Extra, Extra!

Thank-Yous all around

Twitter has been jumping this morning for #Chuck fans with links to Zap2it, which contains some wonderful information about the Chuck Season 5 DVD and Blu-Ray release, scheduled for May 8.

But that’s not all. Besides the fact that you can enter to win the combo-pack AND a Blu-Ray player (which is cool) and besides the fact that you can see a great video from the cast, they say this…

[The] Blu-ray and DVD on May 8 and includes all 13 episodes from Season 5, plus over 3 hours of never-before-seen bonus features, including an extended version of the series finale episode, 6 all-new featurettes, 2 full-length commentaries, deleted scenes, gag reel, and more!

(emphasis mine!)

Well, I’m a Luddite, I don’t have a Blu-ray player (I’m “so 5 minutes ago”), and I have a feeling that the extra 3 hours comes only on that version (but I’m hoping not). If that’s the case, I would personally appreciate any and all of our readers who want to tell us about those features!

You can always write in our comment sections, or, if you prefer more anonymity, you can email us an chuckthis at gmail dot com. Your words will arrive in the form of smoke signals, which Ernie can read.


Oh, and the thank-yous? You can see the short clip at the zap-2-it link above, or you can see the extended version from YouTube below.

And my personal thanks to MyNameIsJeffNImLost for sending that link to us!

– joe


About joe

In my life I've been a professor, martial artist, rock 'n roller, rocket scientist, lover, poet and brain surgeon. I'm lying about the brain surgery.
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85 Responses to Extra, Extra!

  1. atcDave says:

    You know Joe you can get a Blu-Ray player for about $60, and they’re all backwards compatable with DVD and CD so you don’t even need multiple players in your rack. The 1080p picture is pure bonus, and if you don’t have a TV that can display it now, the player will still be there whenever you get one!

  2. I think the uploader ran into a 10 minute limit. The ZapIt link has the last 2:10 seconds of the youtube video, plus an extra 10 seconds or so.

    Blu-Rays also help you be lazy because you don’t have to get up and change the disc as often. Chuck Season 3 was my first Blu-Ray-only package.

    The gag reel was leaked right after the finale, along with the fantastic 1-2-3 Goodbye tribute: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qP9axgRLFEU

    • joe says:

      Oh, that was cute. Thanks again, Jeff.

      Oh – Could it be that this follows immediately after the first? That would explain the funny cut-off.

  3. Thanks for the update/info Joe.I am hoping one of you technically “savvy” guys can HELP!!!

    I loved the finale,with the only proviso that I have so far only been able to watch the entire series 5 on short 3 or 4 minute clips on you tube!!To make matters worse,it appears that season 5 will not now be shown in the UK,nor is there any proposed date or even indication that Amazon UK will release a region 2 DVD.
    Can anyone let me know if the US Blu-ray is region free and capable of being played on a standard Blu-ray player in the UK,and if so, if there is any retailer in the US from whom it can be safely ordered?As far as I am aware.Amazon US will not ship outside America.
    I don’t ask much,do I!!

    • Amazon says its region free in the “Product Details” section. Other seasons were region free on BluRay.

      I don’t know who would ship outside the US, but I’d try googling “chuck season 5 blu ray” then clicking the “Shopping” link on the left (assuming that works outside the US). For me, that lists buy.com, Walmart, Target, Barnes and Noble, Fry’s and J&R–all large retailers that I’ve purchased from online or in brick and mortar stories.

  4. MyNameIsJeffNImLost-many thanks for your kind and swift response.I shall try all of the above suggestions to try to get season 5 at the earliest possible opportunity.Then I might be able to post with all you guys&gals on an almost equal footing!!!

  5. Gord says:

    Over 3 hours – I would like to say Awesome, but as Det Slaughter said on Castle, grown men don’t use awesome.

    So how about that’s frakin amazing.

    • joe says:

      Slaughter said that? They don’t use “awesome”? SINCE WHEN???!!! Gotta have Casey have a talk with that guy.

      [Joe gets penalized 10 yards for excessive use of punctuation.]
      I’m so looking forward to that. I noticed that they’ve been routinely putting 3 or 4 episodes per DVD disk, so I’m guessing episode 13 is a bit left-over. They’ll start a new disk with it and have tons of space (yeah, Ernie. Astronomers measure “space” in units of tons too!) left over. That’s where I’m hoping the bulk of those three hours.

      • Slaughter quote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jsy-YrfsBA4

        According to Amazon, the DVD package is 3 discs, which is tight. Note that for season 1 there were 4 discs. That would may me concerned about the transfer quality if they overcompressed. However nbcuniversalstore.com says 5 discs, which seems far more likely.

        Amazon BluRay package says it’s 2 discs, but nbcuniversalstore.com says 4 dics, which is the same as the 24 episode season 4. Again, I think Amazon is wrong.

        BTW, the rate at which you travel tons of space is measured in parsecs.

      • joe says:

        Oh yeah. I remember the scene now. I remember thinking it was a nod to Chuck fans when I saw it. Thanks, Jeff.

        And that’s great info about the S5 release. I can’t imagine they put 13 episodes plus 3 hours worth of extras on 3 DVD disks. The physical disk and any extra packaging costs pennies – the extra compression wouldn’t be justified on a cost basis, I suspect.

        I think you’re right – Amazon got it wrong.

      • Ernie Davis says:

        Season 1 with 13 episodes and extras was 4 DVD’s. Season 5 will have 14 episodes (extended cut finale, remember?) For BRD one disk is 25GB I believe. Recorded in mpeg-2 an HD episode of Chuck is about 4GB, without commercials so figure 14 episodes and you are only at 56GB. Three hours of extras puts you around 73 GB.

      • ***Technobabble warning***
        Dual layer disc can store 50GB. Even if the finale is available as both original and extended cuts, it wouldn’t be two complete recordings. DIscs support skipping control so parts can be skipped without reencoding the entire episode. It’s like how different languages do not require complete copies of the video. The data is separated and the disc tells the player which parts to put together.

        BluRay typically uses H.264/MPEG4 AVC. MPEG-2 was used in first gen blu-ray, and a VC-1 encoding was sometimes used. MPEG-2 is lossy. MPEG4 supports lossless compression. The size depends on several factors, including the audio encoding and how well the video compresses. Here’s a bunch of examples: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=760714 4 episodes of Firefly, encoded with AVC and DTS audio take up 43 GB (10.7GB per episode). 5 episodes of Heroes, encoded with VC-1 and DTS audio take up the same space (8.6GB per episode). The sound and video quality on the extras would probably not be as high, so they would take less space.

      • atcDave says:

        To put that in real world terms; S1 with the same number of episodes as S5 was on 3 Blu-Ray discs (including the first seven episodes (!) on disc one). I would guess the extra features were around three hours also. So three discs for S5 is also most likely, although two discs may actually be possible.

  6. Just to spoil everyone further…
    Deleted scenes part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQxVULS8qec
    Deleted scenes part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNNL6iw_efE

    I’m watching them now.

  7. For those of us who are “Shipping Soon”, here’s ‘Goodbye, Buy More’:

    For those of you who already have the discs, you can go about your business. Move along. For everyone else, you don’t want to sell me death sticks. You want to go home and rethink your life.

  8. More sad extras:

    At least my order has been shipped now. We’ll see how many days it takes to ship it 190 miles. “I told you that satellite was a good investment.”

    • This is the expanded version of the Zap2It video. Be sure to check out ZL and JG’s job at the 11:15 mark.

    • BigKev67 says:

      A great clip. You really get a sense of the emotions on the set in those final days. But Fedak’s comments *shakes head* “….wanted to find a way to maintain that sense of wt/wt” ….”what’s worse than one of them dying or them not saving the day?” Just emphasises the gap between what he sees and what I wanted to watch.

      • atcDave says:

        Yeah the more of this I see, the less I’m liking Fedak’s style again. He talks about wt/wt like its a good thing…

      • Ernie Davis says:

        I think we should remember that the WT/WT was a major part of this series. For two and a half seasons it was the story of two star-crossed lovers trying to find a way to be together against all odds, and it provided a lot of the comedy and drama we all loved. That Fedak would want to re-introduce that element in the series finale, where he is essentially re-visiting the entire series and all of it’s themes, not just wrapping up season 5, isn’t really surprising to me.

      • atcDave says:

        I’d still call it I’ll-advised. Many different story elements have been a big part of the show, and as the story unfolded they were left in the past. I mean we didn’t get a call back on “lying-slime-ball Chuck”, or “stay-in-the-car Chuck”. The writers had the sense to know that the characters (and audience!) where past those trends and they didn’t belong in a finale. I put wt/wt in exactly the same category, “Chuck vs the Ring” was the last time I accept it as legitimately entertaining. Any recurrence of it afterwards strikes me as tired, tedious and manipulative. In fact, I think by over using that particular meme it detracts from the earlier parts of the story when it played a legitimate role!
        Now don’t get me wrong, the last two episodes were good, and could have been great with only a little better conclusion; but I would call that in spite of the return of wt/wt, not because of it.

      • Ernie Davis says:

        Well I’ll just quote Mo Ryan:

        We’ve spent five years investing in the relationship of these crazy kids, and right here at the end, they were going to take that away from us? That was a hell of a risk to take in the show’s final hours.

        But you know what? I think that risk paid off, for a few reasons.

        Just as Sarah got to fall in love with Chuck all over again, we got to fall in love with their relationship once more, and revisit all its highs and lows in so many different ways. There were Sarah’s videos, Chuck’s recollections and at the end, a calvacade of glimpses into their most memorable moments (dual Weinerlicious uniforms!). The quest to get Sarah to recall everything that they’d been through allowed “Chuck” to stroll down memory lane, and this show took full advantage of it. It was risky to take that path, but when the show ended with those two kissing on the beach as The Head and the Heart’s “Rivers and Roads” played, it was incredibly romantic, and this is a show that does intense romance very, very well.

        So, sure, I can understand if you found it hard to see Chuck so heartbroken for parts of the finale, and if you found it hard to find Chuck and Sarah out of sync for so much of it, but there was a deeper reason that the finale worked for me. Throughout the two hours, we saw how Sarah literally couldn’t pull the trigger on Chuck. Something lingered in her, some emotions and undercurrents that she couldn’t account for. No memory wipe can take away how people change you, and Chuck had changed Sarah. And, of course, vice versa.

        And that was the lovely subtext of the finale: The people we love have an effect on our lives, an effect that nothing can ever take away, not even super-complex spy devices.

        So yes, I understand that it was a risk some consider ill-advised, but I thought it was a great way to re-visit who our characters were and who they became. At the end Chuck was there for Sarah however she needed him to be, selflessly giving himself to the woman he loved with no expectations, just hope. This was quite a change from the guy so dependent on Sarah, and so vulnerable to her distance or mood shifts. And there was Sarah, taking that leap of faith that she could trust a man who said he loved her to help her in a frighting transition into a life and world she’d always longed for, but never thought possible.

      • atcDave says:

        Well as I said, I thought it was good finale that could have been great with just a few changes. But perhaps my biggest beef, and this is true of very many series finales I’ve seen over the years, is that they gave us a finale that just wasn’t representative of the show I’d been watching the last two years. It was like a stray S3 episode tacked on to the end. Just way too dark and serious for my taste. Very few laughs in those last two hours, and not nearly enough of Chuck and Sarah as a team and a couple in love. I REALLY wasn’t watching the show to see mopey depressed Chuck, and I don’t care much for enforcer Sarah either. And yet that was the majority of the last two hours of the show.
        Now you know I buy entirely that things ended well for Chuck and Sarah. But geez, for me it’s like Bullet Train was the last episode of the show I loved, and I didn’t even care for the ending of that one! I end up really wishing they’d just ended the show at Baby, that was by far (REALLY by far!) the best ending of the season/series to me.

      • jam says:

        “But geez, for me it’s like Bullet Train was the last episode of the show I loved, and I didn’t even care for the ending of that one! ”

        It was the last episode that showed Sarah Walker-Bartowski, 95% of her character development was wiped away at the end of it, and never returned on camera. That’s the true tragedy of the show’s ending, and the reason it will never get better for me unless we get new canon someday.

        Then again, new canon would most likely mean Fedak involvement, and he’d undoubtedly find ways to screw things even further, so I’m not sure I want to see that either.

      • atcDave says:

        Yeah Jam that’s a big part of why the finale rubs me wrong. Again, it’s not that I don’t buy things ended well; it’s just that for me, like so many others for whom Sarah was their favorite character, we really didn’t get to see the character she’d grown into, that we loved so much, in those last two hours. A hint and probability that she was fine is a wholly inadequate send off for a much loved character.

      • ArmySFC says:

        @ernie you said this, “but I thought it was a great way to re-visit who our characters were and who they became.” to do that all you had to do was watch the DVD’s that were already released. it seems to me when you end a series you should focus more on moving ahead, not going backwards and doing a review of the entire series. in very basic terms, based on what i saw, and what you and others have commented on, that’s what they did. they said this is what we did before, it’s so great we need to remind folks of that fact.

        then again as you pointed out, fedak and co. had a habit of doing that the entire series. many fans loved all the call back to previous episodes, this was just another call back that didn’t work out real well for a lot of folks.

      • olddarth says:

        You don’t end a story with memory loss.

      • Ernie Davis says:

        They didn’t. They ended the story with Chuck and Sarah reliving their story together on the same beach where it started.

      • jam says:

        Yes, with Sarah still brain damaged…. Chuck telling her what happened doesn’t lessen the tragedy at all.

        I choose to believe she gets her memories back, but that still doesn’t make the ending any better.

      • atcDave says:

        Ernie the ending left too many questions for too many viewers. We shouldn’t have to do a detailed post mortem to figure out how the series ended, and yet that’s exactly what it took for many viewers to find any peace with that ending. And even when one comes to be convinced of the intent, it’s a lot harder to redeem the emotional impact.
        You know I can argue all day that Sarah is fine at the end of the episode; but the fact is, my first emotional response was “blah”. It just left me numb. I can understand what they did, but I will never have any “warm and fuzzies” about it. It did nothing for me.
        For most of five seasons I tuned in to laugh and have a good time with an assortment of characters I loved or loved to laugh at. The finale gave me two hours of well crafted drama, but very little of what I’d been tuning in for five seasons, and really none of my single favorite character. I might appreciate certain details of the finale, but I will never feel much affection for it. It actually angers me that they chose such a reckless story for the finale. I MIGHT have felt better about it all with a five or ten minute denouement showing all was well, but I really, really resent being told to figure it out for myself.

      • ArmySFC says:

        yes ernie they did leave it with memory loss. she may have gotten some of her memories back, but if they are not all back, and it was never shown she did get them all back, then she still had memory loss. so it did end with memory loss.

        i will be glad to change my mind if you or anyone can show me where they say or show all her memories coming back.

      • oldresorter says:

        Nearly one hundred per cent of the viewers would have embraced to one degree or another a happy ending, paying off the season long teases. Fedak intentionally decided to vindictively alienate a portion of the fans who loved the show by teasing certain things all season long, then delivering an self proclaimed, ambiguous ending. Fedak delivered a violent abuse of the female lead at the end of the 3rd last ep, then never fixing it for sure, ever, and if he did, he kind of sort of did in the last few minutes. Certainly somebody exists who would defend Fedak, even if he had written a script where Sarah was abused to even more extremes, like having Quinn do something ugly to her while she was passed out (who took her clothes off by the way?), that doesn’t make it right, i.e. the fact that someone likes ugly, joyless, mean spirited comedy doesn’t mean it was the best the show had to offer. Was what we got the worst possibly, no it wasn’t, (nor was season 3’s misery by the way) the ending, and to a certain extent, the way Sarah was battered starting with the Xmas present from hell on to the end, was not showing off the show’s best either. But bravo to those who love the show when it is ugly, for me, if a show is going to kick my butt as a fan, I need the abuse of the cast spread around to more than one character, and I need the show to at least pretend to be a drama, and not a comedy while doing so.

      • Ernie Davis says:

        Sorry Army, but I find that an absurd standard. They have to basically state explicitly that all her memories are back or the end of the show was about Sarah’s memory loss? Even TPTB have stated that they set up the magical kiss scenario to ensure that nobody had to believe Sarah was suffering memory loss at the end.

        The memory loss happened in episode 11. Episode 12 showed the consequences and the beginning of Sarah recovering her memories and her emotional connection to Chuck, and the finale was about Chuck and Sarah finding their way back to each other after a terrible tragedy. Yes, Sarah had lost memories and only regained some so far as we saw explicitly shown on screen, but to say they ended the show on memory loss is like saying both season 1 and 2 ended with an order to put Chuck in a bunker since the order was never rescinded on screen and season 4 ended with Sarah poisoned since they never explicitly said she was fully recovered.

        I fully understand that people didn’t like it and why, I just don’t think some of them get the opposing point, that more explicit epilogue or extra denouement would diminish the impact of those final minutes for a lot of us.

      • atcDave says:

        Jason I don’t think it’s fair to say “vindictive”. That assumes an agenda to upset us that I don’t believe was actually there. I would buy that he is somewhat clueless about how to please a broad audience, and he certainly seems unaware of how to write a “love letter to fans”, but none of that is due to dark motives. He obviously did choose to put a lot of dramatic focus on Sarah in the last part of the season, much of that looked like Sarah had become a bit of a punching bag. But again, I would guess a lot of that came down to the combination of knowing she was an audience favorite and it would heighten the dramatic impact by putting Sarah in so many tough situations. Not to mention Yvonne having the broadest acting range of the cast. You know I agree entirely it was taken too far at times, but again, I don’t think it’s fair to assume ill will on Fedak’s part.

        Ernie I would add that I found the magical kiss provision to be patronizing and stupid. As an attempt to appeal to all audiences it was really a miserable failure. Only those who immediately saw how advanced Sarah’s recovery already was by the beach scene were ever going to be completely satisfied with that ending. I like to think, if we’d had the extended cut from the beginning, even I would have picked up on Sarah rejecting Chuck’s version of their story initially and then embracing it in the end. But the shorter original cut left me very unfulfilled.

      • Shepperd of Lost Sheep says:

        The subtle sprinkles of hope they showed were never enough to overcome the bombsized hopelessness they kept dispensing.

        Most of the additional scenes seem to only add more hopelessness.

      • atcDave says:

        Although Shep I do believe the extra “hopelessness” at the restaurant scene really did make things better. Because it served to heighten the contrast between Sarah initially rejecting Chuck’s version of their story as “his” story; and then later, on the beach, being ready to hear “our” story. The parallels in the language really served to heighten the point for me, Sarah WAS recovering over the course of the episode, and she was ready to reclaim her life in the end.

      • ww1posterfan says:


        I’m not trying to be snarky or contrary….tone is sooo hard in email. I am trying to understand this aspect of your comment “that more explicit epilogue or extra denouement would diminish the impact of those final minutes for a lot of us.” I think this is where the great divide is because you saw/perceived things in the last 2 episodes that many did not, and, on review many of us have been able to discern as well, but didn’t necessarily grasp on first viewing. In my opinion, the storytelling was very nuanced, very layered, and dare I say “genius” in its own way, but the initial impact I had from the clips, was “WTF?” You mention impact……how would you describe your immediate feelings after the fade to black? What was your personal impact? I’m trying to reconcile the difference in your comments from “Happily Ever After” about the fitting ending with the completion of Chuck’s Hero Journey by redeeming the Interesect and Sarah’s redemption by having a child of her own. That’s a pretty explicit ending. It was a journey I was psyched to see. And, don’t get me wrong, I do see alot of beauty in the last 2 episodes…just the contrasting imagery of the final scene in Episode 1 with the final scene in Goodbye…..we’ve journeyed from shoulder bump to initmate kiss. As I’ve said before, most days I see the beauty, but there are some days that I see the ugly that OldResorter pointed out.

      • ArmySFC says:

        @ernie you said, “Sorry Army, but I find that an absurd standard.” it’s not a standard, it’s a fact plain and simple. that same argument (they didn’t show or say it) has been used here on this blog many times, both for and against me. look back and see just how many times it has been used.

        maybe it’s just absurd because i used it? in fact you say it yourself with this, “Yes, Sarah had lost memories and only regained some so far as we saw explicitly shown on screen, but to say they ended the show on memory loss is like saying both season 1 and 2 ended with an order to put Chuck in a bunker since the order was never rescinded on screen and season 4 ended with Sarah poisoned since they never explicitly said she was fully recovered.” you admit in that statement that she still had memory loss, so the season ended with her having memory loss. why still say it didn’t?

        for the first two you are correct, and maybe the option was still on the table and didn’t get removed or put on the back burner until he became a real spy in s-3? but that’s not what the talk is about is it? also for season 4, my final comment, “i will be glad to change my mind if you or anyone can show me where they say or show all her memories coming back.” by her being out of the hospital and getting married, they showed me she was mostly if not fully recovered.

      • Ernie Davis says:

        Army, I think we were talking past each other. OD’s clarification, that he wasn’t saying the episodes were about the memory loss, but that it’s use as the dramatic device to set up the conflict was what he saw as problematic is one I understand. My objection was that so many people make the memory loss, the dramatic device used to set up the conflict that will be resolved, into the conflict, making Sarah getting her memories back the objective of the episode. In that case, which I’d contend is a misreading of the plot and the story, it’s going to strike most people who share that view as something that needed to be resolved, the only thing that matters in the episode and the only conflict that must be resolved. That is the part I disagree with, and that’s the part where I find only an explicit statement would resolve it to be an absurd standard even if you accept that Sarah’s loss of memory is what the episode is about.

      • Ernie Davis says:

        ww1posterfan. My first reaction upon the “Chuck” logo and the final strains of “Rivers and Roads” was WOW. When I could take a breath again my next thought was that was just about the perfect way to end, by starting their love story all over again.

        I will say honestly that I awoke later that night with a disturbing thought, people are going to hate it because they’ll focus on Sarah’s memories as the thing that matters.

        As far as my Happily Ever After post, it was pure speculation, and one way to go. A happy montage of the happily ever after, similar to Push Mix’s last few minutes. But I’ll say this, in retrospect it’d feel like coasting to the end of the journey. We’d already seen that part of their once and future lives. The ending wasn’t what I expected, but what it did for me was remind me how this show could make you invest. It reminded me why we all love scenes with Chuck and Sarah being adorable together, because it once seemed so improbable that they ever could be together. It reminded me of how invested we were in that connection and that love story, and how we just knew it’d work out in the end. Which ever end that was. It stripped away all the window dressing and replayed their love story in a few simple beautiful minutes with the marvelous characters they’d all created showing both who they were and who they’d become because of each other simultaneously.

        In keeping me invested and keeping me on the edge of my seat till the last minute of the show, and then giving me that perfect moment of that magical kiss (which is magical outside any consideration of Sarah regaining memories) they told me once again, that however improbable, however hard the struggle, they’d beaten the odds. Both the show and the characters. Chuck and Sarah mattered and would always matter. Chuck mattered and would always matter. Nothing could take that away. Not even the end.

        That’s how I felt.

      • atcDave says:

        Actually Ernie I think you’ve missed the point on what some fans were most upset about. We have heard a few folks state they needed a full recovery from Sarah for them to be happy, but I think the more common fear is just that Sarah left the beach and rejoined the CIA. I’ve seen that in many comments, such stories are common in fan fiction, and I’ve even encountered a few casual viewers who were convinced, and unhappy about it, that Sarah leaving Chuck to go back to work was the most “likely” aftermath of the finale.
        Speaking for myself, I can accept some “damage” in the end, as long as Chuck and Sarah are happy together. And that is the very thing that took me 30 minutes after the finale first aired to satisfy myself of. Many viewers are still unconvinced (I encountered one at the NBC forums just two days ago), and THAT is the crux of why they are unhappy.

      • Ernie Davis says:

        I think the more common fear is just that Sarah left the beach and rejoined the CIA. I’ve seen that in many comments, such stories are common in fan fiction, and I’ve even encountered a few casual viewers who were convinced, and unhappy about it, that Sarah leaving Chuck to go back to work was the most “likely” aftermath of the finale.

        Well at some point they have to realize that’s their problem, not anything TPTB set up. Nothing in the finale points to that scenario, it’s pure fannon. Sarah explicitly stated her initial intention was to finish the mission, kill Quinn, then disappear forever, not go back to being a spy. After re-connecting with Chuck and her old life why would she suddenly feel compelled to do something she wasn’t even considering when she envisioned life without Chuck? You can’t blame TPTB for people who seem determined to find an unhappy ending being unhappy.

      • oldresorter says:

        Ernie – that is what you don’t get. Most people wanted to be happy at the end. They didn’t like what they saw. For goodness sakes, OD, Big Kev, and myself, probably the three most different fans you can find, didn’t like it. In fairness, neither did joe or think at first, I remember reading their first reactions, and they both bend over backwards to like everything on the show. That guy who runs his own blog didn’t like it at all, the teaser guy, can’t even recall his name. And and this is a big and, the passion with which the dislike was, had not been in play since Sarah fell in love with daniel shaw, who appeared to care about as much about her, as he did the length of his left toenail. And, the entire time, Fedak is laughing at everyone, enjoying himself and patting himself on the back for how clever he was. I think he knew exactly what he was doing, and he felt wonderful that his end generated so much hate.

        I get where you are coming from, you are the kind of fan who looks to figure out why a show does what they do, and if you can buy the premise, you can accept more than I can. I mostly just watch and react.

        First thing I did when the credits rolled, I looked at my clock, I thought there was one more scene left. Then I sat stunned, at how lousy the entire two hours felt, for what was an ambiguous end. You can’t say YOU knew the end for sure, when Fedak said it was ambiguous, now can you?

      • Ernie Davis says:

        No, Jason, I get that. I’ve said from the beginning I get that. I’ve also said from the beginning, as has Fedak, that there are inherent risks in going against that for something different that would resonate for one segment of the fanbase but perhaps not another.

      • ww1posterfan says:

        Thanks for the thoughtful response. I can see what you see and what you so beautifully expressed. I only have one comment I’d like to address- “I will say honestly that I awoke later that night with a disturbing thought, people are going to hate it because they’ll focus on Sarah’s memories as the thing that matters.” I know for me it wasn’t the memories per se’….it’s what they ostensibly represented, i.e. the well-being of the character and the health of the relationship. Having watched the finale a couple of times now, I continue to be blown away by Yvonne’s performance and the writer’s presentation of a “reset” Sarah with her intact implicit memories, i.e. Sarah Bartowski forcing herself to be Sarah Walker again. They in essence revisited the first 2.5 seasons in the first 83 minutes and crammed the last 2.5 seasons in the last 4 minutes, but instead of giving us Paris they gave us something much more understated and nuanced without the benefit of the extended cut whose additional minutes I believe were crucial for those of us not quite so perceptive or in tune with the grand scale of the showrunners’ intent. Thanks for helping me better understand what you experienced and what they intended.

      • atcDave says:

        Although I don’t agree with Jason saying Fedak wanted this result, I do agree with much of the rest of that. I think it has to be considered a story telling failure when so much of the audience missed the point. Ernie I even agree entirely that the episode doesn’t actually allow for such negative interpretations, but they were common! If a significant portion of your audience misunderstood then something was told wrong. My whole profession involves the balance between speaking and listening. If a pilot misunderstands and the controller doesn’t catch the pilot’s misunderstanding, a portion of the blame falls back on the controller for not being understood. I think the same standard is reasonable for a story-teller! Especially since it could have been clarified so easily, as I said on another thread; Sarah saying four words, as the screen fades to black, “take me home Chuck”, the problem is solved for the majority of viewers. Okay, I’m not a writer, maybe that device is clumsy, but it seems to me those viewers who were disappointed WANTED to be reassured, it should have been a very small fix to provide an extra measure of assurance.

      • Ernie Davis says:

        I continue to be blown away by Yvonne’s performance and the writer’s presentation of a “reset” Sarah with her intact implicit memories, i.e. Sarah Bartowski forcing herself to be Sarah Walker again. They in essence revisited the first 2.5 seasons in the first 83 minutes and crammed the last 2.5 seasons in the last 4 minutes, but instead of giving us Paris they gave us something much more understated …

        You told me to listen to our hearts, because our brains only screw us up. — Morgan Grimes, the Jimminy Cricket of Chuck.

        This is where I’ll disagree to an extent. I think from the very beginning of Chuck Versus Sarah they showed us Sarah’s instinct was to listen to her heart, and it was only Quinn in her ear that prevented her from doing that. That is a very different, very season 4-5 Sarah. To me that was the core of Yvonne’s tour de force. I agree with and applaud your observation that this is the evolved Sarah trying to fit into the original Sarah’s skin, and it isn’t working, but I think they showed us season 5 Sarah from the very start.

        This was never more apparent to me than in those final few minutes on the beach, where with a sigh, Sarah takes a leap of faith based not on any memories or experience, but based on what her heart tells her. To say they wiped away 5 seasons of growth, to me, just denies what is on the screen. The superficial, the cuddling and casual kisses and the #sexytimes and talk of dreams of their future together may be missing in these last few episodes, but to me the core of that relationship, the love and trust that can’t be undone shines through like never before.

      • ww1posterfan says:

        A couple of points. I agree with Ernie that all the breadcrumbs laid out led to C&S leaving the beach together and certainly not to Sarah going back to the CIA. You do have to see things that aren’t there to come to that conclusion. The problem is that they were breadcrumbs, not blinking neon directional lights pointing to the reconciliaton. The extra minutes were a step in the right direction, but still an unconventional way of doing it. I do believe the storytelling was too subtle and hence allowed for the misinterpretation and angst. How many people are going to make the distinction that a SW pre-Chuck would never have bothered to come to apologize, acknowledge she believed their love existed once, and give him closure vis-a-via a personal goodbye? SW in Nemesis (?) wasn’t going to do that, heck SW in Broken Heart had just worked her way up to a letter. How many people are going to key into the fact that SW pre-Chuck would never have been so clear, open, and articulate about why she didn’t want to see or hear their story? Hell, Chuck didn’t even clue in that at least he knew what she was thinking this time around rather than having to guess like he did for 2.5+ years. How many are going to notice at the Russian consulate that she defers to Chuck when they are confronted by Deutch’s henchman falling back easily into their team interaction. I could go on, but everyone gets the point. As for the ambiguity, my understanding from Fedak in the Sepinwall interview is the only ambiguity that exists is exactly how and when Sarah gets her memories back. In his mind, their was no ambiguity about their love conquering all and being together. It’s clear as day to him. And it’s that “how could you think otherwise/” attitude that galls some folks. The fact is that it wasn’t clear as day for his entire audience-some see that as a feature and others a bug.

      • atcDave says:

        Thank you WW1 for summing up the issue so well, not to mention finding the bottom of a truly monster thread!

      • joe says:


        They didn’t like what they saw. For goodness sakes, OD, Big Kev, and myself, probably the three most different fans you can find, didn’t like it. In fairness, neither did joe or think at first, I remember reading their first reactions, and they both bend over backwards to like everything on the show.

        I just got back from a marvelous dinner with my wife (getting out has been a rarity!) and I’m just catching up with this conversation. Please forgive me if I misrepresent anything.

        I want to point out that I was trying to be subtle, OR. If I recall my reactions correctly, I did enjoy the finale on the first viewing. But that was almost unimportant. Any enjoyment I got was because of some private satisfaction that I wouldn’t expect readily translates to others.

        But two things: I was worried at the time that there would be many whodidn’t like the ending. That may have come across. I’ve been very conscious of my friend’s reactions here.

        The other is harder. All I could do was explain best I could that my goal has always been a little different than just to be entertained. I’ll repeat the words that come closest to explaining – for me, this whole experience was about feeling something. That’s a gift that mere television (and all mass media) seldom gives. When I find it, I may not be happy, but I am grateful. The finale wanted to make me cry for Sarah and even more for Chuck. All the beach scene (and the extended version we saw the following week) could do was bring me back to ground 0, emotionally. But that was enough. For those powerful emotions, that was enough.

      • thinkling says:

        Wow. I am late to a very interesting party. Very balanced discussion.

        ww1posterfan: you said I continue to be blown away by Yvonne’s performance and the writer’s presentation of a “reset” Sarah with her intact implicit memories, i.e. Sarah Bartowski forcing herself to be Sarah Walker again.

        Well said. That’s a perfect way to put it. And Yvonne was truly fantastic.

    • olddarth says:

      Sorry – allow me to restate my point and clarify.

      In my opinion, you should never end a long running story with the last couple of chapters/episodes handing one of your main characters memory loss.

      • atcDave says:

        I not sure I would paint it in such absolute terms, but certainly ending with any question or ambiguity on the issue renders much of character development in the whole series that just passed questionable. I’d say it’s only marginally better than ending the series as a dream…

      • olddarth says:

        Dave if you can point to a story that carried this off successfully for a long term story where the reader is emotionally invested in the character affected I will loosen my opinion. Plus I would love to check it out to see how it was pulled off.

        If the intent was to create an open ending, memory loss or dreams etc is far from an optimal choice. Such devices work much better at the start, or near the start, of a story.

        I prefer open endings that have left me with the characters in a satisfying place where their next steps or choices are not told but do not need to be told either.

        The ending of the Shawshank movie is a prime example. The short story even more so – that source material ends with Red still on the bus.

      • atcDave says:

        No I really can’t think of a “good” amnesia ending to a story. In fact, I’d say it’s a story telling device I’m pretty tired of at any point in a show. It only occasionally works when it’s used put a main character in a position of observing their own life, and to comment on how their circumstance may be quite different from anything they expected or wanted. I really just hate when it’s used to turn family and friends against each other.

        I only hesitate to be absolute about it only because I can imagine it being acceptable IF it is satisfactorly resolved in the end. As I said in this particular case, since we first started learning where the story was heading; it never would have been my first choice for a finale on Chuck, BUT if Sarah’s recovery had been more clearly shown in the end I likely would have been okay with it.
        I really don’t expect every story/episode to be a home run, that isn’t my standard for enjoying a show at all. Obviously it’s never a great start when I’m thinking “oh brother, they’re doing the amnesia thing…”. But I can honestly say at one point, I was thinking “oh brother, they’re doing the baby thing…” and that became my favorite episode of the season. I hope that means I can cut them some slack and wait for the final product before passing judgement. And that’s kind of where I’m coming from in hesitating to make an absolute statement about using amnesia in a finale. It doesn’t sound like a good idea to me, and I don’t believe I’ve ever seen it done well, but I can imagine making it work. Or at least making it passably good, if not awesome.

      • Amnesia stories are problematic, no matter if they are in the middle or at the end of the story. Lois & Clark and Alias were far worse than Chuck, even though they were in the middle.

        Lois & Clark’s story was after an accidental marriage to a frog-eating clone. It would have been like the Norseman causing amnesia so the wedding was called off in Chuck vs. the Cliffhanger. Chuck and Sarah wouldn’t have been married until after Baby.

        Alias’ amnesia story was done as a tacked on cliffhanger of an otherwise great season 2. It would have been like Sarah telling Chuck she is staying with him during the dance at the reception, Chuck getting amnesia from the Intersect 2.0, and Chuck waking up to find Sarah married to Shaw.

        The season 3 Doctor Who Family of Blood two-parter had a painful ending, but Doctor Who regularly leaves pain and misery in his wake. The season 4 Donna Noble story was spun in a positive way in The End of Time, but it was still more depressing than Chuck and Sarah kissing on a beach because if Donna ever got her memory back, she would die.

        Most amnesia stories are resolved in the same episode, so there is minimal impact. The TV Trope for this is “Easy Amnesia” (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EasyAmnesia). Can anyone think of a good, multi-episode amnesia story?

      • ww1posterfan says:

        Would the Bourne Identity count? Not a TV show, but was a compelling story. As for LnC, that was a stalling tactic to let the comic book catch up to the wedding storyline. Everyone knew they were going to be be married eventually.

      • I forgot about Bourne stories. Those are great, but maybe stories where the entire premise is amnesia (Bourne Identity, Memento, John Doe–which I didn’t see) should get an asterisk. Or maybe multi-episode amnesia only works at the beginning of a story.

      • Rob says:

        I understand the differing positions on the finale. I don’t understand anyone who thinks that the ending was true to the episodes that preceeded it. Everytime the characters faced an overwhelmingly difficult event, the pay-off was overwhelmingly positive.

        — Shaw tries to kill Sarah — C&S get together FINALLY.
        — Chuck gets his brain fried — Sarah really starts to open up her feelings (great scene by Yvonne)
        — Sarah is fatally poisoned — C&S get married
        — Even when Stephen was killed, you believed it was for the greater good, because the family bonded and became closer.

        While I see the positives in the ending, it was an insufficient ending to the overwhelming heartbreak in the prior two episodes. I haven’t let it ruin my enjoyment of the series as a whole, but I don’t think that I’ll ever rank the final two episodes on my favorites list. Fedak knew how to craft a positive “ending.” He did it before, many times.

        As Dave mentioned above, I think that we saw another man’s version of a “love letter” because it wasn’t mine.

      • atcDave says:

        Yeah I think that’s an exception because the entire premise is based on the amnesia story line.

      • olddarth says:

        In the Bourne series the pursuit of his ‘Identity’ was the McGuffin or story engine. Once he found out who he was, it gained him nothing. The person he became during that search is what the story was all about.

        A perfect example of journey versus destination story arc. 😀

    • Haven’t we had this conversation before? I can’t remember. (*rim shot*) I know I don’t remember this scene in the finale. After seeing the reaction of many fans after Morgan danced with Sarah in Zoom, this would not have gone over well: http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m3qv6a9Opn1qg17aso1_250.gif

    • My fictitious satellite is worthless, and USPS tracking numbers are even worse. This morning, it was 190 miles away. Now it is 2062 miles away. I tried cancelling last night so I could pick-up an online Best Buy order in the store for the same price. It was too late to cancel. After this experience, I know I won’t be pre-ordering Chuck season 6 from Amazon. But I’ll admit that has nothing to do with Amazon.

      • atcDave says:

        You are a funny man!

        If memory serves, I offered the advice here a couple years ago not to pre-order anything unless it was likely to be uncommon or hard to get ahold of (or maybe if you live in Western Samoa…). I wish I’d repeated it this year, many seem to have been bit by their enthusiasm to pre-order. I believe you can return Amazon purchases. A pre-order coming three days late sounds like fair grounds for doing so to me!

      • I pre-ordered before I knew about the extended footage. Everything is DVR’ed (except Santa Suit, by accident), so I didn’t think it would be a big deal. I wasn’t worried about it until I started seeing all of these taunting reviews and youtube videos.

        Amazon returns are fairly painless, but this is becoming a patience/self-improvement exercise for me. So far, I’m not doing too well.

      • Rob says:

        Jeff — Hold out hope. I got mine today, and didn’t even know that it shipped until last night. Unfortunately, I’m on the road, and won’t be able to watch until tomorrow night.

      • Good news. I’ve figured out that I’m getting two copies of the BluRay set, because that’s the only way it could be in Indiana at 2:53am (according to Amazon) and in Washington state at 4:37am (according to the USPS). There has to be two copies. Or I’m a crazy person for thinking the US government is accurate about anything. Or they are using the special plane that Chuck used to go to and from Russia in Chuck vs the Cliffhanger. Chuck and Sarah aren’t using it or their corporate plane anymore. They are still making out on the beach. So maybe the plane is an early part of the Postal Service’s proposed $34 billion bail-out package. $42 million of that package is for the magic plane.

        As entertaining as all of you might (not) find my shipping woes, I am starting to regret posting all of the extras links I found on youtube. They provided an excuse to make more personal attacks on Chuck’s PTB.

      • ArmySFC says:

        Nah jeff it’s just the time difference! 0253 is 0053 in wash st. so add a three hr flight and its 0353 or so when it lands in wash st. provided they are using local time and not zulu.

      • Good point, Army. Most of Indiana is EDT, so there is actually a 3 hours difference. If the times are local, that’s 2:53am EDT in Indiana and 7:37am EDT in Washington. Non-stop flight time would be 4 1/2 hours, so ignoring the time to and from the airport, it could work without a magic plane. The problem is I live closer to Indiana than Washington. It left a post office 6 miles away, 1 hour 45 minutes ago. I guess it is coming tomorrow… or the next day.

      • ArmySFC says:

        jeff just hope its not like the post card that took 60 years to arrive!

      • Ernie Davis says:

        Confession time. I did an Amazon pre-order with overnight shipping. I also ordered some shoes at the same time. I got an odd message the other day that my shipping was being refunded because the shoes, the ones I was wearing, hadn’t shipped on time. It was of course the Chuck DVD part of the order, which I finally figured out.

        So I checked out Best Buy, found out the price was the same and stopped at Best Buy to get Chuck, figuring I would cancel the Amazon order as soon as I got home. Of course by the time I got home it had shipped, but I’d also stumbled onto Best Buy’s Chuck DVD sale, $16.99 for each season. So that is the story of how I ended up with two copies of every Chuck DVD released. I’m not unhappy about that either, and am looking forward to buying the Blu Ray too, if that makes sense.

  9. oldresorter says:

    Anyone notice how season 5 flipped the structure of season 3? 11 or 12 tough episodes, followed by other guy and honeymooners, which gave fans EVERYTHING they wanted to see. Season 5 was the opposite, with 11 episodes of payoff (except for some odd reason, they beat the hell out of Sarah for XMAS), then ended with 2 pretty tough episodes. I wonder if the ‘love letter’ comment didn’t refer to the first eleven eps? It makes some sense, because the show never could have explored buying a house, having babies, starting a normal company in just a few minutes of the final, so they gave us a whole season of what it might have been like.

    Who knows, the plan on the table, might have been amnesia all season, like some fans wanted to see? Now, that would have been extra mean spirited.

    • atcDave says:

      Well again, I don’t believe it was mean spirited, but it may have been I’ll-conceived. I believe they had a clever plan, and executed most of it quite well. As you said, they sort of delivered the Bartowski’s future in bits and pieces throughout the season. We saw them settle on a new business plan, warm to the idea of kids, all while their love and maturity as a couple blossomed. They front loaded the ending. And then threw it into jeopardy for an exciting finale and end scene that mirrored the Pilot. They physically started where they begin, but their future looks different now; like happier and less exciting!

      But I think the problem is they were too clever, and far too subtle for most of us to get on first glance. I was REALLY angry for about 30 minutes until I felt I had the pieces put together. We saw a badly fractured fan base, again, by this ending. I think those who immediately “got it”, and those who weren’t convinced will likely be at odds forever now. And honestly, as one who was maybe somewhere in the middle, I’ve been plenty grumpy about that at times too.
      As I’ve said many times, I don’t believe an amnesia story ever would have been my prefered exit strategy; but really some pretty small changes to the ending might have prevented a lot of the anger and confusion. And I think the extended cut will help some viewers, maybe quite a lot. I like to think I would have been one of the very happy viewers like Ernie if we’d seen that longer cut three months ago.

      • garnet says:

        You can put me in the “struggling” camp. Some days are good and others bad. I admit that I didn’t see the glass as half full for quite some time. I do believe that they were trying to show us a couple coming back together, but at first glance I dind’t see enough confirmation that they were a couple again. Coupled with Chuck’s REALLY strange “I was in love then” line ,with the need for Morgan to remind him that he was still in love. I felt a huge let down at the end.
        I will freely admit that I didn’t sleep properly for 3 nights and I was likely to find the room unexpectely “dusty” at odd times for a couple of weeks or so. As a guy, I have never before felt like this when a show has gone off the air, and I suspect I never will again (as I am now outside the prefered age range :)). I didn’t need the white pickett fence and the baby in Sarah’s arms, but I did want just a little more evidence that Sarah was going to both be OK and be with Chuck (maybe that would be the same thing). That said, I think that the extended scenes may just tip me over permanently to the happy side

  10. olddarth says:

    Well Frea just completed her Chuck Magnum Opus and surprise, surprise – it’s open ended too.

    But no surprise, she did it right.

    Her story is now my Chuck canon.

    And I loved the ending.

    • jam says:

      That was definitely a far better way to do an open ending.

    • uplink2 says:

      On that I agree with that as well. THAT was a great open ending. I may not have agreed with a few of Frea’s story choices, Lincoln in particular as I’ve never been a fan of Manchurian candidate type secret weapon stories, I do think she wrote a perfect ending. There is plenty of ambiguity as to their future but there is none in terms of their relationship. That is what I think Chuck and Sarah deserved in Fates and what they deserved in canon.

      We don’t need to know how it all plays out but in canon there is a serious door left open that they go their separate ways. Not that I believe they do but the distinct possibility is there. In Fates all of the ambiguity of what happens to them is there but none of the angst of them not dealing with it all together. That is what I hoped for to be able to say goodbye. Frea gave me that chance and even with the added content I am never going to get it from Fedak.

  11. joe says:

    Thought I might put this little bit of news here.

    Bailey Browning (aka @LittleChuckFan) succeeded in raising over $20k for @StJude. For the three people in the world who don’t know, Bailey has been a standout Chuck fan for years and has raised thousands in that time for several charities.

    Thanks to a donation by Yvonne she also organized a little contest late in this effort – there will be a drawing from the names of those who donated. The winner gets the “Frac Off” tee-shirt she wore in Nacho Sampler, signed by the star, of course.


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