Episode of the Week: Chuck vs the Ex (2.06)

NBC Synopsis: ABSENCE MAKES THE HEART GROW FONDER—JORDANA BREWSTER (“THE FAST AND THE FURIOUS”) and TONY HALE (“Arrested Development”) GUEST STAR—Chuck (Zachary Levi) runs into his ex-girlfriend Jill (guest star Jordana Brewster) while on a Nerd Herd call. In an attempt to save face, he lies to the girl who broke his heart and tells her that he is more successful than he really is. When Chuck flashes on Jill’s boss—a research scientist who may have developed a deadly bio-weapon, he, Sarah (Yvonne Strahovski) and Casey (Adam Baldwin) must find out if Jill is involved. Meanwhile at the Buy More, Big Mike (Mark Christopher Lawrence) nearly chokes to death, which leads company efficiency expert Emmett (guest star Tony Hale) to implement a mandatory CPR course taught by Captain Awesome (Ryan McPartlin).

Chuck This Ranking: 70
Dave’s Ranking: Almost ten places lower

Full Write Up: Chuck vs The Ex (2.06) by Dave and Joe
Arc Write Up:  The Good, The Bad and The Jill by Joe

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About atcDave

I'm 53 years old and live in Ypsilanti, Michigan. I'm happily married to Jodie. I've been an air traffic controller for 30 years; grew up in the Chicago area, and am still a fanatic for pizza and the Chicago Bears. My main interest is military history, and my related hobbies include scale model building and strategy games.
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44 Responses to Episode of the Week: Chuck vs the Ex (2.06)

  1. resaw says:

    At the beginning of this episode, Chuck appears to be pining for Jill. Yet when he sees her at the conference, he refers to her as the “brunette with an extremely cold heart.” That description hardly seems like he is pining for her. And when Beckman presents the date mission to Chuck, he is again extremely reluctant. And I would suggest, Sarah’s completely supportive of this mission, even seeing it as an opportunity for Chuck to gain “closure.” It’s only after he blows it at the restaurant and takes it upon himself to plant the bug in Jill’s room that things change rather dramatically.

    My initial impression is that Chuck approaches Jill’s room still in mission mode. The words that seem to get him into the room (and win Sarah $20 from Casey) are, “From the second I saw you, I knew that I hadn’t gotten over you, Jill.” I’m not sure what to make of this. At one level, I think it is certainly true based on his initial reaction to seeing her. That’s a sign of not having “gotten over” Jill in a negative sense. From the positive perspective, he hadn’t gotten over her in the sense that he wanted to show something good about himself to Jill. Whether that was because he wanted to be appealing to her or because he really did want closure, I’m not sure. My initial thought was that the phrase was a ploy to get into her room, and I think that both Casey and Sarah believed that to be the case as well. As far as I can tell, Sarah remains unconcerned about Jill as a romantic rival; the bet in Chuck’s favour was based on her assessment that Chuck is a “reasonably attractive” man.

    And then Jill kisses Chuck. A genuine kiss, not a cover kiss. I don’t think there is any suggestion here that Fulcrum knows anything about Chuck such that Jill would be ordered to woo him. Back in the van, Chuck seems a bit blissed out, as it were, and that is where I think Sarah clues in. Here is where the wondrous Yvonne presents her usual amazing range of expressions to hearing from Chuck, “She kissed me.” To be fair, I think Chuck only clued in himself a few minutes earlier. Of course, Chuck blows it again by contributing to Jill’s phone call with Sherry.

    Certainly the scene at the end where Sarah sees Chuck emerge victorious after demonstrating bravery (not without some buffoonery as well) in the face of the virus is the killer scene of episode. One moment she’s proud of his accomplishment and pleased that he is safe, beaming with positive feelings, and then Chuck and Jill kiss. How crushing that must be. She’s admitted a great deal to herself already about her feelings for Chuck in the preceding episodes so far this season, even if she hasn’t acted upon those feelings except in a way that can be interpreted as “for the cover,” and then to have those reluctantly allowed feelings betrayed…. And yet, what else could she have expected? Given the way she tells Beckman that “Chuck has real feelings for Jill, it seems clear that she is haltingly returning to the mode of thinking that real relationships are never going to happen for her.

    I’ve rambled on a fair bit here, perhaps not altogether coherently. For me, this re-watch is about trying to get a better handle on Sarah’s point of view, so call this thinking out loud. Thanks for the opportunity.

    • Joel says:

      At the beginning of this episode, Chuck appears to be pining for Jill. Yet when he sees her at the conference, he refers to her as the “brunette with an extremely cold heart.” That description hardly seems like he is pining for her.
      I think this is realistic enough. People can have very complicated and mixed feelings about these things. Also, there’s a difference between thinking about something from the past that is gone forever and how you actually react when it’s actually put back in front of you.

      • atcDave says:

        Yeah Joel, even if I don’t care for the triangle stories much, there’s no doubt an ex can mess you up a lot! I do have some sympathy for how Chuck is upended by Jill.

    • Ernie Davis says:

      I never thought of Chuck as pining for Jill as an ongoing thing. I always saw it as he came across his Jill breakup playlist while looking for some music and then started thinking of Jill and started playing it out of a sense of nostalgia.

      As far as what Fulcrum knows from all appearances it isn’t until Chuck shows up at Jill’s door with dozens of first responders that she knows he’s a spy. Spoiler alert, at that point she starts inserting herself between Chuck and Sarah whenever possible. Attempting to turn Chuck in to an unwitting double agent.

      Since I’ve already dipped my toe in to discussing Fat Lady…

      Given the way she tells Beckman that “Chuck has real feelings for Jill, it seems clear that she is haltingly returning to the mode of thinking that real relationships are never going to happen for her.

      That is heartrendingly evident at the start of the next episode.

      • atcDave says:

        Yeah I actually like that part of it a lot. Sarah trying her hardest to step aside, even when it hurts her. To me, it further ennobled an already hugely appealing character. I even like that she was more aware and more controlled than she had been with Lou; like she’d actually given the matter some thought. I think she’s more aware now of how she really does feel for Chuck, and more aware she “can’t” have what she wants.

        As I’ve said, Sarah owns the Jill arc.

      • anthropocene says:

        Absolutely true, when seen in the context of all that transpired before this episode.

  2. Joel says:

    I’m going to go against the consensus – I love this episode.* If I ranked season 2 it would be in the top half and maybe the top third, and if I were to rank every Chuck episode it would be top 30 and probably higher.

    I don’t have time to post about why, but maybe I will later.

    *The consensus on this site, anyway – I’m not sure the dislike for the Jill episodes is universally shared. People here seem to put more weight on the Chuck/Sarah relationship than some other Chuck fans do.

    • atcDave says:

      The other Jill episodes all scored better here. Even back at the old NBC forums “Ex” was a pretty broadly disliked episode. Way too many awkward and uncomfortable moments for my taste.

    • anthropocene says:

      I have a special fondness for this episode because it is the very first episode of “Chuck” that I watched live—though I caught only about half of the episode, after channel-surfing into it.

      Starting here, I began with a VERY different perception of “Chuck” than I came to hold after watching subsequent episodes. I knew nothing of Chuck and Sarah’s romantic history. (Nor of Jill’s rejection of Chuck.) What caught my interest was a likable and bright nerd—only a little bit the buffoon often portrayed in the NBC ads for the show, which never intrigued me at all—who was somehow partnered with two bright and very attractive ladies of action. I didn’t notice Casey much, except as the foil for Chuck’s slapstick bit with the kiss.

      There was the whole bioweapon/hazmat-incident angle and dialogue about viruses and antidotes and biochemistry class at Stanford. So this episode seemed as much science fiction as spy drama. It was funny, sure…but not dumb. There was plenty of drama. People’s lives were threatened, and the likable nerd and brunette scientist (assisted in some way by the tall, cool, blonde agent) collaborated to save them! Right then I was hooked just enough that I resolved to watch the next episode…and so on.

      I did catch on about the romantic triangle, after the final scenes of Sarah looking on unhappily as Chuck and Jill kissed outside the hot zone—and then at the end when Ellie spoke of Sarah, Chuck got uncomfortable, Jill called Chuck, Chuck talked about the cover relationship, and Sarah listened in on the conversation. But consider this—if this had been the first episode YOU saw, whom would you have thought was Chuck’s true friend? Without any backstory, you might see the Sarah of episode 2.06 as the heavy: a slightly creepy stalker (as I initially did!).

      Even though Jill was soon proven to be the baddie, I was never really certain about Sarah and the Chuck-Sarah relationship…until “take off your watch” happened, quite a ways down the line. No doubt after that!

      So…this episode will always be one of my favorites.

      • atcDave says:

        It seems we’ve heard from a few viewers who discovered the show with this episode. No doubt it would make for a different impression.
        I still remember one of my first impressions from the Pilot was “funny that they cast a prettier girl as the sister than the romantic interest”. But I was completely sold on Sarah pretty fast. Mostly by the end of the Pilot, totally by Tango.

      • anthropocene says:

        I would have, also, if I’d seen season 1 first!

      • oldresorter says:

        Dave I watched Chuck initially because of Sarah, LOL, Lancaster that is. I too was sort of bummed when I realized she had almost no role in the show. I’ve said this several times, but she absolutely ‘stole’ the scenes she was in Everwood as a LI guest star. She was employed by genius, full of himself Doctor Andy Brown as his babysitter, and she ruled his household, such that he and his teenaged son had to hide from her. that was until one of them developed romantic feelings for her.

        My first ep may have been Suburbs just a few days before Pink Slip, so I agree wholeheartedly with the idea that the first ep you watched shaped your opinon. I saw Best Friends / Colonel / Ring in my first 5, so in lots of ways, the angst of the first two seasons affected me very little, I think that made s3 especially difficult to tolerate.

      • atcDave says:

        Although it’s funny OR, I think a lot of viewers who came later to the show were less “traumatized” by S3. But it did effect you a lot!

  3. Martin Traynor says:

    I came to chuck well after the series ended, as I did with Firefly. So I was already familiar with Zach Levi from “Less than Perfect” (which I loved him in), Sarah Lancaster from “Everwood” (Which had one of the sweetest, most romantic theme songs ever. I have an extended version that nearly moves me to tears every time I listen to it), and of course Adam Baldwin. I think going into it with some familiarity helped me like it that much more. But I absolutely fell in love with Sarah at that Nerd Herd desk when she first walked into the Buy More. And by then end of the pilot I was hooked for good on the show and cast.

  4. mr2686 says:

    I’ve watched Ex enough times now to realize it’s just never going to get better with me. 91 out of 91 and if there was a spot for 92, it would be there. LOL. The only, small part that’s funny in about the first 32 minutes is the “idea” that the CIA would set up a restaurant where everyone knew Chuck. After that, you have to wait till about the last 11 minutes where Chuck’s trying to save the day (and Casey, LOL) to find anything that’s even remotely good. I’ve just come to the conclusion that, for me, this one’s a totally dud.

    • atcDave says:

      Wow, and here I thought I was extreme on this one!

      I also love Jeff making a diversion by claiming Chuck has Rabies. But yeah, other than that, there isn’t much I care for here.

  5. Martin Traynor says:

    Chuck’s relationships with OLIs never bothered me as much as Sarah’s. Now I’m sure part of the reason for that is because I am a guy. But I think it’s also due to the fact that Sarah was always sending Chuck mixed signals and shutting him down when it looked like they could be going somewhere.

    Lou was early enough AND short enough that there was no real damage, and Chuck and Sarah shared that epic first real kiss at the end of that one anyway. Jill had history on her side, and though the timing didn’t sit too well with me given how the C/S relationship was progressing, I still liked that Chuck was able to get closure with her, allowing him to emotionally mature and making him ultimately a better catch/match for Sarah. Not a lot of fun, but not too bad. I actually liked Hannah, at least on the plane. I thought she and Chuck really hit it off, she was smart and nice and of course, gorgeous. And short-lived as we’ll. Now, I am no fan of triangles either, so no one was good for Chuck but Sarah.

    For Sarah, Bryce never really bothered me, and I never really saw him as much of a threat. I think they showed that while there was history, Sarah was never really in love with him. But Cole really upset me. Yes, he was cool and good to Chuck, and although Chuck had “broken up” with her, He did so because of Sarah. So her liking Cole and being tempted by him didn’t set well with me. She came off as kind of confused and not very committed to Chuck at times, though ultimately she came around. Plus, Chuck and Sarah were so much further along in their relationship by the time he came around. Sh** will not be discussed. Horrible.

    I felt that during their initial three year “courtship,” Chuck was not only at the mercy of Sarah’s emotional blackmail (we can be together/we can’t be together), but was a victim of loving a woman who would not commit to him, which Is why I find less fault with his dalliances…though I, like Dave, mad NEVER a fan of love triangles.

    • atcDave says:

      We both may dislike triangles, but we come at it all a bit differently. I could sympathize with Chuck being frustrated, but I often end up far more frustrated with Chuck than Sarah. Starting with Lou, who I just didn’t like. I saw no appeal at all, so I didn’t sympathize with Chuck. With Jill, I understood the connection better; but as you observe, he was in a pretty good place with Sarah, even if the “under the cover thing” was officially broken up, Chuck and Sarah together were in such a good place I was really cranky for the distraction. In the end though, I think this one worked out the best. Hannah I liked enough, maybe it all would have worked better if she’d been in place of Lou; but it was just absolutely, categorically too late for THAT story. There was NO WAY to use another round of triangles at that point without making Chuck look like a creep and heal. So no surprise, he did.
      For Sarah, I found it less bothersome until the end. I always saw that Sarah’s mixed signals were to herself at least as much as they were to Chuck. And I really appreciated the hopeless conflict of interest she had. In love with an asset, she knew she would never be “allowed” to be with, re-assignment hanging over her with any hint of compromise. All while unwilling to trust anyone else to watch over Chuck. I thought it was a beautiful set up with awesome potential. Bryce was a nothing. He made Chuck feel insecure, but apart from one kiss Bryce stole from her, she never gave Bryce anything; and she chose Chuck over Bryce three times. So I’m fine with Bryce.
      Ditto Cole. He may have briefly taken Sarah’s breath away, but she seemed more committed to Chuck than ever, except for one moment when Chuck was snooping.
      Shaw is a huge problem. Mainly because he was so intensely unlikable from the very start. Sarah falling for him makes her look utterly stupid. Ultimately he may be the biggest problem of the bunch if for no other reason that the fact he went on too long. If Sarah had snapped out of it as soon as Chuck dumped Hannah we would have had a handful of truly terrible episodes that were easily ignored. But this horrible arc became too big, too much a part of the show and mythology, and its just a grotesque way to ruin virtually an entire season. In my entire life, this gives Chuck the biggest swing from “really good television” to “unbearably horrible television” I have ever seen. Just cringe-worthy shatteringly bad stuff.

      • noblz says:

        atcDave

        I agree with all this, except I give Chuck some slack with Lou and Jill and for Sarah with Bryce and Cole. Sarah controlled the pace of everything until mid-season 3. Chuck reacted to conditions that Sarah set in each case. In mid S3 (AH), Chuck takes charge and Sarah responds.

        You are absolutely right about the S3 non-sense. Given the way Shaw treated Sarah, there should have been no way she dashes into Shaw’s arms after he forces her to destroy Chuck (so Sarah thinks). Just mind bogglingly dumb on the part of TPTB.

      • atcDave says:

        My feelings on the S1 and S2 triangles is fairly mild; I would have prefered things were done a little differently, but I can live with it.
        But yeah, the S3 stuff just makes my blood boil.

      • thinkling says:

        I pretty much line up with Dave on this one and basically saw Sarah as the more faithful and noble of the two.

  6. Martin Traynor says:

    I agree wholeheartedly with your comments on Shaw. I didn’t want to say much about it just because you have said everything I would, better. I also agree that season three was too late for such contrivances, especially since they’d been done twice each in earlier seasons.

    I’m not sure why, but I like to think that if Chuck and Sarah could not have gotten together, I actually would have liked to see him with…Vivian. Something about her and her plight give her a connection to Chuck, and even though she was never presented as a PLI (thankfully), I thought I would have liked her better than Hannah and Lou, who was a little rough around the edges but had spunk.

    I’m glad it is Chuck and Sarah, but Chuck and Vivian would not have been too bad, again, if Sarah died or something made her acceptably not available (though I couldn’t imagine what that could be). And I mean the pre-Volkovian Vivian. Her killing Sarah does not enter into my thoughts here. This would have to the pre turned Vivian I’m talking about.

  7. Wilf says:

    Oh God, cue a spate of Chivian fics 😉

  8. Wilf says:

    Chivian aside, I actually rather enjoyed Ex. It’s by no means one of my favourites although the entire 3-episode arc makes quite good viewing for me. As others have said, Sarah’s resigned acceptance that Chuck “deserves a real girlfriend” is really poignant and underlines her views about Chuck and about herself.

  9. carrol.chuck.fan says:

    I have trouble evaluating Ex separately from the whole Jill arc just because I am one of those after the fact viewers who was able to watch multiple episodes at a time without much interruption between. These 3 play well together, I think, and leave Chuck and Sarah at a good place at the end. I was not surprised they decided to do a Jill arc given how much time Chuck talked about her as well as her supposed relationship with Bryce. In terms of Ex, it was not as fun as the other two Jill arc episodes, in part due to the changed Sarah and Chuck dynamic with Jill in the mix. I also thought the episode seemed a bit disjointed between the Chuck and Jill dinner antics and the released virus storylines, amusing Chuck-Casey kiss notwithstanding. Chuck came off a little negatively to me with all his comments to Sarah about the kiss with Jill and his enjoyment of being with Jill, while knowing Sarah’s feelings for him from earlier in the season. At this point, though, it may be that Sarah is the only person he can talk to about this as he has to keep Jill a secret from Morgan and Ellie given her connection to his spy life. I also do feel sorry for Chuck at this point. With Jill, he feels he can actually have a relationship with someone real who also knows that he is a spy. Little does he know that she is not real at all. In fact, given that we know she is a Fulcrum agent and that Fulcrum is trying to assassinate her boss who has been hiding information from them, I wonder if she was actually a little suspicious of running into Chuck at this point. Thus, she was interested in having dinner with him to see what his angle might be. But I might be reading too much into her motivations at this early point. Once she knew he was with the CIA, of course, I think it all became manipulation on her part, even if she did have some lingering affection for him as her college boyfriend.

    • atcDave says:

      Yeah I would agree with most of that Carrol. I’m not sure about initially, but certainly by Fat Lady Jill is being pretty manipulative.
      It does seem obvious that the writers were going to visit this story eventually, the seeds were sown right in the Pilot. But I sure would like to see the show where writers didn’t feel so compelled to go for the low hanging fruit.

    • anthropocene says:

      I agree that the appearance of Jill was hardwired into the series from the start. But I also think that in the balance, this arc was necessary. The end result was that Chuck could permanently remove Jill as a PLI just as Sarah was able to do with Bryce. I also think the Jill arc added to the gradual reveal that Chuck was very much in Sarah’s league as a partner and future mate. We saw that he had one very beautiful and brilliant woman in his past, before the spy world damaged him and corrupted her.

      • atcDave says:

        I always resist the use of the word “necessary” when describing story choices. I think we can imagine many ways of developing the story differently. Not to say every alternative would be better, but I think it’s the nature of fiction that it can be handled in as many ways as we can conceive of.

        Now I’m coming to realize much of my mindset on this goes back to me being a long time war and strategy gamer. It’s all about exploring alternative scenarios, and resisting the labeling of any event as pre-destined. I approach fiction in much the same way, actually even more belligerently. If there isn’t even a real event to baseline off of, I see no reason to limit the story to the original teller’s concept. Now again, I don’t mean to suggest we can always do better. But I resist calling any element necessary and think it’s always fair game to twist elements around just to see what else might work out.
        Now I agree completely that revisiting Jill was always clearly the writer’s intent. And I see much good that came from that arc, and even more from her return visit. But from a pure entertainment perspective, I want to at least state that Jill was a distraction. The truest emotional hook of the show for most viewers was the relationship, the friendship and later then romance of Chuck and Sarah. So putting Jill in the middle for four S2 episodes could easily be regarded as a mistake. Especially since later story choices essentially flushed S2 “lessons learned” down the toilet (an extremely common television failing I should mention).
        On balance, I think the Jill episodes were a lot fun and contribute much to the mood and mythology of the show. But just as so many of us get over past relationships without any actual “closure”, it might have been interesting to see Chuck simply move on and know he’s found something better.

      • anthropocene says:

        Here’s where I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree, Dave. I think it was necessary in the context of the Chuckverse, in which past mistakes, conflicts, lovers, friends, and enemies were always reappearing to cause new trouble (even if they were sometimes retconned in). Under those “rules,” Jill had to be near the top of the list.

        And I’ll counter that as much of a Chuck-Sarah shipper as I am now, I did and still do find the first Jill arc very entertaining. Jill was a complex yet believable character. She was a foil for Sarah as well as for Chuck, but Sarah’s response to her challenge was noble. Jill got in a few memorable zingers, such as “That’s ridiculous—no wonder you failed biochem!” and “That doesn’t happen!” And being a female villain uniquely equipped to use Chuck’s emotions against him made her all the more interesting to watch.

        Chuck had already seen how smoothly Sarah and Bryce worked together in a fight, and now Sarah sees Chuck and Jill pool their intellects to solve problems. Each partner is a bit chagrined but also learns something about the other—and we get more evidence of how cool and wonderful it would be if and when Chuck and Sarah got together for real. Until they did, the occasional triangulation of either of them was neither unexpected nor unrealistic in my humble opinion. I think the growth of the Chuck-Sarah relationship was well orchestrated throughout season 2, with very few wrong notes, and I also think the first Jill arc was important to that growth.

      • atcDave says:

        Well I don’t have any major disagreement with most of that, except again for calling it necessary. I think it worked out pretty well. But I guess I’m less enamored of the symmetry of it; that both exes has to be revisited was teetering close to boring. That it was mostly well executed, especially after Ex, is a saving grace. But I’ll always find these arc episodes a bit of a let down after what had come before, and weaker than much of what lay ahead.
        So I guess the fundemental impasse is that although I can bear with them; I think the show would have been stronger for skipping Jill than it is for including her. Or at least, I’m willing to entertain that possibility. I certainly don’t feel any need to have met her.

      • atcDave says:

        Actually, let me amend that slightly. I think it would have been a hoot if the first time we met Jill was after Chuck and Sarah were already happily involved. And Jill’s arc would have been her frustration at her inability to gain any control or influence over Chuck, in spite of promises she’d made to Fulcrum…

      • Ernie Davis says:

        I’m going to agree that Jill was “necessary” based on the universe the show established. One feature of that universe being that Chuck was unaware that he was part of the spy world for years until the intersect opened his eyes. Chuck has been hurt and betrayed by many people close to him, his mother, his father, Bryce and Jill. Each of those betrayals was revisited and Chuck was given closure in each case. Now granted Jill was before both his father and his mother, but as they did Bryce in season 1 and both Jill and his dad in season 2 it was clearly a planned feature of Chuck’s universe. So “necessary” in all possible Chuckverses? No. Necessary in the one TPTB decided on? Yes.

      • atcDave says:

        Oh now you’re splitting hairs! I agree completely it was a story TPTB always intended to tell. But I don’t believe any decision they ever made is so sacrosanct we can’t consider alternatives. Even on the very strongest episodes, different possibilities may either affirm the rightness of a decision, or *gasp* have yielded an even stronger product. Even if the different decision was a change from the original outline.

        Obviously, I am more interested in those “all possible universes” anymore than I am in TPTB. Especially since I think of all the many elements that made Chuck what it was, the show running was easily the weakest link.
        And yes, I’m just as happy to get in to a MacArthur vs Nimitz debate too…

      • thinkling says:

        I won’t split necessary and unnecessary hairs, but the main value I see in the return of the former lovers — Bryce and Jill — and the LIs like Lou and Cole was how much it advanced Sarah’s growth and further distinguished Chuck from all other spies and men. With Bryce, she felt how different what she had with Chuck was from the only other thing she had ever had … in other words how different a real relationship was vs a spy one. And covers and pretenses aside what they had was always real. Then Cole gave her the same comparison in the present. Every time she chose Chuck, even though the chance of their ever being together was remote at best.

        Lou and Jill showed Sarah what ‘real’ looked like and what it looked like on Chuck… and it made her want it. I think one of the most revealing things Sarah said in this arc was that she was just a cover girlfriend and Chuck deserved a real one. A lot of growth there I think.

        And yes, Sarah did own this arc.

      • atcDave says:

        That “he deserves a real girlfriend” was one of my favorite Sarah moments.

  10. oldresorter says:

    Speaking of PLI’s (or LI’s), anyone willing to comment about the way Ray Palmer won Felicity over in Arrow in a compare or contrast sort of way to Shaw and Sarah in Mask or Fake Name?

    I liked the Jill arcs. Chuck is portrayed as so clumsy and lost, that letting him have a girl seems to even the playing field with Sarah. When watching, I always felt, all the way to the scene on the beach in season 5, Sarah had way, way too much power in the relationship. I probably could come up with many examples, say like when she decided to go rescue mary, or in the final two eps when Chuck’s heart is broken and Sarah essentially feels very little, maybe pathetically sorry for Chuck and herself at best or obviously in the final couple of eps of the Shaw love interest arc, when we watch Chuck be even more pathetic and miserable for eps 8 thru 12, which he also was for most of eps 1 thru 6 of season 3 or when Bryce asked her to leave with him and go under the radar. And really at any time in the Jill or Lou arcs or anytime in season one or two really, all Sarah had to do is say ‘Yes’. So I liked the Jill and Lou arcs.

    • CaptMediocre says:

      – Ray Palmer is Felicity’s boss.
      – The necklace was like the 3.17 ear rings
      – Ray is creepy.
      – Felicity is made to look shallow and material to sell the relationship.

      No not similar at all. Somewhat better, but not enough.

      WRT the Jill arc, it never bothered me. I must be one of the few that never that that Sarah had all this power over the relationship. But then I always thought that Chuck, although somewhat naive, knew quite well what was going on.

    • CaptMediocre says:

      “… never thought that Sarah had all this power …”

      • atcDave says:

        I can see where it could depend on the perspective. Where Chuck is concerned, Sarah seems to be in the driver’s seat because at most points in the first two years, they would have been together the moment she told him she was ready for it.
        But giving Sarah that level of power ignores all the external pressures on her. From the demands of her job, to the threat of reassignment if compromised, to a lifetime of not fully trusting. I think Sarah was as fully trapped and powerless as Chuck at the start. The only real difference being that Sarah had a fuller appreciation of what the issues were.

      • CaptMediocre says:

        IDK. It think if Sarah was truly ready, Chuck MIGHT’VE jumped. (OK yes – most likely would have, but there would have been some analysis and number crunching beforehand) But for most of S2, and especially towards the end, just showed that he was more aware of the stakes than a lot gave him credit for. I just back some this awareness up to mid S1.

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