5:10 Chuck vs. Bo – First Reactions!

No, It’s Not THAT Kind Of Bo!

Bo Derek

Chuck and Sarah are thinking about swearing off spying! But this is Chuck and you just know giving up spying is not going to be easy. They must go on “one last mission”. The good news for them – it’s in Vail Colorado. The bad news – Jeff and Lester are all alone in the Buy More to continue their mission, which is to find out exactly what’s been going on these past few years. Hoo Boy.

Good luck with that, guys.

Bo Derek - "10"

Tonight, Bo Derek plays herself and reveals that she and Mr. Frosted Tips had quite an evening “back in November”, apparently.

Not that I remember…

Not that Morgan remembers! (It must have been some evening. Oh wait, that was Morgan’s Tainted Intersect era. Small wonder. But I digress.)

There’s a nice interview and video with Bo at THR where, much like Linda Hamilton and many others before, she raves about the time she spent with the cast. I’m starting to believe that they really are a fun bunch of people to work with. 😉

On working with Josh:

“On the kissing… he’s great,” Derek says. “He’s funny. A lot of women say humor trumps anything when it comes to sex appeal. So, he has that in spades. And it was a lot of fun.”

Works for me!

– joe


About joe

In my life I've been a professor, martial artist, rock 'n roller, rocket scientist, lover, poet and brain surgeon. I'm lying about the brain surgery.
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161 Responses to 5:10 Chuck vs. Bo – First Reactions!

  1. MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

    I’m worried about this one. Chuck has problems with bōs:


  2. Aerox says:

    – Negative: One of the lines they made Yvonne say was REALLY awkward. I mean, “Did you get a sneak peek at your childhood crush’s boobies?” WHAT THE?!

    – Positives: The rest. It was a pretty fun episode, some seriously good cinematography at the final battle and a twist that, although it was already spoiled two minutes in, still was pretty good!

  3. Aerox says:

    BTW, the setup that they made with Jeff and Lester… that was from Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas right? I’m not completely missing it… right? people? Anyone? Bueller?

  4. sd says:

    A really great episode…even Lester and Jeff weren’t annoying (the obvious product placements kinda were)
    I love the parallel BuyMore universe and the ending was amazing. It looks as if it is setting up to be highly dramatic…and perhaps what someone spec’d about memory loss will be correct.

    • Aerox says:

      I actually presented this scenario to someone else earlier today. We all know that if Chuck would have his memory loss, he’d have no problem with coming back and realizing Sarah is his wife. But now that the odds are firmly stacked in Sarah’s favour for losing it, how receptive would she be to him? And since Yvonne hinted at how the final episode will be about their relationship, maybe it’ll be some form of clip reel/reminiscing about their times and the ending will be something like maybe a hint of recognition from her. A (very) bittersweet ending if that’s the case but it seems plausible at this point in time.

      • atcDave says:

        Yeah I kind of suggested the memory loss the other day too. I’m betting the end will be pretty positive, but it may get ugly before we get there. Memory loss would certainly be a non-physical loss, but its kind of wide open how they play it and how dark or desperate things get. My bet is things look pretty good by the end.

      • phaseou812 says:

        I am excited for what’s to come . . . but as many have speculated based on those various comments that “something is lost” in the end . . . maybe what is lost is Chuck and Sarah’s desire for the normalcy thing . . . the kids . . . and living safe. It was Chuck who originally wanted the normal life, with Sarah not overly interested in normal, just that they are together . . . and as the seasons have progressed she is now wanting the kids, car, garage and the dream house to retire in, . . . where Chuck had always started with that being the ideal concept, drifted into enjoying the excitement of the spy life, but is now coming back around with Sarah their desire for raising a family and living happily ever after. This season has been a constant reminder how they are both now moving in the direction of life after spying. Maybe it is circumstances or the importance of fighting for the greater good of others, that they end up realizing they cannot get out of the spy business. So, maybe it is the fact that the season may not get wrapped up with a bow, in which Chuck and Sarah’s do not leave into the sunset with a new path of normalcy in place. By all indications that seems where the writing had given a lot of air time too, is that desire . . . so maybe that was Yvonne’s hesitant response to the happy ending . . . maybe that is the loss she was referring to. I am sure I will be happy with however it plays out.

  5. atcDave says:

    Well, I did enjoy most of that. The whole Bo Derek as a spy was quite funny. Jeff and Lester’s investigation was a pretty good recurring gag. I didn’t care for the “rainbows” stuff, not funny at all to me.

    Of course I’m feeling pretty smug right now about guessing Sarah would end up with the Intersect tonight. Naturally, Sarah being Sarah it was only a small upgrade…
    Looks like they’re going to have Sarah suffering physical consequences pretty quickly next week. That preview was my least favorite part of the night; obviously the light hearted fun is over and we’ll get something more intense next. I’m just glad we’ll get these last three in only two weeks.

    • armysfc says:

      Dave can i be smugger?

      armysfc says:
      January 6, 2012 at 11:42 pm

      Joe, bravest decision yet = intersect

      • joe says:

        You guys called it!

        Yeah, Army. I’m of two minds with that ending. For me, the key thing is that no one gets the Intersect without losing something – Steven was seen as a little crazy by his family, Hartley lost his mind, Shaw lost his (if he wasn’t already sane), Morgan lost at least a bit of him memory. Only Chuck is “special” (and that’s my gentle poke at those who were put off at one point by the number of Intersects walking around).

        Sarah’s going to be hurt. The promo made it look like it would be something akin to Chuck’s painful, brain-overheating flashes at the end of S3, but it may end up being something different.

        With Sarah at risk, we’re all going be gasping for air by the time it’s over.

  6. MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

    Props to everyone who called Sarah being Intersected. Once they revealed Morgan’s phone video and the missing glasses, it seemed like a possibility. About half way through it seemed like a certainty.

    I just talked to someone who had seen no spoilers (not even the Chuck vs Sarah title), and he called it when Sarah picked up the glasses to “trade” for Chuck. So I guess it wasn’t too obvious until the final setup.

    I thought it was a very funny episode.

    Other thoughts:
    – Chuck jinxed it by saying “final mission” a second time.
    – I liked how Sarah was really getting into the new business plan that would be compatible with a normal life
    – I was a little disappointed Alex didn’t actually see Bo Derek
    – The Colorado versions of the Buy Morons were REALLY, REALLY FUNNY
    – I might like this unhinged bad guy a little better if I hadn’t seen how good Dalton played Volkoff. Maybe it’ll be better after a few episodes.
    – I’m not surprised that this final arc does not appear to be connected to the Shaw arc. However someone in the CIA or NSA needs to get control of all of the Intersect glasses floating around. I guess they could still be connected if we find out who broke Quinn
    – Sarah + Intersect (before too many flashes) = WOW!
    – I really like the song “The Weight”

    • atcDave says:

      I did like the Colorado Buy More, and the oh so secret managers vault!

      Alex and Bo would have been a hoot, oh well….

      I’m wondering if this will EVER tie back into the “grand conspiracy”, or if Quinn is just one deranged ex-agent. I still can’t buy that what was going on before ended with Shaw.

      • I think the grand conspiracy only went as far as Shaw manipulating Decker through a sequence of bad guys trying to ruin Chuck and Sarah…. so there’s not really much there.
        [ I was secretly hoping for more]
        They could have pulled off this episode with Manoosh – out for revenge. [ that he escaped from prison at the same time that Shaw did….]
        Would have been nice to see a previous nemesis character bent on revenge – rather than introducing another ‘bad guy’ of the week…. I better stop before I fall into a deep pile of fan fic over here………….
        Loved the ending –
        and I agree with much of the speculation – I think we might see Sarah really struggle with the affects of the intersect [ Probably even more antagonistic that Morgan] before she looses all her memories…. can anyone say – First 50 Dates?

    • Aerox says:

      I called it 5/6 minutes in the episode. I don’t remember why, but it was the way that one of the sentences was phrased that caused me to immediately say: Okay, Sarah’s going to get it.

    • joe says:

      Oh yeah. The Weight by The Band. Part of the soundtrack of my youth!

      Big Pink is still an underrated album.

    • Gord says:

      I was hoping to see Sarah’s flash face from Wedding planner again. LOL

      As for me, I didn’t really see the intersected Sarah coming until the final setup. Maybe I was just in denial thinking no they would do that would they? Well obviously they would and they did and it was awesome.

      • armysfc says:

        i wonder how awesome it will be when we watch sarah slowly become incapacitated by it over the next eps and possibly lose her memories of chuck? from the promo she gets it pretty good next week. sarah fans hate it when shes not at the top of her game.

      • MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

        They have to do something to her–to give her kryptonite. The Super Sarah I just saw could stand on the train tracks with her shoulder down to stop the bullet train.

      • atcDave says:

        Sarah was awesome butt kicking a whole squad at the end…

        But we’re really going to see her pay a price the next few weeks!

  7. herder says:

    So I think we may have an idea what the episode Chuck vs Sarah might be about. Good episode, another fun Jeff and Lester story, Vail Buy More was amazing as was Casey’s comment about never getting away from this place. Interesting to note that in season three one of the big beefs for me was the way the almost always ended on a down note but this year the endings have almost always been the best part of the episodes.

    • Gord says:

      Speaking of Jeff – is this the end of “normal” Jeff.
      I mean we saw him heading to Vegas for a wild weekend. If he starts getting into the booze and drugs again we might lose him.

      Also what if they stop at Los Vecas and he gets some of those mushrooms up in them there hills?

    • gameagain says:

      “So I think we may have an idea what the episode Chuck vs Sarah might be about”

      Skilless Morgan + corrupted Intersect = dangerous egotistical jerk
      Dangerous assassin Sarah + corrupted Intersect = powerful mega-ultra-superspy who may just want to KEEP her new God-like talents and Heaven help anyone who tries to take it from her

      Chuck vs. Sarah could very well become “epic” indeed.

      • herder says:

        Well I’m wondering if douchy Sarah, somewhat like douchy Morgan breaks up with the love of her life in a douchy way. Or if she becomes like damaged intersected Chuck and lies about what the intersect is doing to her like intersected Chuck was doing in season 3.5. My guess is that whichever it is the secret is that she was intended to be the intersect all along and the conspiracy was to get the intersect from Chuck into her all along. Further the CIA will be reluctant to remove it from her and it will be the Bartowski family that removes it and saves her.

      • armysfc says:

        herder i doubt she can lie to long to chuck when he see’s her fall to the ground and says try not to flash.

      • herder says:

        Army, the secret isn’t that she has the intersect but rather this was the plan all along, not that she knew that was the plan, she was a pawn. Then again this is all just speculation and wild a** guesses and could very simply be wrong.

      • armysfc says:

        sorry i misunderstood this, “Or if she becomes like damaged intersected Chuck and lies about what the intersect is doing to her like intersected Chuck was doing in season 3.5.”

        i am on board with her being a pawn i said that at the beginning of the season she may unknowingly be involved somehow.

      • herder says:

        You’re right, I misunderstood your comment, sorry about that.

      • atcDave says:

        Herder that is an awesome spec! Right now, I sort of wish they were giving us a three part finale send off next week instead of drawing it out another week…

  8. Gord says:

    I was really ticked off with the Detroit affiliate. They cut some of the show out to show previews of the Detroit auto show – not cool.

    • atcDave says:

      Yeah Gord, I think about two minutes worth.

      I was sort of saving this for another anti-broadcast TV rant on another thread. But this is why broadcast TV must die. I’m beyond annoyed with a local station interrupting the program I WANTED TO SEE for their own promotional purposes. Especially with Chuck not available from other sources this season, I won’t catch those two minutes (start of show, and after the first commercial break) until the discs come out. Very annoying.

      I much prefer the idea of pay-per-view a la carte where I can purchase the content I want; and have it be all about that content. No stinking commercials, or network watermark, or local weather alerts or auto show “news” interrupting what I want to see.

      • Aerox says:

        Dave, if you could specify which moments exactly, I can upload them on youtube for you tomorrow.

      • atcDave says:

        That would be great Aerox, thanks!
        It was the beginning of the show until Chuck and Sarah are sitting down on the couch together (maybe just the “important things you might have missed part?”). And again after the first commercial break, I need to watch again myself to be sure how much, but Sarah was already giving Chuck a hard time for his thoughts about Bo Derek so we clearly missed something, maybe 60 seconds worth?

      • Aerox says:

        I’ll just upload the first 5 minutes and that should be enough 😛

      • atcDave says:

        Awesome, guess I don’t have to wait for the discs!

  9. uplink2 says:

    Really good episode. Sarah with the Intersect was always something I wanted to see. I think we do kind of get the feeling where we are headed. The Intersect will probably damage Sarah’s mind, she will lose her memories and I thin there was a really important line in tonights episode that says everything about where we are headed.

    In the BuyMore Chuck told Quinn nothing good comes from it. He responded:

    “Look at your wife. Do you really thing you could get her without it?”

    That is the final arc. Sarah will lose those memories and she will fall in love with the Intersectess nerd anyway.

    • Aerox says:


      Seems plausible but I’d think it would be a bittersweet ending and I probably wouldn’t enjoy it.

      • uplink2 says:

        I do think that is the key line of the night though. Chuck gets the girl even without it. They have established the memory loss part of this Intersect so that will happen and it all seems to be focusing on getting them back together in the end. Bittersweet yes but I think that is the point.

      • uplink2 says:

        Plus it is a roundabout homage to Fedak’s favorite finale, Newhart.

      • jam says:

        If the show ends up with Sarah’s memories damaged in any way, I wouldn’t find it bittersweet, it’d be just awful, bad storytelling.

        At that point I’d just purge the whole show from *my* memories, completely.

      • Aerox says:

        Jam, it would be bittersweet as of COURSE the final seconds of the show would be Sarah remembering something. At least, that’s what my gut tells me. Thus the whole bittersweet ending.

        Having said that, I agree. If they go that way, it’s a terrible ending. I don’t know whether I would go through with deleting the entire series from my hard drive (my real hard drive mind you, not my brain. If only I could do that!), but it would invalidate SO much for me. I’m pretty sure that if it happens, I will be shouting something along the lines of: “What was the f****** POINT?!”

      • atcDave says:

        While I also would prefer a long and heartwarming denouement (like an entire episode worth!), I think it’s premature to say what’s a terrible ending. Again, if we have reason to think Sarah will regain more memories over time that works for me. I don’t need to see the full recovery process, just knowing Chuck and Sarah are together and happy about it in the end is good enough for me. In a nutshell, her character growth is a bigger issue than the specific memories. Just like Morgan seems to have completely returned to the more mature Morgan we saw at the end of S4, even though he lacks some specific past memories; I would be happy with a similar end for Sarah.
        If Sarah is perfect and whole in the end, even better. But Yvonne has repeatedly spoken of a non-physical loss suffered by the Bartowskis, I think something related to the Intersect is very likely. And for now, my assumption is that Morgan’s experience foreshadows Sarah’s. But I suspect Sarah’s will be a bit worse.

    • herder says:

      Bingo on the line, although it also works if Chuck loses his memories too.

    • MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

      It doesn’t make sense with the whole “secret” theme in the 5.12 synopsis… unless Sarah realizes she is slowly loosing her memories.

      • Gord says:

        The memory loss in Morgan was because he had a virus in his version. From what I saw in the promo, Sarah will have symptoms like Chuck had in tooth/subway/ring2. I’m thinking that the version of Intersect Quinn stole was the version before Ellie’s fixes. So Sarah needs a governor.

      • MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

        Some of Ellie’s fixes might have also required a governor. In A-Team, it looked like the Gretas were wearing governors. Party Morgan in this episode was wearing a big watch that might have been a governor. He was also wearing one throughout Frosted Tips.

        But, you’re right, Sarah probably ran off to save Chuck without stopping at home or Castle for a governor.

        We don’t know if these glasses has the virus or not. Someone is stealing, selling, and redistributing Intersect glasses. We don’t know if the person who sold to Quinn is the same one who provided the glasses that Morgan used.

      • uplink2 says:

        I think it is very possible if Sarah loses memories that Ellie will restore them by hypnosis. They established all of that tonight. I’ll give them credit they have put the pieces for this final arc in place in earlier episodes.

    • atcDave says:

      I think that could work quite nicely Uplink, I particularly like the idea of Sarah falling for Chuck all over again (it’s destiny…)

      But I do hope Sarah gets some memories back by the end. My version would be after the Intersect has partially ruined Sarah’s brain, Chuck is able to rescue her, help her get back healthy, she completely falls in love with her husband all over again, and then in the last scene they’re sitting on the beach together when Sarah remembers their first morning together again…
      That way we get the best of both worlds, an intense but satisfying main story, with a hopeful ending that it will all come back in time.

      Obviously, that’s pure speculation. It will be interesting to see how it plays out.

      • jam says:

        I have to disagree on that, I find any permanent memory loss unacceptable.

        If they had more time to deal with the storyline, maybe then… but they don’t.

      • atcDave says:

        Well again, my interpretation of the scene I described is that she will recover her memories. It’s fine with me if we don’t see the whole recovery process, I can fill in the blanks on my own!

  10. Gord says:

    Well this episode explains the spoiler Fedak teased about the return of Morgansect.
    I thought this was a great episode and I loved the twist at the end. I did not see that coming.
    I guess we now know what Sarah’s secret is -she’s the Intersect.
    A few points I liked
    – Ellie hypnotizing Morgan but going to far back – he asks her to the prom.
    – Jeff and Lester following them to Vale
    – Bo Derek with Morgan – I really expected Bolero to be playing in the background while they were making out – (Like in 10).
    – Morgan’s tattoo and Bo Derek being a villainous spy.
    – Vale Buy More being the alternate universe Burbank Buy More with a female Lester, a slightly older Jeff with hair, a Fernando clone and a Big Michelle with donuts and other pastries in the manager’s vault. I didn’t notice if there was a fish up on the wall, but there should have been.
    – Of course once again – Sarah getting the intersect. I’m wondering if the version of Intersect that Quinn stole is pre-Ellie fixes. If so Sarah will need a governor or else she will end up in the CIA nut house with Merlin.

    • MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

      From the promo, it looks like Sarah tells Chuck she’s the Intersect in 5.11. The 5.12 synopsis implies she still has the secret.

      I thought it was a cross between Fernando and Skip.

      I just checked, there was a ram head mounted on the wall.

  11. phaseou812 says:

    Really great episode in my books . . . would have loved to see that Bo and Alex meeting as well . . . since the new baddy had connections with all of the previous affiliated spy entities, through his counter intelligences company, maybe he has been the mastermind of these organizations whose sole intents have always been to get the intersect or make a new one. Obviously he would have to have contacts throughout multiple government organizations, both here and abroad . . . but regardless I was really excited with the episode. Looking forward to the final part of this ride . . . sad but excited at the same time.

    • MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

      Alex thinking Morgan made up the story was cute, but I would have liked to have seen Alex go possessive and threaten Bo (a “Stay away from my man!”), like any good Casey would do.

    • Shepperd of Lost Sheep says:

      Tonight’s episode clearly clears the way so that now Alex and Morgan can get married.

  12. Carlos says:

    Sorry to rain on everyones parade but DR from Chuckgasmic says it is a pretty sad ride from here on. And he is not lying.

    • Gord says:

      First off how would he know -we haven’t seen the episodes yet and even if he has been given the episodes in advance of the rest of us mere mortals -that is just his opinion. Every Chuck fan is going to react in their own way.

      I loved tonight’s episode, and from what I saw of the promo for the next episode it looks great too.

      • Carlos says:

        He has detailed inside info on the remaining episodes. I thought Fedak said season 5 would be a love letter to the fans. Those fans who like fun happy episodes have been well and truly shafted. So glad this show is ending now.

      • MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

        Like Gord said, everyone reacts in their own way. I cheered at the horrible cliffhanger at the end of Farscape (both leads appeared dead seconds after an accepted marriage proposal) because it was the producer’s way of sticking it to The Sci Fi Channel for canceling the show after previously promising another season. I seriously doubt I would react that way with Chuck, but there is no way for me to know from inside information. I’d have to see the final shows.

        I’ve liked the entire season, especially the last three. I’ve pre-ordered my Blu-Rays. If the last three are bad (the next one looks good so far), then I’ll just stop watching with 5.10. The first eight were worth the price of the set for me.

    • uplink2 says:

      I stopped caring what DR thought a long time ago.

      • Gord says:

        Yeah uplink2. I don’t even have his website in my bookmarks any more. I was regular visit on his website during the Chuckme mondays in the summer after S2. But I soon realized that to him there were 2 kinds of Chuck fans – those that agreed with him and those that were wrong.

      • atcDave says:

        Well he clearly likes upsetting ‘shippers. And since he’s been completely wrong about my reaction the season so far I’m truly not interested in what he thinks. Besides, I’m fine with a couple of downbeat episodes, I remain optimistic about the end.

    • andyt says:

      I would add that he has been wrong repeatedly in the past. If you had bet money on his so-called inside info on the the last two renewals you would be very broke right now. I say just watch and see.

      • armysfc says:

        sorry andy he posted 2 weeks before the season 5 renewal it was going to be renewed. how do i know? i posted it here as soon as he said it so you can look back through this blog and see if you want. he also posted a photo montage prior to season 4, the following pics were there, chuck and sarah in wedding clothes, the word greta and quite a few others that were spot on. sorry he maybe twisted in how he does it but most of the time he’s spot on. don’t get me wrong i’m not a huge fan but he does have some good insight.

    • herder says:

      I don’t want to slag DR as he clearly loves the show, but he does have a tendancy to go a bit overboard on the spoilers in a way that leads to the most dire of interpretations then cut people down who run in the direction that those interpretations lead. Personally I avoid his spoilers as they tend to reveal too much.

  13. andyt says:

    Fantastic episode. Was laughing and had my jaw dropping throughout the episode. The Jeffster material was a great send off for their antics. The doppleganger Buy More was so fantastic, as was Casey’s line, “I am never leaving here.”

    The Bo Derek material was stupendous, Seriously. What made it work was the reactions from everyone.

    Now we see how the final villian ties back into the very beginning of the show. Remember, Bryce was working with Orion to keep the Intersect safe. Now, you have the agent originally tasked with receiving it, he is the Omaha Project. The secret that Sarah has is that she was going to be part of that team.

    This also possibily ties into the “Goodbye”. Chuck may have to say goodbye to his and Sarah’s plans for the future and his family and friends because he has to be the Intersect both because he is the only one who can handle it and to protect it from anyone else getting it. He will be the living Intesect and it is his repsonsibility to protect it. This would be bittersweet, but happy for Chuck and Sarah as they are together. Also, it allows for us to believe that they have future adventures which Fedak has repeatedly said is the type of ending that he likes.

    Overall show continues the roll that it has been on. Great ending.

    • Carlos says:

      How can Chuck and Sarah being separated from their family and friends be a happy ending. Absolute garbage.

      • andyt says:

        I said happy in that Chuck and Sarah are together, but their plans for the future are taken from them. Also, the Woodcombs are moving on also as they have a “tremendous” opportunity that will be offered to them. It is like good dark chocolate sweet with a little bitter, but still satisfying.

      • MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

        Thanks, andyt. I just realized I didn’t have desert after my meatball sub. I think I have some dark chocolate somewhere.

      • MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

        I didn’t have dessert either.

      • atcDave says:

        I have no problem with them being separated from everyone else as long they’re together. But that isn’t really my expectation anymore. Although Ellie and Devon my be leaving in the end, I suspect Chuck and Sarah will still be together in Burbank at the end.

    • Gord says:

      I agree this was an amazing episode.
      As for Sarah not being able to handle the intersect – she might be able to with a governor.
      I also see the possibility that Chuck gets the intersect back, but also see Sarah keeping hers, with Chuck making her a governor. Then we have the unstoppable intersect team of Sarah and Chuck – the superman and supergirl of the spy world.

      • andyt says:

        This would be cool Gord. Also, it would fit the Goodbye they still have to be spies which torpedoes their plans for a normal life.

      • MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

        I think I remember a Fedak interview from a couple years ago where he said he liked the ‘continuing adventures’ idea. I always thought it odd that the push to the normal life theme in the show never lined up with that. Having them stay spies would fit the continue adventure idea, have them ‘lose’ the normal life, and might force them to say goodbye to Casey and Morgan, who are staying with Alex. I could see that.

      • atcDave says:

        That is close to what I expected earlier this season. Recently they’ve been pushing “normal” so much my expectations have changed some. But I would be completely satisfied if they ended as the super spy team after all.

  14. uplink2 says:

    Great line from tonight

    Casey “I hate Twitter” lol

  15. Carlos says:

    I don’t understand why some fans don’t want Chuck and Sarah to get a happy normal life with kids. They deserve to have that and thats what Sarah said she wanted.

    • uplink2 says:

      That’s easy to fix with a 2 minute scene at the end. An OC 5 years down the road kind of ending.

    • MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

      I can’t speak for others, but I’d be very happy to see them get a happy normal life with kids. I just don’t think kids and normal are required for them to be happy. Sarah has said she wants kids only recently. But since S2, she and Chuck have waffled more than most politicians about wanting normal.

      I think they could be happy either way, so I’d could be happy with either ending. As I’ve said before, I’m trying not to have a litmus test.

      • andyt says:

        Agree Jeff. I think it is best to just watch and not have a litmus test about what ending “we” want. Judge after.

      • atcDave says:

        Yeah ditto that Jeff. Either way works for me. Chuck and Sarah happy together in the end is my only requirement.

      • lappers84 says:

        Yvonnes comments about there being a bittersweet ending – Has she even seen the final episode yet? Has anyone? (Bar from perhaps some of the production team) they could easily add things in post production to make it better or worse we just don’t know what the last scene will be.

      • jam says:

        Where did she call the ending bittersweet?

        I’ve only seen her call it satisfying with the lead up to it being “almost slightly slightly tragic”, whatever that means. :p

      • lappers84 says:

        My bad, misread the article. Still I guess my comment still does apply.

      • atcDave says:

        A lot of us have used “bittersweet” as our own simplified interpretation of Yvonne’s comments. But of course “bittersweet” may prove to be even more misleading than Yvonne has actually said!

    • andyt says:

      I wouldn’t say that fans do not want Chuck and Sarah to have a normal life. People are speculating based on the episodes so far and the info dropped as hints by the creative people and the descriptions of upcoming episodes. Also, who is to say that the TPTB do not want to keep their lives open ended rather than closed. This would allow them to continue Chuck stories in other media such as comics or books as Star Trek, Star Wars, and Buffy have continued.

      Also, I have been watching episodes of the Six Million Dollar Man and the Bionic Woman. These were characters that they brought back for a series of TV movies in the late 80s and early 90s. Chuck could return in some fashion in a decade or so in such a way, so wouldn’t it be better to have a continuing adventures ending. I think people are just considering all possibilities.

  16. That was the best episode for Morgan Grimes …… maybe EVER!!!
    That was another really good episode for Jeff and Lester and Big Mike [ in a way].
    – I agree that we may not see them as active characters in a story again…. but we might get to see them in the grand finale.
    Interesting that we got to see Ellie this week – but not Devon. I enjoyed the last couple weeks where we had a chance to see them together often.
    Someone out there in this big wide virtual world – jotted down some thoughts about Sarah being incapacitated for another finale….. in a way to heighten Chuck’s hero journey….
    Well – whoever said that – might just get their wish….
    I really like the way the show has set the pieces in place –
    and now I’m looking forward to the sequence of moves that brings us to the end – this is gonna be quite a wild ride!………. ~ just say’n 🙂

    • Gord says:

      A wild ride indeed. I’m both excited and on the edge of my seat with anticipation, yet a little sad knowing that we are so close to the end of this amazing show.

    • awelle says:

      I wrote about Sarah being incapacitated again to give Chuck´s actions more weight somewhere, as I am sure other people did, because that has very much been a pattern for their finales and midseason finales since season 3.

      I don´t like that very much, though. So it definitely wouldn´t be a wishfulfillment for me, but I´ll wait if they make it somehow different and maybe pull it off in a really good way this time.

  17. MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

    Did anyone notice how both Chuck and Sarah were really big on the idea that Morgan and Alex really didn’t need to know or talk about “rainbows” (I didn’t like the euphemism) while they were broken up. I think just maybe Chuck and Sarah were projecting.

    • armysfc says:

      wow rainbows for hetro sex, really? guess they never saw the rainbow flag and what it stands for? and in hollywood no less? clueless.

  18. rac2873 says:

    I really did not enjoy this episode. I think based on the twist it is one of my least favorite episode in the whole series.

    Knowing all this is Morgan’s fault makes me want him dead. Now based on the promo alone looks like rogue Sarah vs Chuck. Sarah vs the Frosted Tips anyone.

    • Carlos says:

      DR said they gave Morgan the intersect because they had run out of storylines. Now Sarah getting some type of brain damage from the intersect is a rehash of Chuck’s intersect problems in season 3. Where is the originality, the creativity with this show now?
      So it looks like in the final 3 episodes we get maybe 1 or 2 minutes of satisactory not even happy ending. Fedak really sucks!

      • rac2873 says:

        Yup and the next three eps are supposedly sad. What a way to end a great show. So annoyed with Fedak.

  19. Gord says:

    A few things I learned from tonight’s episode

    1 – parents shouldn’t shoot paperboys
    2 – never say last mission
    3 – never let the bad guy get away.
    4. – If you ever need to get into the managers vault at a Buy More the combo is 1-2-3-4. I bet the password for the Buy More managers computer is “password” too.
    5 -. never trust Bo Derek.
    6. – Sarah looks amazing in a red nightgown (like what doesn’t she look amazing in?), even when she first wakes up. I guess Chuck is over the “red isn’t really my colour or salmon” thing.
    7 – A new title for Casey – Chief Googler, and a new title for Morgan – Funny bunny

    A few other observations
    Between Alex and Morgan there were a lot of rainbows flying around.

    Also noticed on rewatch – every time Jeff and Lester woke up in the car there was another buzzard added.

    BTW liked the Canadian flag on the car – nice touch.

    First time I watched I missed the rams head on the wall in Big Michelle’s office instead of Big Mike’s Marlin. I wonder if she got it on ebay too.

    This episode they managed to do a toyota and subway plug at the same time.

    • MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

      Good observations:
      1 – but spies can shoot paperboys
      5 – Morgan (and Alex) didn’t notice a lip tattoo for a couple of months?
      6 – The hooker outfit in Fat Lady and the belly dancer outfit in Seduction Impossible proved that

      More observations:
      The “Don’t Stop (Color on the Walls)” song is used in Nissan Versa ads. I wonder if Toyota minded?

      I guess money-strapped Carmichael Industries sold their plane.

      I thought it was cute how Sarah didn’t need a pillow.

  20. JC says:

    Liked the episode but I’m not sold on the ending and where it might lead. Not because of the story but whether these guys can actually pull it off.

    Question because my memory is a little fuzzy. In the pilot episode weren’t Beckman and Graham surprised that the Intersect was successfully loaded into a human brain? I might be wrong about that because Quinn’s about it being meant for him originally didn’t make sense to me.

    • atcDave says:

      Yeah JC in the first two episodes we were told the Intersect was never expected to loaded en masse to a single individual. But I believe some sort of mission loading was always the intent. So I think they envisioned an Intersect agent getting data and skills needed just for a particular mission, then getting a new download for the next mission.

    • MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

      It was a new science, so they didn’t know what to expect. A full download would not have been a first trial for an experiment under normal circumstances. The full 1.0 worked a lot better in Chuck than they ever could have hoped. He just wasn’t an agent like they expected.

      Quinn was broken, so we don’t know how accurate his interpretation is. He could have been the first Guinea pig which they didn’t care if he survived. He could have been one of a pool of agents that was going to receive mission downloads for tests. Now, he’s having delusions of grandeur. Quinn could be like an evil demented Wally Pipp: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wally_Pipp

  21. lappers84 says:

    If you take note that it’s pretty much stated that neither Chuck nor Sarah need anything special (they don’t need the house) as long as they have each other – I think the bittersweet ending will indeed be although they don’t get the dream life they want they still have each other. The question I hope they answer is what role were they planning to give Chuck in the project if Bryce hadn’t gotten him kicked out of Stamford- Also Quinn saying that Bryce stole the intersect for Chuck (did the CIA realise the Quinn was unreliable and that Chuck was always destined to be the intersect? Or Bryce being impulsive realise he made a mistake in kicking him out and decided he needed to have the intersect – he was the only one he could trust after all.) The theory about Sarah being part of the Project Omaha team makes sense – I guess we’re going back to the convos her and Bryce shared and the whole they’ll always have Omaha (Casey then telling Chuck it was probably code word. Relevant perhaps?) – did she know about the project but wasn’t aware of what it was?
    It seems Quinn new about Chuck all along – maybe even as far back as knowing he was Orion’s son. Hiring Fulcrum, The Ring and Volkoff industries (all somehow related to the intersect in some way) to get to him. I don’t know I’m in full speculation mode, that could be a load of rubbish.

  22. amyabn says:

    I’m not so sure how I feel with Sarah having the intersect. I get part of the reasoning to do the upload was to get Casey and her out of a seemingly deadly situation but I’m not liking the brain-melting after effects. I’m glad the preview shows her telling Chuck, but I hope we don’t get a return of insecure Chuck-he’s the normal guy with the super hot spy wife who just got even more awesome, and he’s still “normal.”
    The whole Bo Derek deal with Morgan was fun and Jeffster was really funny. Reminded me of Memento, where the guy wrote clues on himself. The Vail Buy More was funny and I loved the shoot out. I need to re-watch it again for more in depth review.

  23. sd says:

    Is it just me but has Zac Levi been fairly silent about promoting the show? It always seemed he was “front and center” for media interviews…it doesn’t seem the case.

    • atcDave says:

      Yeah we haven’t heard a lot from him. He’s had a lot of appearances lately, but hasn’t really been talking Chuck as far as I know. But geez, Yvonne has picking up the slack! And that’s kind of new, she used to be the quiet one.

      • armysfc says:

        Dave i think it’s just byproduct of her sobe campaign. last year zac got the questions due to tangled and ys was mostly quiet. in fact i bet that in the SI issues she’s in, there is a bit about chuck as well even though the show is over.

      • atcDave says:

        Yeah I know army, SoBe has helped promote Chuck a lot recently (it will be interesting to see if it actually helps number any!).
        Zach has had a few public appearances. I’m just not sure if he hasn’t had the opportunity to talk Chuck, if he’s planning on it more during the finale week, or if he’s already washed his hands of the whole deal…

      • armysfc says:

        any other season i would think yes at least a bit. each interview seems to contain, “with the show coming to an end or something similar, how may people tune in to catch the end of a series they have never seen? just a guess BTW

      • atcDave says:

        Army very few would turn in to a show they’ve never seen; but I would think quite a few might tune in to a show they used to watch or have occasionally watched when they know the big finale is coming.

      • ArmySFC says:

        Dave didn’t work. chuck pulled a .9 same as last week. maybe more will tune in to the finale?

      • lappers84 says:

        There was a small boost to ratings in last seasons finale, and if they actual prom it as the series finale (which I imagine they will – don’t know why they wouldn’t) perhaps it will peak former fans interests.

    • MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

      You’re right sd. It could mean something or it could mean nothing:
      – We’re not to the finale yet, so his promotion could be closer to the end
      – There was actual strategy (*gasp*), and they decided ZL’s promotion should not step on YS’s promotion
      – In the past, renewal was still in doubt, so ZL as motivated by that. Now his contract is over so why bother (assuming additional promotion is not in his contract).
      – YS’s comment (about hoping NBC doesn’t get mad at her for actually promoting the show that way because people might watch it) has some truth
      – He’s mad at what Greenblatt said at the TCA, so he is refusing to alert the masses
      – Interviews see is faux mohawk and cancel the interview
      – He’s been on vacation
      – He’s looking for a new job
      – He’s been getting busy with Betty White

      • sd says:

        Ha, MNIJNIL,

        He, apparently, kissed Betty White for her birthday show.
        It’s just been interesting b/c in the five seasons…ZL did all the “heavy lifting” and given his teary goodbye and Comic-Con I thought he would be all about promoting the final episodes. He has just seemed to be the consummate “team player” for NBC/WB as it relates to Chuck…can’t see him lashing out over Greenblatt’s comments.
        And yes, everyone is looking for that next opportunity.

  24. SarahSam says:

    I enjoyed the episode. Bo Derek a spy and hooking up with the “Party Intersect” . Hilarious. Alex certainly rebounded quickly from Morgan. Didn’t expect that from her, nor her rebound type. No wonder she can tolerate Morgan. Sarah intersecting herself. Wow. I guess we saw what the agencies projected with the planned upload of Larkin in S2. The intersect in a true superspy. As for Quinn being slated for the original intersect violating canon, does it really matter at this point? The story is already all over the place. Who has the confidence that they can tie it all in without a litany of diverse interpretations, myriads of speculations, retcons, things never shown and things never known.

    • ArmySFC says:

      funniest comment i have heard about quinn getting the intersect was, their plan all along was to put the intersect in a 50yo fat guy?

    • joe says:

      Hi, SarahSam. Yeah, I know what you mean about the canon violation. But if you’re going to do that kind of thing, I had a thought that makes it about the gentlest possible violation.

      I’m gonna let myself believe from the start that Quinn’s a megalomaniac. He thought he was going to be the Intersect, maybe. But the only way he could beat out Larkin for the job was in his dreams. It ate at him and tore him up and turned him into Shaw an evil ex-agent.

      • Aerox says:

        If Quinn isn’t cuckoo for cocoa puffs and his story is actually the way they’re going to go, they retcon the crap out of season 1

        Bryce told Chuck that he wasn’t rogue, that it was a mission given to him by Fulcrum (whom he thought were high ranking CIA officials) to steal the Intersect and deliver it to them (This was Operation Sandwall). However, he realized that Fulcrum was actually a splinter group so instead he chose to send it to Chuck whom he trusted implicitly and trusted him to do the right thing with it. So that invalidates Quinn’s claim that Larkin stole it for Chuck.

        The second thing he says is that he was the intended recipient of the Intersect but that would pretty much wipe away the entire notion that Chuck was going to be recruited seeing as how he could literally have nothing to offer that wouldn’t be better suited in an analyst role. So the question remains: Why would Bryce get him kicked out saying that he wouldn’t survive? The answer? He’d become a field agent. Why would he become a field agent? Well, they never said, but the logical assumption would be, because he scored ridiculously high on Fleming’s test, he would end up getting the Intersect and they’d wanted it in a trained field agent. So, applying Occam’s Razor to a TV show, the most logical assumption also invalidates Quinn’s storyline.

      • joe says:

        Ack! You’re making my head hurt, Aerox. Bryce had several things going on at once. The CIA was developing the Intersect, let by Orion (Perseus had a hand in it, along with other; I’m guessing that Ted Roark had some input too, since Stephen had worked with/for him at one point). Fulcrum “turned” agents, but they were CIA at one point, and that caused confusion in Sarah’s mind about Bryce’s intentions.

        And Bryce’s intentions are always murky, because he had to balance the interests of Orion, Chuck (his best friend), the CIA and his Fulcrum cover. There’s just no way to sort out how he had to compromise all that.

        And then there’s The Ring, which either was or became Fulcrum’s controlling force. We don’t have any idea how that worked or when it happened. We’re even allowed to believe they started out as part of The Ring, if we wish.

        The canon is intentionally obscure, Aerox! Plenty of room for our imaginations there.

      • atcDave says:

        Yeah Joe, I don’t think we ever have, or ever will have enough information about what was going on prior to 9/2007 to know if there’s an actual flaw there!
        Given that the Intersect was a multi-agency project (two we know of, possibly more), and each agency has different divisions and project teams its possible, even likely, that there were more different plans for the Intersect than any one individual could ever know about.

        It does seem likely Quinn is at least partially deluded. But there may be a kernel of truth in what he believes. Perhaps we was an important test subject, who was never inteded to go operational. Perhaps he really was the leading Intersect candidate at one point until Larkin displaced him (oh and I’d mention; he may have been far more fit before he got injured! not to mention at least five years younger). Perhaps he was the leading candidate according to ONE TEAM LEAD within the agency.

        Sorry if I’m being difficult about this. But I study history all the time and in depth. Complex events often have many layers and many issues behind them. I am not at all a fan of reletivism; but I have seen so much situational complexity.
        I think the historians response to Occam’s Razor would be “the simplest explanation generally misses the point.”

      • MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

        I feel like we need Obi-wan Kenobi to talk about a certain point of view.

        If anyone from the outside knew about Larkin and Chuck knowing each other, knew Larkin stole it, and knew Chuck got it, the obvious assumption would be he stole it for Chuck.

        Quinn said the “Intersect was supposed to be mine.” That sounds like either a crazy person or a whiny spoiled brat. Also, the CIA didn’t even know if it could be downloaded. (Orion never told anyone about his download). I guess I’m used to Stargate, where the megalomaniacal bad guys lied, even when the people listening knew the truth.

        Even if it’s true and he was supposed to get it, that just makes him aging agent/Guinea pig #1, who the CIA didn’t care if his brain was fried. After the Intersect computer was destroyed, Quinn’s story could have happened. Quinn would have been broken and become an independent contractor for the bad guys during S2. So far, his story hasn’t contradicted anything. It’s just additional information, not a retcon.

      • atcDave says:

        So what he said was true, from a certain point of view…

      • lappers84 says:

        Yeah there’s a lot in the Chuckverse that doesn’t make a whole lot of sense, but as Joe said I think it’s a case of using our imaginations. What is strange is early on Chuck mentions that Quinn hired Fulcrum (as well as the Ring and VI) but didn’t he say after Bryce stole the intersect for Chuck he went back to field work only to get captured for 367 days or so. When did he hire Fulcrum then?? since they already existed in season 1, hence the reason Bryce went undercover (unless he already established his freelance business and hired them early on in order to get hold of the intersect – but the CIA thought he was unstable and got Bryce to go undercover to retrieve it, things get messy and he sends it to Chuck.) – but why wouldn’t they just try to go after him all along. My brains starting to hurt.

      • ArmySFC says:

        Dave, i think the best way to view chuck is using the formula a+b=c. where c is what is shown on screen and a and b are personal choices on how they got there. IMO it is this ambiguity that has hurt the show and caused a divide in the fan base that started back in season 3. that’s just my opinion.

      • MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

        He didn’t hire Fulcrum. Fulcrum hired him. In the show, they say Quinn’s “list of clients” includes Fulcrum. So he was broken, started his business, and was later hired by Fulcrum. The timeline fits. Depending on how long it took to break Quinn and start his business, he could have been working for Fulcrum by mid to late season 2.

        Vincent could have even been working for Quinn. When Fulcrum hired Quinn’s business, they got Vincent. Since he was a subcontractor, he always wanted to be professional. Some people do want to see the Mummy come back…

      • BigKev67 says:

        I think you’re both being way too generous. Ambiguity that requires imagination is one thing. Flatly contradicting what’s been shown previously or forcing your audience to tie themselves in knots to make basic sense of things is something else again. The show does way too much of the second and it’s mythology is now shot to the point where you pretty much have to ignore it all.
        And I can do that, because I still enjoy the characters. But I still get grumpy sometimes that the writers made me do it. A serialised show has a responsibility to write a coherent mythology – and they just haven’t done it.

      • OldDarth says:

        FarScape Kev. FarScape. 🙂

      • atcDave says:

        I just don’t see much that’s truly contradictory. I see a lot of things that are counter-intuitive, but the vast majority can be explained if you’re willing to remove assumptions from from things we’d seen, and stick to the facts. Quinn said nothing that really upsets the apple cart. I’ve heard a lot of “it’s a total mess” sort of comments but not a single example that couldn’t be explained away.

        And oh-so-smart comments from ex-fans who officially gave up on this show at “Agent X” and promised to never watch again are never helping your case.

      • Ernie Davis says:

        Kev, not trying to be rude, just brief, and we can do this BTS if you want, but what flatly contradicts? I keep hearing this, and 9 times out of 10 it is people’s assumptions rather than what is on the screen. And yes, I get the frustration people feel at times, but this is not new.

        But there is another side to this.

        Let me ask you this. If Chuck had worked at the Burbank BuyMore for 5 years, how was it that he didn’t know Lou, the owner of Lou’s deli? How is it that she never knew who Chuck was?

        How did Orion escape capture by a half dozen fulcrum agents and fake his own death in Predator? That was kind of hand-wavey too, wasn’t it?

        Me? I just want to enjoy the end. People determined to be dissatisfied will be, but I have no time for them anymore. Chuck is what it is and that is what it will be. I like it, warts and all.

      • atcDave says:

        Sorry Kev, my last wasn’t really aimed at you.

      • BigKev67 says:

        Don’t need anyone to help my case Dave – perfectly happy to defend it myself. Not sure how OD recommending a show to me qualifies as a “smart” comment. I’ll leave you to try and defend that.

      • BigKev67 says:

        I think there are some contradictions – but as you say, we can deal with them BTS.
        In general, I think there’s a difference between accepting the flaws of the show (which I try to do) and defending them (which I can’t do). Your defence that “the mythology has always been poor” is true – but it’s not a strong defence. And once you’re 5 seasons in, cracks build upon cracks and the mental gymnastics required to hold things up becomes harder.
        Baby was an example for me. I gave up trying to reconcile that story. But I know I rewatched DeLorean and spent the episode wondering why Sarah spent her childhood with a criminal when it looks like she had a perfectly normal mother who could have taken care of her? So that episode was lessened for me.
        This stuff doesn’t ruin things for me the way it has for some. But it does mean that Baby went from being a potential series top 10 episode to something less. And it means that although I put up with it, I can’t defend it.

      • MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

        I really like Farscape. It’s in my top three all-time with Babylon 5 and Chuck. It is at times funnier than Chuck, although some of the humor is like Monty Python (i.e. over-the top and funnier the second time than the first.) The central relationship developed slower and had a serious head-fake, but it had fewer PLIs. Sometimes you don’t even realize it because it is covered in a sci-fi wrapper, but Farscape is much darker than Chuck. The main character really goes through the wringer and the stakes are higher (galactic war and main cast members die). Chuck’s technology is actually explained much better than Farscape’s. At one point a character says, “I’ve been around long enough to know how ignorant I am. I don’t assume the universe obeys my preconceptions. But I know a frelling fact when it hits me in the face!”

        While that advice is from a deposed emperor played by a puppet from Henson’s creature ship, maybe is good advice for Chuck viewers. At one point we thought only Chuck could take the Intersect. That was our assumption, but not the government’s or Fulcrums, because they were rebuilding the technology Bryce destroyed. Then we found out his dad had one for years. Other people attempted downloads. Shaw, the Gretas, Morgan, and Sarah were successful. The technology improved. It is obvious now that other people can download it. They just might have problems more quickly or more severe than Chuck’s problems in S3.5.

      • MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

        BigKev, two answers to your DeLorean question were in the show:
        1) Sarah was a criminal, too. Sarah has said in the show that she was on the run with her dad. If Sarah tried to stay with her mom, she might have been arrested.
        2) Little Sarah showed in Wedding Planner that she had no problems running away so she could share adventures with her dad.

      • BigKev67 says:

        But the questions go back further than that. If we take the story at face value, then Jack, with a dubious past and no paternal streak, would have got custody of Sarah over a mother who seems perfectly normal? It’s not an impossible scenario, but there comes a point where questions just beget more questions and it becomes easier to handwave the lot and save yourself the trouble.

      • atcDave says:

        Kev you don’t have to like anything you don’t like; but two things about Baby. First, Emma did say “you were always running off with your father…” Legally little Sarah (or Sammie or whatever) was probably considered either a runaway or an abducted child. Its not that hard to construct a scenario where Emma had a hard time keeping track of her (working mom, not in the house much, Sarah/Sam gets bored and prefers dad’s adventures, etc). Second, we’re talking about 17 years of minority. Sarah likely spent chunks of time with both parents, court approved or not (infact, I’d assume no court ever gave Jack any sort of custody). And she may have felt unsatisfied or restless with both.

        Again, I haven’t heard a single complaint that is any more difficult than that to explain. We’ll never know all the answers, but then Chuck isn’t a Ken Burns documentary either. There’s going to be holes and questions on occasion. Its completely fine if you or any viewer doesn’t want to take the time to make sense of them. But that isn’t a flaw in the story-telling so much as a choice. I admit I get pretty irate about some of the little kinks that diminish the characters sometimes, that’s more my pet peeve. But even then the writing I dislike CAN usually be rationalized both to the character and the story (I disliked Chuck’s behavior in Curse. But it isn’t really fair to call it inconsistent or poorly written. They were merely playing up a recurring aspect of the character I don’t like).
        And I would take Ernie’s comment about weak mythology not be an admission of any particular flaw. But rather that the story doesn’t focus on mythology. It isn’t mythology driven. So the writers will never put their major effort into explaining background details. Again, that doesn’t mean any detail is wrong, only that they’re submerged in the story and will never pointed out. Chuck wasn’t going to grill Quinn about when he knew Bryce, what program he was attached to, or when he gained so much weight. The show is about the characters, the emotion, and sometimes the humor. With this cast its what they will always be best for, so that’s where the major effort will always be spent.

      • MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

        Good thoughts, Dave.

        However, I know exactly when Quinn gained weight. After winning freedom for Scotland at the Battle of Bannockburn, he rested on his Throne and stopped eating Subway sandwich. Then again, Braveheart was named the second most inaccurate historical movie of all time, so I might be wrong about that.

      • CaptMediocre says:

        I’m afraid I’m with BK on this one.

        Using your imagination is one thing, and it’s certainly required when watching a show with an “intersect”.

        However asking the fans to hernia themselves by reaching to fill in the blanks so that the story makes sense is not right, because it’s their job to fill in those blanks, at least to the point where we all see somewhat the same story.

        This was never an issue when they were doing 2, 3, 4 episode arcs. This really became when TPTB changed their storytelling ways to season long arcs by overly backloading the story.

        S5 is a prime example. The Decker conspiracy stuff was completely cut at the knees in 5.07. In 5.01 Decker sat around a table of high ranking types saying that Chuck must fail. Why? Because Shaw said so? Fitting Shaw into the story I’m sure “looked good on paper”, but essentially rendered everything “Decker” useless.

        I hope their done dealing with the “time before Chuck” stuff because, let’s face it, they don’t do it well. It’s does appear that at least these final 4 episodes are their own self contained story and aren’t backload heavy, so that I can continue to “lift heavy objects” after the end of the series. 😉

      • CaptMediocre says:


        I hear what your saying and I understand it. But why do we “amateurs” have to “construct a scenario”? Why can’t the “professionals” tell / explain to us why Sarah was with her Dad and not “the walking hug”?

      • atcDave says:

        Jeff I’m no expert on Scottish history, but I believe one of the major problems with Braveheart would be that the British isles were still half in the Dark Ages! Kings often didn’t even have a scribe for anything other than book-keeping. Very hard to reconstruct a story from folk lore and ledger books.

        Then add to that the sort of cinema story-telling we get in Ridley Scott’s Robin Hood or Disney’s Pearl Harbor and well….

        I’m not convinced Braveheart did any worse than any of the rest of them. And it was a lot of fun, so what the heck.

        And I’ve seen that Subway sandwich scene in the Director’s cut. Very compelling stuff.

      • MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

        Not to be a broken record, but the answers were in the show:
        1) Sarah was a criminal, too. Sarah has said in the show that she was on the run with her dad. If Sarah tried to stay with her mom, she might have been arrested.
        2) Little Sarah showed in Wedding Planner that she had no problems running away so she could share adventures with her dad.

        Sarah was around her mom some. Emma said she grew up “mostly with her father,” not exclusively with her father. Emma was around her enough to know she was “always a tough little thing” and she “kept mostly to herself.”

        I always love the flashbacks in Chuck. For me, the scene at the end of Cougars is what changed Chuck from a show I liked and didn’t get around to removing from my DVR into a “Wow, that’s a great show!” Knife-throwing, teenage Sarah didn’t look like someone Emma could control.

      • atcDave says:

        Capt Med its just a decision on how much time and detail they want to invest in data. Seriously I’ve not encountered a single fan outside of the Internet who had any such problems. It just doesn’t strike me as a big deal to fill in the blanks. Shows that invest too much time in such details quickly get boring to me. And besides, there’s always another level of depth to explore. I mean I have read books about WWII naval combat that are 60 pages with lots of pictures; and books on the same topic that fill 6000 pages with tiny text and no photos (Samuel Eliot Morison’s “US Naval Operations in WWII”, really a “must read”, especially vol.12 on Leyte, WOW!). Both books may be “accurate”, it’s just a matter of details. Television tends to be more like the 60 page picture book and is best enjoyed in that perspective. If you really require something with a little more attention to detail I’m sure you can find shows that are accommodating. But I watch TV like the picture book, I think books are better suited to excruciating detail.

      • MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

        In case people are interested (yeah, right): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Braveheart#Historical_accuracy
        The 2nd worst claim is from a London Times article which is no longer available online.

        I still liked the movie.

      • atcDave says:

        Jeff it was Cougars for me too. That end scene is when Chuck went from being a fun show to something really special!

      • BigKev67 says:

        I guess for me it comes down to this. I think if you’re writing a backstory you have to know that some basic questions are going to be asked – and they have to be answered.
        Sarah is who she is because she spent her formative years on the run with a criminal, thus developing trust issues and Daddy issues. So you have to explain where the mother was, and why she’s with Dad – because if you don’t do that, you’ve only told half the story. And you have to know as a writer that people are going to ask that. You can choose to ignore the question completely – but if you raise the question and don’t answer it, that’s the worst of all worlds.
        It’s Chuck. The answer doesn’t have to be complex and Fringe-like. But it does have to pass a basic smell test. Otherwise it becomes a distraction. The fact that Jeff had to write two fics to explain the story, and that 30-odd percent of the posts I saw on all boards on Baby were about the plotholes rather than the episode, suggests to me that it failed the smell test. And that’s a pity, because as I said, there were moments in Baby that were worthy of this show at it’s best.

      • atcDave says:

        Again Kev, the answer was right in the episode. Emma said “you were always running off with your father…” They gave exactly the simple explanation people seem to be claiming they want. And Jeff’s fic filled some holes nicely, but his whole point was he didn’t have to change any detail that had been given. All the information was right there, he just organized some of it in an entertaining manner. We can always dig deeper into a story than what is given to us in 43 minutes of screen time. I loved Jeff’s scene of Emma meeting the whole extended Bartowski clan; but there’s no way a cute scene like that makes the cut for precious screen time, that’s just the nature of the medium.

        BTW Jeff, very interesting piece on Braveheart, I loved the first line about how it was based on 15th century poem. (so a literary medium with no documentation of its own written 100+ years after the events served as an “inspiration”…)
        Braveheart was a good story. And it was historyish. I would have liked it better if not for the claim Robert the Bruce hi-jacked the Intersect intended for William Wallace…

      • MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

        Kev, Sarah’s Mom vs Sarah’s Family was written as fun fluffy missing scene. If it was included in the show, it would have destroyed the flow. Only Sarah vs the Phantom Retcon was written as a narrative for the plot hole debates I’d been having here.

        I completely agree Chuck has always had plot holes. Most TV shows do under close inspection. I like making up stories for some of he plot holes on Chuck, so they don’t bother me too much. I can see how they could bother people, though. The saying goes that the novel is always better.

        The more common reaction after Baby and Bo, however, is claiming retcons, not plot holes. Those episodes had plot holes, but not retcons. Some of the claimed “plot holes” are really unanswered questions that might be answered in the final episodes. Some of the claimed “plot holes” are because viewers are ignoring or forgetting things that were actually in the show. I’m sure some of the plot holes will remain actual plot holes when the show is over. They will continue to bug some people, while people like me will continue filling in the blanks.

      • armysfc says:

        Dave i’m not trying to be a smart ass here. isn’t this discussion similar to the season three one? people didn’t get what they wanted, they changed how characters acted, changed the tone? they pretty much blew off most of the ground work they laid in the first two seasons plus other reasons. this caused a rift in the fan base. this is of course based on what i have read here and other places.

        to some folks they have done the same thing here with several episodes. i don’t need a lot of details as you say, just know the product they put out. take the last scene in baby for example. all they had to do was look at what was previously shown and make sure that it fit perfectly, not with a lot of if’s and buts. one line could have changed that secne so there would be no confusion. grahm says to sarah, nice job on saving the general, mr bartowski is your next assignment. that explains the intersect device on the desk plus shows she was hand picked for the job. from what i can tell if it doesn’t appear it will come up again so it maybe a wasted scene that only caused confusion among fans.

        if they don’t think the mythology is that important then cut it back but make it good and expand on what they do best, the characters. do more talks between chuck and sarah and so on. do couples nights. do what they do best and stay away from what they don’t. it would paint a better picture don’t you think?

      • atcDave says:

        Army some folks did try to find a whole host of plot flaws or issues with S3. But to me S3 failed as entertainment. I don’t know or care about continuity issues or retcons or plot holes in S3, that has never been my point. It failed me as entertainment pure and simple. My complaints center on two related issues; the changed the tone of the show to something darker than it had been, and they dragged the wt/wt out a season too long. Sometimes we talk (mostly kidding) about how we could “fix” S3 in one way or another. But those fixes are not about logical, technical, or plot problems. They are all to fix entertainment problems for a number of us.

        The bottom line of what I’m trying to argue here, really about both S4 and S5, is that the plot issues of the show haven’t changed. It has always been (well, maybe except for S3…) a light hearted adventure tail with well conceived and portrayed main characters that are the primary hook. Love it or leave it based on what it is. Don’t try to harness it with heavy mythology requirements that its never aspired to and then criticize it for failing the test. Or don’t decide to start picking on story holes or omissions of the sort that have always been present and claim the show is less than it used to be.

      • Aerox says:

        Let’s be honest people, Wallace (Gibson, whatever)’s speech is brilliant!

      • Aerox says:

        Also, a few more notes:

        – Baby’s final scene could’ve been fixed by changing: “…be one of your own.” to “… go solo.” Same implication, different wording, no flaws.

        – A show is doing it wrong when my first impulse is: “Oh wait, that totally doesn’t fit with what I know of the show.” If it ends up fitting anyway, that’s great, but it seems like the wrong course of action if your viewer is conflicted over these things. Don’t get me wrong, I love the show, still do after all these episodes, but it’s becoming rather cumbersome to keep thinking to myself: “This doesn’t fit in the slightest!” I tried not doing that, but that didn’t go so well 😛

        – So we’re never told explicitly, but it seems that Emma lives in California. And we’re not told of any crimes Sarah might’ve commited there. So if that’s the case, why didn’t she go to live with her mother after Graham arrested Jack? Why did she listen to him and join the CIA? Also, inb4 people saying: “Because she wanted to have a purpose in life.”

      • MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

        Army: “one line could have changed that secne so there would be no confusion. grahm says to sarah, nice job on saving the general, mr bartowski is your next assignment.”

        That theory is possible, but has more plot holes than what they showed. It would require Sarah flying to DC and back between the beach seen (in the morning) and Chuck’s next shift. It would have to be night time in DC (no fast plane excuse–Sarah was at the beach all night), so Chuck would have have to have had a day off. At the time, the CIA didn’t trust the NSA, so someone from the CIA’s LA field office would have been dispatched to guard Chuck.

        “that explains the intersect device on the desk”
        Those already made sense. In the initial feedback for Baby, a lot of viewers didn’t see the device, leading them to think the Intersect had not been destroyed before that conversation.

        ” plus shows she was hand picked for the job.”
        That is clear in either case.

        The important thematic parts of the scene were Sarah’s statement about the CIA not losing her (she had nowhere else to go since she could no longer could return to her mom) and Sarah not wanting to be manipulated by people (which ties in with Chuck and Sarah not returning to the CIA).

        Aerox: “- Baby’s final scene could’ve been fixed by changing: “…be one of your own.” to “… go solo.” Same implication, different wording, no flaws.”

        The line is “In fact, I think it’s time for you to become one.”

        The Pilot’s blue ring flash on the parking lot fight and the Helicopter’s flash on the French assassins implied she sometimes worked solo. Even the CAT Squad episode implied the CATs worked solo. The initial scenes showed them working independently. When Zondra and Sarah were fighting and figured out who the mole was, they figured it out because the were all in different cities at the time.

        The problem here is a lot of people assumed “handler” meant one thing. Chuck was called a handler in Nacho Sampler when they were trying to cultivate him as an asset, but he wasn’t one yet and they thought he might be an enemy. Ryker was called a handler when he was the field agent-in-charge. Those examples show the writers never meant it to mean the narrower definition and had no idea what a small set of fans assumed (I say small because 95% of viewers don’t care). There’s something wrong about arguing about English definitions of words being used in a technical or organizational context. Americans are always force fitting words like that, and it’s not going to change.

        “So we’re never told explicitly, but it seems that Emma lives in California.”
        Yes. Team B drove, so she could be in Nevada, but is far most likely in California.

        “And we’re not told of any crimes Sarah might’ve commited there.”
        Teenage Sarah seemed to think she was part of what the ATF and CIA arrested her dad for. We know she robbed armored cars. If any of the money was owned by a bank, the crime was Federal. They knew her aliases. She have to create a new alias.

        “Why did she listen to him and join the CIA?”
        Sarah initially put out her hands to be cuffed and taken away, in order to save her life. After seeing her dad arrested, she was pretty easy to manipulate. That said, we know that Sarah’s mom knew either Sarah’s voice mail or cell phone number, which was very likely different in 1998 than in 2007. So Sarah was in some kind of contact with her mom. Maybe she did go live with her mom for a few months after Jack was arrested and before she graduated and started CIA training (or Harvard, if the web site info is canon).

        “I love the show, still do after all these episodes, but it’s becoming rather cumbersome to keep thinking to myself: “This doesn’t fit in the slightest!””
        I think that’s a danger of really looking in depth at episodes like die-hard fans do. It’s also a dander of reading fan fiction. They color our perceptions. Baby and Bo fit if you just look at the TV shows themselves. There’s still plot holes, but those are holes not contradictions.

        The most implausible stuff I’ve seen is computer “magic” and near light speed travel, which are problems in all shows. Even the Omen virus was better than the last Bones episode, which had a computer virus encoded as ridges in the bones of a corpse. Ignoring the fact that scan data is never run as code, the worm would have required a Trojan horse program (which Angela wouldn’t have run), a virus (which they said it wasn’t), or the hacker himself to launch it (which he didn’t) inside a secured network. That’s a typical TV show mistake, until they made a point of correcting the term from a virus to a worm. Occasionally using wrong technical terms gets a pass from me. Intentionally “correcting” to wrong terms is annoying. It was like Castle correcting “who” and “whom”, but making the same mistake himself a few episodes later. Sorry, I digress…

      • Aerox says:

        Okay, so we change the line to: “In fact, I think it’s time that you get another solo mission.” or something along those lines 😛

        I suppose the whole handler thing COULD work if you were to assume that he was talking about Chuck being a mark, but that’s the thing. This was never told. All the marks weren’t having a handler assigned to them, but an agent. At least, that’s what we were told. Add to this the 4 years of handler having this very specific definition attached to it and it’s easy to see how many people who have claimed to have an issue with it, could be mistaken.

      • MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

        Aerox: “All the marks weren’t having a handler assigned to them, but an agent. At least, that’s what we were told.”
        When were we told this? Agents and handlers are not mutually exclusive. A football players can be named captain, but they are still football players.

        “Add to this the 4 years of handler having this very specific definition attached”
        When was handler specifically defined? I remember Sarah saying in Seduction that a relationship between an asset and his handler would be unprofessional, but that does not limit or narrow the definition of handler. During the 49B, Forrest wasn’t just handling Chuck. She got to decide how the mission went down, what Casey did, and what Sarah did. She “handled” the mission and called the shots, very much like Ryker did.

        This is starting to remind me of a friend who was a bank teller–I mean a “global financial relationship manager.” She thought the title was stupid too. Handler is just a word. The show has shown us what that job responsibility means for to the CIA in the Chuck universe.

      • armysfc says:

        Jeff… you said, ” me “that explains the intersect device on the desk”
        you “Those already made sense.” no it didn’t. casey found the device on bryce. he still had it the next morning when he showed the folks in the room. nothing they showed lead me to believe he lost possession or sight of it at anytime before that meeting. does the casey we know from that time seem like the person to let important stuff out of his sight? casey providing the la location strengthens that idea.

        the meeting with grahm took place at night. so it would have had to take place before she left DC to arrive there the morning chuck woke up after getting the intersect. that would be the night bryce stole it. grahm could not have had the device because like i just said casey had it or had eyes on it from what they showed.

        i’ll be honest here, if you can give me an explanation not using theories and things not shown, but actual things we saw in an episode i will agree with you 100% that it was not a retcon/plothole. this is the last i’ll input on this because it getting to the point of beating a dead horses bones to dust. i’ll admit we didn’t see casey with it all the time but we didn’t see him with out it either.

        with more thought here is a better way to handle it. from nacho we know a agent called and gave her the information on chuck including his picture leading the viewer to again believe she was already there. do another flash back scene. sarah at her place gets a video call from grahm. he tells her the intersect was stolen and they found this at the scene (holds up the device) they think the location is in la and for her to head there. he tells her more information will be given to her when they get it. the call in nacho still fits, she’s near la from the baby. it takes away the handler issue, makes the device on the desk fit because it is after he was shown the device by casey. you’ll probably find holes but that’s ok it’s just a rough idea, lol. my reasons for her being near la are later in this post.

        on a side note after writing all that i think people misunderstood the intent of that scene. i did until now anyway. the pilot never explained how sarah just happened to be in cali the morning she showed up. following the scene where they pretty much made it look like her mom was near her in cali (why would the meeting place for her to meet sarah be hours away at sarahs place if the crap hit the fan? sarah is smart and the meet would be fairly close.) they were trying to show she was already in cali or real close because she just dropped off the kid. that’s what i got now anyway.

        it has been fun discussing this but i’m done now!

      • atcDave says:

        So just to get this strait army, you’re drawing a conclusion based on your own interpretation of events that is now in direct contradiction to canon and you’re calling the show flawed for that? BTW, I’d draw an exact opposite conclusion about the chain of custody. Casey “knowing” the e-mail was sent to CA basically proves to me it was out of his possession for a significant period of time while the tech experts fiddled with. Graham getting a look at it during this time seems perfectly plausible.

      • MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

        Army: “nothing they showed lead me to believe he lost possession or sight of it at anytime before that meeting. does the casey we know from that time seem like the person to let important stuff out of his sight? casey providing the la location strengthens that idea.”
        How did Casey find the “trace signature” led to LA? Emails don’t have physical addresses. The device also smoked and the screen went blank before Casey got to it. I seriously doubt Casey has the skills to hack into a burned out device. Casey occasionally shows some computer skills, but that’s very rarely. The Chief Googler has many times looked down his nose at that type of thing. That sounds like a job for a tech.

        “from nacho we know a agent called”
        Actually, we just know a guy called. It could have been an analyst, agent, or assistant. The voice is uncredited.

        “the pilot never explained how sarah just happened to be in cali the morning she showed up.”
        We don’t know if she flew there or if she happened to already be there. However, the flight time from DC to LA (flying commercial, not the F-22s we talked about earlier) is about 5 hours. My fic covers one of many time lines that easily works. (The SR-71 record from West to East is 64 minutes. It’d be slower against the jet stream, but with one of those she could have landed before she left, factoring in the 3 hour time zone change. It would still be dark in LA. She then could have caught Chuck before Morgan woke him up if it weren’t for LA traffic. But that doesn’t fit with her initial plan to keep her CIA affiliation a secret.)

        Your idea isn’t to far off, Army. I see a logic problem. Sarah didn’t want Graham to know where the baby might me. If he knew she detoured to LA, he might get suspicious. So he couldn’t redirect her from her mom’s to Burbank. Plot holes can be filled in many ways. You’re filling small plot holes by creating a otherwise non-existent retcon.

        it has been fun discussing this but i’m done now!

      • ArmySFC says:

        Dave not the show just that part, just making that clear. this just what kev and others were saying about the ambiguity causing issues for people. i’ll be honest all the ideas here are plausible, jeff’s yours and mine. plus they all make sense don’t they? none of them can be really proven to be false if you look at it with an open eye. there is just to much room to wiggle things in. like the device. i don’t think casey would leave it while the tech’s were looking at it. you think casey turned it over to the NSA tech’s who then gave it to grahm who then gave it back to the tech’s. both are completely acceptable to me, but which one is right? we’ll never know will we? that’s why some of us call retcon and some of us don’t. in both cases it’s a matter of what we chose to believe to make the story work or not work for us. and to me that’s the issue.

      • atcDave says:

        No army the problem is that’s a totally bogus retcon. There’s no wiggle room or interpretation about it. We were shown something to be true in canon. It may be slightly different than some long standing assumptions, but it does NOT contradict anything that’s actually been shown to us (as opposed to viewer inferences).

        There actually are nits we can pick in canon. Some issues involving travel times and character ages are clearly a little confused. But calling a retcon where there is none is just making trouble.

  25. SarahSam says:

    Hey joe. Apparently, we have never had complete knowledge of the events and history of the intersect and all new revelations can be plugged into the gray areas therein. I love it. All I know is I know nothing.

  26. Ernie Davis says:

    I don’t think these will count as first reactions since I’ve already watched twice, but I have a few thoughts to share.

    Structurally this episode reminded me of Business Trip (appropriate since Kristin Newman wrote both). A fairly straightforward mission to wrap things up, with a complication or two, only to have the last few minutes blow your mind. For the first part you have the standard team dynamic, with some of the teasing and the banter, and a little mishegas on Morgan’s part. In addition this was one of the funnier and lighter episodes. The writers on this one got in their meta-jokes and their homages like crazy.

    The Memento references were flying (maybe a HT to Carrie Anne Moss?) with the short term memory loss the tattoos and the body as the perfect place for notes, and Jeffster continually trying to reconstruct their timeline. It was also a nice parallel to the A-plot of Morgan’s lost weekend.

    Too many great one liners to count. From Sarah’s one last mission, “Is this because of some stupid movie?” to Casey’s “I hate twitter.” Morgan professing his Ellie-love again was also a nice callback.

    Oh, and Bo Derek absolutely nailed the role of Bo Derek.

  27. atcDave says:

    Over four thousand hits on ChuckThis Blog on Saturday 1/21/2012. We haven’t seen this kind of traffic in a loooong time. Very exciting stuff!

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