreographed dance.

        IOW, perfect.

      • thinkling says:

        Hey, you guys know you’re playing my song, right? An engagement would be great … and at this point the only way to surprise Sarah the super-spy. 🙂

      • atcdave says:

        I’d been trying not to get my hopes up on that front, but I agree it’s a good possibility. They’ve talked about grand plans, but I’d love to see Chuck just take Sarah by surprise with no fanfare.

        And as NinjaVanish so eloquently wrote (in “Chuck and Sarah vs Themselves”) Sarah’s reply, “Gimme!”

  4. First Timer says:

    I note the word “embiggen.” Joe, report to Principal Skinner immediately… 🙂

    Oh, by the way, this is the episode where Frost saves Castle as per the Frost Queen story in the first scene of the season.

  5. thinkling says:

    Joe, your right. The pics are much better embiggened. 😉

    Crazy day. I’ll spec later. Can’t wait for Leftovers.

    • atcdave says:

      Funny thing to say the day after t-day!

    • alladinsgenie4u says:

      The pics sure look great. AS for the C/S hug it kind of looks like the hug Sarah gave Chuck after clonking Plywood at the end of 3×19.Maybe a dangerous situation was thwarted yet again and that is a hug of relief. Or maybe that’s the way Yvonne hugs Levi – he is quite tall and she may find it a little difficult to put her arms around his neck.

      • thinkling says:

        Just had a thought on the hug. What could have happened to provoke such an emotional hug?

        What if Sarah shoots MEB? Not to kill but to protect, like she did her dad in DeLorean. Even better if Sarah and MEB have the same silent communication about it. It’s the only way to save the situation and protect MEB’s cover with Volkoff.

        Frost yells for Volkoff to run. Volkoff lives to return another day angrier than ever. Frost gets arrested.

      • alladinsgenie4u says:

        But if Sarah does shoot Mama B ( even to protect her), Chuck’s face wouldn’t be so calm. He would be freaking out. Although, I very much like your scenario of Mama B and Volkoff being separated for good in 4×10.

      • thinkling says:

        I think Chuck would understand exactly what went down. He would have seen the silent communication and know it was the only way. It just looks like an emotional hug to me, and at some point Sarah had a gun.

        I do spec this, though. I think LH was telling the truth about its being the best episode ever. Well, I don’t know what could top Phase 3, but it was one of a kind. 😉

      • thinkling says:

        @Alladins: Chuck’s freak-out face is more in the first picture, the one with the gun. What if Volkoff is using MEB as a shield to get away. Maybe by then Volkoff suspects MEB. We all know what that means … torture. So Sarah shoots her to save her.

        Anyway, after the shooting, Ellie takes care of MEB, and Chuck & Sarah take care of each other.

      • alladinsgenie4u says:


        We can always categorize Phase Three as an episode from Sarah’s POV (for the major part anyway. We will compare it’s greatness with the next Sarah centric episode that comes along. This way when 4×10 rolls through and blow us away with it’s awesomeness (hopefully), we will not feel the need to compare it with 4×09.

      • thinkling says:

        Phase 3 is unique … incomparable. I’m fine passing the awesomeness around. But Phase 3 will forever stand alone on multiple levels.

      • alladinsgenie4u says:

        @thinkling – From the promo, we know that Volkoff points a gun at Sarah and threatens Chuck that his loved ones will suffer. Although, I would love it if Mama B comes over to the good side ASAP and starts plotting Volkoff’s downfall with Team B, I have a feeling that her true intentions will only be revealed in 4×12 or 4×13. probably through some dramatic plot device/scene.

      • thinkling says:

        That’s just as likely. Either way is fine with me. I know we’re in for quite a ride.

      • herder says:

        I’m coming a bit late to this conversation but about the hug, I was thinking it looks like one of those situations where Chuck is putting himself at risk for others. Perhaps Volkov has said something like come with me and the others will be safe, Sarah doesn’t want him to put himself at risk but Chuck insists asking Sarah to watch over the others. The hug is the good bye.

  6. Paul says:

    Well, the second sneak peak hints that Volkoff thinks that Frost may have been taken into custody again.

    • alladinsgenie4u says:

      Or maybe Frost has come to Chuck with some mission like in 4×06 or saves C/S from death (Come with me if you want to live – from promo).Volkoff comes looking for her and wants to talk to her (she doesn’t look a captive in the sneak peek). I have a feeling that Mama B and Volkoff’s partnership will end in this episode.

      • JC says:

        Mary trying to save or warn C/S makes sense. Probably after the events of FOD and Phase Three Volkoff learned they survived so he has people hunting them.

        I would guess Volkoff knows that Chuck and Ellie are Mary’s children or he finds out in this episode.

      • alladinsgenie4u says:

        After reading this interview – http://bit.ly/dSdiDk – got to revise my guess about Mama B and Volkoff’s partnership coming to an end in 4×10

        An excerpt
        TV Guide Magazine: So the writers intend to string us along for a while?
        Hamilton: Apparently. [Laughs] And I’m getting ulcers over it! Mary is walking a very tight wire here, and nobody has told me where this is headed. It’s the first time I’ve ever played a character where I don’t know what’s really going on.

        So, a demarcation of Mama B’s true loyalties in 4×10 is now looking very bleak. Will she do the disappearing act again? Will she do something on the sly to save Ellie and Chuck from Volkoff?

        Come to think of it, nothing about this episode is crystal clear. The promo and sneak peek have not revealed much. I am anticipating big moments and I hope not to be disappointed.

      • atcdave says:

        That is intriguing Genie, thanks. Interesting too that Chuck is saying he doesn’t trust her in the second promo. I can see this getting strung out to 4.13 or even later; what a blast!

      • jason says:

        I think if dalton is willing, he will be in thru 4×24, the string things out fedak referred to may be the engagement too, but I honestly think will absolutely be frost / volkov is they are willing.

        Lets face it, from a dramatic acting, or a professional actor POV, dalton and hamilton are on the A list, and they really amp up the ability of each ep they are in to do drama, which sets up the comedy even better, and frees up CS to be funny & together – i.e. episode 4×7 as the classic example … I think 4×10 may even showcase dalton / hamilton vs levi / stahovski even better!!!

  7. Faith says:

    Here’s the promo breakdown From Sarge_87: http://bit.ly/fD4z7F

  8. herder says:

    I had started my spec with the question of why is Volkov in Burbank and more particularly why does he go to dinner with Ellie and Awesome. To my mind there are three possible reasons for him to be in Burbank, first he has heard that Carmicheal is alive and wants to finish the job, second that he has followed Mama B and finally he knows about the Orion computer and wants it.

    I don’t think that he has heard that Carmicheal is still alive as then there is no reason to go on to see Ellie and Awesome. If he wants to finish the job shoot Chuck, don’t mess about with sharks with lasers strapped to their heads. I think this is a less likely reason.

    He followed Mama B, this is what I think is the most likely, he follows her, finds Chuck, finds out about Ellie and wants to know more. Of course that leads to the question of why Mama B is in Burbank, maternal instincts or something else, some plan or plot of her own. I think this is the most likely solution.

    The Orion computer, that is the conspiracist’s favorite. When we first see Orion he is in Hong Kong, when we first hear of Volkov, Marko, Casey and Sarah are all in Hong Kong, coincidence, perhaps not. In Predator Fulcrum and the CIA were able to track the use of the Orion computer as it gave off some unusual signature, could Volkov have tracked the use of Orion’s computer by Ellie and now wants to check it out. Of course there is the question that if Volkov could track it why couldn’t the CIA. But it would explain why he invites himself to dinner at Ellie’s.

    In any event this is Volkov’s show, at least at first, and what he does is determined by why he has come to Burbank, is it for Chuck, Frost or Ellie. Less than 72 hours to find out.

    • thinkling says:

      Just spitballing b/c why they show up and what he knows seems like the big mystery.

      Maybe MEB convinces Volkoff that she’s on a mission (?) … or maybe it’s Volkoff’s mission to get rid of Carmichael once and for all, having found out he is alive via the Thailand grapevine. The latter would explain the heavy backup. Of course, since it’s MEB, on her part, there are 2 missions, one of which has to be to protect her family from the ever-escalating Volkoff threat, while maintaining her facade (if it is) of loyalty to Volkoff to protect her cover, all without getting arrested by the CIA. Quite a balancing act.

      From the phone call, it appears that Volkoff thinks Frost has been captured again. True or not, he has to believe it, or her cover is blown. Don’t know when this happens. That’s the problem. We have no idea about the sequence of events.

      I spec that at least Volkoff will disappear into the woodwork again. Frost may be caught, which heightens the danger to … everyone.

      Perhaps she is the one in prison in 4.12, and they have to get her out to save her from Volkoff, who by then will have figured out her loyalties.

      • patty says:

        The dude Chuck was outbid by in the auction was a Russian so my guess is that he reported that his mission to obtain the diamond/data chip was thwarted by some American named Carmichael.

      • thinkling says:

        I didn’t think of him Patty. Nice catch. I think there are a number of ways word could get back to Volkoff about Carmichael.

        Wonder if Frost heard about the Giant Blond She-Male 🙂 She couldn’t have found a better protector for her son.

      • thinkling says:

        The more I think about it, this is the setup

        1. Volkoff found out about Carmichael and is coming after him with his army, which appears to include the smart-bullets-naked-spy and Sarah’s ex from Thailand. Frost is on the mission with him (with a side mission of her own).
        2. Frost finds C/S and warns them come with me if you want to live. They go to Castle.
        3. Volkoff thinks Frost was captured, hence the angry phone call.
        4. TeamB goes up to the Buymore combat ready
        5. Chuck may be the one to out the family ties with his comment Is he your boyfriend. Is that why you left dad? Oops.
        6. Volkoff invites himself over for leftovers.

        After that I don’t know how it will unfold or when the laptop will come into play … or if the laptop stuff comes first.

        51 hrs. to go.

      • alladinsgenie4u says:

        @thinkling – My spec slightly varies. I am guessing that Mama B shows up first – maybe with some agenda of hers. Runs into C/S and events unfold. From the promos – it doesn’t look like she is a captive in Castle. Volkof then comes with his army to rescue Frost and then invites himself over for leftovers. Maybe he just wants to spend some quality time with (what he may consider in his twisted mind) his extended family (in lieu of his complicated relationship with Frost).

        Now where does the laptop come into play? That is the most important question.

      • thinkling says:

        Right Aladins, the laptop is the mystery of the week.

        And what a creepy thought. Volkoff considers the Bartowski’s his extended family. shudder.

    • atcdave says:

      Thinking Frost was captured may not be too far off either; Chuck seemed to be calling the shots about whether she talked on the phone or not. So she may be in custody of some sort.

      I like the idea of Volkoff tracking the Orion computer, it would explain a lot about why he’s back. It will be very interesting to see if he’s surprised by Chuck/Sarah’s survival.

  9. Rick Holy says:

    That “stunned” look on Chuck’s face is his coming to the realization that after Monday, there won’t be another CHUCK episode on until Jan. 17th!!


    I’m on board with those who’ve speculated that the “intersect block” is an unanticipated side-effect of the massive download of all of Orion’s info. that Mama B put into Chuck’s noggin with that hand-held device (PSP or whatever you call it).

    I also think Ellie (and Awesome) are going to be involved in some way with the recovery of the Intersect – obviously, with that computer in their possesion! – but something within me still thinks it’s going to be Sarah in danger of being killed that will ultimately trigger the “re-boot.”

    Here’s hoping that re-boot will take place on Monday night. Having to wait until Jan. 17th (or after) is going to suck.

  10. Tamara Burks says:

    If the Intersect block is an unexpected side effect than I would love for the to be a convo betwwen Mama B and Chuck where she asks him to flash or tells him to pretend to flash the way she did in Aisle of Terror and he responds with oh, you mean that thing I can’t do anymore because of you. If she tells him she didn’t know that would happen he tells her he doesn’t believe her.

  11. odysszeuss says:

    That’s not really a spec, but I “prefer” a Scenario in that the threat of Sarah’s life triggers the Intersect into working again. Anyhow it seems ridiculous for me seeing Elli or Davon repairing Chucks brain anyhow (with or without Orion’s Laptop).
    ..This Spec has it’s own history: Since the PSP device, there were no live threatening trigger moments for Chuck which involved his girl or his family in danger. As he said to the fat Ninja at the auction (Swiss): Nothing scares me probably any more…
    …Not sure if the whole scary thing is red Herring at all…
    …But the aspect of a mother lifting a car to save her child, is a power Chuck had from the beginning, when his girl or family is threatened, so I’m really friendly with the live/dead-Sarah-Trigger-Intersect-Spec…
    …kind of Chuck tries to save her, gets knocked out, reboots and saves the day more powerful then ever…
    …but what is with (Dave mentioned it) the intersect sounds when Elli started the Orion Laptop…
    …seems anyhow my Spec is wrong, but as I said above this is not Spec, it’s a I would prefer-Scenario 😉

    • odysszeuss says:

      Perhaps this Moment ???

      thx to Sarge_87 via Faith

      • odysszeuss says:

        or this one ??? http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee242/bowlfan69/41026.jpg
        thx to Sarge_87 via Faith

        …btw. Sarah is looking kind of girlish in this pic (and off topic,but) isn’t it the best thing at all, that TPTB explained with vs. Phase Three that Sarah is a kind of a Dr.JekyllsandMr.Hyde Charakter. I always had problems with Saray being or locking girlish. I never really bought the whole Sarah Superspy vs. girlish scenario TPTB presented. Now I’m comfortable and satisfied OK with it. We always suspected it and there were dozens of hints and some half hearted talk about it, but now we really have a back story for that: She really wants to be girlish, at least when her job allows it… 😉
        …And sorry, but that’s not nitpicking having an Issue with Sarah the Girl vs. Sarah the Superspy. The vs. Phase Three Episode was long overdue explaining her actions of the last three and a half Sesons…

  12. OldDarth says:

    I’m wondering if the hug from the promo is a goodbye hug? Could Volkoff take Sarah as a hostage as insurance against Chuck trying to thwart him?

    That would be quite the cliff hanger!

    • atcdave says:

      I sure hope not. I think fans (of TV in general) are far less enthused by cliffhangers than writers are trained to think we are. I actually don’t know a single casual viewer who likes the device.

      And I don’t think that’s the case here regardless. Chuck looks satisfied in the hug, not like he’s saying goodbye.

      • jason says:

        @dave – certainly sarah being kidnapped would give chuck cause to beg ellie to restore the intersect, morgan could even chime in about what sarah did in thailand, and how sarah needs chuck to be intersected right now.

        Since I am pretty sure 4×10 was shot b4 the 11 ep extension, the mission to rescue sarah would be one of the final missions ever on the show from that timeline’s POV (pre extension) – which may make sense?

        Only thing that does not seem to add up, sarah in the spoiled prison scene (which I think is 4×11???) appeared to be free – albeit alone, in a black wig, unless sarah has been working for volkov all along and is on her own mission in the prison – dun – dun – dun – da – ooooohhhhh – just kidding of course

      • atcdave says:

        I think the prison mission episode is 4.12. I just don’t see them separating Chuck and Sarah for the break, and the photo above sure doesn’t look like a painful goodbye to me.

        My spec several weeks ago was we would have one episode all season that ended in tough place for Chuck and Sarah and one more where they were separated professionally. By my count we’ve already had both with Aisle of Terror and Fear of Death. I know that proves nothing, but my bet is we won’t see another separation so soon. Any cliffie will be Volkoff/Frost related.

      • jason says:

        cliffhanger still on the table … water fountain …. sarah and chuck nearly get killed in the prior scene … chuck sitting alone …. sarah walks up to him, warm smiles, and asks what are you doing here all alone, come on inside …. chuck replies … sarah I have something important to …. and cut … 60 day break

        won’t happen, not even sure it is the right cliffhanger, but it sure would work for me

      • atcdave says:

        Actually I could see this episode ending with a fountain scene that is a proposal/engagement scene, no cliffhanger about it. That way, before they got the back order, it still would have let them end 4.13 with a epilogue/wedding scene without it seeming too rushed.

        Of course now I think the wedding will be pushed back to 4.24; and I wouldn’t bet any money (well maybe Costa Graven Pesos but nothing else) that the engagement WILL happen this week, but I do think it’s a possibility.

      • alladinsgenie4u says:

        @Dave – I am putting my Costa Gravan pesos on the engagement happening in 4×11.

      • atcdave says:

        Yeah Genie, 4.11 is my current bet too. But I’m not ruling anything else out.

      • armySFC says:

        @ jason I don’t think we can take to much from the picture of Sarah that was released, if it’s the one of her in black on the phone. It looks like a behind the scenes shot. In the back on the right you can see monitors and camera equipment. In the back left is a woman in casual jeans sitting on a trunk. the guy in the back middle has rolled up pants and sneakers. the equipment is on wheel. My guess is that Chuck is under cover in the jail as some kind if bad dude maybe a biker, Morgan and Casey are guards and Sarah is his biker babe. just a thought.

    • OldDarth says:

      I disagree with Dave. IMO casual viewers are most likely indifferent to cliffhangers.

      For myself I love them. In books and TV shows. It is an enticing hook into the show.

      What does surprise me is the number of fans that do not like them.

      Most fascinating.

      • timlay says:

        not so OD i am very much a casual viewer and really cliff hangers leave me cold. Also if you are a casual viewer it can leave you really at a loss as if you miss the next resolution and then come back to it you wonder why things have gone back to normal or chnaged or where has that character gone. The key word is casual meaning we take it or leave it watch the episode that sound interesting.

        also case in point see how the reaction from alot of fans was to the mask cliff hanger and then waiting around for it that was the start of the drop from 7 mil watching to 4-5 mill people watching.

        Personally I do not like cliff hangers in movies or books, i find it irrating and usually if they are going to do it wait for the next part to come out and then watch it as a single part. Which is why i have not bothered to go and see harry potter that and they have butchered the story and put things in that did not happen in the book.

      • JC says:

        It all depends on the cliff hanger. Was it intended to be one with such a long break? Lots of factors involved.

      • alladinsgenie4u says:

        @OD – I love cliffhangers too – I mean the ones that give you the chills of impending danger – not melodramatic ones though.

        If 4×10 does feature a cliffhanger I hope it is something related to Volkoff/Mama B.

      • atcdave says:

        It’s certainly a popular technique among story tellers themselves, and on occasion I’ve seen them used quite well. Most of what we’ve seen on Chuck I would characterize as more of a hook than a cliffhanger, that is a tie in to the next story arc that doesn’t leave major questions about character well being or major previous story elements in question. I like hooks just fine. But my feeling on major cliffhangers is much less enthusiastic. On most shows, I resent the implication I have nothing better to do with my time than remember all the various story details over an extended break. I’m actually pretty likely to drop most shows at that point; that is, a first season show that makes the presumption of thinking I’ll come back next season because I can’t resist some stupid cliffhanger is taking a large risk. Alias and Battlestar Galactica are two shows I can think of that made exactly that mistake; after a season ending roll of the eyes I deleted both from my DVR. Star Trek: TNG did exactly the opposite with their epic Borg cliffie (between S3 and S4 if memory serves), but then I was pretty well invested in the show by that point.
        I have spoken to many friends who feel the same way about this. I remember one buddy saying he hated May because it was the month when none of his favorite shows would finish a story. I know this is considered anecdotal, it only proves my friends have similar taste to me, but I do think professional writers over-estimate the appeal of cliffhangers. They assume everyone is hanging on their every detail. I just think it’s only the shows I’m most interested in where a cliffie achieves what the writers think it does. Obviously on Chuck I’m already hooked, so I’ll watch either way. I still prefer when stories have nice tidy ends (what can I say, I put things in neat tidy lines for a living and hate disorder), but I suppose a good cliffhanger would have the desired effect of keeping me talking and speculating all through a break.

      • Tamara Burks says:

        A lot of dislike for cliffhangers is in the timing of them. A cliffhanger at the beginning of a 7 week break would be bad, One before that break that ends with something truly horrible (see the break between Mask and fake name) and continues with something worse is much worse. Then there’s the season finale cliffhanger where you don’t know if there’s a rewal (but still have hope) . Probably the worst of all is the season ending cliffhanger where there is no renewal and no hope whatsoever.

        Good example of the last- A show called Matt Houston which ended with the main character on the run for a crime he didn’t committ- the reboot of the fugitive was pretty bad too.

      • thinkling says:

        My husband, who views all shows casually, HATES cliffhangers.

      • alladinsgenie4u says:

        @thinkling – has your husband watched Dexter? IMHO, it has some of the most awesome cliffhangers.

      • atcdave says:

        Good summation Tamara. I remember both of your very bad examples quite well!

        I guess I would say I lean towards never liking cliffies either. There have just been a few really good exceptions I can think of.

      • thinkling says:


        No he hasn’t, but neither have I. So, I should check it out, huh?

      • alladinsgenie4u says:

        @thinkling – It’s a great show. But word of caution, it’s dark,very dark.(from the premise to the stories – it’s heavy duty)

      • thinkling says:

        @Alladins: thanks for the heads up on Dexter.

      • armySFC says:

        @OD I personally hate cliff hangers. I want the show to be good enough to bring me back that way. I don’t need the cliff hanger to bring me back. With the show in a ratings decline for what ever reason, I don’t think a cliff hanger will work.

    • thinkling says:

      The Hug:

      Relief after something plays out
      A way for Sarah to pull Chuck’s gun (unlikely but kind of cool)
      Sarah communicating something to Chuck

      • timlay says:


        could not agree more atcdave

        There is a fair few series

        x files
        battle star galactica (god that was rubbish)
        SG1 (i got so fed up of that)

        in the end i just stopped watching i was not going to wait for the next season to find out what happened. I am as bart simpson says part of the MTV generation and have an attention span of a fish and want instant gratification. If i do not get it I will go find it somewhere else. So for me cliffhangers are like “huh .. what .. oh right ok so the only way i am going to find out what happened is by waiting six months nah not happening guys”.

        Lost had be turning off after the second season BSG was third season. I was so angry about the ending of the game alan wake i had spent hours playing that game for it to end on a cliff hanger .. it could be years before that gets resolved. Never played the game or any of the DLC after that not interested.

      • atcdave says:

        That’s funny timlay. I’d only disagree on SG-1. For whatever reason, they did it exactly right to me.

      • patty says:

        They are starting to do it in books too. The latest Harry Dresdan book, The latest Miles Vorkosigan book, Even a recent Mary Russel/Sherlock Holmes book. All ended in cliffhangers. I hate it in books, unless it is billed as a multibook arc to start with I do not want to spend a couple of years wondering what comes next! 😦

      • thinkling says:

        Agreed, Patty. I like to read series of books after they are out, if they cliffhang. Waitng a year for the next book of an author you like is bad enough, without it being a cliffhanger. (Plus I tend to forget too much.)

      • atcdave says:

        Yeah, I often won’t even start multi-part books until the whole series is out (I love Stephen Lawhead, i’ll wait until a trilogy is done then read the whole thing in three days!)

      • alladinsgenie4u says:

        @patty and thinklikg

        Agree on the cliffhangers in books being a huge turn off. Specially knowing that the next book usually doesn’t come out soon. Cliffhangers in books usually work chapter to chapter.

      • thinkling says:

        @Dave: I’ve read the Albion trilogy and really liked it. My son LOVES Lawhead. I gave him a nice tall stack of Lawhead books last Christmas and he was thrilled.

      • atcdave says:

        Why am I not surprised we find another common tie! I think his Arthur series is the best, but I’ve enjoyed everything he’s done.

      • thinkling says:

        I’ll have to start that series when we get back to our bookshelves.

      • timlay says:

        Hehe hay its really true i really do have a low attention span. LOL

        I really liked SG1 but the ori story was just really bad and they never really finished it I know they made a movie but i could not be bothered watching it.

      • atcdave says:

        You know the movie (Arc of Truth) did end that arc quite nicely. I think the thing about SG-1 was; it was a lot of fun, but it wasn’t emotionally engaging like Chuck. So I could laugh, have a great time, then forget about it for two months, then be ready to go when it came back.

        Most shows go one way or the other. They’re not that interesting, so I forget everything in the off season. Or like Chuck, I can’t put them out of my mind so the long break drives me nuts (yeah I know, short trip!).

      • timlay says:

        Yeah that was the name, well i am past that now. I do not care what happened to them.

        But what it did do was put me off watching any of the offshoot series from SG1 it does that twice bitten and all that I refused to watch caprica for the mess they made of BSG.

        Yes CHUCK has alot of heart not so much in season 3, it was very easy not to watch the show but seasons 1,2 and indeed 4 is back to old form. They are great characters mind you i used to really love firefly still watch that did not like how it ended the movie was awesome.

      • Paul says:

        My guess is the hug happens after Sarah points a gun at Volkoff. The context could be we scared him off for now, what a relief.

      • alladinsgenie4u says:

        Coming back to the hug. While looking at the pic in it’s embiggened state, for some reason I was reminded of peanut butter getting mixed up with chocolate. 😉 🙂

    • herder says:

      Funny OD, I had the same idea and just posted it above only it was Chuck going as the hostage and Sarah staying behind. Don’t see it as a cliff hanger, can’t see them posting a photo of the cliff hanger. I see it as being mid-episode and working out by the final scene.

      • First Timer says:

        You don’t do a cliffhanger on the LAST episode of your sweeps arc. You wrap up the arc you started at the beginning of the sweeps arc. So this episode wraps up the November sweeps arc, which is Chuck shorn of the Intersect.

        No cliffhanger. Isn’t done. Ever. That’s how television works.

      • alladinsgenie4u says:

        So does that mean the Intersect Malfunction story line is likely to be wrapped up in 4×10?

      • JC says:

        It either ends during 4.10 or the solution to the problem is found. Like last season with Orion promising to build the govenor in Living Dead but it not being resolved till Subway.

      • thinkling says:

        I could live with a mid-episode hostage situation, but I think it would be a colossal mistake coming off of Phase 3. We don’t need another rescue, and nothing could top last week. Plus, I think it would break the rhythm of the story. I expect everything to play out at Buymore and the courtyard/apt.

        I like First Timer’s prediction. Even without knowing how television works, I think it’s time to resolve the Intersect and put a bow on this mini arc.

        I wouldn’t mind a bow and a ring on it, but I think that’s probably 4.11. Looking back it seems like the engagement was a nested arc (couple arc) within the main one (spy arc). If everything was supposed to wrap by 13, then 4.11 would make sense to finally put a ring on the engagement arc. They can easily wrap part of the main arc (MEB’s loyalties) and extend Volkoff as a villain.

        The MamaB/Volkoff story will be the one left hanging in some way, probably with the stakes ratcheted up a little more. And that’s great … more LH and TD coming our way.

      • atcdave says:

        I think Thinkling’s take on it is likely correct. There are occasional cliffhangers in this situation, but I think its unlikely to be anything other than Frost/Volkoff escaping, possibly after some shocking reveal. But I think our central characters will all end in a good place. I too hope for an engagement, but don’t expect it until 4.11.

      • herder says:

        Dave, hate to disagree with you but as 3.13, the most likely proposal episode (in my opinion) is scheduled for January 31 and now that we have a back eleven, 3.15 is February 14, I think plans have been changed. I don’t think that TPTB can resist the date, I think we get a Valentines proposal in the middle of February sweeps. Truth be told a two episode delay doesn’t bother me, an eleven episode delay would.

      • jason says:

        herder – I would love a valentines day engagement ep – one more step toward re-establishing trust with the more verbose & slow to forgive portion of the fan base on these blogs (i.e. me).

        I also love your 3×13 or 3×15 reference – you not only are forgetting about season 3, you put your words into action – you simply decided to number season 4 eps as 3 – nice!

      • atcdave says:

        I think the back order came late enough if the engagement was already planned for 10 or 11 it will have to stay there. If it was planned for 12 or 13 they might be able to push into the back episodes. But I still think 4.11 is the most likely.

      • herder says:

        Jason, maybe a freudian slip but a slip none the less. I meant 4.13 and 4.15

  13. jason says:

    I find this am’s postings really fun to read.

    I am enjoying the ‘spy’ and mythology enthusiam displayed on the board this am for 4×10 – helps me understand a segment of the fan base that I haven’t in the past had much sympathy for.

    I think the end of 4×10 and the holiday promotion plan will dictate renewal or not – I sure hope TPTB get it right, whatever ‘right’ may mean?

    • jason says:

      I explained that poorly, by dictate renewal, I mean, the break will be the last chance to lure in another .5M ‘soft’ fans, who have watched before, and bump the viewership back into the safe 2.2 to 2.5M range.

      I think that can only be done with momentum from 4×10 and a great offseason promo plan.

    • atcdave says:

      I think you’re right about that Jason. Hopefully we’ll see some good promotion for the January shows (like during football playoffs) and see those come back up where they ought to be!

  14. Amrit says:

    I think whatever happens in 4.10-413 maybe difficult to maintain in the momentum stakes. I mean last year 3.11 to 3.13 was supposed to be a lot more payoff and epic then it turned out to be because of the extra episode orders, now with chuck not only getting an extra 11 episodes plus possibly (I am praying and hoping and praying) a season 5 with 22 episode order to get to 100, they may have to do some major scaling back in story telling. I think episode 10 would have definately led to a proposal and episode 13 marriage but not they will concentrate on spy stories for a time and just keep going that way, I am looking forward to it anyway. But I am braced for a slow down in epicness for a while and we may get a few more role model/suitcase episodes that are seperate from the spy show and romance but move the story along, so any chance to see the big 4 doing missions together I am cool with.

    • joe says:

      I wouldn’t worry too much, Amrit. It’s just as likely that TPTB have decided to put things that they thought would happen in S5 into the last 11. They’ve got time to worry about S5, and really, they’re probably more worried that this could be the last season anyway. “It’s time to pull out all the stops”, as they say.

  15. timlay says:

    Hi everyone

    hope you all had a great thanks giving

    well back after giving the series a break – glad i did I did not bother watching first fight or fear of death (god fear of death was rubbish) – saw them later

    I thought first fight was ok I have to say I am enjoying the season way more than i was season 3 and they have restored some of my faith in TPTB

    I thought Phase 3 was very good – very good and think they did a good job with that its a shame that fear of death was so poor a set up.

    you know i was thinking along the same lines as OD (never thought I would ever say that). We know volkov forced mamm B to join him what if to deal with chuck he forces sarah to go with him to control chuck. It could be chuck its unlikely that would happen as chuck has already been taken away. Its possible this could be chucks way of showing he can be a spy without her. The picture of her in a prison could be sarah in dark side mode as she has to work for volkov. This refelcts his parents and gives chuck the chance to be the hero IT COULD BE A COOL STORY !!

    However I agree with others that could be a bad for the show we are slowly losing viewers .. i think the core is more to the 4.0 to 4.5 I think if we look at the last season the worst of the season was when chuck and sarah and team bartowski was not together. People just find it dull I know i do .. which is one reason i have not bothered watching the last 3 episodes .. first fight they were seperated… fear of death they were apart and then phase 3 thats alot of episodes for the core characters to be apart.

    Its not what I want to see in the show me i like the show best when team bartowski is together and chuck and sarah are together. There been 3 episodes in a row where the team and chuck and sarah have been seperate i clock about 15 minutes they have been together in the last 3 episodes. Sorry i am just not interested in the buy more or the awesomes if i am watching online or on my itunes i fast forward through those sections.

    I know alot of people have said the DWTS is the reason for the drop in viewers and no doudt that has something to say with it but I am really losing interest in the season with over 3 episodes the team and chuck and sarah being apart Not sure if i will bother watching leftovers.

    I suspect they will have sarah having to go off its likely the begining of sarah and mama B working together I can see that and chuck proving himself to save and get sarah back.

    Though really if they keep them apart for too long i and i suspect alot of viewers will have long gone to see the resolution. If there is a cliff hanger that takes 7 weeks to start to resolve then i doudt i will bother to wait around not worth the effort. Do not get me wrong it could be a cool story but really we saw the whole of season 3 the team out and sarah and chuck apart write another story please. We will see i guess.

    • armySFC says:

      @ timlay I don’t know if it would be a good move or not to have Sarah go off with MEB or not. We’ll have to see on that one. I do agree on the part about the episode needing to be good going into a lay off. I’m a casual fan like you. I bailed on season 3 for most of it. If they end 4.10 on what I consider a down note I will bail again. This time a won’t return. The show works better for me when they work as a team. If they send Sarah off on her own to again protect Chuck I’m gone. If I wanted to watch a show about a bad ass female agent I’d watch Covert Affairs or Nakita.

      • timlay says:

        Exactly which i suspect is why the numbers declined in phase 3 the team has been out for 3 episodes that drags the enjoyment of the show down. Even if it did end on a good note you cannot have your 3 (4 including morgan love morgan i want a friend like him) not working with one another for too long it ruins the shows feel. We will see i am expecting the worst i have to say i really can see it happening. I like you will bail on the show if i am not enjoying it, i did last year. Right now they have split the team up for 3 episodes time for the team to get back together.

    • atcdave says:

      While I don’t agree in this specific case (I think the current ratings problems have more to do with competition than with the show itself); I do agree as a general rule, it is foolish to split up key cast members for an extended period of time. That is the crux of what went wrong with S3. That is also why I don’t see it happening here. I predict Chuck and Sarah will be together and happy about it at the end of 4.10.

      • timlay says:

        atcdave its only a guess and some anecodatal evdidence speaking to a few friends. They loved phase 3 but hated that they have “split” the team up again. I guess we will see if it is DWTS (god how anyone can watch that really seriously i would rather chew my arm off). We will see it could be a cool story for chuck to have to rescue her, and them working a plot against volkov to get him.

      • thinkling says:

        Dave, you’re on a roll. I hope it continues. You’re due.

        Tim, agreed on DWTS. And the plot for him to rescue her would be good, but now is not the time. Make it later in the back 11. They’ve just spent too much time, not really apart, but fighting for each other rather as a team against a common sit or enemy.

      • armySFC says:

        @ atcdave I think there are several reasons for the ratings drop. competition, team being broken up, and intersect broken plot line. but this week should give us an indication of things to come. DWTS is done. if rating go up we can guess it was the competition, if they drop its trouble. i hope they go up after last week.

      • timlay says:

        Hi thinkling

        you know in all the chuck sites you are all AWESOME here really friendly and willing to allow free discussion and even disagreements thats why i post here THANKS.

        I do really hope it is just DWTS I do not want to see the show fail on such a good season – so far. I agree though it is not the time to further keep them apart or seperated. What I want to see is the team working togeather. I completely agree with you on that but i just have a nagging feeling it could happen. IT could be awesome but we will see. I think you are right it may not play well with the fan base so near to the last 3 episodes where they have been effectively seperated.

      • atcdave says:

        I think January will be more indicative if the show can survive another season or not. But certainly a ratings uptick this Monday would be wonderful news.
        I question the “break-up” of the team as a cause mainly because I never felt there was a break-up, certainly nothing that registered as serious on an emotional level like last season. Now I will grant you simply separating the leads is risky because it damages the main cast chemistry. I think Burn Notice has suffered for introducing a new character this season, it diminishes the relationships that already work. I accept I’m not remotely a casual viewer. Perhaps many casual viewers are even less forgiving of S3 than I was, but I really feel like the show has never been better than what it is now.

      • thinkling says:

        Thank you, Tim. And you’re welcome. I’m really glad you feel that way. I’m a relative new comer to Chuck (April 2010) and this site (August). I was drawn in by the same qualities. So post early and post often.

        Here’s hoping your nagging feeling is indigestion and not prophecy. Sarah kidnapped by Volkoff for 7 weeks … talk about chewing my arm off 😉

      • armySFC says:

        for some reason this thought just popped in my head. while i do think DWTS has had some impact as well as the other things i mentioned i think the show may have hurt itself. we know how the first 12 episodes of season 3 went. many fans are gun shy when it comes to the angst we suffered through last year. two things come to mind. the first was when sarah arrested his mom. it raised all kinds of angst speculation. two, you’re not a spy. again it raised angst questions. maybe some casual and not so casual fans figured more angst was to come and decided to tune out. it never did but they could have been used to set the stage for more. again just a thought.

      • atcdave says:

        Yeah army, those are certainly the two biggest moments if someone was going to be scared off. Maybe that’s exactly it. When TPTB said Chuck and Sarah were together season I took them at their word and was able to sit back and enjoy the show. But casual viewers likely haven’t seen all those interviews, and may have just thought “oh brother, here we go again.”

      • timlay says:

        Well like i said the ONLY reason i came back is cause i heard what TPTB said at the start of the season. But what i read about the last 3 episodes was enough for me to stop watching the show for a while. Like I said previously i would.

      • armySFC says:

        @ atcdave i also listened to the interviews. here’s the thing. they said they will be together at the end. they never said they would not be apart during it. that was telling. also remember the speculation early in the season when it got leaked that they would break up around this time frame. granted we know now that it was because chuck was captured. but you could see early in the year many fans would not like that idea. i think they finally got the message.

  16. Faith says:

    This is from the TV Guide article that Alladins linked up there.

    I’m bringing it up because I loves it…

    “On the set they have to keep reminding me not to put too much warmth, too much mom stuff, into the role. There’s a reason she’s called Agent Frost. But a mom could be a villain and still care about her kids. It’s not a black and white world, especially on Chuck.”

    Chuck is so awesome because nothing is ever black and white and I love that!

    • Faith says:

      And this: “maybe in another four or five years I’ll get my way. I will completely wear them down!”

      Speaking my language! 4-5 years!

      • atcdave says:

        Faith, I thought you were in the “end it next year” camp. I get to look forward to 4 – 5 years from now, you don’t!

      • joe says:

        I can see it now. Dave points to the TV and says “Awww look! Baby Awesome’s first flash! How cute is that?!” 😉

      • atcdave says:

        Kids are funny. I don’t really ever want the show to be about kids, but I’d be perfectly happy to have them be a part of story. If the show goes another 4 or 5 years they’ll have to do something about it. The way Sarah’s going, she may get baby fever by the end of this season! (I hope not, I’d rather they went a few seasons just as a happy twosome)

      • thinkling says:

        Twosome for a while so they can keep spying. We can watch Chuck & Sarah with their niece(s) and nephew(?). That way we get the best of both worlds.

      • alladinsgenie4u says:

        @thinkling – As for me, I want to see Sarah bond with Baby Awesomette all the while with Casey getting in some good natured verbal quips.

      • atcdave says:

        Sarah discovering she loves kids would be a lot of fun.

      • thinkling says:

        Dave and Alladins, oh yeah. It will be really fun to see Sarah warm up to ‘the’ baby and then sort of start thinking of babies with Chuck. And obviously it will be a real kick for little Awesome to take to Sarah more than anyone else, which at first will be all awkwardness for Sarah. But then all that will change.

        And yes, Casey comments will be most welcome.

      • atcdave says:

        That might be awkward for Ellie too! She won’t want her baby taking after Aunt Sarah.

      • thinkling says:

        Yeah, Dave, that could be played for laughs, even between Sarah and Ellie.

      • Faith says:

        Haha. Let’s just say that if someone gave me a million dollars, I wouldn’t turn it down. 4-5 years more of Chuck is like winning a million dollars! 😉

      • Joseph (can't be Joe) says:

        I really hope that Sarah will “bond” in someway with baby Awesome.

        But it would be really cool to see Casey turn into a pile of goo around the baby girl, since he never had a chance to experience this for himself.

      • thinkling says:

        That would be cool Joseph. But it would have to be clandestine. Casey would only turn to goo when nobody was looking. This would include soft, wistful looks at the baby, looks that would disappear quickly when someone looked his way. So, who would notice and call him on it?

        I think a baby can bring us lots of heart warming and a ton of laughs. Can’t wait.

    • joe says:

      Heh! She got it just right, didn’t she? I just love the scene in Aisle where Frost “kidnaps” Chuck at gunpoint. If you recall, she takes him (at 100 mph!) to where she’s stashed Wheelright when they notice Sarah & Co. are coming to rescue Chuck. “I know. You used your signal watch.” she says. “Good boy!”

      It’s the motherly smile that makes that scene!

      • thinkling says:

        I think she’s doing a really great job as Chuck’s mother, actually. It’s not easy being the ‘mother’ of a man, especially with the spy relationship being as important as it is. So, her momentary lapses into mother-mode are perfect … and telling, if you ask me.

        Kudos to LH.

      • alladinsgenie4u says:

        Cant wait to see how Mama B’s scenes with Ellie in 4×10 play out. She is likely to be more emotional around Ellie. Which leads me to think – how will she react if/when Volkoff threatens Ellie?

      • thinkling says:

        I’m sure on the surface, all will be warmth and roses. But there are definite thorns in Chuck & Sarah’s sides.

        Then, at some point, it may turn cold and ugly, like the basement.

      • Tamara Burks says:

        Actually he used his phone. The watch is now exclusively a governer watch . There wouldn’t be room to cram in a signal system as well- it’s probably a miracle it functions as a watch as well as the Governer.

        He set off the distress signal with his phone after she pointed the gun at him and before he got into the car .

  17. Amrit says:

    I do not know how this episode came about, was it that this was the last episode in the story until they found out about the back 11 or possible season 5? I do not know, but what I do know is that this was breathtaking storytelling, this episode to me is what the constant was to lost. It is the signature episode of love and I cannot praise yvonne enough for her performance. It is one thing to know that your series is coming to the end and know that you have to put in a performace that fits the end and actually pulling it off and doing it. These actors are phenomiminal and are doing their best work, watching this episode I found myself trying to put into words the indescribable feeling of joy that I was experiencing and just could not do that! one day I would love to know what they planned to do if the next 4 episodes were to be the end, I would also love to see an interview from yvonne on what it was like as an actress to deliver this type of performance. The one thing that has stunned me since 3.13 is how much sarah has let herself fall head over heels in love with chuck, you get subtle hints in break up that chuck maybe her first home and first love, but you never know at that point, in my mind there is no doubt that chuck is the love of her life and that has made this season all the more epic and enjoyable. People say that chuck does not know how to do seasons that are long and more then 13 episodes, I do not buy that and rubbish the notion, they are hitting their creative peak and I look forward to seeing where we go next, there is so much story to tell.

    • atcdave says:

      Yeah there’s no doubt Sarah is all in. It’s really been wonderful to watch develop.

    • armySFC says:

      @ armit i agree about the writers. i feel the next ones can be even better because now the new writers have the experience of writing for chuck. as for what they would have done if these were the last four? its hard to say. i’m guessing probably not a lot. most of these would have been filmed before the notice they got canceled came out. just like many shows that got canceled before them they would just end it with like they planned from the beginning. only one show i can think of cleared up all the loose ends when they got canceled. october road brought back the cast and redid the last fifteen minutes of the last episode and set it in the future showing how everything ended. if chuck does not get re-upped it would be nice to an episode that clears up their future.

    • kg says:

      I’ve been giving the Chuck/Sarah dynamic even more thought than usual since Phase Three.

      For Chuck, it’s pretty simple. “There’s one thing you should know about me Shaw,” he said in Operation Awesome. “There’s nothing more important to me than my friends and family.” Every decision he makes, every action he takes seems to support this contention.

      Why Sarah? Why does Sarah love Chuck as strongly as she does? Why did she do all she did in Phase Three?

      It hit me, oddly enough, lying in bed a few days ago. Simply put, CHUCK TOUCHED SARAH WITHOUT TOUCHING HER. No other man has been able to accomplish this feat. Not Bryce, not Cole and certainly not Shaw.

      Chuck overwhelmed her without his lips, hands and sexual organs. He touched her without touching her.

      It started with a little balerina without a recital tape. There were other subtle things he did or said throughout seasons one and two. It escalated in Hard Salami when he refused to abandon her facing imminent death.

      In Seduction, he jumped off a roof of a building to save her. He heartwarmed her in Santa Claus and gave her the charm bracelet she said should be reserved for a “real” girlfriend. She exposed herself openly in Best Friend, and admitted she didn’t have anyone in her life that cared enough about her. Unaware and unassuming he rocked her world with for him was the simple truth. “Yeah ya do.” He touched her without touching her.

      It took longer than most relationships to settle in, and the same for the physical experience, but I think it will last. Forever. Sarah hasn’t forgotten how Chuck touched her without touching her. She’s certainly aware of what they’ve had to endure to get to the point they’re at now. Their bond is unbreakable. She wasn’t going to stop until she found and saved Chuck. And as Casey pointed out, Morgan throwing “gas on the fire,” exasperated an already desperate, dangerous woman.

      His trusting and forgiving nature is also a big portion of the concept. This is why she’s all in. This is why she’ll love him forever. That’s how and why the super nerd landed the superspy, bad-ass, hot blond.

      Now conversely, Ellie and Awesome were physical with each other from day one. Just the opposite. But just as effective. Like Chuck and Sarah, they are a great team. Everything for them fell into place after succumbing quickly to their mutual physical attraction. Unlike Chuck and Sarah, they don’t seem to suffer from poor commincation skills.

      Personally, I’d love to see Ellie and Sarah talk more frequently and work together in future shows.

      • atcdave says:

        Great observation KG, touching without touching seems right on the money.

        And ditto on the Ellie/Sarah talks. I think we can still count them on one hand, we need to hear what happens when Chuck’s two main gals are talking.

      • thinkling says:

        I really love that KG. He touched her without touching her.

        He also loved her without touching her. Other men had touched her without loving her, but Chuck was the first to love her so thoroughly without ever touching her. Even more, he made a point of not touching her, unless it could be real. Not what an average guy would do, if he found himself in Chuck’s lucky shoes.

        Yes. More Sarah/Ellie talks, please. 🙂

      • odysszeuss says:

        Why Sarah? Why does Sarah love Chuck as strongly as she does? Why did she do all she did in Phase Three?

        GOOD POINT KG!!!

      • joe says:

        I agree, Ken. That was a wonderful way to put it.

        In classic myth, Pygmalion was a sculptor who fell in love with the statue he created. In my mind I see him fashioning a woman out of cold marble and as he watches, she comes to life by the power of his love.

        That’s something like what I see going on in this corner of the story.

      • kg says:

        Thanks folks

        Yes Thinkling I agree. Beautifully said. I think I was thinking the same thing, encompassing the love as well, but didn’t articulate it that well. Ahhh, looks like I got a little too focused on the touching without touching. Ya think?

        And, a nice reference to Ring after the sprinklers exploded.

      • thinkling says:

        Gender derivations of the same idea 🙂

        It is a beautiful aspect of their relationship development.

      • JC says:


        While the story of Pygmalion is a wonderful myth, in relation to Chuck don’t you think it hurts Sarah’s character.

        The idea that she’s nothing without Chuck bothers me. I’d like to see her realize her own self worth on her own or at least have Chuck point out that the qualities were always there.

        While there’s no doubt they’re better together at least S3 showed Chuck his own worth as a person, although he has regressed somewhat. I’d like to see that kind of self realization with Sarah.

      • Anon says:

        Hopeless romantics 🙂

        “While there’s no doubt they’re better together at least S3 showed Chuck his own worth as a person, although he has regressed somewhat. I’d like to see that kind of self realization with Sarah.”

        S3 was able to give this message: Chuck decided what he wanted to be because of Sarah.

        In phase three,the buy more scene with tvs just before complete shutdown in Chuck’s mind, built on that.

        Chuck,in his own eyes,is nothing special without the intersect.Because the intersect gives him the opportunity to hang onto Sarah. Morgan gave us that insight.That’s why the proposal got on hold;Chuck wanted to be someone who deserved Sarah.

        Chuck and Sarah are who they are because of each other.

        Like Faith had pointed out talking about fear of death.

      • atcdave says:

        JC, I agree pre-Chuck Sarah was still a strong and appealing character based on the few S1 insights we got. It would be nice if Sarah was at peace with that. I would say, Chuck was able to help Sarah’s growth (or “save her”) because of the ways she was special to begin with.

      • JC says:

        Just Sarah brought out the best in Chuck, he did the same for her. But sometimes the way they write her is like those qualities didn’t exist at all beforehand. I’d love Chuck to point out that they were always there or for Sarah to realize it on her own.

  18. JC says:

    My old spec right after FOD seems like I jumped the gun by a week on when these things would happen.

    Does Ellie know that Chuck rejoined the CIA? At this point I’m leaning towards no.

    If Ellie doesn’t know, how does she find out? I’m thinking they’ll be information on the Orion Computer.

    Were Orion and Frost in contact the whole time? The evidence seems to lean towards they were. Mary knew exactly where the PSP was and she subtlety pushed Ellie towards the Mustang. Then you had Orion’s statement in the finale last season. He said he did it all for her not that he was looking for her. We also know from Orion that he did missions the government was unable or unwilling to do. Was Frost part of this too? Was her mission one of those things.

    Why can’t Chuck flash? Sarah and his emotions seem like a total misdirect to me. It seems like a technical or software issue that’s the cause of the problem.

    So what did the PSP do? Mary told Chuck his father didn’t want him to see this and he was wrong. So the idea that it suppresses the Intersect doesn’t make sense. The obvious explanation is that it uploaded all of Orion’s files from his base. That the PSP was an emergency plan created in case Volkoff got too close to Chuck and Ellie.

    Then you have the idea that the PSP is the Intersect version 3.0. At the time Orion and Frost didn’t know that Chuck uploaded the 2.0 so it’s clashing with it. But once Orion found out that Chuck uploaded the 2.0 he left a fix with the most logical candidate, Ellie. So what does the 3.0 do? If we go back to the finale again Orion said that with him gone the people he was protecting Chuck and Ellie from would come after them. I’m thinking it’s an upgraded version of the 2.0, that certain skills like Kung Fu and basic spy craft will be permanently imprinted on Chuck’s brain. At the point of its creation Orion wouldn’t have known Chuck would have a way to physically defend himself and Ellie from the dangers of Volkoff. Most likely it also has the intel from the Orion Cave too.

    • alladinsgenie4u says:


      It would be really cool if the PSP does indeed turn out to be the back up of all the intel in Orion’s Cave. It would be a shame if info on bad people like Hydra,Corvus et al just disappears in a blaze. Season 5 could very well deal with the ruthless enemies that Orion was talking about.

      As for Intersect 3.0 – what kind of new cool feature can they come up with? Intersect 2.0 covers almost all bases – intel+action. Which bring me back to your spec about the abilities being permanently embedded in Chuck’s brain. This is a more cool idea. Hope, this is what come to fruition.

      As for what is on Orion’s laptop – maybe there’s a file that can be opened by Chuck – similar to how he opened Bryce’s email in the Pilot.

      • JC says:

        Having skills permanently embedded seems like the most logical step. And it would reinforce the idea of Chuck being special.

        I admit though a lot of my speculation comes from lines that seem important in my head but could just be throwaway.

        If Orion thought the people that would come after Chuck and Ellie were that dangerous I can’t see him leaving Chuck physically defenseless. So for me it sense he would give Chuck the ability to defend both him and Ellie.

        The spec works better if the PSP was created or altered after the S2 finale. Orion got the idea for physical skills from the modifications he made to the 2.0. He wouldn’t have knowledge that Chuck uploaded it and since he removed the 1.0 he would assume Sarah and Casey would be gone. No handlers, no protection.

        Most likely I’m over thinking it.

  19. Robert H says:

    It would be very nice to see a Season 5 but the ratings may not permit it. There are a lot of things up in the air right now and we don’t know
    where they are going to land. It’s still too early
    to tell.

    I agree with those who say the show will need to average between a 2.0-2.5 range to have a chance at renewal. I also think sadly that many who stopped
    watching the show last year haven’t come back or
    really given the show another chance which is a shame. It is so much better than last year.

    What will happen? Who knows? Hope there is an uptick
    with Episode 10 before the hiatus. A lot will depend
    on where Chuck is relative to other NBC shows. Some
    are also going into hiatus. Other new shows will be
    introduced in January. Football season will be over,
    DWTS is gone. Maybe that will help as has been mentioned above. Will NBC aggessively promote the
    show or ignore it again like they did in the fall?
    Will they just put their promo dollars into the midseason replacements or put some of that money into Chuck? You would think they would after ordering the back 11 but NBC being NBC you just never know. Will the Comcast people have any say
    about it ? I have have read that Zachary Levi appears on a lot of their shows and they like him.
    Will that make a difference? Is NBC still making a
    profit on the show vs costs? Are the sponsors happy
    or at least satisfied? I see Subway products have been worked into a lot of the episodes so far. Will
    that make a difference? What is the average post
    episode viewing within 1 week of airtime so far
    this year? Last year, despite all of the problems with Season 3 there was a 22% increase. What impact
    will that have? Is it still possible to mobilize what is left of the original fan base to wage some sort of a campaign to save the show depending on
    what happens with the 14 episodes yet to be shown after Jan 17th? Will a good 5th season pitch by WB
    with syndication as a lure since the show will
    be close to that level plus an offer of lower costs
    make any difference in renewal chances? It appears
    that the show is going to stay in that impossible
    Monday time slot. Would moving it into a decent time
    slot help or just make things worse? Again hard to say.

    No doubt a lot of unanswered questions here and we’ll just have to wait for the answers which no doubt will be frustating.

    Anybody hear what happened with that TV Guide vote
    for the cover in one of their Decmber issues? Just
    curious, thanks.

  20. Tamara Burks says:

    I think when they have the first eps written and then they get an extension they shouldn’t mess with the storyline, they should just begin a new arc. They didn’t just start a new arc in season 3 and ended up with some serious lasting damage and that’s after saying it was gonna be a mini season in the back episodes.

    They could still have done the whole Shaw coming back arc without adding in more Sham in the first 13. Adding that in and having it where Sarah never actually breaks up with Shaw and then jumps to Chuck was just seedy.They should at least had her say something to Shaw about how she made a mistake.

    The end of Beard might have been a good chance for her to break up with him. Tell him she couldn’t be with someone who so casually ordered the death of someone who had been such a great asset to this country over some discs that had thus far done nothing but gather dust and were unlikely to have much current information on them since there were collected by his wife before her death years ago.

    I’d love to see what they orginally had planned for that before they altered it.

    The season 4 original arc could end with Volkov seemingly being taken care of of and then continue with him escaping or Mama B’s past coming back to haunt her especially any enemies she made that were good guys and want her prosecuted or dead. It could deal with her trying to fit back into her children’s lives while they don’t trust her. Have her turn interfering mother in regards to Chuck’s love life because she sees Sarah as being a younger version of herself and then trying to fix him up with women (not really PLI’s because Chuck wouldn’t want to meet them and he would just tell Sarah that his mother keeps shoving these women (probably analysts from the CIA so they’d be able to be let in on the secret nature of Chuck’s work) in his face and have a serious Mother-Girlfriend confrontation between them about her trying to break them up.Chuck would also tell his mother that it was a little late for her to be weighing in on his love life.

    • thinkling says:

      I like most of this s4 projection … doing a wrap that unravels with Volkoff’s escape. And it would be great to bring back another Frost/Orion enemy.

      I don’t personally care for any extended MEB/Sarah tension, especially after the protect him line. There could be one episode of tension, but after MEB consulted with Ellie and Morgan, she would be convinced. Maybe even have a Sarah/MEB talk that puts Mary’s mind at ease.* Having said that, I really think MEB has already weighed Sarah and given Sarah her blessing.

      I’d much rather see a tentative bonding between the two, with a bump here and there, b/c I think they could be good for each other.

      *I can’t help thinking that if Frost and Volkoff know anything of Carmichael’s capture by De Smet, they may know something about the Giant Blond She-Male. After that I don’t think anyone would question Sarah.

    • thinkling says:

      Perhaps her fist to his face in Subway serves as affirmation of the break-up. But then when he tried to kill her, that put a serious damper on an already dead, or rather never alive, relationship.

      Or you could take it to mean that they were never really together in a couple sense … no commitment to each other as a couple. Or that she just didn’t have an opportunity the way things played out.

    • timlay says:

      Hi Tamara Burks

      I agree the fact she never broke up with shaw and we find out she was really serious to the point of her moving in with him in DC. Has really still damaged her character and i think your right the show. She was more serious about shaw the spy than she ever was with chuck when she made it clear at the start of season 3 she could not be with chuck because he wanted to be a spy so she could be with shaw the spy but not chuck the spy. Sorry that does not make any sense the fact they kept that going through from 3.8 to 3.19 put me off and ruined the so called pay off in 3.13 and honeymooners thats why i said a while ago that was not an epic get together. Personally after 3.11 I wanted sarah killed off i had enough of her. They seem to be trying to fix the damage to the characters in season 4 but i still have issues with certain characters especially sarah.

      Phase 3 and season 4 has fixed alot of the damage but I really wanted the first fight to deal with the outstanding inconsistances in sarahs behaviour it has failed to do that .. i wanted to see chuck actually call her out on that why she could go with shaw the spy and not chuck the spy. I thought thats what we would get.

      Also your right why did we not see sham break up it seemed that she was with chuck while she was with shaw that makes her look really bad and seriously lacking in decent morals.

      For me its a deal breaker going forward. Its one of the reasons i am not a hard core fan any more and why i am less invested in the relationship of chuck and sarah and thus the show.

      Do not get me wrong season 4 is alot better and back to the old days season 1 and 2 seems the writing is better this year thank god they got rid of some of the dead wood from season 3 writing.

      • odysszeuss says:

        It’s probably really the best thing to kind of ignore the whole Shawgate thing (as the new writers do, too).

        As Sarah said: It was a mistake and it will not happen again, can we please forget it…

        For me it’s simple:
        -Season 1 13 Episodes
        -Season 2 22 Epsiodes
        -Season 3 Epsiodes 14 to 19 = 6 Episodes =>
        (+vs. Beard [Stand alone])
        -Season 4 24 Epsiodes
        -Season 5 24 Epsiodes
        -Season 6 24 Epsiodes
        -Season 7 24 Epsiodes
        -Season 8 24 Epsiodes
        -Season 9 24 Epsiodes
        …you got my point

        for me (and it seems for the new writer, too, Shawgate does not exist, Season 3 only has 6+1 Episodes 😉

      • timlay says:

        odysszeuss lol yeah you maybe right just forget the fact the characters and story was a mess in season 3. Hell i deleted my itunes files i bought cause i would never bother watching them again.

      • odysszeuss says:

        Yeah, Timlay!!!

        I’m a bit serious about that ;-), because they admitted it in small circles (some tweets about that, keyword Chuckfest & Shawgate) and more there will never come about that. I really could imagine Schwedak told the new writers something like: “…and we all ignore the Shawgate storyline… …that never happened!! …we work with the underlining issues, OK! But no direct references to Shawgate!!!”

      • timlay says:

        hi odysszeuss

        Thanks for that not been able to find anything. But maybe thats the point the showrunners just want to forget about what happened in season 3. I remember they were so excited at the start of season 3 that it was going to be cool and what happened was it was a utter mess and did alot of damage to the show and no doudt to peoples futures careers. They are now trying to move on and make ammends i guess we should let them do that OK thats thats what i will do i will give them a chance

        I hereby forgive them for the mess and will like our favourate couple chuck and sarah forget that plywood was around and enjoy what we have now. This attention span of a fish thing for us MTV Generation does come in useful.

      • timlay says:

        hmm odysszeuss

        when did sarah say it was a mistake? never seen that?

      • odysszeuss says:

        out of syntax: 1×11 ca. min 22

        Sarah about the kiss in hard salami

      • Anon says:

        Sarah was going to move in with Shaw? Really,i don’t remember that.

        “Also your right why did we not see sham break up it seemed that she was with chuck while she was with shaw that makes her look really bad and seriously lacking in decent morals.”

        Shaw and Sarah had recently learned about Eve’s murder. Shaw was “emotionally swiss cheese”. Shaw fooled everybody into believing he was functioning normally. That’s why Chuck and Sarah didn’t tell him about the relationship because shaw looked like he needed things to remain the same:

        He and Sarah as partners against the ring.

        Shaw seemed to always know that he was competing with Chuck.

        ” Personally after 3.11 I wanted sarah killed off i had enough of her. They seem to be trying to fix the damage to the characters in season 4 but i still have issues with certain characters especially sarah.”

        Some people still watch the show for Sarah and Yvonne.While some watch it for Chuck and Zac.
        They couldn’t kill Sarah off.That would be a big blow to the show.

        I’m sure some fans would be outraged at the mere suggestion 😛

        It’s actually sad for the writers,they made some of the fans dislike the characters so much.

      • timlay says:

        hi anon

        yes it was said i think 3.11 or something like that maybe 3.12 she was moving to DC for a new job and to be with shaw. In 3.17 it became clear they were a real couple more than she had ever been with bryce or chuck.

        As for the exscuse that sarah and shaw were still partners against the ring only chuck knew he was swiss cheese .. sarah defended him against chucks reservations. We also had chris fedek telling the fans how perfect sarah and shaw were. Looking back it was a nero fiddling while watching rome burn. The show was tanking and losing fans by the week and they were telling us it was fine and hold on for an epic resolution. LOL

        Meanwhile i remember when i voiced how much i hated the story with so many others (about 2.7 million in the end) the various critics and cheerleaders told us to shut up. That was the moment i stopped watching and yes they made me hate the show.

        Thankfully season 4 is alot better but as jason says its very hard to forget that. Those that voiced honestly how much season 3 was rubbish got hate mail and were told they just have a sense of entitlement. I find it amusing that so many of those people openly admit now season 3 was not that good and it did alot of damage to the show. It also did alot of damage to the fan base i would not go out and save the show unlike i did in season 2, i doudt we could mobilise in the same way.

        Brain bleach was needed by alot of us and like i have said i have not watched season 3 again. Whereas i watch season 1,2 and 4 again and again. Just like i do with firefly and babylon 5.

      • Anon says:

        The writers were trying to justify the direction they took.

        Too bad,they turned people off Sarah 🙂

      • atcdave says:

        timlay, if you were reading here last season you know I agree entirely about S3 and what it did to Sarah. 3.17 tried to make a joke of the Sham but only POed some of us even more. But I do think the best course is mostly to forget it. They replaced most of the writing staff (even if JS was likely most to blame) and have clearly made an effort to get back to the fun feeling and more likable characters. I’m having a great time with S4, I just wish it all flowed better with my S3 discs in the fireplace…

    • timlay says:

      Tamara Burks I actually love your idea of his mum trying to fix him up with other women that would be comedic genius. It gives some good oppunities of:

      Sarah being jelous
      Maybe Mamma B knows that she has a reputation with dating those she works with and does not want her boy being hurt by sarah (before they get married they seriously need to deal with that or i really do not want them to get married)
      Chuck trying to fend off girls left right and centre

      It could be brilliant!!

      • Anon says:

        “Tamara Burks I actually love your idea of his mum trying to fix him up with other women that would be comedic genius.”

        That could be fun but i think Sarah already got the approval from Mary. “Protect him.”

      • timlay says:

        it could still work, she maybe happy with her protecting him but does she know sarah’s reputation. She may find out what people say about her, do some digging then decide i need to find my boy a better woman. That would be cool as its should be played for laughs .. gives us a chance to see lioness sarah fighting for her man. It would indeed i think be in one episode. But i really love Tamara Burks idea above it could be very funny.

      • atcdave says:

        I think its WAY too late to play that game. Sarah has vastly more credibility as Chuck’s protector and partner than mom does.

      • thinkling says:

        Ditto that, Dave.

      • Tamara Burks says:

        Mama B ‘s lack of credibility could play into that . Because Ellie is safely married to a nice guy she would focus any matchmaking urges on Chuck becuase she’s desperate to connect with him especially given that Chuck has gotten nothing good from her so far in this season .

        And extending Sham (especially the receipt bit in Living Dead) did nothing good for the plotline at all and was completely unnecessary . There should have been at least one ep between the end of Sham and the beginning of Charah. Instead of that in AH , we got Sarah having dinner with Shaw, rejecting Chuck for a hypocritical reason, her kissing Shaw while Chuck saw , then he acted like he was handing over the keys to a rental to Chuck when he left to go on a suicide mission (was THAT suppossed to be the breakup, if so it was insufficient) then she was packing to go to Chuck at the end but was easily talked into going with Shaw and didn’t try to call until later or seem suspicious that she couldn’t call. And while we know that she was going with Chuck, there’s no reason to think Chuck knows that or if he knows believes it since he found her with Shaw (and later she stupidly trusted Shaw to nor kill her even though she knew he was serious enough about avenging his wife to committ suicide (and Beckman was dumb for buying it too) ) . If they’d kept the Sham the original length ( and none of the add ins in the back six like the receipt pile and Sarah saying Daniel when everyone said Shaw upon seeing the footage proving Shaw was alive) then Sarah’s character wouldn’t have been as badly damaged , the ratings wouldn’t have dropped so much and the storyline would have been much better.

      • Anon says:

        ” If they’d kept the Sham the original length ( and none of the add ins in the back six like the receipt pile and Sarah saying Daniel when everyone said Shaw upon seeing the footage proving Shaw was alive) then Sarah’s character wouldn’t have been as badly damaged , the ratings wouldn’t have dropped so much and the storyline would have been much better.”

        That “Daniel” line was maybe for portraying as someone who didn’t just drop him. Maybe it was just to piss people off.

        I don’t get why you would want to anger your fans though.

  21. jason says:

    guys n gals – if you can’t forgive sarah the character after 4×9’s display of passion for chuck by sarah, I don’t think you ever will.

    For me, it is more schwedak, I can forgive them, I just don’t trust them to write CS together for the duration of the show, I honestly don’t think I ever will trust either of them as showrunners again, in this show or in any other show either does, unless something changes – 4×9 was a step in the right direction.

    and so far in season 4, CS have been handled really well from my very shipperish POV on screen, I only did not like 4×6’s end coupled with 4×7’s title. My dislike was not so much that I felt it was going to be a breakup of CS (since I knew what 4×9 was going to be, it was directly spoiled on the internet if you knew where to look) – but what got me about 4×6’s end and 4×7’s title, was the fact TPTB / NBC played the angst shell game with the fans – if you note, that is the point viewership started dropping off – why do that, it directly rubbed salt in the wounds caused by S3 and that were just starting to heal – very insensitive?

    I am surprised SChwedak have not made some attempt to cool season 3’s mistake with 2-3 throw away lines, it isn’t like they never have written contradictory stuff b4 – my guess is those lines would help those wounded by season 3 more than those lines would irritate those who look at each line and insist on consistency – but that is my opinion only, sure others may differ – LOL.

    • timlay says:

      Hi Jason

      no I agree

      Never said i did not forgive her .. not for me to do that. What i am saying is they need to deal with the issues caused by season 3 that she has a reputation which was confirmed by her actions in season 3 and that just does not go away. The more they ignore it the less i am enjoying the season. They have gone as i said a long way to fixing that and maybe their is more to come. Chuck also needs to take some control in their relationship or at least become her equal in it we maybe saw the start of that in phase 3.

      As I said I really like phase 3 and indeed most of the season the worst episode was fear of death really seriously after everything that has happened sarah is the rock on the intersect the fact in the end of season 2 chuck flashed when she was in danger. Seriously have they just forgot chucks actions last season in taking down the ring.

      I did say sarah is alot better now, more like the cool sexy agent (oh yeah loving that) and the wonderful girlfriend we all wish we had.

      But i do agree with you the arrogance of SChwedak in their shell games and indeed some of the cheerleaders puts as others have said in this thread off watching. As a casual viewer i look at the information and decide if i will enjoy it or not if i think i will not I do not watch (where was it completely spoiled? where was that on the internet?).

      But that is the point season 4 is great really!! its what season 3 should have been, but i was not going to watch season 4 after the mess of season 3. We are down from 7 mil to 4 why well we have more casual viewers and alot are gun shy thats my thoughts. There is i think damage been done to the fan base and your right i am surprised SChwedak have not realised that when they play the arrogant shell games the core fans may understand but those that are now less invested well we just roll eyes and switch over or just do not tune in.

      • jason says:

        tim – i offer this link as the best source of honest spoilers on the internet, however, you have to read between the lines, put up with a fair amount of cleverness, yet BS in order to find the truth out, and if you are a shipper, you will be treated like a christian being fed to the lions by the site runner, but he does entertain and he does spoil – he sometimes posts here, if he reads this I hope he would not take offense to how I characterized his style:


      • odysszeuss says:

        Great description, Jason 😉

      • timlay says:

        yeah i am aware of his style hes not a cheerleader i follow i find his attitude offensive.

    • thinkling says:

      I wouldn’t mind a throw away line or two, but it’s not necessary for me. If handled properly, it could ease some hurt. If handled poorly, it could open up old wounds.

      To me, it’s clear that Chuck & Sarah have forgiven each other, and that’s good enough for me. (And yes, I think Chuck has as much to be forgiven for as Sarah, maybe more.) TPTB have started writing the real Sarah again, and I love that so much that I’d rather not even look back.

      I know some viewers are still pretty torn up about s3. However, it does not seem that Chuck & Sarah are. They’ve taken care of their issues and moved on, thank goodness. I choose to move on with them and enjoy their story.

      I think TPTB have held out an olive branch … maybe even a whole orchard. I’ve accepted their offering, and I’m on the cusp of real trust going forward.

      • timlay says:

        Yeah it does seem they maybe trying to make ammends. I saw the recent tweet from josh saying he was at least glad the fans loved the episode. YES WE DID. But they have to learn to stop winding people up they really do not have the good will to do that. I think Jason has a point we do start seeing drop offs when the spoilers came out that there was a breakup/seperation.

        They need to deal with the issues, certainly phase 3 did that very well. Yeah I would glady forget season 3 as i said i have deleted my files for season 3 and not bothered watching it again so no point in keeping the season on my hard drive.

      • thinkling says:

        Sometimes it’s the people who write the promos.

        If you take away the backdrop of s3, we’ve just had some good drama, s2 style. In fact some of the s2 stuff bothered me more, b/c of the wtwt angle and the triangles. I’m so much happier with the C/S we have now and the drama that the story is generating.

        My take is that it’s the combo of stupid promo writing and the after taste of s3 that has turned people off.

      • jason says:

        @think – good advice like usual – regading schedak, chuck, and sarah – I would guess I am about a season and a half behind your viewpoint if that makes any sense, maybe I will start trusting if things are still ok by the end of season 5.

        please don’t take this as a guy thing, for example, in castle, I hope beckett just kicks castle’s butt for 2 or 3 seasons, as castle holds the upper relationship hand there & he blew it … but in chuck, chuck vs hannah, chuck vs jill, chuck vs lou (I liked lou), all sarah had to do was go in her best blond she male voice – ‘chuck – supply closet – now’ and she had chuck – to me, that is why her choice to be with shaw was viewed differently than any of the other choices chuck made.

        I to this day, thousands of blog words read by me, 13 s3 episode arc, plus the last 2 tainted episodes with shaw’s foul odor for schedak to make a case for sarah – shaw – I still can not coherently tell you why, why sarah as a character, why schedak as a creative team, other than schedak honestly was trying to hurt the shipper group as much as possible. In that, nearly a year later, I am 100% sure schedak was successful with season 3’s misery arc.

      • joe says:

        Jason, you just put your finger on why, in the end, I can’t buy the “S3 was an unredeemable disaster” line.

        You see, although you may be right that “…all sarah had to do was go in her best blond she male voice – ‘chuck – supply closet – now’ and she had chuck”, that’s not Sarah. That may be Sarah pre-Chuck, and that may be Sarah with Bryce. Disregarding the fact that neither Casey nor I like that person very much, that’s not Sarah now.

        Gee, I think *I* would have given up on the show if TPTB had taken that tack!

      • Anon says:

        I think Sarah couldn’t use the blond she-male persona. Because at the end,Beckman wanted Chuck to be independent. Danger of re-assignment is a good excuse here.

        But i don’t get the jokes in the latter part of the season 3.

      • jason says:

        joe- ‘chuck, …. now’ was not the s1/s2 sarah either, matter of fact, she probably is closer to that women in 4×9 that she ever has been – and that is a great thing!!!!

        she honestly should be admired for not taking advantage of chuck’s puppy eyed love for her in s1/s2 – not sure how you think s3 fixed anything – can u try to explain how season 3 cemented your love for sarah vs s1/s2’s version of sarah? – I am very confused by your statement, and normally I can make stuff up to fit near any opinion?

        Again – I did not suggest that sarah should say ‘chuck now’, only that sarah had all the power in their relationship, or in s3 lack of relationship, and her taking shaw on as her lover, was done fully realizing she could have chuck whenever and however she wanted – she picked shaw.

      • Anon says:

        Jason,what you are suggesting would portray Sarah even worse than what we were shown.

        Ideally,producers hope to have likable and interesting lead characters 🙂 What you insuniated would destroy the show by the end of season 1.

      • joe says:

        Oh, I agree, Jason. That’s not S1/S2 Sarah either. She started changing when Chuck helped the Ballerina and her father, which is why it was hard to see. We only caught glimpses of pre-Chuck Sarah and I got an eyeful in 4.09.

        It *is* a great thing that she’s changed that much.

        But you see, S3 didn’t “fix” anything. In fact, it showed me some of that Sarah who is not so admirable – she was backsliding horribly without Chuck/with Shaw as a human being (and if I read The Mask at all correctly, she wasn’t all that effective as a spy either). The one thing S3 does real well for me is set up and highlight the contrast.

        That’s an interesting point about Sarah having the power in the relationship. Boy, would I like to agree with that! My natural inclination screams “YES!” to that. But wasn’t Chuck the one who said “no” in Prague? And actually, he said no a few times, mostly at the fountain. He did it in The Breakup and in a way, he did it at the end of Lethal Weapon. Hannah was Chuck’s way of trying to get past his love for Sarah I think, and Shaw was merely a reaction to that.

      • jason says:

        joe – I just hate when people put words in my writing, but are you suggesting how lost sarah was in season 3 without chuck made you admire her more once she got to season 3.5 or 4? That is fair enough – do you think that was ‘the plan’ from schedak? Lets make all of our fans hate sarah without chuck, so when sarah goes back to chuck after dumping chuck and choosing shaw as her life’s partner and soul mate, fans will be really happy?

        Joe of course I am just kidding around with you, and I know I would have better luck convincing fedak that season 3 sucked than you, but seriously, sucking doesn’t mean everyone hates it, just means a portion of the fan base hated it – and by all accounts, a portion of chuck’s fans HATED season 3’s misery arc.

      • thinkling says:

        @Joe and Jason:

        Joe, you hit the nail on the head. Hannah was Chuck’s way of trying to get past his love for Sarah I think, and Shaw was merely a reaction to that.

        I don’t see Sarah as having chosen Shaw. She had lost Chuck (not just to Hannah, but also to the black hole of espionage – or so she thought) and feared she was losing herself. So she defaulted to the only kind of relationship she understood and the only kind she thought she deserved. Like Joe said … pure reaction. She never loved Shaw.

        Jason, you said Sarah could have had Chuck any time she wanted. First, had she pursued her real feelings for Chuck, she would have been reassigned (Broken Heart). Since, she didn’t see any way to have a real relationship, she didn’t lead him on. She was a noble on that front as he was (and she didn’t like it when Carina did it to Morgan).

        That leads us to what happened after Chuck downloaded the 2.0. She made the decision at the end of Ring that she wanted to be with Chuck. After he reintersected, she began to fear for him, though we didn’t know why or how visceral that fear was until 10 episodes later (huge story telling mistake). So, Jason, she does exactly what you said she had the power to do. She says, “Chuck, train station.” He says Oh yeah! Then he leaves her standing alone on the platform with her suitcase.

        She no longer has any power or any relationship. She is thrown into deep hurt and encroaching fear. She closes off.

        Joe, reaction is the key word. Thank you. Only, it wasn’t just that Shaw was a reaction. Sarah was in reaction mode all of the first part of s3. She was losing the man who had awakened the best in her, the man who had made her a real person again. In that loss, she was plunged into a personal existential crisis.

        The reason she didn’t grow, the reason she was all over the place was that she was always reacting. She didn’t know who she was enough to act. All she could do was react. She was a kite in the wind with nothing or no one to tether her. She was worse off than she had been before Chuck, b/c with him she had experienced something better, and now she no longer had it. She didn’t want to go back to the pre-Chuck Sarah, but without Chuck, she had no one to help her become the person she was trying to be. She was nobody once more, nothing but a spy.

        Take her Phase 3 confession and reason backward. In ss1&2, she had discovered the positive that she was different with Chuck, and she liked it. In s3 she was without Chuck, not liking it, and trying to figure out who she was.

        It was a miserable thing to do to such a wonderful character. Chuck was just as miserable. No wonder we call it the misery arc.

      • jason says:

        think – the basic premise of the wt/wt aspect of the nerd gets the girl, is the nerd can’t get the girl, sure, at times to propagate the wt/wt, sarah failed to get chuck, often at the expense of the story’s credibility (Prague train station for example) – so yea – sarah has the power in the relationship – just as Rick Castle has the power in the show castle – and to re-emphasize my point, that is why when sarah picked shaw as the man she was moving in with and becoming professional and personal partners with (moving in was a big step as we found out she could not do with chuck as quickly as she did with shaw, chuck was after all her second choice), lets give her some credit – she fell in love with shaw – her soulmate – everlasting love – in most universes – the best love story ever told – yada – yada -yada – i need faith’s gif before I throw my monitor through my window – geez

      • thinkling says:


        You and I agree on a lot of things, and we agree that s3 did terrible damage to two beloved characters. I’d be glad not to bring it up any more, too. But sometimes I end up wading in again.

        Like your view of Sarah, I really don’t see what you see. When Chuck asked Sarah if she was serious with Shaw and if she was going to move in with him, she said she didn’t know. So, she hadn’t decided to move in with him. And in fact she didn’t ever move in with him. I also don’t see any credible evidence that she fell in love with Shaw. But I do see evidence in every episode that she was still in love with Chuck.

        However, I’m mostly happier not thinking about it. Like I said, Chuck & Sarah have forgiven each other, and that’s good enough for me. I love s4 and the return of the real Sarah so much that I’d rather not look back. So, I choose to move on with C/S and enjoy their story. It beats throwing my monitor through the window. 😉

        I can identify with what Herder said. At some point I have to move beyond what I feel about season 3 in order to fully enjoy season four, I’ve said enough about season 3, for me it’s time to move on. We can never enjoy the present if we hold on to pain from the past. Same goes for enjoying s4. S3 doesn’t have a hold on anyone. It’s us that won’t let it go.

        Sorry, I didn’t mean to wax philosophical. All done. 🙂

      • Joseph (can't be Joe) says:

        Joe, thinkling, Jason – from reading all of the above I think it’s safe to say that we all have different views on what the purpose of the supposed Sarah journey was last season. Let’s face it, it was just confusing. The fact that we are all decently intelligent people and can’t come to a concensus it what is troubling. Shaw may have been a failure as a character, but Sarah’s S3 journey was a failure of storytelling.

        My guess is that our views on S4 Sarah would generally be closer to looking all alike, because we are not relying on “the intent” of the story, we are being TOLD what she is going through in her interactions with others.

      • joe says:

        Those are wise words, Joseph. Thanks!

      • thinkling says:

        Great point, Joseph, agree completely. That’s probably why we keep rehashing everything … just trying to make sense of it.

        The unambiguousness of s4 in general and of Sarah and the relationship specifically is a gale of fresh air. We can enjoy the ride again. And what a great ride it is.

    • timlay says:

      jason lol

      yeah i agree I really do not understand season 3. Probably never will if they intended hurting the shippers well they did and lost about 2 mill viewers and went down to a 4.8? in the season final 2 parter. If that was the reason mission accomplished.

      I think for me the final nail in that coffin was the earrings and the book, that was like yeah they are that cruel.

      • odysszeuss says:

        The reckon thing: Sarah, “interrogation” and earrings really was awful. until that, there was a possibility nothing really happened between Sarah + Plywood. awful, awful, awful

        Kamasutra book in Shaw’s Loft???

      • timlay says:

        Yeah by then they knew how unpopular the first 13 was and they chose to go with that. It can at that point only be either they were locked into the story as it had been filmed or they were just being purposely cruel if its the latter then i cannot trust them to write a decent story.

      • Anon says:

        Did they really lose 2 million viewer in the last two episodes? If that’s really the case,i think that was rather short-sighted of them.

        And maybe arrogant.

      • timlay says:

        Hi anon not in the last 2 episodes it was a slow drip drip effect

        check on this wikipedia


        3.1 we had 7.7 viewers

        we started to see a steady drop in the figures by 3.10 we were down to 5.8

        the season final only drew in part 1 4.9 and the last episode was 5.06

        no one can really say it was any other factor other than the fans hated the show there was a major fan rebellion after 3.7 and thats really when the rot started

        I know by 3.8 i had enough and stopped watching. I saw honeymooners, loved rolemodels was happy with tooth then saw 3.17 with the fiasco of the book and earrings and stopped watching for good and vowed never to watch the show again.

      • Anon says:

        “I know by 3.8 i had enough and stopped watching. I saw honeymooners, loved rolemodels was happy with tooth then saw 3.17 with the fiasco of the book and earrings and stopped watching for good and vowed never to watch the show again.”

        It’s this level of passion the producers hope for. Just not the negative aspects of it 😛

      • timlay says:

        yeah anon prior to season 3 I had that kind of passion for the show.

        my whole family who are neilson watched it avidly i loved the show best thing on TV. It was a big family watching not anymore. I have not watched the show for the last 3 episodes whated them after i read reviews.

        They really ruined the show last season my family refuse to watch it. I have come back because of what i have read and seen and heard. I am giving them a chance, there is about 2 million people that never did come back.

      • joe says:

        Timlay, I wouldn’t make too big a thing out of the ratings. If Chuck gets a fifth season then it joins the group of TV shows that are considered long-running and commercially successful. It’s very close to that regardless of the current numbers. NBC’s predicament makes the show’s fate less than clear.

        Now artistically, thematically and from a storytelling POV, many of us already call it successful – wildly so, actually. But yes, I’m a biased fan.

        I don’t have the majority opinion. You do. There are 6.3 billion people in the world and less than 6 million watch the show regularly, and a few of those don’t even enjoy the hour they spend. But those numbers sort of miss the point, don’t you think?

      • timlay says:

        hi joe

        i agree its a shame we are where we are. It need not have been like this DO NOT GET ME WRONG I AM SO FAR LOVING SEASON 4. If they continue with what they are doing then they will keep my attention .. if not then i will just watch something else. I feel no warmth to the show per say any more as i said i am not a fan just a casual viewer. I gave undercovers a chance and thought chuck was far better. They picked the wrong leads there. I think though the viewing figures are an indication how successful any show is but not the whole story.

    • JC says:

      Jason is right, Phase Three was the episode that fixed most of S3’s damage to Sarah’s character.

      I know some fans are still upset about S3 and the way Sarah was written. Its easier if you look at her and most of the other characters like the writers did. Plot devices meant to servce the growth of Chuck. She didn’t have one moment of growth that solely impacted her alone, it was all tied to Chuck. Every action she did was completely forgotten about the next episode.

      The same goes with her relationship with Shaw. It was potrayed as nothing until the writers needed Chuck to do or learn something than it was serious.

      She was the only character that you could look at from Ring PT1 to Other Guy and not see any change. Compare that Chuck, Morgan and Casey.

      • timlay says:

        JC there was change in sarah but it was negative change she was less warm and caring about chuck, she was less agent like something even critics noticed – man they were so asleep last year. She was just not a great character, everything that had gone before was swept away for an imposter that was not sarah in any way.

      • JC says:

        I think you’re misunderstanding what I’m getting at.

        What we saw of Sarah during S3 negative or positive never carried over from episode to episode. Her actions carried no consequences and she learned nothing. All it did was push Chuck and the non existent spy story forward. And in the end her character never changed from Ring Pt1 to Other Guy. You could even argue that there was minimal growth in the back six and that’s why they had to revisit themes this season. Her “arc” was merely a means to an end and that was to make Chuck an action hero.

        Compare that to Chuck who’s worst and best moments in S3 actually contributed to the man we saw in Other Guy and Ring PT2. That’s actual character growth.

      • timlay says:

        Ahh yes JC understand Yes I AGREE I think that is why some of us feel that there was major damage done and why I feel that she was not really that awesome. She was as you say all over the place.

      • timlay says:

        Sorry I have not personally attacked anyone and i do not see why i should accept that kind of behaviour

      • alladinsgenie4u says:

        @Faith – LMAO.

      • Faith says:

        I wasn’t referring to you specifically but the subject matter. S3 and rehashing S3 to me (and I’m entitled to my own opinion) is like beating your head against the wall. Just frustrating.

      • timlay says:

        so much for this being a friendly place to discuss things oh well I really have better things to do with my time.

      • alladinsgenie4u says:

        @timlay – Agree with Faith. IMHO, we have beat Season 3 to death and our fingertips have bled from doing so.

      • jason says:

        faith – I am banging mine too – I keep telling myself – I won’t be baited into a S3 discussion, I won’t be baited into a S3 discussion, works just fine, then someone writes something stupid and ARGGGGHHHHH!

      • Anon says:

        I like beating a dead horse. It’s dead so no cruelty 🙂

        I didn’t like it(well,parts of it) when it was alive so what’s the harm? 😛

      • jason says:

        faith – seems far less (almost none) leaks from the set this season and spoilers / teasers out there, such that the blogs seem to have less to talk about – here on saturday morning, we actually had several bloggers start an interesting discussion about volkov, meb, the intersect, etc – but we have so few clues to go on or for some other reason, the conversation quickly degenerated into s3’s misery – that is why I hope 2 things

        1 – I hope the holiday break is well controlled by TPTB with great promo’s and spoilers that gets the fans legitimately excited

        2 – I hope shaw is not brought back, he will drag this show’s discussion down so low that hell will seem high in the stars

      • herder says:

        At the risk of sounding overly wishy-washy, while I don’t have any problems with people discussing season three in general and any of what timlay is saying in specific, it’s just that I am somewhat tired of the topic. I tend to agree with Faith that for me the topic is kind of like hitting your head against a brick wall, I think all of us had problems with it to greater or lesser extents, but the truth is that nothing is going to change the fact that it has aired in the way that it did and it has had the effect on ratings that it did.

        Where it is relevant comparisons between season four and three are reasonable for instance lioness Sarah from Phase 3 vs passive Sarah from Natcho Sampler or how Sarah reacted to the mission in First Class vs how she reacted in Fear of Death. But for myself at least, at some point I have to move beyond what I feel about season 3 in order to fully enjoy season four, I’ve said enough about season 3, for me it’s time to move on.

      • atcdave says:

        I’ll never forget S3 and I don’t intend to. But it has been discussed at great length. Its rather boring now unless something happens that reopens the subject. But TPTB seem determined to put it behind them; I hope it stays there.

      • JC says:

        It would make sense the last two episodes would bring up the specter of S3 for some people.

        My first reaction to FOD was it was a leftover script from last season. An outside agent is brought in to train Chuck and he comes to the conclusion that Sarah is to blame. Sounds awfully familiar.

        Then in Phase Three you have Sarah rampaging across Thailand. This was the same woman who was going to let Chuck die in Beard?

        It doesn’t surprise me that these episodes would bring up S3 talk again. Trying to understand what you saw previously into what’s happening now especially when it comes to Sarah.

      • Faith says:

        I apologize if I made you feel unwelcome timlay. I do not speak for the blog. Hence my “I’m entitled to my own opinion.”

        Jason, I wouldn’t worry about that front—I think TPTB knows and rightly so just how sensitive the fan base is with regards to Shaw. As for leaks well I’m actually sort of upset at the lack of play. We could be getting so much ink on this engagement. Smallville is going crazy with theirs and the world is loving it. Chuck needs to do more good PR stuff like that but I understand that the demographic is different. I will always insist that Chuck be sold to women but I am just one woman.

      • atcdave says:

        I think there’s a huge PR issue here they’re ignoring. Play up the coming proposal, then promote the engaged couple like crazy, all the way to the wedding. The entertainment media loves prime time weddings, there would be TONS of free publicity; AND it would be a bit of an olive branch to those 2+ million viewers we lost last season. We might get a few of them back.

        Oh well. NBC is apparently happy having a cheap show they spend nothing to promote just pulling marginal but steady numbers.

      • JC says:

        I really don’t understand it either Faith. The TPTB are so fearful of spoilers and leaks, it makes no sense. If something that a lot fans want to see is coming let it out. All it does is generate good buzz for the show.

      • thinkling says:

        Yeah, it seems like they have their check valves installed backwards. They should let the good stuff leak through and put a check on the tension producing stuff.

      • alladinsgenie4u says:

        @thinkling – But that’s what JS/CF love to do. Leak out tension filled stuff just for the heck of it. 😉

      • thinkling says:

        @Faith: Make that two women. I’ll join the chorus to market to women.

      • thinkling says:

        I know Alladins, but at some point you’d think they’d learn what doesn’t work … or learn what does work for other shows.

      • JC says:

        Whats funny about that is the TPTB constantly complain that there’s more than just Chuck and Sarah to the show. Yet it’s what they promote the most.

      • atcdave says:

        Funny about the check valves! I don’t think its all Schwedak’s fault. I’ve laughed a few times when they have tried to calm nerves about what’s coming and the network people writing synopsis make it all sound horrible. Part of it is, they just aren’t all on the same page. And NBC in particular seems more clueless about fan attitudes and morale than the show runners.

      • atcdave says:

        JC, that’s more than just promotion, that’s how they structure the show too. If they cared about the spy story Chuck and Sarah would have been engaged since about 4.04, and Frost/Volkoff would have moved to center stage for a while.

        I think their actions speak louder than their words on the “what its really about” front.

      • JC says:

        No doubt about that Dave. I think we talked about this before. Just look at S3 that’s what the whole season was about. Zero spy plot and all relationship drama.

        But I think part of it is they know the spy stories in general fall flat. The individual pieces of the story are usually great and seem to be setting up greatness but the resolutions never measure up. Hopefully this season changes that.

  22. herder says:

    So far we have had Chuck’s dreams in 3D, the Tooth and sort of in Phase 3, Morgan dreamed the opening to Role Models. I don’t want to see it overused but to see a dream of Sarah’s or Casey’s might be interesting.

    Sarah could either dream about something she finds unexpectedly pleasant; family time, pregnancy or a white wedding alternatively she could have a night mare about something she fears such as Chuck leaving her because of some personality flaw this could be part of a Sarah back story dealing with a part of her past that she isn’t too proud of. As we have just had a big Sarah episode, this would have to be in the back eleven.

    Casey’s could be some sort of happy violence interrupted by Chuck and Sarah making out or their announcing domestic bliss and that they are leaving the spy life (Casey’s nightmare). The rest of the episode he could be giving them strange looks.

    • jason says:

      herder – I so want beckman to come on screen, casey and morgan answer – no CS, beckman ask where is agent walker and chuck – morgan shrugs, casey goes, ‘they are in conference, I’ll go get them’ – and off to the supply closet casey goes, just one 5 sec supply closet scene – be so much fun!

      • timlay says:

        LOL that would be funny

        or security footage of them going into the supply closet LOL and beckman wondering whats going on asking them in briefing LOL or hearing something and sending in a security team LOL

        I am really loving Beckman and Morgan

      • thinkling says:

        comedy gold.

      • timlay says:

        yes it would be i hope we see something like that there has not been alot of comedy this season. I loved when chuck could hear his sister making out against the door … It would be just a funny thing god things are dark enough in our real world right now.

  23. alladinsgenie4u says:

    What about the Buy More sub plot – Morgan planning for the holiday shopping. Will we get another pineapple moment? Or will we see the civilian employees take out some of Volkoff’s men – accidentaly that is. Will Jeff bring out his chloroform again? Truth be told it would be great if we see some Casey taking out Volkoff’s team with the help of the CIA employees.


    • timlay says:

      That would be cool seeing the buymorons take out volkovs crack team with casey and the CIA employees. That would be a good sucker punch to volkov.

    • alladinsgenie4u says:

      Hit the ‘Post Comment’ early.

      If Volkoff first comes to the BuyMore looking for Frost and the Leftovers meal is after that – it wouldn’t make sense for his team to stick around in the Buy More – unless of course their mission is to destroy the CIA station – not likely though – they did this in Beard.

      So, I am guessing that the Leftovers meal will happen in the later stages of the episode.

    • amyabn says:

      I would love it if Morgan called Chuck about the troubles at the BM with Black Friday and Chuck tells him he should call “Dianne” to see if she could send some help over and that he should ask for that really efficient Nerd Herder, Greta, since he is tied up with family at Ellies. It looks like Casey has been nabbed, so it would be up to the new BM employees to police up the baddies.

      I wonder if Yvonne and Monet Mazur will have a fight. Monet is the one with the curly hair. She was also in the move, Torque. She looks like she could play Sarah’s big sister. Now wouldn’t that be a twist?

    • JC says:

      Those promo pics show a lack of Casey and Morgan at the dinner. My guess is that they’re being held as hostages at the BuyMore so we might get some BuyMorians save the day again. Too bad they didn’t save Summer Glau for this episode.

      One question? Do we know if Alex is in the episode?

      • alladinsgenie4u says:

        If Volkoff is having dinner at the Bartowskis why would his team be still holding the Buy More hostage. Has Volkoff come to Burbank for two objectives – get Frost and destroy the CIA station. As I said above, it wouldn’t make sense for Volkoff’s team to be in Buy more when Volkoff has secured Frost’s release and is having dinner at Ellie’s.(from the promo it’s certain that the dinner comes after the Buy More scenes.

        @JC- Don’t know anything about Alex. But as with FOD she could very well make an appearance.

      • JC says:

        It would make sense if they’re holding Casey there as insurance. From the promo we know Casey gets caught and he’s not at dinner so I’m assuming he’s held hostage.

        Of course they could just hold him hostage somewhere else, but a BuyMorians and Morgan saves the day plot seems likely.

    • thinkling says:

      I really can’t figure out the Buymore plot. Not that I figured out the rest, but I at least have a guess or two. Looks like dual invasions at the Buymore for the biggest shopping day of the year.

      And where is everybody when C/S are in body armor and Volkoff has his gun in Chuck’s face. That could really put a damper your shopping day.

      So, I’m guessing there was a pineapple moment. It’s fast becoming a tradition. Poor Buymore, something always interrupts their big sale day.

      And is Monet Mazur the same smart-bullets-naked-spy character, or is she a miscellaneous baddie?

      Are they going to do away with the Buymore again?

      Maybe Dianne will make another appearance … you know with legs. I’d like that.

      So many questions today … answers tomorrow.

  24. Rick Holy says:

    This is just my personal opinion and I don’t speak for or in anyway represent this blog or its originator. Therefore, it is my most sincere desire that no one takes offense at what might be implied in what I’m about to say. If anyone’s feelings are hurt, please know that this is in NO WAY intended to be a personal attack against anyone – no matter “Chuckaholic” or Casual Viewer, “Shipper” or “Non-shipper,” “Still P.O’d about Season 3” or “Don’t even want to think about Season 3 anymore.”


    And friends, one and all – PEACE! 😉

  25. Robert H says:

    I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again, there comes a time when you have to let something go, no
    matter how hard it may be personally.

    I still can’t believe Season 3 is still being rehashed and there apparently are still a lot of
    people who are not watching the show now because of
    bitterness of last year’s fiasco.

    I can appreciate how they feel. I, too, felt embittered and betrayed by the producers. Their
    misjudgements and arrogance regarding the fan base was
    just utterly astounding and almost detroyed the show. (It may still ultimately destroy the show if more viewers don’t come back.)

    But there comes a time to let it go. It almost seems
    like the people who stopped watching the show are
    continuing to not watch,not because Season 4 is
    bad but almost out of a sense of taking revenge in
    an attempt to destroy it beause of their continued
    bitterness over Season 3.

    Well if this is their intention, it may well succeed
    in the end. The ratings may be starting to drop.
    Last weeks episode was one of the best ever. The
    ratings were 1.7. Never mind the explanations, no matter how valid-the finale of DWTS, other ratings drops with other shows, the blizzard in the Northwest and so on-they were still a 1.7 which is
    not good. They need to bounce back if the show is to
    have any chance for survival.

    Which brings me to my point. Is cancellation what these people want? I mean really? Is this their means of getting revenge? Well as they say, be careful of what you wish for-you may get it because
    if a good portion of the fan base does not return
    cancellation may well happen. Will that make these people happy? Because if that is their intention they
    are no better than the producers who treated the fan
    base so badly after the end of Season 2 and during
    the mess of Season 3, especially after a lot of these very same people participated in the campaign
    to save the show at Season 2’s end.

    I can understand how they feel. I was one of them
    and I totally agree with them about how the Sarah
    character and her relationships with the Chuck/Shaw
    characters. To say the least it was handled very
    badly. The heat was on during the earring/interogation scene with Casey and Chuck
    trying to defend Sarah (he didn’t want to face the truth). The scene was conveniently interrupted with
    another Schwartz/Fedak diversion and we never did get
    the complete truth-it had to be inferred, Sarah did
    sleep with Shaw and was involved in a sexual relationship with him. Then she bounces back to Chuck in Episode 12. It did make her look very bad.
    I had and am continuing to have issues with the way the Chuck character was changed after Season 2, through Season 3, right up so far with Season 4.
    Something of the essence of the character we saw in
    the first two seasons is gone and we only see bits and pieces now. I know most people don’t agree with me
    and that’s ok. People are entitled to their opinions
    and this is just how I feel about it.

    But despite it all I continued to watch the show
    despite my disappointment with Season 3 and have continued to watch so far in Season 4.

    Which brings me full circle here. There comes a time
    when you have to let it go. Season 3 is history. It
    can’t be changed,rewritten, or reshot. It’s done.
    Hopefully the producers have learned from their mistakes and it appears, at least so far they have.
    Season 4, while not perfect, has been so much better
    than last year and amends have been made insofar as
    possible. To continue to flog the show over last year will help to insure its destruction. Once again
    I ask, is that what these people really want?

    Last but not least none of the above was directed at you Timlay. Very glad to have you back as a viewer and I hope you continue to watch and hope
    you ask your friends and family to give the show a
    try again. It is so much better than last year and
    hopefully will continue to improve. I totally agree
    with you about last year. It was a mess and a disaster that shouldn’t have happened but it did.

    But it’s now history. If the show is to be saved for
    a 5th season it desperately needs former viewers like you back and I hope you will do what you can to
    get former and new viewers to watch the show. I hope
    you continue to contribute to the blog. It’s fun to
    read simply because of the diversity of views offered here and everyone has a right to his or her

    Season 3 is over. It’s time to move on thanks.

    • armySFC says:

      @ Robert H. i agree we should put season 3 behind us. here’s the thing, i don’t think anyone who left year wants the show canceled, that would show they are interested in it. i don’t think that’s the case at all. if you leave a show for what ever reason it takes a lot to get you back. CBS has a killer line up. say they went there and enjoy those shows more than chuck? why should they come back? maybe they just found something else to do that they enjoy, give that up as well. that’s why it’s hard to get viewers back.

      now the ratings for 4.09 they went down. people chose not to tune in. lets forget about all the outside reasons you listed and look at what went on with the show. in 4.07 the ratings went up .1 to 2.0. i didn’t think 4.07 was all that great because chuck lost the intersect again. btw it was the 7th time in the last 19 eps that happened. now now 4.08 ratings dropped to 1.8 alsmost every review i read that were not on this blog, and some here say it was the worst ep of the season, and i agree for me it stunk. in 4.09 the best ep by far of the season ratings drooped again to 1.7. same thing, they didn’t like 4.08. will it bounce back? maybe, but if it doesn’t i would rule out all those external things and say its the show. just my thoughts btw no facts on why they left. but again if people don’t like what they are watching, they leave.

      here is where season 3 comes in. it turned a lot of people off and they left. some came back. there are some sayings i could us here but the big one is, fool me once shame on you fool me twice shame on me. i said this earlier but i’ll say it again because it fits. people left because of the angst.
      3 things happened recently that had the potential for major angst. 1) sarah arresting chucks mom. (showed no faith in him) i was not opposed to her getting arrested but did sarah have to be there, no. they had a tac team there. it was added in my opinion to create the illusion of angst happening down the road.
      2) chuck’s loss of the intersect or it not working correctly has never led to anything good has it? it takes away from him and has him almost go back to season 1 chuck. (remember in the finale of 3 it rebooted and worked) again possibly leading to more angst. remember the issues it caused in season 3.
      3) your not a spy. had the potential to lead to a major blow up between the two thus causing major angst. they covered for it immensely in 4.09. if you were fence sitting fan after 4.08 and you see the previews what did tell you? that sarah was going to save chuck and go postal. for some fans it was the ultimate they were looking for, me not so much. there are a boat load of women out there on TV or in movies that do what she did all the time. the rescue and fighting is all over the place, it’s not unique any more. it never gave the fence sitting fans a glimpse of the emotional out pouring that came from sarah or her deep commitment to chuck. i know they had to keep that parts under raps because that’s what made the episode great.

      with the things i just listed and you were a fence sitting fan would you really tune in after season 3? or would your first thought be here we go again and peace out? i came close to doing it myself, but i wanted to see how it ended. if it ended badly i was done with the show. i still may if the intersect thing drags out or they split the couple “to protect chuck or his family.” i am definitely gone if it’s sarah that leaves, if chuck goes i’ll weigh my options. if it’s because he grows up and stops sniveling like in the last 3 eps ill stay, if not it will have been their second chance to hold me and they failed.

      the point i am trying to make is season 3 caused people to leave and now the casual viewer or the return viewer is afraid it may happen again. the things i listed could have cause people believe its going to happen again. i think that’s why season 3 keeps coming up. just my opinion

      • kg says:

        ArmySFC your ratings analysis is fine and as good as any I’ve read on this blog. You and others bring up thoughtful and plausible reasons why ratings drop.

        I’m just not a big fan of ratings. I think the process is antiquated and inaccurate. What??? One family with a box stops watching and that represents thousands (10s of thoustands) of viewers?

        For me, it is a waste of energy and time worrying about this subject.

        This show has been on the bubble from the outset, and here we are hours from watching season four, episode 10.

        I think it’s great that they noticed we passionately contribute to the blogs, vote C/S top TV couple, that we buy the footlongs and re-watch repeatedly on NBC.com and Hulu. This is much more representative than an archaic ratings system.

        The show will end someday. It’s inevitable. I’ll appreciate as many seasons and episodes we can get. I don’t worry about the ratings week to week. I like what they do over at Chucktv.net but never pay attention to the pieces they do about the overnights.

      • Big Kev says:

        Couldn’t agree more, KG. Living where I do there’s nothing I can do about ratings so I guess I have a fairly sanguine attitude about them.
        On a broader scale, I think the tradtional network TV model is dying. The obsession with chasing a fracturing market using old business models and even older measuring tools produces a mass of mediocre TV that I have no interest in watching. The sooner the model dies and takes the ridiculous rating system with it the better, I say.
        I love Chuck. It’s one of only 2 “must watch” shows for me (the original UK Life on Mars/ Ashes to Ashes is the other one) and one of the reasons I love the show is precisely BECAUSE it has an originality to it that high rating, formula network shows don’t have. Of course I’d love to see the show run for years, but I’ve long since given up caring about what most people watch and why, because it’s so far removed from what I find interesting or rewarding.
        Gosh, now that I’ve written that, I sound like an awful TV snob! 🙂 I don’t mean to be but I have to admit to finding a majority of network TV unwatchable.

      • kg says:

        BK well done. I’m with you. For the most part, this is a unique, heartwarming and interesting show.

        I like the characters. I watch the show. I’m to the end.

        There is a lot of crap on network TV. I don’t watch.

        Chuck is obviously number one. I like the Monday CBS lineup, but two shows coincide with Chuck. I also like 2.5 Men, Big Bang Theory (now Thursdays) and CSI Miami (now Sundays).

      • timlay says:

        There is one more that really is more a problem in my point of view we have seen the team not together for 3 episodes there is something missing when that happens. While i really enjoyed 4.9, i just could not be bothered to watch first fight and fear of death as the team was seperate. I am on record saying i wanted chuck to argue with sarah, so no not a rosey glasses relationship but at least together thats what we were promised they would be together. While i can accept a few episodes where they are apart, for operational reasons or captured etc to have them and the team apart for 3 episodes in a row is a real put off. Like i said i clocked about 15 mins where chuck and sarah and the whole team working together or talking in the last 3 episodes.

      • Anon says:

        This reminds me of Ellie’s cooking. Morgan loved it enough to take it out of garbage and try to eat it.

        Now we are facing the same problem. The turkey is good but we took it out of the garbage.

  26. kg says:

    Robert you know how much I love Sarah, have defended her and so forth. And even I admit she slept with Shaw.

    But I have a friend who staunchly says no way. He agrees she was confused and such, but basically waited for Chuck.

    I’ve told him repeatedly to re-watch Living Dead. I admit a restaurant receipt and earrings, while leading, don’t necessarily prove anything, but all day in a bachelor-pad condo while off grid? I mean they weren’t watching a DVD of Spies Like Us, right?

    • thinkling says:

      KG, I admit that it’s most likely that she slept with Shaw. However, we only know that by deduction. Until the in-your-face earring scene, we had no evidence to assert that. (Plus, it’s circumstantial evidence. It would never convict; it’s probably not even enough for an arrest ;))There’s no way to pretend that Chuck didn’t sleep with Hannah. Sarah could still refute sexual involvement. There is one thing that makes me think maybe your friend has a leg to stand on, and that’s the fact that Shaw asked Sarah at the end of Final Exam if she was still in love with Chuck. Perhaps that put the breaks on things, slowed them down just enough.

      • OldDarth says:

        PapaB referred to Shaw as Sarah’s ex-lover. Pretty definitive.

      • JC says:

        I don’t think anyone really cares that Sarah slept with someone else. Its the implication that regardless of personality and actions if she works with someone long enough she’ll fall for them.

        And again the same problem with the scene in Living Dead. The date given for the off the grid day puts it right after Final Exam. After Shaw pimped her out in that episode the fact that she runs right back to him makes Sarah look terrible.

      • thinkling says:

        Uncle. 😛

      • JC says:


        Sorry, I just felt the need to explain what I think people’s problems were. Especially as guy in this fanbase, I’ve noticed that there’s this idea we’re okay with Chuck sleeping with other people but not Sarah. And at least for me that’s not the case.

      • thinkling says:

        No, it’s OK, JC. Shaw was despicable long before he became an almost-murderer. On the good-for-the-goose-good-for-the-gander thing, I’m right with you. It does seem to me (could be my misperception) that a lot of fans put the onus for the s3 disaster heavily on Sarah and overlook Chuck’s part. I think it’s shared equally. I hate how far both of them went. It makes both of them look bad.

        As for Sarah falling for people she works with, as well as all other s3 Sarah malfunctions, I think they’ve all been put to rest this season.

        S3 was sooo last year. I’m into s4 now. It’s GENIUS after all. 🙂

      • kg says:

        Thinkling I don’t see how it could, though. You remember her answer. “No, not anymore.”

        I don’t hold it against her, however. Both of these kids made mistakes. Sarah had mentioned to Chuck that he could have anything and anybody he wanted more than once. He never fully stepped up until middle of season three. And Jason intimated how easily Sarah could have had Chuck.

        I’d like to think of myself as a play-it-out kind of person. It played out. Eventually, very, very well. Each has been hurt some in the process, but each member of the couple appears stronger for it and each seems to have forgiven the other for several things.

        Morgan has noted that these two are terrible communicators, but very strong at making up.

      • Anon says:

        “The date given for the off the grid day puts it right after Final Exam.”

        Really? Good eye for details.

        And Shaw “pimped her out” how?

        I though it was in American Hero?

      • kg says:

        Casey states that Sarah and Shaw went off grid on March 22. That happens to be the same date that Final Exam ran.

        Sarah admits to spending that entire day with Shaw in his penthouse loft. American Hero ran 3/29 and Other Guy ran 4/5.

        TPTB has not always been consistent with its history and timelines, but this is pretty tight.

        I wish she hadn’t had sex with Shaw, but it appears clearly she did. The signs point to it, except yes it wasn’t shown on screen.

        Like we’ve said, Chuck hasn’t been completely innocent. Sarah was messed up and vulnerable. She felt guilty because she believed she was responsible for changing Chuck and pushing him into the spy realm.

      • JC says:

        I feel like Michael Corleone when it comes to S3.


        It seems to me that people put the blame on Sarah for S3 for two reasons. The first was she lost complete faith and trust in him. Compare that to Chuck who suffered just as much, yet he never wavered about her. Two, they never went far enough in showing Chuck changing. The Manoosh comparsion was complete BS and most of things she complained about. Chuck did in the previous seasons and after they were together. So we kept hearing about him changing but never really saw it.


        The whole fake date/ Red Test. Shaw clearly told Sarah he was using her because of Chuck’s feelings. That Chuck would do it, if she told him. He pimped her out to get the mission done.

      • atcdave says:

        I agree almost completely with JC’s analysis on this, and certainly the most perplexing and infuriating part of it all is how Sarah turned to Shaw after he USED her to complete the destruction of Chuck. Now all that said, Thinkling is completely right we never had empirical proof of Sarah having sex with Shaw. We have VERY strong circumstantial evidence, namely the day off the grid at his apartment and papaB’s unrefuted assumption she had, but none of this is proof. I’m sure that is exactly where it will remain; TPTB are unlikely to ever revisit the topic, and they clearly meant for us to assume they had done the deed without subjecting us to the horror show.

        I would also say many of us were thoroughly POed at Chuck for his behavior with Hannah too. Neither character gets a pass in my book, they both behaved dreadfully in S3. I don’t particularly care what the reasons or “growth issues” were supposed to be; they failed to entertain me for most of the season because two characters I previously liked acted like total slime balls for almost the entire season. Lots of people do stupid things in life; I prefer when TV characters are inspiring and lovable, but emotionally I’m past S3 now. They’ve made amends for most of the idiocy they subjected us to last season, so I’m ready to just have a good time again.

      • thinkling says:

        I can agree with all of that, Dave.

        On with s4. To s5 and beyond 🙂

      • Anon says:

        “The whole fake date/ Red Test. Shaw clearly told Sarah he was using her because of Chuck’s feelings. That Chuck would do it, if she told him. He pimped her out to get the mission done.”

        Hm,don’t really remember that part well.Did he really tell her that?

        But i do remember Sarah telling him “it was my fault” and something about not loving Chuck anymore.

        Then why the hell Shaw was in Sarah’s room? I don’t particularly care to watch 3×11 again but it doesn’t make sense.

        I would like Sarah more if she kicked Shaw out after that scene 🙂

        I remember Fedak talking about shippers killing him if he stretched the plot too far.

        Well shippers wouldn’t kill him,but the show would be dead for sure.


      • atcdave says:

        Shaw did specifically say Chuck would obey the order if it came from Sarah, so JC is basically correct.

        I remember Fedak’s comments well about dragging it out too long. The thing is, he was completely wrong, there was no such thing as “too long”. The story was doomed from 3.01; it was a wrong turn from the start, and every episode prior to 3.13 was simply heading further the wrong way.

      • timlay says:

        LOL talk about not letting it GO !! LOL

        I do not disagree with any of you on that it was a mess hopefully they have learned and do not do something stupid.

        My worst case scenario is that the team is further seperated as we have already suggested I do hope they have not been as stupid to do something like OD suggests and have chuck or sarah further kidnapped. Its bene done and we have had 3 episodes with the team apart. They need to end on a high there is over 7 weeks break this could be as bad as the chuckacoplaypse of 3.7 except we have a dropping viewership that is starting from a low level.

      • atcdave says:

        I think (?!) they learned their lessons Timlay. They haven’t missed a step yet this season, so I don’t see them ending the episode on such a down note. Even when I’ve been wrong or not liked the write-up this season I’ve been thrilled with the episode; so by that admittedly flawed reasoning, I stand by my guess, “Chuck and Sarah together and happy about it” at the end of the episode.

      • alladinsgenie4u says:

        I agree with Dave. A cliffhanger (if any) will deal with Volkoff/Mama B.


        Chuck looking at the laptop – about to be cured of his Internet Malfunction.

      • Anon says:

        To be fair,Sarah tried to convince Chuck not to kill the mole.

        However her other actions don’t speak well for her.

      • atcdave says:

        You are right Anon; but yeah specifically, she should have been clear she didn’t want him to do the job (its not like Sarah hasn’t broken professional protocols for Chuck before), and of course turning to Shaw is the single most mind numbingly stupid moment of the series to date.

      • JC says:

        And there’s the fact that Chuck should have killed the mole to save his own life.

        So I have to disagree with Dave just a bit, nobody bringing up the fact that the mole was going for his gun is the single most mind numbingly stupid moment in the series.

      • thinkling says:

        Wait a minute JC. Are you saying So stupid. In a season filled with stupid moments, comes one moment so mind numbingly stupid … 🙂

      • JC says:

        It was so stupid that I almost quit watching the show over it. Am Hero was terrible enough but when I realized that Chuck or Casey weren’t going to point that fact out to Sarah my limit had been reached with the show.

      • patty says:

        I don’t think Chuck saw the gun being pulled.

  27. Robert H says:

    Well kg I never thought that we would ever agree
    about anything but in your remarks above about
    “Chuck touching Sarah with out touching her” I think you are absolutely dead on when you look at their relationship over the long haul. I suppose
    one could also say he made love to her mind as well as her heart, the ultimate seduction, simply and only for its complete, open sincerity, not to mention its innocence. An indirect approach to her
    heart,mind, and quite possibly her soul. As you pointed out so well above, none of his competitors
    could even come close in this area. It’s something
    they will never know or care about although Cole did pay tribute with his remark about who ever would have known he would lose the girl to Chuck Bartowski. He also saw Sarah’s uniqueness in
    recognizing the special qualities in Chuck that drew
    her to him, although it took Sarah a long time to
    come to terms with it and embrace it. She finally
    did so in a full, complete committment to Chuck in
    Episode 9 Season 4.

    Once again your observation was right on, thanks.

    • kg says:

      Yeah, even though the show is titled Chuck, I couldn’t really find anything wrong with Cole. I liked the guy and I think his character genuinely liked Chuck.

      One could easily see why Sarah liked Cole and at the very least briefly considered running off with him.

      • thinkling says:

        There was a lot to admire about him. He was a great spy — one of the good guys. I do think he liked and respected Chuck. And he certainly exhibited loyalty to TeamB. He was likable and would have been appealing, were it not for the muffin remark and the lines he fed Sarah … didn’t like that about him. Maybe there was a filament of sincerity, but not enough for him to come close to deserving Sarah. 😉

      • atcdave says:

        He pressed Sarah pretty hard when he thought she was available, and backed off when he found she wasn’t. So while Beefcake will never be a favorite episode of mine, Lethal Weapon is; and somehow I don’t blame Cole for anything.

      • Anon says:

        Well,i’d prefer it if Sarah kissed Bryce instead 🙂

  28. Robert H says:

    Once again I tend to agree with you about the Sarah/Shaw thing. Your friend may be right and I hope he is, (like you I am a great fan of Sarah’s and have been from the start) but I think Casey had
    her dead to rights when he questioned her off grid
    activities with Shaw. You could see Sarah getting
    very uncomfortable at that point and that she was trying to change the focal point of the questioning
    or trying to completely ignore it. One could also see Chuck wasn’t too happy with her either although
    he was gallantly trying to defend her but deep down
    instinctively Chuck knew the truth-she was having a sexual relationship with Shaw. We’ll never
    really know for sure because of the Schwedak interruption at this point (another maddening thing
    about the insanity of Season 3) but maybe it’s just
    as well. All that we’ll ever really have is reasonable inference which could, I suppose, be stretched to interpretation either way-emotional
    confusion on Sarah’s part or an actual sexual liasion with Shaw. Idealistically as your friend
    thinks I would like to think she was confused and
    waited for Chuck. Realistically she probably slept
    with Shaw in the same way she slept with Bryce.

    It would be interesting to see if this is ever addressed between them, especially if Shaw ever
    resurfaces again on the show. Given the the delicate
    state of the ratings at this time I think this is
    unlikely. If they are smart they’ll avoid any direct
    ot indirect mention of Season 3 in any way.

    Given Sarah’s full committment to Chuck in Episode 9 Season 4 does it really matter now anyway?

    However it was very interesting to see Sarah squirm
    and lose her poise in that scene with Casey. An
    absolute shame it was interrupted.

    What do you think about it and how do you think it will impact their realtionship in the long run?

    • kg says:

      Yes, as you said, now it is virtually irrelevant. Both Chuck and Sarah have seemingly forgiven one another for past mistakes and let the pain and inconsistencies of season three go. As you intimated in another post, the fans should let go as well.

      While they were apart, I too didn’t like it, but it didn’t destroy them and perhaps made them stronger and appreciate one another that much more. They rediscovered the best part of themselves and found each other again. For good I think. Their relationship for the long run is very good. Solidly good.

      What more would either one of them need from the other?

      • odysszeuss says:

        OK KG! But why does Sarah in Season 3 – Episode ?? did the thing, you know, the thing…

        …just kidding 😉

        You have a friend in private, you know he can not let go? You can nothing do about that…
        But a Platform like this Blog is something good you kind of can mourn the loss. And you always will find someone who suffers with you, who comforts you and who fights with you about your opinion. That’s a good thing for the community… At least we are talking about fictional characters and we all watch #Chuck for our amusement/entertainment, sort of…

      • Anon says:

        It’s not about Chuck and Sarah forgiving one another.
        It’s more about people caring about the characters or characters being likable.

        Chuck and Sarah in season 3 were failures in that regard.

        Sarah was already not liked for not choosing “Chuck the spy” over Shaw or even giving Shaw a chance.

        The latter parts of s3,really did not make her look good.

        Seeing how many people were pissed of at Chuck for even flirting Hannah,Sham was a disaster for Sarah.

  29. Robert H says:

    Armysfc, you make some good points that maybe I didn’t consider. Maybe it depends somewhat on what
    perspective you look at it from. We all think and evaluate differently. Nothing can be done about that
    which is probably a good thing. We learn and grow
    with our interactions with other people which is why
    I like this website. People look at things differently.

    About people being afraid of angst what can I say really except I think a certain amount of it, as long as there is a purpose for it in the story telling is not necessarily bad, as long as it’s kept
    under control and presented for a specific purpose.
    I think there is “good” and “bad” agnst.

    What caused the blowup last year was the separation
    of the Chuck/Sarah characters with the introduction
    of the PLI’s after most of the fan base made clear
    before Season 3 production started they did not want,
    especially after they seemed to come together at the
    end of Season 2. The fact that this was done after so much effort was made to save the show by the fans, simply infuriated people, especially after the
    infamous Episode 7 of Season 3 where the separation
    was made official. The outpouring of internet rage
    was so bad the producers had to give an emergency interview to calm the storm but by that point it was too little, too late. The damage had been done,
    the following episodes were already shot, and the
    ratings began their long slow slide. The fan base was fractured and has never recovered.

    This year its different. Chuck/sarah are together
    and much of the orginal charm of the show has been restored. The producers, to their credit, have tried
    to make amends. Is the show perfect? No of course not, but it is much better than last year. Are chuck/Sarah going to have problems in their relationship? Yes, they are as any couple would.

    If the extreme shippers want the show to be all about Chuck/Sarah to the exclusion of all the other
    characters and have a 1950’s Ozzie and Harriet relationship where nothing ever goes wrong with honey dripping all over the place, they’re not going to get it, nor should they. I say this being
    a moderate shipper myself. The chuck/sarah relationship drives the show and the greatest error
    the producers made in Season 3 was refusing to recognize that little fact and arrogantly ignoring
    the fan base that did. They paid a terrible price
    for doing it and they still are. On the the other
    hand to be fair to them they did make the necessary
    changes to fix things and they should be given credit for that.

    Given all of that I think the people who left should
    give the show another chance. That is up to them of course but I don’t really buy into the fear thing. If they don’t like what they see well obviously they
    will watch something else.

    Still I think you make some good points that are well worth considering. I just hope that a lot of
    viewers who left at least give the show a decent chance again by watching more than just one or two
    episodes, and giving the producers the benefit of
    the doubt as long as they are making a good,consistent effort to avoid the major errors of
    Season 3. So far, at least in my opinion they have
    but they need to keep on doing it. Without more viewer support the prospects for a 5th season look
    very dim. Is that what people really want?

    • timlay says:

      No robert i do want the show to fail, but like i said right now the show i take week to week. I will see how this episode ends to see if i will bother watching the show after the return.

      Purely anecodatal some friends i know who watched it have just moved on they neither care either way. It just simply not of interest to them anymore which is why they have not returned.

      The last 3 episodes as people say have seen the team apart if they do seperate them even more episodes then really i doudt i will bother watching it when it returns. I want to see them as a spy couple right now we have the same old story that was done previously chuck is no longer the intersect, seperating the team the show is less when the team is seperated.

  30. thinkling says:

    One recent question that came to mind … Could the governor be conflicting with the Intersect???

    Still think whatever MamaB did was more not less … my bet is it is now permanent and unremovable.

    • Tamara Burks says:

      Good theory. Plus it fits in with her saying your father didn’t want you to see this. He wouldn’t want an unremovable Intersect in his son. He’s still keeping the Governer on because of the potential Damages from flashing and since he’s still having half flashes and he has no way to know if the Intersect is causing damage even when it’s not working .

      Not to mention it’s a nice watch and a bit of his father’s legacy which after Mama B destroyed the lair he would hold onto even more tightly.

  31. OldDarth says:

    Speccing Volkoff takes Sarah hostage which is the trigger that has Chuck and Ellie come clean on everything. Sarah’s abduction is what convinces Ellie to help Chuck reactivate the Intersect.

    Cliffhanger for the next 7 weeks? 😮

    • timlay says:

      That would be a bad move on the shows part the team and chuck and sarah have been apart for the last 3 episodes the viewing figures are dropped. I doudt people will like that sort of cliffhanger for 7 weeks it would be enough for me to just walk away and give up.

    • armySFC says:

      @ OldDarth while i can see it as the plot to the episode it needs to be wrapped up by the end. i can’t speak for anyone else. if it ends they way you said i’m done. your way does clear up some of the loose ends but creates a bigger one. i don’t think the show can risk that at this point in time. i know it can’t for me.

    • atcdave says:

      OD, I’ll bet you’re wrong. Hey I know my own batting average has been pretty lousy this season, but I’ve been pleased with almost everything they’ve done. I probably wouldn’t like a cliffhanger of that sort, so I’m guessing they won’t do that.

      I stand by; Chuck and Sarah together and happy about it. Any cliffy will be Frost/Volkoff related.

    • jason says:

      OD / army / dave – I spec’d the same thing somewhere on this blog, i.e. volkov kidnap sarah which would logically explain why ellie would help chuck intersect … but since sarah and chuck in promo’s are essential to sell the show during the 60 day break, I hope I am not right about the kidnapping.

      Whatever they do at the end of 4×10 and during the break, it will be the last best hope for season 5, I don’t know what the best strategy is or even if there is one, in any case, I hope they get it right.

      one other thing, sarah’s kidnapping in 4×10 would mean sarah’s been kidnapped twice and chuck one in the past 17 episodes, a little too repetitive I would have to think, esp given when written only 3 episodes remained in the whole series – would they really waste one complete episode 4×11 – on another rescue????

      • timlay says:

        what is worrying is josh schwarts recent tweet

        talks about it being a black friday of holiday themed eps

        that does not sound good

        Maybe i will not bother watching tonight and read the reactions

      • atcdave says:

        We already know the “B” plot for tonight is Black Friday themed. In general, I’m neither excited nor upset by talk of a shopping themed episode!

      • thinkling says:

        Gotta love those “Chuck” Thanksgiving traditions: Bartowski family dinner, turkey, sweet potatoes with marshmallows, and … PINEAPPLE! 😛

    • thinkling says:

      I’m with Dave. Sarah capture ain’t gonna happen. My CG pesos are on the Frost/Volkoff cliffy … happy C/S and TeamB.

      Not only do I not want that kind of cliffy for 7 weeks, I think it would be really dumb after the episodes we’ve had. FOD had Chuck off on a dangerous mission and Sarah beside herself. Then Phase 3 was the television rescue of the millennium.

      A Sarah kidnapped cliffy would repeat all the same emotions and story we’ve just gone through … only worse b/c it’s round 2. Talk about Leftovers! It would either be emotionally exhausting or boring, depending on the individual. Plus there’s no way they can top Phase 3, no matter what’s in the new Intersect.

      • timlay says:

        i agree it would thinkling i hope they do not go there.

        a better cliff hanger would be chuck shoots mom … he does say i do not trust you

      • thinkling says:

        @Timlay: Well, I agree that would be better than Sarah captured, but whoa. Besides, we took a straw vote and matricide lost by a narrow margin. 😉 jk. I assume you don’t mean a kill shot.

        That’s not too far off from my suggestion above that Sarah shoots MEB, to protect her or save her.

      • timlay says:

        thinkling Ah right i see sorry did not see that. yeah it could be interesting.

      • thinkling says:

        Well, Timlay, I sort of doubt mom gets shot, but it’s fun to speculate. Sarah sure looks like she means business, and the hug looks pretty tight; so something is going down.

  32. OldDarth says:

    Agree with Jason. Sarah being taken hostage would be very motivating for Chuck to reactivate the Intersect.

    • timlay says:

      But likely to be bad for the show. The reaction is likely going to drive the show into more loss of viewers. If it happens i can gaurantee i will stop watching for good.

      • OldDarth says:

        Sorry timlay but your reaction puzzles.

        Why such a drastic reaction. You know Sarah will return in short order.

        Consistently puzzled by how little dramatic manuveuring room shows are given.

        Plus do not understand why such a move, if it even happens, would drive viewers away. The reverse seems more likely.

      • timlay says:

        i doudt it od straw poll here among people all have said its not a great move. This has been done before write something better as i said i am now on a week by week basis if its something i do not like further keeping the leads apart them i am finished. Your “friends” may like it but the viewing figures speak for themselves they kept the leads seperated from mission throughout most of season 3 and the show lost 2.7 mill viewers. Last 3 weeks they kept the leads apart and lost viewers lowest ever it cannot be all DWTS.

    • atcdave says:

      It would work if it was all contained in the single episode. You know Volkoff has everyone hostage while Frost is alone with Chuck and Ellie; Frost and Ellie unblock the Intersect so Chuck can stage a rescue. That doesn’t seem to fit with promos we’ve seen, but anything”s possible.

      Ending with Chuck and Sarah apart would be a very bad idea for fan enthusiasm and hiatus promotion. I would like to be able to show Leftovers to family at Christmas, but with a down cliffy like that, I likely wouldn’t bother (I won’t say absolutely, who’d have guessed I’d like Sarah arresting mom or anything about “First Fight” as much as I did! But a fun/happy episode is much better Christmas viewing).

      • timlay says:

        Yes thats my basic thoughts ok within the episode if they leave it like that its not a good sign. Also it will leave people with a bad taste that will linger for too long with no resolution. Besides its just been done … with chuck and they have been apart now for 3 episodes.

      • OldDarth says:

        Good drama does not need to have happy endings. My friends would be inclined to watch another episode if this one leaves unresolved hooks over the hiatus.

      • jason says:

        OD – the problem is chuck has one unresolved hook it plays over and over and over – chuck and sarah seperated – they have quit even trying to come up with new reasons, this season they seem to have recylced them all – boring adnauseum – what is needed is a seize the day moment in this show – we don’t need the 15th kidnapping of chuck or sarah – we need to move forward with the story – right now the show has two of the best actors it will ever get in dalton and hamilton – let them act – I want the show to give me something new tonight, something different, something great, not yet another trip to the schedak shell game of CS separation reruns

      • timlay says:

        exactly jason if sarah does get kidnapped then really its the moment the show just committed suicide

      • atcdave says:

        OD, I’m pretty sure your friends are in the minority. It is great for them if they enjoy cliffhangers, but I’m pretty sure most viewers see it as an overused cliche. We live busy lives, TV is not the most important thing going on, and we resent the “obligation” to stay engaged with a story of a prolonged break.

        And just for the record, I’m really not interested in good drama, I require a happy ending or I quit (okay, Chuck has me hooked that would never happen; on most other shows I watch I am a casual viewer, and cliffhangers tick me off).

        It occurs to me these are really two separate issues. Serialized story telling with cliffhangers, and good drama are generally two completely different things. But I don’t really care for either; I watch to have a good time and be entertained. I like long and involved tales (I mean you have to go with the extended cut of LoTR or what’s the point?), but I prefer to have things wrapped up when I take a break (first time I read LoTR took four days, I consider that fairly long for a trilogy, but it took some time for me to get into Fellowship of the Ring).

        This is actually something Chuck has done an extraordinary job with. They wrap stories for major breaks while leaving hooks for what comes next. The only beef I’ve had was with Santa Claus which ended on a down note that didn’t even ring true to me (we won’t discuss S3). I am posting this after the fact on 4.10, so let me say; excellent place to take a break.

    • JC says:

      Wouldn’t Chuck being able to flash while Sarah is in danger conflict with what happened in Other Guy?

      And any variation of Chuck’s emotions being his spinach or kryptonite is kinda played out at this point. I’d much rather it to be a technical issue.

      • thinkling says:

        Agreed JC. Besides, I don’t remember any emotion-induced flash malfunctions since Honeymooners. That whole line of reasoning was, IMO, a wild goose chase, from the get go.

        It’s a technical thing.

      • OldDarth says:

        Yes it seems like a technical issue this time.

        One that can only be solved by Ellie.

        So a total admission of all things between Ellie and Chuck would be the result. Great motivator if Sarah is in harm.

  33. herder says:

    So, do we get a promo at the end of this episode and if so, is it of the next episode, vs The Balcony or is it of the next few episodes. So far aside from the titles and one set of unauthorized pictures we have nothing about what the new year will bring.

    • jason says:

      I would guess we will not – what do you think?

    • alladinsgenie4u says:

      I do hope we get a promo – an extended one encompassing 4×11,12 and 13 (if it’s ready) would be awesome. Should give us a lot to speculate about during the hiatus.

      As for tonight – I hope the Intersect is back to full functionality by the end.

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