Chuck vs the Frosted Tips (5.03)

The final episode of the Morgansect arc.  Morgan is in full blast jerk mode as he abandons Chuck for Verbanski.  Chuck and Casey set out to get revenge, while Sarah tries to fix the situation.

After the jump, we’ll discuss Frosted Tips. 

I think this is the strongest of the Morgansect episodes.  And judging by our Chuck This poll I’m not alone in that assessment.  Coming in at 67th overall it is by far the top rated of this arc.  My first thought is to argue that ranking and say this is a much better episode than the numbers indicate.  But the more I thought of it, 67 puts it at the low end of average.  And I still consider any average episode of Chuck to be a wonderful thing.  So maybe that’s about right.

Really I think this is a terrific episode.  I’m not even going to say too much Morgan this time.  Considering this whole arc is “Morgan-centric”, I think it comes out about right.  Far less of him than I feared, and Morgan’s story here is a lot of fun.  In the “big picture” I think its also an important story.  But first the fun.  As Morgan starts to lose memories he is losing control of himself.  He is apparently losing his self control and restraint.  Hard to believe Morgan had restraint, but seeing what little he had stripped away affirms that indeed, Morgan had restraint.  As he loses touch with Chuck, and experiences power like he never has before, Morgan becomes a pretty big jerk.  Maybe a bit of Napoleon Complex, maybe his inner super villain  hero is coming out, and he clearly isn’t up to it.  And Morgan the jerk is so much fun.  He has entitlement issues run amok, and now delights in terrorizing everyone in his sphere.

Of course there’s more to this story.  Casey is also having some issues.  After initially being interested in Gertrude, his reaction is, shall we say, complex when Gertrude poaches Team B’s pet idiot.

Chuck is also out of sorts due to Morgan’s betrayal.  Unfortunately, Chuck has dealt with Morgan’s inner jerk before, and he has a hard time looking too deep for what is going on.  And this is all kinds of funny.  Chuck and Casey are bonding in righteous indignation over the wrongs they’ve suffered from Morgan and Gertrude.  The mission to Verbanski’s headquarters is one of those perfect, laugh out loud, Chuck at its very best sort of moments.  Casey and Gertrude do a very interesting tango, while Chuck goes one on one with Morgan.  Ultimately that comes down to pantsing and a tranq dart.  Just a typical Chuck mission…

This has all left Sarah as the only adult on the team. As funny as Chuck, Casey and Morgan are with their various malfunctions, Sarah keeps a level head and becomes Morgan’s advocate.  Its the sort of role that always suits her well.  Morgan is clearly family to her, and in this case, the history she doesn’t have with him works to her advantage.  While Chuck writes off Morgan as just being 14 again, Sarah looks for a real answer.  She has a long talk with Ellie that tells a lot of what’s wrong, and is hugely important for informing us about Sarah’s own outcome in the series’ finale.  We learn that Morgan’s memories are still in there, and that hearing about his past will help him reconnect to it.  This exactly foreshadows what will happen with Sarah at the very end.  We saw it play out two different ways in two different people, but both are really the same.  When Chuck, at Sarah’s urging, uses an emotional and formative event from Morgan’s past to help him rediscover himself we see the scales fall away from his eyes.  Morgan remembers, barely, and reconnects with his friend and with himself.  In two months we’ll see Sarah in this same place.  But unlike Morgan, Sarah will want all of it back, she will ask for those memories from Chuck, and with laughter and tears she will reconnect with Chuck and herself just the same.  Optimistic?  Maybe.  But I’m positive that’s what we were meant to see.

And I love where this episode ends up.  Morgan, temporarily, back under the Bartowski’s roof when Sarah extends the invitation to the homeless traitor.  I like that.

Like last week, the “B” plot here is mostly independent.  I say “mostly” because there is some thematic similarity; the fog is lifted for Jeff about the same time it is lifted for Morgan.  yeah, that’s weak.  But this story is so much fun.  Starting with Devon trying to fill his first full day with Clara, and failing miserably.  When seeing his commercial convinces him a trip to Buy More is in order he ends up rescuing Jeff from one of his destructive behaviors.  Apparently its enough for Jeff to turn over a new leaf.  I would certainly call this one of the more unexpected “B” plots they did!

Frosted Tips was really a fun time.  And I know that makes me a bit of a broken record.  Chuck usually is a really fun time.

~ Dave
ct_bar

“An Interesting Tango?”

The angriest of Tangos

The angriest of Tangos

“Interesting”, Dave? You damn with faint praise! That was the hottest fight in which we’ve ever seen Casey! You know what was wrong with it, though? It’s the music. Oh, the version by The Morning Benders used in Chuck vs. The Frosted Tips is good. It’s just not Frank. So here; I’ll fix it for ya.

Now that’s music!

Frosted with a bit of obnoxious added

Frosted with a bit of obnoxious added

Other than that, I can’t agree with you more. Frosted Tips plays much better now than it did then, and it was lots of fun then, too. Morgan all snazzy and self-confident to the point of obnoxiousness, Chuck resorting to pantsing him just to bring Morgan back down to earth, Casey coming to grips with his inner self (just like Morgan has to) and Chuck&Sarah trying to make sense of it all is fun.

The Inner Jeff

The Inner Jeff

Add Jeff discovering that his life-path has been altered by something nearly as subtle as an e-mail attachment and the laughter can cause you to miss something really important.

What could that be? Sarah and Ellie are sisters-in-law who lunch and talk and have confidences. That’s what.

Ellie: What are you saying? Is there something wrong with Morgan?
Sarah: I just — I feel like he’s losing himself. I mean, why would the Intersect act so differently in Morgan’s head versus Chuck’s?
Ellie: It’s a different program. Somebody modified Dad’s original. If you think there’s something wrong, you should have the CIA remove it.
Sarah: I just don’t think he’s gonna go for that. Like I said, Morgan is not acting like Morgan at all.
Ellie: You need to try to get through to him.
Sarah: How?
Ellie: Well, you could try to appeal to his memory… You know, I’ve had temporal lobe patients who’ve responded to stories about who they were before the injury. It doesn’t return them to normal, but it helps them cut through the fog. In this case, The Intersect. It gives them a glimpse of who they used to be.

It’s exactly this perfectly understated bit of intel that makes Frosted Tips stand out for me. Take from it what you will, but here and in Morgan’s conversation with Casey near the end, where he explains that it wasn’t all The Intersect’s fault, I see reasons to remain hopeful when the show ends.

Jonathan&Jennifer, Nick&Nora, Chuck&Sarah

Jonathan&Jennifer, Nick&Nora, Chuck&Sarah

Even better, I continue seeing in Chuck and Sarah the power couple I wanted them to be. What is it? Is it Chuck’s growth as a spy, corporate captain and now as a mentor to the new Intersect that’s so invigorating? Is it Sarah’s growing ease at being both a super-spy and a wife? Is it in the way that she’s becoming “family”?

You bet. It’s all that and more. All the timidity we saw in Chuck during seasons 1 and 2 is gone. All the hesitation that we saw in Sarah’s eyes when Chuck asked her her middle name and took her hand (in Best Friends) is gone. They’ve grown up – both of them, and not a moment too soon because Morgan needs them. Not Chuck and not Sarah – Morgan needs both of them.

Zac plays one note perfectly in this episode, and I’m convinced it was an intentional, pre-planned accident. Near the end, after being reminded of who he is, Morgan asks Chuck if they’re still friends. Zac, not Chuck, laughs and answers “No.” then he immediately chides his pal – “Of course.” I’m convinced that it was an unscripted joke between real life buddies as well as between the characters and it had an unintended effect on me.

I realized that nearly everything we see in the show, all the emotion and affection and laughter, is genuine.

And This Word

I’d like to point you this new web-site entitled Music In The Dark. It’s a “life-style” blog but since good TV is clearly part of any life-style, Karen has provided a rather cool synopsis of many Chuck episodes. I encourage you to have a look-see!

– joe

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About atcDave

I'm 53 years old and live in Ypsilanti, Michigan. I'm happily married to Jodie. I've been an air traffic controller for 30 years; grew up in the Chicago area, and am still a fanatic for pizza and the Chicago Bears. My main interest is military history, and my related hobbies include scale model building and strategy games.
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71 Responses to Chuck vs the Frosted Tips (5.03)

  1. anthropocene says:

    Now that’s what I call dedicated…posting in the middle of the Super Bowl!

  2. Christopher says:

    The first thing I can say about this episode is the opening scene after the theme that makes me smile. The interaction between Charah is more interaction between Husband and Wife, and this episode you can see the transition for Sarah into wife status would be a smooth one. The reason being is her dreams have come true. She has a family of her own now, and she sees the man she loves is upset.

    Sarah: Hey, its early
    Chuck: I couldn’t sleep, so I figured I would go to the office early
    Sarah: You should of wake me. we could of talked about it.,,,I know what
    Morgan did hurt you.
    Chuck: I am not hurt. I am just mad because the intersect is important to our business and Morgan just sold it to our competition.
    Sarah: He also is your best friend
    Chuck I am not trying to think about that.
    and she gives him a peck on the cheek.

    This to me is the kind of thing a husband and wife would do, They comfort each other, and Sarah just did this. It amazes me because in the first season she was totally opposite of this, but the caring and wanting to help Chuck has always been their. Later we get Husband and Wife doing it again this time when Chuck’s life is threatened Sarah kisses him again.

    with regards to Morgan and the Intersect. I like how Elle explained to Sarah what is the problem and it dose tie into the final episode, but I really can’t talk much about it because of the fact that I didn’t like him getting the Intersect to begin with.

    • That morning scene was possibly my favorite season 5 scene until Baby. Season 1 Sarah didn’t know how to do that. For season 5 Sarah, it’s natural.

      • joe says:

        Well said, Jeff! The idea that S1 Sarah didn’t know how to do that really strikes the right chord.

      • thinkling says:

        I do love that morning scene. I agree with Dave that Sarah always knew how to encourage and comfort him, but it was mostly mission/spy related … less on such a personal thing. Here it is so intimate, and the things that strike me aren’t so much that she’s comforting, but that she says they could have “talked” about it. Sarah? Volunteering to talk? The other thing is realizing what Morgan means to him as his best friend, something she totally didn’t get in … well, Best Friend.

    • atcDave says:

      I do really like that morning scene. But I don’t quite agree she was so different in S1; I mean no doubt she had some issues (!), but look at how she comforts and encourages in Tango or Sand Worm. I think its always been in Sarah’s nature to be a protector and a nurturer, but she was so afraid of revealing herself, and so afraid of that impossible conflict between what she wanted as a person and what she wanted to do professionally. It was unavoidable that she sent mixed messages until she sorted out her priorities in late S3.
      Now that she’s “all in” with Chuck, she’s just a beautifully strong character.

      • In Sand Worm she was awkward and manipulative with the photo frame. In Tango, she was handling an asset and focusing on moist hands. Little moments were there in S1, but that’s because she was taking her cues from Chuck or because her training was starting to fail her, though she didn’t know why yet.

      • atcDave says:

        Wow, no, totally disagree with that interpretation. Would Casey or Carina have “handled” Chuck that way? No. We saw her the same way with baby Molly too, although she was less skilled with an infant, she has the same drive to protect and nurture. Obviously that drive doesn’t include much that would expose herself emotionally, but she is willing to put herself on the line for her assets and protectees. And that includes looking after their emotional and physical needs.
        Sarah’s growth from the first season is remarkable, but it has largely to do with how emotionally vulnerable she’s willing to be. She is pretty selfless about looking out for others, until it conflicts with mission or professional issues. And that’s what gets realigned for her, once she decides Chuck, and ultimately friends and family too, are more important than mission (late S3/early S4) it strengthens those traits she already had.

        We were having these talks about Sarah’s virtues long before we got to the fully mature version. So I have no doubt many viewers saw it the same way I did.

      • lappers84 says:

        After Baby, I would consider her nurturing side came from her mother. I mean before the whole baby incident we know she kept in contact with her, even if she did physically go off with her dad.

      • atcDave says:

        Yeah lappers, I agree exactly.

    • joe says:

      I’m with you on that, Christopher. The “Morning at the Bartowski’s” scene is emblematic of what I mean about the way I wanted C&S to be.

  3. Chris Byrnes says:

    Joe,
    What is funny is if you watch the two they have been that way towards each other the entire time. Nobody has been more of a support system for each other than Chuck and Sarah, which is what makes their relationship so dynamic. The years and experiences have taught them that they need each other.

    For me the Marriage is just the final piece of the puzzle, and realistically speaking there really is no difference between BF/GF and husband and wife. The difference is insurance and benefits are better to obtain jointly, and it is easier to walk away as BF/GF. but the truth is we have to the conclusion of a journey that a makes story telling so fun
    For me the Chuck and Sarah are what is right about how relationships should be.
    In season one and two Sarah was conflicted we discussed this in great depth, and thats not important. What we know now is Charah as always been the same. The road was bumpy at times, but they never ventured off too far. They know where they were suppose to be. Best Friends and Best Partners I don’t know about you but that is in the wedding vows….

    • revdr says:

      Chris; I respectfully disagree; Marriage is the ultimate commitment. The benefits are just… benefits…but it’s more about wanting that person in your life, forever. For Sarah especially, it’s more about letting go and allowing what she thought for so long only to be a dream, to become real. Go back to her vows and listen to what she’s saying. With Chuck she found love, trust and family, things that before she had never really known or ever hoped to have. It’s freeing to just be happy and that comes from knowing that that person is your person, someone always there for you…and you for them. So for both of them it’s about so much more than being BF/GF; it’s about accepting that possibility that there really is a forever.

  4. garnet says:

    I have to think that the return of Morgan’s personality and most of his memories give me the biggest reason for thinking that his “Magic Kiss”TM might just be possible. Add to that the idea that Sarah wanted the kiss to work…I give it a solid chance. I just really wanted a bit more than a chance. And the idea of being able to fall in love all over again…Well to give Fedak and co. some credit, it sounds good on paper, it just falls a bit short in execution IMO.

    • Wilf says:

      Well, as I’ve said before, whatever the artistic or other merits of the Chuck finale, the whole idea of being given the wonderful opportunity to be able to fall in love all over again gives CF &co., for my money, no credit at all. It’s like spending years lovingly building a model or some sort, say, a huge model railway; the guy next door drives a steamroller through it, totally wrecking it; I should then, rather than being angry, thank him for giving me the wonderful opportunity and joy of starting to build my model all over again. Actually, no, no and thrice no (or even more than thrice).

      • atcDave says:

        Funny analogy Wilf. We just had a house full of friends for our Super Bowl party, including two little ones. Well I have over a hundred models I’ve built on display in the Dave Cave; made it a little hard to sit back and enjoy the commercials (’cause the game was a lost cause!).

        But no doubt, I wouldn’t have appreciated the opportunity to enjoy rebuilding!

    • atcDave says:

      Yeah Garnet re watching this episode provides the best possible context for enjoying the finale. I do believe it foreshadows the ending; but geez, WAY too subtle for my taste!

      • CaptMediocre says:

        This isn’t meant to start another finale discussion, but since the three eps are “supposedly” linked ….

        Frosted Tips is a bit of a difficult episode. On the surface, by itself, there’s not much not to like. I can’t argue with Dave & Joe with most of their points. But the episode isn’t meant to be taken by itself, it’s apparently was meant to be an important and defining chapter in the S5 story.

        This episode ends the Morgansect in an extremely weak, cartoon-like fashion with little or no consequences (a trademark of the show – I know).

        Now fast forward to the finale, where the consequences are shown to be VERY real and we’re supposed to revisit the anorexic Morgansect resolution to “make up our own minds”

        TPTB appeared to be trying to have it both ways.

        One’s interpretation of the ambiguity of the beach scene essentially hinges on the throwaway resolution of an arc that many didn’t see as important because it wasn’t treated / shown as such.

      • atcDave says:

        Well, although I guess I think a little more highly of the arc and episode than you seem to Capt, I do agree its relationship to the finale is problematic. I mean when we watch now, and see the full context, it seems plain enough. But that end is ten episodes from now! I think it’s pushing limits to expect an audience to draw such a parallel after two months. I think that’s part of why some viewers reacted so negatively to the end. Maybe if the two stories were closer together, or if Ellie’s reasoning behind the anecdotes to reconnect was reiterated, I don’t know. Ultimately I needed an epilogue.

      • Duckman says:

        I think they grossly overestimated the ability of a segment of the audience (the segment with me in it), to follow their trail of bread crumbs to the finalie. I consider myself a more attentive viewer than average and I completely missed the forshadowing till it was mentioned here. I can only imagine trying to follow watching live and missing the random episodes. I also think they underestimated the emotional attatchment of some viewers (me again).After bullet train, they were screwed with me no matter how brilliant their finalie might have been. I briefly considered not even watching the rest of the disc I was so pissed.

      • atcDave says:

        Duckman I agree 100%. My first reaction with the end was to be very angry. I was able to start putting it all together that very night, but my initial reaction was so strong I don’t think I’ll ever be completely happy with the ending. I’ve found peace with it, I guess I understand what they were trying to show, but dang, nowhere near an ending I would have chosen or wanted for my favorite characters.

  5. Chris Byrnes says:

    Honestly speaking I just finish watching the next three episodes and to be honest I had to go back to season one. The reason being is it just makes me said to watch season 5 anymore. I am watching this great couple being set up by the writers for a tragic road to the end is really not good for my heart. Here is what I mean, The first 8 episodes of season 5 were magical. Sarah and Chuck smooth transition to being married was really fun to watch. As a married man, we always refer our wives as our best friend and to see Chuck and Sarah behave this way was really refreshing

    The most i feel pain for is Sarah because of all the characters Sarah really was the change person. I didn’t realize how important Baby is to the story, and to see how her life was turned upside down was really cruel by the writers. The idea that a “magical kiss” as a way to show recover really is not good enough for the viewer, for the cast and most importantly the character. The sacrifices she did for the CIA and her father and to listen as she explains to Chuck that she doesn’t want to be a CIA agent anymore and that she want to be a normal person is really unfortunate

    The class that Chuck handle this was really remarkable because to allow your wife to recover and sacrifice your own happiness is really well what Chuck has always done. I am sorry for venting right now but I just felt the need to unload.

    If I could say anything to the writers of the show. It would be that it is an unacceptable way to end a series when you demonstrated how Sarah and Chuck are ready to take that step to be a normal couple and than you rob that chance with a story like wiping Sarah’s memories. It is like you took a pencil and with the eraser and played mad scientist. Sarah did not deserve it. Chuck did not deserve it, and the fans didn’t deserve it.

    • 08mansoor says:

      Chris,
      Those are my exact sentiments. We saw how Sarah changed from episode to episode throughout the series. She was always great, and in season 5 we’re able to see that Sarah made a complete transformation.

      Your strong man, I cannot bear to watch season 5 at all and I am not able to let go of the show(anyone know how?). I just finished season 1-4 again and again and again. I am just not able to watch season 5. They screwed up big time with the final story plot. They did not have to go with the memory loss thing at all. Why kill a character? Let’s go with the premise that Sarah and Chuck fall in love again. That does not mean she gets her memories back at all. So the great moments they had it is all gone. Why do that? Why go with hope? Did we not sacrifice 5 years of our lives? This show is a happy show, it is not crazy like Dexter, Breaking Bad, etc. Why give us this unsatisfying ending and even story plot(Breaking Bad great ending…Dexter just awful). Sarah never ever wanted to hurt Chuck, since the first time she saw him and now cuz of quinn she becomes a terminator. Really poor. They should have just made the Baby the finale and when Sarah’s mom said “did you ever think you would have all of this?” Then the show should have transitioned to a future scene and have Chuck with Sarah in their dream home with 2-4 children and have a magical moment between Sarah and Chuck to end the series. That would not be dramatic at all and maybe not the best finale for Chuck, but it would have been the best ending. If Chuck really wanted to go that route of getting Sarahs memories back I am sure he could have. He made extra governor watches and he got the new intersect. He is a batowski and he works for the CIA/has ties. His sister is a whiz when it comes to the Intersect programming. They could have created something to get her memories back, but that would be dumb to have a story plot like that. Man I am so peeved at the ending. It seriously makes me so sad. I have never in my life been crushed by something like the last 3 episodes of Chuck.

      • I agree, seeing Sarah’s character dismantled after all the work Chuck and his friends and family did to break through his shell and reach Sarah Walker the friend, sister in law, and wife hurt to see. The unintentional impact is that her relationships with her friends are gone, even if she reconnects to Chuck. Even Chuck grew as a person, evident in his more confident demeanor. With the way it ended I became cautiously optimistic for them in their potential future together.

      • Chris Byrnes says:

        Every since I discovered the show three months ago. its the only program on my television. I wish I gave the show a chance when it was on the air, but the way I am now with shows I would of waited for the entire season to play out and watch it straight through.

        These are the best group of Characters that I love I love the family feel you get when you watch these characters interact, and the best part is they were like that off camera which made it even better

      • joe says:

        That seems to be the case, pretty much, Chris. From the clips I’ve seen, Zac, Josh and especially Adam all seem very much like their characters (although Adam is a lot more articulate than Casey and Zac sings much better than Chuck).

        I’ve come to see Yvonne as more bawdy and far less reserved than Sarah, though. Not that Yvonne doesn’t have a shy side. She just likes to have a belly-laugh noticeably more than Sarah Walker.

        All in all, it’s good to separate the actors from the characters.

      • oldresorter says:

        Mansoor – one suggestion I’d make is to write the final scene’s finish, with your own happy, magical ending. It was how I started writing fan fiction. I don’t think it would take more than a thousand words to really shape the final you want.

        Even include the epilogue scene at the dinner table (I did the breakfast table) in the kitchen of their home in the future with their children.

        I was shocked at how much peace such an effort brought me.

        That’s the best advice I can given you.

        Good luck. Trust me, I know how your feel.

      • revdr says:

        mansoor; believe me when I tell you that I understand just how you feel. You are right, watching season 5 is difficult for me to watch as well. I’m never going to like the ending. But, I have come to terms with it because, no matter what, it isn’t going to change. Now if writing your own happy ending via fanfiction works for you then, by all means, please do so. Anything that will make it easier for you to accept the finale, go for it. Me, not so much. I don’t think that it’s my job to correct or re-write something that should have been done by the original author/writer. It is not our fault that he decided to go the way that he did, although I will always feel like, in the end he was either really naïve or just didn’t care that an artsy, ambiguous ending would cheat a great deal of his fans. I’m gonna love Chuck no matter what, but I still don’t have to like the way it ended.

      • anthropocene says:

        But…post-finale fan fiction isn’t a rewrite, and none other than Fedak invited everyone to imagine or craft their own ending.

      • atcDave says:

        Yeah Anthro exactly right. CF pretty much said the point of the open end was to let each fan construct their own “what’s next”. Now I would be the first to agree that doesn’t really work for me, I really need a proper epilogue to be satisfied.
        But that openness has led to a large number of fans writing down their versions of what comes next. And so many of those epilogues have been very well done, very satisfying. It may be a mixed blessing in the sense it took a weak canon ending to spur so much writing. But its ALL blessing to look at the large volume of excellent work that’s been generated by it!

      • revdr says:

        Yes, I know that he did….and it to me was a huge cop-out. That’s not my job. It was his. I’m not going to bash him, but CF was covering himself. I would respect him more if he had just admitted that he intended to leave it ambiguous. Don’t tell me after the fact that, oh yeah they are together, when it clearly wasn’t written that way. Hopeful yes, happy no. We didn’t see it. It was cruel and unfair. Post finale fan fiction is not going to make up for the end of the series. Not for me. I have read some really great fanfics both re-writing, and adding to the last 4 minutes, but it isn’t the same. And many good post finale fics as well. It’s just never going to reconcile anything for me. I’m sure that we will dig deep into all of this in about 10 weeks.

      • 08mansoor says:

        Revdr,
        I am on the same page as you. I cannot do my own version of the ending or any parts for that matter. Although I am impressed with a lot of the fan fiction writers, because at times it really feels like it could have been an episode, it just doesn’t bode well for me. I like to follow authenticity only(material used on air), because I know it actually happened and everyone will have the same piece. I think the writers dropped the ball big time and at times I blame NBC for that. I think some fans are really great for accepting the finale of Chuck and for coming to terms with the show, but unfortunately I am not one of those. I am going to try and rewatch season 5 or at least the final two episodes. Never has a show, book, movie, even real life events affected me like Chuck. I kind of wish season 5 never happened, even though there was some good episodes in season 5 and character transformations and how strong Sarah and Chuck became as a couple. But they were able to destroy Sarahs transformation with the dumbest ending ever. I don’t think Sarah will really get her true memories(feelings) back, however I think she will end up with Chuck. Because she still probably feels something. The ending just sucks, because in some way we lost Sarah just like Chuck did, in terms of the Sarah we watched season 1-5(exception of last 3 episodes). Thats why it is so hard to deal with. Season 4 was done well and the finale was exceptional. They chose to burns us and in some ways this may have been there plan, since the start of the show. How else did they get those video logs? I was really mad, angry, extremely frustrated with how Dexter ended and I am just heart broken with the way Chuck ended. Personally I enjoyed almost every episode of Chuck and I thought it was a great show. Once again the ending sucked and at times they would recycle their material (I didn’t mind). Had they given me the happy ending I wanted I would give Chuck a rating of 15 on a scale of 10. Sadly with the way it ended I consider it a 7, and the only reason was the way they ended the show. They should have made this at the middle of the season and let Chuck have 2 episodes to get Sarah back completely and were all able to “witness” Sarah being back to normal and having them live in their dream home. Alas my complaining means nothing and nothing will change, unless they make a movie. In some ways I wish I could have my Chuck memories suppressed. The cliche “Is it better to have loved and lost then to not at all.” Personally I rather have not loved at all, because love hurts(Jeffster). I hope Zach Levi could give us news that they will be shooting the movie in 2015, or that a movie will not be happening at all. I don’t like to have false hopes. If they would do a real chuck movie fund or even webisode series they would be able to raise anywhere from 5-30 million fund from they fans. Assuming 100k chuck fans would be willing to invest 50 bucks for a chuck movie. Chuck fans would easily be able to support the movie financially (probably half the expenses).

  6. lappers84 says:

    I thought Frosted Tips was a half decent episode – certainly some amusing scenes, especially Casey stalking his prey at the beginning (“weird move, Casey”) as well as Chuck describing Morgan as a miniature Tom Selleck.

  7. Christopher says:

    See the ending does not bother me so much its when it was shown that bothers me. If they would of shown that scene lets say like they did pink slip where they showed what happen 6 months prior to Chuck becoming a lemon. How about a 6 months later or even a year later just to finish the story off.

    Why do the fans of Sarah and Chuck have to be left at the alter sort to speak. Why do the fans have to write story to make themselves feel better about a story that was suppose to be concluded to never be seen again. A lot of the time during the series myself was more interested in watching the scenes where Sarah and Chuck were really exploring their inner romantics and emotions.

    Two people that were so right for each other from the moment the cameras came on. Two Characters that made the show bigger than it anticipated on their own admissions they never wanted to be a romantic show, but were forced to acknowledge that the fans were into Charah. The reason was it was done right. The two were not forced together they gradually moved forward. Chuck made mistakes and Sarah made mistakes, but nothing kept them apart. They became friends and work themselves up the ladder that makes relationships work.

    The fact is there is only one episode for me that makes the whole ending so bad and that is Phase Three. Sarah Walker basically going all kill bill to get to the man she loves back. Not stopping for anyone not Casey, not the CIA, not even the most dangerous place. “I want to spend rest of my life with you. I don’t care if you have the intersect or not, without you I am just a spy” Those two lines are what makes you love and admire Sarah Walker. Its something she’s felt from the moment she met Chuck and to the day she married him. Its telling him if you go on your own again. just remember I am a trained assassin. or crying when she thinks Chuck got blown up in the nerd herder. Its ready to pulll a gun on long shore or saying take off your watch.

    Its warning women don’t hurt him, or getting his degree or simply take a photo that she keeps in her suitcase cause it makes her feel safe. Its sacrificing herself to go into Volkoff Industries to rescue Chuck’s mother. Its believing in him that a tooth has Intel in it. This woman would of done everything and anything for Chuck her Chuck. Not Jill. Not Hannah, Not Lou, but Sarah’s Chuck. It is something she wanted all along.

  8. atcDave says:

    Just a quick comment about the season and ending arc guys. I don’t mind finale discussion throughout, this is a “big picture” rewatch and it will be impossible to avoid.

    But, let’s keep a few things in mind, like the fact the finale was broadly popular and well regarded. We didn’t do a finale impressions poll that I recall, but other sites did, and something like 80% of viewers thought it was a wonderful episode and an awesome ending. That doesn’t mean any of you has to like it, but it does suggest we’re a little out of step when we start trashing on it too much. If it doesn’t completely work for you, that’s fine, it doesn’t completely work for me either. But remember your intense dislike is just that, YOUR intense dislike. Its not a statement of absolute quality, or lack thereof.
    And also be careful with statements about what was shown or wasn’t. The writer says Sarah completely reconnected with Chuck on the beach. Not that all her memories returned, but that Chuck and Sarah were fine. And I see that. Many viewers saw that. It really stinks that so many viewers didn’t, and I agree entirely with calling that a story telling failure. But that doesn’t mean that isn’t what happened, or that the character of Sarah was destroyed, or that five years of character growth were destroyed. That pointedly is not true. The ending was meant to show that they’d won. They’d survived the final challenge, they were together and happy about it. Chuck and Sarah’s love overcame every challenge. Bummer to all who didn’t see that. But MOST viewers did.
    Just remember when writing your comments that MOST viewers were completely happy with the end. In fact, the first poll we did right after the season showed Goodbye as the single best episode of the season. Later polls put that in some doubt, Baby seems to be the clear winner as we moved a little further past the event. But Goodbye and the whole finale arc is NOT unpopular or widely regarded as a failure. It is FAR more popular than Season Three.

    I just think a little perspective is in order. Be respectful of the fact most viewers liked the episode. And me mindful of the fact we will delete disruptive comments. Our Season Four discussion DID reach that point, I’d rather not do that again.

    • mr2686 says:

      Well said Dave. I loved Goodbye, but have come to the conclusion that there are some that hated it, and that’s ok too. It’s just not going to harsh my mellow. (hey, how about that 60’s pop culture reference)?
      Christopher, I would think that Phase Three would have made Goodbye that much better for you because that whole final arc and the finale showed the extent that Chuck would go to help Sarah. It completed the circle of what each would do for the other. That’s pretty special in my book.

    • Dave says:

      atcDave

      Been waiting for finale to talk finale, but I thought it was fine. To be perfect for me I needed one more sentence/sentence fragment.

      Perfect for me is after Chuck tells “our story” and they kiss, Sarah reaches up and places her hand on Chuck’s cheek and says “We’ll be OK”.

    • revdr says:

      Absolutely right Dave; I am in the vocal minority, but I greatly respect those who liked the finale arc. While I didn’t hate it (hate is way too strong a word), I just felt it incomplete and a cruel way to end things, I have come to accept it since it is canon, and nothing is going to change anything, no matter what. But we have plenty of time yet to discuss it all since we still have 10 more weeks (and beyond) to discuss the relative merits (or lack thereof) of the finale and season 5 as a whole. I am just thankful the we had a season 5 at all, to discuss. Lets not take that little gift for granted.

    • atcDave says:

      That was all well put guys.

  9. candm3407 says:

    That is my very sentiments rev I just wish we got something more, and sorry to everyone if my posts bothered people it. was not my intention. I am also not trying to influence peoples opinion on the finale Arc It is just my POV

    • atcDave says:

      Yeah Candm, a lot of viewers had that feeling, and I’m not trying to stifle any discussion. It was just a sort of pre-emptive strike. There are passionate viewers at both extremes on that episode, and I’d like if we can all discuss together. When either side gets too strident it can either shut down or inflame the other.
      So we’re trying to keep that middle ground, where nobody’s opinions are insulted and nobody feels shut out.

  10. oldresorter says:

    On the current events front, does anyone else get a Deja Vu feeling watching Castle either this entire season, like S4 of Chuck all over again or at least this weeks ep felt like a certain Chuck s4 ep? Small spoiler, a wedding dress knocks Beckett’s socks off this week, haven’t we seen that one before? Felt like the 3rd or 4th s4 theme Castloe borrowed. Now all we need is Rick to get kidnapped and taken to Thailand!

    And POI, is starting to find it’s grove again for me, I wasn’t liking the darker, and serialized nature that the show was starting to exhibit. This week’s POI episode, fit my case of the night with a waterfountain resolution at the end needs to a T (or is it tee or tea?)!!

    • atcDave says:

      Yeah I really liked both of those episodes. Although on Castle they may actually have to USE the perfect dress Kate found. It was funny when they were talking about dates, all I could think was, well it won’t be in the fall, they will either have the wedding this spring or next spring. They wouldn’t start a season with it!

      I agree entirely about the more serialized episodes on POI, I’ve been pleased to get back to a more episodic structure. I liked the last couple episodes a lot. Although the loss of Carter is still huge. No matter how well done a death scene is, is leaves a black hole afterwards, and there’s no recovering from that. I notice especially my wife’s enthusiasm for the show is much less now.

    • joe says:

      I figured someone would mention it sooner than this, Jason! 😉
      I didn’t care for Kate’s dress, but then again, I didn’t care for the one Sarah used in Bank of Evil either. I rather liked the one used in Cliffhanger, though.
      Fashion maven I am not!

      • atcDave says:

        That actually puts you in agreement with my wife Joe, I think Sarah’s actual wedding dress was more traditional than the other two. At least that’s how I would describe it. And if I remember the story correctly, Yvonne chose that dress; I think the two you don’t like so much were chosen by the costuming pros!

      • thinkling says:

        I haven’t caught up with Castle, yet, but I agree with you Joe (and with Jodie, Dave) about Sarah’s dresses. I liked the real one much better. I knew to my toes that the one from the Castle wardrobe wouldn’t be the real one. Glad I was right. I remember it the same way, Dave … that Yvonne Picked out the real one. I really liked it.

      • atcDave says:

        Well if Joe, Jodie and Thinkling think it I guess I do too! Really, I agree.

      • joe says:

        I suspect you’re right about who chose those gowns, Dave.

        Forgot to mention – I’ve been enjoying POI a lot too these past few weeks. Shaw is finally growing on me (did I just type those words?) and I do believe they’ve been slowing expanding on the concept of The Machine having a non-localized and completely autonomous nature now.

        I picked up that, during the intro, when they show Root now, the still is labeled “analog interface” by The Machine. Pretty cool idea!

      • atcDave says:

        Yeah ’cause some machine’s “analogue interface” is just what I want to be! It’s so twisted!

        I think they’re softening Shaw a lot. And yes, it will always be hard for a Chuck fan to admit affection for any Shaw. She often has a bigger part than Reece now. I suppose they consider her a replacement for Carter, at least time wise. But the role of the character is so different, it just isn’t the same.

      • thinkling says:

        Yes, Carter is sorely missed. I guess they needed the operation to finally have a cost in the inner circle, and Carter was the highest cost. They could kill off Harold or Reese, and the others wouldn’t have made as big an impact. It was well extremely well done, but, as you said, it leaves a big shadow. The absence of a character becomes a presence of a different sort.

      • atcDave says:

        Isn’t it interesting though that they replaced a fairly complicated and nuanced character with a pretty one dimensional one? Even if Shaw grows a lot, it feels like a big loss of the human element on the team.

      • thinkling says:

        Oh yeah … big time. Carter’s ghost is the new character on the show. I think the show has really lost something that I’m not sure it can replace. Was that the intent? Apparently her demise was planned from the beginning. Maybe it’s another case of a character becoming larger than they thought she would.

      • atcDave says:

        Yeah Thinkling that would be exactly my guess.

      • oldresorter says:

        Yes and no on Carter’s loss. Shaw is one dimensional, but Reese has become more two dimensional. He feels the same loss as we do, I feel like the intent is that he takes more of the heavy lifting in sorting out right from wrong like Carter did (character hero journey), while shaw takes his more one dimensional black and white killer role.

        I was starting to not like the show too right after Carter left, but I didn’t like the machine arc replacing the case of the night procedural show. It was too damned expository and deep, not enough moving parts and flow. I wonder if some of what you guys feel is that, or all of it is Carter’s loss? For a few weeks, the show wasn’t doing to well IMO.

        I would not be surprised if each season or two, the female lead changes, and with each one, more growth occurs for John. I hope we don’t end up with a real love arc for Reese and Shaw, I’d do that with the next lead, who I’d make very innocent, one who sees that any killing is wrong, even killing for good reasons. I’d plan to end around s5, with the love of John’s life on the line. Will he save her this time, or will she die like Carter, leaving John Reese forever lonely and unhappy? LOL! Sorry., Now I’m writing fan fic on the darned blog!

      • atcDave says:

        Well I do agree Jason that too much of the machine story is pretty tedious, and that may have contributed to a couple of weaker episodes.
        Interesting thought about the reawakening of Reese. I certainly wouldn’t object to humanizing him further, and really that has been going on all along. Ultimately I hope we see him happy, but that still seems a long way off.
        I hope you’re wrong about changing the female lead! I don’t have much patience with that sort of thing. Even though Shaw is in most ways a big step down from Carter (although I do find her funnier!) I would rather see her grow than see her go as quickly as she came. But I agree I never need to see her with Reese either. They’re too much alike to be an interesting couple. Although I would say if they do become a couple, I would really pity the burglar who ever tried to enter their home…

      • mr2686 says:

        I miss Carter, but still think the show has a lot of good, so I’ll keep watching.
        On another front, I know not everyone Is watching the new show “Intellegence”, but I was surprised to learn that the Dr./Scientist that created the brain chip in the series is actor John Billingsley, and he happens to be married in real life to our own Gen. Diane Beckman (Bonita Friedericy ). Small world considering that the themes are, although not the same, at least along the same line.

      • atcDave says:

        Oh its funny they got him for that show!

      • oldresorter says:

        MR is the other Chuck show, is it Intelligence?? any good?

        One show I’ve been interested in this season is Arrow. It has plenty of action scenes. Lots of silly plot hole laden story, but it is comic book mythology afterall. What I am curious of, is he show has 2 sister LI’s (one is the eventual comic book wife of Oliver) and a 3rd PLI for the green hooded hero. The PLI was not planned, from what I understand, she (Felicity Smoke) has sort of hijacked the comic book mythology, as she is so funny, while she exudes charm and sweet, innocent chemistry with the lead. I think the writers are a bit baffled by what to do. I bring this up, cause I think that is sort of what happened on Chuck, they didn’t exactly plan on telling the Sarah Walker Bartowski story, the screen sometimes takes on a life of its own, and the writers end up chasing the tail of the dog.

      • thinkling says:

        Heh, that’s funny, Jason. Talk about a character hijacking the show (well, not quite). I think Felicity may be my favorite character … and Laurel is about my least favorite, right now. I think Felicity was going to be a brief, two or three season part, but everybody loved her, so they made her permanent.

      • atcDave says:

        At least with Chuck we had the advantage of no external canon weighing on decisions. I think the whole Lana thing became a huge burden to Smallville. She became so popular, they dragged getting rid of her out WAY too long. I thought is obvious by about S4 they needed to either break from canon, and say THIS Clark stayed with Lana, or get rid of her already!

  11. revdr says:

    Yeah, but Lana was a big part of the Superboy mythology before the John Byrne revamp and the original Crisis On Infinite Earths did away with Superboy altogether in the 80’s. When they decided to do Smallville, they meshed together all of the myths….as for Felicity she does at least have comic book roots (Firestorm) as opposed to the Chloe Sullivan or Diggle characters that were created specifically for each show.

    • atcDave says:

      I think whatever the rationale, she was kept on too long. Way past the point of being annoying. I think once Lois was introduced she had to go! (Or don’t introduce Lois. Again, I’m not so wedded to any mythology that I really care which, the overlap was too much. It felt a show that didn’t know where it wanted to go).

  12. noblz says:

    Frosted Tips (FT) falls in the lower tier of episodes in S5. Season 5 was as good as any other season, but with the exception of the outstanding episodes (for me they were Hack off, Baby and oddly enough Santa Suit) every episode had something bad stuck into it but had some great stuff as well. In the Outstanding episodes all the stuff fits together well, for me.

    In the “good episode” tier are Sarah/Goodbye (did not like memory loss and missing line at end, everything else was good), Bearded Bandit (Morgansect bad, Sarah/Gertrude and Buy More commercial good), Zoom (Morgansect bad, seduction and ending were great), Business Trip (too much Morgan, but Buy More convention was a hoot), Kept Man (all up to swamp scenes was great, swamp rescue and oblivious Chuck were not so good) Bullet Train (all good but the Buy More story was, to me absolutely horrible).

    In the lower tier were episodes that were largely poor, but had something really good in them. Curse (again oblivious ridiculous Chuck, but Sarah was great), Bo (pretty bad but the Jeff/Lester portion was a Hoot) then there is

    Frosted tips where just about everything to do with Morgan was not good to me, but the Chuck and Sarah, Sarah and Ellie and especially the thing between Casey and Gertrude in her office were good and solid. Sarah as Casey’s love advisor has to be the high point of this one and they opened and ended with it.

  13. Pingback: Episode of the Week: Chuck vs The Frosted Tips (5.03) | Chuck This

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