The Last Spoiler Page You’ll Ever Need – Pt. Deux

The “Joe Cries Uncle” Edition!

For your down-loading pleasure…

5.09 – Chuck vs. the Kept Man

Writers: Craig Digregorio, Phil Klemmer

Director: Fred Toye

Guest Stars: Carrie-Anne Moss, Omar Dorsey, Marco Rodreguiz, Jim Tavare

Synopsis:
“CHUCK VERSUS THE KEPT MAN”
01/06/2012 (08:00PM – 09:00PM) (Friday) : GERTRUDE VERBANSKI RETURNS WITH A MISSION FOR CHUCK AND A PROPOSITION FOR CASEY — CARRIE-ANNE MOSS GUEST STARS — While Chuck (Zachary Levi) and Sarah (Yvonne Strahovski) contemplate the next step for Carmichael Industries, Casey’s (Adam Baldwin) forbidden love, Gertrude Verbanski (guest star Carrie-Anne Moss, “The Matrix”), walks back into his life with a questionable mission in South Beach. Meanwhile, Jeff’s (Scott Krinsky) enhanced intelligence leads he and Lester (Vik Sahay) to suspect that something unusual may be happening at the Buy More. Joshua Gomez, Ryan McPartlin and Mark Christopher Lawrence also star.

Promo:

Spoilers:

Narrator: “As for Chuck and Sarah…”
Chuck: [staring at a ‘stick’] “Changing… it’s changing… changing… What is it? An equal sign? An Arrow? …”

5.10 – Chuck vs. Bo

Writers: Kristin Newman

Director: Jeremiah Chechik

Guest Stars: Angus Macfadyen, Bo Derek

Synopsis:
From ChuckTV.net and SpoilerTV:

Chuck and Sarah must go to Vail on one last mission, where they get some help from Bo Derek; Jeff and Lester continue their mission.

Spoilers:
10-2011: TVLine:

Macfadyen’s arc (as a villain) will span the last four episodes of Chuck‘s fifth and final season

5.11 – Chuck vs. The Bullet Train

Writers: Nicholas Wooten

Director: Buzz Feitshans

Guest Stars: Angus Macfadyen

Synopsis: From TV Edge:

A MISSION ABOARD A JAPANESE BULLET TRAIN SPIRALS OUT OF CONTROL, PUTTING THOSE CLOSEST TO CARMICHAEL INDUSTRIES IN DANGER – ANGUS MACFADYEN GUEST STARS — When a mission in Japan becomes a hostage situation, Sarah (Yvonne Strahovski) and Chuck (Zachary Levi) must face the merciless Nicholas Quinn (guest star Angus Macfadyen, “Braveheart”) aboard a speeding Japanese bullet train. Meanwhile, the mission leaves Casey with an impossible decision. Joshua Gomez, Sarah Lancaster, Ryan McPartlin, Scott Krinsky, Vik Sahay and Mark Christopher Lawrence.

Spoilers:

Promo:

5.12 – Chuck vs. Sarah

Writers: Rafe Judkins & Lauren LeFranc

Director:

Guest Stars: Angus Macfadyen

Synopsis: From Spoiler TV:

01/27/2012 (08:00PM – 09:00PM) (Friday) : SARAH MUST KEEP A SECRET FROM CHUCK IN ORDER TO ACCOMPLISH A MISSION — ANGUS MACFADYEN GUEST STARS AS ‘NICHOLAS QUINN’ — After a harrowing mission, Sarah (Yvonne Strahovski) returns to Chuck (Zachary Levi) with a huge secret. Meanwhile, Ellie (Sarah Lancaster) and Awesome (Ryan McPartlin) are presented with a new opportunity that could change their lives. Adam Baldwin and Joshua Gomez also star.

Spoilers:

5.13 – Chuck vs. The Goodbye

Writers: Chris Fedak

Director: Robert Duncan McNeil

Guest Stars: Linda Hamilton, Mekenna Melvin, Angus Macfadyen

Synopsis: From Spoiler TV:

01/27/2012 (09:00PM – 10:00PM) (Friday) : CHUCK’S FINAL MISSION BRINGS HIM BACK TO HIS ROOTS AS HE FIGHTS TO SAVE HIS FUTURE – ANGUS MACFADYEN AND LINDA HAMILTON GUEST STAR — Chuck (Zachary Levi) enlists his family, friend and some unexpected allies as he races to stop Nicholas Quinn (guest star Angus Macfadyen, “Braveheart”) from destroying everything Chuck has built over the past five years. Yvonne Strahovski, Joshua Gomez, Adam Baldwin, Sarah Lancaster, Scott Krinsky, Vik Sahay and Mark Christopher Lawrence also star.

Spoilers:

799 Responses to The Last Spoiler Page You’ll Ever Need – Pt. Deux

  1. joe says:

    Scream loud enough and you will be heard! 😉

    Have at it.

  2. joe says:

    In “spoiler” news (well, not really, but close), here’s yet another great Yvonne Interview. This one is special. She seems to express some very nice personal thoughts about her time on the show.

  3. ArmySFC says:

    not a spoiler but i wanted to get the thoughts going. one thing i have not seen brought up is this. does anyone think in the last scene sarah finally tells chuck her real given name? if the amnesia angle plays out it could come up. not a prediction on my part, just a thought.

    • atcDave says:

      It would be awesome if the worked that in. Although my expectation is lots of action with very little time for sweet sentimental stuff. I hope I’m wrong about that!

    • jam says:

      I’m sure Chuck already knows her real name.

      The thing is, she is Sarah to Chuck.. always has been and always will be. I’m sure she fully considers herself “Sarah” at this point. It’s the name her husband uses, it’s the name under which she’s the happiest she has ever been… not just a spy but a real person.

      So no, I think such scene would be pointless.

    • MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

      I’m with jam. Sarah is the name that her mom uses, and it’s her legal name. Everyone she cares about calls her Sarah (except Casey still uses Walker and her dad uses Angel). Another “real name reveal” would feel out of place. How would that go? “We’ve been married almost a year, so I finally think it’s time to tell you this non-life threatening detail from my past that I don’t care about.”

      For amnesia to play a part, Sarah would have to be regressed before the age she started using all of those aliases.

    • dkd says:

      I’m with jam and Jeff.

      Chuck probably knows her *birth* name. They may have even had offscreen discussions about it.

      But, Sarah is her “real” name to him. I don’t see the point of an onscreen discussion about something the couple probably had offscreen a long time ago.

      • jam says:

        Yeah, I should clarify my above post… at this point Sarah is definitely her “real” name. Her birth name is unimportant.

    • joe says:

      I’m with you too on that, Jam. I was just thinking today of that Sarah Walker who couldn’t even disclose her middle name aloud to the man she knew she was falling in love with. Sarah’s gone from whispering “Lisa – my middle name is Lisa” to “No secrets – no lies!” Quite some distance.

      So yeah, I think we can permit ourselves to believe they’ve talked about a lot of things about which we haven’t been privy. And not knowing Sarah’s original (not “real”, but “original”) name was something with which Chuck was okay from the start.

    • atcDave says:

      Oh yeah, well I say you’re all wrong so there….

      I like the idea of amnesiac Sarah falling in love with her husband all over again, and offering up something real like her birthname or birthdate as a token of trust and affection. The fact Chuck surely already knows it is secondary to the gesture.

      • joe says:

        Chuck did say (to Ellie) that he has to earn her love “…again and again…” 😉 The amnesia could very well cause them to call back to that scene.

      • MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

        It would take a while to develop something like that. If there’s amnesia, I hope it’s short.

        For anyone who thinks Chuck doesn’t know Sarah’s birth last name and birth date, here’s the LA County online marriage application:
        https://lavote.net/SECURED/MARRIAGE/mrglicense.asp

        There are required blanks for “Last Name at Birth” and “Date of Birth.”

      • ArmySFC says:

        Jeff, not if it’s been in place for 5 years. this is for FUN mind you but what if my manchurian/brainwash thing is already in affect. think total recall/hartley. prior to her meeting chuck they gave her the personality we first saw. over time chuck broke through the programming and this new intersect is clashing with the one she had all along?

      • atcDave says:

        I do agree Chuck knows all such details at this point. Although as far as the marriage license goes I think we can say “Sarah Lisa Walker” has been her LEGAL name for 10+ years (at least it was on the legal docs in “Family Volkoff”).

        But I do agree such a story would take longer to tell than they’re likely to allow for. But if Sarah regains all of her memories we’re back to the question of what will Quinn take from them?
        My guess is that it is about the memories, but she will have recovered enough by the end to know who Chuck and her loved ones are. I think that’s consistent with Yvonne’s comment that the finale would all about the Chuck and Sarah romance. I can easily imagine Sarah falling for Chuck again as fun and sweet; but still with a little tension as we aren’t sure exactly how well things will work out for them until the very end. Sarah either gets a flash (!) of regained memory or confirms her love for her husband.

      • ArmySFC says:

        Jeff, sure there are blanks to fill in. remember the prenup had walker and that would considered legal. how many legitimate id’s do you think a CIA agent has? fake birth certs would not be a problem especially for online or a a court house. you really think every ap is checked out? it’s probably, looks good, got the money, here ya go!

      • MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

        I realized I wasn’t clear, the marriage license application requires _both_ the legal last name and the birth last name, if they are different. Now if the license was printing in Hawaii… (just kidding–I’m not a conspiracy nut.)

      • MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

        Sure she could put down fake names. By why would she? She would want the marriage to be legal. If she used fake names, then at some point in the future the marriage could be voided.

      • dkd says:

        It would be a significant gesture, if it were important to Chuck at this point. It’s not. Back when Sarah was the mystery woman that Chuck desperately wanted to know better, it was important.

        But, after a few years of being in a relationship, I would think there are more important things Chuck would find meaningful than her birth name. Even her mother didn’t use it.

        It’s nearly meaningless at this point.

      • ArmySFC says:

        Jeff, nope i got it. that was my point. a CIA agent could get a false BC that says sarah lisa walker. that takes care of both blocks.

      • MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

        A false birth certificate from the CIA is still false. The marriage would not be legal if it were ever discovered. Decker would have loved messing with them by voiding the marriage. Why risk it? The only reason I can think of to use a false name would be to intentionally mess with the fans. Since the characters don’t know fans exist, I think we’re safe.

        LA County does not require a birth certificate. Any photo id, such as the Sarah Walker drivers license that her dad swiped, would suffice.

      • ArmySFC says:

        jeff again so any false name would work, lol. one thing i see you doing is using the future to expalin the past. like decker. he wasn’t a thought when the got married nor is the possibility of divorce. its all in fun BTW. just remember divorce is also an option. if you want to rule that out then rule out anything else that could end the marriage. i think that’s fair don’t you?

    • JC says:

      Gotta disagree that they’ve talked about her birth name or anything else from her past. Baby was all about Sarah’s not sharing things about herself and her past with anyone especially Chuck. The guy had to play the husband card to get her talk about what kind of house she wanted. In fact from what I’ve seen I’d say Chuck knows exactly what we do as fans or maybe a little less.

      • joe says:

        I was thinking that Baby was like, the exception that proves the rule. Ya know?

      • MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

        Molly was a unique situation. Sarah committed a crime without the protection of a CIA authorized black-ops mission. More importantly, it was to protect Molly’s life. If Chuck had been captured in Hungary and knew about the baby, Molly’s life would be in danger.

        When I watched that “husband card” scene, I thought it was a cute way for Chuck to put Sarah at ease about revealing her childhood dreams. Sharing private thoughts was still against her instincts, and she needed only the tiniest of nudges. I was surprised at the reaction I saw on the boards. It’s not like Chuck yelled, “I’m your husband! I’m tired of you not telling me every little thing you thought over 15 years ago! Tell me now!” Then again, people who post on boards are not embarrassed about sharing opinions that might not be shared by others, so they are less likely to understand how a naturally private person often needs a little gentle prompting.

        I agree that Chuck might not know much, but that is because of what he said in Cougars. He doesn’t need to know who she was because he knows who she is. However, the marriage license requires the background info. We also know Chuck and Sarah do have personal conversations that not on screen. For example, we never saw the scene in which Sarah tells Chuck about the CAT Squad. It just came up in an episode because it was important to the plot of that episode.

      • atcDave says:

        I’m willing to assume Chuck and Sarah communicate pretty well most of the time. But we also know Chuck has said he doesn’t need to know all about her past, so its never surprising if any particular issue hasn’t come up.

        And people seem to forget how normal that is! Nobody just instantly knows everything there is know about their spouse. All of us have memories that don’t often come up. Even if we aren’t trying to hide anything its hardly uncommon for new stories and tidbits to come up even after many years of marriage. Given that much of Sarah’s past is classified or illegal its hardly surprising she might be a little more private than some of us!

  4. PFFFtttttt…. I was sure the other spoiler page would last another couple days.
    Glad I didn’t bet against Joe! – ha
    Dave – I think that the general comments from Zac posted in the past couple days would confirm your suspicious: 5.12 does most of the heavy lifting… then 5.13 return to the essence of Chuck; with a dose of comedy – while still trying to wrap everything back up to get us to some kind of closure…. hmmm – or at least a ‘closing the door’ to recent events. I’m still not sure we’ll ever feel like they’ve been able to answer all our questions – or get us all to place of complete resolution for our character… heck would a momentary equilibrium of cosmic forces be too much to ask?

    • atcDave says:

      I hope that’s how it happens Gringo! And I’m with you on thinking certain things will never be answered. There have been so many dangling threads over five seasons I just don’t see any way some of them get sewn up. And that’s fine. I don’t need a tidy package for everything. A few loose ends will be good for the fan fiction community…

  5. andyt says:

    Hey there. For the last few days I have been feeling that the Chuck finale is going to be somewhat like the ST:NG finish “All Good Things…” In that episode, they went back to the very first episode and bad guy Q. As he said, the trial is never over. Picard had to continue to prove that humanity deserved to live and expand.

    Here it feels like Chuck has to prove that he has earned everything since that first episode. I actually like the idea of tieing back into S1 Chuck and seeing how different a person he is from the derailed, somewhat weary slacker of S1 to the person he has become. This could be very fun.

    Just an observation; although this clearly dates me. (I am not that old though I watched that show in college). Still hoping for the new Shins song in “Goodbye”, the more that I listen to it the it feels like a Chuck song.

    • MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

      That got me thinking. “All Good Things…” is probably a top 15 episode of ST:TNG for me. It’s one of the few series finales I would put in the top tier a show. Thinking through a list of about twenty other shows I’ve watched through a planned series finale, I can think of a lot that I liked, but no other ones that would make my top 10-15% of the show’s episodes.

      An episode which is thematically like “All Good Things…” could be very satisfying to me (without the time travel, of course). Looking at how other finales have fared, I should probably limit my expectation. Making the top 15% of my favorite Chuck episodes would be extremely hard anyway.

      • andyt says:

        Jeff, I would heartily agree that “All Good Things…” is among my top ST:NG episodes. I think it sums up everything that show was about thematically, character wise and just a fitting send off to further adventures among the stars(and movie screens). That is what I hope the Chuck finale gives us including a sense of further adventures for the characters.

        I would say that the show has not been on such a roll since S2. I have loved just about every episode this seasons and the last four or five have left me more pumped up and not wanting to wait until the next week. It will be strange to not watch a new “Chuck” after 1/27, but as they “All good things must come to an end”.

      • atcDave says:

        I can think of a lot of series’ that were not well served by their finales. A few shows were utterly ruined for me by them. “All Good Things…” is a stand out though as finales go; but so was ST:TNG as a series really, once it found its footing it was as good a show as I’d seen.
        As we were discussing the other day, I think Chuck has done well with season finales; none of them have been my very favorites, but I haven’t disliked any of them either. So I remain mostly optimistic for “Goodbye”. I think I’m still more wound up by this being THE END than I am about the finale in particular.

      • andyt says:

        Honestly, Dave I can’t think of any shows that were ruined by their last show. I didn’t like the Seinfeld finale, but I had lost enthusiasm for that show long before so it didn’t matter. I think that the TPTB’s track record on finales is encouraging in that we will get a good one.

      • ArmySFC says:

        Dave i agree several shows i watched to completion had poor endings. some were very well done and others not so much. chuck’s have been good but none that have rocked my world. the one good thing is they don’t have to leave anything open if they don’t want to.

      • atcDave says:

        The original ending for Magnum was such a downer I probably would have never re-watched the series if they hadn’t been forced to redo it (they killed off Magnum, then the show got picked up for another season…. the previous finale was re-edited).
        The finale of Enterprise was bad enough I’ve never been tempted to re-watch. I suppose I’d add Smallville to that list but I was thorougly sick of the show by then any way. A few others, like MASH were bad enough I’d never re-watch the finale, but it didn’t actually “ruin” what came before so I can still watch the occasional episode.

        I am fairly fussy about such things. Shows that end on what feels like an inappropriate note for the show, or even with too many disappointments I feel no need to revisit. A lot of times it just means the wrong character death; chances are if they kill off a character I related to or particularly liked I’ll never go back to it. Although sometimes its just an ambiguous, unsatisfying end. This is an even bigger problem for shows that expect to be continuing their story, then get the axe. But I’ve seen plenty who knew they were ending do the same sort of thing.
        Obviously this makes little difference to ratings anymore. Even back when a big “Rockford Files” re-watch meant picking it up from the premier on WGN and watching all the way through; the show was long into syndication at that point and its ratings were pretty insignificant anyway. Now it mostly means disc sales. A very disappointing end means I won’t buy the discs.
        To be clear, I think there’s almost zero chance of this happening with Chuck. I’ve mentioned a few times what my irreducable minimum is (Chuck and Sarah still standing, together, and happy about it); I honestly can’t imagine them failing to do that.

        But I have seen shows undone at the very end before. So I will remain just a little on edge for the next 9 days!

      • joe says:

        Jeff, Andy – All Good Things was a great send-off. I’d agree that it was one of the best finales ever.

        For comedy shows, the Mary Tyler Moore Show and Frasier finales were excellent because they were so understated, I think. M*A*S*H wouldn’t make the cut because it overreached. It tried to be profound and dramatic when simplicity would have done the job.

        I’m certain that this crew understands the fan’s attachment to Chuck and Sarah. We’ve been shouting it to them for over four years now, so they should! The only challenge for them is to surprise us somehow.

      • joe says:

        I can grok that, Dave. I didn’t get past the first season of Enterprise (I never saw Quantum Leap, so Bakula was a surprise to me). Voyager was a disappointment from the get-go, so I was never tempted to re-watch either, with or without good finales.

        Seinfeld was an interesting case. I sort of enjoyed the show, despite it’s NYC orientation. People didn’t like the ending, I understand (the principle characters wound up in jail). But I suspect that many misunderstood that the four of them were pretty despicable. It was truly just desserts!

        Jeff – another Shin’s song would be fantastic!

      • MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

        I really liked the Frasier finale, but there are too many other great episodes to consider it a top one. I thought Monk’s finale was very satisfying, even if it wasn’t the best episode. Most of the finales I’ve seen have been good, but not great. Enterprise and Smallville were exceptions. I almost lost interest in Enterprise during S3. It was better in S4, but then ruined it with the finale. Smallville should have been cancelled five years earlier. The bar was so low for the last several season, the finale didn’t bother me as much as it probably should have. I didn’t like several parts of the Alias finale, but it had some great parts too, so I won’t say it was bad. It also had a Dave-friendly epilog.

        Highlander did a “It’s a Wonderful Life” thing, that was kinda cool. It was a great excuse to bring back dead cast members. That might be fun for Chuck–a ‘what would have happened if Chuck never got the Intersect’ story. However, the idea doesn’t fit with any of the spoilers.

        A lot of people here had say they want more that 2 minutes at the end. Babylon 5 had two full episodes of wind down, one set eighteen years later. The finale was nominated for a Hugo Award, but I think it was overdone. I think the sweet spot is after the last commercial break (typically 5-6 minutes).

      • MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

        I mention “It’s a Wonderful Life”, and then I find out the NCIS is doing that for the 200th episode on Feb 7.

      • atcDave says:

        Yeah Joe I agree about Voyager; although I did watch every bit of it, it remains my least favorite “Trek” and the finale was fittingly weak.

        Unlike Jeff, I’d say S3 was the strongest for Enterprise, but S4 was very good until that stupid finale.

        Jeff I’ve heard others say the end of Alias was very well done. I was frustrated with the S1 finale and quit at that point. I’ve thought many times I should watch the whole thing now, although I’ve heard much of the show was a pretty messy soap opera, so I remain undecided.

        Quantum Leap was another of those series I loved, but the finale kind of sunk the whole thing for me. Not sure if I could watch it again.

        Jeff I agree completely with your take on B5, although I think I could handle a little more epilogue than you suggest! But two full episodes wrapping things up was a bit much. Not even Lord of the Rings got such treatment… maybe LotR got it right, I could handle 40 minutes of send off for Chuck and company!

      • MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

        I felt like Trek’s major arcs dragged (DS9 last season and Enterprise S3) because they were stretching to fill a full season. Maybe both could have been better if they compressed a few episodes. One of the many complaints about S3.0 of Chuck has been the length of the trapezoid. At least the initial Chuck S3 order of 13 episodes prevented the arc from dragging 22 episodes.

        S3 Alias is comparable with S3 Chuck. Both gets better when the main couple get back together and the Shaw-equivalent person becomes evil. The last season ends stronger than in started, but that is partly because of some off screen soap opera stuff (a lesson in why it’s better for show leads not to get involved). If you try Alias again, I suggest trying to get through season two, up until the last ten minutes or so. Before you watch the last five minutes, decide if you want to continue. It’s one of the worst twists ever. (The Alias S2 ending might have been worse than Morgansect was for Morgan-haters.)

        I remember liking the QL end, but I wasn’t a die hard fan. I might have reacted differently if I was more invested. LotR needed an extra 20-30 minutes to do the Scouring of the Shire.

      • armysfc says:

        Jeff to take a different track on s3 chuck, for discussion only, maybe the additional ones would have made it more palatable? they could have run the oli’s more in the back ground and moved them slower. similar to how castle does it. you know they are there but it’s not in your face. they could have fleshed out the reasons more, making shaw better to understand. sometimes the same amount of angst spread out over a longer period of time is easier to handle.

        would this change the minds of the people that absolutely hated s3 probably not, but for those that were borderline maybe.

      • atcDave says:

        Fatally flawed at conception army. I don’t believe there is anything they could have done to make OLIs acceptable in the S3 time frame. That ship had already sailed. (already overdone!)

    • MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

      Having a Shins song in the finale would be great symmetry to the pilot.

      “The Comet Appears” is a top 2 song for season 1 in the chucktv.net Ultimate Sing Off.

      • andyt says:

        Jeff, thanks. I keep voting for it. It is the quintessential “Chuck” song. The symmetry of the Shins in the first and last episodes of Chuck would be fantastic.

      • MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

        Another cool idea would be if they would use the regular, non-instrumental version of Short Skirt/Long Jacket. It might not fit with the episode, though.

      • andyt says:

        That is a cool idea Jeff.

  6. armysfc says:

    completely off topic here but i know some folks get a kick out of things like this. on white collar last night peter and mozzie had to wear ACU’s. the name mozzie was given, Casey. shout out from tim d or coincidence?

  7. Verkan_Vall says:

    Big Kev67:

    This post is in reply to a question you asked on the previous S5 spoiler page:


    That’s the interesting part of this debate for me – and I ask this as a genuine question rather than an attempt to stir things up. Why is it so important to believe that Sarah didn’t sleep with Shaw? I disliked the Shaw arc as much as anyone, but that’s because it was a cliched story – not because I need to believe that Sarah would never sleep with anyone else in the event that her and Chuck broke up.
    The Tiffany scene annoyed me because keeping earrings from someone who has tried to kill you and your boyfriend is the sign of someone who needs professional help, and trashing Sarah’s character like that made no sense – but I take it as a given that Sarah slept with Shaw, and in character terms (as opposed to story terms), that never bothered me at all.
    But some seem to need to believe something else, and I’m curious as to why?”

    Before I start, I would like to make it clear that what I write is in no way an attack on Yvonne Strahovski or the character of Sarah Walker. I think that YS is a damn fine actress and she did the best she could with the dren she had to work with in S3; if anything, this is about Chuck, not Sarah.

    Kev, like Dave, I’m one of the chumps who went out and tried to get people to watch Chuck when the showrunners asked us to between the end of S3 and the renewal for S5. This opinion is based on conversations that I had with people during that time, people who were Chuck fans, many right from the beginning of S1, but who were driven away from the show during the S3 debacle. Some of these people I managed to get back into the show during S4; most of the time, I failed.

    These people were all shippers and for them, S3 was an ordeal; one told me it was like watching a beating, and it got worse as the season went on. Not only did they have to watch while the show that they loved from S1 and S2 was killed, but any hope they had of the show that they had wanted to see, of Chuck and Sarah finally facing things together, was beaten into the ground as well. The last straw for the ones that made it to the end of the season was when Daniel Shaw murdered Stephen Bartowski in cold blood in front of his children. Why?

    Because no one marries anyone who slept with their father’s murderer.

    If Sarah and Shaw are lovers, then for some people, any chance of a future for Sarah and Chuck dies when Shaw shoots Stephen. They gave up hope and stopped watching the show, and nothing I said could convince them to give the show another look. For them, it wasn’t Chuck anymore. I think that for some people at least, this is a big part of why they can’t stand Shaw as a lover, but don’t have nearly as much of a problem with Bryce.

    Personally, I’m of the opinion that S3 went wrong in the first 60 seconds; they never should have broken Chuck and Sarah up, the will they/won’t they had gone on long enough. Hannah and Shaw as OLIs were in my opinion unnecessary, pointless and destructive.

    Now I have a question for anyone who reads this post:

    Did Chuck and Sarah have to be broken up in S3? Would it have ruined the show for you if they had stayed together?

    • lappers84 says:

      Season 3 was obviously the turning point to the future of the show and had they done things differently and actually not broken up Charah (had them work through the issues together) then it could well have cut those ratings losses, probably in half if not more. They could still have made use of Shaw and Hannah – Shaw actually being a mentor of sorts to Chuck and Hannah trying to start a relationship with Chuck but failing – both tests for Chuck and Sarah that in canon they both failed. Ultimately the ratings were going to fall eventually, that’s just the name of the game – but I think had things gone different, we may now be discussing the mid season finale and discussing the possibility of having a season 6. But there you go – We have apart from that had a damn good ride.

      • dkd says:

        Factors that influence ratings other than story that can confuse ratings arguments:
        –Long-term ratings erosion that his ALL TV shows due to the proliferation of channels which causes fragmentation of viewing.
        –Day of week factors: the move from Monday to Friday, with its lower viewing.
        –Seasonal differences: More people watch TV in the winter than spring. Hence, ratings for all TV shows tend to be higher in February than May
        –Promotion: the heavy promotion going into Season 3 actually increased the ratings vs.. These were not hardcore viewers. They were casual viewers who tuned in because of the promotion and weren’t hardcore fans. To whit, “fan favorite” Chuck vs. the Colonel had a 1.9 rating. “Pink Slip” had a 2.95 rating after being promoted heavily for two months.
        –Competition

        You have to account for all these factors before you start blaming a specific storyline. But, the bottom line is that ratings are more influenced by casual viewers, not hardcore ones. I doubt anyone here can get into the mind of someone who DOESN’T watch the show every week.

      • dkd says:

        Correction: Colonel got a 2.4 Live + same day rating. I made a mistake and quoted the “pure live” rating. To reiterate what I just said, let’s take seasonality (time of year) out of it and compare some episodes ratings:

        Chuck vs. Colonel, aired 4/20/09, A18-49 rating = 2.42
        Chuck vs. Honemooners, aired 4/26/10, A18-49 rating = 2.07 (14% drop from previous yr)
        Chuck vs. The Wedding Planner, aired 4/20/11, A18-49 rating = 1.32 (36% drop from previous year)

        If anything that data supports that the ratings dropped more AFTER Chuck and Sarah hooked up than during the tumultuous period between Colonel and Honeymooners.

        No new episode ran on 4/19/10. So, I used the closest one.

      • atcDave says:

        Lappers and VV I think you’re exactly right about ratings and a Charah story line. I’ve spoken with many casual viewers who were so completely turned off by the S3 arc, really right from Pink Slip, that they lost all interest in the show. Most, I was able to convince to tune in again for S3.5 or later. But some were beyond annoyed; the most extreme case told her husband (when Sarah threw her phone in the pool early in Pink Slip) “change the channel now, I’m never watching this show again.” And she hasn’t. S3 was beyond just a bad idea. It felt like a bitter betrayal both internally to the story (Chuck and Sarah) and externally to us the audience. The fact that certain elements of the story can be rationalized or have merit does nothing to improve it as entertainment.

        And you know I’m a firm believer all the major points about Chuck growing into the spy world and loosing his innocence would have played better with Chuck and Sarah together. Just as Sarah had been Chuck’s confidant and encourager in the first two seasons she could have performed the same role, but to an even more intimate degree in S3, with very satisfying results. There were so many opportunities for fun stories and character growth that were essentially flushed down the toilet by the path chosen. Hannah and Shaw could have been used even more effectively without the dreaded love interest labels. Hannah might have been quite funny as Chuck’s psycho stalker; and Shaw might have been an awesome character as a trusted team-mate, mentor, partner who turned traitor. Instead, many of us wound up just counting time until these characters would go away.

        But S3 is well past now. The show has delivered two awesome seasons since then. I’m actually mostly over it. Obviously my strong opinions haven’t changed. But I love the show we’ve had in S4 and S5 as much as I ever did in S2. I wish they didn’t dishonor my favorite characters so severely, but I’ve really grown quite good at just forgetting most of the details of that season. I certainly never have to watch it again.

      • Ernie Davis says:

        Ahhh… These season 3 and Shaw discussions never get old (cough!)

        I’d agree that season 3 was a turning point for the show. NBC had decided to do away with 5 hours of primetime, making shows with low but still decent ratings, like Heroes (though they’d lost me by then) and Chuck suddenly expendable. Because of what TPTB themselves will tell you was fan involvement leading to extra money to WB and the show through a Subway deal (and other product placement such as Toyota’s Olympics commercials), they were able to meet the drastic cuts NBC required for renewal. So having cut the budget effectively in half NBC scheduled Chuck as a post Olympics replacement. On any other network this would have effectively been cancellation. NBC ordered several pilots in 2011 that never aired. This could have been Chuck’s fate had Leno worked. It was only the scramble to fill the Leno hole in primetime that guaranteed Chuck’s third season saw the air. Once it was clear Leno had failed NBC moved up Chuck’s premier and ordered 6 more episodes when they were already well into production; leading to what Kev characterizes, not without basis, as the worst decision the show made. Rather than try to establish a new villain with deep personal animosity to (and knowledge of) the team, they decided to give the fans a break from the angst for a few episodes and bring back Shaw at the end.

        With a huge hole in their primetime schedule and a disasterous group of pilots NBC essentially couldn’t afford to cancel Chuck, leading to it’s renewal. Repeat disasterous pilot season for season 4, and you get Chuck’s fifth season. NBC wanted to kill Chuck from season 2 on, but couldn’t afford to.

        As for the show, they ended up producing 3 full seasons on a budget and shooting schedule that they likley (and realistically) thought would only be for 13 episodes to at least give the fans a happy ending on the DVD.

        Agreed, season 3 was a turning point where luck and a dedicated cast and crew managed to save a doomed show for the fans for another few prescious seasons. I’ll never fault them for that or the decisions they felt needed to be made to do so, whether I agree with (or like) those decisions or not.

      • atcDave says:

        You know Ernie I completely agree that the tale of actually getting S3 and beyond made is a fascinating mix of luck, creativity, and drive involving the studio, cast, crew, and audience. I’m very pleased we’ve gotten as much Chuck as we have. That I consider the first part of S3 to be an entertainment failure is a totally seperate issue. Although it might be interesting if we someday get an objective case study of the production history to see how various issues interconnect.

      • armysfc says:

        dave very true. another interesting we would find out was how much an affect matt bomer going to white collar caused. bryce was supposed to be the shaw of s3. since the show already laid the ground work for a s/b relationship earlier and a c/b friendship, it may have turned out much better. when he got the other gig you got shaw. NOTE: that’s just what i picked up around the net so it may not be exactly correct.

      • atcDave says:

        Yeah army loosing Bomer was a blow to the show. After the way S2 ended I know I was in absolutely no mood for another round of love triangles, and I’m reasonably sure I wouldn’t have liked Bryce in that role any better than I did Shaw. BUT, Bryce at least has some claim to legitimacy in that role that Shaw simply never had; bottom line is, I think I would have been less bitterly dissapointed in Sarah specifically had Bryce been involved instead of Shaw. But I’m still pretty sure I wouldn’t have enjoyed that version of the story either.

      • MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

        I don’t know the timing of when Bomer was cast in White Collar vs. when Ring was filmed. Until I saw White Collar ads, I wondered if Bryce was still alive. His eyes were open in the Intersect room, so he could have downloaded the Intersect 2.0. After White Collar debuted, I figured he’d be too busy to come back, killing my theory.

      • joe says:

        The return of Bryce will always be an interesting spec!

        I would guess that the only important thing about S3 that had to be preserved despite the cast change was the deadly threat to Sarah at the climax. I was pretty sure that if Bomer hadn’t moved on to White Collar, Bryce would have gotten the 2.0, perhaps, making him insane too. I can’t see how they otherwise could have had a “deadly” threat to Sarah at the end, requiring Chuck’s intervention.

        As he was, after they ran to Barstow, I don’t think Bryce was even a threat to Chuck (for Sarah’s heart).

      • armysfc says:

        jeff white collar premiered in oct 09. chucks s3 came back in jan 10. it was announced he joined the cast of white collar in april of 09.

      • Ernie Davis says:

        There is one other thing many people don’t consider about Chuck’s ratings declines at the end of each of the past seasons and with the move to Friday night, and it is likely a much larger cause than the shows dedicated fans dissatisfaction with a storyline. Chuck has no lead in (and never has) so it shows at 7PM in the very susbstantial central time markets. The pool of available viewers at 7PM on a Friday night or on a pleasant spring evening is just plain smaller than at 8 or 9. It’d be interesting to see how Chuck’s “share” (that is it’s percentage of the available audience) compares across the seasons. Those numbers are often harder to dig up though.

      • atcDave says:

        I believe the Pilot of White Collar was shot well before April. Even as early as the Cole arc it was rumored Cole was a replacement for Bryce because they had lost the services of Bomer. It was a minor surprise when we did hear that Bomer was available to shoot Ring. I think that was around February of 2009 when we heard both parts of that (that Bomer had a new series coming on USA, but would be back one last time for Chuck). Usually new Pilots are shot in January, so that’s probably when White Collar got started, with USA officially committing to the series in April.

      • MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

        Thanks, Army. Ring aired April 27, 2009. Assuming Ring was filmed four weeks before airing (a relatively safe bet), then it would have been filmed before Bomer was cast on White Collar in April. They might have been leaving the door open for Bryce to come back.

      • MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

        If the WC pilot was in January, the outcome might not have been known. At that point Chuck hadn’t been picked up either. That makes complete sense for them to be ambiguous about Bryce because they were leaving options open. A lot of shows like having nasty cliffhangers were several characters might die, just so they can cut them out if their contract is not renewed. At least Chuck never did that with the main cast.

      • atcDave says:

        No Jeff, they already knew Bomer was done. That night after Ring aired Fedak stated clearly in an interview that Bryce was dead and would not be back. We had all known for quite sometime about White Collar. As I said, there was even speculation that Cole was a replacement for Bryce because of Bomer’s new gig (and I mean in real time, when Beefcake ran there was much speculation about it; and yes we already knew the name “White Collar”. I’m sure you can still find mention of it in old entries on the NBC forums).

      • atcDave says:

        I suppose there could have been a limbo period there, when Ring was shot they might have thought it could go either way on getting Bomer back. But by the time it aired they knew.

      • armysfc says:

        ernie while it is true that chuck has no lead in, look at other shows that air at 8pm the same rules you stated apply to them as well. HIMYM, glee, ncis, tbbt. amongst others do very well in that spot.

        rating is based on available viewers which is anyone with a tv. share is the percentage of tv’s tuned to a certain show taken from those with the tv turned on. turned off tv’s don’t count for share but do count for ratings. my apologies if your available refers to sets turned on.

        chuck had a 7 share in season 2. s3 started out with a 7 and dropped to a 5. s4 started with a 5 and dropped to a 4. s5 has been constant at 3. basically chucks share dropped over 50%

      • MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

        Thanks, Dave. I really only started looking at Chuck blogs after the S2 finale because I wanted to know about renewals. I missed the more in depth stuff until S3 started. Searching just now, I found:
        http://sepinwall.blogspot.com/2009/04/chuck-chuck-vs-ring-greatest-american.html
        in which Sepinwall assumes Bryce is dead for good because White Collar was picked up only four days before Ring aired.

        The only death confirmations I remember are for PapaB and for Vincent: http://sepinwall.blogspot.com/2009/04/chuck-chris-fedak-vs-finale.html
        ‘Vincent is dead. But when you’re dead in the “Chuck” universe, there’s a tendency to not be dead.’ and ‘He’s dead, but don’t hold me to it.’

      • atcDave says:

        I’d still like to see Vincent back! No one kills Imhotep…

      • Ernie Davis says:

        Actually Army you are kind of cherry picking data there. Take out the heavily promoted 3 episodes in two days premier of season 3 (the only three episodes to draw a 7% share) and all other episodes of Chuck draw a 6% share with the exception of Final Exam, which draws 5% (against the DWTS premier), until you get to Chuck Versus The Tooth (and May sweeps) where they drop to a steady 5% share. In other words Chuck’s share of the available audience was remarkably consistent for all of season 3, and it’d be easier to make the argument that the drop in Chuck’s audience was after Chuck and Sarah got together if not because Chuck and Sarah got together (though I’m sure that argument has been made).

        As DKD noted you can’t compare fall and spring since they are apples and oranges, so taking the Chuck season 4 episodes that air after the mid season break you have a remarkably similar pattern, all 5% and 4% share with the 4’s being more heavily weighted to the end of the season. In other words you are most likely looking at the gradual shedding of casual viewers all shows experience than any link to the content of the episodes or displeasure among fans.

        As far as other shows with no lead in, yes, some popular shows (I noticed you only used ratings hits as examples), many that have been Chuck’s competition, draw bigger numbers. My guess is if you’d look at other networks and shows they’d show a similar pattern with 8PM shows generally drawing lower ratings than 9 and 10 PM shows and with declining ratings in the spring, while still maintaining a fairly steady share. Some individual shows may be exempt or buck the trend, but my gut feeling is that the decline in Chuck’s audience is more a factor of living long enough to see the decline that most shows see than any fan rebellion or drop in quality.

      • ArmySFC says:

        ernie no i didn’t. here is what you asked, “It’d be interesting to see how Chuck’s “share” (that is it’s percentage of the available audience) compares across the seasons. Those numbers are often harder to dig up though.” i gave you how they fared from the start to the end of each season and from one season to the next. no matter what happened during the season my start and end numbers are correct, or at least from the source i used.

        next point..”Chuck has no lead in (and never has) so it shows at 7PM in the very susbstantial central time markets.” true i used the best ones, should i go back and find the ratings for all shows that have better numbers than chuck that air at 8pm during the week to prove my point that a show can and does draw good numbers if it airs at 8pm? we can go back and forth about this all day. what you can’t show is that chucks ratings and viewership didn’t go down as the seasons went along.

      • MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

        Like Ernie said, the ratings of the first three of S3 have to be ignored because two were on Sunday and the third would have a carry-over effect.

        When the first three were written and filmed, S3 was supposed to premiere in March after the Olympics. NBC changed the schedule when episodes were added. In March after a 10 month lay-off, there would be no chance of growing an audience. The 8 month lay-off wasn’t much better, however with a two night event, who knows. Forgetting the plot points of the first three, they were not written as a relaunch that would be friendly to new viewers. They were simply three episodes that continued the story several months later. I wonder what might have been done differently if they knew the schedule in advance and wrote the three more like a re-introduction to the show. It could have even had a 3 episode mini-arc. They could have had a couple episodes introducing Charah chemistry and other great parts of the show before the break-up. I know people here don’t like the break-up, but I’m assuming the overall story stays the same. Two inserted episodes that are part of a multi-parter might have kept some new casual viewers.

      • dkd says:

        There’s an old adage that the opposite of love isn’t hate, it’s apathy.

        When I think of the reasons I have dropped TV shows from my schedule is that I got bored with them. Usually, boredom sets in when stories get repetitive or when nothing new is happening to the characters.

      • ArmySFC says:

        Jeff very true of what both you dkd and ernie said. i wasn’t trying to qualify the numbers just put them out. using your take on just dropping episodes because this happened or that happened. in JEST only, why not discount the episodes that fell on holidays, the third monday of the month, those that aired on a full moon, those that aired when a new FF was released or one updated or any other thing that comes up? you could say that s3 averaged a 6 share if you eliminate enough episodes.

        take the first three of season 3 as was pointed out they had the 7 share. what happened to those viewers? why didn’t they follow it? for whatever reasons they did not. the thing that is not in question is that viewership dropped, the question is why. that is the one question we will never know the answer to.

      • Ernie Davis says:

        Army, the point is that it’s standard methodolgy by people in the business to exclude things like the three night premier because you can’t count on those brought in by the special event and the heavy promotion becoming regular viewers. The networks do it to try to build an audience and the ratings tell you if it carried over. It is also standard to not compare fall and spring ratings. The fall and spring episodes of the same show are not even considered comperable in many cases. You can read up on this at TVBTN. You also don’t compare ratings on different nights, especially Friday.

        So my question was across the seasons, do comperable seasons hold a steady share as opposed to ratings that can be far more volitale depending on the available audience.

        The short answer is that season 3 and season 4’s spring episodes show a lot of similarity, steady numbers with a decline of about 1% toward the end of the season.

      • ArmySFC says:

        got it ernie i think. you want a comparison from the same time frame say march to may over the years? here’s what i got.
        s2 2 mar to 27 april 7
        s3 1 mar to 26 apr 6 3 may to 24 may 5
        s4 14 mar 5 21 mar to 16 may 4.

        only s3 showed a drop in shares during may. these are 18 -49 shares. also when i say to it means each week had the same share, that’s why i listed s4 14 separate. the next week it dropped to a 5.

    • MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

      We interrupt this broadcast–

      There is no way to know how much of Chuck’s ratings problems in S3 and S4 are due to the story versus the fact it was on NBC during the Leno fiasco. Additional decline can be attributed to the natural attrition that every show has.

      Chuck is currently the 4th longest running scripted show on NBC. In February, Law & Order SVU, the Office, and 30 Rock will be the only scripted shows from the NBC 2007 lineup still on the air. One is the last part of the Law & Order franchise, arguably the most successful franchise of all time. The others are carry-overs of the “Must See TV” run of hit comedies. That’s good company for Chuck. Chuck had trouble getting a renewal after S2 because of ratings. Continuing rating problems was not a surprise. Considering the new NBC Entertainment President apparently doesn’t like Chuck, I doubt it would be getting a S5 extension or S6 renewal no matter what.

      –You may now return to your regularly scheduled S3 bashing, brought to you by Chuckwin’s Law.

      • armysfc says:

        jeff…not to beat a dead horse about NBC’s ent pres but, he referred to the ratings not the show. i don’t remember him saying, i don’t like chuck. this doesn’t mean he wasn’t an idiot on how he said it BTW. i would think there is a network president out there that doesn’t like one of it’s top shows but it still gets renewed. the bottom line for networks are the ratings and if chucks were higher it would have a chance.

        think about this, body of proof draws a 1.6 for ABC and will most likely be canned. while parenthood at 1.7 is most likely to be renewed. that’s not a big difference in ratings. what is different is on ABC a 1.6 is low and on NBC 1.7 is high.

      • MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

        You’re right. He didn’t directly say he didn’t like it. There could have been a lot of reasons for the comment’s tone: he was directly involved with WB negotiations and it became more personal than it should have been, earlier that week he found out they are losing more money than expected on Chuck ads because a sponsor dropped their ad buy, he had a previous bad experience with the reporter who asked the question, his coffee needed to be decaf that morning, he firmly believes is cutting off ties to cancelled shows, etc. However, someone who likes a show /normally/ doesn’t talk like that about its cancellation. (Why does it sound like I just filled in a plot hole with an assumption?)

        It’s not just ratings or relative ratings. It’s ad revenue due to ratings + other revenue streams vs cost to license and/or produce the show. One reason Sanctuary has survived on SyFy is because the executive producers have deferred salary to lower the overall budget. It helped make the show cheaper than shows like Eureka, Caprica, and SGU, which often got higher ratings. I remember reading somewhere that most shows have actor contracts with 5-year options when the show starts. With season 6, the price goes up. Smallville survived the move to Friday for several years because DVD sales (while are unusually high for a show with its ratings because of the Superman factor). If WB had lined up a syndication deal for Chuck in advance (like Castle and Big Bang did), that would have helped.

        A different plot might have helped maintain some ratings and helped with DVD sales, but it probably wouldn’t have grown the already small S2 audience. As with all complex decisions involving millions of dollars, there were a lot of other factors in play.

      • Aerox says:

        Jeff, I was reading the first line and as I finished it, my Winamp stopped playing music in the middle of the song. ARE YOU A WIZARD?!

      • MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

        Just keep reading. Winamp will magically resume when you reach the end. If that doesn’t work, you’re on your own.

    • armysfc says:

      for me no. i don’t ship so it makes no never mind to me. i started losing interest when it became personal to the bad guys. shaw…wanted to hurt chuck because it would hurt sarah because she killed his wife. volkoff…knew nothing about chuck until they grabbed frost. vivian…wanted to hurt chuck because he tossed her dad in jail. first part of s5…again shaw because of sarah. quinn…jealous of chuck for getting the intersect.

      it became a show of personal survival vs what it was, “saving the world at 11 dollars an hour”. in the first season the bads wanted chuck because he had what they wanted and could bring the end of their domination plans. later because he pissed them off.

      • Aerox says:

        But that’s because the Intersect is $199,99 in ten easy monthly payments. They don’t have to hunt Chuck down anymore because they can go to their local Walmart and buy them in bulk.

    • BigKev67 says:

      VV,
      Thanks for your reply. You make some great points.
      I have a different view to most I guess because I went into S3 expecting Sarah to be livid at Chuck’s decision to download the 2.0. I wasn’t on the boards back then so I didn’t see the spoilers and the fan reactions – but I clearly remember watching Ring and thinking “well that’s blown Chuck and Sarah up for a while” – so I was really only surprised by how violent (in story terms) the reset was and by how very dark the tone was for Pink Slip. Seeking explanations for that is how I came to find ChuckThis.
      But there’s always more than one way to tell a story and I would have been perfectly happy – albeit surprised – to see Chuck and Sarah together, in secret or otherwise. I didn’t expect them to be together at the start of S3 but I certainly didn’t require them to be apart. All I ever require is a good story, well told, with great characters.
      I take your point about Chuck marrying Sarah after the Shaw/Steven thing too. But I’ll also say that it didn’t bother me. Logically, in the “real world” it would clearly be a deal breaker, but it was all part of the normal suspension of disbelief that the show requires for me. If I can believe that a confirmed pacifist like Chuck can fall in love with a woman who’s killed (probably) hundreds of people in the first place, then believing he could marry Sarah after Shaw shot Steven isn’t that much of a stretch.
      It was another consequence of what I still think was the single worst decision the show has made – bringing Shaw back after he was clearly meant to be dead in Paris. I’ve never really trusted what I’ve been shown on screen since because TPTB proved with that decision that they can reverse the irreversible whenever it suits them.

      • herder says:

        If I recall correctly the original story for Shaw was for him to be thrown off the Eiffle Tower, that is why there were all the Eiffle Tower shots and keychains in First Class as foreshadowing. When they went from 13 to 19 episodes it was changed so that he could be shot and thrown off a bridge so that he could survive.

        Didn’t like the Shaw/Sarah stuff, but it was one part of a mix of particularly bad decisions that included the brutal start in Pink Slip, thick Sarah, unlikeable Chuck, an incompetent mentor, a lecherous boss and a downer ending for pretty much every episode from 7 through to 12.

      • MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

        That’s interesting, herder. Even if they didn’t bring Shaw back in S3.5, I think I still prefer the bridge showdown to the Eiffel Tower. The Eiffel Tower is overused: Highlander S3 finale, Superman 2, Rush Hour 3, A View to a Kill. Unless the Chuck showdown was filmed in Paris, it probably would have looked cheesy. A Parisian bridge is easier to fake.

      • atcDave says:

        Kev I can see why Ring could have been a step backwards for Charah. I wouldn’t have written it that way, but there certainly is some logic to that. But even so, I think if the writers had been determined to just keep them apart for half a season without the OLIs would have been a VAST improvement. In fact, most of the S3 story wouldn’t have played any differently at all with Chuck and Sarah reverting to “friends” mode but still shooing off other courters. It wouldn’t have been my favorite season, but it wouldn’t have utterly ticked me off the way it did.

      • Verkan_Vall says:

        “bringing Shaw back after he was clearly meant to be dead in Paris. I’ve never really trusted what I’ve been shown on screen since because TPTB proved with that decision that they can reverse the irreversible whenever it suits them.”

        That is a great point. Looking back, Shaw’s return in S3 was when I stopped paying attention to consistency and coherence. Bringing two people back from the dead shows they didn’t have any limits.

        And then they brought Shaw back AGAIN.

  8. Wilf says:

    “Did Chuck and Sarah have to be broken up in S3? Would it have ruined the show for you if they had stayed together?”

    On the contrary. For me, they could have developed a really interesting line with Chuck and Sarah getting inexorably closer (with some hiccups/backward steps, no doubt) whilst having to hide that fact from Beckman; Shaw; Casey, even; and other powers that be.

  9. Katsumaro says:

    I agree. They could have had a LOT of fun if they played the Chuck/Sarah angle being together in S3 without really letting anyone know. That way.. they could play up the cover while not actually playing up the cover, you know? Leaves a lot of room for some good comedy too, but they whiffed on that one.

  10. MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

    Next Josh Schwartz project: http://insidetv.ew.com/2012/01/04/farscape-the-cw-cult/
    It’s written and co-executive produced by Rockne O’Bannon from Farscape. The description does not sound interesting to me, but with O’Bannon involved, who knows?

    • esardi says:

      Yeah I think I will skip anything with the name Schwartz or in particular Fedak. I still think Season 3 could have been handled so much better if they would have allowed Chuck and Sarah to jump on that train and run. They could have brought in Decker and his partner, special Agent Daniel the (LOG) Shaw to track them down. All the while Casey and Beckman were trying to protect them. I think his training would have been more better and the intersect would have no problems protecting Sarah.

      Personally I would have enjoyed that ten times more than what we got.

      • atcDave says:

        Esardi I just always figure MY S3 started at Honeymooners.

      • Verkan_Vall says:

        “I just always figure MY S3 started at Honeymooners.”

        Couldn’t agree more.

      • esardi says:

        Dave I have to tell you that out of all the things they did in season 3 to ruin Sarah’s character, I do not think they could have damaged her more then they did with the return of Shaw in that awful episode the “Living Dead”. That is where we discovered that not only did she lie to Chuck about what happened in D.C., she was still wearing the earring of the man who tried to kill her.

        That moment you were left with the impression that Sarah was not a good person and at some point would betray Chuck again. The reason I felt that way was that this was happening now that she was with Chuck. That is why Fedak and gang finish destroying season 3 for me. The Honeymooners episode was the absolute best but for the most part I could have skipped that season.

    • thinkling says:

      Well … that sounds awful.

      I have loved Chuck. However, there are styles and elements of Schwedak that I definitely don’t like. Heh, they may not have YS and ZL to bail them out next time.

      I will approach any of their future works with caution when considering watching. How much caution will depend on the upcoming finale.

      • MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

        I’ve never seen The O.C. or the Gossip Girl and I have no interest in the Sex in the City prequel that Schwartz is exec-producing.

        I’m actually more excited about O’Bannon, creator of Farscape, another action/comedy/sci-fi/romance show that I like. Then again, he did SeaQuest and this new show is planned for CW.

      • atcDave says:

        Yeah doesn’t really sound like my thing. And as perverse as it seems, Schwartz is not really going to be a selling point to me. I tend to think the things I liked least about Chuck; the sort of teen soap elements, were largely his doing.

        I may have to give Farscape another try someday, it seems to be a frequent favorite of Chuck fans.

  11. ArmySFC says:

    another snip it from tv guide…

    t doesn’t help that the finale itself is packed with trauma and heartache. “It involves the very breakdown of the Chuck and Sarah relationship,” reveals Strahovski. “It’s just awful because they’ve become such a fun, loving, ‘Mr. and Mrs. Smith’-type couple. The last episode very much asks: Will they or won’t they make it?”

    here’s the link…http://chucktv.net/2012/01/17/spoilers-tv-guide-teases-chuck-series-finale-rollercoaster/

    • atcDave says:

      Bleccch. I’m not even worried about “if they’ll make it or not,” of course they will. But this sort of story just sucks all the fun out of the experience. It continues to sound like Yvonne doesn’t care for this finale.

      • ArmySFC says:

        Dave… we know they will make it. my question has always been will the reward in the end be worth the trip or will it be a hand wave like so many others have ended?

      • MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

        This is a summary of the same TV Guide article that was linked on the last spoiler page. Snippets are scarier than the article as a whole. Also, remember this is a December interview, while they are sad about the final days of filming. More recent interviews have more measured quotes.

      • atcDave says:

        Yes its the story, I mean the interview, that I largely don’t care for. As I said, I don’t doubt the Bartowski’s will be fine in the end. I just hate that this is the sort of thing coming out. It’s what I’ve called negative energy or negative promotion. It does not make me want to watch. What I would rather be hearing about is Chuck and Sarah (or Team Bartowski) as the unlikely heroes and power couple that save the world. I dislike when they put the focus on the stability of the relationship; it just generates the wrong sort of excitement in my opinion. And I mean the wrong sort in the sense where if I were a casual viewer I would probably choose to skip it.

      • MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

        Good point about negative promotion. They probably thought it sounded “exciting.” Then again, a lot of people like reality TV because they like seeing other people more miserable than they are. Maybe those people will tune it.

      • atcDave says:

        ah yes, those who must watch the train wreck!

        I had hoped many occasional Chuck viewers would make the finale appointment viewing. I just don’t think this sort of “hype” will help much. I noticed at chucktv.net that Zach’s much more positive take on the finale was posted AFTER the TV Guide article.

        My expectation remains that most of the angst and tension will be in 5.12 or early 5.13; and hoping that’s what Yvonne’s more negative comments relate to. And I expect (hope!) that 5.13 will not only have a satisfying end but find time for some fun along the way.

      • thinkling says:

        I agree that the interviews coming out suck the fun out of the finale. I’m a little more worried than excited, even though, like Dave, I’m sure the Bartowski’s will be fine in the end. Fedak in particular seems to love negative promotion. But what worries me, is that this time I think there really is something negative to promote. I really hate the idea of destabilizing the relationship and rebuilding it in the finale … or any time, really. That’s just not the kind of drama I go for. I like Dave’s unlikely heroes and power couple that save the world.

        I usually blow off most of Fedak’s negative interviews (which means all of them), but when Yvonne is the one issuing the warnings, it scares me a little. Thank goodness for her reassurance of the “satisfactory ending.”

        They have a small needle to thread for me to want to rewatch an episode that involves the breakdown of the Chuck and Sarah relationship.

      • MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

        Let’s pull for definition 6a!

        break down
        1. To cause to collapse; destroy: break down a partition; broke down our resolve.
        2.a. To become or cause to become distressed or upset.
        b. To have a physical or mental collapse.
        3. To give up resistance; give way: prejudices that break down slowly.
        4. To fail to function; cease to be useful, effective, or operable: The elevator broke down.
        5. To render or become weak or ineffective: Opposition to the king’s rule gradually broke down his authority.
        6 a. To divide into or consider in parts; analyze.
        b. To be divisible; admit of analysis: The population breaks down into three main groups.
        7. To decompose or cause to decompose chemically.
        8. Electricity To undergo a breakdown.

    • esardi says:

      Jesus Army that just makes me sick, and now I know that even though she might not have said shocking, that is exactly what she was thinking. You could tell she did not like the ending of the show if you read between the lines.

      It is another confirmation why I HAVE NEVER TRUSTED FEDAK!! Just what does she do that puts their relationship in such jeopardy? Do not be surprise if the ending is less than satisfying.

      • atcDave says:

        They have all said satisfying Esardi. Yvonne has always been the least likely to play word games and even she said satisfying. So I do believe things will END well. But the ride may not be much fun for many of us, especially 5.12, I expect to be more of an ordeal than a pleasure.

      • esardi says:

        Dave I am sure of a satisfying ending. I just have a feeling it will be the last 5 minutes of a possible very damaging 5.12 and large part of 5.13 episodes.

      • atcDave says:

        Sounds like we’re on the same page!

      • ArmySFC says:

        just be glad it happens in one night. can you imagine the fallout from, “involves the very breakdown of the Chuck and Sarah relationship” if people had to wait a week for 13?

      • atcDave says:

        oh yeah army I’m very glad this is a one-nighter. I’m no fan of cliffies anyway. And I expect this Friday to be bad enough.

    • herder says:

      I’m beginning to get the idea that 5.12 is sort of a Beefcake to 5.13’s Leathal Weapon although my expectations are that vs Sarah won’t bother me as much as Beefcake did and that I’ll enjoy Goodbye more that I did Leathal Weapon ( and that is saying a lot). Are you still willing to have a Beefcake to get a Leathal Weapon?

      • MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

        I’m thinking of a penultimate episode in which Sarah betrayed her country, Morgan betrayed Chuck, Morgan betrayed Big Mike, Chuck and Sarah betrayed Casey, Sarah and Casey fought multiple times and pulled weapons on each other, Awesome and Casey fought, the Buy More and Castle came under attack, Chuck’s dad was almost sacrificed by the US government in an air strike, Ellie almost had a breakdown, Awesome did have a breakdown, and Charah left things undone and unresolved. The episode was Chuck vs the Colonel.

        Just because it sounds bad doesn’t mean it is bad.

      • esardi says:

        Jeff, Yvonne is not one to mess with the fans like that. In her follow up interviews she hinted the same thing. She has tone down her rhetoric, but you can tell she was not too thrilled with the upcoming episodes.

      • atcDave says:

        HaHa! I’m guessing Jeff might be a little tooooooo optimistic!

        We have seen a pretty common pattern here though (Colonel/Ring excluded) of the penultimate episode being darker and less fun, while the finale is more exciting and comes to a satisfying close. Beefcake/Lethal Weapon is probably the most extreme mismatch I can think of in a two-part arc (even if its not a finale); I do not like Beefcake, while Lethal Weapon is a favorite.
        But herder to answer the question, I’d likely be satisfied with a brutal episode for a good pay-off. Its hard to say absolutely, there are things that could be done that there would be no recovering from. But I still don’t expect that. I suspect even if 5.12 is a downer, that I’ll be pretty pleased with the end of 5.13.

      • thinkling says:

        I feel like Dave does. I can be satisfied with a satisfying ending, even with a darker lead in, but there are certain things they could do that would be hard to recover from.

        Jeff, Colonel was good, because in all that betraying going on there was one betrayal missing Chuck vs Sarah. Col was great because Sarah didn’t betray Chuck. If Sarah had betrayed Chuck, there would have been fewer betrayals, but the show would have been over.

        If it’s another Beefcake/Lethal Weapon, I’ll probably do what I do with those two … mostly only watch Lethal Weapon.

      • atcDave says:

        Yeah funny Thinkling; I think I’ve watched Beefcake maybe twice, and Lethal Weapon, well, a lot!

      • esardi says:

        I think a satisfying ending for me we be predicated on what happens in 5.12. If they go to places and make her do things that you would never forgive her for. Then no matter how satisfying the end is it will damage my view of the whole show.

        If Fedak thinks that he can damage the Sarah character under the guise of memory loss and think that a satisfying ending will satisfy these hard cord fans, he has misread us again. We will all know more after this episode. We will see what the promos show us. I am sure NBC does not care at this point and might be willing to give out more than it has to. At that point we will be able to speculate better. I can only hope that evil Sarah is all about capturing or kill Chuck. That I can deal with.

      • atcDave says:

        Yeah its funny Esardi but you’re exactly right about that. Evil Sarah who is mainly trying to undo Chuck is not THAT hard to swallow (still not what I want to see, but not horrible either as long as she gets “fixed”). It’s the thought of what they might have her do on a mission that’s more upsetting.
        But I still don’t think they’ll go there. My guess is Sarah’s big secret will have something to do with being under orders to undermine or kill Chuck at a certain point. That alone could be quite tense as Chuck would likely trust her even when he shouldn’t. So I could imagine some edge-of-the-seat sort of scenes waiting see if Chuck is going to notice his wife getting ready to plunge a knife into his back…

        I do wish they were doing something more fun for the finale.

      • jam says:

        “I think a satisfying ending for me we be predicated on what happens in 5.12. If they go to places and make her do things that you would never forgive her for. Then no matter how satisfying the end is it will damage my view of the whole show.”

        I agree. I don’t doubt that we get a positive ending for Chuck and Sarah, but unfortunately if they destroy the characters on the way there, I won’t be able to enjoy it. Particularly because there is so little (practically none at all) time to undo any potential damage they might do.

        That’s my main concern.

      • atcDave says:

        That’s my concern too Jam. As I’ve said, I don’t expect they’ll screw this up; but the possibility will make this a pretty long eight days!

      • Jason says:

        This really does not bother me even 1% of season 3. The show is over, somehow it doesn’t really matter any more, by and large fans were rewarded with an awesome run for the couple, this ending is for Fedak, not for us. He has resisted his primary tendency for a long time, and deserves some credit for delivering what he has for 2 1/2 seasons, and deserves some leeway to tell HIS ending.

        I probably won’t like it, but most of you guys and gals will, most of you have liked most everything he has done that is on the edge, except for season 3. I am the one who usually calls foul on the edgier stuff like the Mauser shooting, the contrivance of FOD, the stupidity of Sarah going away in Gobbler, or poisoning Sarah for drama in cliffhanger, or the beating Shaw gave Sarah in Santa. By and large most Chuck fans, even shippers, have been OK with this stuff and non shippers seem to love this kind of thing, so I think the ending will be fine for most.

        Plus, if the last 3 suck, just ignore them, just as I will ignore the first 12 of season 3 and several from s1 / s2 & s3’s end. Versus Baby makes a wonderful ending for the show. If I don’t like the last 3, I’ll just consider the last 5 hours followup movies, a good two hour movie with a cliffy, and a bad three hour movie.

      • thinkling says:

        Thanks, Jason. I needed that! 😉

      • Faith says:

        Wow this conversation is depressing. 😦

      • joe says:

        Don’t let it get you down, Faith. Between just you and me, nearly everyone is expressing their worst fears and at the same time, admitting that they expect things to end well.

        You know me by now, Faith. And I’ve been saying for years that I just want to feel something. If I get scared about the status of married couple Chuck&Sarah (my worst case scenario), I also know that, in this universe, it’ll be a deep, deep hole followed by a fantastic save at the end. I’d even bet that it happens early enough that we get to see one more amazing dinner party, or one more pillow-talk session, or one more scene at the fountain.

        I’d bet that we get to see all three, actually.

        And I’m certain about one more thing too. There’s going to be a song at the end that I will play for years. I’ll play it every time I want to think of Chuck and Sarah, the rest of the characters and every time I want to think about this blog.

        But don’t tell anyone else about that! 😉

      • MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

        Joe, I don’t think we needed this Last Spoiler Page – Pt. Deux. We needed the “Last collective freak out, overreaction, and panic page.”

      • ArmySFC says:

        jeff…so true. the one difference between this one and all the other freak outs is whats driving it. it’s not from spoilers or promos like in the past. its from what one of the two favorite actors has to say about the episode. TPTB have not proclaimed greatness or epicness over this episode or finale. in fact they have been really quiet except for the early comment they planned on doing something that would blow the fans minds.

      • Faith says:

        “Epic and stuff is coming”…all the spoilers are currently on an embargo until the last week for the finale. Hence the lack of reaction about the episode itself from the show runners and assorted personnel.

  12. dkd says:

    New preview for Bullet Train:

    http://www.hitfix.com/blogs/whats-alan-watching/posts/hitfix-first-look-on-chuck-morgan-helps-sarah-catch-a-bullet-train

    So, Ellie is involved right away and they are making the assumption that it’s the same type of Intersect that screwed up Morgan and his memories.

    • ArmySFC says:

      Jeff just for fun mind you but last week we were talking about what version she got. i said she got the one morgan got. seems like they agree, lol. my score’s looking good! although that wasn’t on the list, but i’ll take what i can get!

    • dkd says:

      Based on the clip, they certainly think she got Morgan’s version, but I wonder if they eventually find out that assumption isn’t correct?

      Based on the promo, Sarah is stricken with extreme pain after she flashes. Morgan never had any pain at all. The only way they knew something was going wrong was his change of personality and memory lapses. As far as we saw, his personality change and memory loss was gradual. When the season started, he already had the intersect for months.

      • ArmySFC says:

        my bad i am back at zero!

      • dkd says:

        Well, the writers may not be as logical as I am. They’ve been inconsistent before.

      • ArmySFC says:

        yeah i said she had his because morgan hid the glasses and that was the only intersect i knew was around at that time.

      • Ernie Davis says:

        I’ve actually got a theory, and remember, Fedak has said that everyone reacts differently, and different versions of the intersect have had different side effects.

        So say a genius with a strong moral center, like Chuck, gets intersect 2.0. He’s already shown that his brain tolerates the intersect’s presence better than most (though not all as far as we know). The toxic Fulcrum intersect doesn’t kill him, and he’s able to reboot the less toxic but still dangerous 2.0. He can control, or has learned to control the intersect. He won’t let it make him strangle Emmet for instance, whereas the Gretas will kill against direct orders if the 2.0 tells them to. While Ellie’s modifications have generally made the 2.x series more brain friendly the CIA’s insistence on “tweaking it” still leads to some problems for those other than Chuck (like the Gretas). Now take someone like Morgan. No filter. Period. Intersect basically gets what intersect wants for the most part, outside of one premature flash avoided by following Chuck’s advice. So the intersect takes up residence in Morgan’s brain and promptly starts re-arranging the furniture and tossing out the old comic books. Morgan is fine with it as long as he gets to be badass. Chuck was always very firm that it was a guest, to the point of perhaps shutting it off when conflicted about using it or when he wasn’t feeling quite in control of his own life enough to let himself be told what to do (self doubt actually helped).

        Now take an intermediate case, Sarah, who has a moral code more flexible than Chuck’s, and a less well developed sense of her own worth and morality, though she’s working on it. However she has little doubt about her actions in the field and doing what’s necessary. But with limits. She doesn’t kill in cold blood. Generally. Unless they deserve it. But her emotions and instincts, especially when it comes to Chuck, are likely to reinforce the intersect’s penchant for mayhem. GBS anyone? But she now has a stronger moral center and a desire to leave behind that part of her, so she fights the intersect’s influence in some ways while strengthening it in others. She gets torn up when she unleashes it because it wants to start tossing out family photos and take up permanent residence every time she flashes and she just wants it to help her kick ass.

        Or not. 😉

      • atcDave says:

        It will be interesting to see the exact consequences. I just hope it isn’t one of those things that’s so ugly I never want to watch again.

      • joe says:

        I like it, Ernie. I have a feeling that Sarah’s discipline (stronger than Chuck’s, and way stronger than Morgan’s) is part of what goes on too.

        The problem is that Sarah’s discipline can be used against her best interests, and against Chuck. Chuck would never let that happen if it harmed his family, friends or Sarah.

  13. jam says:

    Seems to be headed to the direction we assumed.

    • ArmySFC says:

      i think tomorrow will be a big clue on whats happening in the last 2.

    • dkd says:

      Cliffhanger!!

      • lappers84 says:

        The end of tomorrows episode is going to be agony until the finale two.

      • ArmySFC says:

        very true! could be the lead in as well. it’s a fine line i guess. last week was a cliffhanger cause chucks still captured where as baby was a lead in. to me anyway.

      • atcDave says:

        It is funny how Chuck being captured last week seems to be the least of everyone’s concerns! But we’ve all seen the previews with the team back together. I think Sarah being dragged off by Quinn at the end of Bullet Train will feel much more dire; knowing that she has a buggy Intersect, and we know something bad will come from it.

      • lappers84 says:

        She get’s captured by Quinn – buggy intersect screws with her brain – he sends her back to kill or undermine Chuck – Sarah will fight the team in some way – Chuck will eventually win and Sarah agrees to help – Throughout she will gradually begin to regain her memories (maybe with Ellie and Chucks help – de – intersecting???) – Final battle with Quinn (hopefully more revealed about his backstory.) – the team wins – everybody moves on and Chuck and Sarah are left to carry on their lives. Something like this maybe?

      • dkd says:

        Good point on how we have little concern for Chuck. But, we did see him looking well in the promo. It didn’t even look like he was beat up or anything.

      • jam says:

        “It is funny how Chuck being captured last week seems to be the least of everyone’s concerns!”

        It’s kinda funny, yeah… but I guess people always know he’s going to be physically OK. People are more worried about his emotional problems.

      • atcDave says:

        Lappers that’s exactly my guess for story outline! I’m sure we’re still missing many details. And likely some part of that outline will need to be revisited after we see 5.11; but for now that’s my best guess.

      • lappers84 says:

        So based on Zach’s take of the finale – 12 is full of drama and 13 is a little lighter. So it’s likely she will begin to remember by the end of 5×12. 5×13 she will continued to start rembering things whilst they are planning their final encounter with Quinn. So hopefully she will be pretty much recovered by the end. Or at least she remembers enough to actually tell him she love him.

      • Jason says:

        Lappers, if the end of the 12 ep is not the most brutal, ugly, nauseating thing ever done in Chuck, I will be shocked. Think the end of the other second last eps, then multiply by a hundred.

      • esardi says:

        Jason has a point. There is a reason why their relationship is in dire danger. She must do something that is quite awful or else that statement made by her was false. I am pretty sure that even though it was made at the end of shooting, she must have been very emotional to make such a statement.

        I am also speculating that this tension will continue on at least until the middle or three quarters of 5.13. That is why she said you do not know if they are going to make it. I am making a wild guess here but I bet that she will not snap out of it until the final show down with Quinn. Maybe I will be wrong, but I believe Fedak will milk this as long as possible.

      • ArmySFC says:

        esardi it dragging out till the end is what i have said all along so i’m with you on that.

  14. rac2873 says:

    Bummer city. I am so dreading 5.12 it is not even funny. My excitement for the last three episodes is pretty low. It’s strange I always rewatch Chuck but I just can’t motivate myself to do so after Bo. Sarahsect is just a jump the shark moment and one that Fedak couldn’t resist. Now the stuff hits the fan and I just don’t feel like watching the demise of Chuck and Sarah.

    Of course I am a Chuck fan so I will watch but excited I am not.

  15. rac2873 says:

    Faith tells me to trust the love so I am hanging on to that. 🙂

    • Faith says:

      haha yes. Same message to all the Chuck hopeful: trust the show, trust the love. If you can’t do both, then trust the love lol.

  16. lappers84 says:

    OK. We’re thinking that Sarah does something drastically bad in 5×12 that would test the Charah relationship. Any guesses???
    Also it’s been constantly stated throughout the season that all they need is each other – I reckon that will be the key point in the end. Their love for each other

    • armysfc says:

      same one i stated before. she was part of it from the beginning and tells chuck as much. she was sent by grahm to control him anyway possible. then she splits. (note i’m not saying it will make sense or why just i think it will happen)

      • lappers84 says:

        As crazy as that sounds Army that could be interesting. With her mind compromised – and assuming she has been captured by Quinn, perhaps he puts the idea into her head that she was only using Chuck (remembering his line at the end of Bo – “Do you think you can get someone like that without the intersect?” The guy obviously wants to ruin Chuck for the crap he (inadvertently) put him through, what better way to do that than to use his wife against him.

      • armysfc says:

        hehe, i think there has to be a reason they brought grahm back in baby. i’m betting that’s not a wasted scene just to do whatever it did for the episode. why else bring him back? it was to set the scene i predicted up.

      • Rac2873 says:

        I can see that. It would be very Quinn like to plant the seed that she was on a long term mission and that Chuck is not her real husband but the mark. She won’t remember Chuck so she won’t know otherwise. Perhaps she is convinced she was a double the whole time. Of course everybody but Sarah knows the truth.

      • atcDave says:

        I think that’s very likely army. Of course Chuck has his insecurities, but he will have to know its just the Intersect messing with her; so the trick will be to reach the real Sarah in spite of all the garbage. It will be interesting if they have to remove the Intersect first or if he can get through to her in spite of it.

      • lappers84 says:

        I can picture a scene in 5×12 where Quinn has Sarah captured but she doesn’t remember anything – including Chuck, so Quinn fills her in with false information, maybe claiming she works for him and that Chuck has been undermining him for years and he needs her to kill him or something. He sends her back – and Chuck confusing the situation at first is attacked by Sarah, whom he tries to talk to, but to no avail – the others turn up and she makes a cool matrix style exit (because she can) – Team B realise things are worse than they first thought and go off after Sarah – hoping she will lead them to Quinn. Sarah will start to remember some things but at first she ignores it – and continues plotting. Eventually they track down both Sarah and Quinn – Sarah once again tries to take out Chuck but before she can she might remember something from there first meeting. (maybe a flashback scene.) Then we kind of go from there. I don’t know – just random thoughts.

      • armysfc says:

        good one. now we just have to figure out where the brain melting intersect gets removed. from what they showed a flash knocks her on her ass.

  17. Shepperd of Lost Sheep says:

    Remember when the intersect was “important”? **sigh**

    • armysfc says:

      hehe, i bought a pair of intersect glasses from a vendor at broad and oregon. just the skills version, i don’t need all that data crap. that and it was cheaper.

  18. Jason says:

    If I were writing to maximize drama, here is what I would do. I’d have Ellie tell Chuck she found a way to save Sarah in the finale, but Chuck would have to permanently intersect & he might lose his memories. This would force the show full circle, straight back to Chuck intersecting to get him into all this mess in the pilot, Chuck will have to intersect in the finale and give up any chance of normal, as well as his memories.

    Morgan and Chuck will say a final ‘goodbye’ in the courtyard, as will Chuck to Ellie, and maybe even Chuck to Sarah, hence the title versus Goodbye. Chuck intersects, Sarah is 100% ok, and we go to the final commercial wondering Chuck’s fate? I expect the last scene to be Chuck remembering everything, on the beach.

    As a side note, does anyone think Sarah’s ‘secret’ could still be she is pregnant? As Ellie is working to frantically save Sarah, would that not amp up the drama, as Ellie discovers Sarah’s condition. Not only will Sarah likely die, but so would their baby?

    • atcDave says:

      I still think pregnancy is a possibility; but I think the most likely secret will be whatever garbage Quinn is feeding her. Something like believing its her mission to control or even kill Chuck.
      I hope they end with no Intersects, but if it comes back to them forced to live the life of heroes, well I wouldn’t be shocked or outraged.

      • lappers84 says:

        See my above post. Kind of have that same idea.

      • thinkling says:

        What if Quinn still thinks Chuck has the Intersect (be it his original or Shaw’s device)? Mind-wiped Sarah could be sent to retrieve the Intersect from Chuck (this plot sounds vaguely familiar).

      • lappers84 says:

        That’s a good point Thinkling, does he know that Chuck doesn’t have the intersect???

      • atcDave says:

        That is interesting. He surely will realize, probably tonight, that Sarah has an Intersect; but he may think Chuck has the ability to make more.

      • Jason says:

        The thing is to be really dramatic, at some point Chuck has to make a really hard choice when Chuck has to choose to give up everything to save the day. It would seem to intersect or not, with some consequences to his relationship with Sarah would be the most appropriate thing I can come up with. What most of the common specs are, the big bad puts chuck’s relationship with sarah in jeopardy, which I like less.

        I’m going to amend my last and second last scenes. The second last on the beach with one of the two not able to remember (hence the clue how can this work out up to the bitter end from Yvonne). Just as Chuck in the pilot on the beach was clueless, in the second last scene, one of them is clueless. We get a repeat of ‘don’t freak out’ and ‘trust me’ from one to the other, as well as a shoulder bump, it might seem that the show is over, as time is nearly gone. The last scene is only about 10 or 15 seconds (think the engagement scene in push mix). Chuck & Sarah are under the door of their home measuring their kids, the last thing we see is the carved wood, ‘Chuck and Sarah’.

  19. herder says:

    All this speculation about 5.12 & 13, very little attention paid to Bullet Train. I’ve seen this on two other occasions; season two everybody was fixated on Suburbs and no promo for Best Friend which turned out to be one of the season’s best. The other time was last month, everybody was keying on Santa Suit and there was little anticipation for The Curse which turned out to be one of the weaker efforts of the season. Which way do you see Bullet Train going?

    • thinkling says:

      I think Bullet Train will be filled with action, maybe some sweet Chuck and Sarah time, and comedy as Ellie probes Morgan’s brain. Then the Sarahsect drama will begin to build. I expect it to be a good episode, with undercurrents of tension.

      • lappers84 says:

        I agree, it’ll start out pretty light. But the last half will start getting pretty intense until the end when the crap hits the fan. And then we get the epic finale promo (ala season 3)

      • atcDave says:

        That’s pretty much what I was expecting too. It may be one of those episodes we have to give an incomplete score to until we see the finale.

      • esardi says:

        I agree with lapper. I think we will see Chuck being dragged away by Casey at the end of bullet train. The promo stated Casey had to make a tough decision. I am thinking that Sarah will be left behind. Then the beginning of 5.12 will be them gearing up to rescue her when she shows up. I am sure she will be claiming that she escaped.

        Chuck will buy hook line and sinker. Of course as the episode progresses we will see the changes in her and Sarah’s actions will become evident. I am thinking that the last half of 5.12 is when we will see things deteriorate dramatically. We will probably be left with our mouth open and wondering what the hell just happened by the end of 5.12.

      • lappers84 says:

        Yeah and the typical close up Chuck reaction as the screen goes black.

      • lappers84 says:

        And we’ll be like, “Meh, we saw it coming.”

      • dkd says:

        I’m seeing the episode a little differently. The first quarter is the set-up where Sarah and Casey leave for Japan after getting a lead. Morgan has to stay back and get tested by Ellie (preview scene).

        The middle 50% is the stuff on the train. That’s what most of the promo is.

        The last 25% is Sarah with Quinn and whatever happens to her. It’s also Chuck, Morgan, and Casey trying to rescue Sarah this time. There’s a microsecond shot of Morgan with a gun. So, he gets into the action at some point. Ellie and Awesome may, too.

        I also imagine that they may do one of those typical things on the train where Quinn and Sarah are in the last car, but it separates from the rest of the train and Chuck/Casey can’t get to them. That’s how Quinn escapes with Sarah.

      • esardi says:

        Yeah but in that promo Chuck is asking her not to flash and she is saying that she is trying. Then she flashes and she falls in agony. Something happens there that Chuck cannot get to her. I think that is where Casey drags away Chuck and Quinn is left with Sarah. Either way we will definitely see Sarah being hauled away by Quinn.

      • lappers84 says:

        The last part of the promo is a shot of Sarah looking like she’s about to pass out and Chuck and Casey looking at her – through a carriage window, so you’re probably right. Having said that how often have you ever seen clips in a promo that represent an ending to the episode – Aren’t most clips shown in the promos, from the middle sections of the episode – so maybe there’s something else?

      • MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

        Normally you’re right, lappers. The promo clips are usually from the first half. The Bo promo was an exception because it had Sarah’s “I’ve got this” line, which was from the last minute. That was a relatively safe spoiler until you realize with five minutes left that it hasn’t happened yet.

        USA network promos are horrible about giving away the ending. I’ve seen the last line of a show’s dialog in a promo several times.

      • lappers84 says:

        How about this for an ending – Chuck and Casey escape, but Quinn captures Sarah. Cut’s back to castle and the two of them telling the others what happened and they hatch a plan to try rescue Sarah – and as Esardi suggested Sarah could suddenly appear (kind of like Lethal Weapon when Cole comes back.) Everyone hugs and such and everything looks to be sorted, but Sarah walks away from the others and makes a phone call to Quinn telling him that they bought it, and Quinn will remind her of her mission (whatever it is.) And Sarah could reply like “I always complete my missions” or something, then the screen cuts out. Then everybody watching would be like “WTF JUST HAPPENED.” Then we get the epic finale promo.

      • atcDave says:

        Lappers I do expect a scene like that; but I’m thinking (hoping?) we won’t see that until next week. I say that only because I’m pretty sure 5.12 starts with Sarah on a separate mission. Of course, its entirely possible I have the timeline messed up, but I don’t expect the worst to hit until next week.

      • lappers84 says:

        It’s still very possible something like that can happen at the very end of this episode in order to lead in to the finale – The audience see there’s a problem but none of the other characters do just yet.

  20. mxpw says:

    Here’s a crazy idea: why don’t they just remove the Intersect from Sarah’s brain. Crazy, right?

    Considering how easy it is to remove the Intersect these days (at least five times in S4, and twice already this season), I’m not sure why Ellie and company aren’t trying to do this rather than see if they can minimize any deleterious side effects. Or if they’re unable to come up with a way to remove it themselves, why they aren’t having Beckman Fed-exing a removal device to them post haste.

    Unless the show is trying to get me to believe that after five years of fighting an endless stream of bad guys bent on world domination, Quinn is suddenly so uber-badass that Sarah keeping the Intersect is the only way to defeat him. I hope not, because that would just make me roll my eyes.

    • Katsumaro says:

      I was going to say perhaps it’d have adverse effects on her brain if they removed it while it ate away at her memories or whatever, but then I realize two things. One: The Chuck writers don’t think those things through, and two: as evident by said writers not thinking things through, they pretty much handwaved Morgan’s intersect issues.. for the most part.

      As for how it’ll end tonight, I dunno. I do find it odd that Quinn is suddenly the ‘biggest villain ever’, though I guess he has to be considering he’s the last of the series. I’m expecting him to have some connections to Family Bartowski outside of having the intersect swiped from under him by Bryce. There’s gotta be, or he’d just be some random guy.. I’m sure Sarah’s gonna get captured, fed some lies over the lost memories from the broken intersect, and that’s where Chuck vs Sarah will come in. I guess we’ll see, though!

    • ArmySFC says:

      mxpw…simple it doesn’t fit the story they want to tell! now to be real. my guess is before she shows signs of damage (it took morgan months) she and casey are already in route to save chuck. the effects happen while saving him. she then gets captured or goes willingly with quinn.

      kat…i think quinn is a one off villain. he’s the typical spoiled brat that didn’t get what he wanted and decides to get even. it is a common theme, they don’t take my work serious so i’ll show them, that type of nut job.

      • lappers84 says:

        Quinn does seem to be a very spoilt brat kind of character, but what makes him a big bad is the fact it seems he’s been working behind the scenes the entire time (Fulcrum, The Ring and VI) – Of course we don’t know how and hopefully that will be cleared up before it’s all over.

    • dkd says:

      They need Beckman to bring around the de-intersecting glasses. I’m sure in the context of the episode, Sarah wants to keep the intersect until she has rescued Chuck. She and Casey fly off to Japan as soon as they get a clue as to where Chuck is. We’ve seen how Sarah can be when her man needs rescued. Even if people are advising her to get the intersect out of her head ASAP, her first instinct would be to use everything at her disposal to get Chuck first. Her own welfare would be secondary.

      Ellie is just doing some proactive research just in case they can’t de-intersect Sarah before damage is done.

      • atcDave says:

        Makes sense to me. I can’t see Sarah waiting around to have the Intersect removed if she has a lead on where Chuck is.

      • MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

        That’s what I was thinking, dkd. Chuck isn’t around to keep Sarah in line. From the end of last episode, we know Casey didn’t want Sarah to use the glasses. He also just saw Sarah pole vault kicking and shooting buy guys while she is upside down in the air. If he thinks they have a few months, then why not use the Intersect? Casey knows if he goes up against Sarah without the Intersect, he’d end up kicked into a holding cell. I’m really interested in seeing his reaction to the new situation.

        The Intersect 2.0+ is not just a Matrix-like download of abilities and information. It is also a steroids-like power-up that makes agents faster and stronger. Chuck was stronger without any exercising. Shaw and the Greats were stronger and faster. I actually don’t like this part of the Intersect, but they have been consistent about it.

        Sarah might not need the Intersect on the Bullet Train, but she has it and would do anything to save Chuck. The ‘don’t-use-your-superpowers’ plot is something I’ve seen in Lois & Clark, Watchmen, and the Incredibles. Once they have a power, good luck convincing them to give it up when there is someone to be rescued.

  21. ArmySFC says:

    swfangirls tweeted this (sorry can’t figure out how to post the screen capture)…Exclusive interview with Fedak. He says it’s all about the emotion and *SPOILER: “we mess with those emotions in a big, huge, dramatic way ”

    *SPOILER** Fedak: “And the ending is so epic, especially in regards to the emotionally epic”. #chuck vs the bullet train

    • dkd says:

      Nothing new there.

    • lappers84 says:

      LOL. Epic. Is that the only word the guy knows???

      • ArmySFC says:

        i’m just waiting for one episode to live up to the hype. the last 10 minutes of push mix didn’t for me, good yes, epic or the best ten minutes of chuck ever done, nope.

      • MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

        For me, the best 10 minutes of Chuck ever will always be the Mr. Roboto scene. It had simultaneous action and comedy, made Bryce look like an idiot (1 gun, come on!), had Sam Kinison and an Indian lesbian singing, and introduced “minor centerpiece problem” as a euphemism for an activity in which Sarah would need to pull her ripped skirt down. I think the 10 minutes extends into the 2nd wedding.

        Other shorter moments were better, but that was the longest great moment for me.

      • ArmySFC says:

        jeff sorry, i mean one they hype up to be great. there have been great moments, just not the ones they claim will be that way. i happen to like the last minutes of ring.

      • atcDave says:

        hmmm, last scene of Honeymooners? The two wedding montages in Ring are right up there. The rehearsal dinner and wedding montages in Last Details and Cliffhanger? “Take off you watch…” Okay THAT’s the single greatest Chuck moment for me; but I still couldn’t really come up with a ten minute stretch; Ring (the weddings) probably comes closest.

      • atcDave says:

        I tend to not be into the very hyped episodes and moments. I love the action/adventure, story, and humor. But its the character moments and love for these characters that makes the show great for me. Big hyped finales don’t do so much for me.

      • MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

        I remember that 10 best minutes claim for Push Mix and scoffing at the time. I’m just reminiscing. It’s their job to hype. Personally, I enjoy movies and TV shows more if I lower my expectations going in.

      • MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

        Dave, Honeymooners is 42 minutes, so it’s too long for the 10 minute limit.

      • jam says:

        “Epic” is definitely used way too often.

        I didn’t mind the Push Mix hype, since it delivered in my opinion. The last 10 minutes could well be the best of the show.

        I really hope I have a new favorite after “Chuck vs the Good Bye”.

      • atcDave says:

        Ha! Yeah all of Honeymooners might be on my list; bit I really just meant that last scene. Probably the single most romantic thing I’ve ever seen on television.

      • Faith says:

        I agree with that Dave! My favorite scene of the entire series (so far?). Just beautiful.

      • thinkling says:

        I like all those, Dave. And I love the character moments most of all, too. I loved the end of Cliffhanger (Chuck parachuting in with the antidote, all the way through the wedding and limo); the entire rehearsal dinner; the end of Baby (from the time they cut to the apt until the end). Baby and Cliffhanger are both close to the 10 minute mark, and I can’t evenly get 10 minutes out of Push Mix without splitting scenes, so my 10 minutes are flexible.

        Then there are SO many 1 to 2 minute moments, that I can’t begin to list them.

      • joe says:

        The last scene of Honeymooners was right up there, but my #1 most romantic is still the motel in Barstow.

  22. Rac2873 says:

    http://t.co/gNZRkqX3 yvonne discussing the tragedy and chuck loses something.

    • jam says:

      Nothing new really, except her comment about babies being Season 6 (which will never come) material.

      No pregnant Sarah in the finale, I guess.

    • atcDave says:

      Nothing really new there, but some good take aways anyway. For starters, she talks about a baby story “if there had been a season six”. So we can guess that will not come up for the finale, also indicates to me Chuck and Sarah are indeed standing, together, and happy about it at the end of Goodbye. Add to that, her statement that they would all love to do a movie if the opportunity came up; again indicates to me Chuck and Sarah are both intact at the end. I suppose it doesn’t rule out someone else being killed off, but as I’ve long said; Chuck and Sarah alive and together is my irreducible minimum and sounds like that is pretty secure.

      I’m glad we’re getting the two part finale; but that interview really makes me think how much I’m going to miss this show.

      • esardi says:

        Dave that will all depend. I know that you have heard about Farscape. Well I was a huge fan of that series. I could not believe it when NBC pulled the plug. Then again they pulled the plug on a lot of excellent shows when they bought the sci-fi channel like SG-1. They replaced those shows with wrestling! And you guys wonder why just about everything on NBC sucks. (LOL)

        However, I digress from my point. They ended the show so horribly that they were forced to do a mini 3 part series to correct their mistake. Therefore, do not think that because Yvonne would be up for a movie and if there was a season 6 they would be talking babies that all will be rosy. I like everyone here expects it to be satisfying. However, one person’s version of satisfying, my be seen quite different by someone else.

      • ArmySFC says:

        esardi i think your right about what people will consider a satisfying ending.

      • atcDave says:

        I expect good things from this finale and to be satisfied. Farscape was a different circumstance. It is true some would be satisfied with a Romeo and Juliet tragedy, but I don’t believe that is typical. We’ve heard enough good things from enough different people; even if they are a little guarded and warning about some rough stuff too, but I believe the ending will make most of us very happy.

      • MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

        esardi, I love blaming Sci-Fi Channel for cancelling Farscape. It was actually vivendi at the time, not NBC. Here’s the full story: http://watchfarscape.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=93&Itemid=25
        Some of it parallels Chuck in that Sci-Fi was recently purchased, like NBC was recently purchased. It’s actually worse than Chuck because the new ownership broke a promise of a two season renewal after a cliffhanger was filmed. It also shows how it is possible to lie with ratings statistics. That write-up doesn’t focus on it, but I think part of it was because the Jim Henson Company was under different ownership 2000-2003, and the parent company was having financial trouble in 2002 when the cancellation went down. When the Henson family reclaimed the company in 2003, Brian Henson helped make the Farscape miniseries happen.

        SG-1 was winding down anyway. A large portion of why SGU and more Stargate movies were cancelled was because of MGM’s bankruptcy. The rest was SyFy stupidity: http://www.gateworld.net/news/2011/05/stargate-producer-responds-to-syfys-arguments-for-sgu-cancellation/

      • esardi says:

        Thanks for the info Jeff.

      • thinkling says:

        Like I said at the end of my Bo recap/review, “I believe in Chuck and Sarah. I believe in their journey. I believe in their future. And I believe in their love.” Here’s the deal. Schwedak also believe in those things. They’ve said many times that CS are the heart of the show, that it’s been about their love story … something Yvonne said would be a focus. Then there’s the journey. This isn’t a tragedy. There may be some tragic elements in this arc, but Chuck has never been a tragedy. Schwedak have always characterized it as a journey. It would make zero sense in a journey/growth story to derail the journey 5 miles from the destination. I expect a completed journey with a side of victory and a clear path to a free and happy future (i.e. no CIA and no bad guys).

        Right now I’m gonna go with trusting them to tell me a good story, albeit extremely emotional.

      • atcDave says:

        Well put Thinkling. As I’ve been saying all week. These big finale arcs are often not my favorite stories, but they have all ended well. And I do trust them on that.

      • BigKev67 says:

        Exactly, Thinkling. You’re a voice of reason amongst some of the doom mongering and hysteria that’s been around the last couple of weeks 🙂
        I do tend to enjoy the final arcs. I like the roller coaster. I like the heightened emotions (both good and bad). I love the twists. Colonel/Ring and Subway/Ring 2 were both fantastic pairs. Last details/Cliffhanger wasn’t up to that standard as a finale so I hope they improve on that.
        I’m expecting them to take the story right to the edge, as they always do in the final arc, and then bring it back to a happy place. Nothing I’ve read leads me to believe any different. Bring it on, I say…..

  23. lappers84 says:

    OK that promo for the finale – if you take it bit a time, how much is in there. Sarah fighting Chuck in there house??? Beckman appearance, Casey hugging Chuck, Sarah grabbing Morgan at gunpoint to what looks like an intersect room, Mary pulling a gun on Sarah and her telling Mary “You took my memories.” OK that could be misleading. Ellie in a car crash?? and Chuck chewing her out. WHAT THE HELL IS GOING TO HAPPEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  24. MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

    esardi: https://chuckthisblog.wordpress.com/2012/01/20/5-11-chuck-vs-the-bullet-train-first-reactions-thread/#comment-62090

    I brought this over here because I was going to talk about spoilers.

    A lot of things don’t line up between the promo and the synopsis. The synopsis says Sarah returns to Chuck. The promo shows them fighting (in the house?), Sarah ambushing Morgan in the Intersect room, a rooftop scene, and Chuck and Sarah dancing. It also shows Mary pointing a gun on Sarah in Castle. The Wienerlicious is from Goodbye, and I assume some of the other scenes are too.

    My best guess is Sarah “escapes”. Chuck has no reason not to trust her. They decide to destroy the Intersect, maybe because of something Sarah “overheard.” She turns on them. There’s fighting in multiple locations. She has flashes of memories. Chuck convinces Sarah that Quinn is the real enemy–end part 1. She still doesn’t have all of her memories throughout Goodbye, but they work together to bring down Quinn. That would include the dancing, the Wienerlicious, and Mary with the gun (because she still doesn’t trust Sarah). By the end, Sarah has her “good” memories back. At this point I wouldn’t place a bet on if they go out as happy spies, or happy couple in a house, or both.

    Considering the glasses that say activate, I also wouldn’t bet on if Chuck downloads the Intersect, if he reprograms it to fix Sarah, or he destroys it. Chuck might use the Intersect to transfer his memories of Charah to Sarah (although pulling out memories and storing them has not been done in the show.)

    Casey’s decision is about Verbanski. The Woodcombs get an offer to be CIA scientists. I don’t know how Ellie’s stunt driving fits in.

    All of this is a guess. I honestly have no idea how all of that is supposed to fit together. It’s probably even more complicated than I’m making in out to be. I’m looking forward to finding out.

    • lappers84 says:

      I would love if Mama Bs appaearance isn’t just so she’s there in the finale – maybe she knows more about Quinn?? Maybe she can shed light on things??

    • jam says:

      “A lot of things don’t line up between the promo and the synopsis. The synopsis says Sarah returns to Chuck.”

      I think Sarah seeks out Chuck in order to kill him, the killing part is the secret mentioned in the synopsis. Chuck is unaware of this and thinks she has merely lost her memories.

      As for Ellie and Awesome, looking at them in this episode I begun to think that maybe they get an offer to work on the intersect project.

    • ArmySFC says:

      maybe this will help. mary, WL and dancing are from 13. there is a mission(?) in berlin with dancing that was filmed the last week. the twit pic of the WL was taken during that week as well. LH only signed for 13 (unless it was held secret that shes in 12 also).

      i think the others are from 12 (not sure on the roof top deal could be in either, my bet 13).

      contrary to what others think i believe 12 will be team B trying to get to sarah. not find her per say but convince her that she works with them. not much of the memory stuff happens until 13.

      i know they portray chuck as an idiot sometimes, but there is no way he won’t know something is wrong. unless quinn feeds her, her life with chuck as a mission prep thing, but still he’d would notice something was off.

    • dkd says:

      I don’t think anything in the promo shows the early part of the next episode when Sarah actually returns. It’s all after that. My micro-analysis of the promo with help from following twitter closely during the filming of the episodes tells me the following:

      Promo scenes from “Chuck vs. Sarah”:
      –Scenes in intersect room
      –fight between Chuck and Sarah (duh)
      –Ellie crashing the car
      Promo scenes from “Goodbye”:
      –Mama B(unless at tail end of previous ep)
      –dance scene
      –concert hall scenes
      –helicopter scene
      –wienerlicious fight/Chuck pointing gun

      Scenes I’m not sure about:
      –Chuck looking at the activating glasses
      –Casey hugging Chuck
      –the “You love me” scene
      –Sarah confronting someone (Quinn?) saying “You stole my memories.”

      • ArmySFC says:

        i put the sarah confronting someone with sarah pounds on chuck. the brown walls seem to match in both scenes and there is molding on the ceiling.

        other than that i’m right with you.

      • Katsumaro says:

        I talked about this earlier on twitter, but the way I see it.. I’m thinking the bit with Sarah, Chuck, and Morgan in the intersect room will be early in 5.12 when Sarah comes back to the group and maybe they’re going to get the ‘pristine’ intersect before Quinn gets there, and Chuck thinking everything’s okay.. gets jumped by Sarah holding Morgan hostage. Then later on, I’m thinking, within the same episode.. Chuck’s going to somehow get Sarah back to the ‘dream home’ (that’s where they are in the ‘you really love me’ scene, and maybe a memory will get triggered somehow by her being there.. after she beats the crap out of Chuck that is.

        I’m thinking the Mama B scene may also be apart of vs Sarah.. maybe it’s after her memories slowly start to come back and Mama B’s still not sure. The dance scene/concert hall, helicopter, and winerlicious fight are probably Goodbye.

        As for the other bits.. I have no clue about the glasses or the bit with Casey hugging Chuck, but I do think the “You love me” scene is vs Sarah, and then Sarah confronting someone is either near the end of vs Sarah or the start of Goodbye.

        That’s my thoughts, anyway. I really hope that Chuck’s able to trigger something from their dream home, though. Maybe the picture, or the bit where they carved their names into the door. That’d be sweet.

      • dkd says:

        “i put the sarah confronting someone with sarah pounds on chuck. the brown walls seem to match in both scenes and there is molding on the ceiling.”

        She’s wearing something different, though. When she’s beating on Chuck she is wearing a maroon sweater. Whe she confronts someone about taking her memories, she’s wearing black.

      • Katsumaro says:

        Yeah, I think the scenes that match up is Sarah pounding on Chuck to Sarah asking if Chuck really did love her. She seems to be wearing the same thing there.

      • Jason says:

        Sarah is dressed more like Sarah Bartowski in the scene where Casey is hugging Chuck. I honestly have no way of knowing, but that might be toward the end of goodbye.

        Does everyone think Sarah is in the reality of present with Quinn’s plan, i.e. married to Chuck, or in the reality of 5 years back, i.e. an assassin. If the later, might the plot play out so simple as Sarah confronts chuck in his apartment to kill him, and Chuck does not fight back, hence the scene ‘you love me???’ which might be something Chuck would say to her while she is trying to kill him, fight back she says to him, Sarah, I am not going to fight you, I love you, which causes Sarah to stop, even though she has no clue who she is or where she is or who he is relative to her.

        Might be that Quinn redoes Sarah’s mission, to steal the intersect in trade for her memories at that point, which would make the Mama B confrontation when she says he stole my memories. Sarah would have to keep that one secret from Chuck, especially if she is hazy at this point. Mama B might even put the gun to SAarh after Sarah steals the intersect from Morgan and Chuck, to explain why she stole the intersect.

        That is a start of my thinking, you guys and gals are better at this than I, love to read the guesses though.

      • ArmySFC says:

        Dkd sorry maybe my colors off but i have black in both (one arm appears to be reddish i suppose) and red with chuck and . its hard to stop it at the same place, lol.

      • ArmySFC says:

        TBH i’m not trying for a timeline just the episodes they appear in. if they are in order then the do you really love me comes near the end.

    • atcDave says:

      Excellent spec Jeff, I like it. It does seem likely though that Chuck and Sarah will be violently at odds in 5.12. I’m not sure if their reunion will start violent and then involve a lengthy “talking down” process or or if it will take longer for the physical confrontation to unfold. I suspect the latter, but that does, as you mentioned, make it very hard to figure how Sarah will be re-introduced to her team; perhaps it will be as simple a cover as “I escaped but I can’t remember anything”. So far, Quinn has pretty simply ordered Sarah to kill, which would suggest a more violent initiial meeting. Perhaps Sarah will get a more involved mission brief at the start of 5.12; perhaps Quinn still wants some particular service or piece of info from Chuck before Sarah kills him, leading to a later confrontation?

      • Katsumaro says:

        Sarah was a pretty decent agent I’m guessing before she joined Team Bartowski.. so maybe she’ll do her own bit of research before ‘moving in for the kill’ or whatever. Then again, maybe she’ll just slip back in with the generic ‘I escaped, but I can’t remember anything’.. and go from there. It does seem odd that she’d be involved with a mission as soon as she got back.. if that’s what’s going on with the intersect room thing, but then again.. stranger things have happened. That’s probably when she’ll spring the trap of sorts, and force Chuck to get the intersect out while she holds Morgan hostage.

      • thinkling says:

        There’s one thing really bugging me about this (aside from the whole thing, that is –jk, this just wouldn’t be my first line of thinking for the finale, but I’m all on board — honest) … and that is that in the pilot, Sarah was originally sent to find Chuck, with the idea that he was a bad guy in league with rogue spies. She figured out within minutes that he was a good guy, not a bad guy. From there she was basically on his side. I can’t imagine she would have followed through on a kill order on him even at that point. She didn’t even want to bunker him.

        Now, they want to convince me that she will come back and not have any of her ability to read people or figure things out? I suppose they’ll pass it off as some sort of brain washing, but I’m having extreme difficulty swallowing that Sarah, any Sarah, would just shoot someone who isn’t a bad guy, and I can’t imagine her being with Chuck for a day and not beginning to figure things out on her own.

      • MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

        In the last two episodes, I think Sarah will be suspicious Quinn’s story is wrong, but with Chuck acting like a spy, breaking into government facilities (assuming that is Chuck’s plan, not Sarah’s), she won’t be getting a clear picture. She might be taking the Trust No One approach. In the pilot, the ballerina helped.

      • atcDave says:

        Yeah I think Jeff is hitting on a big part of it. Five years later Chuck does often act like a spy, which may make it a little harder for Sarah to tell. But in the end who Sarah is will be a big part of Quinn’s undoing, she isn’t one to arbitrarily kill. If she is, well this whole finale may be too contrived to hold up.

      • Katsumaro says:

        That’s what I was thinking. She was a good agent before she met Chuck Bartowski or any of his family.. what really changes that now other than her memories being suppressed of pretty much whatever she’s done over the past five years? Past details should dictate her realizing Chuck Bartowski isn’t a ‘rogue spy’ or a bad guy out to steal the intersect, but given how Chuck’s changed from when he just worked at the Buy More.. maybe that’s just the tick to leave that door open for her to think he’s bad.

      • atcDave says:

        I guess I’d add to that, in the Pilot Sarah was dealing with a known unknown; that is, she knew she didn’t know what Chuck’s role in things was. If Quinn preps her with a good amount of background she may feel she has most of the answers before she even “meets” Chuck. But again, I think she’ll have questions about her “mission” pretty quickly.

  25. joe says:

    Great specs, all.

    I just realized that Chuck has had to fight “the Intersect” (Shaw), but did so with an Intersect in his head. He faced the Morgansect without one in his head, but at least he could fight back (and did). How the heck will he fight the Intersect in Sarah’s head, when he couldn’t even bring himself to “hit a girl”, ever?

    Sarah’s going to pound him. Unless…

    My uninformed spec. is that she’ll be stopped from ever landing a blow on Chuck by someone. I’m guessing that someone will be Sarah Lisa Bartowski.

    • atcDave says:

      Yeah Joe that’s exactly what I want to see. Although my guess is she’ll actually rough him up a little before some part of Sarah breaks from the program.

    • MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

      This is sounding like Superman 3.

    • lappers84 says:

      But again didn’t Quinn suppress Sarah’s intersect at the end of the episode? (along with her memories) So it would be regular spy Sarah – doing the beating.

      • ArmySFC says:

        true, but Joe did say, “My uninformed spec.”

      • atcDave says:

        Yeah I’m not really very interested in the Intersect except as a plot device. The program I meant was what Quinn did to her at the end of 5.11. THAT’s what we need to see Sarah break free of. Whether the Intersect is involved or not I don’t know. But I think Chuck/Sarah should be able to overcome Quinn’s programming essential through their love for each other. I expect, once Chuck knows she’s been programmed, that he will do whatever he can to break her from it; while Sarah will naturally cling to her new reality at first, but at some point will realize Chuck speaks the truth. THAT’s the scene I want see!

        But yeah I think Sarah can be a threat to Chuck without the Intersect.

      • thinkling says:

        Yeah, Quinn said that the Intersect in her head was rotten and that he was going to remove it, after which she would work for him.

    • esardi says:

      I do not think that Chuck would try to fight Sarah. Chuck would try to reason with her. Tell her he loves her and if things go south tell her he forgives her because she lost her memory. I just do not see Chuck fighting back. Hopefully that will send a red flag to Sarah that something is wrong.

  26. FlamesofDestiny (someone had to use it...) says:

    The most LOGICAL approach to 5.12 is this: Quinn essentially turns Sarah into Bryce, i.e., he convinces her that she has to steal the intersect to protect it from the real bad guys (who, in this scenario, are Team Bartowski). He sends her in undercover back to Chuck and crew with the claim that she was working undercover on them already before her head injury.

    It sort of has to play out like that because there are a zillion things logically that Chuck could do to convince Sarah that Quinn is the bad guy. If nothing else, Chuck could produce Sarah’s spy will and say “Well, if I’m the bad guy, why did you give me your spy will?”

    So logic (and good writing) dictate that Sarah is going in believing that she’s playing along with the married/Carmichael Industries thing so as not to blow her cover. She convinces the team to go destroy the Intersect while, of couse, she is really planning to steal it for Quinn.

    This sceario also sets up the one clip we saw where Sarah says: “You REALLY love me?” to Chuck. At some point, they have to turn the story so that Sarah sees the “cover” is actually real and you work through 5.13 and the finale with Chuck trying to restore the status quo as they hunt down Quinn together.

    I think the show now ends in one of two ways:
    1) Chuck and Sarah, now both intersected, leave to be safe and keep their family safe.
    2) The beach scene is flipped and it’s Sarah who asks Chuck, “what are you gonna do with me” and Chuck answers “Trust me…”

    • ArmySFC says:

      really like that one. makes all my specs true. the one i would amend is 1. i think sarah’s is done, but chuck keeps his to protect her and the family. (her brain did rot) although you could combine the two into one so you may be right on both. 2 happens first then it flows into 1.

    • Aerox says:

      Exactly. And that’s part of the reason that I really don’t like the way this is heading. The amount of things that Chuck can pull up to prove to her that she’s really married to him, outside of the cover is ludicrous. Hell, since Emma lives like 20 mins away, they can just take a drive to her mother.

    • MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

      Aerox, I don’t like the idea of all of Army’s specs being true either. Wait. You probably didn’t mean it like that. 😉

      You’re right that Chuck has all sorts of ways to convince her. In typical fashion of a spy-thriller, not all of them will be conveniently available in the middle of a mission.

      My guess would be Sarah thinks it’s a cover, but Chuck doesn’t know that until they’re in the middle of a mission and she turns on him. It’d be harder to convince her at gunpoint. If Sarah is acting brain-washed, he’d never put Emma or Molly at risk. Knowing that secret might make Sarah trust him less. Maybe they go to the house with the Sarah+Chuck. (She never wanted to forget that moment). Someone said the drawing will probably factor in, and I agree. (She said she’d never forget that.)

      • ArmySFC says:

        Easy there Jeff!. remember i just predicted events would happen, not gloom and doom. so far quite a few are correct. i said sarah would not be with chuck at the end of bullet train she’s not, her secret would be she has to kill chuck that’s her mission, manchurian candidate/intersect she’s been reprogrammed, she gets in physical combat with chuck (promo), she will join the CIA (in her mind she is right?). like it or not i’m on a roll.

      • lappers84 says:

        As soon as I saw that drawing, and basically knowing what was coming – I instantly said to myself “That picture is going to be key.” – especially after Chuck showed her after she admitted to not remembering Alex.

      • MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

        I’m just kidding, Army. Actually I’m fine with your specs, and you are definitely on a roll. I’m just not looking forward to how insufferable you would be. You’d be fully justified to be that way, though.

      • ArmySFC says:

        Jeff… i’m just glad i’m doing that well! some are looking real iffy now however.

      • Aerox says:

        I think I deleted about 3 posts where among my ranting and raving, I was convinced that the drawing would be the catalyst. The rest was me basically bitching and moaning about the way they’ve gone with this arc. God, it’s SO bad hahaha.

      • ArmySFC says:

        i think thats a common thought. this amnesia bit is not the way most fans wanted it to go.

      • thinkling says:

        Here’s my take on the arc. I agree with Yvonne that it’s very bold. I think it’s kind of intriguing,too. But it is tragic. (The end of Bullet Train is the most intense, heart wrenching stuff we’ve ever seen, imo.) However, it’s not what I would choose as the final arc of the series. I’d rather have a little padding at the end, if not another arc, at least an extra episode for Chuck and Sarah and Co to bring down the big conspiracy, which I’m not certain will be given its due, if it even still exists.

        I can imagine walking away thinking it was very satisfying or sadly lacking. It depends on 3 things. First, the ending. Second, the way it’s handled and balanced. It’s so emotional, that I hope there’s some balance, even in 5.12, and I hope that when the breakthrough (Chuck getting through to Sarah) comes it is indeed adequate payoff for the emotional upheaval that proceeded it. Three, the pacing. My ideal would be for Chuck to break through to Sarah at the end of 5.12. Then Chuck and Sarah would be on the same page most of the way through 5.13, with her memories mostly returned (and catching up), and we’d have adequate time at the end (9-10 minutes) for family and goodbye’s and some great Chuck and Sarah time. If it went down like that, I might think it was kind of brilliant. Granted they can write it however they want. I’m just saying what I would find most satisfying.

        I’m pretty confident of #1. The Lejudkins writing team gives me hope for #2. It’s the pacing I’m probably most concerned about.

      • esardi says:

        Thinkly, don’t you think that if she does something pretty awful in 5.12, she might feel the need to leave because of what she did? Could that be what might be in store for us and it gets resolved at the end? God, I hope they do not go there but I keep thinking back to what Yvonne said about the Chuck and Sarah relationship and I am wondering if they are going to pull something like this.

      • thinkling says:

        Esardi, my take on what Yvonne said about a complete breakdown of the Chuck and Sarah relationship has already happened. Sarah’s memories are wiped, so there is no more relationship. It’s gone … can’t be more broken down than it is right now. The nice thing is (if there can be a nice thing) that it’s not Chuck or Sarah’s fault … it’s Quinn’s. That makes coming back from it easier once Chuck gets through to her. We know she has orders to kill Chuck, but he’ll get through to her and that won’t happen. I think that part will work itself out, even though there will be a lot of emotion and tension and tears.

        So, no, I think once Chuck gets through to her, things turn around for the better.

      • armysfc says:

        Thinkling i’m not sure about that. neither of them knows yet so they have yet to find out. they don’t know the relationship is broke down. chuck wont know till next week. the other thing is, she was referring to the finale not what happens before. this is where i get confused about events based on her comments. she has said when i got the script for the finale… is she counting the finale as in vs the goodbye or the finale as vs sarah vs goodbye? if it’s the former then it happens in the last hour. if its the latter it happens in the first.

      • atcDave says:

        I think the best information we have is that the relationship will start at near zero near the beginning of 5.13; and that episode will be about its rebirth. Yvonne said 5.13 was all about the relationship, sentiments Zach and Cf have mirrored.

      • armysfc says:

        Dave this is the quote i was referring to above, it’s from tv guide

        It doesn’t help that the finale itself is packed with trauma and heartache. “It involves the very breakdown of the Chuck and Sarah relationship,” reveals Strahovski. “It’s just awful because they’ve become such a fun, loving, ‘Mr. and Mrs. Smith’-type couple. The last episode very much asks: Will they or won’t they make it?”

        hence my question of what she and they consider the finale. if they weren’t on the same night the finale would be goodbye. they did tweet the completion of each episode and they filmed each one separate. so is she grouping them together or is she referring to the final episode?

      • esardi says:

        Dave that is what I am worry about. How will 5.12 end? Will it be that she steals the intersect for Quinn and Chuck barely escapes? That would be the worst case scenario because that means she is coming back to kill Chuck in 5.13. If she comes back earlier and by the end of 5.12 Chuck at least has talked her out of completing her mission that would then give us an entire episode to get back to normal while finishing the ordeal with Quinn.

        I just have a feeling that it will be Sarah returning the intersect to Quinn and Quinn giving her instructions to finish the job. I hope I am wrong but that is what I am assuming. Thinkling is right that the relationship is finished as of this moment because she no longer remembers him. However, Army is correct that Chuck is not aware it is over.

        Chuck may not be aware it is over until the very end of 5.12. I am sure the shock of Sarah attacking him and almost killing him while stealing the intersect for Quinn, will be the low point of the episode and this season. However, that said if they do not rush the resurrection of Sarah while taking on Quinn it will probably end well.

      • armysfc says:

        Esardi, i agree. the problem i see if they play it that way (i feel the same BTW) they will have to rush her along to get her where they want by the end, plus allow time for the goodbyes. they won’t be able to do it slow.

        part of the problem i have with this arc is the timing. it’s to late and doesn’t leave enough time for a real good ending. starting it one episode early would have worked better. drop one of the stand alone episodes. my gut tells me it will end well but leave people feeling like they did after the other guy. most people agree it was the next episode honeymooners that began to heal the mess of s3. add an episode like that after goodbye and even i would say it was a good year.

        i’m not into the whole shipping thing, but even i will feel slighted if that’s how it ends.

      • atcDave says:

        I think “over” is a poor word choice. It is not over. And I guess none of those concerns really worry me. Sarah has been brain-washed/manipulated and is not fully aware at present. Chuck also may not know the true state of things. I would also say the “break down” phrase from the tv guide interview is just a quote from an interview and probably shouldn’t be taken so seriously or literally. It is merely an impression of a transitory state that will be quickly rectified. No matter how bad things seem in 5.12, it is temporary situation caused by Sarah’s suppressed memories and Chuck’s unawareness of Sarah’s problems. Whether we get a breakthrough late in 5.12 or early in 5.13, and no matter what dark deeds have transpired, the relationship will mend over the course of the remaining episode. It may be mostly fun, or it may be pretty tense; but it will happen.

        I’m sorry it just seems like we’re trying WAY to hard to divine meaning from tiny scraps of possibly misleading information (jumbled preview and an off-the-cuff interview). There’s too much worrying about small details here for me.

      • atcDave says:

        Army it already can’t be like Other Guy. Other Guy came after twelve episodes of downbeats, and gave us peace of mind only in the last minute.

        This season we have been blessed with many fun moments and hope. Some episodes ending with particularly beautiful scenes (Baby!). I do agree it is a bit rude of them if the ending is rushed without that sense of peace and accomplishment Chuck and Sarah have strove for all season. But we don’t even know if that will be an issue yet; and it won’t be as bad as Other Guy even if they do rush it. BTW, Other Guy makes many viewers top ten list. It was a very good episode. It only suffers because of the twelve downers leading up to it. If Goodbye accomplishes a similar end, it will FEEL better simply because the downbeat was MUCH sorter.

      • MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

        The season 3 extension was announced Oct 28, 2009. Other Guy was not even filmed until 2010. We will never know what the ending of Other Guy would have been like if it was the real series finale.

      • armysfc says:

        Dave, let me ask you a question just for fun, because as a non shipper i don’t care if they stay together or not. if the statements that were released were glowing, all fluffy, hinting at babies, houses, she said it was just how i wished it would end and such would still say, “I’m sorry it just seems like we’re trying WAY to hard to divine meaning from tiny scraps of possibly misleading information (jumbled preview and an off-the-cuff interview). There’s too much worrying about small details here for me.” or would you be excited?

        i’ll be honest on my take for the ending. these last 2 will most likely take place over a couple of days to a month tops. i will be disappointed if she does get all or most of her memories back by the end. morgan has been missing memories for a long time and he was not as bad off as she will be. to have her suddenly regain them that quickly screams bad story telling. it goes against what we have been shown. it’s not because i don’t want to see them together, it’s because i want to see a story that makes sense. if morgan still doesn’t have his back and its been months, it should take her just as long or longer to get hers back. most he never has gotten back. anything short of that will seem like a hand wave.

        they painted themselves into a corner with this. they can’t not have it resolved because of the backlash. not for the ratings but for personal pride. who wants to end a series running from torches and pitch forks?

      • armysfc says:

        Dave Jeff…sorry not specific enough. scale it down and it will be similar to me anyway. so your right it’s not the same and can’t be, it’s more the idea that it’s rushed. in s3 for 12 eps it was nothing then bam their together. can’t really explain it better so maybe that helped.

      • MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

        What memories does Morgan not have back? He has said he lost memories. That doesn’t mean he still doesn’t have them. (e.g. I lost my keys, but found them eventually.) I’m not sure they have said one way or the other. He seemed to recognize Bo Derek. His only confirmed lost memories were from the 24 hr window in Veil, due to the X-13 gas. Even the X-13 isn’t perfect. He regained some of that from talking to Bo and Big Mike.

      • armysfc says:

        Jeff in Bo he didn’t remember much of what happened at all in vail. he just began to have the memories and that was after seeing the phone.

      • MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

        As I said above, “His only confirmed lost memories were from the 24 hr window in Veil, due to the X-13 gas.”

      • armysfc says:

        Jeff sorry i know you like me to be specific. chucktv does a good job.

        Morgan is wearing a white women’s coat, is clearly inebriated, and is stumbling through the snow jabbering about a pair of Intersect glasses that someone had that he retrieved and put “in a vault”. Unfortunately, Morgan has no memory of the incident and has no idea when or where he made the video. They search through photos and texts on the phone and determine that Morgan was somewhere there was skiing and that he was texting with a person named “BD”. They text BD to reestablish contact.

        he doesn’t know who BD is, doesn’t remember he rocked her world or where he hid the glasses.

      • armysfc says:

        Jeff sorry they crossed. also the movies. and at the beginning of this ep ellie says sarah has the same version of the intersect that made you lose memories and chuck later says that computer erased morgans memory. …. that’s enough conformation for me.

      • MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

        “chucktv does a good job.”
        I like chucktv.net too, but I’m not sure what that has to do with anything. I’m not reading their forums, if that’s what you are referring to.

        You’ve provided an accurate recounting of the details, but nothing in what you recounted means the faulty Intersect caused him to forget. Jeff used for forget things all of the time, and he never had the Intersect.

        Morgan did not say where the glasses were in the video because he was on the run. If he was captured, the video would reveal the location. Even Morgan is not that much of an idiot, most of the time. He was recording a video to send to Chuck, but never got around to mentioning BD or hitting send because he tripped and fell unconscious. As seen with Jeff and Lester, X-13 made them lose their memories while sleeping the gas off.

        “he doesn’t know who BD is, doesn’t remember he rocked her world or where he hid the glasses.”
        Of course not. He was gassed with X-13. If Morgan had an unaltered Intersect, the sequence of events would have been the exactly the same. Other the other hand, if Morgan had not been gassed with X-13, he might have remembered because the Intersect was affecting his long term memory more than his short term memory. He also might have forgotten because he was drunk.

        Morgan might still have gaps in his memory. He might not. We haven’t had confirmation.

      • MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

        Neither of those examples says “permanently” or Morgan still doesn’t have all of his memories back.

        Chuck told Morgan a story to help him access lost memories. Morgan watched movies as visual and auditory cues to help him access more memories. Sarah doesn’t watch movies. So I would expect other cues, such as dancing, kisses, drawings, and stories from Chuck. That could happen during 5.13 or be something that continues afterwards. I’m going to wait to see what happens, rather than say ‘She better not have her memories back because that is a plot hole.’ At this point it is only a speculative plot hole, and not much of one either.

      • jam says:

        “Chuck told Morgan a story to help him access lost memories. Morgan watched movies as visual and auditory cues to help him access more memories. Sarah doesn’t watch movies. So I would expect other cues, such as dancing, kisses, drawings, and stories from Chuck.”

        Exactly.

        Speaking of fan backlash, pitchforks and torches would only happen if Fedak failed to give Chuck and Sarah a happy goodbye, with her memories restored. All the tools for the restoration of Sarah’s memory have been introduced, so no.. the writers haven’t painted themselves into a corner.

      • armysfc says:

        jeff ok i see what the problem is. this is what i said, “if morgan still doesn’t have his back and its been months, it should take her just as long or longer to get hers back. most he never has gotten back. anything short of that will seem like a hand wave.”

        i never said plot hole you did. hand wave to me means they gloss over something and resolve it real quick. also i said if she got hers back it should take as long or longer. morgan didn’t get some back, that’s a fact from BO. you are correct they never said permanent. however ellie did say memory loss. they are working to find a way to keep it from happening to sarah. i may not be the brightest tool in the shed sometimes but why would they look for a way to prevent memory loss if it was a temporary condition? as for confirmation ellie says he has memory loss, how is that not confirmation?

        you as well as i write stories. do you list every item in it? like sarah has long hair. ok how long? see what i mean. if you describe a dress or heels do you say 4 inch heels, peep toe wedges, the dress ended 2 inches above her knee? that seems to be the meat of you point. they didn’t list any so it didn’t happen. most authors leave room for the readers audience to fill in some blanks. we have had a discussion before of what happens with ambiguity on chuck. i’m taking the simple direct approach to what they showed or told. morgan had memory loss according to ellie, a brain expert, and some never came back. your taking a micro approach that because they left out the details it didn’t happen.

        of course i only said the opposite of what most want. if at the end she has not got her memory back and there is 4 minutes to go, she looks at the picture chuck drew and bam all her memories are back, you can bet a whole bunch of folks will be happy as heck, because that’s what they want to see. they won’t care about the how or the why, just that she is back to normal.

        this has been fun again. i look forward to more, just a different topic!

      • lappers84 says:

        Sorry Army, just wanted to say – I agree with your statement about how contrived it would be to have Sarah suddenly have her memories return – if she had the same intersect as Morgan, who still can’t remember everything months after it happened. But again let’s not forget, as far as we know the only thing that had been forgotten by Sarah as a result of too many flashes was Alex. Then Quinn comes along and uses some kind of flash cards to suppress the intersect (as well as the remainder of her memories) – you could see in the mini flashes she has of the wedding, their first kiss, etching their name in to the wall. As said maybe these memories aren’t actually forgotten – but simply hidden along with the intersect (does make that scene in the promo more interesting – that the only way for Sarah to regain her memory fully or near fully is to reactivate the intersect in her brain – which could kill her.) Also what was it again that Chuck was putting together on the train – was it a suppression device??? surely if he and Ellie can do that they can surely create a reactivation device. But that’s just my take on it.

      • armysfc says:

        Lappers, she tells chuck she has the same version as morgan on the bullet train.

      • MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

        Ellie: “Sarah has the same version of the Interest that made you lose memory and deteriorate socially.”
        (She’s not implying he’s more of a jerk now than he was before the Intersect. Her help getting Alex and Morgan back together indicates the opposite. So she’s not implying he has memory loss now.)

        Devon: “Could be worse than we thought.”
        Ellie: “Don’t worry, honey. Morgan’s vocabulary never really expanded beyond cereal boxes and comic books.”
        (She doesn’t sound concerned about continuing gaps in his memory. She doesn’t ask about things he might still not remember.)

        Devon: “Looks pretty normal.”
        Ellie: “There is no evident long term effects of having the Intersect.”
        (“No evident long term effects.”)

        Ellie: “If we can figure this out, we can help save Sarah from the deleterious side effects.”
        (They aren’t solely worried about memory loss. If they were she’d have said, ‘we can help save Sarah’s memories.’ Memory loss was only one problem. The bigger problem was Morgan’s attitude and reckless behavior.)

        As I have said repeatedly, Ellie does not say definitively one way or the other if Morgan _still_ has memory loss. The brain expert implies he doesn’t 3 separate times. It’s possible he does still have memory loss, but that’s complete supposition and far from a fact.

      • thinkling says:

        @Jeff: Thank yeew. Morgan’s MRI, which shows no long term effects, is what tells us that Sarah can get her memories back with the proper triggers. So, if Sarah recovers her memories in full (or almost), no one can cry foul.

        As far as Morgan’s memory loss of the night in Vail, that was never attributed to the Intersect, but to lots of booze and x13 gas. Further more those were not pre-Intersect memories. The memories Sarah needs to get back are older memories, as were the memories that Morgan lost. Anyway, all evidence suggest that Morgan no longer suffers any side effects or memory loss due to the Intersect.

        The relationship breakdown. It really doesn’t matter if Chuck knows it or not, it’s a done deal. My husband may not know that our car broke down until I tell him, but the car is none the less, broken down. As of now, the relationship is broken, because a functioning relationship requires two people who know each other and will to participate in said relationship. That doesn’t mean that the memories can’t be recovered, and when they are the relationship will also be restored, maybe even stronger. (Morgan said his trials with Alex made them stronger — foreshadowing perhaps?) The relationship can be rekindled again before Sarah gets her memories back, but it can’t be restored to what it was without them. The non recovery of her essencial memories and Chuck and Sarah having to start over would be a tragic, depressing end, not a happy or satisfying end. No matter how determined they were or how well the new relationship seemed to be progressing, you would still have to grieve the loss of five years, which is the whole journey/story they’ve been telling us. That kind of end makes no sense. I have to believe they plan on resolving the memory loss, and I certainly infer that from Yvonne’s interview in which she said she found herself wondering, “how is this going to get resolved?” and then added that there would be a satisfying ending. (I.e. it does get resolved.) As to the timing, the tragic part happens mostly in 12, because she says, “There will be a satisfying ending, but it’s almost slightly, slightly tragic, the lead-up to what happens.”

        I’m expecting 12 to end better than it begins, or certainly no worse. I think Chuck vs Sarah will take us down a dire path as everyone is affected (deeply and emotionally) by Sarah’s memory loss/brain washing. We will all go through a rough, rough time. In that way it will get worse before it gets better, but the tragic cause of all of that has already happened. The bomb has already gone off. What we get now will be fallout from the tragedy. However, I expect the cause to be recognized and partially dealt with by the end of 5.12. By then, I think Sarah will know the score and be on the right team, and Chuck & Co will be working on a solution to the memory problem. That’s my hope anyway. If not by the end of 12, then early, early in 13, because there’s still a bad guy to catch, memories to recover, a love story to revisit, and goodbye’s to say. They can’t get stuck for too long in the tragedy. They have to keep the story moving, even in 12.

    • Katsumaro says:

      Yeah, I reeealy hope #2 of the endings isn’t right because as much as I like an open ending.. I at least want *some* of the ‘lost memories’ from Sarah to be restored, and for her to know the love’s really there, and for them to be on a semi-status quo of sorts. That and give us at least 10-15 minutes with them. Heck.. even #1 I dunno about. Pretty sure Sarah would need her intersect removed considering what the bad one’s doing to her brain right now. I’d rather Chuck be without it too, because honestly.. he’s such a better character without it.

      While I hope they do bring the beach back, I don’t hope it’s the last scene of the series with there being some unknown, nervousness about whether Sarah remembers she loves Chuck and is married to him or not.

      • lappers84 says:

        All this reminds me of the end of Total Recall – when the two of them are standing together on Mars, after taking out the bad guys – and everyone is saved. (And they still hadn’t answered the question on whether the whole thing was a dream or not.) Then it just ends – And we’re like “WTF”?? – Just hope it doesn’t end like that with the Beach scene and then black screen.

    • jam says:

      Only scenario #1 is acceptable, although I don’t think Chuck or Sarah will have an intersect after the finale is over. Any kind of permanent memory loss for Sarah + having to “rediscover their love again” is just bullpoop best left for daytime soap operas.

      • lappers84 says:

        I reckon she’ll remember that she loves Chuck – and the end will see them trying to get back on course to what they originally planned. (There might still be things she’s forgotten, but all in all she’ll probably be as good as recovered.)

    • mxpw says:

      This is one of my bigger problems with this amnesia storyline. As you said, there are so many ways Chuck could easily convince Sarah that Quinn is the bad guy and he’s on the level that the dancing required by the writers to make this storyline fit seems quite daunting.

      Plus, wouldn’t the Sarah from five years ago think it’s really strange that she’s been undercover in the same place for five years? It’s highly doubtful she ever had a mission last anywhere close to that long before. Wouldn’t she be taken aback that she married somebody? We know Sarah was a dedicated agent, but dating a mark for over a year, then marrying him, is taking one’s dedication to duty to absurdly extreme heights. And not something we’ve seen from Sarah before. I would think these things would be immediately throwing up red flags for her as Quinn tells her about the mission.

      • ArmySFC says:

        least we forget John Casey? she did know him from the pilot right?

      • esardi says:

        MXPW, you are making sense again and you know full well that is not what this show is about. If it made sense Quinn would have died when Sarah through him off the train.

        I really hope she get her memory back. Ending the show with her still having some memory loss will be really hard to take. However, I am expecting it and the tension to be on going until the very end.

      • ArmySFC says:

        esardi and that is when the episode went from great to good for me.

      • lappers84 says:

        Talking of red flags mxpw. What about Sarah waking up in her hotel room with no memory – and suddenly some random guy turns up claiming to be her handler – without any id to prove he is who he says he is. If this is really spy Sarah you’d think she’d be a little more vigilant about letting him in.

      • Katsumaro says:

        Oh oh, let me pile on. If she just forgot the stuff over the past five years, that means she shouldn’t have forgotten her conversation with Graham and the whole ‘no more handlers’ thing.. right? Yet this guy shows up claiming to be her handler.. that’d also be another big red flag. Notice the episode ended with him telling her to kill Chuck Bartowski, but we didn’t really get much of a reaction out of her. There might be a hope there that she knows something weird is going on.. though it could still be wrong, and they could sweep that under the rug.

      • mxpw says:

        Haha, all excellent points, guys! Like I said, there’s going to either be a lot of dancing going on, or else they’re just not going to acknowledge any of that. It’s the only way to make the story work.

        @lappers – I especially liked your point about Quinn not showing her any proof he’s who he says he is.

        @Katsumaro – Also a great point. The ironic thing is that Baby was written by LeJudkins and Chuck vs. Sarah is written by them too. I wonder if they will even acknowledge their own story points?

        @army – In a lot of ways, your point might be the biggest red flag of all. Sarah DID know Casey from the Pilot. The idea that she would not pause and think about John Casey, a man apparently well known for being a very loyal cold school killer in the intelligence community, wouldn’t at least cause Sarah to pause and think about what Quinn is telling her about Team B, is hard to believe.

      • MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

        Army, Sarah knew of Casey’s reputation. She thought he was a burn out. After five years that she doesn’t remember, burn out to traitor isn’t much of a stretch.

      • Katsumaro says:

        @Mxpw: Well, LeJudkins generally does a pretty good job. I’ve got a feeling that they wouldn’t use the ‘no more hanlders’ line unless they had an angle on..something, you know? Sort of like the drawing Chuck did after his and Sarah’s #sexytimes. Just seems like a real late, random thing to say even if the ending of Baby was a major retcon if I’d ever seen one.

        I’m glad to see some positiveness out of you though, Max. 😀 I hope these last two episodes don’t disappoint you or me. I’m hoping it’s real good and our points are at least mentioned in the episode. We’ve all got some good ones, after all!

        The obvious way out of it all is she was literally brainwashed by Quinn, but we won’t know until it all pops up. We’re certain of one thing; she pulls a gun on Morgan and she bashes Chuck into a mirror, so clearly she’s either playing along with something (oh so painful!) or really does believe what Quinn says. Come on, Sarah Bartowski, we believe in you!

      • ArmySFC says:

        Jeff seriously why me? others said the same thing yet you chose me? now that i don’t get.

      • MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

        You were at the top, Army, with “least we forget John Casey? she did know him from the pilot right?” I hadn’t read the follow-ups yet.

      • ArmySFC says:

        Jeff ok. talking about casey’s rep she would also knew he was loyal. she would know some of his past. just because she thinks he’s a burn out doesn’t equate to traitor in my book. so we will disagree on that one. bottom line is it will be a hard buy for me if they try to sell it.

      • lappers84 says:

        Also I think Sarah would find it strange that waking up in a hotel bedroom with 5 years of memories lost – and being told you got a bump on the head after a recent mission (must have been one hell of a bump on the head to erase 5 years of memories). But probably something they’ll just disregard.

      • MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

        In Helicopter, Sarah thought Casey was a traitor. However, if she talked to modern day Casey for two minutes, there’s no way she or anyone would believe he’s a traitor (well, maybe with the exception of frying pan wielding Ellie and her nosy, breaking and entering husband). I didn’t see Casey in the Intersect room. Maybe he’s not part of the mission because he’s considering his options (convenient but possible).

        I could see all of them (especially Morgan) making innocent comments that sound treasonous to Sarah, who doesn’t fully understand the context.

        We don’t know the exact nature of Sarah’s memory loss. Will it be:
        – to a specific day (like Alias)
        – more of a Swiss cheese effect (like Quantum Leap)
        – a stronger loss for recent events and more random for the past
        – focused around the Intersect and Chuck. The stronger the relationship to those things, the more likely to be forgotten (including Morgan, Ellie, and Casey).

        My guess is it will be whatever is necessary for the plot, which I guess is that Quantum Leap did.

      • esardi says:

        The only problem with that is that she does not have a bump on her head. You would think she would ask about that. The whole premise of Quinn as her handler is pretty flimsy. She would have to forgo all of her years of training as a spy not to have a lot of questions for Quinn.

      • ArmySFC says:

        in fairness he did say she was in the hospital for a week.

      • ArmySFC says:

        Granted and all true, but then add beckman into the mix. even if beckman wasn’t head of NSA att. it going to be a stretch for her to think that she’s a traitor also. sarah was a good spy at the start she should begin to question things even with out her memories. plus the other stuff, she forgets her meeting with grahm as well.

        i do agree with the selective memory loss to make the plot work.

      • ArmySFC says:

        another thing. he says i have been you handler for the past 5 years. per baby decker was her handler 5 years ago, so don’t you think a logical question would be what happened to decker?

      • MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

        Decker was not Sarah’s handler. Ryker was. Her memory of the Baby might be wiped too. If Ryker was her handler for only one mission, Sarah might not remember him either. We don’t know what was wiped because the episode hasn’t aired yet. We’re talking about plot holes in speculations.

      • atcDave says:

        Thank you Jeff!

      • atcDave says:

        Maybe we need a new “speculative plot hole” thread so I can stop reading it….

      • armysfc says:

        Thanks Jeff, no idea where decker came from.

      • esardi says:

        Ok Jeff point taken concerning the hair. However, unless this is an assassination, Quinn is going to have to tell Sarah something so that she can integrate back into team Chuck right? He is probably going to have to tell her she married him as part of the cover. Quinn has to say married or else risk being caught right away.

        We all agree that Sarah is a good spy. Also, Sarah of 5 years ago would have noticed everything. Well then as a good spy would she not ask Quinn why she was waking up in her apartment? Would she not ask him where all the pictures of her and the mark were? Will she even have a wedding ring? I would think there would be many questions that a good spy like Sarah would know right away that something was off with Quinn.

      • MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

        esardi, sure. Sarah would need details and answers. But I don’t want to see that scene. I’d prefer it take place off camera. That scene would eliminate some of the suspense and waste and limited amount of time left to tell the rest of the story.

      • armysfc says:

        jeff i’m going to be a ass here. we were talking about memory loss, you say ““His only confirmed lost memories were from the 24 hr window in Veil, due to the X-13 gas.”

        yet in this case you say, “esardi, sure. Sarah would need details and answers. But I don’t want to see that scene. I’d prefer it take place off camera.”

        up top you argue that there is no confirmation because they didn’t say it or show it. but for the bottom one your willing to take it on faith that it happened. why is there a difference in how you accept what goes on? from all we talked about the memory issue that was the main point. they never said permanent. why couldn’t have been said off screen?

        BTW i’m not messing with you, just trying to get a better understanding so i can avoid confusion in the future.

    • esardi says:

      Would this Sarah remember the length of her hair? The reason I am saying it is that She had long hair when she arrived in Burbank.The new Sarah is much shorter.

      • MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

        She isn’t being told it’s 2007. She’s being told it’s 2012 and she doesn’t remember the last 5 years, including her hair cut.

  27. MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

    The Live+7 for 12/30 are up 50% from the base number: 0.8 to 1.2. Chuck’s prelim ratings grew by 22% from 0.9 to 1.1. Last minute reprieve? (I’m just kidding. Please don’t go Greenblatt on me.)

    • ArmySFC says:

      i expect next week to be higher. last week and all.

    • esardi says:

      I really do not think Greenblatt cares.

    • atcDave says:

      It is nice to see them going up. I know it doesn’t really matter at this point, except as a sort of point of pride.

      • lappers84 says:

        Always nice to see the ratings increase before the end. Go out on top so to speak.

      • Jason says:

        Yvonne charmed a couple of dozen tv / radio hosts and their audiences this past week, don’t discount the effects that might have on ratings.

      • MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

        Most the Sobe promotion was before last week’s episode, which dropped to a 0.9 (could have been from a 0.96 to a 0.94). The only national mainstream promotion was on Kimmel, which gets half the ratings of Chuck. This week had the TV Guide and EW Magazine articles. While a lot of people here did not like the TV Guide article, it had pictures and was written in a way that might bring in casual viewers.

      • atcDave says:

        I think most of the uptick would be former viewers who want to see the end.

      • Jason says:

        Jeff – could be, TV guide is big, I prefer to give Yvonne’s charm the credit however. Maybe those who viewed her were so smitten, it took them a week to find Chuck?

      • MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

        Jason, you’re right. Maybe it took a little time for those videos to go viral. What we really needed was the Sobe/Yvonne Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Issue spread in 2011, with a small mention of Chuck. Ratings would have jumped in February and March.

    • MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

      The 50% audience increase with +7 really says something about the Chuck fan base, Friday night programming, and new shows on a holiday week. I’m just not sure how much it says about each. The 22% increase shows how percentage differences don’t mean much when the numbers are so small. I think reruns on CBS and CW this week and next week help as much as anything. Ratings don’t matter at this point anyway, but it’s nice to see Chuck not completely collapsing. 1.1 is a season best.

  28. thinkling says:

    Misc thoughts:

    The glasses that say “activate” that Chuck is staring at in the promo … could they be removal glasses? The pause before the final goodbye to all things spy? (Perhaps he had re-intersected in the Intersect room.)

    Like lots of you I think the drawing will play a part, maybe the house/doorframe. I can’t wait to see how Chuck gets through to her. I would prefer that be sooner in 12 than later, just because I don’t think Sarah should be fooled that long. It would make her look like … less than the spy she always was.

    To make the kill-Chuck plot play out as long as possible, she will keep that secret for a good while (until the Intersect room and the mission). She has to maintain an everything is fine cover (except for a little pesky memory loss) until that mission is complete. Then the cat jumps out of the bag in the Intersect room. Then Chuck knows the score and has to convince Sarah he’s the good guy and Quinn is evil. Still, I hope that from the get go she has little hints and clues (perhaps tiny memory flashes) about Chuck and the two of them. After he starts trying to convince her, it shouldn’t drag out too long. The romantic in me hopes that a kiss will be involved in memories flooding back. Seems like a logical door to them. Morgan’s MRI lets us know that it’s plausible for Sarah’s memories be restored more or less easily/quickly. Ellie and Devon said Morgan’s MRI looked normal and didn’t show signs of permanent memory loss, so Chuck just has to find the rock sitting on her memories.

    It looks like Sarah will be more or less herself (or at least on the right team) during much/most of 13. I hope so.

    As for an ending with Sarah still not remembering much at all, I don’t think so. I don’t think very many people would call that satisfying. Sarah in possession of her memories (allowing for small gaps — like Chuck post Phase 3) has become part of my irreducible minimum — along with Chuck and Sarah together, in love, and happy. I think they are two sides to the same coin. From Yvonne’s earlier interview (where she said she found herself wondering how they were going to resolve this, and In the next breath she said there was a satisfying ending) I infer that Chuck and Sarah get back what was taken from them … her memories, their relationship, their shared dreams. Maybe I’m wrong, but that’s my take. If I’m wrong, no big deal. I can get therapy later. 😉

    For what it’s worth, regarding the Intersect and spy life, I still see them without both, because I see Schwedak finishing the journey, and normal life makes more sense, given the theme of the season. If Chuck keeps the Intersect, it’ll be Chuck and Sarah’s secret, but I see them retired and starting a family, like Sarah said on the train. In the future, I definitely see a call coming from GB to drag them into a mission, but for now … retired. If I’m wrong on this OK … no therapy necessary.

    • MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

      Only two things make me think one or both of them might keep the Intersect and/or they both might remain spies. Everything else points to the normal life.

      One was an interview with Fedak from a couple years ago in which he said he liked the idea of ongoing adventures. GB trying to pull them out of retirement does fit with that. It’s what happened in Alias.

      The other reason is YS being surprised with the ending. They’ve foreshadowed the house, baby, and normal life so much, anything else would be a surprise. Losing that dream could be “slightly tragic.” However she just could have been referring to temporary memory loss.

      • atcDave says:

        My Costa Graven Pesos say she speaking entirely of the memory loss, which certainly felt epic and tragic last night! I can downgrade it to “slightly tragic” when most of the memories lost are only temporary.

        But I will concede there is a chance your spec is right. It wouldn’t be totally outrageous to end with them still in the game. And I remember that Fedak interview well, I’ve brought it up several times here as justification for why I think the book will never be completely closed on Chuck. If someday someone comes up with a story and can get the money, I think the opportunity will always be there for another chapter.

    • atcDave says:

      I think you’ve hit all the key points Thinkling. I would also prefer Sarah break free from the programming early, but my suspicion is it will be early in 5.13. That may not bother me so much if its plausible for her to be confused on the whole good guy/bad guy thing. And for the record I think I can buy her confusion, if Chuck and company are to be breaking into a government facility it gives them every appearence of bad guys. But of course, we’ve know even in her “enforcer” period Sarah was intelligent and prided herself in being one of the good guys. So I HOPE what we see is Sarah keeping score and being aware of numerous problems with the situation Quinn has presented her with; so when Chuck is suddenly made aware something is very wrong with his wife he will have something to get through to her with. And I do suspect that’s how it will play; I mean if Sarah really has no doubts at the moment she’s supposed to kill Chuck I think he would just be dead; bullet to the back of the head sort of thing. I hope they do not give us Sarah as an opaque mask until Chuck suddenly breaks down Quinn’s programming, it would be so much more fun to see her doubts and questions develop.
      As discussed all week, I expect 5.12 to be a rough ride, and I likely won’t start having fun with the story until 5.13. But if we see enough from Sarah’s perspective I might feel differently.
      I don’t know if my irreducible minimum has changed any, but my expectations have a little. We were told enough times in 5.11 that the memory loss was temporary I think I would be surprised if they tried to suggest much of it was permanent. I think we’ll get everything that was essential Chuck and Sarah back by the end. I’m not sure if either will still secretly have an Intersect, but I do think the possibility of getting a call from Beckman someday will leave us all set for that big mini-seriies in three years…

  29. jam says:

    “As for an ending with Sarah still not remembering much at all, I don’t think so. I don’t think very many people would call that satisfying. Sarah in possession of her memories (allowing for small gaps — like Chuck post Phase 3) has become part of my irreducible minimum — along with Chuck and Sarah together, in love, and happy.”

    We’re in agreement there, I wouldn’t accept anything less.

    People who say they’d be satisfied with an ending where Sarah doesn’t remember much but still loves Chuck really puzzle me. They’re fine with throwing 5 years of character growth out of the window? Really? That kinda makes me lose hope in this fandom. :p

    • jam says:

      And above was meant to be a reply to thinkling.

    • thinkling says:

      Yeah, I just see memory recuperation as a necessary part of the package.

    • atcDave says:

      Makes you loose hope in the fandom?! Wow that’s a bit melodramatic. I don’t believe anyone ever said that would be a GOOD ending. I also don’t believe there’s any chance of it ending that way.

    • dkd says:

      “They’re fine with throwing 5 years of character growth out of the window?”

      Character growth is taking a person from Personality X to Personality Y. It IS possible that, even without all her memory, Sarah is more Personality Y than Personality X.

      The most important part of her character growth was learning to express her emotions and wanting a life with Chuck. If that’s the Sarah we end up with, having gaps in her memory won’t matter, at least to me. And I don’t think it would matter to Chuck, either.

      Ultimately, it won’t be about what we think of Sarah, but what Chuck thinks.

      • MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

        That made me think of a quote from “For Love of the Game”
        Jane Aubrey: What if my face was all scraped off and I was totally disfigured and had no arms and legs and I was completely paralyzed. Would you still love me?
        Billy Chapel: No. But we could still be friends.

        Sarah’s memories are not a requirement for Chuck to love Sarah. They could still have a happy every after ending. It just won’t be a ending that as many fans like.

        My personal preference is she has all or nearly all of her memories back (Daniel who?). But I’d probably be ok if she just has the important happy memories back or at least shows signs that she is regaining them with Chuck’s help.

      • atcDave says:

        Yeah I think having enough of essential Sarah back to remember her love for Chuck is the bare minimum. It would be quite the downbeat if most of the actual details are gone, but again, we’re talking bare minimum here. If some memories have returned, with the hope most of the rest will return in time its getting better. If Sarah is all back to normal its a home run. I think it has to end in one of the last two situations. After all, we were told repeatedly the memory loss was temporary. Now they’re going to tease us and make us think “oooh, maybe its permanent”. But I don’t believe they would end things that bleak.

        But maybe she still can’t remember who Morgan’s girlfriend is…

      • MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

        Because Morgan having a girlfriend makes no sense at all. Neither does Casey being a caring father with a kid.

    • joe says:

      Jam, Thinkling, I think there’s a little room for nuance here.

      Sarah woke up at the end of The Other Guy more than a little foggy about what happened. Then her eyes lit up and she said “You saved me!” before she grabbed Chuck in a (until) death (do us part) grip and refused to let go. I don’t mind the thought that she might not remember exactly everything that happened on the bridge.

      It could be like that. I’m sure she’ll recover enough of her memories so that there’ll be no question about her feelings or their future. It doesn’t have to be 100%. The more, the better, of course. But we’re only quibbling a bit about the number and the comfort level of the fans, I think.

  30. lappers84 says:

    So just looked at the synopsis for the finale again and it says that Chuck has to stop Quinn from destroying everything that he has built over the last 5 years. Initially I thought it would be referring to Sarah, but it must have something to do with the intersect. Quinns spent the last 5 years trying to get hold of it (working with Fulcrum, The Ring and VI – and failing in every attempt) now he’s stepped out of the shadows to finally make his presence felt. First he tries to get the intersect glasses from Morgan and fails then he tries to capture Chuck and get him to make one for him – but again fails. Now he is resorting (with his obsessive knowledge of the intersect) to get Sarah to do it for him. So they get to the intersect room, then Sarah turns on them and takes the intersect (and obviously fails to kills Chuck) and hands it over to Quinn – who starts planning, whatever it is he’s planning (could be huge or it could be insignificant). Sarah then goes back to finish her other mission – to kill Chuck. She tracks him down to the house, and whilst fighting him – he manages to snap her out of it (maybe using the drawing or the etching in the wall.) Chuck and Sarah have a moment – and Sarah suddenly realises what she’s done reveals something bad is going to happen because of her. The final episode is the team trying to work through things in order to take out Quinn, whilst Sarah is trying to shake off whatever else she’s forgetting. They save the day – and Sarah by now would have regained a majority of her memory – and begin to plan for their future once more. Maybe a little too neat, but it could work.

    • thinkling says:

      Works for me, Lappers.

      Anybody else think this is a lot for only 2 episodes?

    • joe says:

      I like it too, Lappers.

      Think, the amount of stuff they got in between Chuck & Sarah at Stephen’s door (at the end of First Kill) to Chuck saying “Guys, I know Kung-Fu!” was a lot too! Then they did it again at the end of S4, extracting both Sarah and Marf from the clutches of “The Contessa” (er, Volkoff) to the birth of Clara! I mean, these guys like to cover a lot of ground in 42m 37s. 😉

  31. MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

    A couple clarifying observations from the promo:
    – We don’t know who Sarah was talking to when she says “You stole my memories”. It is edited to make us think Mary, but promos are often edited to mislead. We know it is Quinn who stole the memories. But she could be talking to anyone.
    – In the promo, Sarah does not ask, “Do you really love me?” or “You really love me?” If you listen closely, her tone is amazement, not questioning. She is realizing Chuck really loves her.

    • ArmySFC says:

      true and they are short snippets as well. it could come after she finds out she was intersected and that it caused her to lose her memories and blames team B for it. at this point anything is possible.

    • atcDave says:

      I noticed that about the “…love me…” clip. I think that was the most encouraging take away for me. It likely won’t come until early 5.13, but its a clear encouraging snippet.

      • thinkling says:

        Yeah, that was great, and it was a sense of awe in knowing the truth that Chuck really loves her. It would be sweet indeed if it happened at the end of 5.12, so they could be on the same page going after Quinn in 13 with Sarah remembering more and more as she goes along.

      • esardi says:

        Dave any thoughts about Chuck having to intersect himself again in order to stop Quinn? Quinn with the intersect would seem to me to be unstoppable. However, intersect against intersect would be an intriguing fight scenario. I know that Chuck is holding the intersect glasses while talking to Sarah. Maybe he is telling her he has to do it one last time.

        It was just a possibility when I was thinking what could be a final fight. If that happens than we surely talking 5.13.

      • MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

        Not to burst anyone’s bubble, but “You really love me” could be followed by, “and that’s what will make killing you so much sweeter.”

        *ducking for cover*

        If that’s what she really says, the evil promo makers would have put it in the promo.

      • ArmySFC says:

        could be followed by him saying NO.

      • esardi says:

        If they did that it would be awful to watch.

      • sd says:

        I agree….but….did you see Chuck’s reaction when she asks? It’s quick but it seems as if he’s weighing his options–ha!

      • thinkling says:

        Oh, no, SD, that’s his emotional relief that she finally realizes it. His Sarah is coming back to him.

      • esardi says:

        Hey Dave, right now on NBC, Betty White’s 90th birthday Zach was busy asking her for a date. I was cracking up. He really is funny.

      • joe says:

        Date, nothin’ esardi! Zac was giving her a marriage proposal!!!

        Or, at least, an offer to have her babies! 😉

  32. sd says:

    For some reason…my last comment was supposed to be a reply to atc Dave but it didn’t “take”

  33. sd says:

    Thinkling…hope so…but it seemed to me an odd facial expression.

  34. herder says:

    I think that we are forgetting some of the clues that have been dropped for us over the past few episodes. In Baby Sarah follows the instructions of her handler to get the baby but makes up her own mind as to the legitimacy of the mission and ultimately defies her handler. In Santa Suit the killing of Eve Shaw is brought back up, Sarah called that the worst day of her life, as the worst day of her life involved killing someone on command, she might balk at doing it again (even assuming her memories that it was Shaw’s wife, an agent, are lost).

    Finally she told Chuck “…I’m different, I’ve changed, you’ve changed me” even if the memories of what precipitated the change are gone the change in her might well have remained. My spec is that Sarah discards the kill mission even before she gets her memories back. As someone said above she realized that Chuck was a good guy in the pilot and started protecting him before that was her mission and I think that is likely to happen again, after that comes the memory jarring things like the picture, the bracelet (returned in Santa Suit) and the like.

    • thinkling says:

      I certainly agree about Sarah, and I hope you’re right, Herder, about her abandoning the kill order before she gets her memories back. It will be a hard sell to make me believe she would stick to a kill order for very long.

      • lappers84 says:

        LOL. We know she isn’t going to kill Chuck, the question is what stops her from doing this (does she regain some of her memories or simply realise that he does really love her and that it isn’t a cover??) – I what if by the end of 5×12 (hopefully) she doesn’t regain her memories of Chuck per say – but realises that the whole married thing isn’t a cover after all. Perhaps then the team realise that the suppression device that Quinn used has simply locked away her memories – and that she would need to reactivate it in order to regain them at the risk of her own life.

    • atcDave says:

      I hope that’s exactly how it plays Herder.

    • joe says:

      I just had a chance to re-watch (and I see I missed yesterday that Quinn had suppressed the Intersect, btw). I think you’re quite right. Sarah’s changed, and that’s going to come into play. I’m sorta hoping the bracelet does too.

      That promo is confusing because of the fast cut-a-ways, so I’m not at all clear on who Sarah is accusing of taking away her memory and who used the Intersect VR glasses when they say “activated”. I’m pretty sure that Mary and Sarah’s statement at the end are key. But I wish I had a feel for how early in the evening Sarah realizes that Chuck loves her. It sure looks like you’re right, Herder. She’ll decide that killing Chuck is bogus pretty quickly.

    • armysfc says:

      herder good thoughts and just as likely to be right as any. sarah did say that, yet two years later she was told by decker to kill a room full of men and did. she killed on command. she got into the house easy enough, she could have ignored the orders and just got the package without killing them if killing bothered her enough at the time. truth is it didn’t. it didn’t bother her to kill mauser either and that was after meeting chuck. she may put off killing chuck right away because she can use them to help her get the intersect and will plan to kill him later.

      • atcDave says:

        I would challenge the idea army that it “didn’t bother her”. I think we saw quite clearly that the killing DID bother her; in Baby she balked at the order and had to be re-assured that it was deserved. And with Mauser she waffled for several seconds while weighing her actions. Sarah has never been a cold killer. And I hope that comes into play again in the finale, she will question the order to ensure it is “necessary”.

      • armysfc says:

        Dave we have had this discussion before, lol. we didn’t agree then we won’t now. wafted or not she did kill them. plus you know TV, Movies it’s how it’s done, lol. better effects ya know.

      • herder says:

        Well I think the point is that Chuck didn’t really change her but rather was the person who moved what was inside her all along. In other words the killing always bothered her – why else would it have been her worst day – but she never acted on it. Quinn is counting on the fact that she would become the wild card enforcer again, but Baby shows that she was already questioning that role when she came to Burbank and met Chuck who pushed her from though to action, or as I hope, inaction.

      • atcDave says:

        well put Herder, I’m thinking, hoping, that even pre-Chuck Sarah will give Quinn some frustration.

  35. lappers84 says:

    I get confused when they use the term Suppression – At the end of Bullet Train Quinn tells Sarah “The intersect in you is rotting, I’m going to remove it with a suppression device.” he uses said device (flash cards) and the intersect is removed/suppressed along with her memories of the last 5 years – but again removed or suppressed. It’s kind of vague – seems to be a pretty loose word.

    • Well – if the Intersect is like a computer program…. even if you try to delete it – the program isn’t actually gone – you just can’t use it anymore…. well, unless you have some rather sophisticated software to restore all the data…
      So for this show – I’d safely say that supressed is essentially removed.

  36. Jason says:

    Seems quite a few fans like the more dramatic stuff. I think we all can agree creating angst between Chuck and Sarah generates ‘season ending’ and ‘series ending’ or even ‘epic movie’ quality drama. I wonder if ANYTHING else in the show could generate enough drama for a movie, something where Chuck and Sarah as a team took on the drama together? In some ways, there is a slight chance, that these two concluding eps will be more them together than it appears on first glance. My reason for saying that is they are on screen in the promo’s together a great deal. Of course, I’ll save Army the typing, the last two could also be them against each other nearly the entire while. I hope it is the former, but have braced myself for the latter, and fully expect it to be somewhere in between.

    • lappers84 says:

      Going back to a theory I had before. Is it possible that the flash cards used by Quinn simply hid her memories along with faulty intersect away – leaving her memory blank to be filled with false information. (Chuck and Sarah are cover married and run a private security firm?) 5×12 is her going after Chuck and the team and retrieving the intersect for Quinn – she soon realises that she has been duped by Quinn – and discovers he really is the bad guy. Sarah tracks down Chuck and pissed off fights him – in which he convinces her that the whole marriage thing isn’t a cover (hence the “you really love me”.) – Now 5×13 will be them teaming up again to take out Quinn – but also brings up the problem of how to unlock her memory, which could be the deciding factor. The promo scene of them staring at the intersect glasses could be that the only way to unlock her memory is to reactivate the faulty intersect which could cost her her life – or does she carry on and learn to love Chuck all over again????

      • Jason says:

        Lappers, if I were evaluating Quinn’s plan real life, I would think he must be planning on a quick kill, because he has to know that if Sarah is with Chuck undercover, that there are enough clues / hints / people to tell her what is going on for real, that she would have doubts, unless he has reprogrammed her with a whole new set of facts, but what we see on screen does not seem to indicate that. So if it is a quick kill plan, I am guessing the quick kill could come in the apartment / mirror fight.

        If so, I can see the following dialog at some point during the kicks and punches:
        Sarah as she is clobbering Chuck: Fight back
        Chuck: I can’t fight you Sarah, I love you
        Sarah stops, looks at Chuck, asks somewhat puzzles: You love me?

        This ‘could’ happen quite early in the episode.

        Quinn’s backup plan could be to agree to restore Sarah’s memory, if she steals him the intersect, hence the gun to Morgan’s head (it appears she already has told Chuck to kneel down)

        I am further spec’ing that Mary stops Sarah, and the team then ‘teams up’ to bring down Quinn and get Sarah’s memory back, possibly even agreeing to make the trade either at a Berlin Weinerliscious.

        I am finally guessing that the activate button is Chuck getting ready to put the intersect glasses back on SArah to re-install her memory.

      • lappers84 says:

        I guess it always brings to the point of Sarah telling whoever it is that they stole her memories – now either she has her memories back or she is well aware that she has missing memories (Duh!) – which begs the question at what point do you think that could occur??

      • Jason says:

        I’m thinking once she realizes Quinn played her, she goes back to him, and that he makes a deal with her that if she steals the pristine intersect, he will restore her memories. Then, the ‘secret’ she can’t tell Chuck (because she does not want him to be involved in stealing) is that she has to steal the intersect in order to get her memories back.

      • Aerox says:

        Umm, just a quick note here, but if she was led to believe that she was playing a mark all along, wouldn’t it be kind of obvious that said mark was in love with her? Isn’t that the whole point?

      • Katsumaro says:

        Just to note, Jason.. I *think* the fight scene where Chuck’s smashed against the Mirror is in their ‘dream home’.. at least based on the curtains and what not from the quick shots we saw. That was my understanding, anyway.

        As for the “You love me?” bit.. I could see it going down that way, though I hope not!

    • armysfc says:

      Jason just to set the record straight, i hate angst, lol. i hate when they separate the leads or there is tension for the sake of the plot. i hate wt/wt with a passion. either start with them apart and get them together quick, or like in NCIS never have them involved. to much time that could be used to evolve a story better gets taken up with relationship stuff. also i’m not saying they fight or are against each other, just she won’t remember everything till near the end based on whats been leaked. i fully expect them to be working together to take down quinn as a team. do i hope i’m wrong about the memories yes, very much. i just think it comes late.

      • lappers84 says:

        I think your right Army, she might remember scattered things – but nothing solid until much later.

      • Jason says:

        I think it comes very late too Army. I don’t think my spec says it comes quicker, my spec says she does realize something is wrong, but still can’t remember Chuck. She then goes back to quinn, who confirms he took her memories, and that he can restore them, if she uses her position with Team B to steal the intersect. Hence the secret. I think the memories will get restored, if at all, at the end of the mission or maybe even fail at the end of the mission, and get restored literally as the closing credits come down. That would be very much like this show, wouldn’t it?

        Army, I don’t think I said you like Angst, I will accuse you of trying to throw a cold bucket of water on any post here that is even remotely happy in terms of the shipper POV. You may not even realize you do it, I have done the same in the past to those who don’t ship, and I work to dial it back, haven’t always done the best at it, but that is another story.

  37. Jason says:

    I just read something that makes me think Chuck re-intersects in 5×13. here is the quote, followed by the link:

    # Chuck “Chuck Versus Sarah” 512 (NBC, Fri Jan 27 8 pm). Sarah keeps a secret from Chuck in order to successfully pull off a perilous mission. Elsewhere, Ellie and Awesome are presented with a new and potentially life-changing opportunity. Guest Cast: Angus Macfadyen (Nicholas Quinn).
    # Chuck “Chuck Versus the Goodbye” 513 (NBC, Fri Jan 27 9 pm). Chuck embarks on his final mission in the series finale. He must revisit his past in order to save his future, as he teams up with family, friends and unlikely allies to vanquish sinister villain Nicholas Quinn, who is intent on destroying all that Chuck has built in the past five years. Guest Cast: Angus Macfadyen (Nicholas Quinn).

    http://scifi.about.com/b/2012/01/22/this-week-tv-jan-23-30.htm

    • esardi says:

      Jason this is what I thought for a long time. I believe that Quinn will get the intersect and reneged on whatever deal he may of made with Sarah. At that point the only way to get back everything he has worked for, Chuck has to fight the intersect by re-intersecting himself. It is a full circle kind of thing. That is why I believe that as Chuck and Sarah are talking and he is holding the intersect glasses, that he will talk to Sarah and tell her what he has to do to bring back her memories back. It would not surprise me one bit if Chuck keeps the intersect in order to protect himself and Sarah from any future bad-guys. As long as he has the governor, he really does not have much to worry about.

      My only complaint in all of this is that they let Shaw have the damn thing for 2 years without any apparent side affects. I guess you have to be loved by Fedak like he loves Shaw to get away with that nonsense.

      • MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

        I agree about why Chuck might keep the Intersect. It’s one of those “we’ll never be safe-they’ll always be after us” arguments.

        Shaw’s Intersect was a different version. It was created by the Ring and downloaded in an Intersect room, not with glasses. It also was not altered like the ones Morgan and Sarah downloaded. I thought Shaw was even more insane after the download (went from letting Chuck go in Paris to trying to blow up civilians at the Buy More), so that seemed to be a big side effect. I agree he should have needed a Governor, but we don’t know if Decker got him one or not.

      • Jason says:

        Everyone seems to have some personality side effects from the intersect except for Chuck, Morgan embraced his inner frosted tips, both Great’s changed, and who could argue Sarah’s ‘self indulgent’ side emerged, I mean who else racked up 40 flashes in a few days, as well as initiating Chuck into the ‘Bullet Train’ club?

      • jam says:

        “Bullet train club” eh? I don’t think the intersect had anything to do with that, and it was Chuck’s suggestion after all.

      • atcDave says:

        Someone suggested the other day the idea of Chuck ending with the Intersect but it being Chuck and Sarah’s secret. I like that idea, it leaves the door wide open for whatever conclusion we’re happiest with. Either Chuck and Sarah live happily and quietly ever after; or they get recalled into the life of action and adventure at some point.

        I won’t call it a prediction; but I love it as a possibility!

      • thinkling says:

        I like that idea, Dave. We do know that the Intersect they are going after is pristine, and we know that Ellie has everything they need to work on one. I like the idea of Chuck quietly maintaining the secret Bartowski Intersect, to protect his family and perhaps even save the world a few more times. It would even be OK if Sarah had one too. His and hers Intersect’s. I’d love to see that team on missions.

        Any guesses if they get their counter cyber-terrorism company … or was that a head fake? I still like the idea of them having a secret (less dangerous) spy-ish life along with the very normal one they want.

      • atcDave says:

        I don’t know which way they might zig on that. I’d be perfectly happy with them either in or out of the spy life, or something in between like Sarah’s “Bo” vision; as long as it’s together!

    • esardi says:

      I agree with you Jason that it was odd that a highly trained agent seemed to want to flash on everything instead of using her regular fighting skills. That probably was a side affect almost like a drug. Once you get hooked on it you become dependant on it for everything.

      Jeff, you are right about Shaw receiving a different intersect. However, even Chuck was not able to handle this version. I am just saying that because Shaw downloaded the Ring version, he would have flashed on every guard and agent at the facility. To me it was a huge plot hole. Without the governor he should have been one big pile of goo. I never saw or was it ever mentioned that he had a governor. Therefore, they missed on that one as far as I am concerned.

  38. atcDave says:

    The first of many Chuck articles we’re sure to see this week. This one courtesy of USA Today. Two tidbits that jumped out at me; Yvonne describing the end as “wrapped in a bow” (sounds like a euphemism for tidy and happy to me!) and Zach mentioning the possibility of a later Chuck movie (for now I don’t care so much if it happens, but I take it as encouraging that the core of the characters, story, and setting are mostly intact at the end).

    • atcDave says:

      I’d also add a bit of happy Chuck news via the Detroit Free Press. That paper used to regularly list Chuck as “must see” entertainment every week; until “Chuck vs. The Fat Lady.” At that point, the paper went through a radical restructuring and fired their entire entertainment staff (and switched to a syndicated service; such is the nature of the newspaper business in the 21st century). The syndicated writers have not recommended Chuck ONCE in the three years since; until today. They picked Chuck’s finale this Friday as “must see” viewing for the week.
      Of course newspapers don’t have the influence they once did (which relates to why there were mass firings…), but its still good to see some good press.

      • herder says:

        It’s interesting to read the different reviews, Television Without Pity which used to love the show now has a reviewer who hates season five. On the other hand Dan Owen who does Dan’s Media Digest has changed and changed again, he likes season three, disliked season four and, except for the Morgansect beginning (saying he was only following the series out of loyalty to what it was), loves season five.

        I used to find it frustrating in season three to read about how good it was, then last year after seeing what I thought was a great episode to read his review giving it two and a half out of four stars. For what it is worth he has given three to three and a half stars to most of the episodes since the Morgansect comparing it to the heights of season two and three. I know that many who liked season three didn’t like season four and vice versa but I haven’t run across many who disliked season four but liked season five.

      • atcDave says:

        Yeah herder, I haven’t either. And in fact, among the many casual fans I know, I really haven’t found anyone who disliked S4 or S5, Morgansect included. I do know many who can’t do Fridays, so the show sits on their DVR until Monday or Tuesday; but I don’t know a single viewer who survived S3 who has quit since.

        I think the Detroit Free Press situation was completely a case of changing writers. The current entertainment section tends towards reality shows and such tripe.

    • lappers84 says:

      Sounds promising – maybe a movie will be them years from now having to come out of retirement to face the threat of multiple intersects running rampant in the US. OK a little extreme, but I’m tired.

  39. Rac2873 says:

    USA Today Article about finale. http://usat.ly/AEECvr

  40. Here’s part 1 of a 5 part TVGuide countdown to the finale Friday – http://www.tvguide.com/News/Chuck-Finale-Countdown-Jeffster-1042116.aspx

    Hey, with all the stuff that’s bound to be published, we might break this Final Spoiler page too 😉

    • lappers84 says:

      OK, that has made me even more excited. Over budget?? Blowing stuff up?? Catsuit Sarah??? Evening Gown Sarah?? Jeffster singing??? Fulcrum and the Ring???? And that’s just part 1?????

    • esardi says:

      Well Peter I am looking forward to part two. They may let some good stuff out about what is going to happen between Chuck and Sarah. That is what this show is all about. Let us see if they give anything away that would clue us in to when her memories start returning.

  41. ChipLecsap says:

    Yvonne one last time in a catsuit, and a Sarah & Chuck Tango. I’m officaly waiting for the finale XD.

    • lappers84 says:

      Don’t forget Jeffster singing – and of course being involved in the actual spy stuff.

      • Jason says:

        That article was really encouraging, Jeff and Lester have had a great season. It was really smart to make them different, yet friends, they were too much the same guy the first 4 seasons. I have enjoyed their quest to learn about the SpyMore.

      • lappers84 says:

        I’m curious to what their roles would be. We’ve been focusing so much on the whole Chuck/Sarah dynamic that we have seemingly forgotten about the others.

  42. MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

    I called it: https://chuckthisblog.wordpress.com/2011/11/29/chuck-versus-the-dvr/#comment-58207
    Actually, that was about patience and the show Castle, and the comment had nothing to do with predicting a homage for the series finale. So I really didn’t call it.

    In case some people aren’t familiar, here’s a 9 1/2 minute video of the 1956 Jimmy Stewart/Doris Day version of the scene: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NaoKtN-4–0
    In the 1934 original, the scene starts at the 54 minute mark, and the cymbal player didn’t have to wait as long: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjA-mJwxNkQ

    I doubt Jeffster will be trying the Bernard Herrmann’s composition in The Man Who Knew Too Much. So any wild guesses on the song?

    • An ’80 song that is very difficult to do? A beautiful, bizarre, apt choice? How about Take On Me by A-Ha. Take a look at the lyrics:
      We’re talking away
      I don’t know what
      I’m to say
      I’ll say it anyway
      Today’s another day to find you
      Shying away
      I’ll be coming for your love, OK?

      Take on me (take on me)
      Take me on (take on me)
      I’ll be gone
      In a day or two

      So needless to say
      I’m odds and ends
      But I’ll Be
      Stumbling away
      Slowly learning that life is OK.

      Say after me:
      “It’s no better to be safe than sorry.”

      Chorus

      Oh, the things that you say
      Is it life or
      Just to play my worries away?
      You’re all the things
      I’ve got to remember
      You’re shying away
      I’ll be coming for you anyway

      Take on me (take on me)
      Take me on (take on me)
      I’ll be gone
      In a day…
      (Take on me, take on me)
      (Take me on, take on me)
      I’ll be gone (take on me)
      In a day… (Song Fades)

      And the title of the final ep – Chuck vs The Goodbye

      Just thinkin’ is all

      • sd says:

        You had an “Ah-Ha” moment…sorry, had to go there 🙂

        I remember the song and I remember the amazing music video that went with it…a “revolutionary” technique at the time.

        And yes, the song fits!

      • jam says:

        I vote for Crowded House’s “Don’t Dream It’s Over”.

    • jam says:

      Oh wait, it will actually be an A-ha song. Well, *the* song, I don’t think they had any other hits.

      • herder says:

        I think they did the title song to one of the Bond movies (Living Daylights?) which could fit with the show and the ideas of cybals crashing.

  43. Rac2873 says:

    I think you nailed since Mrs Hemski tweeted a link to the song. The lyrics are kind of sad. Hopefully this is a song for the fans and not Chuck and Sarah.

    • Did she? Don’t follow her so don’t know.

    • Jason says:

      Did any of you ever see the video that goes with the song? If you substitute the intersect vs reality or spy vs reality for the cartoon vs reality theme in the video, the video and Chuck and Sarah’s predicament actually coincide somewhat. Plus, it does have a guy saves the gal moment near the end, literally pushing her out of cartoon land back to reality while he stays and fights alone, only to show up at the end at her door, in reality. Take a look:

  44. Jason says:

    There are several new articles out there. I don’t have the link, but Sepinwall is doing one per day, each season, so today is season one. Lots of Schwartz and Fedak input as to how the show evolved in that one.

    Here is probably the most positive thing I have read this am:

    http://www.tvfanatic.com/2012/01/tv-fanatic-on-set-chuck-cast-dishes-on-finale/

    Anyhow, this should be a pretty neat week to be a chuck fan with so much information being thrown out there. For us more copious bloggers, in a way it is our series final week too, although I would guess some of you will just be warming up your keyboards by the time the show ends.

  45. armysfc says:

    chucktv posted screen caps from the finale promo. pretty good stuff.

    http://chucktv.net/2012/01/23/spoilers-screencaps-from-the-chuck-series-finale-promo/

  46. lappers84 says:

    I know this has been discussed before, but do any of you think that all of Sarah’s memories are gone??? (including any feelings or quirks she may have picked up in 5 years) maybe she meets Chuck again – and she has an instant connection but without memories of the man himsefl she would be confused – “I’ve never met this man, but why do I have these sudden feelings?” Kind of thing. I suppose for the story they would just have her forget period and let it play out. But would do you guys think??

    • Katsumaro says:

      I think it’s been mentioned a few times that her memories may just be ‘suppressed’ and need to be brought back out, but I’m not 100% sure.

      As for meeting him and instantly having feelings, well I dunno! Promo sure does show Sarah kicking his butt!

    • esardi says:

      Good question Lappers, in order for her to attempt to kill Chuck there can be no memories. However, I am wondering if being back with him and in contact with everyone else will begin to give her a sense of deja vu.

    • atcDave says:

      My guess would be that her memories will come back gradually over the course of 5.13. They keep saying all five seasons will be honored, so I’m thinking as the episode unfolds we’ll see Sarah progressing through the various stages of the Charah relationship, and she’ll be whole and well again by the end.

      • Rac2873 says:

        Fedak said characters come full circle. What does that mean for Chuck and Sarah. Sarah ends up being pilot Sarah just meeting Chuck for first time, Chuck is free? I hope they don’t throw 5 years of SW out the window.

      • atcDave says:

        I don’t think they mean it that way Rac. The full circle would have them (Chuck and Sarah) starting 5.13 in an S1 state of affairs and ending in the S5 condition. I’m guessing it’s a microcosm of the entire series. We also know it means they will pay homage to many scenes and characters from past seasons; from Weinerlicious, to Tango, to the cat suit….

      • lappers84 says:

        I think the deja vu thing would be the closest thing I think will happen – she’ll go to the Buy More and realise she’s been here before but hasn’t so to speak. I wonder if we’ll get any Vicky Vale references?? Also did you notice when she saw the picture of Chuck she paused slightly – maybe again it was a case of ‘I don’t know him, but he looks strangely familiar’. And Dave your probably right also that the things they do in the last couple of episodes will jog her memory of things they have done within the last 5 years – hence the homege-y stuff. By the end we hope most of her memories have returned (or at least all the important Chuck memories.)

      • thinkling says:

        The full circle would have them (Chuck and Sarah) starting 5.13 in an S1 state of affairs and ending in the S5 condition. I’m guessing it’s a microcosm of the entire series. We also know it means they will pay homage to many scenes and characters from past seasons; from Weinerlicious, to Tango, to the cat suit

        Spot on Dave. I think that’s exactly what it means. If they do it well, it could be awesome, and I include CvS in that as well. Just hope we get a good final scene, as satisfying as say, Baby. 🙂

      • atcDave says:

        Yeah Thinkling, I’m cautiously excited about what we’re hearing; but sooooo much hangs on how it finally ends up. This could be anything from a series highlight, to a total dog, to almost anything in between. As I said, I’m cautiously optimistic, but the doubts I do have will keep me on edge until the very end!

    • The whole Morgan Intersect thing – was to give us a preview of what Sarah is going through…. so, I suspect she’s the same Sarah – just without most of her memories.
      By comparison – how many times has Chuck had – then Lost – both the intersect and his memories – but remains reletively intact….. I think that’s the thing that makes him so special. He’s wired [ or formatted] differently… [whether born that way – from his fathers lab experiments?]

      • So – if she’s still the same person – we can expect that she’ll have the same reactions or behaviours… with or without her other memories. So if that person felt some attraction to Chuck before – we should conclude that given the right circumstances – she’d fall in love with him again. Loosing her memories – and loosing the intersect didn’t make her a different Sarah Walker [ I hope] – but sadly, everything that Chuck and Sarah went through might be gone – or faded…. or scrambled…
        How important will it be to restore all those memories?
        Will the past even matter to Chuck? Will past memories be important to Sarah?
        or will they choose to focus on their future?
        I’m guessing that as long as they are together [ Lean on Me] the past won’t matter.

      • lappers84 says:

        Tbh. If they simply let Sarah start a fresh – it would be a bit of an anticlimax. I mean all that character growth flushed down the toilet – that wouldn’t be satisfying to me. And the character growth has been a major factor of the series.

      • thinkling says:

        Right Lappers. Remember this is a journey/growth/character story. The past matters, as it does to every relationship and journey. Could they start over with a spark of love and still make something great? Sure, but that would be a tragedy with a slightly hopeful ending, not a journey with a satisfying ending. This is Chuck, not Regarding Henry.

        All my CGP are on Sarah recovering her essencial memories: their journey, their love story, their dreams … the drawing, the door frame, the end that was so close they could taste it. But hey, I could be wrong. If I am Chuck This may become a support/therapy blog.

  47. jam says:

    “How important will it be to restore all those memories?
    Will the past even matter to Chuck? Will past memories be important to Sarah?”

    It should matters to viewers, getting cheated out of 5 seasons worth of character development would leave me with rotten taste in my mouth, even if they are together in the end.

    • dkd says:

      I don’t see how it erases the show we watched. It still happened. Chuck experienced it. We experienced it.

      • jam says:

        Because I care about the characters, Sarah permanently losing her memories would be a horrible ending, bringing down the the entire finale, the whole 5 seasons with it.

        There’s absolutely no defending such conclusion.

  48. Aerox says:

    So uh… that second sneak peek was… interesting to say the least.

    • lappers84 says:

      second sneak peek???? where’s the first???

    • thinkling says:

      2nd sneak peak? Sorry, but I think I missed something …

    • thinkling says:

      Second sneak peak restores my faith in how they will portray Sarah.

      One of the BTS leads me to believe the Intersect glasses are for Sarah not Chuck.

      • MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

        The second peek is reenforces my faith, not restores. If they didn’t portray Sarah well more often than not, no one would like the character.

        I said in a previous post that I didn’t want to have valuable screen time wasted with Quinn providing fake background information to Sarah. That second clip shows I was wrong because I never anticipated Sarah’s awesome reaction. It also shows how it is pointless to complain about Sarah’s reaction to the memory loss being unrealistic when we don’t even know what that reaction fully is.

      • thinkling says:

        I amend my word choice, Jeff, although I was a little concerned.

        True, we don’t know how she will respond, but we speculate, because … well, that’s what we do, right? From what they left us with at the end of Bullet Train and the whole idea of mind-wiped Sarah, concern wasn’t off base. Now we know that the good spy she always was isn’t gone … and that is good news for Chuck.

      • atcDave says:

        I also had concerns. I still have some, but not as extreme as I did. I like Sarah’s reaction and I love this set-up to bring about a near S1 circumstance (Sarah seeking out Chuck with no knowledge of what she’s getting in to). But I’m guessing I’ll be less enthused when Sarah does briefly turn on Chuck.

    • atcDave says:

      Very interesting. It does explain a lot though. Like why Sarah doesn’t just kill Chuck on first sight. My guess is she’ll track him down in full spy mode, trying to figure out who he is and why she was supposed to be “investigating” him for five years.

      Of course it does indicate she may draw some wrong conclusions about Chuck if they come to blows later in 5.12.

      • dkd says:

        I assume that her mission is to get the “pristine” intersect first and, then, kill Chuck when he’s not useful anymore. Chuck’s computer hacking skills would come to play in stealing the intersect. In fact, he’s on the computer when Sarah is holding the gun on Chuck in the promo.

  49. Rac2873 says:

    Looks to me Sarah doesn’t know who to trust. So when Chuck does something that is Fishy she gets confused. There is no way Quin is dead.

  50. ChipLecsap says:

    Heavy Spoilers!!!!! Now every one can be happy 🙂
    http://zacharylevifan.com/wordpress/?p=11874

    • Rac2873 says:

      Now we know what Sarah’s secret is?

      • esardi says:

        Ok so from what I am gathering here then her in to integrate back into the team is to tell them that she killed Quinn. So that is her big secret that Quinn is alive? I am somewhat confused. Yes Quinn being alive is a big secret, however; setting up to kill Chuck and steal the intersect, that does not count as keeping a big secret?

        I just have to say that she is holding several secrets including the fact that she is on a mission and cannot remember anybody. Yeah Jam you are correct, sneak peak 1 happens early in 5.12 in my estimation.

      • atcDave says:

        I think the big secret is mainly that she doesn’t have any memories (teamB does not know what Quinn did to her). So she’ll rejoin her “team” to investigate what’s going on, not really as a happy reunion with her husband. I think the Morgan/Casey scene is from early 5.12. Sarah has returned and told the team Quinn is dead (which she may believe to be true). At that point, Morgan and Casey may feel all is well, or will be soon. Chuck will likely be the first to realize something is seriously wrong with Sarah. But I’m guessing they won’t realize how wrong until she turns on them (after concluding they’re all a bunch of rogue terrorists maybe?). But that part of the story probably won’t last long, I’m thinking end of 5.12 to the beginning of 5.13. Sarah will quickly realize teamB are the good guys, Quinn is alive and pure evil, and maybe even that she has some real feelings for Chuck. Then while Chuck and Sarah track down Quinn for real (5.13), their romance will rekindle, possibly with memories returning in bits and pieces.

      • thinkling says:

        Very likely Dave.

        Side note: Quinn now takes the place as Chuck’s most evil villain for what he did to Sarah and by extension Chuck. In my book he’s even worse than Shaw.

      • esardi says:

        Seriously Dave if that is the case we are going to have to give Quinn a cat nickname because it is obvious the man has more than 9 lives! (LOL)

      • ArmySFC says:

        he’s now been tossed out of more windows than casey, maybe.

      • MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

        Mungojerrie Quinn

      • esardi says:

        Hey if he can survive being tossed out of a bullet train going 100 miles an hour, being tossed from a high rise is a piece of cake.

      • atcDave says:

        Now Jeff if we get some “Quinn the Eskimo” out of all this it can’t be too bad!

        Who was it, DKD maybe, said coakroach? I think that’s perfect. He has more lives than Vincent.

        I agree Thinkling that Quinn is the most evil we’ve seen. I’l probably always dislike Shaw more, and not in the “love to hate” sense. But Quinn has risen to the top of the Volkoff/Roark sort of baddie list.

    • jam says:

      Sneak Peek 1 is obviously a red herring.

    • dkd says:

      It’s a good thing for you all that zacharylevifan didn’t post all the actor’s interviews. Other actors spilled much more than Zac did.

      I’ve seen them and I’m not going to put them up anywhere, but I’m sure someone else will.
      As much of a spoiler junkie as I am, I think I know too much.

      It looks like a great ride to a satisfying end. Anyone who is still fretting, my advice is “stop it.”

      • Katsumaro says:

        I’m trying to figure out how both of the spoilers work in tandem. My initial thoughts were Quinn survives the fight with Sarah (obviously) and then works something out with Sarah that gets Sarah back with Chuck, her secret being Quinn is obviously *not* dead.. and the whole Morgan/Casey scene is a big time red herring, but I dunno.

        @dkd The interviews are spoilerific?

      • dkd says:

        The Zac interview, as I recall, is the least spoilerific. There are eight other interviews. I thought the actors would just be talking in general terms. But, each revealed something. I know what the job offer is for Ellie and Awesome. I know what happens with Chuck and Sarah (though, not the final, final ending). I have an idea what Casey’s decision is going to be. I know what Jeffster’s part is. I know a lot about a Sarah scene that is shown in the BTS footage from Yvonne’s interview.

        I know too much.

      • Katsumaro says:

        LOL. I’m..actually interested in what you know, dkd. :>

      • MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

        “I know too much.”

        dkd, if the concert hall is a nod to “The Man Who Knew Too Much”, be careful. The bad guys might be after you.

      • dkd says:

        I’m not going to spill. But, I suspect that someone will put the other interviews up pretty soon.

        Everyone has a different spoiler tolerance level. I think I like knowing a little bit of information because I have fun speculating. But, when I know enough that there’s little left to speculate about, I get disappointed. What am I going to do the rest of the week if I’m not trying to work things out in my head?

      • Katsumaro says:

        Only reason I care about knowing *some* spoilers is I like speculating as well and seeing if I’m on the right path as far as my specs go, but I do like a little surprise. Plus I’ve quelled my worries over the finale and the possible ending for a few days now thanks to a very special friend of mine (She knooows who she is), so I’m good there. I was mostly curious.

      • dkd says:

        Yes, I like a little surprise. Whereas some people get upset when their specs are wrong, I get pleasure in it. My fear now is that there is no more surprise for me in the finale.

      • Katsumaro says:

        Indeed. I’d be interested in talking to you outside of the board somehow if you have a twitter or something?

      • atcDave says:

        I actually consider it a failure of sorts if I guess too closely; I’d rather be wrong. Well as long as I still like the outcome.

        But I think I’ve had most of my fears assuaged, this should be awesome!

      • dkd – I watched them too & I’m glad you are taking the same stance I am. Let someone else spoil the fun.
        That said, we are in for a very interesting two hours. If the execution is as good as the last episode, we will have something to talk about for a long time.

      • dkd says:

        @dianekde

      • Katsumaro says:

        Thanks, dkd! Followed ya, you’ll see me.

  51. ChipLecsap says:

    Her Secret is to KILL Chuck. Quinn not gonna die in the fight wiht Sarah. He probaly will convince Her somehow.

    • lappers84 says:

      As I say he’s probably gone spiderman again.

    • atcDave says:

      I bet he only has convinced her to proceed cautiously. Her memories are still missing (that is her big secret), and she’s going to return to Chuck to try to figure who he is, why she was supposedly investigating him for five years, and why Quinn wanted him dead.

      She will likely draw some wrong conclusions initially that lead to Chuck and Sarah fighting. But I think she’ll figure out who the good guys really are early in 5.13.

      • thinkling says:

        Yeah, I think Sarah has a mission (steal the Intersect?), a secret (that she is supposed to kill Chuck), and a sub-mission (to find out the truth about Chuck before she carries out the kill).

        Just guessing.

      • lappers84 says:

        Yeah Thinkling and in investigating she falls for Chuck all over again and agrees to help him – whilst starting to remember some things

      • atcDave says:

        I always like the falling for someone all over again theme…

        Well, as long as there’s a good reason for it like we have here! (I hate manipulative story telling that feels they have to keep breaking the leads apart…)

      • lappers84 says:

        Bad guys always forget the power of love. It conquers all.

  52. Rac2873 says:

    Thanks for the warning DKD. Please post after the finale though. I am going to resist. I want to be suprised. 🙂

  53. ChipLecsap says:

    well I’m a spoiler junkie, so I would not mind if I know to much, mostly becasue, I have some theory and I want to know if I’m right, on some level, so I hope someone will upload all of the stuff

    • Aces says:

      Me, I just want to know whether Sarah gets her memories back or not. If she doesn’t, I don’t even want to watch the finale on Friday. It would be as if 5 years of Chuck never happened to her, I can’t think of a worse ending.

      • lappers84 says:

        I reckon she will or at least get her memories of Chuck back (that’s the crucial thing)

      • dkd says:

        Everybody involved with the show has said it is a satisfying ending. Magnus on Chuckgasmic says it’s a good ending.

        If you have so little faith in the show or the people who make, don’t watch on Friday.

      • Katsumaro says:

        Yup, have faith in our show!

      • Aces says:

        What might be satisfying for one person isn’t necessarily that for another.

        I’d never find an ending where Sarah doesn’t regain her memories satisfying, destroying that amazing journey the character has gone through the five years would be bitter indeed.

        If Chuckgasmic’s Darth Razorback thinks it’s a good ending it gives me hope, I can’t imagine him ever liking an ending with an amnesiac Sarah.

      • ArmySFC says:

        DKD true he did. he also wants to purge baby from this season.

      • Katsumaro says:

        Honestly, outside of a few of the action sequences from Sarah, and then the little family get together.. I’d be completely okay with purging “Baby” completely.

      • atcDave says:

        Dang not me. Baby was not only a season but a series highlight. That’s the sort of episode I watch the show for. I can’t honestly imagine the finale topping, or really even coming close.

      • ArmySFC says:

        sorry it was meant to say that peoples views differ. DR wants it purged where others say it’s the best of the season. different strokes ya know.

      • Katsumaro says:

        Oh for sure! Different strokes for different folks. Nothing against you, Dave. 😀 We all like what we like, and honestly.. “Baby” was pretty good until that final scene. Much like the Morgansect, it just made me go.. “Why… why?”

      • thinkling says:

        Oh, baby … I love Chuck vs the Baby. Yeah, Dave … one of my all time favorites. Of course, Chuck has so so many episodes that I just really love that it’s hard to pick just a few favorites. It’s like trying to pick the cutest puppy.

      • jam says:

        DR was annoyed by the continuity issues, and also because it was never explained what was Sarah’s mother (who seemed like a decent person) doing when her daughter was having adventures with a conman father.

        Viewers can explain these issues in their head, but that’s doing the writers job for them. In this particular case I chose to forgive them because I enjoyed the episode otherwise. If the other stuff hadn’t been so darn good I would have been far more annoyed with it.

      • atcDave says:

        Totally disagree with that beef Jam. Emma stated Sarah was always running off with her dad; no more explanation is needed. I’ll take it a step further and say more explanation would be a waste of screen time. Using that as an excuse for not liking the episode is simply rationalizing. There’s no foul in saying the episode didn’t work for you; but rationalizing excuses is just trying to quantify something that is abstract. Ultimately a futile exorcise.

      • dkd says:

        For what it’s worth, I didn’t like “Baby”. So many plotholes and inconsistencies with canon just for the sake of some “isn’t that so sweet?” moments. They never explained why Sarah was raised by her conman father instead of this overtly sweet woman.

        One of the most intriguing things about the upcoming storyline is the prospect of Sarah falling for Chuck anew. I’ve been rewatching old episodes. Just this morning, I watched their first “date” in the pilot when this hardcore spy is clearly being charmed by the nerd. Miss that stuff. It was great. I can’t wait to see what Chuck does to crack the ice this time.

      • jam says:

        I was just trying to explain DR’s views.

        For me it’s probably the best episode of this season, despite being somewhat annoyed by certain things.

      • MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

        For the record, I am officially staying out of the Baby debate this time. My fanfic was my last word about that episode.

      • Katsumaro says:

        Haha. I didn’t catch your fic I guess, Jeff, but I’m gonna take a step back from that discussion too!

      • Jason says:

        Self appointed canon police tend to apply their craft very selectively. The same self proclaimed sophisticates who scrutinize canon in episodes that please fans they don’t like, sqee like little girls in joy when ugly, dark things drive gaping holes in canon. For them, it isn’t about the writing, it is about the fan reaction. If a certain fan base does not like it, they love it, canon is just the way to manipulate those who listen to them.

        I loved the end of Baby, one of the best scenes this season. I must admit, had it not been brought up, I would not even had known it did somethig to little Bryce Larkin was, he is irrelevant to me. The Graham scene was an awesome fit for the Baby episode, a great re-introduction to that time frame, which is relevant to the rest of the season, and was yet another remarkable, cherished and memorable piece to the Chuck Sarah love story.

      • thinkling says:

        No need to jump back in. The “plot holes” were adequately explained in posts related to Baby.

      • ArmySFC says:

        leaving the debate alone works. my take was the end of baby was an attempt to show why sarah was in cal in the pilot. casey was told to go, but sarah just popped up. by showing her mom/emma were in cal, she has ties to the area. with the pilot now coming after baby she could have just done the drop off then been tasked to watch chuck.

      • atcDave says:

        Jason I think you’re exactly right about that; certain people will be unhappy just purely because certain others loved it.
        Now that said, I do get that there are certain issues with the Sarah/Graham meeting. As we’ve discussed at length, it can be made to fit with the Pilot, but it requires considerable fan effort and I think it probably could have been better crafted. But the whole “why didn’t Emma raise Sarah” discussion was explained in the episode; having a problem with it is simply selective amnesia and not judging the show fairly. Again, no one is required to like it, but to claim something is a plot hole or unexplained is not accurate.

      • MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

        *snort* I’m still staying out of this, but Dave’s selective amnesia comment got me thinking the problem has been those knock-off Intersect glasses several people here have claimed they can find at their local electronics or warehouse store.

      • atcDave says:

        I thought the tie-in to the current story was appropriate!

      • atcDave says:

        And Jam for the record, I wasn’t frustrated with you, just the argument that doesn’t hold water with me.

    • Katsumaro says:

      Haha. More power to ya! I was okay with “Baby” if they would have removed the last scene. =[

  54. McNugget says:

    From the conference call with Fedak and Adam via chucktv

    ChuckTV.net @chucktvdotnet 12m
    Fedak: “Second part of the finale is very much about the show as a whole” where 5.12 is about wrapping up the current storyline.

    • lappers84 says:

      So wait does that mean Sarah will have restored her memories?? or she knows she loves Chuck??

    • atcDave says:

      Funny since we know Quinn is still in 5.13. But maybe its just the final wrap-up of his story; or the Quinn story is clearly secondary to the Charah story.

      • lappers84 says:

        So the whole Sarah memory thing will only last the 1 episode – and the finale will be them finishing Quinn off.

      • McNugget says:

        I would be totally ok with that 🙂

      • atcDave says:

        That’s not how I read it at all, the memory loss will be an issue to the end of 5.13.

      • jam says:

        Based on the spoilers and sneak peeks, the memory issues will be dragged to 5.13, unfortunately till the very end or close to it.

      • Katsumaro says:

        Yeah, the memory issue will still be in 5.13. How much of 5.13, and how much of it will be resolved.. well that’s to be seen, but yeah. I’d definitely say 5.13 is more about Chuck and Sarah than Quinn, even if Quinn will be around.

      • atcDave says:

        I think Chuck and Sarah regaining what they lost will be a/the major theme of 5.13. And that recapturing process will be the framework for the callbacks to the history of the show.

      • lappers84 says:

        OK. So by the end of 5×12 Sarah has reached a point where she knows where she needs to be (and probably knows by then that Chuck does really love her.) and 5×13 will be her regaining that love for him – whilst taking out the bad guy.

      • esardi says:

        Dave I can tell it is going to be a satisfying ending, however; I really hope the memory issue or at least most of it is concluded not later than the first half of 5.13. It would be a shame if she is still having issues at the end. Let us hope it is not rushed.

      • lappers84 says:

        Sadly I think it will be a tad on the rushed side – considering they need to resolve an entire series into 90 odd minutes (its going to be jam packed)

      • thinkling says:

        Yeah, I really want the memories thing solved with enough time to see the couple they’ve become in S5 in teamwork and action and relationship together again. I would hate to think that the train compartment/drawing scene is the last we see of that couple in action. That’s the couple I want to see take down the big bad together.

      • atcDave says:

        That is sort of my concern too. I’ve been on record as saying that after five years I would have really liked a lengthy and heartwarming denouement. My main concern now is just that we won’t. I expect the ending to be sweet and satisfying, but short on a proper epilogue. Which is sort of typical for serialized television.

      • thinkling says:

        I’m not even talking denouement (but I would certainly love a LOT of that). I would like Chuck and Sarah back to relative normal entering into the middle section of 5.13, so that we get to enjoy them some more. They are the ones who deserve to take down Quinn for what he did to them. I want the couple of S5, not the couple of S1, to be the couple of the last 2/3 to 1/2 of the finale. *whine* OK. Sorry pity party over.

      • For those of you interested, I’m sure the memory issues last well into 5.13. If you look at every season finale from Two on, there is a lot of stuff crammed in – what makes you think it will be any different. (remember S4 finale & how short the opening credits were. They needed the seconds)
        That doesn’t mean it isn’t satisfying – just the degree of satisfaction derived from the ending for each person.

      • Jason says:

        Peter – I expected the memory thing to play right up to the end, but the courtship thing might be really fun, if done well.

      • atcDave says:

        Oh I agree Thinkling. Funny thing is, I think we’re both sort of responding how Yvonne indicated she did last week. This isn’t an ending I ever would have chosen. If I were in the writer’s room I would have screamed bloody murder and worked very hard on doing things VERY differently. I don’t expect to get a finale that would ever be on my wish list. When Fedak starts throwing around the word “epic” I start lowering my expectations a lot.

        But it might be fun anyway. That we’ll have to wait and see. My expectation is that it won’t be what I would have chosen, but will be pretty good any way. If it does actually turn out to be a great episode, bonus!

      • atcDave says:

        Yeah Jason I do agree with that. If the relationship/courtship unfolds like an accelerated version of the original growth of the relationship and characters it could be a lot of fun. I would have preferred to spend more time with the mature power couple we’ve seen much of this season, but I think what we get will be fun too.

      • Katsumaro says:

        Yeah, I expect the memory loss issues to stretch well into 5.13, what sense of tension would there be without that issue? I do expect, however.. that if I’m satisfied, I’m sure others will be as well, and I’ve got a lot of faith in the episode. Granted there’s no way in heck I’m throwing ‘epic’ around, I do believe we will like it!

      • thinkling says:

        Yeah Dave, we’re on the same page … not my first choice, but I really do expect to like it. I just already miss Mr/Mrs Bartowski.

        As for denouement we probably both want a full episodearc … season … or three. 😀

      • thinkling says:

        Speaking of Yvonne’s reaction, I’ve sometimes wondered if they sometimes get scripts and go “what in the world are they [writers] thinking.” Then they have to pour themselves into it, even if they hate it. I think that would be very hard.

      • esardi says:

        I am with you Katsumaro. I am expecting something like what happened in the other guy episode. They will probably walk into their home, Chuck will show her the Chuck and Sarah carvings, he will show her the picture he drew and then we will be able to tell there is full recognition from her with a big smile before it ends.

        It will be satisfying, maybe even good but I am not banking on epic.

      • MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

        The TV Guide article says what Vik Sahay’s reaction is: “I really feel like the criteria must be ‘What’s the most difficult song for Vik to sing? That’s how we’ll choose our music!'”

        I’ve seen interviews of actors in other shows where they talk about what the writers are doing to them. It’s usually pretty funny. Stuff like “Maybe they’ll give me a boyfriend, who won’t die this time” or complaining about the technobabble they have to memorize for the week.

      • So Jason – if Sarah were put in a position where should could notice all of Chuck’s quirks and falling in love with him – you would be okay with that? 😉

      • Jason says:

        Peter – I am not a fan of the amnesia story line, but … given the choice of having them apart in the finale as really has been the case most finales, or together with her having amnesia and having to fall in love with ‘her’ quirky, geeky, lanky, and of course ‘sweet’ Chuck, I’ll take the amnesia plot every time. It would be nice if she did remember at the end with maybe just a little exposition from her POV, that would be an added bonus. In general this show has paid off stuff they foreshadow, which might mean the picket fenced house and ‘maybe babies’ might be on the table at the end, but at this point, I don’t see how?

      • dkd says:

        I guess I’m on a different page than most you. I didn’t find the “married spy couple” of Season 5 half as interesting as they were in Season 1 when they were still getting to know each other. I think that’s one of the reasons I was bored with that show “Undercovers” right off the bat.

        I think it will be fun to see Chuck and Sarah working together with one of them (Sarah) kinda learning what her spy partner is all about and the other (Chuck) being pretty much in sync with his partner. The difference between this and Season 1 is that Chuck isn’t the asset who is told to stay in the car. He’s Bryce. In fact, I’m looking forward to seeing if the tango scene they have planned is a callback more to the Sarah/Bryce tango than Chuck’s tango with that villain or their dance in Angel de la Muerte.

        The more I think about it, the more I love the possibilities of this scenario.

      • Jason – an honest and well thought out answer to my question – thank you!

        I want you to know I am not being flippant – I really believe this is what is going to happen for Sarah – and in the end, she will get those memories back.

        I want to point out something I think has been misinterpreted – going full circle doesn’t mean you end up at the beginning – you end up where you began.

        In 5.11, where did Chuck and Sarah begin?

        Again, just sayin’….

      • dkd – I am with you.I think the potential is great – I’m also really glad it’s all on one night. Seven days might be too long for me to wait for resolution.
        Hey, sorry. I read books. Then answers are always in my hand if I want them.

      • Jason says:

        Peter – that is exactly how I picture full circle, the ‘homagy’ thing will start in season one, and end in season 5. The great thing is these will all be scenes with the two of them together, even in courtship, together is the key. I posted yesterday how many scenes CS are likely to be in together, the amount is staggering if correct.

        Since you brought up flippant, I’d like to just set my record straight. I know I am a jerk in portraying my shipper POV, but a few individuals with the other POV are so radically mean toward shippers, I feel some of us have to stand our ground, because much of what is said becomes fan forum facts, even if founded in delusional hysteria. Really, very few shippers fight back, they mostly take whatever is dished out to them, and often even admonish those with the same POV who do fight back.

        An interesting ? to someone neutral observing the polarized Chuck fan base phenomena might be, did the split hurt the show, or help it? After, the show did last 5 season?

      • Jason says:

        dkd – I was bored with Undercovers too. For me, Undercovers proves how much Chuck and Sarah should be together. The reason is because Chuck and Sarah earned the fans love, they had an awesome dramatic build up, a cute courtship, some yearning and yes angsts, and they became a great, dare I say epic tv romance. The undercovers couple literally had none of that, nothing, they just showed up all of a sudden, married and we were told they were awesome. Kind of like a certain …. ah never mind.

      • dkd says:

        Another thing I’d like to see again is some sexual tension.

  55. joe says:

    I’m so sorry that I’m way behind on these comments (only 70 more to go in this thread alone!).

    Apologies if someone’s already linked – but I put two new promos up-top. I’m pretty sure that the one labelled #2 is from 5.12 (vs. Sarah), but I’m not certain at all where the one labelled #1 goes. For now, I put it under 5.13 spoilers.

    To me there’s only one true bit of spoilage. Sarah’s as mistrusting of Quinn’s story as we could hope. She’s as mistrusting as Agent Walker has always been.

    And that brings up a new question. Will she be able to trust in Chuck – again?
    Oh, of course she will – but the question is how???

    • Jason says:

      Joe – maybe Jeff and Lester convince her?

    • MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

      FYI, the 5×09 and 5×11 promos have been removed from You Tube. I don’t know if that makes a much of a difference in the download and rendering time of this page.

    • thinkling says:

      Thanks, Joe. I couldn’t agree more. I loved seeing Sarah turn on Quinn. I’ll cheer again properly when I watch on Friday.

      Casey wearing rubber gloves and an apron that says World’s Best Dad, “Do you really think I’ve changed?” That may be his best line yet, and Casey probably has the longest life of one liners of anybody.

  56. Amron says:

    I found this…

    It’s not spoilery -except for the JEFFSTER! Performance…

    • joe says:

      Thanks, Amron. I hadn’t seen this.

      And Zac, if you happen to ever see this, the fans thank you right back. You’re an actor, and we know you’re capable of faking sincerity. But that’s the thing. You and Yvonne and all the rest on the show have made us believe for five years. You’ve let us believe, and that’s magical.

      I don’t think that’s going away any time soon.

  57. Here are some very very serious spoilers [ sneak peeks] for the BIG FINALE
    click at your own risk…

    http://www.tvedge.net/?p=26127

    Don’t say I didn’t warn you……………. just say’n

    • jam says:

      Those were already posted above.

      I’m pretty sure that what we see in them is actually more misleading than truly spoilery.

      • Just after Sarah throws him out the window – we get a quick shot of his fingers hanging onto the ledge….. [ I’m thinking:Throw Momma from the Train] he just won’t die that way… and after it happens about 3 or 4 times – it gets pretty funny.
        Every time Quinn shows up – he fights with Sarah – and she tosses him out a window!

      • MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

        Of course he survives. The rule is bad guys have to be impaled to really die.

        Sticky with the window motif, Sarah fights Quinn on a plane, throws him out the window without a parachute, and then has to jump after him because he has the Intersect glasses. Speaking of which, Sarah likes throwing a lot of things out the window: Quinn, Casey, iPhones, …

  58. FlamesofDestiny (someone had to use it...) says:

    I think the finale will take care of itself. Quinn is hammy good fun. The memory-loss thing will be resolved and we’ll either love it or hate it. (Or more accurately, some will love, some will hate, some will have hoped for something else.)

    It seems to me the BIG event will happen on Wednesday, when Sepinwall publishes the Season 3 part of his, er, epic, interview with Schwartz and Fedak. Since I am of the opinion that the original Chuck show ended with Colonel and that Ring was essentially the backdoor pilot of a NEW show that just happened to be called Chuck, too, I will be interested to know how much they will cop to now: WIll they admit that the original Season 3 is essentially non-canon, a kind of alternate universe, created when they really thought their only option was a totally different kind of TV show? Will they admit that Shaw, as a character, was a hasty paste job after they couldn’t get Bomer back as Bryce? Will they even admit that the Season 3 arc was planned with Bryce? Will they talk about whether the arc was cramped into 13 episodes after being planned for a “normal season” 22? Will they discuss whether we’re supposed to look at Honeymooners as the obvious “correct” path to follow from the train platform in Prague? Or will they hold out and insist that what we saw was all part of the “plan” for the show?

    Assuming they do a reasonable job ending the show (and that fans’ expectations are reasonable about what CAN be done, too…), I think the never-ending controversy about Season 3 is something Schwartz and Fedak should address well so that we can enjoy the totality of the show for years to come. And I don’t know how many shots we’ll get in the future to have these questions answered.

    My two cents, anyway…

    • joe says:

      Hi, Destiny. Welcome to the discussion, even at this late date.

      I’m not sure what you’re after. Some “admission” that S3 isn’t canon? I’m not sure how that works, because, by definition, what they produced is canon. Whether it was all planned on day T-1 or evolved that way because of the realities of putting on a TV show for 5 years without knowing when it will end or even how many episodes there’ll be in any given season and to do that on a shrinking budget – well, I’m glad it was them in charge and not me.

      I don’t think I’ll require an explanation. I’d rather thank them for what they accomplished, ya know?

      • FlamesofDestiny (someone had to use it...) says:

        You make it sound as if I want an admission of guilt. Far from it. I want information, which is what makes a fandom go.

        If you look at the Monday interview with Sepinwall, we learned A LOT: that the creators didn’t like the characters as portrayed in Helicopter; that the Kayla character was written out specifically because of the Levi-Strahovski chemistry; that they were gonna do “I know Kung Fu” at the end of the first season before the strike hit, etc…

        I’d just love the same kind of data on Season 3. I always thought it was strange that the fans would have expected the creators or talk about their work honestly while the show was still in production. Now is the time for the answers we have been seeking… But I have no interest in apologies… Honest.

        As for the canon issue, well, you know, I can give you the Star Trek cartoon show exception. (And I am NOT drawing a qualitative judgment, just pointing out that the creators of Star Trek specific omit a part of the thing they created.) As for Chuck, specifically, I have a feeling we’ve been watching more than one show called Chuck over the years. I’d be thrilled to know how the showrunners look at their creation.

    • Non Omnis Moriar says:

      Though I certainly agree with your sentiment about season three (I also consider Colonel as the last episode of the real Chuck) Fedak and Schwartz did admit during the ComicCon following the third season, that it wasn’t a good idea to place someone between Chuck and Sarah and that this was a learning moment for them. But I wouldn’t hold my breath if you’re waiting for them to admit that Shaw was a hasty replacement for Bryce. Don’t get me wrong, I think you’re right on the money with that assumption. But they will never admit to that I think. Personally I can say that the best thing about season three is that it’s all in the past so I can just pretend that it never happened.

    • Jason says:

      Destiny, I am with you on this, I have been intrigued by the Sepinwall interviews so far. The story behind the story is fascinating to me.

      Joe, here is why I think the s3 interviews, if honestly given and responded to will be noteworthy. Often in my life I have made decisions that have not turned out, really often actually. But, usually my decision making process was pretty valid at the time, given what I knew. But either I could let others know what I know hence the choice appeared stupid or I just plain and simply misjudged the circumstances. I’d be disappointed with anything resembling an apology. What I look forward to is the thought process that led to Lana and Clark invading the series Chuck.

  59. MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

    Random speculation question of less important things: For 5.12, do you think we’ll get the traditional opening credit sequence, a special one designed for the episode like Bullet Train, or a special tribute to five years sequence? I’m guessing 5.13 won’t have one like Ring II didn’t.

    • Amron says:

      I would love to watch the “special tribute option”… but I don’t think they will go with it.

    • atcDave says:

      Something special, but short would be my preference. Fedak has already said they kind of ran long, so maybe something abbreviated like the opening of Cliffhanger. Bonus points if they actually do a long cut for the DVD! (yeah I know, fat chance…)

    • thinkling says:

      What I would like: limited opening (alà Cliffhanger) for 5.12 and no intro or opening for 5.13 (like Ring2). That way we might get 2 extra minutes for the show. They seriously should have gotten Subway to be the sole sponsor with limited commercials. I’d like every minute we can get.

      That said I have no idea how they’ll do it.

      • MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

        Limited commercial interruption is normally because of extra money from the sponsor.

        The most well known case is The Masters golf tournament. The only sponsors are IBM, AT&T and ExxonMobil. Coverage averages 5 minutes of commercials per hour, although sponsor logos are around scoreboards and in the background (like Subway product placement). They also get sponsor tents at the event along with VIP passes, but that is presumably negotiated directly with the Masters, not with CBS.

        Other limited commercial interruption broadcasts are normally around season premieres. Alias’ series premiere had no commercials, but Nokia got ads before and after along with product placement during the show. (A Nokia phone was used as an important diversion.)

        USA has done it a few times for their shows like White Collar and Necessary Roughness. Presumably USA eats part of the cost because they are trying to grab an audience for a new show. They probably get the sponsors to cover the rest. When they promote the show, they say it will be brought to you with limited commercial interrupt by a company like Ford. In other words, Ford is buying show promotion time too. Show promotion is done a lot on USA, but rarely for Chuck on NBC, so that type of scheme would not have work. It also makes less sense for a finale.

  60. MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

    Sneak Peak #3 with Chuck and Morgan (who still has no verbal filter):
    http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/chuck-versus-sarah-series-finale-preview-nbc-284050

  61. ArmySFC says:

    Ryan McPartlin BTS Interview. CAUTION: if you don’t want to know how it ends with ellie and awesome don’t watch. also sarah’s memories and c/s for the most part.

    • ArmySFC says:

      can someone tell me how NOT to embed the videos?

      • joe says:

        Army, try using the a href= tags like in html.
        <a href=”YouTube Video URL Here in quotes”>Your words to describe the link</a>

      • MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

        Leave off the http:// when you paste the link (i.e start with www.)

        Thanks for posting these. http://www.youtube.com/user/ZacharyLeviFanDotCom also has Adam Baldwin, Mark Christopher Lawrence, and Joshua Gomez.

        So far, McPartlin’s seems the most spoilery. Baldwin’s has a spoiler, but fits with common speculation and doesn’t reveal the ending. Strahovski’s spoiler details an action sequence at a high level.

        I don’t know about Lawrence’s or Gomez’s yet.

      • MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

        The list I liked to on you tube has the full cast now. Lancaster’s and McPartlin’s are the least safe. Then Strahovski’s. Sahay’s has a minor spoiler. Gomez’s and Baldwin’s are only minor spoilers that match generally assumed speculation. Lawrence’s and Krinsky’s are safe.

        All of the spoiler questions are early in the videos, except for Baldwin’s. If you want sentimental stuff about what they’ll miss, thanking the fans, and evolution of the characters, but want to avoid the spoilers…
        Sahay: start at 0:45
        Strahovski: skip 0:22->1:45
        McPartlin: start at 0:52
        Lancaster: start at 0:16
        Gomez: start at 0:52
        Baldwin: skip 2:10->2:30
        Krinsky: safe
        Lawrence: safe

      • thinkling says:

        Hmm. Nice interviews. Not too far beyond current speculation.

        Yvonne echoed what I’ve been feeling (and said somewhere above) about the whole amnesia angle, only from her perspective as an actor. She said it’s sort of weird for her because she doesn’t get to play the character that she has developed over the years. (I’m paraphrasing.)

        See, that’s what’s making me sad. It’s like we’ve basically already said goodbye to Mr/Mrs Bartowski … that awesomely evolved married spy couple who have struggled with what they want their life to be and finally fleshed out their dream. As of right now, they’re gone. Yes, I think we’ll get them back by the end, but probably only briefly. I will miss them in the final. (That part just seems wrong to me on a purely emotional level, even though intellectually I get the potential coolness of the story) Will it be romantic to see Sarah fall for Chuck again and to see Chuck fight for her to win her back and get her memories back? Yes, but it feels sideways to me … and sad in advance. That’s why I say I would probably really like this story a lot as a mid season finale, or with a full episode after for them to bring down the big conspiracy.

        I hadn’t thought about it from Yvonne’s perspective, before. It has to be somewhat disappointing to have radically developed Sarah Walker (to the one we knew up until Bullet Train went sideways) and not be able to be that Sarah in the final episodes. Everybody else gets to be themselves (you know what I mean) and close out their characters over 2 episodes, except for Yvonne. Also whether it’s a good thing or not, it would have to be a challenge to play that nuance of, not pre-Chuck Sarah (like she did so well in Baby) or even S1 Sarah, but S5 Sarah with a mind-wipe back to pre Chuck. Weird, indeed! Makes me kind of sad for her.

        So, I do expect to be satisfied, but when Yvonne was talking, she exactly put her finger on why this finale doesn’t really grab me and why my anticipation is tinged with sadness (other than the obvious reason that it’s the last Chuck).

      • atcDave says:

        I also thought Yvonne’s interview was most illuminating, both for why she seemed less than thrilled with this story, and why some of our reactions were similar (although different as viewers, not participants). So we may see the S5 Charah at the very tail end again; but as a regular story element that time is already over. Sad.

      • armysfc says:

        Dave, Thinkling that’s the reason i said in another post it should have been done earlier in the season. to allow us to see the spy couple in action at least once more before the end. granted they may be working together but they won’t be as well, if that makes sense.

      • thinkling says:

        I said the same thing Army, speaking from the relationship angle, and I imagine you’re looking at it form the story angle.

        Yes, Dave, and that’s why I feel just a little bit robbed. I feel like Quinn stole something from me as well. It’s not about complaining so much as it grieving a loss before its time.

        I wonder if TPTB considered this particular ramification for the fans and for Yvonne? Having to say an early goodbye to a favorite story element?

        So that makes the Chuck and Sarah scenes we’ve gotten up till now even more special than we realized at the time.

      • armysfc says:

        Thinkling a mix of both actually. we talked at the end of 4 about a similar thing. i said i wanted a more mr and mrs smith thing, with out them trying to kill each other. i was hoping for a better story line than shaw being the big bad. from what we know so far i don’t think quinn was involved, that arc ended with shaw. for the all hype about he must be stopped, still wanna know why, lol. don’t get me wrong some eps were real good but for the arc itself, meh.

        the story seems ok so far, but would be better with them as themselves going after quinn.

      • thinkling says:

        Yeah, Army, I agree about the Omen arc. I liked every episode in the arc, and I still do. But the arc lost its current story value, when it turned out to be all about Shaw — a villain from two seasons ago who has been already been killed and arrested (in that order, oddly enough). The current story (the big government conspiracy manipulating their lives) wasn’t advanced at all by bringing Shaw back (unless they have something up their sleeves). Better to have made the omen plot –stealing all that data to make an Intersect 3.0– for a mysterious big bad, who would later be revealed to be Quinn. Again I stress that I still like the episodes in the arc, but the forward momentum of the spy story was lost. After Santa Suit I was looking around going where’d the story go?

      • armysfc says:

        Thinkling…i disagree, the big bad conspiracy wasn’t lost, it’s done. it was shaw, don’t ask me how, who pulled the strings. unless they pull something not revealed i’m sticking to that, lol. even YS says he’s the final villain. quinn, like i said before, is just a nut job/baby who’s pissed that chuck got the intersect and he didn’t. now he wants it and will do whatever he has to to get it.

      • atcDave says:

        I guess I’d been saying for a while that I expected Baby to be the last, best episode for me; at least since it became obvious that this finale arc would be a little darker than I prefer. I think that now realizing we’ve seen about the last of Sarah Walker as she became just makes me feel that way all the more strongly. Now I fully expect to enjoy the finale, just as I’ve enjoyed every finale; but my favorite part of my favorite show is already over. So that’s a little sad.

        As far as the Omen “grand conspiracy” goes; that has to be one of the most anti-climactic story lines in history. Was it really all to bring back one boring baddie that many of us had no interest in even the second time around? I would agree with Thinkling 100% on that one; each of the individual episodes was good or excellent. But the over-all impact was underwhelming. Of course, that’s sort of how Fulcrum and the Ring ended too. Oh well.

      • armysfc says:

        Dave…if you remember before the season or early on i said it would be best if they didn’t try such an involved arc like the omen. they haven’t done one well before so they just should have gone with more stand alone one’s. they seem to turn out well.

        i don’t like the direction the quinn arc is going for much the same reasons. now granted i don’t ship but now it seems the better SW is done for most of the finale. i’ll miss that dynamic it adds.

      • Jason says:

        Thinkling – when I posted after bullet train that the last funny Chuck and Sarah scene possible has happened, I think I meant ‘in spirit’ what you said, essentially that Sarah Bartowski is over for the show, you said it much better. Secondly, I felt ‘where is the show going’ after the baby episode, it was really that close to what I thought an end could be. Baby episode with the very first scene of Kept Man, only with the result positive, a hug and kiss, and call it a wrap. These last three episodes are not an ending that many of us (even professional reviewers have that attitude) wanted, but it looks like it will work out OK. The only real requirement I have for the ending is that I can re-watch them in the future without vomiting. I have only watched 3×17 thru 3×19 once in my life, I tried over xmas to watch the three, made it a few minutes in 17 before I stopped, funny, it wasn’t Shaw that made me stop, it was liar-liar pants on fire Chuck. I think 5×11 thru 5×13 be ok, won’t ruin the show, but unfortunately, they could have been so much more. TPTB simply do not want to tell that power couple saves the world tv show that many of us have been looking for since 4×1. That is essentially the way Zac described the future for the Bartowski’s in that 8 minute tape below, I only hope he meant it and that TPTB listen to him.

      • thinkling says:

        Again, Army, I don’t think so. The big bad conspiracy can’t have been Shaw. He in no way fits the criteria Decker listed in Cliffhanger or the briefing he gave to the mysterious committee in The Zoom.

        Either the conspiracy was traded for Shaw (bad choice), or it will yet be revealed in the last episode in some way. Either way they over promised and undelivered on the big conspiracy story which could/should have been a very compelling way to wrap up the show and the Bartowski story.

      • armysfc says:

        Thinkling…all true i suppose. if quinn doesn’t have a tie in or it comes out who is then it was all for naught. on that we can agree i think.

        the main reason i think it stopped at shaw is there has been no mention again about it. my thinking it was shaw is because he was blackmailing decker (if memory serves). powerful men/women in movies/TV always do crazy stuff to protect what they have. remember it was decker that told chuck everything and presented it to the group of people. he did hold some power if he was at the same level as beckman (or close) he could have done all that on shaws orders. thats my fanwank anyway.

      • thinkling says:

        Army, the conspiracy talk that Decker listed off in Cliffhanger predated Shaw, even including Agent X, so Shaw could not have been the PM that Decker alluded to. In the end of The Zoom, Decker said that his superiors interference in Chuck’s life was only beginning, that Chuck was special and had to fail. Non of that could describe Shaw.

        Shaw was a side show, someone who found a stooge strictly for a personal agenda.

        If they try to say that all the conspiracy talk was always about Shaw, then they will have shredded their own setup. Like I said. They can trade it for Shaw or dump the whole conspiracy, but they can’t credibly say that it was about Shaw all along. It just won’t fly.

      • armysfc says:

        thinkling very true on all of that and i agree. this is not a argument BTW. the main point you bring up is what decker said. his tale as you will. now look at quinn and sarah. isn’t he on a smaller scale doing the same thing? other than what decker says, has there been other proof? decker could have just been a lying dog about it all. remember shaw had the details on emma, so he had more info in his intersect than chuck ever did. didn’t they say at one time that all spies lie?

        but you are probably right.

      • thinkling says:

        Yeah, Army, I suppose that’s a possible explanation, but in the long run, it’s really a flagrant violation of their setup. Plus at the time in the story, they had uncovered a pretty massive reason for the conspiracy … Agent X.

        At the time Cliffhanger was written, I really don’t think they had plans to bring back Shaw. I don’t think they had thought that far ahead, let alone crafted a conspiracy theory to allow them to being him back.

        Whatever, happened, the entire conspiracy plot (or the season’s focus on it) was sacrificed so they could bring back an irrelevant character that most people didn’t like (I have a gift for understatement) or want to see again.

      • ArmySFC says:

        thinkling one good thing about shaw, he gave up the baby info, lol. yeah he was a waste that didn’t need to come back.

      • Jason says:

        Army / Think – If the big conspiracy is still hanging out there, it almost has to be the folks who tortured Quinn, because Quinn essentially was captured and tortured all of season one, wasn’t he?

        Isn’t there some really old dude who tweeted a picture from 5×13 of him and Yvonne both dressed up in formal garb? I wonder if he turns out to be the puppet master. If so, he might be in one or two scenes max, which would be an odd payoff to the big conspiracy plot. Sort of like 3 small conspiracy plots instead, Shaw’s, Quinn’s, and the puppetmasters?

        I think it is possible that it just is going to be Quinn, and his motives have already been revealed, and any plot holes left with Decker and Shaw will remain such. Quinn seems very ‘small’ for an epic series ending villain, he would seem like a great nemisis for Morgan to take out, or maybe even Alex, but not Team B.

      • thinkling says:

        Jason, I’ve been puzzling about where Quinn might fit in, if there even still is a big conspiracy. So here’s a scenario that I think might fit the stuff we know.

        The PM and his group go all the way back to Hartley and the original Intersect. They wanted to control the Intersect for their own ends, whether political or financial, probably both. They would have sabotaged/hijacked the Intersect to create Volkoff and manipulate world affairs and money through Volkoff Industries. In Quinn, they had the perfect candidate to be the new Intersect host for their purposes.

        Some other group in the CIA also wants the Intersect, but for nobler ends. Chuck is being used (like his father before him) to further the Intersect project. This group would be the superiors (interfering in Chuck’s life) that Decker refers to in The Zoom. Chuck is special and must fail in order for the evil conspiracy is to succeed.

        When the good guys diverted the Intersect to Chuck, Quinn lost his chance to be the big CIA hero, albeit for the wrong side. The PM still used Quinn, though sans Intersect and not as an agent. Quinn was burned as an agent and set up as head of a “private” spy company that worked for all the groups that were an extension of the big conspiracy.

        Quinn and Chuck are both pawns, Quinn for the bad guys and Chuck for the good guys. The showdown between Quinn and Chuck will determine which side wins the battle. Chuck obviously needs to bring down the conspiracy to be free from the Intersect conspiracy and its unwelcome intrusion in his life.

        Truthfully I think our chances of seeing the conspiracy in the finale are slim. If there still is a big conspiracy, I have no idea how they’ll explain it, but that’s how I would play it at this point.

      • MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

        Interesting spec, Thinkling.

        A variation of that option is after defeating Quinn, Chuck and Sarah realize the conspirators are still out there. They might discover some of what you are talking about, but don’t have the opportunity to take them out, yet. They could choose to put their dreams on hold until the conspirators are no longer a threat to their potential family. They say “Goodbye” as they leave for a long term mission. In other words, the pawns become knights. They make the decision together and acknowledge that all they really need to be happy is to be together. Their white picket fence future is still waiting for them.

        YS would consider that “slightly tragic” because they are not getting their dreams now, but still might get them in the future. It would also fit with the continuing adventures idea that Fedak likes. It would provide a plot for the online movie that ZL wants.

      • jam says:

        “YS would consider that “slightly tragic” because they are not getting their dreams now, but still might get them in the future.”

        Yvonne said it was the lead up part that was “slightly tragic”, with that I think she was referring to what happened in the Bullet Train and things that follow it… not the very end. I still think they get their picket fence, they’ve been focusing too much on that house and their desire for normalcy this season just to throw it away.

        As for the Good Bye… I think it’s referring mostly to Ellie & Awesome (definitely), Casey (maybe), the Buy More (likely) and us.. the fans (sniff).

    • ArmySFC says:

      Yvonne EPK

    • joe says:

      Here’s the Sarah Lancaster Interview

  62. ChipLecsap says:

    dkd says:
    January 23, 2012 at 7:55 pm
    Another thing I’d like to see again is some sexual tension.

    Fully Agreed!!!!.
    But I tel you what is my realy problem with these Sarah may be fall in love Chuck again. She took 3 year to let Him between her legs, now I need to beleive, that 2 episode is enough for chuck ? :S. However, as you said, in these scenario, Chuck is now more liek Bryce, so Chuck is alos the Super spy too, sow how now, may be there will be some thing that Sarah will remember, and that will help her to let Chuck got to Her.
    But you knwoi I was soem very specific Ideas, about how the Chuck vs Sarah, wil be, i tought the fight will be in the 5.12, just like the you realy love me scene, and I tought that is may be the turning point, but if the Ellie and Chuck behinde scene, is from 5.13, then, may be Sarah beat up, chuck after, the you realy love me scene ? ! :S.
    But we shall see, But I agreed, i hope some good sexual tension. may be even a make up sex between them 🙂
    But I need to say out side of the lack of Sexuality between chuck and Sarah, wich is, not the fault of they are togetther,. simple just Fedak, dont want to give them those , moments, but otside ot this, I actually, realy love Chuck and Sarah since they are together, I have ni problem wiht them, I knwo if they would not be together, I probaly would quit long time ago. But because I fan of them, I still here, even if the season 4 was not that good, for some people, or season 5 , but it still much mor fun for me than season 3 also :).
    But my final judgment have to wait, until the series is over 🙂

    • jam says:

      I honestly don’t understand complaints about “lack of sexual tension” between Chuck and Sarah, they’re acting very much like young married couples in love do. We don’t really need to see what they do under the covers.

      And if by “tension” you mean things like silly jealousies or similar insecurities… no thanks, I very much prefer what we got.

  63. andyt says:

    Hello all, as we enter the final week. I will probably not be checking into the blog much. I want to go into the finale as little spoiled as possible. Also, it is sad enough that Chuck is ending, emotionally for me it would be best not to think to much about it until Friday night. Chuck is one of those rare shows that sucked me in and was more than just entertainment and comfort food. I watched and re-watched episodes from Season 1 on Blu in the weeks after my mother passed away, and I truly believe it helped to keep up my spirits. I have been with Chuck since the very first day in September 07, so it is an old friend saying goodbye.

    As a positive though, I was on the Buffy boards during the last days of that show,and it is ok. Hopefully a new show, or book, or movie comes along that creates this kind of emotional investment. I know many here feel that will be impossible, but I got Chuck a few years after Buffy and Angel so it can happen. Talk to you all after 10 pm Friday

  64. MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

    Ernie, that last post was all kinds of cool, but then you removed it. Not cool.

    • joe says:

      Not to speak for Ernie, but I’m sure it’ll be there soon, Jeff. More than once, I’ve hit the “publish” button when I meant to hit the “preview” button and long before an article was ready.

      “I just hate it when that happens!” 😉

    • Non Omnis Moriar says:

      Yeah, I was wondering where it went. I was really looking forward to commenting on that as I vehemently disagree with almost anything he wrote in that essay.

    • Ernie Davis says:

      Sorry, premature posting. It wasn’t quite ready and I wanted to find a picture for the top. I also didn’t want to step on Faith’s post, so I’ll post later today and you can stick pins in me then.

  65. ChipLecsap says:

    E online Chuck Stars Talk Series Finale
    with all these Baby talk, I would be very sad if she won’t be pregnant :).
    But I would be happy, wiht a Flashforward too Also very funny, that Zac and I have a same idea about how it could end the show, wiht that Comic book reference 🙂

  66. ChipLecsap says:

    link

    • Aerox says:

      This interview is painful to watch. Mostly because of Zac and how hard he tries to get Yvonne’s attention… and how hard she ignores him.

      Baldwin owned it though.

      “Are you taking anything from the set?”
      *whips out MASSIVE knife*

      • joe says:

        My interpretation is a bit different, Aerox. Yvonne does look very fatigued to me, though. I’d guess that this was just after a long day/week of shooting and they were all tired, Yvonne in particular.

      • atcDave says:

        We know she’d been the most emotional about things too; she was likely very drained. They all seemed like comfortable old friends to me. Funny too that Yvonne was apparently the only one who didn’t want her character killed off; kind of goes back to what Thinkling has been saying about her looking at things more like the viewers than the rest of the cast does. Although to be fair, there was likely a lot of kidding around going on at that moment, Baldwin may have been the only one who meant it.

      • joe says:

        I’ll bet you’re right about Adam, Dave.

        Heh – he doesn’t get enough credit for his sense of humor and quick wit, does he?

      • lappers84 says:

        LMAO. They were all campaigning to die. Apart from Yvonne.

      • jam says:

        I think you’re heavily misinterpreting there Aerox.

        Lovely video, they all look tired, sad and happy at the same time.

      • lappers84 says:

        And apparently drunk as well. LOL.

      • MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

        In most group interviews, it seems like Zac dominates, Josh banters with Zac, and Yvonne is almost mute letting the guys have the floor. I’m glad she was a little drunk and/or Zac made an effort to include her because she talked more.

      • thinkling says:

        Great group interview … and again very illuminating, as Yvonne’s solo interview was.

        When they were asked if there were any twists and turns, the guys were all looking at each other, going um, … nah … no, we don’t think so … there’s no twists or turns really. Then Yvonne piped up and said, “We should say that there is something pretty dramatic going on between Chuck and Sarah. There is something that weighs heavy on the relationship, and it’s hard. It’s very hard, and it’s kind of a little bit sad.” Then Zach returns to the full circle theme, “Circumstances are such that audience members will feel like we’ve come full circle with the show.”

        To me this shows a difference in the mindset between Fedak and fans. From other things that Zach has said, I gather he thinks a lot like Fedak. Yvonne, seems to think more like fans. I say that as a shipper, but I also just think that Yvonne seems to anticipate and empathize with the emotions that fans will feel. Fedak and Zach are focused on creative coolness … how cool the story is from the creators perspective, and they have a bit of a blind spot as to how it will make fans feel. I think that’s normal from the creative end of things, but it’s also what gives us the feeling that Schwedak are a little out of touch with the fans sometimes.

        Fedak has talked about what he wanted creatively … to revisit all the seasons, not just S5. So the focus is on how cool the reset will be with a trip down memory lane (pun intended), and the emotional impact of grief and loss is overlooked. I know Fedak has said that it’s an emotional finale, but I get the feeling he’s speaking more from the full-circle-nostalgia he’s created. Yvonne, because it’s her character that has been destroyed, loses everything she’s created for 5 years, in much the same way that Sarah loses 5 years. Therefore she feels intensely what we will feel, not just through her character, but for herself. What weighs heavy on the relationship, weighs heavy on her personally, in a way that it just doesn’t on the other actors. It’s no wonder she had the reaction she did when she opened the script. Her warnings of sadness to come are personal … and that comes through a little bit in her interviews, even though it’s probably not supposed to.

        I’m very glad to be forewarned. It will make it a little bit easier to watch.

      • MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

        Man of the YS interviews have made me think she was convinced the end was going to involve a pregnancy and a white picket fence. Having a completely unrelated dramatic plot with new types of action sequences surprised her. Everyone else was simply expecting a wild and crazy ending with a lot going on because that’s what the show always does. She has said in several interviews that she has enjoyed getting into the comedy side of the show. This plot takes her away from it, which is another reason she might be a little disappointed.

      • atcDave says:

        Great observations Thinkling and Jeff; I know I was fishing around to try to figure out what to say about how different Yvonne’s perspective is from “the boys”, and I think you two really nailed it.
        She sure seemed to want kids for Sarah!

      • joe says:

        Easy, folks. Your opinions are welcome here too, but let’s keep them about the show and not about each other, hum?

      • atcDave says:

        We normally don’t censor comments here; but a couple of comments are getting too personal and hostile. We don’t attack each other here either. I’ve removed the offending comment(s). Sometimes things get heated; it comes with loving the show the way we all do, but let’s try not to take our differences out on each other.

        And for the record, some of what I took down was not offensive, but did directly address the offending post. I appreciate the co-operation and community feeling we often have here, and I appreciate our guests looking out for each other and for the integrity of this site. Please send us a feedback comment if anything comes up that one of us principals needs to look at.

      • Carlos says:

        I believe that the comment by Aerox was malicious in nature and i am entitled to my opinion. But whatever.

  67. lappers84 says:

    Damn it, why does this new information make me feel like Sarah won’t really get her memory back, but she will learn to love Chuck again. I’d be pretty disappointed if she didn’t at least get the 5 years of Chuck memories back.

    • jam says:

      What new information? Did you watch Ryan Mcpartlin’s interview?

      • Alf says:

        His interview by far is the most spoilery . If you want to be surprised I would recommend not watching it

      • jam says:

        Indeed, he pretty much spoils what happens to Chuck & Sarah and Awesome & Ellie. The end result, not how it happens.

        I think it kinda also reveals why the finale is called what it is.

    • lappers84 says:

      Although actually I’m more worried we won’t get to see the Bartowskis dancing the tango, but instead Chuck Bartowski and Sarah Walker. I would have loved to see the power couple that they are rule the dancefloor. Maybe I’m worrying for nothing – they probably will still rule the dancefloor, but I fear the mindset will be all off.

      • McNugget says:

        could almost be better this way though . There could be a lot of sexual tension involved . Sarah a little unsure and Chuck bringing the intensity .

        Though I wonder if they play it more like in True Lies with with Arnold and Tia , with Morgan and Casey in the van in Tom Arnold’s and that other guys spot . That could be funny too . I hope it’s the latter though .

      • lappers84 says:

        It probably will work out fine. It’s just the last time Chuck and Sarah tangoed (or dance during a mission) was in Angel De la Muerte – and they were both in a weird place, now we finally get a dance scene with them as a married couple (but she doesn’t even remember) – kind of ruins it a little bit.

      • lappers84 says:

        Personally I’d rather see it as Arnold and Jamie at the end of the film – when their dancing.

      • atcDave says:

        Yeah Lappers I totally agree about the dancing. I was mentioning a few weeks ago how we’ve never had an actual happy couple dancing on this show; it’s always, only been when there was a lot of tension in the air. So sad, so boring.

  68. MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

    TV Guide part 2 is up:
    http://www.tvguide.com/News/Chuck-Finale-Countdown-Sarah-1042152.aspx
    It sounds like someone has started some nasty rumors that don’t make sense in the context of the E! interview and the discussions about potential online movie.
    There are some spoiler hints by Levi near the end about the reason for the title “Goodbye.”
    At the very end Gomez makes a reference to fan fiction.

    • lappers84 says:

      The WT/WT hint in the second half of the finale??? Really?? I honestly don’t like the sound of that too much. We might still get the S5 couple back, but as already mentioned on her probably not until the last 1 minute of the series – if at all.

    • jam says:

      There was some talk about Chuck dying in the finale but it was all just speculation, not really even a rumor… and naturally not true at all.

      It was already revealed that Sarah will get her memories back. Naturally I’d like that to happen early on but, as long as it’s not the final minute, preferably at least like 15 minutes before the end I think I’ll be ok.

    • esardi says:

      Jeff this is more confirmation to me that they are planning to ride this out until the end. An all too familiar rushed ending. From what I gathered from the article it could very easily be a situation where you do not know if she is going to leave until the end.

      If it goes down that way it will be sad. All their hopes and dreams will once again be placed in the backburner as we will not know until the end whether they stay together or not. It really is too bad that they did not have another episode. That way we could have had the satisfaction that Honeymooners brought.

      Instead of a Mr. and Mrs. Smith fight the bad guy, you will get agent Walker and a more competent nerd. Not the way I envisioned it.

  69. Noticed something interesting in Yvonne’s interview – the television screens in the background at the BuyMore all show a scene of people waving goodbye to a cruise ship. Over the years, they have often done the same to tie in the BuyMore to the episode – and the one they were shooting during the interview is Chuck vs The Goodbye.

    • thinkling says:

      Nice catch, Peter.

      • sd says:

        Speaking of tie ins and callbacks which these last two episodes seem to have a lot of…I am trying to remember the episode in seasons past where the Awesomes have a hit a bit of a rough patch (romantic spark wise) and Ellie asks Chuck how he and Sarah (his pretend g’friend at the time) keep the magic alive…and Chuck grimaces and says something to the effect “I have to woo her over and over and over again.” Perhaps this memory story-line is that callback—the dark version? Ha!

      • Wilf says:

        It’s in Chuck Versus The Seduction, about 1/5 of the way in.

    • MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

      I’ve always loved the TV screen tie-ins. They had Casablanca during the Ilsa scenes and Venice scenes during the Godfather homages at the end of season 2. Sometimes it’s just images that match where the mission is. It’s a nice touch.

  70. Anyone else get a chance to read the first two parts of the HitFix interview with Schwartz and Fedak?
    http://www.hitfix.com/blogs/whats-alan-watching/posts/chuck-vs-the-retrospective-interview-part-2
    – its a good thing that they are essentially writers – because its painful to try and understand what they have said….. now I know why we haven’t had a voiceover sound track during one of the DVDs…. they never really get to the point…. not much in the way of specific meaningful content…
    but its a nice window into the creative process of the show.

    • MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

      A lot of interesting stuff. I like DVD commentaries where the people start talking about random stuff that pops in their heads because they are normally really funny.

      “basically after the Orange Orange change we didn’t have enough dough to build another new set.”
      😦 Changing the cover every year would have been fun.

      “The idea that we kept talking about was she was going to become an HR person at the Buy More because I really liked her having to do sexual harassment instruction with Jeff and Lester, ”
      That would’ve been great.

      NBC’s budget cuts killed Milbarge. But he might have come back as an evil twin with an eye patch.

  71. ChipLecsap says:

    Do not watch it The SUPER SPOILERY Canadian promo!!!!

  72. ChipLecsap says:

    I warned all of you 🙂

    • MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

      Warning was the right thing to do, but thank you for posting the link anyway.

      If I were to guess, most of the clips appear to be from 5.12. But there is a very big spoiler near the end.

      • ArmySFC says:

        and if you think about it it could be in 12 also.

      • joe says:

        You mean, who’s donning the glasses? Maybe. I could see a scenario where that might be extremely misleading, though.

      • MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

        Army, you’re right it could be in either. The rest seemed more like 5.12. Joe, yes I was thinking it could be be a red herring. Good spoilers get you excited while making you wonder what is really going on.

      • ArmySFC says:

        i just don’t see the whole trying to kill chuck going into 13. i see it as the last scene of 12. then again i could be way off, lol. 13 i suspect is them working together to get quinn, then the wrap up parts.

      • JC says:

        I really hope that shot at the end of the promo isn’t a fake out.

    • jam says:

      I assume you’re referring to the very last scene in that clip. 🙂

      • MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

        yep. Yesterday, I was convinced by something I read that the opposite would happen. Now I’m not sure. Tomorrow, I’ll probably be convinced the other way again.

        I don’t mind spoilers for shows I know I’m going to watch multiple times anyway. And a lack of surprise helps me follow what is going on rather than sitting in a shocked stupor missing everything.

    • Never was very good at heeding warnings. 😉
      Thanks for the link and leaving it up to us.

    • esardi says:

      Ha, what I suspected all along came to fruition. Thanks ChipLecsap..

    • dkd says:

      Wow. How long has it been since we’ve seen a Canadian promo. As bad as NBC can be sometimes with the spoilers, nothing tops the Canadians as I recall from the old days when we saw them regularly.

  73. ChipLecsap says:

    well I guess, Casey with the Sniper rifle, and with that Line, is also a big spoiler, :). This gona be reyl a Hard heartbroken episode, in every level.

    • esardi says:

      ChipLecsap, you are right. I suspected a beat down by Sarah on Chuck; however, it is much harder when you have to watch it. I am sure it would be heart breaking if you saw a Chuck not fighting back telling her she is his wife and saying I love you while she keeps hitting him. That is what I feared would probably happen and why Yvonne stated that she did not know how they were going to fix it.

      We all know that they will, it is just hard to watch something like that. Episode 5.12 maybe real hard to watch for me.

      • atcDave says:

        I also am not really looking forward to 5.12. I think the big fight will be awful to watch. I am sooooo glad we will see 5.13 immediately after!

      • Jason says:

        I was considering skipping 5×12, watching 5×13 live then immediately rewatching both if what I see in 5×13 will mollify the unhappy, ugly, nasty, mean spirited story being told in 5×12. I think 5×13 will be good enough to make 5×12 tolerable. The reason I will skip 5×12, is I don’t want it to ruin 5×13 for me. I want my first impression of 5×13 to be in a favorable mindset.

      • atcDave says:

        I wouldn’t go that extreme Jason but I agree with the sentiment. 5.12 has the potential to be a new least favorite episode. But I do feel compelled to watch, and with 5.13 immediately following I think it won’t be so bad.

      • Katsumaro says:

        I’m gonna watch the heck out of 5.12. I wanna get a sense of the whole rollercoaster ride, and the journey to the very end. I’ve never skipped an episode yet! 😀

      • lappers84 says:

        I think the end of 5×12 will see Chuck getting through to her somehow – then 5×13 will be them teaming up again to finish Quinn off – hopefully leaving about 15 or so minutes to wrap it all up for good.

      • ArmySFC says:

        intersecting points all. we all have a good idea about what’s going to happen at some point over the next 2 eps. during the preseason if you will we talked a lot about the up coming year. several people including me voiced our concerns about them having a specific end date to the show. that knowing it was over they would be able to tell their story with out worrying about fan reactions to it. this amnesia arc is not being killed as bad as morgansect was but it’s close. i personally wouldn’t chosen either one simply because it has had a negative affect on fans.

        the tearing down of a relationship in order to move a plot line forward bothers me quite a bit. pitting the couple against each other in what amounts to a slaughter is almost as sick as the abuse sarah has endured this season. i guess the old adage, be careful what you wish for is true after all. we all wanted to see what type of product they could put out if they had the exact number of episodes they needed. this year has been fun up until now but what lurks ahead won’t kill the season but it will lessen it somewhat. if the ending eps are as dark as they seem with the light coming at the end and quickly, that could leave a bad taste in the mouth of some fans.

        i have to ask this question. if they knew they had a shot a renewal, would they still gone this way? it seems on a very small scale what happened in s3 when they tore down the c/s relationship they had already built is what they are doing now. they saw the out cry from that, why do something like that again? it makes no sense to me.

      • lappers84 says:

        I think Army – It’s not so much the arc that’s troubling but more the fact that it’s come right at the end when there’s no chance of being able to properly resolve the issue. Had this been at a different point (or we did indeed have a back order) – then we would still be a little apprehensive about the arc but would know it would be solved efficiently with that knowledge of having more episodes.

      • joe says:

        This is pure speculation, Army, but I think they would have gone this route (or something very similar) regardless of renewal. Like Yvonne said, season 6 would very easily have been the pregnancy arc, and if there had been more than 13 episodes, I suspect that what we saw happening to Sarah this season would have been nothing compared to the idea of a child of C&S being at risk.

        And as hard as it might be to contemplate, that would have been in the offing.

      • lappers84 says:

        I would have liked to have seen this arc begin a little sooner – take out Kept Man or change the actual point of the story to accommodate this final Arc so there would be a little more time to resolve it.

      • ArmySFC says:

        Joe the child thing i doubt very much. they could have gone after baby clara this year and didn’t, or made the baby ep way different. those stories never play well an i think they are smart enough to avoid that at all cost.

      • atcDave says:

        I actually have some extremely harsh thoughts about the wisdom of this arc. I’m trying to focus on the fact all will end well and it sounds like I may like 5.13 quite a bit. But no doubt if I were renewing this show, the first thing I would do is fire Fedak. I hate to even say that as I don’t think its in keeping with what my mood and attitude ought to be at this point in time. And I truly do appreciate the beautiful setting, world and characters the original creative team came up with. But S5 reached a good place; and if I were with the studio or network I would want a show runner in place who would actually honor what had been achieved and doesn’t feel the need to “blow everything up” every season.

        Now we haven’t even seen the episode yet, so it really isn’t appropriate to pursue this line of thought too far. But there’s a good chance I’ll come back to it after Friday. There’s also a good chance I’ll want to take back most of what I just said. I’m not afraid to admit if I’m wrong.

    • lappers84 says:

      Guess it’s a good thing we won’t have to wait a week for the finale then isn’t it. I think we’d all explode before we got there.

      • esardi says:

        Lappers I could not agree with you more. Could you imagine how this site and others would react after watching the next to last episode with Sarah beating Chuck severely! Talk about needing several more pages! (LOL) This place and others around would explode with the outcry.

        As it is expect some real negative feedback on 5.12.

      • lappers84 says:

        Absolutely, but since it is going to be followed quickly by 5×13 I’m not sure how much time we’ll have to comment on it – because I can imagine it being an episode that works really well with Goodbye.

  74. ChipLecsap says:

    You know what would be my dream line and moment. right before that moment wiht Chuck , He should say this “it’s hard to say goodbye” . it would be AWESOME!!!!

  75. uplink2 says:

    I’m going to propose that the last shot in that promo occurs BEFORE the one in the US promo. He changes his mind.

    • MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

      That would explain the words in the US promo. It could also be a second set, fakes, or the ones from Bank of Evil. That gives us about 5 possibilities–the kind of spoiler I like.

      • uplink2 says:

        I think Chuck changes his mind because those words only appear on the glasses AFTER they have been put on. I think he then realizes his mistake and takes them off before it actually happens. Maybe its because that is what I want to happen but I think it really fits the video much better.

      • ArmySFC says:

        he looks pretty determined in the scene. i’ve just never seen anyone be able to take them off once there on. you could be right as well. we will know friday.

    • ChipLecsap says:

      IT’s always amazed me, how some of the people are capable to over thinking even the most obvious things, :S

      • MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

        I said 5 possibilities. My attempt at an obscure list left out the obvious one. As a rule, I think promo creators are evil, so I always expect them to mislead, even when they don’t.

      • atcDave says:

        Promo writers (editors?) absolutely try to mislead. Chuck ending up with the Intersect again is not an unlikely outcome, but there are other possibilities and we don’t KNOW yet.

    • ArmySFC says:

      how would that happen? on before off? my bet is still after. i don’t remember there ever being an on/off switch.

      jeff you could be right as well. i’m still going with the obvious one as the tragic thing that happens to them. once it’s done their chance for a normal life goes with it and that’s the loss they suffer. RM hints at it in his interview.

      • jam says:

        “The tragic thing” is Sarah’s memory loss. After it’s fixed there’s no reason why they couldn’t live their lives normally like they wanted to.

      • esardi says:

        I just do not think you can take it off once you put it off until it is finished. Of course if Jeff is right then we misread the whole thing.

      • ArmySFC says:

        Jam, in one of the first interviews YS says that a slightly tragic thing happens to them during the finale. i’m saying the memory loss has already happened and it’s something else she is referring to. i could be wrong however.

      • atcDave says:

        I don’t think re-Intersecting is “tragic”. An extra burden sure; but Chuck and Sarah were completely ready to be happy together both WITH and WITHOUT the Intersect throughout S4. So yeah, I think the “tragic thing” has already happened. And remember it was “almost, slightly” tragic. So we can know the outcome of this; things will be okay in spite of a rough road ahead.

      • jam says:

        Army, Yvonne said that a while back and it was always pretty clear in my mind that she considers the last 2 episodes (and the end of “Bullet Train”) a single entity. When she’s talking about the tragic thing, the loss Chuck and Sarah will suffer she’s referring to Sarah’s memory issues.

      • ArmySFC says:

        Jam, makes sense.

      • I don’t know jam. The memory loss being slightly tragic is a little too neat and tidy and we all know this show doesn’t do neat and tidy.
        I think the depth of that loss, and the actions, reactions and consequences could be the tragic piece (and for the record, I believe that Yvonne’s use of “slightly” was her way of softening the blow).
        I wouldn’t be surprised if we see Graham’s Wild Card enforcer in all her glory (if that’s what you want to call it) and her acting that role with TeamB. I wouldn’t be surprised if she is accusing Chuck of stealing her memories (in the promo). And I certainly would not be surprised if it lasted the entire hour.

      • atcDave says:

        Peter I think that’s all part of the tragedy already in motion. More than you said, she will at some point try to kill Chuck. So the tragedy is an unfolding event that will last all of 5.12. But we’ve already seen what it is, or what sets it in motion. Nothing will happen in 5.12 that can’t be fixed by Sarah regaining her memories. Actually even better, I think the relationship will mostly be restored during 5.13 before all the memories are returned.

      • Well – tragic could actually be very tragic!!!!
        Sarah [ without her memories] kills someone she suspects to be bad/evil…. or just someone that gets in her way…… without those memories – anything is possible.

    • dkd says:

      The “will or won’t Chuck re-intersect” question has been weighing on my mind as I speculate the finale and list out what are my remaining questions. I can imagine a couple of scenarios where Chuck might do it.

      1. Someone he cares about does indeed die and he’s reacting to that.
      2. Quinn succeeds in uploading a good Intersect, making him a more formidable enemy. We’ve seen that Quinn is nearly impossible to kill without one. With one, I could see Chuck given incentive to even the odds of beating/killing Quinn in the end.
      3. All of the above.

      If you look at Chuck as he’s holding the glasses in the NBC promo, he appears very out of breath and stressed as if he’s just been through something emotional. They are on a roof wearing the same clothes as they are wearing in the concert hall scenes.

      Also, it would play into the “back to square one” stuff all the cast and Fedak have been teasing.

      • ArmySFC says:

        very good ideas. kind of goes with the one i had. 2 sets of glasses on already used, sarah’s you really do love me is after one set is used (ellies). small talk about dangerous quinn and other bad guys, chuck being special, chuck uses second set. life goes on.

      • dkd says:

        I speculate that the concert hall stuff is early in the second half of 513 and the “Chuck holding the glasses” scene occurs around that time. I’m thinking Germany is the final showdown. But, I could change my mind on the order tomorrow.

      • ArmySFC says:

        DKD my thought also. by doing it before they enter the concert hall it would help him with the tango, lol.

      • lappers84 says:

        If you’re suggesting that Sarah could have her memories back by that point then perhaps we get to enjoy the husband and wife dance after all.

      • ArmySFC says:

        i am. if it happens around the mid point of the second hour. i’m on board with berlin and the concert hall being the final battle. the reference to the man who knew to much and all that. plus the jeffster singing and the EPK reference to the concert hall. so i do think it’s possible. they have time to work as a team from there and then wrap it up. 5-10 to take out quinn and 10-15 to do the wrap up. time is based on ep time not real time BTW. that will be the last 20+ minutes i think.

      • dkd says:

        Sarah doesn’t have to have her memories back yet. She could just be working with the team because she realizes they are the “good guys”. It could be part of her “falling for Chuck again” phase.

        I don’t think the concert hall is in Germany. I think it is in LA. Beckman is there in her uniform. I can’t imagine Team B would fly Jeffster to Germany. I think Germany is a different set piece.

      • ArmySFC says:

        ahh ok, thanks.

      • MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

        The BTS video says where the concert hall is.

      • ArmySFC says:

        heard the name but was hard to understand, no location though. from the name i can guess however, so thanks.

  76. jam says:

    http://chucktv.net/2012/01/24/chuck-final-countdown-zachary-levi-joshua-gomez/

    A couple of new comments from Zac and Josh. I liked what Zac said about the Lost finale. 🙂

  77. “I actually have some extremely harsh thoughts about the wisdom of this arc. I’m trying to focus on the fact all will end well and it sounds like I may like 5.13 quite a bit. But no doubt if I were renewing this show, the first thing I would do is fire Fedak. I hate to even say that as I don’t think its in keeping with what my mood and attitude ought to be at this point in time.”
    ~Dave,
    well, that’s nearly the feeling I had as we plodded our way through season 3…..
    Its just like a coach or general manager. Just because the guy built the team – or had a couple good seasons – is no reason to believe he’ll still able get the job done.
    I’m still not convinced that the creators understand the show the same way as most of the fans.
    We’ve had this argument/ discussion before: regarding giving the fans what they want….. or is it written in stone that the audience just sit back and let the story unfold until the very end, trusting that we’ll be satisified…. I’m not sure ~ maybe there’s room for both.

    • MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

      There’s a bit of a problem with the coach/general manager metaphor. Fedak is a co-creator and executive producer. It’d be almost like firing Jerry Jones from his general manager job when he’s the owner of the Cowboys. Wonderland Sound and Vision and Fake Empire Productions are owned by McG, Stephanie Savage, and Josh Schwartz, so it is possible. The third producer, WB, would have to apply considerable pressure. All of this assumes Fedak doesn’t have an unfavorable buyout clause in his contract because he’s co-creator.

      They would have to have a new showrunner in mind. As much as people complain about Fedak, there are very few shows like Chuck out there. A new showrunner might turn the show into something unrecognizable–all angst, all spoof comedy, or something boring like Undercovers. Most shows don’t survive showrunner changes.

      • atcDave says:

        For now the issue is moot anyway. I’m mainly frustrated at what strikes me as a foolish chance to take on a finale arc. Not that there’s any shortage of lousy finales that get made. And as I said, if he pulls this off I’ll be very pleased. I actually get more annoyed with him in his interviews than anything. Maybe he should just be banned from speaking to the press…

      • MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

        Ha. A lot of people should NEVER be put in front of a microphone. Most of them run for political office. At my old company, whenever the (now ex-)CEO spoke, the stock price dropped. Greenblatt and Fedak should be grouped with them.

      • atcDave says:

        No doubt!

      • MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

        Just to amend what I said, I like Fedak talking about BTS stuff. I haven’t listen to all of the Google video, but what I’ve heard is good. He just shouldn’t do spoiler marketing.

    • atcDave says:

      Given what we already knew about how that confrontation would go; I LIKE the look of it. I like Chuck talking to Sarah exactly like he was in that scene, and I really look forward to how she isn’t going to kill him!

      • armysfc says:

        we have now seen her with a knife and a gun. this one precedes the ass kicking in the other one i would wager. same top and all.

      • dkd says:

        This is one of the best promos they’ve ever done. In just a few seconds, Zac’s performance in that scene gave me chills. I’ve rewatched it a dozen times.

        I don’t think it precedes the ass-whupping of Sarah on Chuck. He has a bruise on his cheek in the promo. It’s the same bruise we noticed in a photo of the cast months ago. It looks to me like Sarah beats him and then holds the gun on him.

        What I can’t figure out is where the “You love me?” scene comes in. I don’t see the bruise on his cheek in that one.

      • MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

        dkd, I agree about the sequencing.

        My guess is Sarah realizes she shouldn’t kill him and that they are on the same side–Quinn is the enemy. However she still doesn’t remember the last five years. The second half will be her remembering and falling in love with him again. The “You love me” realization (her tone indicates it’s not a question) comes sometime in the second half.

      • dkd – I’m glad I’m not the only one to have watched this dozens of times. (Afraid my obsessive compulsive side was kicking in again.) Gave me chills as well.
        I think the ass whupping takes place before this scene – it’s the culmination of the fight. I’m left wondering what was said by Sarah before this to prompt that line – cause as a show big on exposition, you know she says something.
        I don’t think we see the “you really love me” scene until 5.13. Just don’t know where. If it were to follow the convention of Other Guy, it will be pretty early on in the ep – but I almost think it’s going to be in the second half hour – and if they are really about building the tension and the real danger of loss – it might be in response to Chuck letting her go – accepting her goodbye.
        Okay, why do I say that – well, in listening to the Google interview today, something that really stands out to me is the comment how the intersect affects everyone differently. We know that Sarah’s memories are wiped, so does that leave her the un-trusting spy she was before? We saw evidence of that in the EPK with Quinn. I think she is confused by the memory loss and doesn’t trust anything or anyone. Chuck will be trying to get her to fall in love with him all over again – but the final piece would be him being the totally selfless person he is and telling her that although her loves her, he would not stand in the way of her happiness or decision to leave.

      • armysfc says:

        maybe the ass beating takes place after the knife?

      • Jason says:

        army, do you have any guesses as to what scene will end 5×12? I am thinking promo2 could be the end, or even the ‘you love ME?’ line or possibly even the gun to Morgan’s head, or if Casey has Sarah’s head in his sniper rifle cross hairs. Or any of that could be in ep 13 but I am thinking not, here is why. My spec for ep 13 (and I think someone may have posted something that Fedak spoiler something like this) is one ten minute act each as a homage to s1/s2/s3/s4, with the 5th ten minutes back to the present and the last ten minutes a ‘goodbye’ or the future.

      • ArmySFC says:

        Jason i’ll give it a shot. the major events anyway. the attempt to kill (knife gun) early on, intersect room early as well. im split on these two. she could enlist their help to steal the intersect then continue with her mission to kill him or they could be flipped or unrelated at all.

        i think the glasses and love me are around he middle of the last hour. just before they take down quinn in berlin. maybe before the dance sequence.

        the sniper scene may end ep. 12. something strange tell me it will be in the concert hall with jeffster singing, lol. it was meant to be the cliffhanger going into 13. does casey take her out or not?

        other than that not a clue, lol.

      • dkd says:

        Just based on what she is wearing, the knife scene seems to be separate from the “beat up/gun” in the face scene. It appears to be a kitchen knife, but I can’t place where the scene is set. It could be their apartment, but I’m not positive.

        Chuck seems to be wearing the same jacket in the “You Love Me” scene as he is wearing in the beat-up scene.

        My guess is the episode ends with Sarah heading off in a plane with Quinn. They say 513 starts with an airplane scene and I wouldn’t be surprised if 512 ends with that as a cliffhanger. I think it’s on the plane that she confronts Quinn about stealing her memories.

    • joe says:

      Oh, wow.

      Confession time. This promo is, for me, the first time S5.13 looks seriously great. I haven’t seen that kind of intensity in Zac but once a season – the last time was when he faced down A. Volkoff in Stephen’s cabin.

      Now I can’t wait to see the whole 2 hrs.

      • thinkling says:

        Heh. Me too, Joe. I admit that’s exactly the line I was expecting in that scece, but it was so great to see it in the spoiler. Gives me chills. I bet it does Sarah, too, and I bet it’s the turning point.

      • lappers84 says:

        I’m actually less worried than I was and just becoming more excited – I know it’ll be fixed, and I feel confident that Sarah will be in love with Chuck by the end (very much a teary eyed moment – when she does remember.)

    • MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

      Thanks. I’m glad I’m still up.

      I wouldn’t might seeing Sarah get’s ‘flashes’ of memories coming back throughout the two episodes. A memory of the dojo in Three Words would be fitting here. It would really confuse her.

    • armysfc says:

      An interview with Adan, Chris and some reporter.www.yourentertainmentcorner.com/2012/01/interview-chuck-a-final-farewell-series-star-adam-baldwin-and-exec-prod-chris-fedak-share-their-thoughts/

  78. jam says:

    Google chat with Fedak and Schwartz. It lasts 50+ minutes, hopefully there will be a transcript of it somewhere soon since I don’t really have time to listen to through it right now.

    Let us know if they say something interesting.

    • Faith says:

      He talks about the kind of ending that will be in the finale 38 minutes in. 8 minutes in he talks about who will be there namely in terms of the Buy Morians. Apart from that some great stuff about the show and the process. I’d recommend watching it.

      • lappers84 says:

        It’s quite an enjoyable interview – I think they handle themselves pretty well. Although it’s mostly Josh who answers a lot of the questions.

    • MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

      15:05->16:40 – Fedak talking about how he evolved from action guy to someone who’s favorite moments are the romantic ones + tease about finale.
      18:50->21:10 – Talking about versions of the Intersect

  79. lappers84 says:

    They mention the whole homage-y thing for the finale and the fact that they will take us through all of the seasons in the finale – I wonder if we can pinpoint every reference in the episodes and figure which past episode it’s taken from (could be quite fun)

    • esardi says:

      I think the sniper scene will be reminiscent of Fake Name. This time Casey cannot take the shot.

      • lappers84 says:

        Well we have the tango scene which could be reference to either Tango or Angel de la Muerte (I’m thinking more Angel.) and Sarah fighting in Weinerlicious – Helicopter maybe??

    • uplink2 says:

      I was very curious about part 3 of the Sepinwall one as it was supposed to be about Season 3. Some interesting things came out and they were a little more open then T thought they would be. They basically said that there was no chemistry between Routh and Yvonne, well duh…, and that they did not know how to write Shaw for Routh till they made him a villain. To me that is basically admitting that the casting of Routh was one of the main reasons that the first half failed and that he was a poorly constructed character. Plus they also admit they got caught up in the Superman, Superman’s girlfriend idea. Too bad one of them is such a limited and weak actor.

      • MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

        They didn’t say that exactly. In fact they seemed careful about their wording. They said the chemistry between Chuck and Sarah is hard to replicate. They said people were more open to the chemistry between Chuck and Hannah. (I wasn’t–she was a stalker in my book.) And they admitted it took a while to figure out how to write Shaw (which I would think would hurt the chemistry). They were also surprised how people reacted to a back rub. The Superman/Lana Lang thing is how they always talk about guest starts: Sarah Conner, James Bond, Doc Brown, Fletch, etc.

        I did like how they talked about what worked and admitted what didn’t. They didn’t overly defend. They simply explained their problems and difficulties. From this interview and others, I’m convinced they think S3 problems were more about budget than anything else. It makes sense they would think that way because those were the problems they had to deal with on a daily basis.

      • atcDave says:

        Well you all know I’ve always felt S3 was fatally flawed at conception; that is, a large number of us would never accept a return to status quo wt/wt after Colonel. And love triangles are the most offensive “in your face” sort of wt/wt there is.

        I don’t think they quite get that response. They still don’t understand me. But that said, I was pleased they do understand that the Zach/Yvonne chemistry is special and a huge part of why the show ever even worked in the first place. That alone gives me hope that if they had it to do over they wouldn’t have gone that route. I don’t know why that matters to me, but it does.

      • armysfc says:

        Dave, that admission still confuses me as to why they went in the direction they did in s3. they admit they wrote kayla out in season one because of the YS/ZL chemistry. then go against that in s3. that’s confusing.

      • FlamesofDestiny (someone had to use it...) says:

        I was very much looking forward to this part of the interview and it was very disappointing. Once again, intelligent and important questions weren’t asked about the length of the season, the casting, etc.

        I’m not as down on Season 3 as many are, but one thing I noticed is that a lot of the people who dislike Season 3 the most dislike it because it repudiated Colonel. I think had they not denied Colonel (at least twice in Season 3, Chuck says he and Sarah were never together), fewer folks would have disliked the season.

        That’s why I personally came to the conclusion that we were watching a different show in Season 3. The original concept basically ended with Colonel and I had more success watching Season 3 as if Chuck downloading the Intersect 2.0 in Ring was the “pilot” for another show entirely. And then Season 3.5, starting with Honeymooers, is still another iteration of the show which essentially suggests that Chuck and Sarah DID run away together in Prague.

        I guess we’ll learn more about how the creators the original Season 3 when we see the finale on Friday. If, as they say, each of the first four acts is essentially an homage to each previous season, it will be interesting to see how much of a homage they do to S3E1-3 in Act 4 and how much of Act 4 is actually an homage to S3E14-19…

      • MyNameIsJeffNImLost says:

        In the Google interview, they talked about another what-if world (like how Other Guy would have been different as a series finale). They admitted that if they knew Chuck S3 had been picked up, they might not have put Chuck and Sarah together in Colonel. However they wouldn’t take it back because they got a couple of great episodes out of it.

        I’ve always thought S3.0 was not surprising. Most TV shows do that. But a show like Colonel so soon was surprising, and S3.0 after Colonel was jarring.

      • atcDave says:

        Jeff its long been one of my suspicions about S3 that they were following an old outline after getting ahead of themselves with Colonel. I know I’m pretty consistent in not liking triangles regardless; but Colonel is what totally changed everything for me as a viewer. And if they did get ahead of themselves with it, I think the reasonable thing to do is go with it. Again, I’m not talking about any pure imperitive or story telling logic issue; this is all about entertainment. There is absolutley no way to be patient with wt/wt again after Colonel.
        The result for me is somewhat like Flames is saying; S3 is following a completely different arc than 2.21 set-up and it doesn’t get back on track until Honeymooners.
        Of course my problem is I can’t seem to accept that as casually as others do. It will always irk me that canon became so offensive and miserable for most of a season. I am glad I stuck with them until they “fixed” it; because I think S4 and S5 have been as wonderful as any television I’ve ever seen. I do like hearing Schwedak admit S3 didn’t go quite right. I’d love to hear something that indicates they completely get this viewers attitude. But just hearing them come close makes me a little happy.

      • joe says:

        It’s so amazing that he said the motel scene in Colonel wouldn’t have happened in S2 had they known they’d be renewed.

        It’s probably my favorite scene of all time – it’s up there in everybody’s top 5 (and that’s one of the few times I’m comfortable using a universal claim like that). Yet they wouldn’t have done it, except in dire circumstances???

        We used to talk about the Moonlighting effect. I guess there really is a fear in Hollywood about putting the leads together too quickly. I’m guessing that they have little confidence that they know where to go next with a couple that has such strong chemistry.

      • uplink2 says:

        Jeff I think the issue with Hannah was that there actually was chemistry between Zac and Kristin. On a different show outside of the Chuck/Sarah story they were a couple that I think could have worked. Part of that to me at least is simply Kristin Kruek is a talented and likeable actor, Brandon Routh is not. Part of the reason