Second Guessing

Twitter and the Single Nerd

I got into a marvellous twitter discussion (from the dictionary: Oxymoron noun \ˌäk-sē-ˈmȯr-ˌän\ – see “Twitter Discussion”) about how Chuck will propose to Sarah. We all know it’s a matter of time, after all.

Suggestions for Chuck’s proposal so far:

  • The Fountain
  • Prague or Paris
  • In a Chinese restaurant over Sizzling Shrimp (with Josh Schwartz and Chris Fedak at the next table, taking notes and maybe getting water spilled on their laps)
  • While on a mission and under fire from bad-guys (the completely spontaneous option!)
  • On the Buy More roof-top, (optionally while under surveillance from Casey)
  • Our own Faith wants to see Chuck on one knee on a Paris train with flower petals everywhere!

We can all take our best guess at what might transpire, safe in the knowledge that whatever we come up with will be better than Morgan’s suggestion. I only wonder how long Chuck will second-guess himself about finding the right time and the right place.

Almost Like Heaven

Heh! The location is almost irrelevant, isn’t it? It’s more about Chuck and his frame of mind. For myself, I wouldn’t want to seem him flustered, in the middle of a gun-fight using Chuck-Fu skills and realizing that he may not survive (“So better ask NOW!”, he thinks, as bullets fly overhead). No, that’s a little too un-planned. I wouldn’t want him to wait for the next romantic spy-mission of a lifetime either, when absolutely everything is perfect and Sarah’s eyes are begging. Nope. That’ll take too long and demand too much perfection.

For all his reputation as a nerd, Chuck is seldom clumsy. Really. Remember when he asked Sarah out on a date? She demurred, but Chuck wasn’t at all afraid to make his case and make it well!

Sarah: Chuck…(ahem) I’m still a CIA agent, and there are a hundred reasons why I shouldn’t do this.
Chuck: What do you have to lose? In a week you’re going to be undercover in some place like Jakarta, in a knife fight with some evil doer. And in that exact moment, you’re gonna wish that you would have spent one last night of fun with me.

That’s pretty good, for someone who’s supposed to be clumsy and insecure.

Chuck has never been a fool, either. He’s never been afraid to face up to the reality of the situation, hard as that may be sometimes.

Sarah: Chuck –
Chuck: Please. Let me just finish. Sarah, I’m not gonna move in with you. Because, I can’t. And you know why I can’t. I’m crazy about you, and I’ve always been. But, having a fake relationship, that’s one thing. But living together is… I mean, every day, being around each other and – and that’s why I can’t do it. And I hope you understand.
Sarah: I do.

Chuck’s not done. He sounds so very resigned, but he’s far from defeated.

Chuck: Thank you. [Chuck gets up to limp away.] Oh, and, uh, just so you know… I am gonna get this thing out of my head one day. I will. And when I do, I’m gonna live the life that I want with the girl that I love. Because I’m not gonna let this thing rob me of that. I won’t.

After a moment of thought, Sarah smiled and we quietly cheered him on because we believed him. Chuck needs no battle-plan and he needs no tropical island or European Estate ambiance. He doesn’t need to make up for the mis-steps of the past; he just needs to be that forthright. Chuck doesn’t ever need to second guess himself.

The title of this post is not Chuck vs. The Proposal because there’s nothing verses about it. Everything and everyone is on his side.

– joe

About joe

In my life I've been a professor, martial artist, rock 'n roller, rocket scientist, lover, poet and brain surgeon. I'm lying about the brain surgery.
This entry was posted in Fan Base, Inside Chuck, Inside Sarah, Season 4. Bookmark the permalink.

111 Responses to Second Guessing

  1. alladinsgenie4u says:

    Chuck may be a nerd but he is a true romantic at heart. If we give a cursory glance at his intended proposal plan (4×09) – he needs no lessons on how to make it special.

    Joe, you have covered a lot of obvious and some not so obvious scenarios. Here are some of my guesses

    1. At the hospital after Baby Awesomette is born.
    2.At the Nerd Herd desk after closing time.
    3.At the restaurant where they went on their first date (Pilot).
    4.An elaborate plan that somehow gets Casey involved – despite his reluctance.
    5.Flash faking on a pre-planned and already setup location and then leading Sarah to it. (cliche)

  2. Jen says:

    Aw Joe, loved your closing line. Wish i could stay and comment some more, but i’ve too much work to finish and i gotta get outta here.
    I, for one, would love to see something simple, no grand gesture, just Chuck & Sarah, in a private moment, not anyone else around them, hearfelt words. I almost can’t wait to see the look on Sarah’s face, becuase even though we know she’s waiting for that moment, she will still be surprised, and we will see Yvonne do an amazing job at showing us how Sarah feels at that very exact moment.
    Alright kids, i gotta run!
    Hope you are all doing great!!!!!!!!

    • alladinsgenie4u says:

      I almost can’t wait to see the look on Sarah’s face.

      Same here. Yvonne’s awesome acting will make that scene all the more special. I cant wait to see pure happiness on Sarah’s face. It’s a joy to watch.

    • joe says:

      Jen, thanks for being one of the inspirations for this post! It was fun.

      And @Genie, I agree! I can’t wait to see how Yvonne Strahovski plays it. The first 20 times or so that I watch I’ll just let it sink in. Maybe after that I’ll be able to study how the magic is actually done! 😉

  3. atcdave says:

    My guess is we’ll see some form of planned event. In Leftovers Chuck did tell Morgan he was working on a plan that Morgan would no longer be privy to. I like the sound of that on both counts; a planned event between Chuck and Sarah. Not to say Morgan might not be involved as a rickshaw runner or some such silliness. Hopefully we’ll start seeing previous for the rest of the season soon, might be funny to run a half dozen clips where something might be happening. It’s great to have something purely fun to guess about.

  4. Faith says:

    “Our own Faith wants to see Chuck on one knee on a Paris train with flower petals everywhere!”

    Not just any train, or any compartment, but the same train, the same compartment where he put the fake ring on her and where while embraced by him she dreamed a little when looking at the mirror.

    Details matter 😉

    Here are a couple more:
    – I think I spec’d this before though…in bed, waking up in the morning because he just can’t imagine not doing that for the rest of his life
    – Surprise birthday party for her with what is now “her family” and will henceforth be…take her aside, go to their room and propose then. This is special because as far as we know no one knows when her birthday is, so it requires some sleuthing on his part and a surprise to boot.
    – In Castle, hand her his spy will and inside is the ring
    – Call her up to meet him at the buy more, in the aisle where he gave her his Mom’s charm bracelet and propose there
    – Same mexican restaurant where they had their first, first date (my least fav because I think restaurants are kind of…common)
    – Beach in Malibu (still) but coming off a yacht the night before for a party with their friends and family, walk off into the sand…sunset…proposal.
    – Elaborate mission set up by Chuck that ends with her meeting him where he’s supposed to propose…location? Prague train station, let’s turn that awful and painful memory into one of joy and hope. Chuck comes in with a tank!

    Did I say a couple? I meant several…I’ve been saving these up!

    • jason says:

      wow – most of those are so cool – I would not know which one to pick – a tank – wow – the buymore isle where he gave her the charm bracelet – prague train station – yikes – well done – any spec on the when from you????

      • Faith says:

        Sooner than the finale I think, Jason. I just don’t think you can have a storyline on steroids (usually the case with our finales) and have this too. The proposal will most likely be its own stand alone episode with some general arc information within it.

        I’m thinking honeymooner-esque so 414 or colonel-esque 423.

    • alladinsgenie4u says:

      Faith – Love your “attention to detail” scenario. It enhances the moment. Personally speaking, 4×23 is too long a wait – I am still banking on a much earlier proposal.

    • joe says:

      Details matter! I like that!

    • thinkling says:

      I love the birthday idea. First his finding out about it would be great, only the birthday, though, no other details, b/c he “doesn’t need to know.”

      He could wrap the ring in the birthday box, like a normal present would come in. Total surprise. This would have to take place at the fountain. After that they can have a big Bartowski bash.

    • Ernie Davis says:

      Faith, I like the on the train scenario. As a bonus they have the same porter, and three days of room service again. Extra bonus for “I see the Honeymoon isn’t over yet” or some such comment.

      Go for the trifecta and start season 5 with them on their honeymoon… Yep, same car, same compartment, same porter and another three days of room service. By now they’re on a first name basis and sending Christmas cards.

    • Faith says:

      Ok one more…in the shower.

      Hey! It’s not pervy…it’s an homage to “my eyes!” LMAO.

      • atcdave says:

        So are you wanting the show moved to HBO?

      • alladinsgenie4u says:

        Dave, be honest now that C/S are together wouldn’t we all love a move to HBO? 😉 LOL.

      • JC says:

        That would make any future Carina episodes very interesting.

      • alladinsgenie4u says:

        @JC – Speaking of Carina, I am still holding out hope for her appearance in the back 11.

      • atcdave says:

        Even on NBC Carina pushes some limits…

        But I sure would be happy to see her return. I think she’d have A LOT of fun teasing the domesticated Sarah Walker.

      • joe says:

        @Faith. Okay, HBO style. C&S in the shower with a ring and –
        Morgan walks in??? “MY EYES! MY EYES!!!”


      • Ernie Davis says:

        Joe, knowing Morgan he’d get video. For them of course, so they’d have the moment preserved forever…

      • atcdave says:

        So Ernie this sort of brings up a fun question. Maybe we should list the top ten ways/reasons for Sarah to kill Morgan. Actually that could go way past ten…

      • Faith says:

        LOL. Not HBO…but let’s just say they already get away with a lot on Chuck 😉

        In all seriousness though I do like that Chuck caters to the household, I would never change that, but pushing the button as it relates to Chuck and Sarah wouldn’t hurt in that sense. I think I’ve brought this up before lol. Though I was half kidding on the shower proposal 😉

        Nah, Dave, Sarah and Morgan are now BFF. Morgan helped her bring Chuck back, that’s pretty huge in her book.

        One more for the road…”Beckman” sent them on a mission involving tunnels (Casey had to stay behind with Morgan), maze like (think Fat lady) and they drop into a room, the room? Her old apartment from S1, 2, and 3. Again full of flower petals, Chuck proposes where a lot of C/S stuff also took place.

  5. jason says:

    I’m hoping for no leak to the audience, so when chuck asks sarah – we won’t know it is coming until he pops the ? – funny about TPTB – I think they will nail this one better than I could spec it out

    I still struggle to place a date on the proposal, I used to think TPTB will push the date out until 4×24, but I now am thinking sometime in the next couple of eps – I don’t see a real logical ep other than 4×11’s balcony – unless roan is part of the proposal shake-down of sarah and the audience – 12 is in prison, 13 is sure to be volkov ad naseum, 14 is roan seduction bs, 15 is charlie’s angels?

    • atcdave says:

      I hadn’t thought about the possibility of Roan being involved. Could be, and 4.14 and 4.15 look to be a couple of lighter episodes. That might be the place for it.

      Still, my money is on Balconey; followed by a couple of meatier episodes for the original finale.

  6. Rick Holy says:

    So many good possibilities. My preference would be for “the fountain.” It was the site where CHUCK – in order to protect Sarah – told her that they could NEVER have a future together. It would be very “apprapro” (spelling??) for it to happen there. But I wouldn’t be disappointed even if it happened in the BuyMore, where they first met. Remember, Sarah has seen all the “glamorous places” all over the world. She doesn’t need anything “over-glamorized.” Simple and sweet should be the “magic” that Chuck thinks he needs to find for “the big moment.”

    • atcdave says:

      Yeah Rick, ultimately the setting doesn’t really matter; but I’m pretty sure this is something they will do in epic fashion. Should be a lot of fun.

  7. herder says:

    This is sort of like a game of Clue; where, when and how. In the courtyard, on Valentine’s day, with his mother’s ring. Or in the bedroom, on Sarah’s birthday, with the ring from Suburbs, or on the train, on their anniversary with the curtain ring.

    Truth is the where, when and how are all gilding to the basic question, why. Because he can’t imagine a life without her now and she is intrinsic to who he is. It will be his expression of why that makes the proposal magic, not the other things.

    • joe says:

      Genie is right, Herder. This is eloquent, as are so many of the comments tonight!

      Then again, eloquent is par for the course for this group. 🙂

      There’s one more side, too, and that is Sarah’s response. We’ve come to expect much expressiveness, but few words from her. It would not surprise me in the least if Sarah Walker surprised us this time.

      She is no longer “bad with relationships,” like she once told Chuck.

    • Faith says:

      Great point, it’s not the when or the what (though fun!)…it’s what he says and how he phrases it.

      This from a guy that delivered the best. Break. Up. Speech. In. History…needless to say I’m expecting a lot.

    • atcdave says:

      Great comment Herder, I love it.

      The “bad with relationships” bit is kind of funny now; she’s been pretty extraordinary for most of the last 16 episodes.

  8. alladinsgenie4u says:

    Because he can’t imagine a life without her now and she is intrinsic to who he is. It will be his expression of why that makes the proposal magic, not the other things.

    Quite eloquent for a post so early into the night. 😉
    I love the way you describe how Chuck feels about Sarah.

  9. joe says:

    Wanna laugh, everybody? After my tweets this afternoon about weddings and diamond rings, I’m getting twitter-spam from – you guessed it, wedding planners and jewellery stores.

    Go figure! I love the 21st century!

  10. First Timer says:

    If the showrunners do it right, if they respect the characters as much as we love the characters, it will be simple, clean, unexpected and unadorned. I do believe that is what they will try for. I do believe that’s why they are doing the long build-up with the proposal “plan.” They are getting all of the phony, TV-sitcom silliness out of the way. They are showing you all the gimmicks IN ADVANCE so they don’t have to use them when the moment comes.

    Think about it: Why do we love the bracelet moment in Santa Claus?

    Because it IS something regular guy Chuck would do. And it IS something Sarah, despire her better “spy” judgment, can’t help but want to be a part of. It is a breathtakingly honest moment from Chuck and a stunning breakthrough moment for Sarah.

    If the showrunners give us a proposal anything like that simple and insanely touching moment, they’ll have hit a creative home run.

    • joe says:

      They are getting all of the phony, TV-sitcom silliness out of the way.

      Well said, FT! And I can’t agree with you more.

    • Faith says:

      Actually the bracelet scene is typical TV antics, but what makes it special is the details behind it…mom’s bracelet, “something you should give to a real girlfriend.”

      Even Chuck breaking up with Sarah in Break up…a tried and true TV and storyline plot point but how it’s done made it so much more.

      • thinkling says:

        And WHY. It’s the why he did it, something they both knew, that made it necessary, special, and bearable.

    • atcdave says:

      Great observation First Timer. I like simple (but Sarah might really like a race car…)

    • thinkling says:

      Spot on, FT. I think that’s exactly why they gave us the proposal plan. Very smart, I think.

      And if they get close to the bracelet moment, it will indeed be a home run, with the bases loaded!

      • jason says:

        smallville did it simple last night, at least considering the potential that a superman has for extreme – I hope it catches sarah by surprise – I have thought maybe the proposal would be delayed for a long time, beginning to get more convinced it is coming very, very soon – although I would have to think somehow that will get promoted? Maybe the 4 eps over xmas will be the start of the engagement runup???

      • atcdave says:

        That’s what I’m thinking Jason. They might even spill the beans ahead of time just for promotion. I hope not, but it seems NBC is ready for extreme measures.

  11. Joseph (can't be Joe) says:

    In a quiet restaurant, Chuck is all nervous (because his palms are sweaty, but he seems to be waiting for something.
    When he finally does ask, he gets handed the ring by Sarah’s dad. It was her her mom’s ring.

    (This assumed mom has passed on, but the idea is nice)

    JS in the Maitre D and CF is the waiter.

  12. Amrit says:

    When I read this article and remember some of those earlier scenes it reminds me what a wonderful actor zach is, I mean I have seen pictures of his previous gals (very gorgeous BTW) and yet he sells it everytime he is with yvonne/sarah that she is the best thing to ever happened to him, every time, every look, every, fleeting glance, the gasp of air the eyes lit up. I really have to give it to Zach for these performances….. I am sure whatever he does, it will all come down to how he looks at her and pulls it off, that is what is most important, not the location, not the way he does it. But a speech and look of “I can’t believe I am the luckiest guy in the world” and it will be like the beginning all over again and that is a scene worthy of chuck folklore!

  13. beti says:

    umm and what about a proposal eating an obama guaba frozen yogurt.. or maybe the cell they share in season 2 when they try to save orion.. or maybe watching tron…

    • joe says:

      And she could burn a few gourmet hot-dogs for him too, Beti, just for old time’s sake. 😉

    • DignityRLI says:

      Thoroughly enjoying the concepts and imagination being displayed…. Would enjoy any of them.
      My two cents… Sometimes the concept that Sarah is the ‘guy’ in the relationship really strikes a chord with me [Chuck talks about feelings, Sarah wants to just get on with things, fix things]. So, Sarah will do the asking, Chuck the crying, and it will be an ‘oh, by the way’ moment, not some dramatic romantic moment. Maybe while vacuuming, doing the dishes, or cleaning guns. Oooh, while texting! I believe it WAS meant for 413, but now I think we will see it before 415, with a wedding alluded to, but not seen, in 424.

      • jason says:

        the timing of it (assuming the engagement happens at all) intrigues me. I still think the most likely will be 4×13, and I think it will be better than the beach in Malibu – somehow. If it isn’t, TPTB should be fired, as on the beach repeating the end of the pilot scene, would have knocked it out of the park with the fans, the scene would have been the #1 shipped scene in the show’s history, which is saying something – so the pressure is on.

  14. Ernie Davis says:

    Well based on what we know of the show, and Chuck, I’d pretty much count on Chuck having an elaborate plan. Which will of course blow up in his face. He will then manage to ad-lib the best proposal ever.

    • PeterOinNJ says:

      Yep – since he’s already tried the fancy, eloquent version of this speech, it will just be time for him to be blunt and honest – and say I love you, Will you marry me? And it will feel so good to finally say it – having had to bottle it up for a long time
      An homage to another great (and often overlooked) moment of Chuck at his best – forthright, honest, open.

    • JC says:

      Yeah that seems likely. So my guess in the courtyard by the fountain.

    • thinkling says:

      I agree. That would be true to form. And that form has delivered some hilarious moments in the past, only to lead to great personal ones between Chuck & Sarah.

  15. joe says:

    I’m not sure where best to put this OT news item, but Chuck TV is reporting that NBC is airing a 3-episode Chuck marathon on Dec. 27.


    • atcdave says:

      Swell, I think that’s my travel home day. I look forward to seeing what episodes they pick though.

      • JC says:

        Anniversary, Aisle of Terror and First Fight. Hopefully they’re saving Phase Three for the Monday before the show returns.

      • atcdave says:

        Oh that’s excellent news, thanks JC. I think this will be the most Chuck reruns they’ve ever shown. Hopefully that means they’ll be promoting it more this time!

      • armySFC says:

        santa clause on the 20th. the other three ALL on the 27th

      • jason says:

        an anniversary of sorts for me as a fan, last christmas, I watched my first chuck ep over the holidays during a chuck marathon – so based on a sample size of one, this marathon business is a great idea, just need a random channel surf to make a hit at a time YS is on screen, and you have a better than 50/50 shot at a new fan – LOL

        I wonder if they will have some new preview / promo work ready for the upcoming season to air at the same time?

      • herder says:

        Four repeats, that is as many as have aired in the last two seasons combined. A good way of keeping up awareness of the show during the Christmas break. Also good episodes, well maybe Aisle of Terror is a bit weak but it does have a lot of exposition and they are three of the four Mama B episodes so far. NBC is showing some faith in the show, a good sign.

      • First Timer says:

        This roadblocking on one night is either absolute desperation on NBC’s part (no other available programming) or it is rolling the dice to see if the show is worth renewing.

        The last time NBC reran Chuck episodes, they drew .9 (First Class and Beard last year) on consecutive weeks. So I have to say desperation on NBC’s part.

        On the other hand, it DID reach out and do a deal with Warner for retransmission rights for Santa Claus for Dec 20, so maybe this is part of NBC’s due-diligence effort to see if they can breathe some late life into the show’s ratings.

        Either way, this isn’t something NBC is doing because the network has a lot of other palatable choices. If the network had any strength in the marketplace at all, Chuck would have been cancelled after Ring two seasons ago.

  16. amyabn says:

    I would love to have the gang go out for dinner to the chinese place from First Date, then they go to see one of Chuck’s friends band at the place they went for their first fake date. Zach knows David Hodges, lead singer for a bunch of bands. I would love to see Chuck get up after being goaded by David, and sing to Sarah. The song (you have to know I’d pick the song!) is here:

    Then he hops off stage and proposes. I”m getting a little misty just thinking about it!

    • amyabn says:

      I should have also said that Sarah wouldn’t expect it which makes it even better.

      • jason says:

        that is as nice a spec as any I have seen, I hope sarah is surprised, I wonder if the fans will be too – or we will know it is coming?

    • joe says:

      Holy cow, this is a great song. Why did I ever think that all the good music was in the past?

      I too love the spec, Amy. But face it, what happens will surprise us all. It’s truly beyond all imagining, not because we can’t do better, but because we all have our own vision.

      • amyabn says:

        Joe, I have to add this song for you too. It is also by Trading Yesterday, of which David Hodges was the lead singer. He has also fronted The Age of Information as well as solo work. Anyway, listen to this next song and imagine the lyrics from both POVs.

      • atcdave says:

        Love the new gravatar Amy, Awesome!

      • joe says:

        You are my life, you are my church, you are my bride.

        Sigh. Wonderful. See them slow-dancing, slowly circling? I do.

        I’m suppressing a little panic – There seems to be a bug in the application I’ve been using to load my iPod – It’s like iTunes for Linux. I can’t load anything now, and I’ll be without music when I run until I can figure out some alternative.

        I have another app. that I think will do the trick, but this one has an on-line book for a users guide. Getting through that will take a while. Grrrr!

        And yup! The Graviton is fantastic! 😉

        Added: For the romantics (and for the romantic in you), here are the lyrics. I can’t let this go without saying that this is the style of guitar playing and singing I’ve done since I was a teen, and for that reason, this song has already gotten to me. Without touching my guitar, I can tell you the key and fingering and strumming; after hearing it twice, I can play it. I can tell you that I’ll probably have the words memorized by tomorrow.

        Thanks, Amy.

      • amyabn says:

        Glad you guys like it. Thinkling created this gravatar for me, and Faith did a couple others, so you may see some variety. I find Zach completely adorable but I thought I should find something that fits me better!

    • Jen says:

      If they were to ever use Zac’s singing ability, the proposal would be a great chance! I loved the song Amy, it’s beautiful, and again.. Seeign Sarah’s face as Chuck sinfs to her would be incredible!

      • Gringo Chuck Fan says:

        I was thinking the same thing… only Chuck sings as a last minute stand in with Jeffster – when Lester gets stage fright at some big gig… and yep – the inspiration would be Sarah. – might be great to see the return of Stevie Ray Bartowski on guitar too!

  17. Gringo Chuck Fan says:

    Hola Amigos – sorry – Long time – hear no – see no – speak no… but alas, such is life when you get busy at work… thankfully all the snow and icy roads have brought today to a grinding halt : )

    Anyways – I couldn’t find a place in the blog to post this… but I’m just wondering if anyone has a thought or two about the upcoming return of Chuck?
    Particularily the ep. Seduction Impossible?

    I had a wild thought – actually I think its crossed over to the dark side… but, What if ‘someone’ thinks that they can seduce Volkoff?
    That might free MEB to leave her 20 year mission and the hold that Volkoff has over her.
    It seems that its not quite so much that she doesn’t want to leave – but its more like he won’t let her. So if there was ‘someone’ else to become the object of his affection…. that might make things very very interesting!
    Do I really need to use the term ‘someone’???
    sorry – didn’t know where to post these questions.

    • timlay says:

      HI Gringo Chuck Fan

      well we are told that sarah cheats on chuck and leaves him for another man sometime in the next half of the season. We also are told she “takes” a new job. Thats from a site we all know about, although i tend to ignore that person as hes really not a very nice person, he does seem to have an inside track and given we are getting little from anywhere else – its sort of like playing fallout vegas if i only have irradiated water to drink i will drink that i know its bad for me (nerd reference). I have read the same on some other sites as well. It is sorta bothering me as it seems the show runners have lied to us and they are going down the road to split chuck and sarah up and bring in a love interest for sarah yet again – that worked really well last year. I have to say I have got this new great roving internet service I Love it having hotspots you can surf anhywhere – very cool including while on piste activities.

      I had the same thought a while ago, it does make alot of sense. I did not wish to say anything as it may inflame the situation. It could be a cool story line depending how it is done. My fear is that it will be badly handled and damage sarah’s character still further from season 3. She said herself that she had a reputation really they do not wish to confirm that any further no matter how hot a girl is once she cheats she is not worth the effort. If they are truly going down the road of sarah going off with yet another man (like she did for most of season 3) then if its handled badly then it could well end the show we saw how the viewers dropped in season 3 after 3.8 and have not really recovered and we saw the lowest figures this season just when it had been spoiled chuck and sarah had split up 4.9 which was a great dropped to the mid 4’s. I suspect they think they can keep the fans interested and from revolting like they did in 3.7 if its all mission related and not real feelings in affect she is playing volkov and still in love with chuck so TPTB can say they have not broken their promise to the fans they are still together. The taking of a new job could be Mamma B’s role which i think that is the obvious thing.

      Not really sure what I feel and think about that. IT could be worse than season 3 or it could be fun. I am still thinking of just writing to NBC and telling them how despite loving the first half of the show how disapointed I am with the future direction that we are hearing from so called insider websites and that the only thing that i returned watching for was the team bartowski and chuck and sarah and i am unlikely to watch their network again. I may well just stop watching the show and spare myself the heart ache and frustration of yet another season of watching characters that i quite like being destroyed for the sake of driving a poorly written story along by people that appear to hate the fans and like to have their characters act in childish ways.

      Much of this season i think has been trying to fix the issues this could ruin sarah’s characters completely making appear shallow. No doudt the exscuse would be shes doing it to get mamma b back to her family and take down volkov but really i am not sure i would like her afterwards. I have cheated on girlfriends and fiancees and had it done to me .. its very rare you get over it thankfully i found someone that “gets” me.

      I think if they go down that route chuck and sarah could well spend the next part of season not together. I would respect chuck less as a man if he just accepted it we men are funny creatures we cannot get over things like that. While i really do see it happening i worry its going to kill the show we have already seen the show go down to 4.8 (its lowest ever) in the whole arc of chuck and sarah fighting in 4.7 to 4.9.

      I know there are some people that want more risks taken but really the show is on a very dangerous level in terms of its fans. We as a fan base have i think been hurt by season 3 and i for one after being an avid fan now am more a casual viewer the thing is this sort of thing last year would have driven me nuts now its more like “yeah whatever – this show is crap i will just stop watching and hope it just gets cancelled it would serve them right”. That is how i feel about the show now, its a shame as after 4.10 i was really happy they were it seemed learnt their lesson and not taken cheap shots at the fan base as they did last year. After reading the spoiler i am seriously considering just not bothering watching the show ever again just as i did in season 3.

      have a great hols everyone I am


      • jason says:

        tim – so far, season 4 TPTB have been true to their words, just as they were in season 3, only in Season 3 they acknowledged they were going to have love triangles this season they acknowledged they would not. I think the show’s relative consistent performance probably will merit TPTB to continue on the path they have started.

        Here are some positive interpretations for the teasers:

        a possible reason for sarah’s new job and leaving chuck for another man (permanently or semi permanently) – sarah becomes Morgan’s handler because Chuck, 100% intersected all of the time, does not need a handler.

        Much like sarah was casey’s partner and chuck’s handler, quite possible sarah will now be chuck’s partner, and morgan’s handler, just spitballin, but ….

        a possible reason for drunk, flirty sarah, could be the best news of the season, i.e. she’s baaacckkk – Mrs Charles Charles, the Texas drunk, flirty, blond newlywed is back.

        The show is not exactly going how I would like, I doubt that will ever be the case, but now for 17 straight episodes, sarah & chuck have been reasonably true to each other (the lies and secrets aside) & 100% in love, that is a pretty long time to add as evidence.

      • PeterOinNJ says:

        I’m sorry Tim but exactly where did you read “we are told that sarah cheats on chuck”?
        I haven’t read that anywhere. The site you are referring to ( doesn’t say that in it’s teaser spoiler. So I’m curious, where you heard this?

        Now, everyone is free to interpret these teaser spoilers any way they wish. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but further clarify, Magnus goes on to say: If Sarah was breaking up with Chuck to be with another man, the teaser spoiler would be “One great love ends… so another can begin.” (

        But it’s not. The sky is not falling.

      • atcdave says:

        Maybe she cheats on Chuck at cards…

      • timlay says:

        hi jason

        i want to believe you but all the evidence points to something not pretty happening. I know you would like to see the cool spy couple chuck and sarah so would I its a way better show than some of the crap we saw last season and some of the poorer episodes this year. Its never going to happen. I realised that in 4.9 they will always be seperated some way or the other.

        As for a morgan and sarah as a handler i really do not see that unless she cheats on chuck with morgan (god that would be a disaster) the only way they could go with that is dark chuck and he tries to kill the lot of them. I would be cheering him on all the way in that.

        But no i think i am fairly on the money here as is Gringo Chuck Fan. We know she cheats with him read those spoilers on the page its fairly clear it could be as “that” person says “she pretty much throws herself at the man in question and goes a long way its going to drive shipper crazy”. Now it could be just to tease the shippers as he hates them or as he so nicely says desensitise them for the horror to come.

        Frankly that is just as insane as he says they the shippers are. The fact is i reckon he sees most of us as shippers well there are alot of people who like chuck and sarah together and with good reason its a better show (hell it is the show), its more like what it used to be and really we went through too much last year. People are pretty reasonable yes we have our blowouts but people are reasonable to one another.

        I am not sure if there are many hardcore shippers left after season 3 i used to be not anymore. We lost 2 million viewers and at worst go down to 4.8 viewers so far tehre are i think more casual viewers now.

        To call them crazy they are a part of the fan base which is now low .. given what we saw in phase 3 winding up a section of the fan base before xmas is a mistake and strikes me as very cruel. I find it very disgusting that the main cheerleaders of the show are so cruel to fans that were on the money last year in terms of the mess that was season 3 and were right to voice their concerns. Whenever someone says do not like this they are called a shipper. To be cruel to people because you have a privaleged position is well twisted its an abuse of power.

        I just want a decent show that i can enjoy. I do not really need to look at every single detail. Watching people suffer and do things that are imoral or hurtful to people is not the kind of TV i want to watch. It is also not what chuck used to be before season 3.

        The direction of the show as it seems to be going irrates me, and i sorta feel i just wasted 10 hours of my life and gave the TPTB a second chance and hay they just slapped me in the face. But frankly it more makes me think just stop watching so the cruel cheerleaders are as reasonable for the loss of viewers last year as they are driving away fans this year. Instead of trying to make people excited about the show. I know one of the reasons i stopped watching last year was there was no where that was being honest and free where people could vent their hatred for the shows direction. I can imagine this website will be the only place for that as i really think the next half of the season is not going to be much for chuck and sarah fans they will be seperated but together as a couple and they will do some bad things but hay do not worry they will likely find a contrived way to get them back together after all the pain and suffering and wild character damage that has been done to them.

      • atcdave says:

        timlay this site is full of hard core ‘shippers, there are plenty of us left. And I am positive Sarah will not cheat on Chuck. There may be a seduction mission that gets scary (like the hotel scene in Beefcake), or Chuck and Sarah may have a fairly big fight that lasts for an episode or so; but Chuck and Sarah are together, never doubt it.

      • thinkling says:

        @Tim: I would hate any kind of return to s3-type situations, but I think that part of the story has been told. As TPTB said the internal angst has been well explored, and now they are happy to tell the story of C/S as a couple, with couple issues, but together all season as a couple. And so far s4 has been great, GENIUS as Ernie says. It’s my favorite season so far, and I think the drama side has been really reasonable, good actually, not what I would classify as angst, though some might disagree. So I would rather not burn all my emotional energy borrowing trouble that hasn’t happened yet. Like the saying goes: if you cross a bridge before you get to it, you have to pay the toll twice … or 5 or 6 times.

        Jason’s right; TPTB have been true to their word.

        Read the spoilers for 4.09 from the same site you are now quoting. He said Sarah hates her new boyfriend. Look how that turned out. Chill, friend. It’s going to be OK. Keep watching, with an open mind. The first episode where there actually is trouble, then you can throw a brick at the TV and yell at TPTB. You can even yell at us. If you’re right, we’ll be yelling right along with you. But so far this season, in spite of some advanced fand-ringing, Chuck & Sarah have been all good, no?

        Rewatch your favorite episodes and enjoy!

      • herder says:

        Look, I know that Magnus loves the show and on his site he is free to say whatever he wants. But understand that winding up shippers is a past time for him and a lot of the reaction that I am seeing is just that, a reaction to what he is saying rather than a reaction to the episode that airs. I personally find that reading his spoilers diminishes my enjoyment of the show, so I don’t read them. If those spoilers are causing you upset, avoid them, if you find them fun and challenging, read them.

        For the record, having a new love interest for Sarah in the back nine would be monumentally stupid and everything that I have seen this year shows that TPTB aren’t that stupid. So, not going to happen.

      • atcdave says:

        Thanks for your rational comments Herder. By getting excited over this stuff he’s getting exactly what he wants. His front half spoilers were clearly misleading and provocative, I expect the back half spoilers to be exactly the same. He would rather annoy ‘shippers than generate actual excitement for the show.

      • herder says:

        Not that I want to go too far on speculationg about deliberately misleading hints, but Sarah cheating on Chuck and leaving him for another man could be about Jack Burton. Her dad could be in trouble and she “cheats” on him by breaking their rule of “no secrets, no lies” to help her dad. Much like Chuck and his mom, Sarah may have qualms about involving Chuck in something that is probably illegal (with Jack Burton that is a pretty fair assumption).

      • amyabn says:

        Tim, I don’t want to come off sounding like a jerk, but why do you read that stuff if it only makes you upset/miserable? You clearly enjoy the show or you wouldn’t be here sharing your insights with us 🙂 I know the site you are speaking of and most of what is posted there, imho, is to rile people up. Most of what is posted has a small grain of truth to it, but it is twisted to illicit such reactions as yours. All I’m saying is why waste your energy? I’ve thoroughly enjoyed the entire season, starting with Honeymooners in S3 to present. Yes, sure, we all nitpick a bit because we love the show, but as Ernie says, it has been GENIUS! Enjoy the gift that is Chuck while we have it. It won’t be on forever 😦

    • atcdave says:

      I would put no stock in vague spoilers. We were hearing dire things about Chuck and Sarah being “separated” in the front episodes too, and it not only was not damaging to the characters or relationship, it yielded some of the best episodes ever. The show is about Chuck and Sarah, and they are both clearly ready to do anything for each other. I am certain TPTB know this is what we want. There will be nothing like S3 stupidity this season, I am sure of that.

      • timlay says:

        Too true atcdave its a shame cause thats exactly what hes doing by such spoilers really you would think whoever is feeding him spoilers would have figured out hes actually damaging the viewership. We did see a drop in viewers when the spoilers came out that chuck and sarah would have problems 4.7. I actually like reading spoilers it just means i can decide what i want to watch if a show is not doing something i am interested in or approve of then i can use my remote. The is plenty of legal ways to watch a show. I see no reason to sit in when i could be doing something else that would not leave me feeling fed up. Me i just am not going to bother wasting my time watching the next few episodes. I really see no point in watching episodes that is unlikely to entertain me i missed out of 4.7-4.9 it was good watching them back to back. When i can see where its going and read the reviews if it sounds good i will watch it on amazon.

      • atcdave says:

        But tim when you don’t watch you let the trouble-maker win. The show has been awesome this season, if too many people don’t watch it simply won’t be around anymore, and then we all loose.

      • alladinsgenie4u says:

        For me, such ‘spoilers’ are equivalent to static and white noise. No sense fretting over them, when we cant even begin to fathom the context. Let the official synopsis come out – we can discuss a lot more based on it.

      • timlay says:

        I understand that atcdave i sorta wish i had found this website back in season 3 when i still loved the show and was an avid fan. There was just no where to discuss things. Please do not take this the wrong way but i do not care if it gets cancelled i said it last season i do not care if we get season 5 i want a season i can watch and enjoy. If they do that i will be back to watch more there are things simply are for me red lines that mean i would stop watching. I am just not like you lot i do not feel the need any more to look at every moment of an episode its more for me two questions 1. did i enjoy it .. if i did i will watch the next one. 2. Is the previews and spoilers for the episode sound fun do i want to bother staying into watch it. I do that with all shows i watch.

        Thats why i defended left overs when people like OD were calling it boring … no it did what it had to. The season so far has been good.

      • atcdave says:

        Timlay you just said exactly the key point, the season so far has been very good. That is why I can confidently ignore unofficial and misleading spoilers. TPTB have regained some measure of my trust (and believe me, at this point in S3 I was as bitter as anyone). At least I trust them more than I trust a certain blogger who clearly wants to upset fans.

        So all I’m saying is please don’t go repeating non-sense spoilers that were calculated to get people angry! We’re not completely recovered from the actual malfunction that was S3, so let’s not start creating ill will again when nothing has even gone wrong yet!

        You know I really hope you’re able to get more excited about the show again and be as excited for its continued survival as most of us are. But you’re never required to agree.

    • thinkling says:

      If it’s Sarah seducing someone, there’d be no need to bring in Roan Montgomery.

      • atcdave says:

        Yeah Thinkling, I’m guessing it probably isn’t even Chuck. Morgan maybe, that would be funny.

      • Jen says:

        LOL.. or maybe Casey. We haven’t seen him “try” to put the moves on anyone. I’m guessing he needs some help 😉

      • atcdave says:

        you mean “Agent Frankenstein?!”

      • Jen says:

        It doesn’t seem like he is smooth with the ladies… 😉 Not even as Alex Coburn. Do you rememebr the picture stip in Tic tac? He’s got the same serious face in all of them, hilarious!

      • timlay says:

        Hi PeterOinNJ

        read down the first page there some interesting comments there that suggest how bad it could be. Now i am willing to admit it could be him just trying to wind shippers up which i think is stupid in itself given the show is circling the drain with the number of viewers its pulling. But hay what do i know. Like i said last year i read the spoilers then decide if i will bother watching what we know is this all goes down in the next 4 episodes. So i have a great time frame not to bother wasting my time watching i did not bother watching from 3.8, saw 3.13 was very disapointed and never watched again. It sorta cemented me as a casual viewer. The only reason i started watching again is they said there would be none of that crap cheap story shots this season. So far i have been happy enough but it does not take much for me to just tune out I am part of the MTV Generation (as bart says low attention span) – i think i may have said that?

        Like i said i am just responding to the post about the idea i can see that sarah would go after volkov like i said it could be good .. it could be a mess. We will see i guess loving sarah in black latex cat suit if thats her. I am still in two minds to watch or not.

      • thinkling says:

        I say we’re in for a treat with some Sarah/Morgan hilarity.

        It’ll be good to see Roan again. He can see that Chuck got the girl without a rose or a dinner jacket … or a martini.

        Hey, Jen. Casey seduction mission run by Roan would be a hilarious disaster.

      • jason says:

        @think – have you heard any word – is Zachary Levi scheduled for any guest appearances on the show “Morgan’? He is this season’s shaw, the guy TPTB can’t seem to take off of the screen, robbing valuable time from the lead actor and actress – who really are very good at their craft – geez – enough already.

      • Jen says:

        I’m ecstatic Roan is coming back! I’m def lookign forward to seeing his reaction to Chuck and Sarah getting together. He did tell Chuck he’d teach him to get Sarah! See Roan, being tall, dark, and caring is not so bad after all! LOL!
        We got Nicole Richie and Stone cold back… why can’t we get now some Carina and Jack Burton?!

      • thinkling says:

        @Jen: Jack and Carina … I really hope so. I’d like to see them get caught up in a mission by mistake and Jack see C/S together. His some-kind-of-cop daughter and her super-spy fiancé. Hope we’ll get that.

        @Jason: I tend to agree that Morgan is getting too much screen time, but my favorite scenes with him this year have been with Sarah.

      • jason says:

        @think – morgan’s best with sarah – yep. But for me, so has casey’s best moments been with sarah, the free fall, the ‘he misses you’, near the entire phase 3 are 2 moments that come to mind for casey, I am sure I can think of more. And chuck’s, I mean chuck is best with sarah. But, I sort of like Ellie best when Sarah is around too.

      • thinkling says:

        Why, Jason, I sense a pattern here. 😉

      • alladinsgenie4u says:

        @thinkilng – there was a casting spoiler for 4×14 which stated that Lesley Ann Brandt was guest starring in Seduction Impossible -and that she even had scenes with Roan – IMHO, that sort of rules her out as Greta and puts her as the person who is to seduced by either Chuck/Morgan/Casey/Roan. 🙂

      • thinkling says:

        @Aladins: I would hope for any of the 4, except Chuck. Been there done that. Don’t really need it right now, unless it’s totally for laughs.

      • atcdave says:

        I like Jason’s pattern and tend to agree!

        I could see any of the guys as fun on a seduction mission, just do hope if its Chuck its played for laughs. But I kind of don’t think it will be Chuck, they’ve done it, and now with the Intersect back why would he need Roan? My main interest in seeing him is just his reaction to how Chuck got the girl with resorting to “the Montgomery”.

        I do agree Morgan has been overused, but I like him in smaller doses. His scenes with Sarah in Phase 3 were dynamite.

  18. Gringo Chuck Fan says:

    Wow – boy – did that question ever find legs!
    Anyways – Now that I read through all your other much more profound thoughts – Yep – I think Roan comes back to help either Casey – or Morgan try to seduce the other special weekly guest! Let the laughs begin!!!
    Ok – so a couple other thoughts –
    4.11 Balcony? Think there might be a proposal???
    4.12 Gobbler? more leftover turkey… or does Jeff have another twinkie eating showdown?
    4.13 Push Mix… Does Chuck make a sound track for Ellie to have her baby?

    Sorry – but I’m getting kinda excited about what’s coming… and I love to hear all your ideas and thoughts! – cheers

    • joe says:

      Heh! Legs happen to us all the time! 😉

      Gringo, you’re about the 4921st person to connect “proposal” to the word “balcony”, and I’m starting to wonder why everyone is making that connection. Does it have something to do with Romeo & Juliet? Is there a famous balcony somewhere in romantic literature that I’m forgetting about? A song, maybe?

      Or is just a romantic notion? Inquiring minds want to know!

      • alladinsgenie4u says:

        Maybe just a romantic notion.As for me I will safely wait for the detailed synopsis of 4×11 before trying to connect balcony and engagement. 😉

        What could be such an important balcony so as to find mention in the title. Is it a balcony at the opera/theater? Is it a balcony that will be used by Casey/Sarah to shoot a sniper rifle? Is it a balcony on which Chuck proposes to Sarah – which then collapses due to an explosion – damn these mission interferences. 🙂

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