Fan Fiction News

Sound of Music II is Complete

Sort of a big day today on the fan fiction front; Quistie64’s epic “Chuck vs the Sound of Music II” was finished.  At over 500000 words I believe it is the longest single piece of Chuck fan fiction  ever written (certainly the longest at ff.net!).  But it is truly a masterpiece.  Especially if we add in the original “Chuck vs the Sound of Music” this is just an incredible story.  The mood of SoMII is a little different than the first one; the twisted song every chapter is abandoned, the featured couple is together and happy from beginning to end, and the spy mission takes on a bigger role, especially in the later chapters.  But the whole cast, including seven OC children are all back.  If you like the idea of a family themed spy adventure that spans over a half dozen international locations this may be the story for you.  The length is more manageable than you may think, not only is it extremely well written, but the early part of the story (first 2/3s or so?) can easily be read at a one chapter at a time sort of pace.  Later chapters become real page turners, so it really is the best of all worlds sort of thing.

This story gets my highest recommendation and is really among the very best.

The last few days have been active for new chapters of on-going stories too, with a lot of output just today.  We’ve seen recent updates from ygbsm’s “A Good Man Goes to War“; KateMcK’s “It’s a Wonderful Cover Life“; Marc Vun Kannon’s “nine2five 2,1 Snake in the Grass“; ThereIsAnother’s “Chuck vs The Biggest Loser“; Jimmy144’s “Chuck vs the Normal” and NinjaVanish’ “Chuck vs the U-Boat“.

Just wow!  So much good stuff to read…

~ Dave

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About atcDave

I'm 53 years old and live in Ypsilanti, Michigan. I'm happily married to Jodie. I've been an air traffic controller for 30 years; grew up in the Chicago area, and am still a fanatic for pizza and the Chicago Bears. My main interest is military history, and my related hobbies include scale model building and strategy games.
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67 Responses to Fan Fiction News

  1. Theresa says:

    I have to agree. I read each chapter when it was posted. It was a great wild ride with the imaginative uses of many favorite buildings and locations in these Large European cities.The idea of a Gamer family was inventive. I loved the Adventure and Romance. It is a very great read!

    • atcDave says:

      I’m really glad you liked it Theresa. I know I’m going to miss those faithful Thursday updates. Its was almost like Chuck continuing on for the last year and half.

      I just hope Quistie feels the need to tell another story in this universe!

    • quiste64 says:

      Thank you, Theresa. Knowing you enjoyed the story so much makes me happy. Thank you for going on this family’s adventure with me. Cheers!

  2. garnet says:

    Yeah it has been quite a trip. I have to admire the persistance required to finish a work like this. I had once jokingly referred to Quiste as “the Stephen King” of FF, and I hope she is ok with that moniker. My hope is that she will find time for additional Chuck stories, as I have been wondering what the ninja librarian has been up to!

    • atcDave says:

      Yeah I sure hope SOMII didn’t break her for good. What a massive and awesome accomplishment it is!

    • quiste64 says:

      Hey garnet,

      I think being referred to as the Stephen King of FF is a badge of honor! Of course, we write polar opposite kinds of stories and he makes tons of money at writing and I don’t make any… but yeah, in volume of words… 😉

      Poor ninja librarian. She got put on the back burner once “Sound of Music” came on the scene. We’ll have to wait and see if she’ll be back.

      And thank you for your support of the story. It’s been great having you along with me chapter after chapter.

  3. quiste64 says:

    Dave,

    Wow, seeing this post this morning was unexpected and frankly, thrilling. Thank you so much for giving “Chuck vs. the Sound of Music II” this awesome recommendation. I’m honored and humbled by it. You have always championed this story and I thank you for that. I’m sure there are many readers who gave the story a try after reading your glowing recommendations (especially those who were initially wary of the premise). For that, I’m truly grateful.

    I do hope to return to this universe someday. With this family, there’s always a new adventure just around the corner.

    Again, thank you, Dave. It’s readers like you that kept me going.

    • atcDave says:

      Keeping you going was always my intent! I know apart from self satisfaction, our feedback is the only reward you get. So I always wanted you to know your efforts are truly appreciated.
      And I never had any doubt a large number of Chuck fans would enjoy your story as much as I do.
      In many ways your version of the story and characters is even more appealing to me than canon. And I don’t mean to be trashing on the show at all, just that it occasionally strayed into areas I don’t care for as much, while you always played to my favorite, and I think strongest parts of the characters. I liked having a slightly more mature version of our favorite characters, I liked the way both canon and original characters related to them, and I particularly liked what the kids brought to the story.
      Its funny, because I already knew I liked your take on the Chuckiverse from your Ninja Librarian stories; but SOM was sort of a perfect, inspired storm. I know your “origin” story for it, and it really is amusing how a throw away comment can turn into something so epic.
      Thank you so much for all your very hard work. I am beyond pleased if I was able to support you in some small way.

      • I’d like to add my thanks to quistie’s, Dave. It’s so great to know that not only are people reading the story, but that they enjoy it enough to take the time to comment on it and even blog about it.

      • atcDave says:

        Neil I’m assuming you’re AgentInWaiting (sorry, I don’t know everyone’s cover names as well as I ought!), so thank you too for all your efforts. You guys make an awesome team.

  4. James says:

    Not sure how you missed dettiot’s two stories “Saving Moscow” and “Two sides of the Same Coin”. They are both excellent stories.

  5. Theresa says:

    I want to give a great shout out to Adderlygirl’s very Casey Centric Story called ‘Ghosts that Haunt’ It is a sequel to “Forging a Life.” I find both these stories a wonderful read. There is aspects of Casey’s personality that appears in these stories which is quite heartwarming. Chuck is there too along with Sarah but the focus is on Casey and a Canadian Operative Mariah Adderley. The Daughter of the Canadian Clandestine Services’ Director.V. H. Adderley. I can not praise this story enough. I hope you all check it out.

  6. anthropocene says:

    Late to the party as usual…but S6 is back.

  7. Theresa says:

    I want to recommend Another great a bit AU fic. Chuck vs.The Biggest Loser by ThereIsAnother.
    It is a interesting twist where Chuck filled with dejection ballooned to over 400 pounds. Sarah comes after Bryce sends him the code for the intersect. She becomes his personal trainer along with Casey. It stays pretty close to Canon on all the adventure parts with a twist. I love how Sarah is allowed to express her feelings toward Chuck openly. There was none of this Agent Asset BS, I think it make this story a more intimate one.Check it out!

    • atcDave says:

      Yeah that is one I’ve recommended here several times. I’m not so quick to call the show’s fundamental conflict of interest BS! But I do agree its a lot of fun to have a story that provides a sort of end run around Sarah’s defenses and gives a very different view of her from the start.

  8. Theresa says:

    Actually this Agent Asset conflict was only in the heads of the writers. In reality it rarely happens. Look at Covert Affairs for comparison. I realize it is just another TV show but it is closer to what actually happens in the field.

    • atcDave says:

      Not sure how “realistic” one show is vs another.

      But certainly they could have explained things better in Chuck. The issue is, they need Chuck the asset to do things outside of his comfort zone, things that may be very dangerous, and things that clearly aren’t in his best interest to actually do. They need Sarah the Government Agent to push, cajole and manipulate Chuck into doing those things. And ultimately, when they are done with Chuck and dispose of him, they need Sarah to walk away and do her next assignment. Now we the audience may know Sarah is never the good little monster Graham may want her to be. But Sarah, for her part, needs to play both sides. She needs to keep her bosses happy so she can stay on the job, and avoid reassignment, and that means never letting on how completely affected she is by Chuck. She presumably has enough confidence in her professionalism to know she’s very good at her job, and she is emotionally invested in protecting Chuck both from the baddies and from her own employer (I REALLY wish they’d left in that deleted scene from First Date where she talks to Casey about how this mission will end). And that is the very definition of being “compromised”. She has two conflicting agendas.
      Once we get to Broken Heart it all comes to head. Although the episode is actually sort of clumsy, they only really showed Chuck being smitten with Sarah, which should work fine in the Government’s best interest. But if we accept that Forest saw evidence of Walker serving Chuck’s interest more than the Agency’s, that reassignment is appropriate. Now what SHOULD have been a really epic moment in that episode is Beckman accepting the emotional tie; because at that point, Beckman has accepted Sarah is now primarily a body guard. Granted a really, really good body guard with a very deep skill set. But Beckman should be under no illusions about Sarah being a good Government agent at that point.
      Of course they’ll play this game a little longer on the show; and I’m mostly fine with that as an entertainment product. But it sure does make Beckman look staggeringly, stupendously stupid when we get to First Kill and she thinks she can order Sarah to betray Chuck. But it sure did make for an awesome moment!

      A story like “Biggest Loser” can avoid the whole conflict a few ways. We could just assume that right from the start Sarah is there as Chuck’s advocate more than as a government agent (almost a “Public Defender” sort of thing). We could assume a less nefarious government that doesn’t ever intend to treat assets as such disposable commodities as we saw on the show. Or we could even assume an emotional connection that overwhelms the rules in place (this happens quite often. Even the FAA has non-fraternization rules, and they are routinely broken).
      Whatever the case, we have a slightly different angle than what we saw on the show. I think both can make for an excellent story.

  9. Theresa says:

    Hmmm that is the problem…Assets are not burned as often as depicted in Chuck. Most are bunkerized as Manoosh. Killing them rarely happens. In Chuck it seems they wanted to show an unfeeling gov’t. Which is not really the truth. the Gov’t is made up of people. Those people can not call on another to be unfeeling robots.It never works. Assets are very hard to come by so they are cultivated.

    • atcDave says:

      Well I don’t believe either you or I are really qualified to comment on what’s “most common”. But I do agree killing of assets is probably extremely uncommon in the real world (imagine the scandal if the press could ever prove civilian assets had been liquidated!)
      Which is sort of beside the point. We are told from the start of the show Chuck is unique and extremely high priority. By definition, nothing common or typical at all.

      • Theresa says:

        Actually I am qualified to render such an opinion. I was placed in Eastern Europe just as the End of Communism. My job was to interdict Human Slavery Rings operating in that area. So I had to cultivate assets to do my job.

      • atcDave says:

        Okay, fair enough.

    • atcDave says:

      Actually though the biggest issue is NOT the kill order. It would seem Sarah was out of that particular loop anyway.

      The biggest issue is coercing an asset to do things that are in the government’s best interest, but NOT the asset’s. The government will logically fear that a compromised agent will put a higher priority on protecting the asset vs getting the job done.

      Realistically this is a reason for rotating agents through assignments, so they don’t get too personally involved.
      And historically this sort of thing is very difficult for a government or military to control. MANY agents/soldiers/spies have switched sides for love, friendship or loyalty conflicts. It IS something they would pay attention to.
      As I mentioned in the Broken Heart scenario, I think its also reasonable that the government might not worry about for the primary handler of an asset like Chuck. He’s cooperative and helpful, and needs protecting more than manipulating; they might easily decide to let him keep a handler he is very attached to. But my point is, they might not. Its a legitimately complicated situation.

  10. Theresa says:

    A good example would be Chuck’s own family. Stephen asset was cultivated by the gov’t and Mary fell in love with him. They did not have Mary shoot him in the head once he was done.

    • atcDave says:

      Because he disappeared… We don’t know if Mary might have been ordered to kill Stephen in certain circumstances. Emphasis on the “we don’t know” part. Way too many unknowns to really speculate.
      But we do know Casey had a standing kill order on Chuck (when the mission was complete). If we credit the deleted scene from First Kill we can conclude Sarah knew this mission COULD end that way. She was actually quite worried about and subtly threatened Casey on the issue.
      So Sarah was compromised from quite early on.

  11. anthropocene says:

    I just read the transcript of an interview with Valerie Plame, about her new book, and it seemed very relevant to the discussion thread on assets and relationships that’s developed here. A few choice quotes: “I think it’s fair to say that the CIA is the world’s biggest dating agency…I certainly had relationships with men in the CIA”… “it’s really hard to gather intelligence when you are shooting at someone…Thank goodness I never had any assets die on me.”

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/books/2013/09/30/valerie-plame-blowback-interview/2879487/

    There are a number of different book-tour interviews online. Plame is an intriguing person and I always wondered if the Sarah Walker character was at all modeled on her.

    • Theresa says:

      That kind of proves my point. It is counter productive to use the threat of termination. Thus having Casey ready to do it was a bit over the top. It would be more like what Fulcrum would do not the CIA/NSA.

      • atcDave says:

        While I completely agree it would be ineffective, immoral, illegal, unethical, etc, etc to kill unneeded assets; it clearly is a part of the Chuckiverse. At least in Chuck’s case. I’ll guess permanent “protective custody” is not done often either, and yet we know it was done with Laszlo and threatened for Chuck.
        The show canon version of the US government is quite dark and incompetent. As a career government employee I’m quicker to believe the incompetent part.

  12. Theresa says:

    I agree the US gov’t is filled with incompetence. The Peter principle is alive and well in the Halls of Government.

  13. atcDave says:

    Just today Fan Fiction writer Kate McK, a long time favorite of mine, posted a funny one-shot inspired by a twitter pic from our own Faith.
    It’s called “Picture Perfect” and its a speculative bit about the photo session we all know occurred sometime during “Seduction (2.02)”. We always knew Casey was the photographer, and it occurred some time during the trip to find Roan. In fact, once the photo emerged from that session that showed Chuck and Sarah standing on a pool diving board we could guess it was taken at Roan’s house.
    Whatever the details, Kate has a lot of fun with it. Good, quick read (less than 10 minutes) and very humorous.

  14. Disappointed by some 'fans' says:

    All phenomenal recommendations especially SOMII – quistie never disappoints and posted on a pretty predictable schedule for OVER A YEAR!!

    I feel a little bad about overshadowing her contributions but this was the most recent fanfiction post and I have some observations on recent disturbing happenings in Chuck fanfiction…

    You see, I’ve long found it humorous that certain reviewers are as dependable as the sun rising in the east when something is published that violates their perception of canon / characters or story preferences. (Three that I look for by name are particularly vicious.) But this holiday weekend a post-series story was published by a writer named qjay which included the concept of Sarah and Chuck not quite working out and her on a last gasp attempt to recover her memories.

    Sounds pretty bad, huh? I thought so at first and then looked closer and thought it was possible that the author was setting some things up like Sarah just felt too much pressure at being her old self, was actually desperate to get that back and Chuck was running a secret op to get her back. Clearly it was on course for eventual Charah. It had some issues but was well written. Maybe it would evolve into a good story. We’ll never know…

    I checked qjay’s profile and he/she had published a few other stories and had a bio that excitedly said ‘working on a sixth and seventh series for my favorite show!’. Unfortunately, a few PREDICTABLE reviewers absolutely lambasted the story the way they always do. They were joined by several ‘guest’ reviewers (whose ‘guest’? Certainly not qjay’s!) in really laying it on thick. The story was removed soon thereafter. I had the author’s profile in my history and planned on sending a message of support along with what I did and didn’t like about the two chapters that had once existed but, over the holiday, it took me a day to get around to it.

    Know what the profile says now? ‘Joined 1998. Account Inactive’

    Even the other stories were removed.

    Think about that for a second. From ‘favorite show’ to ‘account inactive’ in a couple of days because this person had the bravery to initially share their creative efforts and the temerity – the unmitigated gall – to publish a story that had elements that a few VERY vocal detractors are CONSTANTLY on the hunt for in order to bully writers off of ‘their site’ and out of ‘their fandom’. This isn’t even close to the first time I’ve witnessed this, just the most recent.

    1998!!! They didn’t just leave Chuck they left fanfiction entirely!

    Does that sound like the Chuck fandom you were once proud to be part of? That we once said had such a better sense of community than many others?

    So you want a Chuck movie one day? How?…when we let a few people alienate fellow fans and, worse, new fans. I doubt they’ll make a movie for the ten fans who stand victorious in driving everyone’s creative efforts to match their preferences by bullying everyone who does not.

    You recall when the Chuck fandom was actually unified in their desire to renew the show many times over? Yet we all let a few people speak for us to the point that they bully someone into retracting their creative efforts and likely bad mouthing ‘those militant Chuck fans’ when it was once their favorite show.

    There are plenty of Chuck stories I take a pass on. I don’t feel the need to say ‘this sucks, I won’t be reading’. I especially don’t feel a need to say ‘you’re an idiot, CLEARLY this would happen or that wouldn’t happen, get out of the way and let the GOOD writers publish here’ (that last was a good one – who’s stopping the ‘good’ writers, exactly?).

    One of my ‘old faithful’s has a bio that is pages and pages long about what the real CIA does…since when was Chuck based on the real CIA? Or real anything, really. If anything it’s loosely based on all the absurdities of spy fiction that this reviewer slams writers for ALSO using (‘kill orders’ have come up in these comments but many other objectionable elements appear in Chuck either explicitly or by allusion). I’m honestly not sure what show named Chuck he is actually a fan of but he can’t help but try to shame every writer that doesn’t adhere to his same vision.

    I know there’s a certain leaning among regulars here – more whimsy than angst but the show had both – something for everyone as they say (apparently NOT!) – so where do you stand?

    Are you secretly pleased that the vocal entitled few who have assumed the role of gatekeeper are driving away the riff-raff? Or are you irritated that – though you don’t exactly subscribe to certain creative visions – that they are being cyber bullied into leaving the fandom? Or are you indifferent?

    All I ask is that when you see irrational bullying in reviews you call it out for what it is. At least say ‘no bullies in Chuck fanfiction’ – anonymously if you wish, logged in if willing to engage in more nonsense. Maybe send a review or PM to the author to let them know that while you may not even LIKE their story you appreciate their creative efforts and willingness to share them. If so inclined, it is possible to be supportive and positive while being critical.

    If you want any variety to survive in fanfiction – and Chuck to remain alive in the hearts of all its fans – join me in doing at least that!

    I’m genuinely curious at the reaction this will receive and whether I too will consider moving to ‘account inactive’ with regard to the Chuck fandom…

    • atcDave says:

      I did notice the story appeared, then disappeared in a few hours. I had glanced at the content and decided it wasn’t for me, at least not for now. I have noticed this happen a few times recently, including works by some obviously very young writers, and non-native English speakers. But I truly don’t understand the drive some readers seem to have towards raining on other’s parades. Seriously, if a story is not for you, leave it alone! It doesn’t hurt you in any way if some writers and their readers are enjoying a tale that isn’t to your liking! And if you see a premise you like, but a few things that need work; post the praise publicly, and send the critique, in an encouraging and helpful way, via PM.
      I think this is a reasonable methodology. It will serve to encourage writers, especially new writers, and it should help the fandom as a whole.

      At this point, almost two full years since the end of the show, the rate of new stories and writers coming up is pretty slow. This is hardly surprising. This is also why I don’t do fan fiction posts as often as I once did.
      But seriously people, let’s encourage each other and those new writers that are trying to get a start. It would be awesome for this fandom to have a GOOD reputation as a place for new writers to get their feet wet. It would be of benefit to ALL of us.

    • joe says:

      I’m with Dave here. At this point, I just don’t see what the purpose would be to disparage and discourage any writer from trying his or her hand at writing legitimate FF. All that does is sort of poison the well that is The Internet. Constructive criticism (especially to an amateur writers) is much harder, I guess.

      If I ever got the bug to write an FF, I know “bullying” would give me pause.

    • I was lucky enough to find this story the morning it was posted and did a quick read of both chapters, promising I would come back and give it the attention I thought it deserved. It was an interesting, well written take on what happens after the beach, and I was looking forward to a more in depth read and review. I was confused when I couldn’t find it and am now surprised – if not shocked – by what you are sharing.

      I have enjoyed seeing the growing number of people watching Chuck for the first time on Netflix and commenting with really positive feedback on my Tumblr feed. These new viewers have the luxury of watching all five seasons in a row and I’ve seen no sign of anger at some of the events that have caused these pages to blow up. I’ve hoped they would be welcomed into the community, giving it the new life it needs to sustain itself.

      Have you noticed the number of new, first time Chuck fanfic authors that have popped up on the site since Netflix? I did a quick count and found six – reagancrew, Seraphim25, OnkelJo, niallmcc, DarkLordHufflepuff & qjay -that have published within the last couple of weeks. I think that’s great and certainly the largest amount in a long time. Building that base is critical to keep the fandom alive – if we still want a movie, if we want more new fanfiction.

      Lev Grossman wrote in TIME, that:
      “Fan fiction is what literature might look like if it were reinvented from scratch after a nuclear apocalypse by a band of brilliant pop-culture junkies trapped in a sealed bunker. They don’t do it for money. That’s not what it’s about. The writers write it and put it up online just for the satisfaction. They’re fans, but they’re not silent, couch-bound consumers of media. The culture talks to them, and they talk back to the culture in its own language.”

      It’s very disappointing that the vocal members of our fandom take on such aggressive, rhetorical positions about the show that they want. We’ve seen it on these pages and to a certain extent, I expect and accept that passion. But to hear that it has made it’s way into this creative, interpretive art form is discouraging. I want more and different interpretation. I want more imagination. That’s why I read FF.

      My mother taught me that if you don’t have anything good to say to someone, don’t say anything at all. If you want the fandom to go on living, we need to encourage and welcome new blood.

      • revdr says:

        You are so right Peter! We do indeed need to encourage both new viewers to the show and writers who have a connection to it. While I don’t know if that would ultimately enhance the possibility of a movie, just to have others who enjoy Chuck chime in with their insight and commentary ( positive or negative) works for me. I am constantly amazed at the number of new fan fics for West Wing, Gilmore Girls, Fringe and other shows that I loved. Two of the shows have been off the air for years, so its encouraging to see the staying power of these programs.

      • atcDave says:

        For several years I judged at High School Speech and Drama Tournaments, and one of the very first rules they taught us was always find something good to say. Of course you also wanted to give concrete things for the speakers to work on too; that, and the whole point was to rank order performances, so you pretty much HAD to include the good and bad to offer a meaningful evaluation.
        I do understand some reviewers will have helpful or instructional criticism to give. But fan fiction writers are pure hobbyists. If it stops being fun, they will likely stop writing. It is seriously in our best interests to encourage wherever we can.

        Another bit of real life experience on this. When I first started my career an instructor taught me, when you loose your cool with a pilot, you look like the the jerk. Doesn’t matter what the pilot did or if he deserves it. You will look like the jerk.
        I think there’s some universal truth in that too. If you leave a scathing review, you will look like a jerk. It doesn’t even matter if the story was garbage. If you call it garbage, you look like a jerk.

      • revdr says:

        As a minister of course the rule for me is not to judge…one way or the other. As a human being however, I do have an opinion. It doesn’t necessarily mean that I will like what someone says or does but I don’t have to agree (or disagree) with what the end result turns out to be. If I like a fan fic I can favorite it or write a favorable review as a means of encouragement. If I don’t like it or the premise I simply don’t have to read it. You don’t have to like everything you read because for the person writing it they are doing it primarily for their own personal gratification. If it pleases someone along the way far be it from me to discourage that. Creativity breeds criticism, and that’s a whole other subject.

      • dkd says:

        Peter–

        What you said about the new Chuck fans from Netflix is something I’ve noticed, too. Almost all of them seem to have enjoyed the show in a very positive way.

        I’ll be honest. I don’t read fan fiction. But, I feel really bad for the person who wrote the piece because the reaction they got is an example of a part of “fandom” that I dislike immensely–people who think there’s only one way to react to something and only one way the story should have been told.

      • atcDave says:

        It is funny DKD, the whole idea of fan fiction is that there are OTHER ways of telling the story. And yet some readers act as though there own taste is sacred. Obviously its one thing to know what you like and want, its another entirely to insist its the “only” way.

        revdr I do think its partly one of those limitations of the English language. Because there is clearly a difference between judging in the discernment and evaluating sense of the word; and another entirely to pass judgement. One is an act of wisdom, the other an act of pride.
        Of course there’s also two distinctly different ways we can legitimately judge fan fiction. One being purely technical qualities; everything from story structure to spelling, grammar and punctuation (it amuses me the number of basically excellent writers who are tripped up by homonyms!). Generally, I try to ignore this aspect. I’ve seen a few stories with so many technical shortcomings that becomes difficult. But I figure unless I’m willing to offer my services as a beta (and I’m not) I will try to keep my mouth shut about such things.
        The other is a matter of our own taste and likes. This is where I think many of us get into some trouble. But ultimately, as you said, we don’t have to read anything we don’t like. Although I have been pleasantly surprised by the number of stories I initially thought were not to my liking that I eventually came back to (usually because of the recommendation of another fan) and liked a lot. Even so, I often see discussions take flight on these fan fiction posts about stories I have no interest in, or even actively dislike for some reason. I am pleased there is so much good material out there for a wide variety of tastes. But sometimes its really tough for me to bite my tongue (or keyboard?) and stay out of the discussion!

      • revdr says:

        Got cha’ Dave….I too sometimes want to jump into the fray; not just with fan fiction but the series in general. But, I’ve come to realize that although I feel that my opinion (and every else’s for that matter) is valued, sometimes it is better for tme to lay back. I learn so much more by listening to others that throwing my own voice out there. That’s why ultimately I don’t opine about certain episodes (I don’t discuss S5 at all anymore) or certain fan fics because my opinion is is already fully formed and nothing at this point would be able to sway my feelings. It never takes away from my respect for the opinion of others however, because everyone ultimately has something to offer.

      • atcDave says:

        I would never tell you to get involved in a discussion you feel will only raise your blood pressure and accomplish nothing; but please don’t shy away from opining just because you fear it will cause debate! And of course I’m talking about show discussions now, I do apply a different standard to a discussion of a professional/commercial product as opposed to the work of a hobbyist. But a little debate and dissension is what keeps things interesting around here.

      • revdr says:

        I certainly appreciate that. Unfortunately, S5 leaves such a bitter taste in my mouth that it is altogether better for me to stay completely away from it. I can’t even watch beyond Bullet Train and it has almost been 2 years. I still love the show and consider it one of my favorites but I don’t hold it in the same stead that I did before the finale. As I said my opinion is fully formed and as stated earlier if you can’t say something nice, it’s better to say nothing at all. I still love hearing the opinions of everyone else though.

      • atcDave says:

        Okay, fair enough.

  15. revdr says:

    All of you are correct in saying that the worse that any of us can do is go negative and discourage those individuals who have the courage to put themselves out there. Personally, I admire anyone creative enough to have an idea and are willing to share it with us. Like it or not, we don’t have to read it. I love reading fan fiction; I just don’t use it as a tool to make me feel better about an episode, the finale or the series in general. Fan fiction for me is just fun. I wish that I had that type of creativity inside of me.

    • atcDave says:

      Interesting point about what we read for, and how that may affect our likes. I’ve mentioned before, the real emotional connection for me with Chuck is more the characters than the story or setting. So that may make me more flexible than some in regards to major Alternate Universes, including non-spy stories. But it does make me pretty rigid on wanting to see Chuck and Sarah as recognizable to canon, and see them happy together. In fact, that last point pretty much defines what I find fun in a story.
      But as I said above, I see no reason why every writer should have to write to my satisfaction. If its not for me, that’s completely fine. I can’t imagine trying to ruin it for those who do enjoy it.
      And as you said revdr; it is always impressive to me the skill and effort that goes in to so many of these stories. It requires a way of writing and thinking that goes beyond my abilities. I’m currently re-reading SOMII, and it just amazes me the care and craftsmanship involved in setting a scene and bringing characters to life. I know my abilities and limitations; and good fiction is beyond me. I am indebted to all the wonderful fan fiction writers out there.

  16. revdr says:

    Couldn’t agree more Dave. Chuck and Sarah was always the big draw for me, both in the series and the fan fiction that I read and I usually prefer that the fiction stick to canon. But I can be persuaded to read a little AU now and then. Mostly though, I read it for the fun of it. The writer is writing from their own perspective, not mine. I respect and admire that.

  17. revdr says:

    Dave; I just wanted to let you know that I truly appreciate you. After out discussions from a couple of days ago I took it upon myself to try again by watching Sarah and Goodbye again just to see if anything changed for me. I never want to feel like I am closed minded or unwilling to see other perspectives in regards to Chuck. I really want to appreciate Chuck for what it was for me for 5 years. Unfortunately, I feel worse. Where so many saw hope, realistically I couldn’t reconcile the ending. And with that it has negatively affected the way I watch other programs now. I was invested in the Castle/Beckett relationship but because of Chuck now I just don’t care. I can accept whatever they do and it wont bother me. I think that it probably time to just go back to books and stay there. I re-watched The West Wing recently and what I got at the end was closure for every main character (including Sam). We even knew that Josh and Donna finally got together after years of misdirection. Closure. What the final five minutes of Chuck did for me was change everything I loved about the show. I accept the ending since I have no choice, but I will probably never watch it again. I would love a movie but frankly, I honestly don’t see it happening. I will continue to read fan fiction because I love it, but as I said before I never used it as a tool to reconcile my feeling about the ending. Again, thank you for your encouragement.

    • atcDave says:

      I am really sorry to hear that revdr. I know the ending ruined the show for a number of fans. It is really the style these days to end shows with no meaningful epilogue, and that is really a pet peeve of mine. I think it means writers are writing almost purely for their own taste and not really taking the needs of the audience very seriously. Obviously some will be fine with this. But I dislike it a lot. Very few shows do an adequate ending now. I think it’s all about ratings, and wanting to keep everyone “riveted” to their seats until the very end. But so many of us need a better denouement. I want to see why the whole story mattered. I want to see its final impact on the characters I’ve followed, loved and rooted for. And I want to see those characters enjoy the fruits of their victory, or how they will deal with the world they shaped or saved.
      But most often, we get to the big climax, and then just the barest hint of what came next, and it just isn’t enough for me. I remember Babylon 5 did entire epilogue episode after the climax. THAT’s what I want to see more of!

      • revdr says:

        Yeah, that’s the sad part of it for me, Dave. I have nearly 60 years of watching at lot of television; some good-some not so good. And up until Chuck, West Wing was probably to best I had ever seen from my point of view. The 1st 4 years with Sorkin were amazing to me and ever the last 3 years were good but not great. But at the end of the day TPTB honored their fans by at least telling them what happened to the principles. Heck, we knew what happened to most of them in the teaser of the 1st episode of the final season. I didn’t feel short changed. Chuck I watched live from the pilot, never missing an episode and in the end all I got was a maybe. And I felt insulted that I’m told (in an interview no less) that, oh yeah they (Chuck and Sarah) are together and wont it be fun for them to have the chance to fall in love all over again? Kind of contradictory to me. And them to further put the onus on fan fiction writers to create your own ending was just wrong. I was angry at first but then I just let it go. Maybe one day I will be able to find my way back to it but right now I don’t see that happening. The positive thing is that we are all still talking about it so, therein lies the hope.

      • atcDave says:

        I wouldn’t have quite said “insulted”, but I do agree it’s pretty poor form when fans need to seek out interviews with the writer to figure out what the heck the ending meant! I can only hope that the writer knows he misjudged when he had to explain his ending so many times. One would expect the meaning to be ON SCREEN.
        Oh well, I don’t mean to get into that for now. My impressions and feelings on that ending have been through quite a journey. I’m okay with it now, and I can accept what we were apparently supposed to see from it; but it will never be a favorite.

      • anthropocene says:

        Did TPTB themselves actually challenge FF writers to come up with their own endings? Any number of bloggers and correspondents in fandom did this, but I’m not aware the showrunners did. If not for my dissatisfaction with the finale, I would not have gotten into Chuck FF.

      • Theresa says:

        I was so mad when that arc aired. I could not believe the show runners would deliberately wash away 5 years of character development that way. I felt it was obscene. I immediately had to remedy that. So a few of my Chuck FF were created. They are listed at FF net under the Pen name Phnxgrl.

      • atcDave says:

        I’m not sure it was intentional(!), but no doubt that ending inspired a lot of excellent fan fiction. I think the end and The Misery Arc led to the two biggest surges in writing.

  18. revdr says:

    Yeah, nuff said on that for sure. But once again, I appreciate you for your thoughtfulness and encouragement.

  19. atcDave says:

    So I’m watching NBC’s live Sound of Music broadcast. And I keep thinking I want to see the stage version of “Chuck vs The Sound of Music”. Now THAT would be fun…

    • Theresa says:

      LOL That would be interesting if Team B had to become part of the play. I can see Chuck taking the Captain’s part and Sarah doing Maria in a slightly more action filled role. Casey can be the lonely Goat herder who helps the family escape.

    • quiste64 says:

      I’m telling you… it would work. Zac obviously can do musical theater, Yvonne’s done Broadway and I bet can sing better than any of us would expect. I’d pay good money to see Adam Baldwin sing, “How Do You Solve a Problem Like Bartowski.” It’d be a blast.

      • atcDave says:

        Yvonne seems pretty sure she can’t sing, so maybe Julie Andrews (or Carrie Underwood!) could dub her…

        For some reason, I’m having an even bigger problem thinking in Quistie twisted lyrics on this than the last time I watched the movie. Weird. Especially since you obviously used the movie not the stage show.
        Well that and the Monty Python influence; “all right stop that, no singing while I’m here!”

      • atcDave says:

        So Quistie do you routinely ego-surf “Chuck vs The Sound of Music” or something? Or do your ears itch? You always seem to know when you’re brought up around here!

      • quiste64 says:

        Ha! Yes, knowing when any reference is made to Chuck vs. SOM is my superpower. That and the fact that I get an e-mail whenever there’s a comment posted on this thread.

      • atcDave says:

        Ah gee, now it just lost all its magic. I’m disappointed.

      • I’d love to see Chuck vs. SOM brought to life – SOM II would be a too BIG a stretch. The song count alone is daunting! Only up to chapter 35 on the Soundtrack and there are over 50 pieces of music that are heard/referenced/sung/part of the background of that story. That doesn’t include the ones that I think are implied by the author. If you’re interested in seeing Quistie’s eclectic musical tastes, go here: http://mysongstory.tumblr.com/SOMIIsoundtrack.

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