It’s Speculatin’ Time!

4.18 Chuck vs. The A Team

We’re only four more evenings away from the next new episode of Chuck, and it seems like forever! We don’t know (yet) who wrote or (Phil Klemmer) who directed, but Robin Givens is back as Bentley, with Stacy Keibler and Isaiah Mustafa returning as Greta. Or as Gretas. Or whatever they are.

So what do we know? We know it’s about “frenemies”.

[Caution: Spoilers Follow!]

We Have The Synopsis

…as supplied by ChuckTV.net:

CHUCK FEARS THAT CASEY HAS A SECRET THAT MAY SPLIT UP THE TEAM — ROBIN GIVENS, STACY KEIBLER AND ISAIAH MUSTAFA GUEST STAR –Chuck (Zachary Levi) and Sarah (Yvonne Strahovski) investigate when they suspect that Casey (Adam Baldwin) is carrying out private missions. Meanwhile, Chuck fears that the CIA’s seemingly-perfect new operatives (guest stars Isaiah Mustafa and Stacy Keibler) will render him obsolete. Elsewhere, Morgan settles in with a new roommate, and Awesome (Ryan McPartlin) panics when Ellie (Sarah Lancaster) embarks on a potentially dangerous line of research. Scott Krinsky, Vik Sahay and Bonita Friedericy.

And the Spoilers

Between the official write up and the promo, the Gretas seem a bit more fearsome than just knife wielding Summer Glau threatening the Buy Morons. They look – imposing. And it seems Chuck thinks so too.

Do they come by their skills naturally? Or are they turbo-charged a bit by the same technology that raises plywood from the depths? – uh – a new version of the Intersect? The word “obsolete” was used to describe Chuck’s feelings. We know that he can be a little insecure at times, but – really? Even after Sarah his own personal ego booster?

Thanks to Ausiello, we know that the Gretas are on Casey’s team. Maybe they just are the ornery type. Then again, they could be taking their cues from Casey and he is a bit perturbed at Chuck. Casey has always been the “frenemy”. Or maybe he is he just feeling a little unneeded and unloved?

Certainly his new roommate, Morgan, can do something about that!

We know from spoilers that the good General Beckman has some relationship with Bentley. In an report, Ausiello described them as “frenemies”. That tells us something, but I’m not sure what. A power struggle, perhaps!

– joe

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About joe

In my life I've been a professor, martial artist, rock 'n roller, rocket scientist, lover, poet and brain surgeon. I'm lying about the brain surgery.
This entry was posted in Rumors, Season 4, Spoilers, Wild Speculation. Bookmark the permalink.

272 Responses to It’s Speculatin’ Time!

  1. rac2873 says:

    Watch this promo it is explains what the Gretas are and Casey’s roll in the betrayal. Shakes fist at Casey. lol

  2. Gringo Chuck Fan says:

    I hope this is a HUGE setup for a big plot twist – or sneaky undercover double cross by Casey. Or, its harder to forgive someone after they toss you out a window, and leave you for dead… 🙂

    • joe says:

      Awww – Casey holding a grudge? I hope not! 😉

      • rac2873 says:

        LOL he said no problem. I guess he was just waiting for the time to pull one over on Agent Walker. I just can’t understand why he would do that to Chuck. If he really beleives that his new team will replace Chuck then I cannot see him being a viable member of Team B. Who would trust him. Casey is digging himself a huge hole. He made it much worse when he told Morgan not to tell Chuck and Sarah.

      • Gringo Chuck Fan says:

        I can see Casey holding a grudge… [anyone that could live inside the walls of somebody’s house for weeks at a time]… actually I suspect resentment flows through his veins!
        He said he was worried he was growing soft in Burbank ~ maybe this move will give him the cold /killer edge again.

      • armysfc says:

        RAC i can answer that from a real life angel. casey is a military man. we see out friends come and go every day. if we get lucky we can be with the same group for at most 3 years before we get split up. that happens rarely because nobody rotates at the same time. you make friends sure but not the same as civilians. i have seen casey as always chucks mentor first, his friend (civilian sense) second.

        that said i think he is working with beckman to find out what is up with the new intersects. he just can’t tell his team what is going on. at this point i’ll give him the benefit of the doubt.

    • uplink2 says:

      Talked about this in the spoiler thread but I think he very well mat be undercover in his own team. Maybe Beckman put him up to it to find out what Bentley is planning. I highly doubt he turns on them but I’m not sure we will know the final answer in monday’s episode. It may come later in the season.

      • joe says:

        Oooohhh I like that spec. It fits right into what he told C&S in FBoE – that Beckmen has him on a secret mission. Maybe there was more to that than just throwing C&S off the scent for a bit.

        And what the heck is the TR-476, anyway? I suppose we’ll find out, but I’m more curious now than I was last week about it.

      • atcDave says:

        Yeah Uplink that’s exactly my bet. Casey is investigating by joining.

        On a side note, anyone else notice the write up on NBC’s Chuck page says Chuck AND Sarah worry about becoming obsolete. Curiouser and curiouser.

      • Big Kev says:

        Isn’t 4.18 Klemmer’s first episode back? One of his writing memes is covers within covers – so the spec that Casey is a mole within his own team fits.
        However it plays out there’s no way that Casey betrays Team B.

      • uplink2 says:

        Well we know how NBC writeups can little to do with reality so I wouldn’t put too much on that lol. Remember the Fake Name writeup? What I do think may happen is it may take a while for all this to come out. Bentley is also in Muuurder though some are speculating that Casey is not because he isn’t in the writeup but that means little for the main three.

        Maybe this will be a scenario where they can go a little darker without it being Chuck/Sarah relationship tension, Casey may be feeling a little left out and I do think he is more hurt by Alex’s almost betrayal of him in regards to Kathleen but I don’t see him turning. He still knows what that team is capable of and honor and loyalty mean a great deal to a soldier like Casey.

      • atcDave says:

        I just double checked and the actual wording is “phased out.” But yeah you’re right Uplink, the network write-ups are often comically out of step. I think the only line in the short write-up of Bank of Evil was “Morgan looks for a new room-mate.” And in Couch Lock the second line was “Chuck worries about what he’ll have to sacrifice to find his mom.” Neither of these issues was even a major part of the episodes in question, yet they weren’t 100% wrong either.
        So while I get why Chuck may worry about his own obsolescence if super agent intersects are entering service, its hard to imagine why Sarah (or really Chuck for that matter) would worry about being “phased out.” Even when a new system enters service it is often a long time before previous weapons are removed (most extreme contemporary example; B-52 entered service in 1955, it was supposed to be replaced by the B-1B and B-2. While both later aircraft entered service, the B-52 has never been replaced). In short, if a weapon (or team!) is effective, it will continue to operate. I can’t imagine a scenario where a competent team of field operatives would be retired just because another team was better by some measure.

        Sorry, none of that means Chuck’s feelings won’t be hurt or he won’t worry about being obsolete! Sarah worrying about it strikes me as far stranger.

      • joe says:

        Now it sounds like we (the fans) are being mature and realistic about it, Dave!

        Maybe it’s true – it’s *not* kids who are watching the show. Just the young at heart. 😉

      • James Bond says:

        Why does casey having a new team not make him a man of honour? did casey say that he would be with chuck and sarah forever? is casey’s code not god, country, core then family/friends?

        So if we take his code then by joining another team and leading them to success against potential evil bad guys….. how does this not make him a hero, right?

      • atcDave says:

        Its no reflection on Casey at all. He may be just looking for a new challenge. We know if (when!) the Gretas turn out to be real trouble Casey will make the right choices.

      • uplink2 says:

        James, you forgot one. It’s God, Country, Honor, Corps. Meaning that honor comes before the Marines. For him to secretly abandon his team for personal and professional gain and not tell them is dishonorable and not in his code. Not that I’m saying he is doing that because I believe he is quite probably undercover working for Beckman in Bentley’s group but to abandon his friends who have risked treason to help him with Kathleen and Alex is dishonorable. Hey even as a civilian Casey in effect committed murder by killing the mole but thought enough of Chuck and Sarah to risk possible imprisonment by telling Sarah that he did it. I just see this as a possible cover for something a lot more.

      • uplink2 says:

        Actually it might have been God Country Duty Corps but it is all part of the honor code so it still fits.

      • James Bond says:

        Yeah it does not fit, his duty is to the civilian nation and the free world not his friends/family. If he finds what he percieves to be a better team that is more efficient and more likely to serve the country better then does he not have a right to do that?

      • JC says:

        Lucky for Casey, Alex and Kathleen that Chuck didn’t feel that way during Tic Tac.

      • JC says:

        @Dave

        Remember the last time the government decided to Phase out Chuck it involved a bullet in his head. So if Sarah or Chuck found that out, I could see some concern. Actually it’d really be interesting if that piece of info did come out during all of this.

      • jason says:

        i posted somewhere else that chuck, sarah and casey are the only cast members capable of ratcheting up the spy drama, hence for more drama to occur, the spy team needs more spy characters. Interesting that casey will be used this way in the next mini arc.

        Put me in the category of he is fully on team B’s side. If I were writing, I would have chuck and sarah jointly risk their lives based on their faith in casey – a look at each other and jump over the edge of the building type moment, without them or the audience ‘knowing’ casey’s intentions. Would set up all kinds of classic casey lines at the end, ‘how did you know’, or maybe even the quip, ‘moron, of course I was on your side’!

      • atcDave says:

        JC you’re completely right about that; and if Chuck (and/or Sarah) has found out about the kill order that is exactly the reason to be worried.
        I’m thinking Casey telling one of them is the most likely way it would come out, and then we would know fairly early where his loyalties really lie.

        Of course the whole kill order thing has always been one of those offensively unrealistic things that’s always irked me a little (much like the Red Test). Honestly I can buy into the Intersect itself easier!

      • Tamara Burks says:

        With the male Greta’s attitude in this clip (I know it’s not much but we have to work with what we’ve got) I think maybe he’ll say something about the order in order to get to Chuck . Maybe something like looks like you’re obsolete again, Maybe this time they’ll let Casey finish taking you out. Which would tell them that Casey started to take him out.

    • Paul says:

      I don’t see Casey holding a grudge, nor do I see him being Beckman’s inside man. I do see a Casey who’s been sidelined more and more, feeling like Team B’s “fat kid”. He’s the type who wants to be in the game, not riding the bench. So if that means taking an opportunity when it presents itself, that what’s he will do. We already have some hints that Bentley is using Casey, so keep that in mind.

      I think what will be interesting is Casey’s personal loyalties vs his professional loyalties. How much of those for him are intertwined now, and to what degree. How will he react when his new team’s objectives clash or are in direct competition with Team B’s. It’s going to be an interesting arc.

      • weaselone says:

        In this team he’d still be the little fat kid, even if he was the nominal leader. The other two members of his team are Intersects. His entire purpose is probably to keep them from being killed while they are in the process of flashing.

  3. James Bond says:

    I honestly think fans forget that this is a spy show as well and only consider feelings…..no one cares that there is supposed to be a world out there that needs saving, it has been all about how chuck and sarah feel….their feelings….

    Do you guy’s remember when sarah first showed up way back in the pilot how badass she was before she got chuckified…..she was a stone cold killer who poisened a bunch of people and shot two people she faught with point blank, now she is soft like pudding……same goes for casey.

  4. amyabn says:

    My quick two cents. I think Casey is undercover with his new team, getting dirt on Bentley. I think she may be working for Volkoff. I mean we were beat over the head with how powerful he was and that he had plants everywhere.
    Where did the new Intersect come from? Did Beckman know the Intersect project is back? Are the Greta’s going to need Governors like Chuck? If no, who fixed the quirk-Chuck has Orion’s computer that Ellie fixed. Even plywood, the least special of all, needs a governor.

    I hope they use these feelings of obsolescence to show Chuck (maybe once and for all) that it is his unique perspectives, thoughts, and approach that make him unique and special. And speaking of unique, I must say I don’t like that the Greta’s seem to have an Intersect. We have been led from the beginning to understand how special Chuck’s brain is. I hope we find out more about Project Omaha here. But back to special. We’ve been led to believe from the pilot, through Alma Mater, through Suburbs, and finally Subway/Ring II that the Intersect took a really special person to handle it. We’ve seen attempts by Fulcrum to mass produce agents (and turn folks into vegetables). It seems contradictory that now all the special people have been found, were CIA agents first, and now have been intersected. I’ll be several days behind all of you in getting to see it. It will be interesting how this shakes out!
    Peace from the Middle East!

    • Paul says:

      Remember, the ultimate goal of the Interesect was to implant it into numerous agents. That goal kept getting derailed for various reasons throughout the seasons. Chuck in essence was a walking prototype/test model. I think him being “unique” is only partly his ability to handle the intersect. We’ve been hinted and shown that there ARE others with this ability as well (Bryce was screened and picked for the 2.0 project, Shaw survived intersecting, etc). So it comes as no surprise if the Gretas was a screening/selection program to find people who also have this abilty. His uniqueness comes also from his ability to come up with unorthodox solutions to problems.

    • weaselone says:

      It’s hard to say. Perseus and Zarnov both seemed floored by the idea that the entire Intersect could be stored in a single mind. I always assumed the initial concept was that relevant data could be uploaded into agents for specific missions and that Chuck’s successful upload may have changed that focus. Still, outside of Shaw, nobody else uploaded the entire Intersect other than Chuck and I think it’s fairly clear that he was somewhat messed up mentally by the experience. It was also never made clear what percentage he retained and we have no idea about his current condition. Shaw was defeated in combat by Chuck, which shouldn’t have happened had they actually been equally matched Intersect wise as Shaw was physically more powerful.

    • uplink2 says:

      Amy, I really like your idea that Bentley is working for Volkoff and I will extend it that she is in contact with the lawyer. Intersect agents could be a huge thing for Volkoff Industries to be able to sell the technologies and the operatives. It also allows them to extent in reach of Volkoff and yes it is similar to the Ring with Sham. It also fits with her real target of Chuck and the hint a while back that we should be thinking of family in how Bentley is going to go after Chuck. I think she will be behind Ellie’s research/hobby as they have hinted that the Awesomes come into the mythology of the spy world indirectly in the back 11. It then allows them to tie all the stories together at the end.

      I also think that the idea that Casey is doing this for real and is just looking at his possible future differently after he felt betrayed by his own daughter is just too simplistic. With one of the big three characters I think there needs to be something deeper behind it. Casey undercover for Beckman works perfectly for that.

      All in all it looks like a very fun ride but those three weeks off in April are really gonna suck.

  5. Tamara Burks says:

    I’m so glad this spec thread finally showed up , with very little on this week that wasn’t a rerun I was getting into arguments on the Buffy boards with all the time on my hands(I really have to stop looking at them but the ones I get on are on a fiction site so it’s harder to avoid) .

    This ep would be the perfect time for Chuck to find out how close Casey was to kiling Chuck when Graham blew up. If he does find out I wonder if he’ll also find out that Casey tried to talk Beckman out of it (which is when I started to like Casey helped along by his look of relief when it was cancelled ) .

    If they only find out the first part than maybe it was something said by that prick of a Greta.

  6. Gringo Chuck Fan says:

    I just picked this off the Chuck and Sarah wedding site…. a quote from Big Mike;
    made be laugh out loud for a couple minutes,
    ” I hear Fernando makes a great flower girl. ”
    … can you picture him walking down the aisle with a little basket of petals!

    • Gringo Chuck Fan says:

      Ok – rule number 1… no posting until after your 2nd cup of coffee…
      ” made ME laugh for a couple minutes…”
      and I really hope that Big Mike’s suggestion was just for posting/poking fun…. I can’t think of a more awful place to host a wedding – than the Buy More.
      ~ that’s just wrong.

  7. Tamara Burks says:

    I wonder why my gravatar of Chuck at the end of Seduction shows up for the spoiler page but not for any other page. Odd, isn’t it?

    • Tamara Burks says:

      Maybe it’s because I can only get the spoiler page in firefox instead of IE. Even with firefox it still gets hung up with script errors.

      • atcDave says:

        Seriously? That’s weird. I can access via Safari. Just don’t get me started on the NBC forums…

  8. Tamara Burks says:

    latest bit from the bog on chuckandsarahwedding.com

    Posted by Sarah
    March 10, 2011 at 14:38

    I never get like this about anything, but… OMG, I am so excited…

    I’ve decided to take control of “Operation Wedding.” I’m going to handle this like I handle everything: efficiently.

    Let’s get started: I have a great lead on the dress. Used the CASTLE computer to scan over some options. I like my dresses on the simple side. Not too lacy and ornate. Classic, yet simple, that’s the name of the game. Now, if only catching the bad guys was this easy!!!

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Maybe I will get my dream scene of Sarah (and possibly a few bridesmaids) fighting thier way to the perfect dress at one of those wedding dress sale brawls if this has anything to do with canon and trying on the dresses in Castle were just to get a sense of what she liked in a wedding dress.

    Hopefully Sarah taking control of Operation Wedding won’t go the way her control of Operation Proposal did.

    • Paul says:

      You know it will. 😉 I have a scene in my head of a wedding that is something akin to the bank scene in First Fight: baddies bust in on the wedding and they end up doing their vows in the middle of a fight.

  9. Tamara Burks says:

    And for the first time in a while the Chuck news around the web thing at the bottom of the page has actual news about our chow instead of Charlie Sheen. If you blink you may miss it!

  10. herder says:

    If Casey has a new project, I don’t see any problem with his wanting his team to be the best, I think the problem comes about with the actions of the Gretas who become overly competitive. I think that somehow they get ahold of old information about his self esteem/confidence issues and figure the way to best him is to make him feel inadequate, the kill order to Casey may come out this way.

    My guess is that this attitude is a symptom of problems with adjusting to having an intersect and that there is indeed something unique about Chuck that allows him to function normally with an intersect. My suspicion is that others who can down load an intersect end out with delusions of grandeur and a tendancy to beleive that they are infalible and in the end are non-functional.

    Old Spice Greta was pretty cool last time and Lady Wrestler Greta was ok too, now they seem somewhat jerkish (creeping Shawitis?) maybe super achievers can’t handle the intersect powers, that you need to be an under-acheiver to remain balanced.

  11. rac2873 says:

    Casey was going to put a bullet in Chuck in First Date. Sarah showing up stopped the assasination. He also was going to bunker Chuck in First Kill. It was Sarah who always had Chuck’s back.

    Casey knows that Chuck would have flashed on the computer name so he made a deal with Morgan about keeping it secret from both Chuck and Sarah.

    He may need to go and experience other challenges but deliberately hiding this and blind siding Chuck and Sarah is an dick move.

    • uplink2 says:

      If he is undercover for Beckman then your point is moot. Also you stopped at season 2 and he has changed even more since then. Chuck and Sarah committed treason to protect him in TicTac and he honored that by protecting Chuck in Final Exam and then opened him self up to possible murder charges by telling Sarah that he killed the mole because he cared deeply about them and knew that she deserved to know the truth to make a fully informed decision, a decision I think she had already made but his revealing that to her confirmed to her that it was absolutely the right decision.

      I think you are just looking a bit too much at the surface of this and I believe that there is something much deeper going on here that will be revealed later on. It could be another example of them learning their lessons of season 3 and running the big secret reveal through one of the big three people care about instead of someone no one did.

      • rac2873 says:

        Oh I know he changed in season 2/3 but people are acting like he always had Chuck’s back. He did not, only Sarah did all the time.

        If he is working with Beckman than my point is moot but if he is not then does Casey really belong on Team B anymore? Could they trust him. Sarah looks pissed and shocked in that promo.

        He is after all essentially stabbing them in the back by being involved with the thing that would make Chuck obsolete. Would the ramifications be another kill order on Chuck?

        What happens when the Greta’s fail and Chuck saves the day. Does Casey go back to the team, would the team want him. Slippery slope but very interesting.

      • atcDave says:

        They simply won’t go that dark with Casey again. They’ve made a huge point this season about all the ways he’s changed. Not only friendship with Chuck and Sarah, but his relationships with Alex and Morgan too.
        Sarah (and Chuck) may be ticked or hurt by certain things that happen (or seem to happen); but in the end, will Casey will clearly proove where his loyalties lie. I’m really not even worried about it.

      • herder says:

        My guess of the shocked look is that both teams have been sent out on a mission that turns out to be the same mission. This is where team Bartowski find out about team Casey. You get a bit of friction, sort of how it was with Carina in Wookie about who gets to bring in the diamond only worse.

      • uplink2 says:

        I agree with you that he didn’t always in season’s 1 and 2 all the way till Colonel. Duty came before honor in that case. But since then he has had his back. I would also contend that one of my great disappointments with season 3 is that Sarah did not always have Chuck’s back. Especially in Nacho Sampler, Beard, Final Exam or the beginning of American Hero. Beard in particular was horrifying because she was so wimpy about it.

        But his changes have been profound and I don’t think we will see them retreat on that. His betrayal at the hands of his daughter has rocked him. Plus he does see his role diminishing and that understandably concerns him but I don’t think his character has changed and honor is at the core of that change.

      • Tamara Burks says:

        In season 3 Casey definitely had Chuck’s back and vice versa. Wimpy is a good description of her asking “for me” to get Shaw to not commit murder (which depending on how much damage would have been done might have taken out everyone in the Buy More as well as Chuck, Morgan and the bad guys and been mass murder) .I was horrified at that. A swift kick to the groin would have been much better.

        I think a lot of what Casey said to Morgan was him projecting how he felt about everything.

        I think the Greta thing though could turn out to be the echo to Broken Heart except this time it isn’t Sarah he’s saying is better , it will him saying Chuck is better than both of the Gretas put together.

      • rac2873 says:

        That would be sweet Tamyra. Showing everyone once and for all Chuck is the man. But they did say that Givens character was a foil for Chuck so wonder how long that plays out?

  12. rac2873 says:

    Tension – Interesting. I am on team Chuck and Sarah.

    Chuck‘s awesome. (<<CHUCK PUN!!!!!) Any news? — J.J.
    [Breaking news: Your question made me laugh out loud. Now, back to your regularly scheduled programming…] Monday’s Chuck is going to answer many of the questions you have about the GRETA, and in many ways acts as a launching pad for the next couples of episodes. It also marks the return of Isaiah Mustafa and Stacy Keebler, who find themselves at odds with Chuck and Sarah. “We definitely wanted to see some of the GRETA characters we established earlier in the season and see what happened to them next and explain what the government was up to and why there were GRETAs inside the Buy More,” says co-creator Chris Fedak. “Once we got the order for more episodes, after the initial 13, we were like ‘Oh, we gotta get in there and explain what the GRETA project was.’ And so it was kinda neat to take those characters, who we’d only had a little big of time with in episode 2 and episode 3 [of the season], and say, ‘Well, let’s explore them; let’s meet them a little bit better.’”

    I need me some Chuck scoop! — Elise
    There’s trouble in the spy world — and not in the normal way where they can simply shoot something and solve their problem. It’s more of an internal issue. “Casey is very much tied into what’s happening with the GRETA project at this moment. He might very well be in charge of this project. So there’s tension within the team. There’s a rift growing,” Fedak explains. “The question, and essentially where the A-Team title comes from — is: Who is the A Team? Is it Chuck and Sarah or is it Casey and his new team? That’s definitely at the heart of this episode.”

    • Tamara Burks says:

      Imdb lists male Greta’s real name but not female Greta’s. His is Rick Noble.

    • uplink2 says:

      Rac where is that from? I haven’t seen it but been busy today.

      I got the impression fro the beginning that was the basis of the episode. Who is the A-Team. Obviously it will be Chuck and Sarah as we know the Greta’s have a flaw but its how all this gets flushed out that is really exciting. BTW is anyone else getting the feeling that there is more buzz about this episode of Chuck than we have seen lately? More interviews, more promos, just in general it seems like it has been amped up a bit.

      • atcDave says:

        Maybe we’re finally getting some effort from NBC.
        After all, Chuck’s one of their few shows that isn’t plummeting in the ratings! I’m excited, and really hoping for some good numbers.

      • uplink2 says:

        I know that the increase in promos is because Chuck is one of the few that are new this week but I also find it interesting that it is getting more promos than The Event. I think it got 1 shot to do something with a lot of promotion and one promo that I loved but never saw any of it monday lol. It failed and they are going to bail on it. Hopefully that will be to Chuck’s benefit.

        I think we will know a lot more about Chuck’s possible season 5 on tuesday.

      • armySFC says:

        we know a lot more now with the NFL news. union broke up and they are facing a long court battle. NBC will need to plan shows to air on sundays.

      • atcDave says:

        Sadly Sunday Night Football was NBC’s top rated program. Its where I first saw previews for the Chuck Pilot. Loosing that venue will hurt (even if it does free up another 4 hours of programming for 17 weeks).

        It is still unlikely that there will be no NFL football, season doesn’t start until September. Last time this happened (1987), only one week was completely skipped (before 3 weeks of scab games, there was no break when the regular players came back) and things got mostly back to normal quickly (well, it is still traumatic for us NFL fans; but the impact on broadcast TV was minimal). If I was to bet Costa Gravan Pesos on this, I would say the situation will be resolved during the time training camps are supposed to be (June/July).
        There is soooo much money on the line, it is unlikely a whole season will actually be skipped.

      • joe says:

        Yes, Dave. I agree it’s unlikely. But I can’t figure out if it helps or hurts Chuck. I mean, it’s bad for NBC/Comcast. But does that make them more or less likely to completely change things (like, their 5th highest rated show)?

        Not a good time to be an NBC exec., I’m sure.

      • armysfc says:

        dave the point i am making is if the mess does not get fixed till like last time the decisions need to be made about the shows in may. the have to plan for the worst and hope for the best. this forces NBC to spend the money for the shows before it is likely to get settled. by july the shows will already be in production. it looks better for chuck now because of this.

  13. herder says:

    I wonder if with Morgan moved out we will see a return to use of the Morgan door, or has Sarah nailed that sucker shut. Morgan startling Sarah at an -ahem- inopportune time could result in something more dangerous than a stilletto heel against his throat.

    Similarly if Casey is his new roomate, does he forego the pj’s he wore as a sop to Sarah, if so, does Casey upon one viewing of low hanging fruit institute an apartment wide dress code or simply push him into his room and nail the door shut.

    If the Gretas are going after Chuck by suggesting that he is not so irreplaceable now, do they try to go after Sarah too by suggesting that domestic goddess Sarah is a much weaker spy than wild card enforcer Sarah. Or do they simply make the mistake of going after Chuck within her field of vision.

    At what point does the General realize that Bentley is seeking to create a new “A-Team” by pulling apart Diane’s most effective team, and how does she fight back. Does she see it coming a mile away and have Casey as her mole, is she blind sided and later has to suborn Casey.

    This episode is Phil Klemmer’s return to writing for Chuck, does he give us another Tom Sawyer, Suburbs, Dream Job and Role Models or do we get another Mask. Personally I’m betting on a pretty good spy story as that seems to be his strong suit. I’m really looking forward to this one.

    • atcDave says:

      I’m looking forward to it too Herder. But some of the questions you pose really have me thinking, Morgan may be facing the greatest mortal peril of any of the main characters.

    • uplink2 says:

      I am very curious and a bit leary about Klemmer’s return. He has been hit and miss. But he must know how Mask is regarded by many as the worst written Chuck episode ever and will he try to make up for that with a brilliant one? Hope so but we shall wait and see.

      The more I think about it the more I think there is a strong chance of Bentley working for Volkoff. This show loves to have a convergence of stories at the end of an arc and that would seem like a perfect vehicle to do it.

    • weaselone says:

      Seriously, I don’t see how Morgan is going to survive the remainder of the season. Between his personal foibles and weird relationship with Alex it’s almost certain that Casey will commit justifiable homicide at some point. That is of course unless he takes too many liberties over at Casa Walkertowski now that he is no longer living there and accidentally kills him.

    • thinkling says:

      I bet we get a great story. Most of Klemmer’s have been good. Mask was ruined because of the geometry not the story itself. I would have probably liked it a lot if not for the love trapezoid.

      I think they’ve set up some interesting stuff that could be as great as the beloved end of S2. We’ve got Intersect mythology and Ellie getting involved, and we’ve got the battle for Vivian’s soul and the whole Volkoff story, as well as the return of LH and TD … maybe Sarah’s mom. Sounds like S2 on steroids.

      Surely the Morgan door is sealed. But with Chuck and Sarah as empty nesters, Morgan could be inopportune just by using his key, interrupting who knows what and placing his life in mortal peril. After all Sarah is deadly.

      Can’t wait to see the Bentley/Beckman showdown and discover the Greta flaw.

      • atcDave says:

        Agree with all of that Thinkling. Including/especially about Mask, it wasn’t the “A” plot per se that was ever the problem; with C/S in a better place we should be able to focus on other things.

  14. patty says:

    You know everybody is worried about what happens if Chuck finds out about the kill order. I think Chuck has seen enough darkness in the spy world that he would get over it fairly quickly. Same for Sarah.

    The person we should worry about finding out is Morgan. He has been sheltered fron the darker aspects of the spy world and it would seriously shake his view of Casey, who is fast becoming his other best friend.

    • thinkling says:

      Good point Patty. I hadn’t even thought about Morgan finding out. I think it’s one of those things that won’t come up, but I suspect you’re right that Morgan would take it the hardest. Chuck and Sarah already know what he was like and what kind of orders come down.

  15. jason says:

    is it a common spec that ellie will be the intersect doctor for bentley / greta’s?

    I wonder if ellie may find out about chuck somehow thru that avenue.

    My spitball spec on ellie and the secret is chuck gets damaged at some point, sarah is crying, holding him, and ellie calmly walks up to sarah and says something to sarah like, “Sarah, it’s ok, I can fix him, mom and I have continued with my dad’s work, when I get thru he won’t need that crazy wristwatch anymore either, I swear, sometimes my dad was so lame.”

  16. OldDarth says:

    Chuck will never find out about the kill order. The show does not roll that way.

    Have to assume that Casey is working his own covert op within an op trying to protect Chuck. If not major poodoo will hit the web Monday night from all the Casey fans.

    • joe says:

      Hum… I started to agree with you, Lou. But you know, the more I think about it, the more I wonder. What if…

      If Chuck actually did find out about the kill order, he’d be upset with Beckman too. It sounds like a potential arc for a 5th season.

      • James Bond says:

        I remember in sensei when chuck said I cannot tell you sarah where casey went because he threatened my life and sarah’s initial response when she said what, was one of anger. Sarah does not like anyone (as seen in FOD or Phase Three or Broken Heart or any multiple episodes) even casey threatening her beloved chuck! She may get very upset!

      • Tamara Burks says:

        As pointed out above the exception to Sarah being protective of Chuck/ angry at anyone who was a threat was early season 3.

        There are at least two instances where she did nothing when Chuck was threatened and both involved Shaw (possibly more) at the end of Fake name where Shaw was strangling him and in the Beard where the most she did was say for me like she was asking her boyfriend to take her to dinner at her favorite place or to watch her tv show instead of a football game.

      • uplink2 says:

        Agreed Tamara. Sarah was a walking contradiction in Season 3. That is why those scenes in those episodes make no sense. It wasn’t a changing character. It was a lost character who didn’t resemble anything we had been taught about her.

        I have often said Beard is one of my favorite episodes of the misery arc but it is because of Chuck and Morgan. I love aha moments or epiphanies. Chuck’s epiphany gave me hope that the misery would one day be over. But Sarah was pathetic in that episode. And Shaw was acting like a terrible spy. He was willing to commit murder, possibly mass murder of innocent civilians, and kill the greatest asset in the CIA to protect useless information about his own search for vengeance. It was selfish and extremely unprofessional. Nothing like the great spy we were told he was. Instead we saw a pathetic loser bent on a solo course of vengeance. And Sarah was going to let him do it. She certainly wasn’t doing her primary job of protecting Chuck at all cost like she had so many times before. One of the rare times I really disliked Sarah Walker and she is my favorite character.

      • Tamara Burks says:

        Any rewatches of Beard have to be watched with the fast forward button ready to go by anything with Shaw in (and by extension Sarah since they attached her to his hip then) .

        Other than that it had many great things, Morgan showing his inner hero and finally getting to find out what had been going on with his best bed the past few years, his telling Chuck that it was OK to love Sarah in spite of all the spy people telling him other wise. Chuck getting his Intersect skills back and kicking butt with a small assist in butt kicking from Morgan (which was way more damage to the Ring than Shaw did) . The revolution staged in the Buy More and Fortunate son being sung , the bad guys reaction to that.

        All that greatness threw Sarah’s strange behavior into sharp relief. She behaved not only as if he didn’t mattter to her or the country but as if all the innocent victims that would have died because of that didn’t matter at all.

        Tic Tac that followed was a great ep as well and gave many hope because they clicked so well , at least until the last bit in the taxi. It’s like when Sarah got within a certain range of Shaw she lost all common sense.

        Maybe that common sense loss is why even after seeing in AH how easily Shaw discarded her for a half baked revenge plan (which would have only taken out a few goons if it had gone as planned) she still went with him arm in arm to the site where she killed his wife after they both knew she killed his wife. AH should have told her how little she meant to him and how far he was willing to go to avenge his wife.

      • Tamara Burks says:

        And one thing I wondered in Beard was why the heck were the discs still there? If thery were so important they should have been acted on soon after Chuck got them and in been sent to Washington and had copies made.

      • uplink2 says:

        Great comments and I agree with you. The disks were there because Sham wanted them there. Nothing else mattered to him. Not Chuck, not Sarah, not Casey remember he was still trying to get into Castle when Shaw was calling Langley at first. Not the civilians. nothing. Just his singular focus of protecting his desire for vengeance. Of all the spies we have seen, he was the worst. But we were told otherwise. Too bad what they showed us was something completely different.

      • Tamara Burks says:

        Another good bit in Beard is that Jeff actually saved Casey’s life and probably wouldn’t remember it when he woke up.

        One of my personal explanantions for Shaw’s incompetance was that he earned his position through family influence and possibly blackmail. The only thing he excelled at was causing trouble and stealing Sarah’s brain. For example when he shot Sydney Prince he could have aimed for the arm or the shoulder to stop her from throwing the knife instead of in the back if he was any kind of decent shot (we only saw him shoot 3 times , himself and two full body shots with Sydney and Papa B) and then tried to mine her for info since she was known for recruiting agents to the Ring. I can’t imagine anyone not trying to take her in if there was any chance and find out who she’d turn. That seemed to me to be the first huge indicator that he was terrible at his job.

        And my strange litle evil plot bunny for post season 3 has it come out that Shaw altered the reports so that everything that he did wrong was attributed to Chuck and what Chuck did to fix it was attributed to Shaw. Because otherwise how can you explain why people kept kissing Shaw’s butt and calling him an Amercan Hero and that they thought so little of Chuck.

      • atcDave says:

        I don’t even know what you guys are talking about. I remember nothing between Chuck downloading 2.0 and Chuck and Sarah running away together on a train from Paris!!!

      • joe says:

        Ah, the magic of Brain Bleach! 😉

      • atcDave says:

        Funny I said exactly opposite things on two different threads! For the record, I was kidding on this one (as if you all didn’t know!)

      • Verkan_Vall says:

        Just ignore Season 3 folks. It was amoral slop: badly plotted and poorly scripted. As Old Darth has said elsewhere, it all comes down to the writing, and the writing for season 3 failed miserably where it mattered the most: to entertain the audience.

        And it makes season 4 impossible, which is why I ignore it.

        @Tamara: spot on with your comments. Every single fan I know from the first two seasons has said the same thing about Sarah Walker in episodes 3.1 to 3.13: it isn’t the same character from S1&2, it is someone else. This isn’t a knock against Yvonne Strahosvski; I think she did a great job with suicidal scripts. But there is just so much even great actors can do with a bad script.

        Even now, I’m not sure if the writers or TPTB understand that a great cast can magnify the impact of a script.

      • Tamara Burks says:

        Maybe she was possessed by a ghost during that time the Olivia just was in Fringe . Doesn’t ringe have the most unique ways to keep a couple apart? They don’t settle for normal problems , they have trapped on another world while your doppelganger sleeps with your guy, the trauma from that and now possession by way of a bell.

      • Tamara Burks says:

        Oh and they still don’t know the doppelganger is knocked up.

  17. herder says:

    I was thinking about which episodes would be useful to rewatch in advance of monday’s show, I was thinking maybe First Date as it has Casey setting out to kill Chuck or Tic Tac for the debt of gratitude that he might owe or even Dream Job for spy suprises. One thing that I though was the tendancy of this season to redo some of the issues of last season, that brought me to Subway/Ring Part II, that was co-written by Phil Klemmer and had the issue of intersect vs intersect. Might they want to revisit that issue in a different way this time (obviously sans Shaw), or is the issue similar to that of American Hero in that Chuck realizes that being the intersect and a spy is not enough if he isn’t with the ones he loves – in American Hero it was that he needed Sarah, now it might be that he needs Casey – although it would have to be a pretty good arguement for me to want to rewatch American Hero.

    In Wookie Sarah spoke of the existential spy crisis of who you are, for Chuck the existential crisis seems to be who he is with, but here it seems to be bleeding a bit into his uniqueness as a spy that gives him the leeway to do things his own way. And lets be honest, Chuck has always done things his own way the times he has become lost has been when he tried to do things the “company” way, but he has always had the fall back that as the only intersect he could get away with doing things his way because he was the sole intersect and because he got results. That was the upshot of Broken Heart, Predator and Subway.

    Any ideas of what would be a good episode to rewatch leading up to A-Team?

    • atcDave says:

      All of them. Starting now…

    • Tamara Burks says:

      Except any Sham episodes.

    • Faith says:

      Couch Lock and Colonel are my pick. Colonel because the perception of Casey within the episode itself changes mid-show. From the guy that betrays his team by hunting them down to the one that was actually heartbroken for being excluded–well heartbroken is the wrong word but you know what I mean. Couch lock because you get a b-team versus what is supposed to be an a-team.

      • Tamara Burks says:

        I loved how Casey (the king of hating lady feelings0 managed to emote while paralyzed plus that Jeffster came to the rescue just because he needed it and how Jeff knew that dumpster.

    • thinkling says:

      I think Tic Tac is interesting because of the loyalty Chuck and Sarah show Casey, but also the Intersect stuff. The Gretas may be more like Chuck on laudenal … the original ideal, which is obviously far from ideal.

  18. herder says:

    Looking at the promo a couple of things strike me (yes I know that it is 15 seconds and not a lot can be drawn from that) first is that Chuck seems to be kicking at Wrestler lady Greta with Sarah in the background. This is a departure for Chuck, normally he is loath to hit girls, there must be some overwhelming provocation for him to strike.

    The second is that Casey seems to be there when he does it, suprising to say the least, I can see Casey having a competing team but for it to go so far as physical action against Chuck when he is present seems out of character. The third thing is that it seems to show both Lady Wrestler Greta and Old Spice Greta flashing which seems to confirm the “now that they can do the same” means that they can flash too.

    The use of the word “indespensable” may lead to the thing that many of us have commented upon, is there something about Chuck that allows him to be the intersect that is unique to him or is it a trait that a select number of others might share. Or is it that he can be the intersect for an extended period of time without going insane when others will -ahem- Shaw. I like this type of promo, lots of room for speculation without giving away the whole story.

    • Tamara Burks says:

      I want a longer promo darn it.

      One think I think is interesting,shouldn’t the Gretas only need the first Intersect version that we saw (info only-the first actual Intersect version was when Chuck was a child) since they are supposed to be such highly trained assassins.

      • James Bond says:

        Well I think that the abilities are supposed to be more then just fighting. If the show had the budget the would include:

        1) Car racing abilities.
        2) Tantric sex abilities
        3) Languges
        4) Motorbike, helicopter piloting, airplane piloting.
        5) Shooting

        and a whole hosts of abilities that are just outside the shows budget. I mean this show cannot even afford to do an on location shoot, lol. it is all sets!

      • Tamara Burks says:

        Sounds like stuff they are already supposed to be able to do.

      • James Bond says:

        Are you kidding? Real spies can do about half that, they may speak like 3-4 languages max and you have to remember that the intersect is a machine a computer and so does everything perfectly!

  19. James Bond says:

    I picked this up from a comment section on a fringe article. Looks like we are not alone in hating what happened to sarah in season 3…….@The problem with fringe is the same problem I had with CHUCK. That is I get that olivia and chuck are their respective shows but the way the show runners treat the other lead characters particularly sarah and peter is just ridiculous. CHUCK used sarah as a plot device throughout the whole of season 3 just so they could get chuck to be a spy. Fringe has left out peter in half the episodes, they are using this romance with olivia to amp up the tension for end of the season and that is a shame, because if you want a romance to exist between two characters then you want better then what we are getting. I mean this episode was just a setup, they talked about getting closer the whole episode but we never saw them getting closer, they are only getting closer so it is harder for peter to make a decision when the time comes between our olivia and the other olivia who is pregnant. It is sad when a show just trashes a character to serve the plot for the lead character and it is why both CHUCK and fringe are bubble shows, fans are not willing (except hardcore ones) to commit to a show that does this to characters they like.”

    It looks like a lot of shows do this to amp up the tension and fringe is doing it even badder then chuck did.

    • OldDarth says:

      Totally disagree.

      I watch both shows and Fringe is doing a fantastic job with their characters. The show focus has only recently expanded to encompass the Pete and Olivia relationship.

      Fringe honors its back story and continuity – things planted in the first season are paying off now – about the best any TV show has ever done.

      Most importantly the characters talk to each other like real people. There has been zero angst on Fringe.

      The reason Peter has not been in some episodes has been organically set up and has never been about creating angst.

      • James Bond says:

        I kind of see where the commenter is coming from OD, the fact is Olivia came back from the other side and said I cannot stand to look at you (Peter) because the other Olivia was with him, to now it is ok! in what 3 episodes or something like that. That makes her whole speech false if her feelings are not played out for a whole season….hence that is angst. Ok here is another example, they made a huge, huge, huge deal out of peter being from the other side, we see walter stuggle with it all the time. When Peter found out the truth him going over there and coming back was played out in 2 episodes! I am sorry but even the season 2 finale had mostly walter and olivia…this was peters story, his moment yet he had hardly any screen time and they used a romantic setup that came out of nowhere to bring him back to our side. I mean what a couple of cultural references missed and he does not believe that he belongs on that side, he is willing to break his real mums heart again just to go back…..that makes peter unsympthetic and unlikable and the show runnes do this to push the story along.

      • armysfc says:

        OD question for you. how is this good…things planted in the first season are paying off now – about the best any TV show has ever done. so it’s good that a show is getting to things left open from the first season fleshed out in season three? going by what you just said, all the open plot holes you claim chuck has this year should be forgiven till season six. that’s two seasons from now. so my question is why do they bother you?

        i watched the first season of fringe, and dropped it early during season 2.

      • Jake says:

        Also in chuck casey and chuck’s characters are normally well preserved just like walter and olivia’s but sarah and peter’s are used to move the shows forward and that is what makes the shows hardcore based. I mean peter has gone from being a kind of smart maverick to now holding the fate of the world in his hands and that fate depends on a romance that feels forced and is all exposition…..who cares about the fate of the universe then? It is a terrible setup!

      • OldDarth says:

        Army its good because in Fringe if something happens, it really happens and carries consequences in perpetuity.

        Chuck creates mythology on a whim to fulfill story requirements for one episode and then almost always drops it.

        JB, disagree. Olivia’s emotional state after she came back was understandable and not contrived. Her experiences on the other side while the other Olivia was here created understandable consequences that the show properly explored.

        Now if Olivia had come back and said I cannot stand to look at you (Peter) because the other Olivia was with him and then went and started seeing someone else, that is angst.

        Olivia worked through her issues, came out the other side, was able to get past it and started seeing Peter. That is not angst. That is drama and good story telling.

        Jake, you find the Fringe story line bad? Guess you find the storyline from LOTR where little hobbits have to go into enemy territory and destroy an evil talisman with nothing but the bonds of friendship and love between Frodo and Sam as their sole source of strength pretty terrible too.

      • uplink2 says:

        @Army,
        I will agree with OD here even though I have never watched Fringe. The idea of stories planted in season 1 paying off in season 3 is exactly what many Chuck fans hoped for with the Name Reveal and why it is such a hated sore subject for me and many others. We invested in the idea that Sarah’s real name was Chuck’s and only Chuck’s to hear. It started in Wookie, was reinforced in Break up and again in a way in Cougars and DeLorean. The fact that Ali Adler decided to throw it away so cheaply for no real story benefit except one meaningless mention by Sham to demean Sarah in Subway is one of the most hated examples of a show not honoring its back story, or its fans, I can think of. Chuck is also notorious for not being great with continuity. It is one of its most common problems until this season really when it has done far less of that.

        I want a show like Chuck to honor its backstory and give the fans the payoffs they plant the seeds of when their fans invest in the show. When Chuck doesn’t like it has done too often in the past it bothers me. Maybe I’ll have to start watching Fringe then as that I feel is high praise for a show.

      • Ernie Davis says:

        So OD, just out of curiosity, can I come on your Fringe podcast and talk about Chuck and how Fringe fails to deliver the fun Chuck does?

      • James Bond says:

        OD Olivia worked through her issues in like a couple of episodes….she needed more time then that! just like the end of chuck season 3.0 they spent 11 episodes setting up that chuck was changing and all these little things like him lieing, torturing casey, beating people up (Tic tac – at times unemotionally) and when it came to it sarah was bothered at the time but it was swept under the carpet as you did not kill therefore you are still my chuck and the rest did not matter even though it mattered enough for me to run to shaw and tell him my real name? WTF?

      • James Bond says:

        In a way you get a sense that the writers on both shows have a really great idea where their lead characters are going in this case chuck and olivia and they are excited to tell that story and it shows because their stories are compelling and excellent but as soon as they try and focus on the other characters the time and prep has not been put in and it comes off as ill concieved and badly written. If your going to tell a story do not half ass it, with any of your characters, because then it loses it’s impact, I mean seriously does anyone really care what is going to happen when peter gets put into that machine, based on the premise of what will make him destroy either universe?

      • armysfc says:

        uplink OD, see i think you guy miss the point. if something was dropped this year why cant they bring it back in the future? no show is perfect they all have inherent defects. i do agree chuck ads stuff just to make things work, morgans yoga in 4.13 is a good example.

        Uplink, i personally could care less about the name revel. it’s a friggin name. putting such a high value on it just boggles my mind. i have a question about this statement you made…”I want a show like Chuck to honor its back story and give the fans the payoffs they plant the seeds of when their fans invest in the show.” how will you feel about the show after monday when we find out for sure the gretas are intersects? isn’t the main foundation of chuck being an agent the intersect? we know from 4.08 he is a dud with out it. we have been preached to for three years how important he is because of it. now they can mass produce them? i will bet dollars to doughnuts that ellie had a hand in making it work.

        if you think the name reveal was bad where will this rate? are you going to be outraged that they used the intersect as a plot device again or won’t it matter? i know ill be displeased with it.

      • weaselone says:

        In regards to Chuck’s changing, while I think it was made clear he was coming of age in the spy world, what we saw and what Sarah saw was obviously different. What we saw was Chuck overcome the challenges and moral depravity of the spy world and ultimately retain his core values. He may have burned his asset and tortured Casey, but Chuck’s asset wasn’t like Chuck and Casey granted Chuck permission. We saw him start to go somewhat astray, but he pulled himself back following the Hannah arc. Sarah, apparently never saw that. She didn’t see until the end of episode 13 what the fans, Casey, Ellie and Morgan saw.

        Chuck’s journey back from the dark side was handled over multiple episodes. Sarah just didn’t buy a clue until the end of that transition. By that point there was nothing left but for her to recognize what every other character on Chuck already knew. Once that was accomplished, their wasn’t really any other need to dedicate more episodes to it.

      • uplink2 says:

        @Army the name reveal was so much more than just a name. It is the most personal and intimate thing for a spy. Much more intimate than sex is. And if it was done to not show they had sex and not violate the unwritten Sarah Walker rule, well the blew it even more then because they alluded to that as well shortly thereafter. Sham got it all. He got the name and he had sex with her before Chuck. Hey either it bothered you or it didn’t. Its just how you look at the show. But for me at least it was a betrayal of both the characters and the implied contract with the audience and it was just thrown away for nothing but soap opera melodrama.

        As far as the Gretasects go they ARE Intersects. The new promos both version 2 and the new one tonight confirm it. But that fits with the back story because others have always been trying to make their own Intersects and all have failed just as these ones will. They are flawed, we know that already. Chuck will prove once again that he is special. Heck he beat Sham without the governor that Sham was wearing. This fits just fine in that back story.

      • uplink2 says:

        But at least Chuck gets to marry her and all Sham got in the end were 3 bullets, a pipe to the head and a life of insanity from a malfunctioning Intersect.

      • armysfc says:

        @uplink he has to be special for one reason only. same as casey living after the fall, none of them dying after injuries. its the show. this is the point i have been trying to make forever it seems. there is no suspense at all. you can still have all the relationship stuff, the comedy but ad a good plot that ads some mystery to the show. right now only vivian does that. by them telling us the gretasects are flawed, where is the worry about chuck getting made obsolete?

        you brought up soap opera in you post. in basic terms isn’t that what a wt/wt all about? a soap opera within a show? castle, bones and chuck all run it or ran it. it just happens that more people watching chuck got sucked into the soap opera than on other shows. look at alex/morgan. do you know how many people post on other boards and forums stating how mad they will be if anything goes wrong with that relationship? chuck is slowly turning into more of a soap than other shows.

        as for the real name think back to the pilot. if keeping the name secret why did sarah know bryces real name? i may have forgot bits of it but i don’t remember grahm telling her his name. didn’t casey even know it? if i’m right doesn’t that dispel the theory how special it is? or does that only apply to sarah because we want it to mean more? i am just curious about it. also think about this, if she changed her name so often as we are lead to believe how come every time she meets old friends, no matter from how far back they call her sarah or agent walker? maybe that’s her real name and has been all along?

      • James Bond says:

        Army the reason that the name thing is such a massive thing for fans is because the series made it so. Back in Wookie chuck begged sarah to tell him one thing about herself and she refused. The only reason he learnt about her dad or high school was because of missions, not a voluntary act by sarah herself. Now we are to believe that she at that point would reveal for the first time something voluntary about herself it would not be to the man she loved but to a man that she barely knew! Come on! Also that is or was not sarah, sarah does not just open up to anyone not even Bryce and they dated! Sarah barely knew Shaw! The only reason that she did that was because the writers wanted to amp up the tension and it was a cheap and easy way to do it and it’s sole purpose was to push chuck further down a path that was not well established why he was going down in the first place (prague train station!).

      • Big Kev says:

        JB et al,
        The point of Fake Name was to demonstrate how lost and broken Sarah was without Chuck – and that she was using Shaw as a defacto Chuck substitute. What better way to do that than to take something that Sarah (and us) knew was precious to Chuck (and us) and have her give it away cheaply?
        I agree completely that broken Sarah was a poor story choice and not one that I wanted to watch – but in the context of that story, her name reveal made perfect sense. It illustrated exactly the point it was meant to.
        The issue is with the original story choice, not with the way that Ali Adler wrote that episode.

      • jason says:

        @Ernie in fairness to OD he did not bring up fringe, he just responded. In a sure sign of the Apocalypse, I am going to have to agree with OD on fringe, I think it has done the character wt/wt fairly well, I expected far worse when olivia returned to find alt olivia had taken her man and peter became a covert assassin (of aliens).

        But, the last ep really pulled Fringe out of the fire for me – it is the ep that season 3 Chuck did not have, an ep that put some sanity salve on the open wounds that the creative team sliced open throughout the chuck fandom in the first 13 eps. Instead, it seemed like starting in the apartment in 3×13, TPTB simply gave up, put chuck and sarah together, without any real reason, other than sarah always loved chuck and chuck always loved sarah. Then, just as the wound was starting to heal, the acidic shaw character was brought back to reopen and infect the wounds of season 3’s misery.

        Too bad really, as the season 3 spy story really wasn’t all that bad, it simply got overpowered by the chuck sarah relationship story telling failure. OD, we often fight over the thing that drives chuck, my last sentence would be my proof that the chuck & sarah relationship drives the series, not the spy story.

        Interesting thing for me, is both castle and fringe seemingly learned quite a bit from the shaw misery season. Last night fringe had an eerily similar to no secrets no lies pact / game going on that was done quite well, and castle’s beckett has had an affair all season long OFFSCREEN, which seems to only have amped up the on screen passion between castle and beckett. Plus, neither show seems particularly concerned at all with the notion of a moonlighting curse, obviously fringe isn’t, and seems like castle isn’t going to be either.

      • OldDarth says:

        Jason – ‘Too bad really, as the season 3 spy story really wasn’t all that bad, it simply got overpowered by the chuck sarah relationship story telling failure. OD, we often fight over the thing that drives chuck, my last sentence would be my proof that the chuck & sarah relationship drives the series, not the spy story.’

        We are using different words to say the same thing. Yes the relationship is the heart of the show. It is the compass or GPS that guide the viewers about the character growth. But the spy story is the framework, the superstructure, the highway and roads that support the relationship. The better constructed the spy story the better the drive is for the relationship. A spy story that is built with dips and curves pushes relationships more providing for more engrossing relationship stories.

        The spy story should be a paved road with no potholes and built to last so that we know that previous trips through a story arc landscape have been preserved thus giving us confidence that honest relationship trips can happen. A spy story that is nothing more than a ill defined sandy or snowy trail through a constantly changing landscape diminishes relationship trips because their actions are drifted over or totally obscured and lost.

      • Big Kev says:

        Sorry – meant to reply here but ended up in the wrong place a bit further down!

      • joe says:

        JB, Army, Weasel, I think there’s a nuance about the name-reveal that’s being missed. I’m not sure it’ll make you feel any better, though.

        I don’t think Sarah kept her name from Chuck as a matter of intimacy at all. It was a matter of professionalism. She had a wall built high between her professional life as a spy and everything else. In fact, before Chuck (BC) there *was* nothing else.

        AC, there was the spy world (which included Bryce, Casey, Cole, Shaw…) and then there was Chuck’s world. She wanted desperately to have that other world exist and even to be part of it if she could. But she couldn’t. Shaw, like Bryce, was a spy and telling him the name meant nothing. To tell her name to Chuck meant bringing him into her spy world, the last thing she wanted. It was not her going into “the real world”.

        Telling Shaw was not really an intimate act like it would have been with Chuck. Opportunity lost, not ruined, because Chuck was drawn into the spy world so completely that he lost himself.

      • weaselone says:

        Joe, I disagree. Sarah’s real name wasn’t part of the spy life, it was part of her real life. Before the spy life, before the cons, she was Sam. The reveal of Lisa in Wookie made it quite cleat that she invested weight in the name. It’s also made clear the act of providing it isn’t trivial. She doesn’t go around telling to every spy she meets. If the name is no big deal, she would have just told Chuck at the end of Wookie to make him happy.

        It’s made clear he real name is kept separate from her spy life in vs. the DeLorean. Even Graham doesn’t actually voice the name on her birth certificate. He invites her into the spy world and bequeaths her the name Sarah Walker. At that point she becomes Sarah Walker. In the spy world, even when she isn’t operating under a different world, she is still Sarah Walker. Her real name isn’t a part of that world. That she would tell other spies that name is the equivalent of Vader insisting the command staff on the Executor refer to him as Anakin.

      • weaselone says:

        *sighs*
        cleat=clear
        world=alias

      • Joseph (can't be Joe) says:

        Sorry Joe,

        Opportunity lost – Yes.
        Opportunity ruined – Most definitely. There is no excuse.

        It is necessary for us to rationalize away the name reveal as having no significance. Because if she had given her real name to Chuck it would have been very significant – better than DYLM, “You are my home” and “My answer would be yes”.

        It was there for the taking and it was completely thrown away & wasted. Because of the set up in Wookie, in that instance we, the fans, are Chuck. We want to know. With the way it was done I would rather never have known at all. Outstanding TV!

        It also really throws a wrench into the possibility of meeting Mom and reduces the likelyhood of ever meeting her. Should mom show up I honestly think they’ll treat like it never happened and mom will call her Sarah. It would certainly be less of a minefield had she never revealed her name or had done so to Chuck.

        I’m guess I’m still passionate about the name reveal because it was the point where I started caring less about the Sarah Walker character. My “love” for the character hasn’t returned.
        Mostly because there was never any discussion about he misery arc between Chuck & Sarah before DYLM was used to sweep it away.

        (And I said I was giving up S3 for Lent)

      • First Timer says:

        @joe, @weasel:
        I have to go with Weaselone on this. The Sarah character is even given dialogue in the episode explaining that the name IS important to her. This was big stuff to the Sarah character and we are supposed to take it as such.

        Four on the other hands, though:
        1) As Liz James so astututely noted in her piece on Sarah-Shaw, the name reveal FAILS because Chuck had disavowed any interest in Sarah’s past life. After Cougars, he never asked or cared. Doesn’t care after this episode, either. In fact, when they set up the “Sarah’s past” bits THIS season, Chuck specifically calls himself “Mr. Sarah Walker.” So the reveal, painful as it is for fans, DOESN’T matter to Chuck. Thus it fails as a substitute for him seeing Sarah and Shaw start a romance.

        2) As you guys so well dissected here when the episode aired, Fake Name was heavily rewritten and retooled. And it was clear that the Sarah name reveal was NOT in the original draft, otherwise the title would have been Fake Name from the start. (It was originally Chuck vs. The Nose.) I think, as she rewrote it, Adler tried to turn it into a game of identity politics. Is Chuck the Chuck we love or is he turning into Rafe Gruber? Is Casey the Casey we know or the then-unknown Alex? Is Sarah really Sarah or is she Sam? I think, out of desperation, Adler tried to craft the episode into one about who we are and who we say we are. It failed, unfortunately, mostly because it bore the weight of consummating the love trapezoid.
        3) I’ve never heard anyone say this: What if Adler’s point was that the Sarah character was now SOOOO confused that her real name is actually her FAKE name? My point: Sam may be the character’s birth name, but Sarah Walker is who the woman is now, even if she didn’t realize it in this episode or until Other Guy.
        4) Go to Ali Adler’s Twitter page. She is suddenly saying she thinks she should be involved in writing the wedding scene. I doubt she would EVER say that unless she has already hired on to work on the last episodes. There’d be no reason for her to embarrass the show runners like that. So my guess is that she’s already on board. So how about this: The final scene of 4.24 is the “I dos.” And what if Adler uses THAT scene to give us the now-unimportant “real” name. I mean, it could be Sarah interrupting Chuck when he says “I, Chuck Bartowski, take you, Sarah Walker.” Or they could start with Sarah, who says, “I, Samantha Elizabeth TK, take you, Charles Irving Bartowski.” Simple, tangential, yet effective in hitting the fans in the produce section…

      • Tamara Burks says:

        Sarah using fake names didn’t start with her life as a spy , it started in childhood with her father’s cons. So it was a personal issue not a professional one .

        She’s had trust issues her entire life because she would have been taught not to trust and to view everyone as a mark . Her real name is a deeply personal thing to tell someone. To tell meant that she trusted that person completely. Chuck tried to get her to tell her name to him and then switched to asking about her middle name as a way of getting her to open up a little , she said the middle name but whispered it so she had no way of knowing that she heard . In Cougars, she gave him a chance to ask something personal as a way of repaying him but that would have been akin to forcing her and he wanted it voluntarily . If he’d asked for her name then she would have resented it especially since being back at high school had opened some wounds.

        Chuck asked and was lucky to get a whispered middle name, Shaw asked and got her first name within minutes. It looked like Shaw had earned her trust more in a small amount of time than Chuck had in years and Shaw had done nothing to earn it.

        Plus there the differences between the Sham and Channah. Chuck didn’t give Hannah anything he was willing to give Sarah. Sarah, however gave Shaw what she had specifically denied Chuck. Not to mention you didn’t see any extreme trust given to Hannah (she didn’t know he was a spy) but Sarah trusted Shaw to the point of ridiculousness even after she was with Chuck .

        The issue of the name reveal still stands as of First Fight at the very least because of that line about Sarah only trusting people Beckman told her to trust.

        Plus there’s the issue of her having a legal wedding. Is Sarah Walker her legal name? If she never had it changed from the name on her birth certificate (and I doubt she did) than she needs to have either her birth name on the wedding license (no matter what name is said at the ceremony ) or get her name legally changed before the wedding. It makes sense for it to come back up when you think of that.

      • Tamara Burks says:

        First Timer just because Chuck never asked after Cougars doesn’t mean he never cared. To me it means he wants her to volunteer the info which would show that she trusted him and that he was special to her.

        Giving her name was an act of trust.
        And as for Chuck referring to himself as Mr Sarah Walker , Sarah Walker and her middle name is all she’s been willing to give him , what is he supposed to say Mr. Sam Lisa Unknown?

      • Tamara Burks says:

        Of course there is also the possibility that he started hitting the brain bleach after First Fight and doesn’t remember the name reveal.

      • First Timer says:

        @Tamara:
        Not that I would defend the Season 3 storyline for a second, but blaming the Sarah character for “giving” something to Shaw that she “denied” Chuck is a deliberate misreading of the canon. Season 3 starts with Sarah asking Chuck to run away with her. Chuck turns her down and the rest of the seasons is about each character pursuing other options before each other.

        If you EVER hope to come to peace with Season 3 (and I know it’s hard because it is so badly written) you MUST remember that the show runners specificallly put the decision not to be together on Chuck’s shoulders. Season 2 was about Sarah holding back. But Season 3 starts with Chuck choosing the spy life over being with Sarah.

        The failure of Season 3 is not Sarah “giving” things to Shaw that she denied Chuck. It was the unsaleable postulation that Chuck would abandon his dream of being with Sarah after just three weeks in a Prague spy school…

      • First Timer says:

        @Tamara:
        Again, on Chuck’s interest in Sarah’s past. It is a deliberate misreading of the canon to suggest that Chuck really has any serious interest. In Cougars, he specifically denies interest and uses a very plausible reason: He knows who she IS, not who she WAS.

        And once the name reveal is given, Chuck is puzzled, not hurt. And it has never come up again. There is NOTHING in any of the episodes from Cougars onward where Chuck expresses the slightest interest. That is one of the few things they have kept quite consistent. Chuck was done mucking about in Sarah’s pre-spy personal life from Cougars onward.

        That’s why the wording “Mr. Sarah Walker” is so important. He doesn’t say he wants to know more about “Sam.” He wants to know about Sarah’s spy life. Which is why the next episode is about the Cat Squad, not about Sarah’s personal life.

        I suspect that when we get any mom backstory or other personal stuff, it also won’t be by Chuck’s instigation. It’ll be volunteered by Sarah (that interesting stuff in Balcony) or by accident, which is how he found out about Jack Burton.

        But one of the things in canon the show runners have NEVER changed or revisited is Chuck’s Sherman statement on Sarah: He doesn’t care about who she was because he knows who she is.

        That is to be CELEBRATED, not dismissed. Do I want to see what kind of backstory they invent for Sarah? Absolutely. As I viewer, I really want to know. But I don’t want them having Chuck going back on such a wonderful sentiment that they let him express in Cougars. His statement there is one of the show’s very best moments.

      • uplink2 says:

        @FT and Joe, where can I find those discussions about how it was heavily rewritten and that the Name Reveal was not in the original draft? I’d love to read that. I saw something about the name change of the episode but that’s it.

        @Army They didn’t tell us that the Gretasects have a flaw, Magnus did. It was part of one of his teasers for the episode if that makes any difference to you. The lack of a dramatic impact comes from release of a spoiler and not by TPTB or NBC. Tough I would expect we all would guess that.

        Also they reinforced how significant the name reveal was in the great final scene of breakup. Chuck states that when he thought about them having a future and being together he says he realizes they can’t because “I’d still never know anything real about you, your real name, your hometown, your first love.” This reinforces the idea that what Chuck would only accept was the real. If he couldn’t have that then there would never be a future. And Sarah’s real name was the very first thing he says about only accepting the real. Without her real name, he had nothing but the fake and that was never acceptable to him long term. Sarah’s real name was the lynch pin of it being real for him. They may have said he didn’t need to know anything about who she was to maintain the relationship they had at the time of Cougars but it doesn’t negate the need to know it if they would ever have anything real. He treaded lightly there because he knew that was what she needed him to say to her. It was a gift he gave to her. But her real name we were told was at the heart of them being real and that makes it hugely important.

        Now they tried to give him that intimacy with the spy will and then minimize the name reveal with Shaw using it against her in Subway but those were written long before they saw the reaction from the fans. I just would love to know if there was any discussion of it in the writers room.

        Now they have backed themselves into a corner because of it. As the other Joe points out, if complicates Sarah’s mom being part of the show. I think they would rather just ignore it if they can and probably will but how do they deal with that? The marriage license can easily be explained away. Also I agree that there is a problem with there being 2 separate sets of rules for real names with Sarah and Bryce. But that is something this show does a lot.

        I think what bothers me the most about it is not only was it a betrayal to me the fan but that it became meaningless going forward. It was hugely important to many fans for 3 seasons and then just thrown away for nothing. We were told it was the most precious gift Sarah had to give to Chuck and it was thrown in the garbage.

        I got into a little Twitter discussion about Ali Adler’s twitter comment last night. I’m still not sure I know how to react to it if she does. What bothers me is I invested in her episodes more than any other writer. She was my favorite and there was a joy to watching her stuff. But in Fake Name she used what I loved about her episodes to spit in my face with so many aspects of it. I guess its a bit of once bitten twice shy going on for me. I know she reads what we post about her because she has responded when I have gotten into these discussions before. But I am also curious about why she even mentioned anything about it. It seems that people are already abandoning the NOF ship but is her contract up or does she have to wait till it is officially not renewed?

        I am also curious as to how fair is it to LeJudkins, Kristin Newman and the other writers to talk about her returning for what may be the series finale and a great chance to forever leave their mark on the show. So I’m not sure how I feel about it. She was my favorite but this moment still really hurts and I’m still having trouble letting go of it. But as some folks said last night redemption is a big part of this show and maybe her involvement might allow me to finally let that happen.

      • uplink2 says:

        @First Timer

        This quote form above I agree with as to the major point you aere trying to make.

        The failure of Season 3 is not Sarah “giving” things to Shaw that she denied Chuck. It was the unsaleable postulation that Chuck would abandon his dream of being with Sarah after just three weeks in a Prague spy school…

        The name reveal may be the most egregious aspect of them trying to sell an unsellable concept but you point is well taken and I agree with it.

        This also leads to why the Hannah story is just so unbelievable. We were shown an epic love that an honorable man like Chuck doesn’t minimize by sleeping with the first other woman who shows interest in him a couple of weeks after he told that person he loved them. It simply doesn’t happen or Chuck isn’t the man of honor we were told he was. How could he reconcile doing it in his head simply because she didn’t respond to him saying it? He had never given up on her for over 2 years and now all of a sudden he does? Its absurd and was doomed from the start.

      • joe says:

        @All Joe, I disagree. Sarah’s real name wasn’t part of the spy life, it was part of her real life. Before the spy life, before the cons, she was Sam.

        Ack! Unanimous! Well, I do understand, but I fear by the choice of words from everyone (well, almost 😉 ) that I’m not getting my point across.

        You see, there was NO name reveal of Lisa to Chuck. Sarah resisted that and pointedly DID NOT tell Chuck, not because she wanted to withhold something intimate, but because she wanted to protect him and keep him away from her world – the spy world. There was no “real” world of hers to bring him into. There was NO Sam Liza Burton (or whatever).

        I know that Sarah was tempted to tell him, but that was only because he asked. She was tempted much more to not tell him because it was dangerous and it would destroy the person he was, the real person she wanted. The whole point of S3 was that as far as Sarah was concerned, the real person Chuck had been was gone, lost to the spy world she no longer wanted, but was her prison.

        I certainly understand that her name was a big thing. But Sarah’s identity is much more important to us than it is to her (at least, BC, anyway). Carina told us that spies change identities like they change clothes, and Sarah got a head start on that with her father and the con’s life. From her, Shaw got nothing she thought important.

        Now I’m not going to be stubborn about this, but you see the problem here isn’t about intimacy or betrayal. It’s about the difference between their two worlds, what it means to each of them to say “I am.” To Sarah, it may not have been important, but to Chuck it certainly was. This is the dilemma that’s yet to be fully addressed (although Sarah’s insistence to Heather about it tells me that’s changing).

        Sarah’s going to have one more big chance to tell the world who she is. This time she will have to do that in Chuck’s world, or better, the one they make together.

      • First Timer says:

        @joe:
        Boy, I dunno. Much as I LOVE your positive reading of why Sarah never told Chuck her real name, it’s a stretch of the canon. The Wookie episode is all about what spies do to keep THEMSELVES safe. There’s nothing in the canon where Sarah says keeping Chuck from knowing about her name keeps HIM safe.

        Of course, all this name stuff is almost silly now. If Sarah were Sarah back in her Cat Squad days and Carina were Carina back in her Cat Squad days, why would they have to identify each other by cover name in Wookie. (The scene after the fight in Sarah’s apartment.) We are probably putting too much emphasis on this stuff anyway. Cause then you have to ask if Bryce Larkin was really Bryce Larkin, or, like Sarah, had a cover name by college. And why would Sarah so frequently be working as Sarah Walker… And, and, and…

        @uplink:
        Re: The stuff about Fake Name. You can find (probably on ChuckTV.net) the original casting call for Fake Name when it was called Chuck versus the Nose. The Rafe character originally had an Italian name (Frankie somthing) and was being cast as having a very close physical resemblance to Zac Levi. So it’s clear the original version of the script had the bad guys knowing the character that Chuck had to impersonate. Obviously, in the final script, no one had met the mysterious Rafe, which is why Chuck was able to impersonate him.

        Also, please don’t mix up your canon. Chuck’s speech about never knowing anything real about Sarah is in Break Up, episode 3. Cougars is episode 4. And when Sarah gives him the opportunity to learn something real, he declines because, having now seen some of her past, he no longer cares. That is progress. Then by Lethan Weapon, he DOES want Sarah and a life with her when he gets the Intersect out of his head.

        Part of what made Season 2 thrilling was watching how Chuck changes what he thinks he can have with Sarah. It starts (by accident, given the writer’s strike) in First Date with Chuck just trying for “one last night of fun” before Sarah leaves. Then he gives up on her in Break-Up, has his fling with and discards his past with Jill, then realizes he’ll do whatever it takes to be with Sarah as part of the real and normal life he is trying to reclaim.

      • Faith says:

        Joseph, you know you’re going to hell right? Lent is serious stuff ;). I’d give up talking about Fringe but then what would I use to hate on Chuck? 😛

        First Timer, at the risk of jumping into the deep dark pool that is S3, I agree with you. Whatever the season was it was to me one where Chuck’s actions had a ripple effect on everything and everyone, not just his fate and decisions, but others as well. Sarah most of all. I also agree that the name reveal was meant to illustrate her anchorless existence and honestly if Sh@w was a gay best friend instead of a creepy predator we’d all be a lot less frustrated. But I guess that’s the point, we were supposed to be unsettled.

        Uplink, it was you and I, and Kev and BDaddydl that were talking about Ali Adler returning last night. And to give you some background info, it felt to me/us (at least at the time to those living through chuckapocalypse) that she was pigeonholed into writing Fake Name and all that which Fake Name brings. Honestly I had less problem with Fake Name than Mask because even though the name reveal was frustrating, the episode itself was well written IMO. That said, you’re entitled to being uncertain of what having her back brings. Certainly cause for pause. I have enjoyed this year’s writers as well and I think they more than anyone would welcome Ali Adler returning for a wedding write up.

        Well I’ve drowned, where’s a lifeguard when you need him.

      • atcDave says:

        An excellent and really LONG discussion here guys! I’m sure I’ll shock everyone by mainly agreeing with Uplink. I think it is a credit to Chuck’s character that he let Sarah off the hook for all background issues in Cougars. But that doesn’t the diminish the betrayal of VIEWER trust that the name reveal involved. They set up a good story hook way back in 1.04 (just look at how hot this issue was in fan fiction from that point forward, long before Fake Name came along) and then flushed it down the toilet in Fake Name.
        I think the issue remained important to fans even after Chuck absolved Sarah of responsibility on it because it was still a symbol of intimacy and what was real. Given that the way we respond to the characters on Chuck is generally more important to most of us than the spy stories this was a far worse problem than various Intersect contrivances, especially since we can already guess no matter how hard other folks try to come up with their own human Intersect, Chuck will remain the only fully functioning Intersect for the duration of the series.
        I don’t see Sarah Walker’s LEGAL name as being an issue of any real consequence. She can simply state her name has legally been Sarah Walker since, well whatever milestone they want to throw out there. Mom can even be handled easily with a throw away line of “so what are you even calling yourself these days?” We can all guess that by the end of 4.24 “Sarah Bartowski” is the only name that will matter in the future.
        The wasted opportunity was purely a matter of respecting the fans. I suspect they thought they were being clever and unpredictable, and if they had it to do over all of S3 would have looked much different.

      • Tamara Burks says:

        The first major screwup they did for Season 3 was Prague. In the Ring 1 , we got Bryce telling Chuck that Sarah wasn’t leaving with him and Chuck getting his hopes in regard to that , which is why he looked so crushed when Sarah freaks out when they start dragging Bryce’s body away.

        Then with Prague we get Sarah basically asking him to do something that was impossible. We never get any showing that Sarah asks that she’s asking him to give up his family, friends and future. The first two of which she knows that has been his reasons for being panicky about going into a bunker. Plus they would spend thier lives running from people she told him they couldn’t run from.

        He says no and she breaks off all contact with him even to the point of destroying her phone when he tries to contact her (and who knows how many times her tried before that) . It comes off as a my way or the highway kind of attitude. Not to mention it looks like Chuck was the default guy after Bryce’s death (and that Bryce was wrong about her going with him) .

        Unfortunately Chuck appearing to be the default guy was repeated with Shaw. While we saw her packing to be with Chuck, Chuck never saw that. He saw that she never showed , never called and when he went looking for her she was with Shaw . She then showed up at his place after she found out she killed Shaw’s wife. So for him there was no point at which she chose Bryce or Shaw over him. Even after that she trusted Shaw when no sensible person would and then later wore the earrings Shaw gave her (she should have waited at least a year before wearing them or sold them outright) .

        TPTB should have invited some fans in to read the scripts (after making them sign to secrecy) . After the first chorus of “what are you, high” we would have gotten Hannah as just someone to make Sarah jealous instead of a woman Chuck hurt and Shaw would have been the mentor to Chuck he was supposed to be .

      • uplink2 says:

        @Faith That was an interesting discussion last night. Well as interesting as a discussion in 140 characters can be. I just find it very curious she would comment like she did. She has posted when I have had discussions about this subject before but all she did was reply to our Twitter names with nothing said. I took it as letting us know she was reading it.

        I think that one of my problems with Fake Name and why to this day I hate it with a passion is it was well written from the perspective she may or may not have been pigeon holed into. That is why I found it so offensive. She used what I loved about her work against me. I found it offensive and a betrayal of that bond and investment between writer and viewer.

        As far as her being pigeon holed or the story being forced on her by TPTB I don’t really buy it. She is also an executive producer on the show and as such is most definitely a significant part of the decision that led her to be “pigeon holed”. I think that is just some folks trying to give her the benefit of the doubt because they like her work so much and let her off the hook. But that is the point I’m trying to make above. Some people find it difficult to believe that Ali Adler would have written that episode that way if she had had a choice but there is no evidence of that being the case as far as I have seen. She was an integral part of the decision making process because she wasn’t just the writer, she was an executive producer and therefore directly responsible for the choices made. She is part of TPTB. Maybe Scwedak have final say but I don’t believe she just did what she was told. It may have been her decision all along. And that is where much of my apprehension about her coming back stems from.

      • Joseph (can't be Joe) says:

        But Sarah’s identity is much more important to us than it is to her (at least, BC, anyway).

        Exactly, it is more important to us, in this instance we, the fans ARE Chuck. Which is why US never getting the payoff tryly sucks rocks.

      • atcDave says:

        Uplink I don’t think the Executive Producer title means much in this case. Schwartz and Fedak are the Show Runners and make all the major decisions about direction of the show, so most of what went wrong with S3 has to be laid purely on them.

        Now that said, I would guess Adler could have found another way to handle the name reveal. My guess would be she was trusted to handle this episode because, exactly as you stated, she was trusted by a certain portion of the fan base. But I would expect that influence to work both ways, and had she been thinking of maintaining the integrity of the character she would have certainly told her bosses there was not a good way to reveal the name in the current context. At the time, much of our speculation was that the name reveal would be Sarah communicating to Chuck that he should still trust her and what he thought was going on between her and Shaw was not real. Of course, what we got was the exact opposite of that. A middle ground should have been found.

        On the other hand, they never should have gotten into that mess…

        Maybe in S5 we’ll find out that 3.01-3.13 was a complete alternate reality; and our Chuck and Sarah did run straight from the 2.0 chamber to the Paris train station!!! (yeah I’m being stupid on purpose)

      • uplink2 says:

        One other thing to remember about Ali, she is most definitely aware of what the audience holds near and dear to them. What little Easter eggs and special things theyprize in the show. She is the person responsible for the fans investment in the bracelet and why it reappears in her episodes. She has even tweeted to people to look for it in certain episodes, Honeymooners for example.

        She had to have known how this would be seen by the fans. She is just too good at her job to not know that. Unless they were all under some huge illusion that Schwartz tried to get the fans to buy into with “its gonna be great” and “you are gonna love to hate him” comments. If they didn’t know what the reaction would be then they really don’t know their audience or just don’t care. But here was a case where even if you do something well and the fans reject it then you have still failed.

      • First Timer says:

        So here, IMHO, was Adler’s dilema with Fake Name: Show a scene of Sarah and Shaw in heat on the floor or on the bed. Or use the name reveal.

        Maybe she guessed wrong. But if they went with Sarah and Shaw in situ how many “They destroyed Colonel!” comments would there be?

        My problem with Fake Name was that Adler was CLEARLY annoyed that fans (before S3, starting from Comicon) were against the arc. Thus the Charah shot from Jeff and the WT/WT crack from the Paulie Walnuts parody character.

        She had a tough choice to make in the story. It was probably no win. But then she compounded it by taking some gratuitous shots at the fans’ most loved beliefs. That was the mistake of Fake Name. It wasn’t just the storyline that was sure to annoy us. It was the taunting…

      • atcDave says:

        Yeah Uplink you hit on sort of an essential truth. It doesn’t matter by what objective standard you think you’ve created a masterpiece. If the audience rejects it you’ve failed.

        Alright folks, Chuck’s on tomorrow! It’s a new episode, and this is S4 not S3. Think happy thoughts!

      • atcDave says:

        First Timer I agree with that entirely. I remember laughing and being offended at the same time. Of course I’ll never watch that episode again, for what its worth. I just saw the whole episode as a giant FU to fans. I know she’s a good writer and could do some more good episodes of Chuck if she really gets a chance. But how many people really get to return to job after flipping off their customers?

      • uplink2 says:

        @First Timer. BINGO!!!!!!

        I agree completely that there is so much more to why I hate Fake Name than just the name reveal. That was just the biggest lugie she spit in my face. But her attempts at being clever and humorous were an insult to me and a significant portion of the fanbase. Couple that with her turning Chuck into a complete a-hole that I despised in both the scene in Castle acting like a highschool kid that just got laid in front of the women he clearly still loved and disregarding her feelings, something they told us Chuck never did, to how he broke up with Hannah in front of her parents in an incredibly despicable way. Why were they so intent on getting me to hate the characters at the heart of the show?

        Why was that the only choice? Have them get it on or reveal her name? To get him to realize his feelings for her? When was that ever a problem for him before? Then she compounds it by having Sarah do nothing while Chuck is getting pummeled by Shaw on the floor and she ends up insulting the fans once more by having Sarah share what she learned from Chuck, Sizzling Shrimp, with Shaw in Castle before they start to get it on.

        Where were these annoyed comments after Comicon? I’d like to read those as well. I heard about her saying, “just calm down and enjoy the show you love” well the problem was we weren’t enjoying it anymore.

    • OldDarth says:

      ‘So OD, just out of curiosity, can I come on your Fringe podcast and talk about Chuck and how Fringe fails to deliver the fun Chuck does?’

      As noted above, the Fringe tangent was not started by me. As to your podcast request sure. But the thing is, Fringe does deliver the fun. Walter is often hilarious.

    • Big Kev says:

      I’m going to agree with OD but put it a different way.
      Chuck is a spy show. That’s the genre TPTB have chosen as the canvas on which the relationships are painted. Its also (usually) the spy world that presents the challenges that Chuck and Sarah overcome – and through overcoming, grow as characters in the way that we all love.
      If at least part of that spy world isn’t taken seriously, or doesn’t deliver a compelling story, then the growth obtained through that world means nothing. If the challenges aren’t interesting and authentic at some level, then overcoming them means nothing – and the character growth doesn’t feel earned.
      At it’s simplest – why write a spy show if you’re not going to take those stories at least vaguely seriously? You may as well just write a sitcom set in the Casa Bartowski apartment complex.
      This show is at it’s best when it honors the world that it’s chosen to set itself in.

      • jason says:

        @kev – that is just it, the show is set in a parody of a spy story – which the show might need to be true to, with real human relationship stories – which the show MUST BE TRUE TO. Now I will grant you, the more the spy story makes sense, the better, but the villain actors are not scary, they are funny. And what failed in season 3, is the writing was not true to the relationship story, exactly what the show must stay true to.

        All you guys love dalton, I know you do, can you honestly say he was being serious? My goodness, he was hamming it up on that set so much, just watch him sometime, just him, he is fooling around. So was chevy chase. The only guys who didn’t were shaw and justin, and honestly, how did that work?

      • Tamara Burks says:

        Dalton was great as a villian in Hot Fuzz too. If he ever wants to be a Bond villian he’d do great as an old school villian who straps Bond to a machine with a laser crreping towards his privates and strokes his cat while he watches.

      • atcDave says:

        Yeah Tamara, that would be awesome! Especially if he gets to throw out some line about the only good Bond being that guy they dumped for Pierce Brosnan!

      • Faith says:

        So Dave, over at the boards we’ve been discussing possible actors to play Sarah’s mother and we’re thinking Bond girls…whose your pick?

        I’m partial towards Lynda Carter even though she’s not a Bond girl but for Bond girls I’ll go with Tanya Roberts, or even Jane Seymour.

      • atcDave says:

        How about Halle Berry.

        Okay, maybe not. There aren’t too many tall athletic blonde Bond Girls of the right age. And I’m sorry about Tanya Roberts, but she’s a terrible actress. Maybe Kim Basinger, although Never Say Never Again is only barely a Bond film. (Actually, the more I think about it I like that choice. It would get Chuck some good buzz too!)

      • herder says:

        If she were only a bit older I would go with Jerri Ryan ( Seven of Nine) there is a strong physical resemblence, but given her age she would have to have given birth to Sarah at 13.

      • Faith says:

        She plays a really good ditzy bimbo. Heh.

        It has to be age appropriate. I said something about Meg Ryan but I think she’s still too young. Also not a bond girl. Hmm. Kim Basinger, didn’t know she was a bond girl, that would work.

      • herder says:

        Bond girls only? Miryam D’Abo, she was the one in Living Daylights and her twin sister was the the sister on Wonder years. Blond, vaguely east european looking, don’t know how physical she could play though, might still be a bit young, she’d be late fourties now.

      • atcDave says:

        Yeah she was in Never Say Never Again; which was an unauthorized remake of Thunderball (20th Century Fox never had the rights to Bond, but they hired one of the original scriptwriters from Thunderball who DID have rights to the script! It got held up in court for a few years, but Fox eventually got to make a one time only non-Broccoli Bond film).

      • atcDave says:

        Miryam d’Abo is pretty small I think. She’d be dwarfed by Yvonne!

      • jason says:

        jeri ryan looks plenty old, or can look plenty old, especially given gary cole is not that old looking either, is he? sarah at times in seaason 1 thru 3 acted so like 7 of 9, that I would think jeri ryan would be perfect, the line from role models, ‘why would I want to do that’ about moving in, could have been the borg bombshell’s response – Ryan is almost a physical duplicate of Yvonne – and who wouldn’t want sarah’s mom to look too young, too strong, too hot , isn’t that what genetics is all about? Anyhow, the point is moot, I think sarah’s mom is going to get 30-45 seconds of exposition & no guest star given the sorts of things said so far, like we might address it a little bit later in the season, unless you guys know of a spoiler that has eluded me?

      • Faith says:

        Just spec Jason. Fun ones at that.

        I think she’d have to be 50s. I know some actors can play older but Gary Cole is 54, so is Linda Hamilton—who ironically is a blond and could have played Sarah’s mother instead of Chuck’s.

        Jacqueline Bisset? Don’t know how old she is but she would work.

      • uplink2 says:

        Still pulling for Cheryl Ladd. I think she is perfect for the role.

      • Joseph (can't be Joe) says:

        Lindasy Wagner?

      • Joseph (can't be Joe) says:

        OR, Lindsay Wagner?

      • Faith says:

        Bionic woman? Awe-some!

        Sigourney Weaver…alien!

      • atcDave says:

        I liked the first better Joseph! I think she’s too old. same for Jacqueline Bisset and Cheryl Ladd. They’re all in their 60s (I just checked IMDb). While physically possible, that’s a bit older than Jack and I would guess not what they’re looking for (although maybe if mom was being conned by Jack…)

        My own suggestion of Kim Basinger turns out to still be 3 years older than Gary Cole if that matters, but she is younger than the others.

      • jason says:

        @dave / @faith / @herder / @uplink – it has to be Jeri Ryan, it is much easier to look great with makeup acting older than younger, ryan’s 43 easily sells 50 with the right clothes / hair – she is physically so close – plus – she really is good at acting for this type of role – she has much more recent tv experience, and the star trek genre might help get a few fans back

      • atcDave says:

        Okay Jason, I’m sold. Jeri Ryan would be an excellent choice AND have lots of nerd appeal.

      • uplink2 says:

        But remember folks, Sarah Walker is 30 so 50 is the absolute minimum age unless they go a route I don’t think they will and 55 seems more appropriate. Gary Cole turns 55 this year so I would say the character is 55. Cheryl Ladd is 59 and still looks great. To pass for 55 would be very easy for he.

      • Big Kev says:

        Jason,
        Agreed that the spy world can be a parody most of the time. Clearly that’s what it is on this show. But sometimes that world, or more specifically the characters within it, are “real” – Bryce and PapaB are the 2 best examples, coincidentally 2 of the strongest arcs on the show. The mythology doesn’t work if either of those 2 characters, or their motivations, are parodies. The “growth” that happens to Chuck and
        Sarah, through those characters, means nothing if they are parodies or cardboard cut outs.
        You use Volkoff as an example of camp – and you’re right. But Dalton also had just enough menace when
        needed to be convincing. Where that story failed was in the “besotted with MamaB for 20 years” angle. I never bought that – and I thought the payoffs from that resolution in Push Mix were diminished as a result. They “parodied” Volkoff, as you describe – at a cost to the story.

      • uplink2 says:

        @Kev, I find it very interesting that you clearly left someone out of that posting when talking about cardboard cutouts. lol

      • Joseph (can't be Joe) says:

        That would be a plywood cutout.

        **Dodges Lightning**

      • Big Kev says:

        @Uplink,
        Indeed 🙂 Funny how just the use of the term is now enough of an implied reference!

      • jason says:

        @kev – hope I am not driving you crazy, but here goes: I found no value in any of the bryce stuff other than angst, and yes, the angst characters are serious. Byrce IMO was re-introduced to take chuck and sarah backwards, when they got too close.

        Orion / Papa B, I agree, he was serious, and he was the best spy plot on the show, no parody what so ever, real and serious. My biggest issue with that, to me, it didn’t fit the show, and sort of led to the shaw misery season, as they decided to do more. As we both know, they misread what they did with papa b / orion.

        The reason papa B worked, wasn’t the mythology, drama and seriousness of papa b, it was the relationship of a father and son, so he wasn’t riveting due to the spy arc, but due to the relationship arc, which I contend is the show’s wheelhouse, and can go serious – while some ridiculous spy story is going on in the background – and yes – it could be a sitcom in an office and work just as well, as long as sarah and casey can shoot, beat people, and blow things up.

      • jason says:

        @kev – back on topic, what is of interest about 4×18 and beyond, vivian is not a parody IMO, the lawyer might be but also may not be. Also, bently and neither of the greta’s appear to be. So chuck may be going serious again – will be interesting how buymore fits into more serious chuck, how morgan fits, how chuck and sarah a couple fits, how ellie, awesome, baby awesome, and mary fit, and how serious chuck gets received by the fans? I would guess either murduuuur or wedding planner or both will be lighter, but sure seems like the rest of the season is going to kick butt, doesn’t it? Maybe they decided to test the theory, what was wrong with season 3 wasn’t the serious spy plot, but the failed chuck sarah story? Going to be interesting – isn’t it????

      • armySFC says:

        love to see jeri ryan but she is co-staring in body of proof on ABC starting 29 Mar 11. she may be under contract not to appear on another show.

      • thinkling says:

        What a long thread, and it talks about … everything. A Chuck thread.

        I like the mom specs for Sarah’s mom. It’s a much safer topic than the S3 thread, which I’ll leave alone tonight.

        For Sarah’s mom. I don’t necessarily go with the Bond girl idea. I’d like Sarah’s mom to be almost anything but a spy. So here’s my picky run down on the suggestions so far:
        Cheryl Ladd — 10 years ago, sure, but now she’s too old.
        Sigourney Weaver — I like her, but the resemblance is hard to sell.
        Jeri Ryan — too young.
        Kim Basinger — Good choice. I liked her in Cellular. Right age. Resemblance works.
        Lindsay Wagner — Another good choice. Age and resemblance work well.
        I would add Annette Benning to the list. Right age and build, blue eyes, dye the hair. Plus she’s a good actress.

      • Big Kev says:

        Jason,
        Sorry – missed your comment – always fun discussing things with you.
        Actually I think we’re pretty close here. I think the MO of the show is to bring in 2 “serious” spy-based characters or scenarios per season who represent the “challenge” and drive character growth. S1 Bryce, S2 Bryce and PapaB, S3 Shaw and “Prague” and S4 MamaB, Volkoff (to a point) and Vivian.
        I think as long as those stories are convincing (I think that’s a better word than “serious”) then the villains and spy plots that come and go around them can be as goofy as you like – in fact, often, the goofier the better.
        I think you’re right that there’s going to be a spy/myth heavy arc coming. Those of us who like that aspect have earned it, I think, after a spy-lite first half! I hope they do it without angst, and manage to keep the heavy shippers on board. It makes sense to me that they would protect their shipper fanbase after S3 – and having done that, that they would now service the other main part of the fanbase.

      • atcDave says:

        Kev I think that’s exactly what’s coming.

    • First Timer says:

      @uplink:
      My comment that it was either the name reveal or a Colonel-type bed scene were Adler’s only choices was SPECIFIC to the fact that she was tasked in the episode to consummate the Sarah-Shaw relationship. I mean, I SUPPOSE you could have Sarah and Shaw coming out of the shower talking about the things that were troubling her about Chuck. That would have added some balance to the Hannah shower scene. So I suppose there WAS a third option, too.

      But Adler was required by the arc to show the consummation of Sarah and Shaw. So she had to do something.

      As for the other stuff, well, Adler was featured in a web-only video that was released on nbc.com/chuck talking about how she “loved love” and hoped for a Chuck Sarah wedding. The video was shot in front of the wedding pix used in Suburbs. This was just before the season started. It was clear then that the show runners knew the path they had laid out was not popular with the fanbase and that it was gonna be rough sledding when the show started airing. So they sent out Adler to calm folks down.

      I don’t think it actually worked. Hence I think she shot back with the cracks given to Jeff and Paulie Walnuts.

      @atcdave:
      In fairness to Adler, she wouldn’t be coming back after flipping the bird to fans with Fake Name. She also is credited with the story for Honeymooners and was part of the writing/story team of Subway/Ring II. So there IS some distance. And, in point of absolute fairness, there is no guarantee that she actually wrote the Jeff/Paulie Walnuts lines. They could have come from elsewhere in the writer’s room or even the show runners. So I think, on balance, her coming back is a good thing.

      Besides, Fake Name was really her only bad episode. TV writing is too fast and too hectic to have a “one strike and your out” judgment from fans…

      • Big Kev says:

        Agreed FT. She’s done way too much good work on the show to be cast out over one episode. I’m with Faith. I thought it was a decently written episode even though I hated the story it was telling me – but even for those who disagree with that, I think Ali’s positives far outweigh the negatives.
        I wouldn’t be surprised if you’re right about her already being hired back too. I can’t see her tweeting something like that without approval.
        I also thought it was interesting that Adam and Yvonne were so specifically optimistic about renewal. I’ve never seen anyone on the show say anything other than “we don’t know” in previous seasons on that subject.

      • uplink2 says:

        Well then I guess this is where it is an untenable position and the basic premise of consummating the relationship is just so offensive and unbelievable on so many levels. Why they went there is just such a blunder and a complete misreading of what the audience saw in the show. Then they sent everyone out there to try and sell an unsellable story. Zach’s comments about WTWT being great tv, Schwartz’s comments about it being great, Yvonne’s comments with Adam saying how great 6-10 would be and the fans will love it was all just PR spin because as I was reading threads from July of 09 over at ChuckTV today the fans were already exploding about it. Some were already talking about heading to the exits as the WTWT had been played out clearly. I’ll try to find that Ali video to watch it. There were comments about the mods at the NBC boards deleting threads and comments there were up in arms about it.

        What I don’t get is that if they knew it was going to be a tough sell very early on then why go there or if you think it is great the how about trying to make it great? I just don’t see the sense to it unless its just arrogance. There were many ways to have made that season work and many ways to have managed the PR much better. They tried to manage the response instead of simply writing a much better more believable story and there was still plenty of time to do it.

        But again it isn’t that Fake Name is a badly written episode, its that it was a badly conceived story. And for a writer to take shots at fans in the story seems really offensive and mean spirited even if it was supposed to be funny. She is a great writer but I think it might be considered insulting to LeJudkins and Newman to bring her back especially when they have done such a great job of getting us here.

      • Big Kev says:

        @Uplink,
        You really are determined to drive yourself mad over this, aren’t you? 🙂
        I agree it would be an interesting case study to go “inside” what they were thinking, when they knew they were in trouble and what changes they made, if any, to their original plans.
        I think the truth is probably pretty prosaic. They stuffed up. They thought we’d like something we didn’t like. It was a pretty big mistake and it almost cost them their jobs.
        In response, they wrote a 24 episode apology to everyone they upset. That apology is S4. You can debate about whether the mistake should have been made until the cows come home – but you should be pretty happy with the apology.

      • herder says:

        I’m of mixed emotions about the possibility of Ali Adler having an hand in the wedding of Chuck and Sarah. On the one hand she obviously loves writing about Chuck and Sarah and Yvonne is one of her favorite actresses to write for. I don’t think that it is a coincidence that the last two acting jobs for Yvonne’s boyfriend have been Chuck last year and Ali’s show this year. Clearly there is a connection between writer and actor that goes beyond the standard.

        On the other hand Ali Adler was my favorite writer up until season three, but Three Words which promised they would work towards fixing things and then Fake Name, the faults of which have been elaborately set out above cooled me on Ali’s writing. I can see her wanting to fix what she wrote, especially in light of her video (no doubt pushed by TPTB) but all have moved on and her wanting to fix things strikes me as more of a settleing of scores about writer’s room differences about season three.

        She always had a good sense about what people would like and a knack for introducing ideas that would carry over from episodes into the mythology of the story, be it the bracelet or Sarah’s real name. For my money, the two biggest errors that she made in season three were the notion that Chuck and Sarah would work on fixing the mess that they had made and the mocking of the chorus about the WTWT in Fake Name. An unfulfilled promise that was designed to soften the blow of the break up and the mocking of the Chuck/Sarah shippers was cynical to say the least and mean spirited to say the worst.

      • uplink2 says:

        @Kev I am obsessed with it most definitely lol. I need something to help me let it go. I agree that season 4 has done a lot to do just that and a season 5 that really takes us where we all thought the show could go with a balanced more spy couple vs the world type of show that they are starting now would help even more but until then it is still eating at my brain quite a bit. And seeing things like that ridiculous Ali Adler video makes it even worse. I can see why that had the exact opposite effect.

      • atcDave says:

        First Timer I did acknowledge she is a good writer! I’m just not that excited about her return. I like the S4 team we’ve had, and I don’t want to see any of them replaced by the old crew. Herder reminded me of the Three Words thing which I also kind of hold against her (the false promise), but Fake Name really rubs me wrong. I would also say ANY writer who was handed the task of writing Fake Name was going to get S*** all over themselves, she was doomed the moment she got the assignment. Her other episodes have generally been better, including some of the best Chuck episodes ever. So I just won’t get too excited either way over her return.

        Big Kev I do like the encouraging tone we’ve been getting from Adam and Yvonne. I really hope that means good news is coming soon.

        Uplink it was ugly in July of 2009, I know I was among those going ballistic on the NBC boards. Adler’s “Love Writer” video was as insulting and silly a bit of damage control as I’ve ever seen. Especially when one considers the course was already charted and they knew what they were going to put us through. It was hubris plain and simple. Fans AND media critics were all telling them with different degrees of passion and reason that the wt/wt had played out and NEEDED to end. But they pushed it again anyway; it was the “Operation Market Garden” of TV romance writing (“A Bridge Too Far”).

        But Big Kev is right about a season long apology. S4 has been everything I ever hoped for from the show. I’m not shy about calling them on what they screwed up; but I am VERY happy to acknowledge what they’ve done right. And S4 has been wonderful entertainment. I’m a happy boy!

      • Big Kev says:

        You guys are a seriously tough crowd! 🙂
        I’ll dock Ali a couple of points for Fake Name – but Wookie, Truth, Suburbs, Best Friend, Honeymooners, Subway mean she’s still well ahead. I’d be pushing Wootton out the door – one barely acceptable episode in 3, and I’d be teaming up Myers and DiGregorio, rather than letting them write whole episodes. They’ve done one – what are the odds we don’t see another Wootton episode?

  20. Jake says:

    Hence them both being bubble shows! only hardcore fans are going to stick around through the contrivances!

  21. Jake says:

    To be honest Lost did the exact same thing with it’s characters…..that is the point of serialized drama….every show in one way or another will disservice their characters because they know that they have a destination and they have to force one of their characters to do something they would not do and it does suck but is totally predictable. That is why the wire is the best serialised drama that ever came onto tv, everything mattered, the characters were who they were and that is a very rare thing to pull off.

    • uplink2 says:

      I agree about The Wire. For me it was the best show ever on television. Brilliantly written, directed and acted. It set a standard for serialized drama few will ever even come close to.

  22. OldDarth says:

    The Wire had a different objective than Lost. Its through line was history repeats.

    Don’t agree with you that just because a show has a destination that the characters have to be manipulated to reach that destination. In a good story the characters will reach that destination, or not, in a way that is honest to their characters. Which, for me, Lost did.

    The Wire, a fantastic series, had it easier with their characters because there was no single objective beyond the aforementioned history repeats.

  23. First Timer says:

    @everyone:
    I put this down here because EVERYONE should read this. The return of Klemmer (and one can now assume) Adler wouldn’t freak out ANYONE in the writer’s room. They are understaffed for a 22-episode show, and adding two more, especially on a 7-day shoot schedule, must be brutal. The S4 writers would appreciate ANY help they can get. Besides, given what we know about things, the final arc will be all hands on deck because it very well may be the end of the show. Everyone is gonna want (and going to need to) have a piece of the action.

    Besides, Newman is working on a pilot. All of the other writers are probably already trying to interview in case S5 doesn’t happen. Schwartz has two or three other projects, etc. I am SURE the writers who are there now would appreciate any extra help in these final weeks.

  24. Sarah/Sam says:

    Awesome discussion guys. Tamara I’ve always agreed with your comments about S3 “zombie” Sarah. They’re always on point. It’s funny that many Chucksters repeatedly admonish to forget S3, but I never could. It would be congruent to ignoring your own personal history which is what makes you who you are. Forgive? Of course, but forget, very difficult. The events chronicled about Sarah’s behavior in S3 IMO damaged all the good from S1,S2. I don’t know if 100 Phase Three’s can recover from said damage for those of us to believed those things implied a real level of intimacy. The damage is why you really needed” Phase Three to ‘begin with. In all honesty, I don’t think TPTB sat out to create greatness. As sometimes happens, it was stumbled upon. The arenas of a great setting of the everyman being thrust into a foreign world where he is motivated to greatness by his “Dream Girl” Rich and eccentric characters present in the normal life Chuckverse . Supernova chemistry between Levi and Strahovski and last, but certainly not, least superb acting from Yvonne, who really made the Sarah Walker character what we loved about the show . You can’t really blame Schwedak. They are just trying to make a show to entertain us and they did it well, but they never recognized the potential greatness that was within their grasp.

    • Tamara Burks says:

      They not only failed with Sarah behaving in such an unrecognizable manner they failed with what they outright said would happen.

      Shaw was supposed to be a mentor for Chuck but he was so bad at his job that we wondered why such an incompetant spy was mentoring anybody.

      Sarah was supposed to be Chuck’s teacher but we didn’t get that from her either (telling him to flash is not teaching). Casey’s the one who seemed to be doing the mentoring even after he was fired. Casey truly had his back when Sarah didn’t

      Which is why if it appears that Casey has dumped Team B and if the info about the kill order for Chuck in season 1 comes out in a bad way then Chuck will be hurt.

  25. First Timer says:

    @uplink:
    Sorry, this thread is getting so long I can’t find where to put it. But you asked about the original status of 3.8, which became Fake Name. Surf here and scroll down to the bottom for the original casting call:
    http://chucktv.net/spoilers/season-3/episode-3-08/

    And here’s the Allison Adler video, from August 2009, just after Comicon, with her saying how she’s rooting for Chuck and Sarah. Needless to say, it didn’t allay fears and might have contributed to her zingers at the fans in Fake Name:
    http://www.chuckmeout.com/ali-adler-on-chuck-sarah-love-im-rooting-as-hard-as-you-are/

    • jason says:

      wow FT – that is the first time I saw the adler pitch, I thought it would be quite different, to me, that simply said season 3 is going to suck please bear with us, the good stuff is coming, eventually. I thought she really layed it on thick and lied from all I read, in my opinion, she completely told the truth?

      However, I am about as excited for adler as I was for klemmer, which isn’t saying much. I would have to think she is back however, so I am stuck with her. She seems to be a smarta$$, more like schwartz than fedak, I think her 4th wall stuff and desert within a desert was her fighting back vs an ep she really did not have her heart in. What she didn’t realize, chuck fans were not in a laughing mood when viewing the trash she wrote ….

      THat is the thing with adler and klemmer, a great writer is one whose name I don’t know, because the only thing that will make me know there name is either self promotion or bad episodes, adler seems guilty of both, klemmer maybe only of incompetence.

    • uplink2 says:

      Thank you so much for that!

    • Big Kev says:

      I’ve never been able to see the Adler video because it’s on the NBC site and I can’t view that from overseas. Anyone know of an alternative link or a YouTube copy?

    • uplink2 says:

      Wow no wonder that didn’t work. That is so dismissive and just so arrogant. you could have had it anytime and you are asking for us to bear with us? Are you freaking kidding me? Now I understand the shots in Fake Name because she was giving shots at the fans even then.

      I’m glad I didn’t see that before it really would have pissed me off.

    • Ernie Davis says:

      I’ve basically quit commenting out of frustration, but this is a perfect example of the source of my frustration. We assume we know the whole story, that Schwedak and Ali Adler were free to run the show as they saw fit, with no interference from either WB or NBC, and then we take umbrage they didn’t give us what we wanted out of spite or stupidity, assuming we know the motives of the show runners and the creative team and the intent of every line in addition. So Ali Adler spat in our collective faces, and Schwedak were determined to say FU to the fans. So we see a video and we assume we know exactly what it means, that they know what we want, but refuse to give it to us, rather than possibly an explanation that they know what we want, but they can’t give it to us…yet.

      Until the series is over and someone from the writers room, or Schwedak, decides to spill, and even then it might not happen if it would be impolitic to do so, we don’t know the situation, the problems, the compromises, or the requirements the Chuck team faced.

      I’m still loving the show, kind of burnt out on the “fanbase”. I’m not directing this at anyone, just the general malaise and nastiness that has overtaken things. I’m tired of it, and it’s killing my enjoyment of the show, and the blog. Much as I’ve always enjoyed this blog and all of you here, and the great discussions we’ve had, right now, I’d rather enjoy the show.

      • herder says:

        Booof!

      • atcDave says:

        Ernie you are of course allowed to defend whomever you wish. But I think you misinterpret some of our criticism. even if they were mandated to continue the wt/wt aspect of the show for another season (which strikes me as unlikely since it was contemporary with “The Office” wedding which caused a spike in ratings and much free publicity for the network), I do not believe they would have been told HOW to accomplish it. I have always tried to apply blame where seems fitting. As an admitted non-professional my viewpoint is clearly that of a viewer. And in that context I’m content to be proven wrong by later facts. But when they make statements, PR material, and give interviews they make their approach and attitude fair game.
        And I think both the tone and discussion here have been fair. As fans with limited info we’re still trying to sort out the details of what went wrong. You love the story elements themselves. I’m far more interested in the production process. I don’t see how you can look at these things without considering the people behind the decisions. As I’ve repeatedly said, I love military history. Well analyzing the mindset of Longstreet at Gettysburg or Nagumo at Midway is a big part of sorting out their decisions. It is not personal. I have made bad decisions out of professional pride, bad communication, and 101 degree fevers. Trying to determine why someone else made a bad decision is always tricky, but we go on what we have. That does not reflect on the good or bad of anyone as a person, but may effect our opinion of them in a particular job. And as the “entertainees” we are in a special position to judge the entertainers. I think everyone involved in criticizing S3 (again) has been clear that they are happy with S4. Obviously lessons were well learned. I see hubris in comments leading up to S3. The saying is “pride goes before the fall.” Well they seem to have fallen, AND learned their lesson. That is a BEAUTIFUL story in it’s own right. The show itself has been redeemed in my eyes. But no one is well served by forgetting the lessons of the past. The whole story of Chuck will always include a botched season, followed by a thing of beauty.

      • Faith says:

        Ernie, things will never get back to the way it’s supposed to be if you’re agreeing with me all the time! 😛

        Quick, name an actor that you’d like to play Sarah’s mom (fluff conversation) and if you say Sigourney Weaver, or Jacklyn Smith or Lynda Carter, I give up!

      • Tamara Burks says:

        How about Carrie Fisher. Sure she’d no longer fit in that metal bikini but she can act and it would be a nice callback to vs the sandworm.

      • uplink2 says:

        Sorry Ernie but that video is pretty self explanatory. If you are ok with giving them a pass because of something none of us know for sure that’s fine. I can’t. That video is one of the most insincere, dismissive, obnoxious and self serving things I have seen in a long time. And sorry Faith but after seeing that, I don’t want her back. Give me LeJudkins or Newman please.

      • Ernie Davis says:

        Well Faith, we still can disagree. You always got way ahead of the story IMO. Clearly Sarah wasn’t really in love till Truth at the earliest, perhaps Marlin. Wookie was simply her realizing how unfair her demands were to Chuck, a guy who deserved more than standard operating procedure, but didn’t know how to deal with it yet.

        In Truth she may have realized she was compromised about the time she wanted Chuck’s crossing things off his list to be a declaration of love, even if she didn’t think it had a future.

        By Marlin, it was pretty clear she was in love, but still didn’t know how to handle it.

        So when did Chuck realize he was in love with Sarah, and when did Sarah realize she was in love with Chuck? 😉

      • Ernie Davis says:

        Dave, I’m just tired of the personalization of all of this. Creative decisions aside, I’m sick of hearing it. Stupid, lazy, insulting … all the rest. Again, not directed at you or anyone else, I’ve just reached my limit.

        In addition I consider season 3 a problematic season, not botched. I enjoyed quite a lot of it, and, and I don’t mean this as a personal attack at anyone, I’m a bit tired of hearing that there is nothing of merit in the first 13 from people who swear that they reject the entire premise, let alone the story and have never watched the episodes more than once. I know that comes off as overly critical, but at a certain point people who feel that way have to understand they’ve had their say, made their point, and allow people with other views to have a discussion. If you reject the front 13 of season 3 exactly what do you add to the discussion that some of us want to have? And I use the generic you, I don’t mean this personally, to anyone, especially Dave since you’ve (specifically) shown great restraint at times I’ve delved into some of this. But the thing is, a lot of the genius I’ve seen is how the writers have dealt with the problematic aspects of season 3, and brought those episodes back into the real fabric of the journey, and the story, yet any time I try to write about it we get a rehash of the same conversation we’ve been having for a year.

        Oh yeah, and Chuck isn’t Fringe, which is apparently now a legitimate basis for criticism.

        Let’s leave it at I’m burnt out.

      • thinkling says:

        Tamara, Carrie Fisher would be a nice Sand Worm call back. Her age works but she’s a bit vertically challenged to be Sarah’s mom … only 5’1″ … 5 inches shorter than LH (just for reference).

      • atcDave says:

        Although Carrie Fisher might be a lot of fun for exactly that reason.

      • Faith says:

        Huff. She said it herself…”Chuck, I fell for you a long, long time ago. After you fixed my phone and before you started diffusing bombs with computer viruses.” So in some ways I’m actually behind! 😛

        In all seriousness though HIMYM (I’m going to hell for mentioning Chuck’s competition) had this stages of love illustration:

        -First there’s a moment when you think you think it.
        Wookie
        – Next the moment when you think you know it
        Truth
        – Then, the moment when you know, you know it but can’t yet say it.
        Marlin? Break Up?
        – Finally, the moment when you know you know it, and can’t keep it in any longer.
        Colonel

        Uplink, that’s ok. To each his/her own :).

        Tamara, with all the star wars reference in this show I think Carrie Fisher would rock.

      • Faith says:

        So we were this close to disagreeing again and you brought up burned out. Damn you Ernie! 😀 lol, JK.

      • Ernie Davis says:

        Yes, she did say it, but does anyone really believe she knew it then?

        In my limited experience, being in love includes recognition that what you are feeling, is in fact love.

      • uplink2 says:

        Ernie, I would say that there is a difference between “falling for someone” and “being in love” with them. As Sarah said on their date in the Pilot, “I like you Chuck” and that was very real. From my own life experience I fell for my wife the first time I saw her. I liked her and there was a definite attraction, both infatuation and lust but I wasn’t in love with her yet. But I did fall for her that night. From that moment on every other woman I was dating just didn’t work for me the same way and I quickly ended all of that. Three months later while sitting on a beach watching the stars I knew I was in love with her and was going to marry her at some point. But I would still contend I fell for her that first night. I just wasn’t in love with her till later.

        That’s the same with Sarah I believe. I’ve been doing a season 1 rewatch these past few days and boy was it a different show back then. Much more spy stuff and more single episodes until the Lou arc that I just finished last night. I would say that Sarah was greatly attracted to Chuck in the Pilot and not just on a physical lustful level. In fact that is probably minor to her at that point, unlike Chuck. In Wookie she wants him most definitely as Carina stated but she didn’t realize it till she was standing in the doorway when she saw someone for the first time in her life do something that was just for her. Just for who she was inside, little girl Sarah if you will. Just taking the time to notice she didn’t like olives though insignificant in a small sense was huge in the big picture for Sarah. With that small gesture he showed her something she had never seen before. She, the person inside not the spy, mattered to someone. And at that point she loved him because of it on at least a subconscious level.
        But she realizes she is in love with him in Truth when he rejects her and rejects the fake for the first time. The look of disbelief on her face is just so powerful. Here she had a fake relationship that gave her everything she could handle as a spy in terms of a real life. It was what she wanted and was ready for and she was being rejected because it wasn’t real. She is hurt and stunned that it was being taken away from her. She then becomes protective Sarah when it comes to Lou and is envious of the life that he starts with her because she doesn’t think she can ever have it. Those 2 episodes are very powerful. She knew she was lying to Chuck when he asked about a future which is born out by her comments to Casey. But her training was still so strong she resisted. Casey knew she loved with him then too. But he just thought it was her pattern and didn’t realize the depth of it and neither did Sarah really till Bryce came back and it was fully manifest in Marlin. Bryce’s return showed her the best of what she could have in the spy world and by that point it wasn’t good enough for her anymore. She had seen what a life with Chuck would offer by his relationship with Lou and she wanted it more. I think she felt the same for Bryce as she had before she met Chuck but it was no longer enough for her. It was a life that didn’t fulfill her anymore. Even the fake with Chuck offered her more than a real relationship with Bryce did. And so she made her choice, as difficult and painful as it was.
        In Crown Victoria, Chuck won’t let her off the hook about the choice she made and defensive Sarah takes over. He calls her out on it even though he thinks he may have lost her because of it. In Marlin it completely overwhelms her because she sees that she may loose him. But he calms her down and walks her back of the cliff letting her know that he loves her and doesn’t blame her for what he thinks is about to happen. That moment when they hold hands if you look at it closely SHE reaches out the farthest and with the most desire. It was as powerful as her kissing him in Salami, possibly more so. She is a goner then. Head over heels in love with him.

        So I guess my point is that falling for someone isn’t the same as being in love with them. And in that scenario she did fall for him in the Pilot but was a complete goner by the end of Marlin.

      • Faith says:

        Uplink, I commend you for a well thought out post. I totally appreciate the details and the breakdowns of my favorite topic :).

        Having said that, I was really just teasing Ernie. I do think he had a point. Let’s revisit your situation with your wife, you did fall for her initially but just like Sarah, I think you also didn’t realize that until you’re all the way in, sunk. Then you’ve come to the realization that you’ve loved all along. I like that actually. For someone like Sarah especially. None of this is familiar, easy or welcome to be honest but she’s changed and has become more. More everything, more open because of Chuck–because of what she feels for him, felt for him. It may have started out as a spark, as a recognition of one soul to another but gradually it turned into something more. That transformation and her character development is among the things I enjoy the most about Chuck and frankly what I truly enjoy talking about.

      • Ernie Davis says:

        Uplink, I think you make my case very well, or at least the case I was alluding to. But I admit I was mostly trying to tease Faith about being an uber-shipper.

  26. uplink2 says:

    BTW folks Emmy4Yvonne Phase Three goes live tomorrow!!! Got some really cool stuff coming and we hope you folks will join us!

  27. Sarah/Sam says:

    After watching Phase Three again, apologies. Yvonne was truly, truly awesome. Maybe 50 Phase Three’s? I think everyone understands the gist upon reflection. We can try to excuse it, analyze it, defend it, critique it and Sarah/Chuck bash it anyway we want . The bottom line and what we all hate as Chuck lovers is that TPTB fucked up what was one of the great TV shows of the modern era in S3. Despite the partial recovery in S4, it can never be complete , hence the continued discussion of S3 after all this time. Upon reflection, it will be one of the great missed television opportunities, because I think the cast (especially Zach) is beginning to lose interest, all factors being considered.

    • Big Kev says:

      S/S,
      No F words here – it’s (usually) a family-friendly blog!
      You know, Jason made a comment a few weeks ago about Zac phoning in some scenes. I didn’t see it at the time, but I have done since. Don’t know if it’s tiredness or something deeper, but he’s just not quite been on his game as much this season, IMO.

      • OldDarth says:

        More character related IMO. What can Zac, or any actor, do when fitted with a strait jacket storyline for most of the season.

        Fortunately last episode turned a corner for the Chuck character. Hopefully permanently, though the next episode worries and so does the upcoming return of MamaB and Volkoff.

      • James Bond says:

        OD, I am sure you said that in your Balcony podcast that chuck started to go back to the confident spy! But then Gobbler came and he was back to the shadows, then pushmix he was awesome then….bank of evil. I mean to be fair at least he has material whereas casey has been totally underserviced!!!

  28. Anonymous says:

    Mr. Davis: Let me see if I understand. When YOU reject what’s written (i.e., the creators give Sarah specific dialogue saying she fell for Chuck in the pilot, but it doesn’t meet YOUR definition of what the reality is), that’s okay. You’re free to dismiss whatever doesn’t fit your worldview of the show. But when others reject parts of Season 3, that’s not okay. They are NOT free to reject any part of the show that you have embraced and deemed acceptable.

    I would never think of trying to convince you to change your Davis-centric view of Chuck. But you might be gracious enough to accept that the rest of us have some trouble keeping up when you and you alone seem to have the right to embrace or reject canon.

    • Big Kev says:

      Anon,
      Far be it for me to defend someone who’s more than capable of defending himself – but I don’t think Ernie’s issue is with anyone rejecting any part of the show. It’s more that if you choose to reject a premise or a story out of hand, then there’s not really much constructive you can contribute to the conversation. All that’s left is to restate your position – and too many S3 debates end up as exactly that.
      I think it’s a well made point and one I’m in complete agreement with.

    • Ernie Davis says:

      Anon, I don’t reject Sarah’s statement that she fell for Chuck immediately, I just don’t see it as inconsistent that it took her some time to either come to that realization or admit it to herself. In fact I think that given the character and the story it makes sense that she only later realizes what has been happening to her and the true nature of her feelings.

      As for the rest Kev has stated the crux of my argument.

  29. Verkan_Vall says:

    Inre: Speculation

    I understand that there is going to be a Q&A given by TPTB at a convention in Chicago this coming weekend (3/19-20). Is that correct, and does anyone plan on attending?

    I’d be interested in seeing and/or hearing about that, it has been quite some time since Schwartz and Fedak took questions from the fans live so to speak.

  30. sniderman says:

    The promos hint that Greta(s) have themselves an Intersect. But there has been some grumbling that “Chuck is special” and “only Chuck’s unique brain can handle the Intersect.” That may be true – only Chuck’s brain can handle the full Intersect. But we’ve forgotten something that I don’t think anyone has mentioned elsewhere:

    Nacho Sampler.

    Manoosh was able to reverse-engineer a portable Kung-Fu-only portable Intersect, remember? And he’s now in CIA custody. Who’s to say that they haven’t been having him work on a similar project – a minimal Intersect that bestows a very narrow set of skills for a limited temporary amount of time? Manoosh didn’t seem to suffer any ill effects when he used his Kung Fu glasses two or three times. So that could be the angle. The new limited-time/limited-skills Intersect could be ready for a field test.

    • thinkling says:

      I hadn’t thought of that possibility, Sniderman. It will be interesting to see how the Intersect has been engineered … if they tell us. Somehow I think Manoosh is too small a fish for what’s frying in this arc.

      I do wonder what the Greta Intersects will be like. This whole story line seems fascinating.

      • sniderman says:

        Well, maybe Manoosh wasn’t involved, but the CIA confiscated the tech involved, so that could be where this new “Intersect-lite” comes from. And from a writer standpoint, it’d be a way to introduce Intersect-like abilities without completely trashing previous continuity with regards to Chuck’s “special brain.”

      • thinkling says:

        His technology, which was Ring tech (I think), could certainly be involved. We’ll know soon … I hope.

  31. uplink2 says:

    A little more about the Gretas and we get both their names.

    http://www.tvguide.com/News/Look-Gretas-Return-1030673.aspx

    Her character, now known as Capt. Victoria, is actually partners with fellow former Greta, Capt. Rick (Mustafa). As you might guess, Chuck will take a kick out of the “Rick and Vic” moniker. In the episode, “You see them earning their stripes,” Mustafa says. “You see how they become the new duo.”

  32. herder says:

    I get the impression that the relations between the teams will be different than in Role Models there you had an excited Chuck seeing a preview of what he and Sarah could become and a bemused Sarah indulging Chuck’s enthousiasm. Here I gather that Chuck tries to get along with the Gretas and is rebuffed, but Sarah takes a much harder line. Maybe she sees the Gretas being mean to her guy, enter giant blond she-male. In any event it sounds fun.

    It also sounds like there will be some conflict between Beckman and Bently about the two teams. Beckman apreciating the unorthodox but strangely effective team that she has and Bently trying to create her own, more by the book team, I don’t imagine that the General will apreciate the poaching of her Col. Casey.

    • weaselone says:

      What I don’t get is how Casey thinks that moving to a team with TWO intersects is going to make him the big agent on campus again. With the now named Gretas, isn’t Casey made even more redundant in the field than he was with Sarah and Chuck? It seems almost inevitable that in such a team his destiny would be in the rear with the gear and perhaps a sniper rifle or pigeonholed into an administrative role.

      • James Bond says:

        Casey has experience handling an intersect, that is vital if they are repeating a once only done (team b) team. He knows the ins and outs of what the intersect can and cannot do and how to manage them.

    • James Bond says:

      I think the CIA (well robin givens CIA Clandestine team) have forgotten that chuck’s strengths lay in his intelligence. The intersect is just there for him to be able to be a field agent. But the actual day to day killing is for sarah and casey and chuck does the tactical stuff and planning and the computer stuff and all the other things that other agents even the grettas with new intersects will not be able to do! It is like comparing apples and oranges!

      • weaselone says:

        There’s also the seeming fact that all the other agents capable of receiving Intersects seem to have God complexes of some sort. There was Bryce (assuming he’d survive the download), Shaw and now these two GRETAs who seem to have the same complex from the brief bits we’ve scene and spoilers we’ve heard.

      • James Bond says:

        To be fair every agent we have met including cole (even though he was a nice guy deep down) are ultimately ego maniacs. Even sarah’s cat squad were very dismissive of chuck, even casey was at first until chuck started to serve his country awesomely and gained casey’s respect and friendship and love, brotherly love, philidelphia style!

      • JC says:

        I admit I’m biased but I thought they went out their way to show that Bryce was an unconventional spy who’s feelings got in the way just like Chuck. Other than the killing issue and confidence levels I’d say they’re the same person to a certain extent.

      • James Bond says:

        I think that the killing is a big thing for sarah, the man she chooses to love cannot kill and chuck has not. But in truth the way Byce treated chuck in nemisis and break up, he was very dismissive and he like cole only showed chuck respect when he realised that he lost sarah to chuck. Plus sarah when she opens up emotionally lashes out, you have to be a nice understanding guy like chuck to take it and still be nice and work through it with her.

      • Tamara Burks says:

        When I saw breakup, I mentally described Bryce’s behavior as like that of a dog marking his territory (Sarah) .

        And overinflated ego does seem to be a job requirement doesn’t it? If you don’t have one when you are recruited they give you one.

        Even Sarah’s still guilty of it sometimes in the way she never apologizes . And there’s no telling what she was like before she met Chuck.

      • Verkan_Vall says:

        Pssst, James: Philadelphia.

        Man, if other guys from the hometown see you mispell the name like that in a public forum, they’ll give you a wedgie that will make your ears’ hurt.

        Next thing you know, you’ll be spelling Pittsburgh with a capital P.

    • Ernie Davis says:

      I think Casey may feel like if he’s teamed with two agents as opposed to a nerd with a penchant for improvosation and a newly minted bridezilla (not to mention kind of a wildcard when it comes to the nerd) he might stand a chance of having his orders followed on occasion.

      That and he’d no longer have to knock before getting a legal pad out of the supply closet.

      • James Bond says:

        I like that last bit ernie, I really do, great callback!

      • thinkling says:

        LOL — good one, Ernie. Casey has become human, which to him means soft. He may be trying to get back on familiar ground as a by the books guy, especially since Kathleen didn’t pan out.

        He can’t really do that with TeamB for reasons that Ernie so humorously described.

        Uplink’s idea that he’s undercover for Beckman is an interesting possibility as well.

      • herder says:

        Funny, but with a new team he’d be able to grunt and one liner them to his hearts content. His ability to scare Chuck is reduced by wildcard Sarah and he can’t really get digs in at her as they were about her not being able to openly admit her feelings for Chuck. So maybe he feels he needs a new environment to allow him to enjoy his black and bitter inner angry.

      • thinkling says:

        Wonder how long it will take for him to get tired of his black and bitter inner angry?

        If the Bentley team is out for serious harm to TeamB, Casey will be back with TeamB.

        Either he’s undercover for GB, or he hasn’t been read in on the true reason for his team. Or there’s a huge twist coming 😉

      • uplink2 says:

        I think a big part of it is even though he won’t admit it publicly he feels betrayed by Alex not wanting her mom to know about him. He probably thinks its for the best for her but he still is hurt by it.

      • Ernie Davis says:

        Herder, you made me think of something that hadn’t struck me before. Are we seeing Casey creating a separation between a personal life and a career? Clearly Alex was a step in that direction, and seeing Sarah in the wedding dress he was actually kind of brotherly and supportive.

        First it’s board games with the guys, then it’s cooing over the newest member of his extended adoptive family, then he’s almost ready to (gulp) give into his lady-feelings when it comes to Kathleen.

        I think we may be on to something. Casey’s inner angry needs an outlet, and the Bartowskis (and Bartowski-to-be’s) are no longer a fun target, they’re his… friends!

      • atcDave says:

        That is so funny. Casey just a place to embrace his angry center!

      • herder says:

        Well, there’s still new roomate Morgan for him to torment, although if he and Alex do that wierd stuff from Valentines in Casey’s apartment I would have to wonder who’s tormenting whom.

      • Ernie Davis says:

        You kind of have to wonder what Morgan was thinking… Though he did jump into standing water holding an electrical cable and acted as Bengal Tiger kibble, so he does seem to have a death wish.

      • atcDave says:

        Yeah I seriously don’t get what he thinking, rooming with his girlfriends dad, not exactly a recipe for any privacy. But then Morgan has never been wise in that way.

      • thinkling says:

        Are we seeing Casey creating a separation between a personal life and a career?

        Good point Ernie. Casey never had a personal life before, so this is the first time he’s had to separate the two. Chuck and Sarah clearly don’t mind mixing the two, but Casey just can’t stand talking about lady feelings on a mission. His new team looks like a strictly no-lady-feelings bunch.

        It’s like one of my favorite movies lines, “There’s no crying in baseball.” Well, there’s no lady feelings on missions.

      • thinkling says:

        How long do you think the Odd Couple roommate situation will last?

      • atcDave says:

        I bet not long. Morgan will be running off with Alex or something by the end of the season.

    • uplink2 says:

      I’m still of the belief that Casey is working undercover for Beckman on this team. Not sure we will know the answer tonight but I think there is a strong possibility of that.

    • thinkling says:

      I think Sarah may be the harder hit this episode, rather than Chuck. Could be pretty interesting.

      • uplink2 says:

        The new thing in Examiner says:

        and Sarah (Yvonne Strahovski) clashes a bit with her fiance’s approach to the new operatives and their boss

        So he probably wants to be nice and befriend them but she is wary of what the real plot is behind them. Ahh Sarah Walker always the great spy!

    • jason says:

      so will the greta’s / bentley play in any way to the volkov end game? Is ellie going to be involved with the greta’s intersect project? Does anyone know if mustafa or kleiber are in other eps? Seems sort of a waste / big deal if they come and go in just this ep?

      • atcDave says:

        My guesses on those (as always, I know nothing!); I think the Gretas will be done before the return of Volkoff, I bet somehow Ellie will get involved now (not sure if she unknowingly helped with the Gretas, or if she’ll be needed to help Chuck in some way improve his Intersect usage), I think Mustafa and Kleiber are one or two shots only.

      • jason says:

        it is going to go quick now, not that much left:

        18 – will be this greta thing
        19 – likely a bottle ep, an agatha christie murder mystery
        20 – warm up the volkov plot
        21 – jack burton ep
        22 thru 24 – a 3 episode final showdown with volkov’s team & hopefully a wedding?

        that is why if there is going to be a mole with the good guys working for volkov, I think it will be agent X – were I writing, I would consider even giving up beckman as the mole, in some ways, it has to be bentley, unless it is a regular like beckman, casey, morgan or heaven forbid sarah, bentley is the only new guest star on the good guys side –

        if there is no mole, it doesn’t make sense how the lawyer knew all the details about chuck and volkov not getting released, really only beckman or a higher up that we have never met, would have known

      • uplink2 says:

        Still convinced that Agent X is a weapon and not a person. I expect that Bentley is the mole.

      • jason says:

        I think in comics agent X has recuperative superpowers, like the ability to grow back limbs, maybe agent x will be bryce?

      • atcDave says:

        Bryce won’t be coming back; White Collar has been very successful!
        Bentley is the obvious choice for a mole, unless its a Greta; we just don’t know any other meaningful characters. The only other possibility I see is an electronic/communications leak; with no human agent involved.
        But my guess is we’ll see Bentley help Volkoff make his escape, possibly at the cost of her life. Which will lead to a big show down. I’ll also say, after flirting with both sides, Vivian will finally side with TeamB.

        None of these specs seem very shocking to me. So I hope they throw a couple good twists we don’t see coming, but really, as long as the ride is good I’m not much worried about it.
        Morgan surviving to the end seems iffy; whether he is killed by his room-mate while romancing said roomie’s daughter, or accidentally killed by Sarah while using the Morgan Door, I think the bearded troll is living on borrowed time (yes, I’m kidding!).

      • OldDarth says:

        Guessing Bentley will be the Castle Murder Victim that Chuck has to figure out.

      • Mess says:

        Honestly I don’t see the need for a mole. Volkoff was a smart man, scrap that he was a very smart man. A man in his position needs contingency plans, there is a good chance that he instructed his Lawyer on Agent Carmichael. After all, Chuck screwed up pretty bad in telling his whole life story to Alexei, not to mention that Alexei kinda knows everything about Frost and Orion to begin with. So no need for a mole in my book. As for Sarah being the mole? Right like she would do anything that might harm Chuck, like when hell freezes over.

      • atcDave says:

        Except Mess, Frost was very insistent Volkoff had people inside the agency.
        Of course there is always the possibility it will just be another dropped thread. Its not a big deal unless they make it one.

      • thinkling says:

        I agree that the lawyer would have known anything about Chuck that Volkoff knew about him, which was considerably more than what we heard the lawyer tell Vivian.

        Dave is right about the rest. Frost was adamant about a mole, and it would be interesting to find out who it is, but the current stories don’t require a mole thus far.

      • jason says:

        what I thought was mole like was the lawyer knowing they promised vivian that she could see her father and that they were not going to let her, in my mind, that could only been done by beckman or someone at her level or above, was just fooling around with sarah as the mole, I like to do that sometimes, to see if anyone is listening. There probably is not even a mole, as you guessed, and agent x is probably bad gas from a jeff visit to the buymore breakroom lavatory

      • Tamara Burks says:

        Jason , maybe the mole is the same person who thought the wooden man was a great idea . I would call he who should not have been on the show Plastic Man but that would be an insult to Eel O Brien!

  33. rac2873 says:

    I love bitchy Sarah bring it on.

    I think she will be pissed at the Gretas and Casey Chuck she loves him too much. 🙂

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