And There’s More!
Once again, the number of comments have caused the Intertubes to drag to a crawl. So before the first episode even airs, let us share what we know and what we hear is going to happen.
Advanced reviews of the first 3:
- Our first source of spoilers is the wonderful Mel at ChuckTV. You really want to go there and read her review of the first three episodes.
- Mo Ryan & podcast (transcript)
- Sepinwall podcast (Transcript)
- DanielleTBD
5.02 – Chuck vs. the Bearded Bandit
Writers: Lauren LeFranc & Rafe Judkins
Director: Patrick Norris
Guest Stars: Jeff Fahey (Karl Sneijder), Justin Hartley (Wesley Sneijder)
Synopsis:
Official synopsis:
“CHUCK VERSUS THE BEARDED BANDIT”
11/04/2011 (08:00PM – 09:00PM) (Friday) : CHUCK ASSUMES THE ROLE OF MORGAN’S HANDLER, AS CARMICHAEL INDUSTRIES FACES NEW BUSINESS COMPETITION—CARRIE-ANNE MOSS (“THE MATRIX”) GUEST STARS AS ‘GERTRUDE VERBANSKI’—JEFF FAHEY AND JUSTIN HARTLEY ALSO GUEST STAR—As the team takes on a missing persons case, Chuck (Zachary Levi) and company struggle to establish themselves as Carmichael Industries in the face of a rival security firm led by the tough and efficient Gertrude Verbanski (guest star Carrie-Anne Moss). Meanwhile, Morgan (Joshua Gomez) continues to adjust to the Intersect while Chuck adjusts to being his handler. Also, the Buy More finds an unlikely spokesperson to help drum up business. Yvonne Strahovski, Adam Baldwin, Ryan McPartlin, Vik Sahay, Scott Krinsky and Mark Christopher Lawrence also star.
Spoilers:
8-2011 Zap2it: (thanks to JC for the find)
“…Fahey plays Karl Sneijder, who, as the boss of a diamond company with mines in South Africa, has been investigated by the CIA in the past for alleged criminal activity. They’ve never been able to pin anything on him.
Hartley will star as Wesley Sneijder, Karl’s handsome younger brother. A Dartmouth and Oxford-educated anthropologist, Wesley has always done his best to stay out of his brother’s business, wanting nothing to do with the ‘world of espionage and spies.’
Of course… he isn’t given much choice when Karl’s enemies kidnap him. Karl will be forced to seek out Carmichael Industries for help.”
11-2011: promotional photos courtesy of ZacharyLevifan.com
5.03 – Chuck vs. Frosted Tips
^thanks to Bundy for the find!
Writer: Phil Klemmer
Director: Paul Marks
Guest Stars: Carrie Anne Moss (Gertrude Verbanski)
Synopsis:
Official synopsis:
“CHUCK VERSUS THE FROSTED TIPS”
11/11/2011 (08:00PM – 09:00PM) (Friday) : WHEN LIFE AS THE INTERSECT INFLATES MORGAN’S EGO, CHUCK IS TESTED AS BOTH HIS HANDLER AND HIS FRIEND—CARRIE-ANNE MOSS GUEST STARS—As the team is tasked with finding one of the CIAs most wanted, Chuck (Zachary Levi) fears that the Intersect may be going to Morgan’s (Joshua Gomez) head. Meanwhile Sarah (Yvonne Strahovski) helps Casey (Adam Baldwin) navigate his relationship with Gertrude (guest star Carrie-Anne Moss). Elsewhere, Captain Awesome (Ryan McPartlin) makes a startling revelation about Jeff (Scott Krinsky) and Lester (Vik Sahay). Sarah Lancaster also stars.
Spoilers:
7-2011 TV Line:
The former Ms. Trinity will have a multi-episode arc as Gertrude Verbanski, “a former spy who now runs Verbanski Corp, the chief rival of Chuck’s new spy company. She’s ruthless and deadly, yet she also has a weak spot for one John Casey — her old rival.”
EW
8-2011 Mo Ryan: (snippet):
There’s the casting of ‘Matrix’ star Carrie-Anne Moss in a multi-episode arc as Gertrude Verbanski, the head of a private espionage agency that competes with Chuck’s new firm. A woman as tough, competitive and weapons-obsessed as Gertrude naturally appeals to John Casey.
“What we wanted to do this season is really kind of open up [Casey] to a new romantic relationship, and we thought we needed someone as badass as him,” Fedak said. “Carrie-Anne seemed like the perfect fit.”
5.04 – Chuck vs. the Business Trip
Writers:
Director:
Guest Stars: David Koechner, Catherine Dent
Short synopsis:
Chuck and Sarah track an assassin who is trying to eliminate the new intersect; Morgan tries to adjust to having the intersect; Jeff exposes a new side of himself.
Official synopsis:
“CHUCK”
“CHUCK VERSUS THE BUSINESS TRIP”
11/18/2011 (08:00PM – 09:00PM) (Friday) : CHUCK AND SARAH MUST UNCOVER AN ASSASSIN AMONG THE EMPLOYEES OF A BUY MORE SALES CONVENTION—DAVID KOECHNER AND CATHERINE DENT GUEST STAR—Chuck (Zachary Levi) and Sarah (Yvonne Strahovski) go undercover at a Buy More convention to hunt down an assassin whose mission is to take down the new Intersect. Meanwhile, Morgan (Joshua Gomez) must deal with the consequences of having the Intersect. At the Buy More, Jeff (Scott Krinsky) begins to show a very different side of himself. Adam Baldwin, Sarah Lancaster, Ryan McPartlin, Vik Sahay and Mark Christopher Lawrence also star.
Spoilers:
From TV|Line:
The actor-comedian [David Koechner] will guest star in the fourth episode of the show’s fifth and final season as “Crazy Bob,” a jolly Buy More manager with whom Chuck and Sarah encounter at the company’s Employee of the Year Convention.
The Shield‘s Catherine Dent also appears in the episode as Jane Robertson, another Buy More manager and a close friend of Bob’s.
Buy More’s new owners Chuck and Sarah spared no expense on the convention, as evidenced by their choice of venue: The beautiful Aloha Hawaiian Hotel and Resort located in (wait for it) Riverside, Calif.
5.05 – Chuck vs. the Hack Off
^thanks again to Bundy for the find!
Writers:
Director: Zachary Levi
Guest Stars: Danny Pudi, Beau Garrett
Synopsis:
Official synopsis:
“CHUCK VERSUS THE HACK OFF”
12/09/2011 (08:00PM – 09:00PM) (Friday) : AN UNDERCOVER MISSION AT A BIZARRE CULT RECONNECTS CHUCK WITH HIS HACKER PAST — CARRIE-ANNE MOSS, BEAU GARRETT AND DANNY PUDI GUEST STAR — DIRECTED BY ZACHARY LEVI — A mission to track down a computer super virus leads Chuck (Zachary Levi) to return to his roots as a hacker — and to call on his biggest competition, Gertrude Verbanksi (guest star Carrie-Anne Moss), for help. Elsewhere, a new Buy More employee (guest star Danny Pudi) complicates Jeff (Scott Krinsky) and Lester’s (Vik Sahay) friendship. Yvonne Strahovski, Adam Baldwin, and Joshua Gomez also star.
Spoilers:
From Mo Ryan and AOL TV:
We can exclusively reveal that Danny Pudi, ‘Community’s’ Abed, will have a cameo role in the fifth episode of the upcoming season of ‘Chuck.’ The details of his role are still under wraps, but really, what more do you need to know? Pudi is a very funny man and ‘Chuck’ will no doubt pull out all the stops to make sure his time in the spy world will be, in a word, awesome.
From E-Online!:
We can tell you exclusively that Tron: Legacy beauty Beau Garrett has been cast in what sounds like a very creepy role: a cult leader! What are the details on her role? And what’s it have to do with Chuck (Zachary Levi) and Sarah (Yvonne Strahovski)? You have questions, we have answers…
5.06 – Chuck vs. The Curse
Writers: Alex Katsnelson
Director: Michael Schultz
Guest Stars: Rebecca Romijn, Mekenna Melvin, Lee Reherman
Synopsis: From Chuck Spoilers:
Chuck and Sarah race to take down a computer virus; Ellie and Awesome’s date takes a dark turn; Morgan must recover Chuck’s P.A.N.T.S
Spoilers:
From Spoiler TV:
amyabn
atcDave
Ernie Davis
Faith
joe
thinkling
Chuck This 
We have EPK’s! Brace yourselves for the awesomeness:
I admit you may groan the first few minutes but stick with it because it’s totally worth it. P.S. Gertrude Verbanksi FTW!
Clips courtesy of ZacharyLevifan.com For the interviews be sure to check out her site by clicking on the link. After everyone’s done that I’ll embed it up top to the comprehensive list.
thanks for both!
Faith, the first 5 minutes of Chuck starts up at about the 22:XX mark of the Grimm premier teaser ….. it is the scene with Mark Harmon and is the debut of the ‘Zoom’, also, somewhere out there is the NBC ep description of 5×3, it seems very serious, and very much a Zoom ep. I total swag on my part, I’m guessing that the glasses were planted with a bug to make Chuck (and now Morgan) betray his friends and become Decker’s pawn??? Anyhow here is the link, which I assume came from NBC somewhere originally????
http://www.tv.com/news/watch-the-first-20-minutes-of-grimm-and-the-opening-of-chucks-season-5-premiere-video-26980/
Thanks Jason, I’ve also added it up top. Off to watch it now…
thanks! i was looking for the one thing that would make me enjoy morgan. when it began i thought this could be it. then he broke the vase and poof there went that idea.
tandem fight without the intersect, I like!
Here is an advance review of the first 3 episodes via @Danielletbd
To add here are conversations I’ve had with her re: Morgansect and my concerns:
http://twitter.com/#!/danielletbd/status/127460918631215104
http://twitter.com/#!/jemjoven/status/127461857140289536
http://twitter.com/#!/danielletbd/status/127462101764669440
http://twitter.com/#!/jemjoven/status/127463927176105984
http://twitter.com/#!/danielletbd/status/127464974779035648
http://twitter.com/#!/danielletbd/status/127470437046292481
I have the distinct impression that you two are influencing each others’ though processes. That’s so cool!
Thanks for the clips, Faith. EPKs, here I come!
One more sneak peek courtesy of Ausiello TVLine. It’s only flash right now so soon as there’s an iOS link I’ll post it.
Sepinwall & Feinberg’s latest podcast where they talk about the first three episodes Chuck is here.
Transcript here:
“Sepinwall: Friday at 8, finally a couple weeks into the season we get what is
supposed to be the fifth and final season of Chuck on NBC. Dan & I
were talking…But at the rate NBC is going it may not be shocking at
all for there to be a sixth, seventh, ninth season of Chuck because
with just everything else keeps failing and Chuck somehow just keeps
maintaining its small but little Chuck audience.
Feinberg: Why are you teasing the Chuck fans Alan?
Sepinwall: No this will be the last season. It probably should be the
last season. Except for all the all time greatest shows you generally
don’t want to go past five seasons because that’s when you go into
repetition. We come back you’re in the new season, trying to shake
things up. Chuck, Sarah, Casey & Morgan are now freelance spies, own
the buy more. They’re using sort of what’s left of Volkoff’s fortune.
Morgan is now the intersect. The early episodes feature guest
appearances by Mark Hammill, by Jeff Fahey, by Carrie Anne Moss, by
other people. And what’s you think of what you’ve seen or Chuck season
5?
Feinberg: I didn’t feel like they made very good use out of any of the
premise shifts that you mentioned, honestly. I didn’t feel like they
got great value out of the Volkoff’s fortune and their spy business.
Morgan as the intersect gets some value but it feels rushed. A lot of
what happens in the first three episodes feels rushed. Which is
contrast to so frequently in recent years when there had been padded
because the show has magically gotten extended for a few additional
episodes and no one had any idea how to tell the story anymore, this
to me felt rushed and like they weren’t getting enough value out of
the premise. That would be my response to the first three episodes.
Sepinwall: I had some issues with the first couple especially. It
seemed as if sort of… Especially Morgan as the intersect was not
working out as well as I’d hoped it would. A part of me just be that
it is much harder to double for Josh Gomez that was the Zachary Levi
and so Morgan is not necessarily as convincing a b*dass as Chuck was.
So some of the humor is taken away from that. But then I got to the third
episode and I thought the third episode did a very good job of sort of
moving things forward and giving the season a direction and sort of
giving you know, more sense of importance to what they have done so
far and at that point I felt fairly confident in where the show was
going to go for the rest of the 13 episodes.
Feinberg: But did you feel like the pacing of the third episode was
right? Did you feel like that was given the right amount of time?
Sepinwall: um it’s a little bit rushed but it is building on something
they started with Morgan in the second episode. So they at least
devoted two episodes to it. Yeah, no they’re definitely moving fast
and that happened last year as well on the first 13 when they thought
was really only 13. Um, pacing has never been the show’s friend except
maybe in the second season which is the only one that was the length
it was supposed to be from start to finish. But again I like where it
wound up going in the end. And I like the way they’re using Carrie
Anne Moss as sort of the owner of a rival for their private spy
business and also as a potential love interest for Casey. I thought of
all the guests she definitely fit in the best. So the first couple of
episodes I watched and I enjoyed some good bits here and there but I’m
definitely like ok this is a show in its final season and it’s
probably time but and then the third episode I said okay this is a
show I know.
Feinberg: I agree with your about Carrie Anne Moss. I do think they’re using her
well and I thought Jeff Fahey was used decently in the second episode.
Can you even preapproved to me tht Mark Hammill was in the first
episode?
Sepinwall: I swear to god, I knew Mark Hammill was in one of the
episodes and I did not remember which one. I watched the premiere , I
went away. Mo Ryan asked me a day or so later: “what did you think of
Mark Hammill in the Chuck premiere?” I had no idea that that was him.
Feinberg: I did, I kept expecting for there to be a payoff for it
being him and there wasn’t one. And that’s not, I mean this is a show
that gets value out d it’s guest stars. Chuck has always been
fantastic at getting value out of its guest stars. I’m not so sure in
the first episodes of this season felt like they were getting value
out of their guest stars. I don’t know. There’s a lot in the new
status quo that feels underdeveloped early on.
Sepinwall: I think they ended last season with sort of a maybe rough
idea of how they were going to do things but then you come back to
them and some are working out better than others so you have to scrap
this immediately, or we have to move past this immediately.
Feinberg: I just feel like there was fun to be had with the Volkoff
fortune that no one bothered to have. And I don’t know why they didn’t
want to have that fun. Except that there were someplace they needed to
go. There was no time spent on the things they established in the
finale and you know that’s choice and ok I guess. But yeah like you, I
definitely found the third episode to be the best of the three but I
thought the first 2 episodes were sort of slow & not quite sure what
they wanted to be & in a way that Chuck isn’t usually.
Sepinwall: yeah I was concerned watching the first 2. Third one I
liked hopefully that sends a good course for where they’re going for
the 10 after that.
Feinberg: hopefully indeed, it’s just I have concerns for what happens
because those first two episodes just aren’t so sure of what they
wanted to be given that there’s only 13 of them but who knows. Maybe
Chuck will premiere so solidly that NBC will reach out and go and say
here: want another 9, for fun, for old time’s sake.
Sepinwall: Let me ask you this: we’re dealing with this in Fringe as well. Which
is not in it’s final season but which many people are assuming their
final season. That’s a show that also came back with a brand new
status quo set up by last year’s cliffhanger. Some people like it
quite a bit but other people like me have not and feel like you really
shouldn’t be monkeying around with this at this late date to sort of
try to tell good story set up you already had. Think in hindsight
knowing that this is going to be the last year that maybe the whole
freelance spies, plus Morgan as the intersect was maybe not such a
great idea.
Feinberg: I don’t think I necessarily thought it was a bad idea. Maybe I didn’t
particularly (if you recall) like the way in which they set up Morgan
as the intersect in the finale and I don’t think it’s all that
spectacular but they did have to switch the show up a little bit and
this seemed like viable way to do it. Just so many of the things that
you thought would be fun in the change of the status quo aren’t fun
enough in the first couple episodes. So you know it was almost like
they decided after they got the renewal that maybe they didn’t like
the new status quo that they set up all that much and maybe they
wanted to do something different and their call.”
Chuck – Episode 5.04 – Chuck vs. the Business Trip – Short Synopsis —– Chuck and Sarah track an assassin who is trying to eliminate the new intersect; Morgan tries to adjust to having the intersect; Jeff exposes a new side of himself.
Taken from: SpoilerTV http://www.spoilertv.com/2011/10/chuck-episode-504-chuck-vs-business.html#ixzz1bmqahyJv
So Morgan is still the intersect in 5.04, I have a feeling that by the time we come to this point the Morgansect story will have receeded behind other stories that they are telling and become a bit of a background thing.
I guess it was too much to hope for it to be completely gone from Morgan by then. Who knows, maybe by then I’d have bought into it.
Hmmm, so perhaps 5.03 only fixes whatever was wrong with Morgan’s Intersect?
I’m really curious about that. On the one hand, it appears Morgan is less on the frontlines in 504 and 505 because both seem to have a lot of Chuck and Sarah based on what I’ve seen. But, on the other, it still appears he still has the intersect.
I wonder what’s up.
The Final Big Bad?
http://www.tvline.com/2011/10/chuck-angus-macfadyen-season-5-villain/
Great actor, haven’t seen him do any comedies though. Could be this final arc is more serious than the show has done or attempted to do?
Transcript of Mo Ryan and Ryan Mcgee’s latest podcast on the first 3 episodes of Chuck. Listen here.
Read here:
Mcgee: The first show that we’re going to talk about is the return or Chuck. The unlikely return let’s be frank Chuck goes back this Friday at 8 PM NBC for the fifth season. As much as we malign NBC Mo, for it’s poor ratings those poor ratings have given us the fifth season of Chuck and if you would have told me this three years ago I don’t think I would’ve taken that bet.
Mo: Well no I mean that’s that’s the one thing the tempers these shows that get one season and done like Terriers things like that where you’re really really heartbroken is that you can get those wins occasionally like friendly night lights going five seasons and Chuck going on five seasons which honestly if you’d asked me to lay money on that you know midway through its first season I would have said you’re crazy. Whatever the the longest odds on the show coming back I would take that bet. So it’s pretty amazing. It’s definitely a tribute to the fans who rallied for the show and you know stuck around for it and when it was going through its ups and downs, really show their I don’t know, their devotion in so many ways so they’ve just been really innovative and fun to hang out with. I’ve gotten to know several of them and they’ve just, they’re just stellar people and really cool so it’s one of those things where really the show becomes kind of bigger than itself. And it’s funny I was just at a Supernatural convention and as often the case with you on a weekend, Ryan I know..
Mcgee: like you do and
Mo: Like you do and so, I think that another case of the show kind of becoming more than the sum of its parts because there were several fans I talked to there that weren’t really pleased with where the shows is going right now but they’ve formed a community around that show which is almost more important to them at this stage than the show itself. So I yeah, I can’t help but have a silly grin on my face when watching those first 3 episodes. I can’t say that every single turn is earned or every single twist is navigated gracefully but for the most part I enjoyed them. I don’t know, how about you?
Mcgee: Before we get into a discussion, this usually goes without saying but we’ll say it upfront in case there are Chuck fans here or are like flop sweating themselves, we’re not going to spoil anything here.
Mo: Not at all.
Mcgee: We do hint. If you were worried about the slightest hint of information or the slightest hint, watch them coz they’re great. We’re not going anywhere. Definitely check them out. All you need to know, check the information listing, skip over to Grimm which is the next show we’re going to talk about. Come back in three weeks. No harm no foul.
Mo: Oh so are you saying we will maybe talk about a few little things that happened or?
Mcgee: I don’t know what people consider a spoiler. It’s funny like today on twitter there was someone who was spoiled as a Chuck piece of casting that was announced on twitter that I viewed sort of as a spoiler. And that sort of sparked a discussion about what makes that a spoiler.
Mo: Oh ok. I think safe to say if you want to skip ahead to the next section feel free to do that. Um, what I’m going to talk about I wouldn’t consider spoilers. I would consider them teasers if you will.
Mcgee: Yeah. Same with me.
Mo: Appetizers for you know, oh it’s cool that this happened. There are some twist and turns but we you know, of course would never reveal the big one but if you’re certainly a huge purist about that stuff feel free to skip. If you don’t mind a few teases about what happened and things we enjoyed, then stick around.
Mcgee: Ok so first 3 episodes. You’ve seen them, I’ve seen them. The weird thing about Chuck, I was on record saying I didn’t particularly like the way that season 4 ended because I wasn’t sure what-how a show based around Morgan as the intersect or a show that potential could be based around Morgan as the intersect as opposed to having Morgan with the intersect be sort of a side show to this sort of main thrust of the storyline would go. Because as excited as I was to have a fifth season of Chuck in some ways emotionally speaking the show wrapped itself up pretty nicely in season 4 in terms of what I felt was the main story and the main story for me is entirely-not entirely about but mainly about Chuck and his relationship both with Sarah and his family. That felt like it had a satisfying conclusion twice in season 4.
Mo: Yeah
Mcgee: Which is pretty damn miraculous and it’s a testament to the show’s ability to sort of you know stop-start given the fact that they never know if they were going to be canceled to coddle these things together into something that feels like a continuous, continuous planned out story.
Mo: Yeah
Mcgee: When it gets to this season they’ve kind of done whatever they wanted to do. Because its cart blanche. Not only are they not afraid of getting canceled over the next 13 episodes, they know these are the last 13. The show can kind of do whatever it wanted to do and NBC would kind of have to take it. And through the first 3 episodes of season 5, what seems like Chuck wanted to be was burn notice with more laughs.
Mo: Yeah. There was some pretty…that was pretty pleasing to me. I definitely felt like they were really pacing. If anything I would have slowed down the pacing in a couple of arenas. Um, but there was no dilly dallying about things you know, side issues that kind of didn’t really pay off or entertain in any major way. Actually I was writing about, I was kind of preparing for my Chuck returns piece earlier today and I was writing about sort of trying to head off to pass a question that I may get from fans which is: is there a chance that NBC could extend the season order? I’m of the camp that I kind of hope they don’t. Not–here’s my thinking. If NBC at the start said we want 16 episodes, we want 18, we want 20, we want 22, before the writing process begun that would be a different story but as we’ve seen it can sometimes be really hard. Some of this is not the show’s fault and some of it is but in past seasons when they’ve had to tack on that whole new bunch of stuff they have to as you said invent one ending but not an ending wherp, you know kind of like turn the machinery in a different direction and that can just be difficult. There’s a huge degree of difficulty in making that seem uh seamless uh so I kind of hope…if this is what they knew to be the ending, to get that ending and they get to film that ending because to have to build to an ending and not have that ending will be really unfortunate. To me it seems as if they really have a plan in place for where this all going to go. We should revisit this after the first 3 air because there’s a question I want to pose to you. This is a very vague question, I’m not going to give anything away with it. I think, I wonder in some ways on the mythology level they’re setting themselves a goal that’s too difficult but um, you know, we have to see how that progresses too.
McGee: It’s funny you know, when I said, you know the burn notice line I meant is as kind of as a slam. You took it as a positive so let me try to explain
Mo: Haha.
McGee: Let me try to explain what I mean by Burn notice. It-it-I
Mo: Burn Notice is awesome!
McGee: I like Burn Notice. I like it as the piece of show as it is. Burn Notice is a take of USA Network’s “mythology” and that has somehow trickled back up to NBC? In terms of what they consider mythology is that you’ve got sort of a little situation at the beginning. You’ve got sort of a coda that you revisit and everything else in between is a procedural case of the week. And that’s very much what these first three episodes are. Yes you’re dealing with fallout from Morgan getting the intersect, yes Chuck is trying to start Carmichael Industries as we saw at the end of season 4 and they’re continuing things with him and Sarah as a married couple but by and large the way that they try to expand the big story of the season? Through three episodes we’ve gotten about 12 minutes of that particular story. So I don’t-when the story moves that slowly sometimes I get impatient with it and I’m like why did you feel the need bother with this at all if it can’t be better integrated into the story as a whole.
Mo: Well that I had that thought as well. I mean I think that that’s a very valid concern and I think I’m just going to have to see if the proof is really there. But you know, I guess my caution stems from the fact that in terms of executing the big picture mythology, the show has not always necessarily delivered on that and I don’t think it’s kind of their arena of strength if you will.
McGee: Oh absolutely.
Mo: And so that to me is like, I agree with you, the question can be asked, why did they choose to really set themselves up for you know, a challenging overarching story? I think there will be episodes down the road that maybe delve into that more deeply but I just wonder how many fans would have been happy with something the team was working towards, some bigger goal, or some bigger picture, you know plot here and there. But I just, you know 13 more adventures with Chuck, Sarah, Casey, Morgan and the Buy More crew, I would have been fine with that. You know what I mean? Just some-something less challenging. Just kind of a victory lap if you will.
McGee: I just think that you know, I think Tod Vander, put this really well as we were approaching the end of Lost, people were trying to–how are they going to wrap up all this stuff up and he was trying to stress and I think I’ve been trying to say it, and you’ve been trying to say it but he said it so succinctly that I was like face palmed it, yes exactly this. He said, people are looking for answers where what they really should be looking for is resolution. And what I’m looking forward to in this fifth season of Chuck is resolution for the central characters. Not only Chuck, but for Sarah…
Mo: But don’t you feel like to in degree they’ve already had that?
McGee: Exactly, I mean in some ways there’s at least one storyline the show blows through in three episodes in a way that feels very satisfying to kind of get this out of the way. Do-Am I, again it always sounds so mean to say, boy I wish the show didn’t continue because it really angers a lot of people and I think it conveys the wrong message which is to say: some shows it’s okay if they have a short shelf life. There’s something ok about having a finite number of episodes that you can always cherish, sometimes wanting more just becomes selfish. Now do we want more Chuck? Sure but where do these kind of characters go? Where does Morgan having really push that character? That’s the interesting. Not what whacky adventures can he have? I could give or take those, I could have those in my head and they’re probably going to be a lot better and trust me the stunt doubles in my head are much better than the stunt doubles in the first 3 episodes of Chuck. Oh lord.
Mo: Yeah.
McGee: Not good. And I’m sure they’re not going to get any better from the screeners we have seen. Um, I want to see Casey get a happy ending. I think season 5, I thought a lot in season 4, they didn’t really take enough advantage of the fact that Morgan and Casey had plenty of places to go. The storyline of Casey and the mother of his daughter, they really dropped the ball on that. That was a huge disappointment for me, much more than the Volkoff story lines because the show is normally a spy show in some ways, it’s got that flavor but the more the show tried to push that angle, the more the seams started to show and it’s not-that’s not its area of strength. Build the season 5 around-because the end of season 4 what they did what Angel pretty much did in its 4th season which is try to throw a hail mary and try to connect everything that has ever happened in its past under some giant rubric and this was all the master plan all along. I don’t think anyone buys that. And so why emphasize this in the fifth season?
Mo: Yeah, I don’t-that’s the problem-I do think that you know the mythology aspect of the show has never been its strongest suit and I think that sense of progression, that sense of building blocks within a season, within a series, that’s hard to pull off, you know in addition to all the other stuff they’re trying to do. So I guess I kind of agree with you, I think a victory lap with some overarching stuff would have been fine. That they chose this degree of difficultly to me, I found surprising, but I don’t know…I’m willing to see where it goes. I basically feel at the outset, there are enough things that I enjoy about Chuck that if it doesn’t really tie together, make a whole lot of sense, I kind of have that expectation going in you know? It’s kind of like, we’re going to get to talking about Sons of Anarchy in a bit, and I was talking to a friend about that show the other day, and we were talking about different nitpicks or you know mechanical difficulties that we sort of encounter with the show and I think with certain shows I just get that they’re never going to be great at that and either I can or I can’t accept it and move on.
McGee: Right, the problem comes from the show does not realize that they’re not good at it.
Mo: Well you know, I mean, in a weird way, I kind of want to take my hat off to Chuck for trying something. It’s last season, I don’t know that it needed to be what it is that they’re attempting but if they pull it off, more power to them. I want to be optimistic I guess. I tend to be stupidly optimistic when it comes to shows I have affection for.
McGee: And I tend-I just want to emphasize, as many complaints as I’ve expanded on, there’s some really good stuff in the first 3 episodes. The stuff that has always tickled me about the show. The things that really gets to me, still gets to me and there’s a core to the show, there’s a sweet earnestness to this show that bypasses a lot of my, you know unsavory/cynical aspects and go “oh man, this is fun!”
Mo: Yeah and I think in certain core elements, I was actually really pleased with how they paid attention to the fact that this is a journey for Chuck. This isn’t just “hey Morgan’s the intersect!” There is a progression for the lead, title character as well. And so that to me felt very smart in terms of where the show is going.
McGee: I also want to say one more vague thing: Chuck and Sarah-Chuck tries to get something for Sarah in this first episode and if the show ends with him achieving that, that would be a good end of the show. That’s all I need from the show. That will make the show and the journey of it, worth it for me. Everything else is complete distraction and it’s very funny..
Mo: But don’t you want how, this is a fake spoiler, they disrupt or destroy the evil megalomaniacs volcano based on the moon? (Laughs) You know what I mean? Sometimes I feel like, and again
McGee: Only if Casey does it with a strategic grunt.
Mo: Exactly. Now that’s actually a show I want to see a show with the team going to space. That takes place in season 6, they do it in the comics and they go to space and they disrupt the base of an evil dictator living on the moon and controlling us all through death-rays.
McGee: Fantastic. Mo and I, anything else on Chuck before we move onto Grimm?
Mo: I would say in terms of guest stars, they know-they tend to know who will work well on that show. I found Carrie-Anne Moss fun, I think she kind of gets the vibe and she fit in really well. I didn’t necessarily love Craig Killborn or think he was thespian to watch but I didn’t expect him to be all that on the show.
McGee: He’s there a walking slime, that’s fine.
Mo: He’s there to be an evil financier and I didn’t hard that hard to buy so, I don’t know, any guest stars that popped for you?
McGee: Oh, the very first one that appeared in the entire-do we want to mention this person? Is it well known?
Mo: I think so-it was all over Comic Con and since then for months. Mark Hammill’s in the opening scene
McGee: And he’s not in it enough!
Mo: Well you know, he’s also not inside a ton-ton, that’s a spoiler I guess. He’s not in character as a Star Wars character.
McGee: That made me very happy again stunt casting is the power of Chuck-stunt casting usually makes me cringe. David Hasselhoff in Sons of Anarchy anyone? But this was like “Oh man! Luke freaking Skywalker on Chuck!”
Mo: Yeah that had to happen I feel like.
McGee: Yeah that had to happen.
Mo: Generally it’s fun.
McGee: Yeah, we’re glad we have a fifth season.
Mo: Super glad.
Faith thanks.
one thing i liked from a personal aspect was it confirmed that i was not the only one that thought they do not handle the mythology well and the long arc’s suffer because of it.
i’ll take a guess that the story they blow through is mogan and his problems with the intersect or the rival spy company. we know morgan still has it in 4.
The Burn Notice comparison was amusing. The beginning and end segments are by far my least favorite part of the show, I much prefer the “adventure of the week.” I’m mostly the same with Chuck, it’s fun and adventure stuff I love, don’t really care so much about the big picture.
They called it “Burn Notice with class”. I’d call it Burn Notice with heart (& humor!)
Sorry Dave, that was my bad. It was “with laughs,” and not “class.”
That makes a lot more sense Faith!
@Dave. I completely agree with you about the Burn Notice conspiracy vs the adventure of the week. Normally, I like big arcs (I’m a Babylon 5 fan). The problem with Burn Notice is the arc moves way too slowly and is very redundant. Here’s the guy who burned him. No, here’s the guy who really burned him. Wait, here’s the guy behind the guy who really burned him. The season ending showdowns are usually pretty good, but they aren’t as fun as the how-to-be-a-spy-while-saving-the-little-guy lessons.
I think what some people perceive as pacing problems in Chuck’s arcs don’t bother me because the pacing is so much better than BN.
I wouldn’t want to know what anyone else thinks about the messed up Fiona-Michael relationship. Sarah and Chuck’s past communication problems are nothing compared to them. Sarah’s personal crisis and character evolution in Season 3 (note: the Chuck version of Godwin’s Law) makes a lot more sense than Fiona wanting to settle down while still dealing weapons out of her trunk.
I like BN and Covert Affairs, but they make me appreciate Chuck even more.
I agree with most all of that Jeff. Although I’m somewhat mixed on serialized vs episodic. I was also a huge B5 fan, but I’m often very cynical about the pacing and timing on major story arcs (gee it’s a finale, must be time for a juicy clue; but it’s not a SERIES finale so the major mystery can’t be solved yet…)
Burn Notice is a ton of fun with the body of the episode (I like the way you put it), but the over-arc gets tiresome.
I think Chuck does it right by mostly just being fun.
“just being fun”
Exactly. That’s my #1 criteria for liking a show. It’s why I don’t worry about minor plot holes and other minor issues in Chuck. The show is too much fun to worry about them.
Sounds they’re quite happy over all, which makes me……happy!
Great read. Thanks for the transcript, Faith.
Here’s an interview/preview with Joshua Gomez from @DanielleTBD of Examiner.
Both Sepinwall and Mo Ryan have put up their Season five, non-spoilery reviews, they seem consistent that the first three episodes are good, gooder and and really good. That the first two have some problems but they can be overlooked in the greater mix of the show.
Here’s a link.
I do like that they were both brutally honest and yet with an affection for a show that they continue to love. I wish the same can be said for some fans.
Here is a Fedak INterview. It scares the blazes out of me, not because of the usual Fedak, who could make the Packe Super Bowl win last season sound like a loss, but because he makes the entire season sound very, very, very good:
http://blog.zap2it.com/frominsidethebox/2011/10/chuck-co-creator-chris-fedak-on-the-approaching-end-intersect-morgan-and-the-chuck-solution.html
For once I wasn’t as concerned…even when he said the word: “epic” in relation to the finale. But I think he’s right, this will be the best goodbye, a most fitting farewell. All the things he said about it being satisfying and yet dramatic just sounded right to me. Plus saying that the Cheryl Ladd episode will be fan favorite is gold.
For fun here are TVGuide’s wish list for the final season. I say no to Hannah, but hell yes to Sh@w being cremated ;).
That’s all exciting stuff. I am completely up for Friday night. Epic indeed.
I had one big problem with the Fedak interview, at one point he talks about the mythology of Sarah’s mom, okay great, but if he cares so much about the mythology, then why use the most important aspect of the mythology, the intersect, as comic relief? That’s exactly the kind of thing that taints a mythology of a show.
I’m going to watch the season, and I hope they change my mind about it. And above all I hope they don’t do 24/7 Morgan/Chuck bromance.
Oops typo, due should have clearly been do.
I fixed your typo; darn auto-correct!
Fogh that and just too much Morgan has been my concern since Cliffhanger ran. But I think it will be fine, they’ve talked about the importance of Chuck himself in every interview I’ve seen. They’ve also talked about Sarah’s story enough that I think they get how important she is to many of us. I admit, I’d be happy to see Morgan get less screen time; but he’s always had a fairly large part, and it’s clear that won’t be changing. So I guess all I can do is laugh at the bearded buffoon (and curse that he gives short bearded guys everywhere a bad name!)
IT’S FRIDAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
With all the excitement everyone forgot about the synopsis being out regularly on Fridays :D. Anyway, the synopsis to Business Trip is now up above.
from e spoiler….
Ronnie in Anaheim, Calif: Morgan in Chuck’s season premiere was really funny, but I feel like Chuck should be the one with the Intersect.
We’re totally picking up what you’re putting down, but now it’s Morgan’s (Joshua Gomez) time to shine. In the week’s episode, an overly eager Morgan is willing to do whatever it takes to be taken seriously (like costing Carmichael Industries $150,000) Yikes! But while Morgan is busy “zooming,” Chuck (Zachary Levi) is beginning to notice some very strange changes in his BFF’s personality. For example: Morgan seriously asks who Luke Skywalker is. Could the Intersect be more of a foe than friend this season? Dun-dun-dun!
Interesting spoiler. Notice how evasive it is about how long Morgansect might last. Are they trying to keep it under wraps? Or are they thinking they messed up?
BTW, Ronnie’s question perfectly reflects what I got from several casual viewers.
Dave if they listened they would know they screwed up. i think they knew they screwed up and tried to find a good way to end it. i just hope it doesn’t take to long.
Well we know they were saying at the end of S4 it would be a season long thing, my first thought is just if they end it any sooner than that they are taking fan commentary seriously.
But I’m also remembering the response to the misery arc. After Mask (the Olympic break) they leaked a preview video and started giving interviews. They included clearly encouraging information (the “stake date”; the “do you love me” scene; Sarah as the drunken Texan) along with the warning that the next episode (Fake Name) wasn’t going to fix anything. It was a curious bit of damage control. I’m not sure how effective it was. Certainly some of the “hope” they gave was false (the misery arc did continue all the way to 3.13), but perhaps it encouraged some viewers to hold out just long enough.
So it will be very interesting to me to see both how it plays out and how they talk about what’s coming. The suggestion that Morgan’s story will reach some sort of climax in 5.03, yet he still has the Intersect in 5.04 is a real head scratcher to me. And my interest is perhaps more clinical this time since I don’t feel the emotion about this story that I did about the last one. I’m still hoping they’re paying attention, but I think I can enjoy the story however they handle the PR.
good points. if i had to guess morgan has his melt down early in three. ellie finds a way to fix it by using an intersect type program, like installing a patch to a program. morgan then has intersect without the side affetcs until later in the season. they use this device to show chuck was special and morgans use of it lessens and he goes back to being the regular troll he is. based on the past like you said, i don’t think they will give up on an idea. i heard on a spoiler site, can’t remember which one, it may have been DR site, this whole plot line was slated to be used in season three with bryce, except they couldn’t get Bomer and that led to the shaw arc. if that is indeed the case it will last most of the season.
I still don’t see the point to the Morgansect storyline. There is no point in saying yeah we are going to do a Morgansect storyline to show Chuck is special, but excuse me just a minute, haven’t we had such storylines before? It was pretty clear from season one onward that Chuck was special, so what’s the freaking point to the Morgansect? To me this whole storyline is either something Fedak has put in as a favor to Gomez, or he’s showing the world that Morgan is his lovechild(the first being the option that would make more sense, after all Gomez might have done a solid job so far, while Morgan is nothing but annoying, sorry reached my Morgan tolerance limit a long time ago, even if he wasn’t that bad in the last episode). But as far as progressing the story goes it’s completely and utterly useless. Rather they have Morgan die in the next episode and then actually show the characters dealing with things for a change, than them trying to portray a useless story again, even if I care far less about this one, than I did about the misery arc.
Just wanted to add to what I said earlier. That is the problem I got with the first episode of season5. If we hadn’t had the first four seasons it would have been an enjoyable episode, but I can’t disconnect this episode from the previous 4seasons.
Fogh, fedak already came out and said he did it for josh. he explained how he approached josh while filming an episode around 22 i think. so yeah he did it for josh.
Thanks army, never read that. But that explains it, and that’s fine, but then don’t give us that hogwash that it’s to prove Chuck’s special, then just say we wanted to reward Josh for the work he has done for us. That I can accept, pretending we need a storyline while we don’t, not so much.
I think between comments made about keeping Morgan relevant to the story, and their unending need to “reinvent” themselves every season; it seems to me the whole Morgansect idea is just clearly an attempt to do something unexpected and outrageous. Now I’m mostly okay with that, I mean I always saw the show as a comedy first and this story is clearly about the laughs. But their attempts to lend weight to it do strike me as rationalizing. I get why they might do that too, but it is sort of amusing to watch.
Tbh Dave when a show does something outrageous just for the sake of it, it annoys me. I don’t read stories that do things for the heck of doing things either. And I don’t care if the mythology is something that is prone to change, sure it is, but then explain why, or as show creators explain that there really is no reason, and that you just think it’s fun television. That I can respect, trying to make yourself seem like someone that writes deep and classy storylines, that are constantly evolving, while you really are just hopping from the one to the other without structure that is what annoys me about Fedak.
And I may be overly generous in saying I’m okay with it. I don’t particularly like the Morgansect idea, but it’s not that big a thing to me. I’m far more interested in other aspects of the story anyway. in fact, from the beginning, the Intersect was one of the less interesting elements of the story to me. It’s basically just an excuse for thrusting an ordinary guy, that I identified with, into an exciting and dangerous life. Since the Intersect has accomplished that end, I sort of don’t care what happens with it now. And as I’ve said many times, I’m not a huge Morgan fan (nor do I hate him; he’s like garlic, a little bit is very good, but too much is overpowering), my preference would be that they hadn’t done this. But since they did, I can laugh and have a good time with it. My favorite elements remain Charah, family and friendship themes, action adventure with outrageous stunt work, dastardly villains who need to get their comeuppance, andca nice bit of comedy sprinkled over the whole thing. My only worry about Morgan is if they overdo it. But I can live with a few Morgan heavy episodes in the next couple weeks.
There is precious little Chuck left, and I mean to enjoy it.
here’s some pics from ep 2 and an interview with Moss
http://insidetv.ew.com/2011/10/31/carrie-anne-moss-chuck-photos/
The most interesting thing to me was just her comments on the differences in movies versus television. They spend weeks or months preparing and choreographing a fight for cinema, 10 minutes in television. Wow!
I am just really excited that Casey’s gonna get a love interest.
Best news from Mel at ChuckTV.net and Fedak interview. Morgansect will be over before finale and 5.08 will be favorite Sarah Walker episode ever.
That is awesome news all around!
they need to go a long way to beat phase three, if so it should be a treat!
looked at the site do you have the link to the interview?
She posted a running update on Twitter. She will have it up later on.
thanks, i was looking for it. i heard elsewhere 5.08 was the best sarah ep and morgansect would end before the end. did she have new stuff?
Some. Characters with best finale story are Chuck and Sarah. sound like house and baby to me.
BTW where else did you hear Morgansect ends before end of season? God I hope so.
heck if i know. i go to so many sites it’s hard to tell. i remember its from another interview he did a while ago or parts of ones put together.
He said it was a test of Morgan/Chuck friendship. To me that could mean its over by ep5 which is what I’m hoping for. The sooner the better. I never want to hear Morgan Grimes call Sarah “my girl” ever again.
i second that my girl thought. i think morgansect will go on till at least 10. instead of c/s angst we get c/m angst. he did say he wants to test the friendship.
Even with that its still a big yawn for me. It just means my rewatches will be faster as I fast forward through any Morgansect material. Between that and the BuyMore stuff my rewatches will be down to 20 minutes lol.
heres most of it i think…
http://www.tvline.com/2011/11/chuck-season-5-spoilers-chris-fedak/
also from Mel…
Exclusive
Thanks to our source, whose name rhymes with Hiss Meedak, we have the title for Chuck episode 5.07, this season’s Christmas episode. The ep, which is currently slated to air after Christmas thanks to NBC bumping the premiere back a week, is titled “Chuck vs. the Santa Suit.”
some more , mostly the same, but threre are some plus
http://www.buddytv.com/articles/chuck/chuck-season-5-executive-produ-42476.aspx
http://insidetv.ew.com/2011/11/02/chuck-scoop-chris-fedak/
Matt Barber tweeted that episode 11 is Chuck vs The Bullet Train Written by Nicholas Wooten Directed by Buzz Feitshans
Maybe the Charleses will ride again.
That would be fun!
Herder, you used just 5 words, and said more than most do with a hundred – very Mo Ryan-ish of you and delightfully positive – THANKS! Just to add a little pepper to the pot, given it is the third last, I could see a balcony type ep, thorough, fun entertainment for 40 minutes, and then a final twist reveals itself in the last two minutes to set up the last major story.
here’s a link to the interview done by Mel.
http://chucktv.net/2011/11/02/chris-fedak-on-payoffs-surprises-epicness-in-chucks-final-season/
That says a bunch, although Fedak could have done an interview announcing the USA landing on the moon back in the 60’s, and he would have ended up talking about how many people get murdered each day on the streets, world hunger, and how poorly the Vietnam war is going.
I think I finally get him, he tries to not lie, yet he tries to not spoil anything, so if he says anything close to positive that might be true, he adds the most brutal thing he can think of as possible. He is getting better at interviews, but I probably follow 4 or 5 show runners, he is the only one that I read interviews and scratch my head. I don’t think his interviews have tended to drum up new business.
Here is how I am going to interpret his statements regarding the rest of the season: The journey is going to be fun most of the time, the detours will be quick, and only take us to exciting, awesome places we could not get to without the detours, and the final destination will be EPIC.
CF is his own show’s own worst enemy.
I had a friend who could hand someone the death penalty and make him feel positive about it. Seriously, she was amazing. CF is the exact opposite of that. He could commute your death sentence and somehow make you dread your new life.
That said, I think your interpretation is pretty spot on, Jason. So, I’m still stoked about S5, in spite of CF’s tendency to shoot himself, and Chuck, and all the rest of us in the foot. I have plenty of other feet, right? 😉
I thought it was pretty standard Fedak. His interviews follow so much of a pattern you can pretty much script them yourselves. There’s usually some spin on the issue of the day, a line or two about the guest stars, loads of references to epic game-changers and an insistence that something/someone is “the heart of the show”. And he’ll finish by saying that everything is on the table, he doesn’t want to give away his story – but there will be a twist and a tease. And it’s the last comment that usually drives the fanbase mental….
I’d agree that he’s not the most impressive interviewee – but honestly, in 3 years of following the show I can count the number of genuinely insightful comments about the show that have come directly from cast or crew on the fingers of one hand. They get asked the same questions and tend to give pat answers. Seems like it’s just the nature of the beast.
I’m pretty excited about everything we’re hearing, I think this season will be a lot of fun. Fedak does often exasperate me; I think he like to build the suspense and tension, but of course, that’s not at all what I watch his show for. So I always have to read between the lines to figure out where he’s really going. But at this point I think I’m used to it, and I’m very excited about what’s coming.
There’s a very short sneak peek of 5×02 up on spoilertv.com, chucktv.net, and nbc.com. Casey and Chuck are both funny. No Morgan in sight for you Morgan-haters. (The show is titled Bearded-Bandit, so you should probably brace yourselves tonight anyway.) However after watching the sneak peek a third time, I think the best thing is the super quick, silent scolding Sarah gives Chuck before they sit down. She’s got the wife thing down.
After rereading the multiple versions of the Fedak concall one thing really sticks out to me that didn’t the first time that I want to comment about. In the call when he talks about 5.08 he mentions that for a while he didn’t think they would have time to do the Sarah’s mom story in these last thirteen. The more I think about that fact the more it bothers me. He didn’t think they had time to address the IMO single most important back story element this season but he has time for what looks like 3 episodes of the ridiculous Morgansect? Are you kidding me? Sarah centric episodes have always been some of the best and most successful episodes of the series and yet they didn’t think they had time to do this critical story but wanted to focus 3 episodes on the bromance and whiny mopey Chuck.
He has gotten better in his interviews and 5.08 has the potential to be a top 5 episode but it is interesting that it may not have even happened. But they were devoted to an element of the story that has been pointed out in virtually every posting about this interview that the fans of the show are really not buying into and not happy about the idea at all for three freaking episodes. I know they send out screeners all the time but I think part of the reason they sent out this 3 episode screener was to try and manage the fallout over Morgansect by showing it ends after ep. 3. The reaction after Cliffhanger and at Comicon had them going into spin mode again.
I really have high hopes for 5.08 but it is really tough to think that it may not have happened but yet I have to sit through at least 3 of the precious last 13 episodes focused on the ridiculous idea of Morgansect. Even with all of his defense of the great comedy Josh brings to it, it is simply an element of the story that I have absolutely no interest in and to think what I wanted most from season 5 may never have happened is really disturbing.
Uplink I think the deal has a lot to do with the collaborative nature of the writing process. Fedak is the show runner and calls most of the shots, but he really doesn’t “get” Sarah, or at least he doesn’t get that she is the most popular character among fans and her episodes have always been the best received.
But the show is written by a whole staff. And several of those staff writers clearly do get Sarah and what she means to fans. So while Fedak may be plotting out the season he likely gives little thought to Sarah because he doesn’t really care. But when they start hashing out details I believe there are several voices in the writer’s room saying “we need to do ….” I think since several of the writers do like writing Sarah they DO start thinking about her role in things and what parts of her story do matter.
I don’t think we need to worry about any of this. I would guess similar things happen in a lot of writers’ rooms. The show runner’s original concept is fleshed out and refined by the staff that is there to do exactly that; make the story work and be entertaining.
I remember discussing here long ago the idea that Chuck could have worked and even been a fun show if there was no female lead, if Chuck had a male handler and apart from the occasional guest star had no romantic angle to the show at all. But obviously Yvonne Strahovski and Sarah Walker became a huge part of the show, due to some good writing and brilliant casting she is the fan favorite (I know she isn’t EVERYONE’s favorite character; but polls I’ve seen indicate 60+% of fans call her their favorite character on the show).
So while I’ve come to like a lot of things about Fedak’s work and I mostly do appreciate him as a show runner; I’m glad he has a staff of writers, some of whom are more closely in tune with my taste than Fedak himself is.
Dave – In the long Fedak interview on Chucktv.net, he is asked a ? about Chuck’s journey, his answer surprised me, and was given without the usual brutal Fedak jab once he realized he might have said too much. He said a whole lot in this answer, with little if no qualification, stunning isn’t it?
But to your point about writing for Sarah, I think he now is telling a story for Sarah and Chuck, it is THEIR journey, and he now no more writes for Sarah than he writes for Chuck, just like I wanted since season the final of s2. Here is the section I am talking about, after the first 3 or 4 sentences, beginning with And then the love story …..
http://chucktv.net/
“Q: What sort of a journey is Chuck on this season?
CF: We’ve always viewed the show from the Chuck emotional journey in the sense that if you look at the first season of the show, it’s about a guy who doesn’t know what he wants to do with his life, it’s the quarter-life crisis. And over the intervening four seasons, we’ve taken him from the guy who doesn’t know what he wants to do to he knows what he wants to do but it’s really hard, he wants to be a spy. And then the love story with Sarah Walker. I think that the show has very much become Sarah and Chuck’s emotional journey now, because when you get married you start sharing your dreams with wife and your husband, so this season of the show is about the intermingling of those dreams. About Sarah and Chuck wanting that house, thinking about their future, wanting this company to work. And over the course of this season, realizing just how crazy it is to want to think about the future, to think about the house, think about maybe a family, and to also be in a private spy company. Unlike The A-Team or unlike the Equalizer or unlike other shows about people in private industry doing detective or spy work, our team is also considering the future from the family perspective. I think that’s the neat thing about this season, is how that family perspective effects the spy team and the missions that they want to go on and who they want to be. So it’s very much about Chuck and Sarah and their dreams.”
Dave, i agree with your assessment on fedak and here’s why. i have read several times that the show was going to be more mythology related, which was fedaks baby. schwartz convinced him early on to go the relationship/ character route and changed his mind. that implies at least to me that characters are not his strength.
on the sarah part being popular i agree. i feel it’s the way the others characters were written from the beginning. these are just my thoughts and opinions. i don’t think the average 18-49 yo male likes the wimpy sad sack person chuck was at the begining, casey had no personality and was willing to kill chuck right from the start. sarah was hot and bad ass. i think that’s why people gravitated to her so fast. if she was written like casey a hard core spy and emotionless. i don’t think she would have been as popular.
i do think that a show heavier on mythology that was done well and focused less on the wt/wt would have retained it’s audience better. that’s what sent the shows viewers off the rails, season 3.
Jason I really do like that interview, he certainly says a lot of the right things. And I do think he wants to tell that family story now. But the fact he still can say the bromance is the heart of the show and do an initial season outline with no Sarah episodes shows to me that he still doesn’t quite understand his own creation (that is, understand how it’s received as opposed to how he sees it himself).
And of course I do not mean to say the issue is a major problem, the end product has generally been awesome. It’s just that so many of us immediately think “Chuck and Sarah” or even just “Sarah” when we think of Chuck, while I think Fedak mostly just thinks “Chuck” when he thinks Chuck. Of course that’s his right, it’s his show. I’m just glad he’s not the only one doing the writing!
Army I agree with most of that, except I’m not so sure the show would have done better by being less character driven. I know the original concept of Chuck’s character isn’t to your liking; but I can’t even tell you how much I loved his character from the very start. He is the sort of nerd I completely relate to, right from trying to escape his own birthday party (I’ve done that more than once myself!). He’s an alpha nerd, that is the sort that other nerds look up too. And he’s self aware about it; I loved how in Tango when he learned the woman’s part, he immediately knew it. He didn’t try to make things worse by bluffing, or throwing a fit. He just recognized the problem and called it what it was. I love that moment, and that episode.
I would agree that for the first two seasons Sarah was the most balanced character, and a truly awesome traditional heroic character. She was fearless, capable, had a good view of duty and right and wrong, and still had some contact with human feelings and emotion. While Casey was more a caricature until late S2.
But I think it is those characters and the attention to character growth that made this show intoxicating for so many of us. It’s hard to say how things might have different if the show were more mythology or story driven. Typically, serialized shows do shed viewers pretty fast; and unless the story elements were handled A LOT differently that was never going to be a good hook for Chuck. In the end, I think it was the passion of our affection that led so many of us to fight for this show and keep it on the air. And we’ve accomplished what I believe is a first; a show saved by a fan campaign lived for THREE more seasons!
By the way, happy birthday Army!
dave first thanks. second, i didn’t say not character driven, i said less wt/wt. to me that’s a big difference. you can have all the growth you want, look at bones and castle to see that, but in both the relationship is not at the forefront like in chuck.
Dave – If you carefully read that same Fedak interview, Fedak specifically does not use the word ‘the’ when talking about the bromance. He also follows in the next paragraph by saying, after Chuck / Morgan, we still tell a Casey story and Chuck / Sarah. I am spec’ing that the purpose for Morgansect isn’t for the intersect lore or for Chuck, but is for everyone to take Morgan seriously, not as a misfit who tags along on Chuck’s dates, to Chuck’s house for Thanksgiving or Xmas, or now on missions. Could it have been done better, sure, but I think it is a worthwhile s5 story.
Army – interesting that you mention forefront and Castle, this is something that struck me several weeks ago. I like Castle, each week, the same, no ups, no downs, but all of a sudden this season FOR ME, the weekly adventures aren’t as important, the ‘story’ has pushed the weekly procedural to the background.
Jason well i don’t ship anyone, so i have a different view, but if castle keeps going the way it is and heads in chuck direction, i’ll be done soon.
Okay, that is what you said. And I completely agree they overdid that. I’m not a fan of that style anyway, and S3 clearly took it a step too far for a significant number of fans. And it made the whole issue far too important; the romance became the issue that dominated all show discussion for most of that season. Which led to the initial fracturing of the fan base.
Although I suspect that particular story arc was a Schwartz concept, not Fedak (this is my perception, I truly don’t know the genesis of it). But my guess is that Schwartz has involved himself more in his other projects (and left Chuck to Fedak) since his pet triangle arc was scorned by so many viewers.
But for all that; I think Fedak’s love of story and mythology combined with Schwartz’ love of characters and relationships was the defining blend that makes Chuck what it is. That blend is why we love it so, and is also the source of our occasional frustration.
Jason I think I line up with Uplink more on this one (although I don’t dislike the Morgansect as much he seems to!). That is, I get the idea and see some value to it, I just wish they hadn’t chosen to make so much of Morgan in the final season. The gist of what I’ve been getting at is that Chuck and Sarah is always where I want the primary focus to be. I’m okay with all the convoluted sub-plots and secondary characters, I’m just not nuts about Morgan being so central to a major arc as the series winds down.
Now I never want to make too big a thing of that. I loved Zoom. I laughed often and had a great time. It’s just that if I were in Fedak’s shoes certain things would be different (less Morgan, more Sarah).
I’ve kind of lost where I am in this thread, but a couple of things.
Dave, I agree CS is the main pull for me and the character stuff, but I’m really glad for the other as well. I like that there’s a spy story and some mythology. I was thinking a bit earlier how, like you said, it’s the combination that is so unique, and it’s what makes me love it uniquely.
In Zoom, it’s interesting how they worked Sarah in. She was in extra scenes on the missions and with Morgan, just not that much with Chuck. I was fine with it, in that I thought her scenes with Morgan were really entertaining. However, I wouldn’t want that blend to continue all season. It worked in the premier for a variety of reasons but wouldn’t hold up over time.
The episode also clearly showed, even though they weren’t on screen that much together, that Chuck and Sarah are the core of everything. Chuck was clearly the leader, and nothing would go anywhere without him. Sarah held things together in a different way, even more than Casey. She followed Chuck’s lead perfectly on the bluff. She held it all together at the racquet club, telling Morgan to stretch things out and stepping in when it was needed. She was intuitive and made the missions work from an entirely different end that Chuck did. She was the one who was able to buy them more time at Bale’s party by talking (Chuck has rubbed off on her). They are the glue of everything in all ways about the show and the missions. It was obvious how well they work together whether they are physically together or not. Their partner vibe was strong.
Dave, its not that I dislike Morgan at least not now. I did dislike him in season 1 and 2 and found him incredibly annoying. I would have been perfectly content with him staying in Hawaii with Anna after season 2. But from Beard on I grew to like him and he was ok for most of S4. But he was always a non-essential character to me. I like Big Mike and Beckman more than Morgan. I just hate the idea of so much focus on him in these precious final 13. There are hundreds of stories I would rather see than Morgansect.
I agree with you as I’m sure you can guess that if it was me there would be more Sarah and less Morgan. But I will take it a step further that if it were me there would be more Ellie and less Morgan. To me she is #4 on my list of characters I love about the show. She is the most under utilized actor on the show and should have been a bigger part of the series early on. If anyone needed a 3 episode arc in this final 13 its Ellie Woodcomb.
Morgan found his niche last season and any expansion on that makes him back to being annoying for having such an important role here as we begin this final run.
Dave – sorry for not letting go, and far be it from me to defend Morgan or Fedak, but they are getting Morgan out of the way, then Casey, so they can finish on Sarah and Chuck’s story, perfect, isn’t it.
One thing I learned from s4, the show isn’t changing to be a Chuck and Sarah procedural, it is a convoluted mish mash of sub plots and silly stupid B characters and guest stars, over which Chuck (and now Chuck and Sarah) are interwoven into.
My point earlier, I feel it is a huge concession on Fedak’s part to admit, Sarah and Chuck are now on the journey, not just Chuck.
And to repeat, Morgan is first because he is the least important, not the most important. This season is like a casting call, Morgan is taking his bows first, Chuck and Sarah holding hands and last! But, unfortunately, for some reason, I picture Morgan jumping up and down behind Chuck and Sarah trying to get our attention, as the curtain closes???
Yeah Thinkling, ditto all. Its funny to me how much the casual viewers I’ve spoken with synch up with us this; They all seem to have a “well that was fun, but when does Chuck get the Intersect back?” sort of attitude about it.
Uplink as always our attitudes are similar, just not quite identical. Maybe I’m misrepresenting you, if so, sorry. I just was under the impression I enjoyed Zoom a lot more than you did. I’m not thrilled Morgan is front and center for these next two either, but I’m ready to enjoy the episodes regardless. And its always sort of been this way, from the very start Morgan’s role was allways a little bigger than I prefer. I would also agree they found a great role for Morgan after Beard, I wish they’d maintained status quo on that.
I’m not quite sure about rank ordering the other characters. I mean no doubt its Sarah, Chuck, Casey for the big three. But I think I’m okay with Morgan as number four, I’d just prefer a more distant four! I think I actually like Devon better than Ellie, I know, heresy! (and its hard to say, Devon is sort of a one-joke character, so more Devon might not really work) I like Ellie’s more dramatic range at times, but ohhhh did I hate that “making Chuck quit” bit from Ring II. I would place all the other characters as purely minor characters (Beckman, Big Mike, Lester, Jeff); occasionally fun or useful, but not fully developed personalities. I have no opinion about Alex (my wife doesn’t like her).
Yeah, I’ll echo what Dave said. I think CF has reluctantly had to admit to Sarah/Yvonne’s popularity.
Maybe I missed something, but I thought the thinking that there might not be time for it was before they got a S5. I thought that Sarah’s mom was being talked about for S5 way back in S4, when S5 became a possibility. If not then he’s really slow on the uptake.
I also thought it was interesting that he said that it soon [S1 still] became apparent that Chuck was [also] about Chuck and Sarah’s love story. I have thought all along that they didn’t envision how much Sarah and the “love story” were going to take on a life of their own. As we’ve discussed that’s due to various things: casting, Yvonne, and the YZ chemistry. You just can’t predict such things. They knew Yvonne was perfect for the role, but they didn’t know how perfect she would be in it or all that she would bring to it. She’s amazing. They couldn’t predict the chemistry or the fans reaction. I guess it could even be a bit disheartening to them when the co-star’s character and the b story overtake the main character and the a story. But that’s sort of what’s happened. I’ve thought for a long time how it reminds me of two women who became more popular than their extremely important husbands: Jackie K and Princess Di. One man embraced his wife’s popularity, and the other seemed to resent it (forgive me if I’m wrong). It was the better part of wisdom to embrace it. CF seems to have reluctantly embraced Sarah/Yvonne’s popularity. … Now, if he would only let her do his interviews. 😉
CF still seems a wee bit out of touch with fans (not nearly as bad as before, though) I think the S3 reaction took him totally off guard. The same is probably true of the reaction to Morgansect. (I would have ended Cliffhanger right before Morgan actually put on the sun glasses. That would have given them some wiggle room and a chance to gauge the fans’ reaction.) That said, I’m fine with it (glad it won’t go all season, though). I think it will be interesting and show what Chuck is made of.
One quibble … I didn’t think Chuck was whiney or mopey.
Thinkling…i don’t think he’s the only one out of touch. here’s a tweet from JS…You can’t judge Morgan as INTERSECT story yet. I predict you will dig in 2 episodes.”
i don’t think that’s something you say if your idea is a success. it’s something you say if people don’t like it. which was clear on most if not all blogs from the finale.
Yeah, it’s a veiled confession that he realizes everyone doesn’t dig it like he does, and he’s trying to defend it and keep people hanging in there.
I’m willing to enjoy the ride and see the merits, even though it might not have been my first choice. Morgansect hit people wrong in a couple of ways … Morgan and the Intersect. Some people resent that Chuck doesn’t have it or that someone (anyone) else does. They think it detracts from Chuck’s specialness and violates the mythology of Chuck as a unique Intersect host.
I can see how Morgansect will ultimately highlight Chuck’s specialness. If we get a sort of parallel of the Hartley/Volkoff plot, it think that would be great. I’m OK with others uploading an Intersect, because the technology has presumably advanced quite a bit since the days when it fried everyone’s brains.
The other thing is Morgan, himself, and the bromance which have mixed popularity. I think casual viewers probably have a higher tolerance for the bromance than some of the avid fans on this site, but I don’t think it’s as popular with fans in general as it is with CF and ZL. So for some fans (OK, maybe a lot of fans) S4 was already meeting their Morgan threshold. With Morgan having the Intersect, they fear not being able to tolerate the new Morgan threshold.
It sounds to me like there’s going to be plenty of really good stuff, and that Morgansect will fade into the background or go away. So I’m buckled in for the full ride. 🙂
A couple of things Think. I agree that Fedak has been reluctant to embrace the popularity of Sarah/Yvonne. I give them credit for abandoning Kayla in the pilot but throughout the series I think he seems out of touch with how popular she is still. His comments about Phase Three are a clear example of that. Plus keeping her virtually out of the finale was bizarre. I understand the story they were telling but why would you virtually write out your most popular character in what could be the shows final episode.
I agree he is better these days but I took his comments about Sarah’s mom as specific to S5. He had said last year clearly they were not going there. But to me at least that would have been story #1 on the storyboard from the beginning of breaking this season. Morgansect would have been story 5000 and been rejected immediately upon it being suggested. But instead we are getting 3 episodes of the precious last 13 focused on a story that very few fans are truly excited and interested in seeing. They may enjoy it but even those folks I have talked to that are ok with it said they never would have picked it and it was a mistake.
I found the in the van Chuck and his looks when Morgan first Zooms to be very mopey. I mean I understand them and I hope it forces him to abandon that low self confidence model once and for all.
Fedak and Co have created such incredible characters that I love with a passion but I really wonder sometimes if he actually watches the show when it airs. How anyone could be shocked about the fan reaction from S3 or from Phase 3 is really beyond me if you just watch what’s up on screen. And to think that Morgansect deserves 3 episodes at least and you may not have time for Sarah’s mom is ludicrous.
Incidentally, Fedak could totally save Sarah by pulling a Revenge of the Bartowski (and probably some other fics, but this is the first that springs to mind) when Sarah’s mother doesn’t refer to her as Sarah… or Samantha, but a completely different name, showing us that the horrible name reveal was in fact… well, not as horrible as we all initially thought.
The thing is didn’t they let Yvonne pick the name ? I think there was an interview a couple years back where she said that was always the name in the back of her head or something. I don’t see them letting her do that then going back on it.
Yeah, I got told the same thing. Still, I don’t think Sam fits. Samantha, maybe… Sarah fits the best and I’d be very skeptical of any other name than Sarah. But before people start saying that it’s the name that they’ve introduced the character too us, I think Alexander Coburn would’ve been a better fit for Casey. Oh well.
Yes Yvonne did pick the name, and you’re right it does make it unlikely they would “undo” it.
But I love the idea Aerox is getting at. If I remember correctly, in Nervert’s story Sarah reveals that she changed her mind and lied to Shaw at the last minute. And it turns out to be great fun, because when she reveals her birth name to Chuck its one of the most awful names you’ve ever heard. Keeping it secret likely had nothing to do with personal security, it was pure embarrassment!
Fifika Piotrowski (I knew this without looking it up. Yes, I’ve read that story WAAAAAAY to many times.)
Also explained as: God Willing (or something like that), but translated by Nervert (and Sarah by proxy) as “Too bad you didn’t have a boy, better luck next time.
Arrrggghhh, You’re not supposed to post that in a public place Aerox! Now one very ticked and very dangerous AU Sarah will be hunting you to the ends of the Earth! Hopefully she’ll only filet your screen name.
That’s cool, she just got engaged (when counted in the time passed in the story) so she should be somewhat mellow. I should be able to survive with minor burns, cuts and possibly some hair removal. And at least it was worth it just to once more remind people of that ridiculous name 😀
My feeling is they will completely ignore the name. They said that Sarah has not talked to her mom in 5 years. But that means that 5 years ago she DID talk to her. And 5 years ago Sarah was the name she was using. So my belief is that Emma will simply call her Sarah or by a pet name and Sam or Samantha will never be uttered once in the episode.
The name reveal was the biggest mistake they ever made IMO and in most fans mind I believe so there is no way especially after they virtually retconned it out of existence with the prenup we will ever hear the name Sam or Samantha ever again I believe.
As we have learned in FF the name reveal can’t really be explained or resolved properly but Fogh came as close as you can come. But it still makes no sense and I just don’t think Fedak has the courage to try and address it and admit his mistake.
Again I agree with all of that. I will really be surprised if it’s ever brought up.
I’ve always thought of the whole name reveal as the same way that Fogh thought of it. As a matter of fact, one of my first fics (I think it was A Day Late, which was my first and almost definitely last foray into song fic writing) deals with the whole Shaw issue in pretty much the same lines as Fogh has his story going.
Also, I’m most definitely sure they won’t adress it, but it would be a great way of fixing the super awkward mistake that is the name reveal.
thing is, you can’t fix it. even if they do say a different name most fans will simply see through it.
Army I think it could be fixed a few ways. Nervert and fogh have both taken good stabs at it. Nervert’s may have been a (very) minor retcon (she lied, so not really a retcon); while fogh really had Chuck and Sarah talk about it. It didn’t undo anything, but explained a lot of Sarah’s messed up thought process. It worked pretty well, but ultimately comes back to Chuck’s ability to forgive (which we know is great anyway). It’s unlikely to happen mainly because TPTB would never allow a 5 minute scene of sometimes painful dialogue on the show. The scene can never be undone, but it can be fixed. But on a show that bills itself mainly as a comedy I don’t see them ever choosing to go back to it.
They don’t want to spend 5 minutes on painful dialogue? How I wish that was true. I was holding my face in anguish during Mask and Fake Name. Also, does painful dialogue constitute awkward dialogue as well? Because if so, I’ve got a few moments in season 4… and 5 😛
Dave say they do it like suggested. will that make the episode any better? will it change how everyone felt? my bet is no, so that’s why i say it can’t be fixed. again just another way of seeing things. they can make it more plausible or whatever you want to call it. but it can never undo what it did, thus not fixed.
I never implied that it could “fix” that scene. All I said was that it would save Sarah’s story. Or at the very least, would allow people to edit the wikipedia page that says, “And then she told Shaw her name” to “And then she told Shaw her name, but it was a lie, so Season 3 Sarah wasn’t as emotionally inept as we were led to believe, even though we all thought so for 1.5 seasons.”
Army nothing can fix Fake Name. But they can “fix” how badly Sarah screwed up. It could make it easier for many fans to get over it. At this point it won’t make one iota of difference in ratings. But I think it could make a difference in how we remember the show and Fedak himself (it would make a difference to me). And since he called S5 a love letter to fans….
But my money is still on them not touching it. Since the start of S4 they’ve taken a lighter tone on the relationship, and have pointedly ignored some of the more hated aspects of S3. With so little time left, I don’t see them spending any of it on something they would likely rather forget.
I’d be fixed just fine by Sarah’s mom calling her Chris (I think that was Ladd’s name on Angel’s). Chuck smile’s as Sarah tells her, ‘Mom I legally changed my name to Sarah Walker when I joined the CIA’. Sarah’s mom looks upset like she caused trouble, Chuck butts in, ‘Don’t worry Emma, I know all about Sarah’s name before she changed it’
Done, fixed, 2 lines, over, those who wanna hate will hate, those who wanna love will love, I’d be tickled pink!
First off, thanks for the kind words on here. Secondly, I’m in the camp that rather has them accept it for what it was, than has them changing a name. In fact, for me if they would now make it seem like the whole Sam thing was a lie, it would make it worse. They could have done it, but then they should have taken the whole season in a different direction, and they should have done it sooner. Either way, to me the betrayal to the fans would only be worse if they make it seem like she lied now. I don’t think she lied, she looked dead serious to me, And if she did, they let the fans suffer in misery over this for nearly two seasons, and they let Chuck suffer for nearly two seasons. Doesn’t sound like Sarah to me. Fedak should have acted like a grown up, and handled his humongous screw up like a man. Go out into the public, admit you messed up, make an attempt to correct it, and move on. People would have respected that, unlike this constant let’s ignore our mistakes we get now.
Even if they retcon it somehow, it would still mean we missed out on what should have been an amazing moment in tv history. No amount of retcon can change that.
Ok, I’ll step out on the Chuckwin’s law ledge again. I’m not trying to convince anyone, because I know virtually no one agrees with what I am about to say… Sarah’s name reveal was, as Fogh put it, “an amazing moment in TV history.” It was not amazing in any way that the fans wanted. Instead it was a brutal, profound moment that showed how hurt, scared, and human Sarah was. It was a sign that Sarah had hit rock bottom. Both Chuck and Sarah needed to do that in the story that the writers were trying to tell. (Note, I said “in the story they were trying to tell”, not that they needed to do that in the story the fans wanted them to tell.) The fact that fans reacted so badly to it shows they were successful from a story telling perspective, just not from a show/audience building perspective.
The other thing that probably makes me different is Sarah’s cold blooded shooting at the end of Santa Claus will always bother me more than the name reveal.
Don’t tell anyone, Jeff. But I agree with you. Well, I’d switch the order back, but yes, TPTB did exactly what they intended. The name reveal was horrific, brutal, profound and amazing story telling.
We weren’t supposed to like it.
Guys you know I respect you but just not buying it. The name reveal was pure melodrama. It was a risk/reward scenario where there was virtually no reward and incredibly huge risk. A risk that failed in spades. If they really felt it was “profound and amazing storytelling” then why was it virtually ignored going forward? Why did they take something that had been a part of 6 prior episodes and then throw it away cheaply and then use it for one dramatic moment in an episode they didn’t even know they were going to have?
It was an attempt to shock and IMO piss off the fans but it didn’t move the story forward and then was dropped like a hot potato because they saw the fan reaction, never addressed it and basically took the cowardly way out of ignoring it.
If it really was an “amazing moment in TV” then where was the conviction to stand behind it? Where was its impact on the future story? Where was the lesson they both learned shown? Where did they address the pain it caused these characters? None of those things happened so I don’t see how you can call it an amazing moment in TV unless you mean it as an amazingly stupid moment in TV.
I agree with Fogh, it was a betrayal of the fans who invested in a storyline for 2 and a half seasons where the story of Sarah’s real name was a part of 6 episodes. Helicopter, Wookie, Break up, Cougars, DeLorean and then Fake Name. Then after the “amazing moment in TV” its gets mentioned once by the sleazeball she said it to in Subway. Where is the courage of profound and amazing storytelling there? It was cheap melodrama to try and sell a failed idea and a betrayal of the fans. They took what could have been one of the most “amazing and profound TV moments” and threw it away for nothing. It can’t be fixed and trying to fix it is even more of an insult. If Fedak was a man of courage and conviction to his storytelling he would have addressed it but he didn’t because the fan reaction was far worse than he thought because he simply didn’t set it up properly or get us to believe in the bottoming out of Sarah enough because it was so contrived and forced from the very beginning. How were we supposed to believe.in the sincerity of Sarah’s emotional state when we saw the ridiculous 180 degree flipflop the week before? We are supposed to then believe that after 1 week with Shaw she feels enough of a connection with him and has hit bottom enough with a loss of herself that she breaks every spy rule she has ever been taught? Please. It was not profound storytelling but cheap lazy storytelling and deprived the fans of a payoff they had invested in for 2 and a half years.
uplink2, I know Joe and I are out in the wilderness and I know most people agree with you. However, the writers did address the name twice (albeit very weakly) in Subway and Family Volkoff. In Subway, Shaw called Sarah ‘Sam’ in his office, and she got pissed and beat him down. He was rubbing in one of her two low points (the other being what she thought happened with the red test). She didn’t want a reminder, so she slugged him.
The prenup (which I know a lot of people hated) had her full name. It was a legal document, so her legal name was Sarah Lisa Walker.
uplink, i’m not on either side of the S3 debate so both opinions sound good to me. the one problem they had and its big, was the episodes were almost done being filmed prior to them airing. they knew after one episode the direction the fans were headed but it was to late to stop the train wreck that was about to happen. hence all the trust us posts and things that went on during the season. they told their story then just like morgansect now. in both case it was a very unpopular idea and they went on with it. it’s to late to stop morgansect same as S3 shaw arc. to defend CF just a bit JS was in charge of the relationship direction and CF does the mythology stuff.
like this year they are telling their story. they have 13 episodes to run. yet they make three centered on morgan that we know of and only one for sarah. to me that makes no sense. but it’s done. i just wonder what these three episodes are leading to for the fans. they have proved countless times chuck is special so i don’t see the need to do that anymore. will they advance the plot going on or will they be mostly forgotten later on, like it proves chuck was special. you’ll have to see on that one i suppose.
I think it was a total fubar and TPTB knew it before it even ran. After Mask they started with all the interviews and statements of “you’ll need to stick it out to the end” and “Fake Name won’t really fix anything…”. Not exactly a ringing endorsement of their own work. I think after Mask they realized they’d created something far too dark for this fandom and were reduced to begging us to ride it out. I’d call it the lowest moment on any TV show that I actually continued to watch (and that says a lot for someone who suffered through 10 seasons of Smallville!). It actually turns my stomach to think about it. So yeah I’d still appreciate some effort to fix it; but I’m also okay with completely ignoring it, in my deluded little mind S3 never occurred anyway…
Also, apparently one of the most talented Dutch football players to have ever walked the pitch is now the brother of the bad guy in tonights episode (Wesley Sneijder). Guy Lafleur callback?
Lol. I’m glad I’m not the only one who noticed that
Here are a few interesting teasers about the next episode:
http://www.aceshowbiz.com/news/view/00045044.html
‘Sarah suspects that the Interest is malfunctioning in Morgan, while at the same time she helps Casey navigate his relationship with Gertrude. Meanwhile, Captain Awesome makes a startling revelation about Jeff and Lester.’
Sarah is helping Casey woo Gertrude, my how our spy girl and spy boy have grown up. A startling revelation about Jeff and Lester, I am not sure I want to know? Morgansect is malfunctioning, yikes, I never saw that one coming.
thanks!
I really can’t imagine what would be startling about Jeff and Lester.
I’m really hoping Sarah’s dating advice is played for laughs. I can see Sarah/Casey scenes going either way, but this situation just screams for the funny.
You’re probably right there Dave, but keep in mind she has most likely spent a fair bit of time with Ellie as well as Chuck, she’d be an expert by now lol.
I can image it now…
Sarah: “You’ve dated spies before. What about Ilsa?”
Casey: “I didn’t know she was a spy.”
Sarah: “Well, I’ve dated spies before, it can work.”
Casey: *Humorous grunt*
Sarah: “Ok, maybe Bryce is a bad example, but I _married_ a spy.”
Casey: “Chuck’s different. He has lady feelings.”
Sarah (doesn’t disagree): “And Verbanski doesn’t?”
In response to that dialogue, MNIJAIL
Casey: “Please, Walker. The last spy you dated ended up dangling you off a bridge, trying to kill you.”
Sarah: “Casey, I still have the picture of what Carina did to you. We both know you’d like the kind of woman who would dangle you off a bridge and try to kill you.”
Casey: “I could tell you about it, but the last time I did, you damn near killed us with your car. Pass.”
LMAO
Another blog had a fan report that during a studio tour the guide gave them two spoilers about ‘vs the baby’ ep. Interpret away, but from my POV, seems like the team will be in Hungary, that Sarah will be pushing a baby carriage, and Sarah will possibly be acting rogue from Casey and Chuck for part of the episode:
http://www.fanforum.com/f15/chuck-s-s-106-wait-finally-over-63026367/
“I took the WB tour with a bunch of Chuck fans today. Our tour guide was cool and really knew Chuck.
While we were touring one of the outside locations on the lot, she told us how during the Episode “Chuck vs. the Baby”, they made up one of the streets to be Hungary. She described two scenes she knew about:
* Sarah gets on a bus while Chuck and Casey chase after, miss the bus, and wonder why she did so.
* Sarah is pushing a baby carriage. A strange man approaches. She pulls a gun on him.
“
hmmm intriguing. Maybe Sarah’s already been contacted by her former Handler. A little callback to Tic Tac perhaps??
Could be, but that’d imply that Sarah keeps even more secrets and I don’t really know how I’d feel about that. It’d make the super awkward point of Chuck and Sarah being the most implausable TV couple that there is atm, valid.
I like the idea of Sarah’s Tic Tac, as long as she doesn’t have an abandoned kid somewhere.
I’m ok with Sarah “keeping secrets” from this standpoint. Her entire life until she met Chuck was about secrets. If she were to tell Chuck everything, they would be talking for a couple of years. Sarah is not the type of person to randomly volunteer information like Chuck is. But she has gotten to the point where if Chuck gives her the tiniest of prodding and reassurance, she will tell him her secrets and other embarrassing thoughts. I still think she will keep a couple types of secrets from Chuck.
The first is like when she talked to Casey during the rock climbing. She was keeping the confidence of a friend and trying to gather more information (like a spy) before deciding if Chuck needed to know.
The second has to do with an extreme personal regret or obligation. Sarah has always shown great pride in her work. If she messes up, she feels compelled to personally fix it. If fixing it would put Chuck’s life at risk, I could still see her hiding it from Chuck. I’m not saying she should do that. It just fits her personality. They can’t have her acting perfect all of the time, and they can’t always have Chuck being the one to apologize. That would be boring.
Some good points Jeff. I think in the end, Sarah is still all about protecting Chuck. So she may play gatekeeper with some information (the Verbanski job offer) when she still isn’t sure of the agenda, and knows her husband would worry about it.
She does seem to practice full disclosure pretty well, but it still goes against her nature and she will likely always be careful about how she manages information. As far as her more distant past goes, I would agree she probably has not briefed Chuck on her full history. And we can only guess that they’ve had some talks about names and birthdays, which leads to my theory on “May 1982.”. I think that is legally when “Sarah Walker” was born, but that may make her a couple years younger than “Samantha ????”
And Chuck and Sarah talking for years is a bad thing because…?
I like Chuck and Sarah as a couple. I have been a shipper since almost the beginning. But they are without a doubt the least communicative couple I have ever seen on TV and it has stretched my suspension of disbelief to the breaking point several times since they got together. And Sarah doing her own version of Tic Tac would probably push me past that breaking point.
They can’t have her acting perfect all of the time, and they can’t always have Chuck being the one to apologize.
Er, since when? I think I can count on one hand the number of times Sarah has actually apologized in the last two seasons and still have several fingers left over.
They haven’t been dating and married for years, yet, so they would not have had time for all of those discussions. Sarah is the type of person who would be happier pretending her years before Chuck did not happen. While Chuck always wants to know about Sarah’s past, he learned the right approach in Cougars: don’t push and he’ll eventually learn everything. It might take decades, but that is ok with him.
If all they did was sit on a couch and talk, the show would be very repetitive.
About Chuck being the one to always apologize, you made my point. Sarah has to make mistakes like getting on a bus and leaving Chuck behind to have a reason to apologize. She hasn’t made too many mistakes since Paris, and usually gets around to apologizing by the end of the episode. Early S3 mistakes don’t count. As much as everyone hated Shaw and the name reveal, Chuck was sleeping with Hannah and practically rubbing it in Sarah’s face. Having Sarah apologize to Chuck would have been absurd, and yet she came really close in Tic Tac.
Chuck knowing hardly anything about Sarah’s past and her reluctance about sharing even the smallest detail about whats going on in her head makes the relationship completely unbelievable at times. Sarah keeping something from Chuck isn’t the problem its she keeps everything from him and he’s only learned about it through other characters, over hearing it or twisting her arm. How many things has she shared on screen with him willingly? And no we don’t need an episode of them talking on screen about her past but it’d be nice to see the writers acknowledge it happened off screen at some point.
First, I never said they had been together for years. Second, there are plenty of ways to indicate that they have been talking offscreen, but the show never does. If anything, the show continuously implies the opposite and that they still don’t tell each other anything (though they’ve shown improvement on that front so far in S5). That is my point. Chuck and Sarah don’t talk to each other. They almost never talk about the big things until something has gone wrong and they’re really left with no other choice, and they’re just as bad with the small, couple-y things too. Many people were saying after Zoom how Chuck still doesn’t really understand Sarah at all, and it’s true. Know why? I think it’s because they barely communicate with each other what they’re really thinking.
Sarah is married now, she doesn’t have the luxury of going off on rogue missions just because she doesn’t want to discuss her past or she’s trying to protect Chuck. People going behind the backs of people they claim to care about in order to protect them or because they think they can’t handle things is one of the things that I dislike most about this show and it’s a plot point that this show uses often. It’s patronizing, condescending, and disrespectful, and I have no idea why the writers insist on acting like it’s some kind of noble gesture when it’s really like the exact opposite.
Having Sarah apologize to Chuck would have been absurd, and yet she came really close in Tic Tac.
Chuck had to apologize to Sarah multiple times during the Sham arc. Look, I’m not going to get into an S3 debate here, but there was a lot more Sarah owed Chuck an apology for than dating Shaw and telling him her name in S3 (which, for the record, is not part of what she should have apologized for). But it never happened. The show’s go-to move is to typically have Chuck overreact, act insecure/be neurotic, and then apologize even when Sarah is the one who is in the wrong. It’s part of the mythical, mysterious, unattainable vibe they work so hard to maintain for Sarah. Past show history has taught me not to expect much in this area.
A lot of people saw arm twisting in Zoom. I saw a cute, fluffy scene in which Chuck teased Sarah a little, Sarah got embarrassed, Chuck was understanding, and Sarah revealed a secret she had not even told her family when she was growing up. If anything, the relationship is less believable because they are getting along too well. House hunting behind Sarah’s back? She let him off easy. And if Carmichael Industries can buy a pinball machine for Castle, they can pay for her gas (plus it would help for corporate tax purposes).
I think I’m willing to assume they do talk when they aren’t on screen. Look at the issues with her upbringing, in the episodes involving her background she actually explains very little, and yet she says at other times “you know how I was brought up…”. That always suggests to me she has filled in the blanks on certain things about her past.
And while certain details of her past could still come up, she has seemed willing to talk about pretty much anything in the last season or so. If anything, she’s been even more open and forthcoming than Chuck; I mean Sarah has done nothing like the secret mom search or the lying about brain damage from the Intersect. When Sarah ran off to consult with dad, Chuck knew where she had gone.
And seriously, it’s not like any of us ever sit with our significant other and say “I’m going to tell you everything about my life…”. Typically these things come out over time with appropriate prompts, like in a couple weeks I expect I may hear a birthday memory from my wife that I’ve never heard before; because things come up on a birthday that don’t on other days.
Now I admit, I would love to get proof of this on screen; you know the scene where Chuck says “oh this has to do with what you were telling me about…”. Or I’d love to hear that Chuck actually knows when Sarah’s birthday is now. But I don’t need to hear this. I’m perfectly willing to assume they’re like a normal couple in this regard. I know Yvonne has said in interviews that Sarah has completely embraced married life; that combined with the happy, healthy relationship we’re seeing on screen leaves me perfectly comfortable saying I think they talk off screen.
And when it comes out that Sarah still has a big secret she hasn’t told Chuck anything about, I look forward to the story about what happened and how Sarah will make things right. And I’ll predict right now when that happens, it will be a situation we will all recognize as embarrassing to Sarah, and she will be greatly relieved when Chuck loves her just the same after as he did before.
And Jeff I agree entirely about the house hunting in Zoom, I thought it was a very sweet scene. What little blame I did see I would put on Chuck, I mean what sort of fool tries to keep a secret like that from their spouse? But given the sort of money they had, the house was not a big issue for them like it is for us mere mortals. If Chuck spent 15 million on an awesome home that wasn’t to Sarah’s liking, I think they would just put it back on the market and try again. Of course we’ve seen such a patient, gracious, and forgiving nature from Sarah chances are she never would have said a word of complaint anyway and just happily accepted Chuck’s gift.
I’d also mention that the whole thing just seems to be the sort of game they both enjoy. The only other seduction we’ve seen Sarah try on Chuck failed (Seduction Impossible), and yet Chuck said it wouldn’t work “this time” suggesting that Sarah has a pretty good record on getting information from Chuck. The whole thing just struck me as newly weds having fun with each other. Very funny and sweet scene.
It’s kind of funny, this discussion about what they do and don’t say to one another, because that was one of the things that I really liked about the jogging scene, that they talked. Leaving aside the whole domestic nature of the scene, Sarah starts by saying “us non-intersect spies have to find time to exercise” including the non-intersected Chuck as a spy, not something less. Then Chuck brings up something that is bothering him without any great drama and Sarah answers him simply and directly without making a big deal of it, real communication between a real couple.
If they can have this simple conversation on screen, it isn’t too big a stretch to think that they are having other conversations off screen. Having said that the existence of gaps in their information about each other isn’t too suprising either as it takes years to fill in all the blank spots.
Interesting converstions. I agree with Dave and Herder about the communication thing. I still learn things about my husband after 34 years. Of course, the discoveries were more frequent in the first couple of years. Sarah is reluctant to talk about things that dredge up hurt for her, yet she has showed a growing willingness to do so with Chuck. And I think we see the healing effect it has on her. The jogging scene indicates that they are getting better at it, as does the dream house conversation. I’m enjoying the level of maturity in their relationship and the security that marriage is giving both of them.
The dream house conversation I find particularly sweet. Once again Chuck and Sarah both want to give the other what she/he wants. Chuck knows the kind of life Sarah is used to: fast cars, exotic places. I mean the CIA was going to give him a villa in Rome. Naturally, since they have the money, he wants to give her something in that category. In her heart, that’s not what she wants. Now, though, she is a little reluctant to share the dream, because he obviously wants to give her something “better.” She doesn’t want to deprive him of his dream. That’s part of her reluctance. It’s the proposal all over again. She wants to give him the opportunity to give her what he thinks she wants, when in reality her desires are simple (Chuck and a cozy, homey, simple house). But at his prodding she shares her simple dream, a little embarrassed. When he accepts her dream as perfect, she says, “really?” This is one of those perfect Chuck moments. He surprises her by accepting her simple dream as perfect, even though most people with millions to spend on a house would dismiss the cozy house idea and go for the beach front villa. So when Chuck says he wants to buy Sarah her dream house, he means it (unlike Awesome and the washer/dryer fiasco).
@Thinkling,
Funny how we can see the same thing and draw completely different conclusions. I completely respect your opinion btw – but where you see sweetness, I see incoherent writing.
Yes, it’s cute that they both try and give each other what they want – but frankly, after 4 years, Chuck should know what Sarah wants on the big issues. And the reason it’s incoherent writing is because S1/S2 Chuck did know. That Chuck understood instinctively that Sarah wanted normal, simple – and real. No olives on pizza, beefburgers, chocolate croissants and a bracelet. Meals with Ellie and Awesome and game night. He understood the real girl behind the spy. He cared enough to pay attention – and that’s part of the reason she fell for him.
Now S4/S5 Chuck thinks the big proposal is what she wants. This Chuck somehow thinks that a 17 room house is Sarah’s dream home. It makes no sense. It’s a complete reversal of the instinctive understanding that Chuck had of Sarah in the early seasons – and it just makes him look like a different character to me – and one with considerably less perception and charm. This Chuck may love his wife – but he seems to have no idea about her any more.
Sarah may not be that communicative – but she’s been consistent when giving us a glance at the real girl. Her reaction to the bracelet. Cooking breakfast in the suburbs. Since they got together she’s made it clear she’s not interested in the trappings of the spy life – she just wants Chuck. The simple proposal. The ties in her hair for the practice vows. There’s more than enough clues there – and the previous incarnation of Chuck would have got them.
This is probably another preconception difference.
I think hamburgers and pizza toppings were easy in S1 and S2 because Sarah didn’t have to volunteer anything. Who doesn’t love a chocolate croissant? I actually think the bracelet is consistent with the T.I.T.S. plan. ‘Sarah’ loved the bracelet, but she wasn’t ready for it, fearing a potential 49-B and opening her heart. The bracelet was an over-the-top gift that Chuck didn’t realize she wasn’t ready for. How did she react? She shot an unarmed man in cold blood. Her reaction to the house was much better–only a few harsh words directed at Morgan. That shows growth! (Although maybe some people would have wanted her to shoot Morgan.)
Most people have a tendency of buying a house bigger than what they need, if they can. That is one of the many reasons for the housing bubble. So the big house idea seemed in-character to me because a lot of people do it. He was also letting Morgan do the research, so what else would you expect? Actually, if Chuck wasn’t looking for a big house, I would expect a lot of the haters would be complaining that Charah was still living in an Echo Park apartment when they should be living as millionaires in a mansion.
Considering their agreement in Honeymooners, their plan at the end of Cliffhanger, her enjoying living in the Governor’s mansion for a summer when growing up, and the fact Sarah still drives a Lotus (not a practical Toyota), Sarah doesn’t want simple all of the time. Chuck is still learning when Sarah wants simple and when she doesn’t. I think his fumbling around with wedding proposals and houses makes an entertaining story. And Sarah doesn’t appear to mind.
BigKev, I always enjoy your POV … makes me think.
Chuck did always engage Sarah in a real relationship. He “played detective” to figure out a lot about her: no olives, extra pickles, gardenias. She even told him some things, like that she was bad at relationships, didn’t have a good friend, the Burton Christmas Salvation Army con job, and a few other things. You can have a real life in any house. She didn’t want the over-the-top restaurant proposal, but she sure seemed genuinely enchanted with the French Chateau proposal. So, I’m not sure Chuck has enough Intel to know that she would want a simple house.
I just sort of took the scene at face value. I find it sweet that each wants to give the other what they want. I think it’s endearing that Chuck feels like she deserves the best and strives to giver her that and be the best he can for her. It parallels her vow that she will show him she deserves him.
I’m not saying you’re wrong. You may be right. I find it interesting to think about. I think we’ll see a lot of them learning each other’s dreams and being there for each other this season. I like the CS relationship this season. It’s the core, without necessarily being the focus. I like that a lot
Kev, I think it’s complicated. This is Sarah Walker, who clearly has a taste for some of life’s finer things. After all she lived in a top of the line hotel room for 3 years and replaced her Porshe with a Lotus. Not to mention her wardrobe. But it seems to me we got a little clue that I think actually fits nicely with her past and personality. She’s used to expensing everything to the CIA, as seen from her reflexive attempt to get her gas paid for as part of the mission. It fits with her dad’s influence and her taste for adventure. If someone else is picking up the tab, make the sucker pay for the best. The spy life is Sarah’s big adventure, and sharing it with Chuck on either the CIA’s or Volkoff’s dime was just another part of the adventure, so sure, private jet, sattelite, and fresh shrimp, till it starts to cut into the “nest egg”.
There is the part of Sarah that longs for a stable home and family. That part of her is far more homey and simple, and is still manifesting itself in new ways, so I could see Chuck seeing her self indulgences on somebody elses dime as reflecting her tastes when they are really just part of her adventure, not what she wants out of life when she settles down. I think we’ll see more of these sorts of things, like wanting a simple cozy house and enjoying a run in the park together as they set up the end of the adventure and Chuck and Sarah settling down out of the spy life.
Could just be Chuck and Casey trying to provide cover for her and getting left behind for some reason. I do like the idea of Sarah being the ferocious protector again, that role always suits her well.
Maybe Aerox, but it could be a scenario in which Sarah is perhaps forced into a situation, which would likely be resolved later in the episode.
I noticed that we didn’t get a synopsis last week for Hack Off, does that mean that we don’t get an episode on Black Friday. Although it would be kind of neat to have an episode about Black Friday airing on Black Friday I suspect all the networks go to repeats that day.
the episode was pushed a week. it’s not on black friday. it also pushed the Christmas episode till 2012.
No one runs original episodes of scripted series on Black Friday.
Sorry – non-US resident question – Black Friday is the day after Thanksgiving, right? Why is it called Black Friday?
Because it’s the biggest shopping day of the year. Many people have the day off and its the start of Xmas shopping season. It’s said that many retailers make their profits for the year on that day and, hence, are “in the black”. That’s an accounting term. Black Friday was part of the plot of Chuck vs. the Leftovers and other Chuck episodes. Didn’t you notice?
It’s also a weekend when many people travel to visit relatives. NBC has a family film already scheduled for that evening.
I think there’s a bit of double meaning with Black Friday too; since its often pure pandemonium in the retail sector. It can be “black” in both the accounting and total disaster (chaos) senses of the word.
I pretend I’m snowed in, even if it’s 50 degrees and balmy. I avoid all stores like the plague … hey maybe that’s where the “black” comes from.
Dave, as one who briefly worked retail after college I can confirm your suspicion. Chuck’s portrayal of Black Friday is frighteningly accurate.
Ernie, so does that mean you had spies and a pineapple situation, or just a pineapple situation?
Pineapple, all the way. Registers down and employees hiding. Might have been spies though, you never know.
Just something I noticed in the promo for Frosted Tips (not sure who else had noticed this) but it looks like there’s a fight scene between Chuck and Morgan. And it looks like Chuck is defending himself pretty well (who says he needs the intersect?)
Yeah, FT looks like it will be great, especially a Morgan/Chuck face-off
A second sneak peek has been posted:
Lol. Miniature Tom Selleck
I guess this would be number three.
Ausiello has revvealed that the title of 5.13 will be called Chuck VS The Goodbye. I’m very comfortable in saying that reading that brought a tear to my eye. It really is coming to an end.
Yeah I’ve been coming to grips myself! I guess I’m glad this season is getting spread out with Thanksgiving and Christmas breaks, makes it a little easier to savor for a while.
Thanks for that news, Uplink.
You probably realize that I’ve been steeling myself for the end ever since the S5 renewal was announced. I’m not going to change that.
But I’m struck (once again!) by the idea that Schwedak (and really, Chris Fedak) is speaking directly to the fans with things like this title. As a group we’ve chastised him a bit for putting us needlessly on edge about various things; if he was going for ‘playful’, he often missed the mark. He’s been much more effective this way, through the more subtle messages which have often been delivered by Chuck or by Sarah or even by various baddies.
I’ve had no trouble seeing them as “love notes” from the cast, crew and TPTB to the fans.
Oooohhh… Just found a link to the story. The comments are “interesting” (and I’m not the ‘Joe’ in the comments there).
Why everything I love is ending? 😦
The end is actually in sight 😦
ChuckThis! received something in e-mail this afternoon that I thought I’d pass on to you. It’s from Camila Franco, and it’s a bit of an advertisement, but it’s fun.
And as an FYI:
Spoiler TV is reporting that Chuck will have a two hour finale on Jan 27.
Joe – Thanks. Working a little backwards and a little forwards, I wonder if maybe we will get a XMAS ep b4 XMAS now?
5×12/13 on 1/27
5×11 – 1/20
5×10 – 1/13
5×9 – 1/6
5×8 – 12/23
5×7 – 12/16
5×6 – 12/9
5×5 – 12/2
skip 11/25 Black Friday
5×4 – 11/18
You skipped 12/30, so there’s still some wiggle room somewhere. I bet 5×8 airs after Christmas on 12/30, leaving one other skip before Christmas.
Think – sorry for not specing that day, I am guessing Friday 12/30 will be consumed by football, I don’t think any original tv will be shown that night. The odd thing about the announcement, is how little ‘wiggle’ room there actually is.
Jason, my guess is that given Chuck’s numbers they don’t think it can do much more than fill hours to get them through to the mid season shows, essentially using the superbowl to promote them.
Even though we all knew it was coming still stings a bit to have it confirmed. Still, it’s been an amazing ride and we shouldn’t forget to continue to support the cast and crew in the home stretch.
NBC already put out a press release that they are airing a movie on 12/2. The movie is sponsored by Walmart. So, I doubt that will be changed.
They either are going to double up other episodes or run Chuck on 12/30.
Jason–NBC won’t have any football on that night. Other networks might, but not NBC.
I can’t even…
Well given that info here’s your Chuck schedule for the remainder of the series:
504 – 11/18
505 – 12/9
506 – 12/16
507 – 12/23
508 – 12/30
509 – 1/6
510 – 1/13
511 – 1/20
512 & 513 on 1/27
Sadly, given I’ll be visiting family for the holidays, with all attendant obligations, I’ll probably miss 507 and 508 live. Thank god for the DVR.
Ernie – I was thinking the same thing as you said about running our eps out so the mid season shows can get going ASAP. I appreciate the early announcement of the final, takes the pressure off fans, I doubt it will help ratings, but at this point, all that one can say is …. sa la vie.
12/23 will be tough for me too. I wonder how much of a nuisance I can make of myself at my sister’s that night…
Considering there were fears of Chuck being pulled from the schedule altogether when we had the original 0.8, at this point I’m just happy we’ve got confirmation. Or not happy…I’m emotionally all over the place.
Ernie that makes sense except they already announced that 5.07 was pushed until after Christmas. i haven’t heard they moved it again. so they may be doubling up in jan.
Army, since they originally announced the finale as Feb 3rd I’m guessing the schedule is a dynamic thing and was just recently worked out and changed. I could be wrong, but if they are burning out episodes scheduling and promoting an already available Christmas episode makes some sense. Of course if Grimm is taking a break there could be doubled up episodes.
Army I think we’re guessing today’s announcement supersedes the previous one. They can’t skip too many Fridays or they’ll be doing a lot of doubling up in January!
I don’t take what Fedak said about the Xmas episode coming after Xmas as an “announcement”. He was just saying what he knew at the time. That has clearly changed.
Slowing down the roll-out of Chuck’s final episodes has changed to a desire to get it done as soon as possible.
I still have such mixed feelings about this. I’m excited that there won’t be any long breaks and the story will flow pretty quickly now until the end.
But there it is… the end.
I don’t like the sound of that at all. This will be such a huge change of lifestyle for all of us who frequent here. I know I will miss both the show and the community, I already do.
Faith, emotionally all over the place … yeah, me too … and the last two titles don’t help much.
Dave,, I’m with you … glad we’ll get all 13 without too many delays. I’m glad they got to plan their final season. I just wish that planned final season were years into the future. I’m not ready for it all to end … including the community here.
Apparently Josh Schwartz just tweeted that Chuck will run new episodes on 12/23 and 12/30. So I guess we get a brief break on 11/25 and 12/2; and then run every Friday until the two-part finale.
For those interested in NBC’s mid season announcement / strategy of which the Chuck run out was part of, here is a TVBTN summary:
http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2011/11/14/nbc-mid-season-schedule-harrys-law-to-sunday-grimm-stays-put-up-all-night-moves-later-whitney-to-wednesday-chuck-done-in-january-more/110647/
I could see having the Christmas episode run the 23rd, especially if it is promoted as a holiday special. It is probably too close to the holiday though for a lot of the more casual viewers who will be traveling, shopping, making preparatrions, etc. Still, as Schwartz said they’ll likely be the only non-repeat airing for both those weeks. Watch the numbers peak, and a ton of new people show up on the board. I can see it now, “Hey I just discovered this show, we have to save it!”. It would be “Chuck Luck” to become a hit during the burnoff just after WB tore down the sets.
And Ernie it would be fitting revenge….
Also according to one of my pals that works at Warner Brothers and can see a call sheet, they start filming episode 12 tomorrow. Considering Wendi Lynn took a photo of the script for episode 12 today, it’s real and it’s here. *cascading tears*
Promotional photos for Business Trip up here.
Thanks, Faith. It looks like Chuck’s shirt says “Salesperson of the Year 2011” and “I got lei’ed at the Hawaiian Riverside”. It Sarah in a Nerd Herder outfit?
Here’s a thought for 5×04. If Chuck is going undercover as Morgan does that mean Sarah will be going along as Mrs Grimes. LOL
Oh no. Everyone who couldn’t handle Morgan dancing with Sarah when Chuck told him to is going to freak out about Mrs. Grimes.
Or maybe Sarah will be undercover as Alex.
That would certainly calm fan fears.
Can’t you just see the uproar at the Buy More if the trolls got ahold of the tidbit that Morgan was at a big conference with Sarah as his guest???
See, everyone thinks Fedak doesn’t know how to deal with the press and encourage fan support with positive spoilers. Your idea, Dave, is proof he could always be worse.
Hmmm, should we go with Sagan (Sa-rah+Mor-gan) or perhaps the more appropriate Saron (Sar-ah and as Casey now refers to him the mor-on)
Saron seems fitting on several levels!
Heh, I’ll have you know that I objected to Morgan dancing with Sarah for aesthetic reasons. That, and the fact that the height differential was giving me vertigo.
Chuck is wearing his wedding ring in that shot where he’s being thrown into the pool. I don’t will if Sarah will be going as “Morgan’s” wife, but he isn’t hiding that he’s married.
Chuck – Episode 5.05 – Chuck vs. the Hack Off – Short Synopsis————Chuck turns to Verbanski (Carrie-Anne Moss) for help tracking a computer virus; Lester and Jeff’s relationship is complicated by a new Buy More employee (Danny Pudi).——Taken from: SpoilerTV http://www.spoilertv.com/2011/11/chuck-episode-505-chuck-vs-hack-off.html#ixzz1dld7HcYF
YES! Carrie Anne Moss returns! Thank you Bundy.
C’mon Faith it’s obvious they love her over there.
You’re right…and who wouldn’t? She is overwhelmingly the best guest star they’ve had in awhile ;). But it’s still nice to get confirmation.
agreed. Cabanski will live on 😉
I’m thinking this Buy More convention episode will be the most Chuck and Sarah / Hart to Hart themed story that we have had this season.
I hope I hope I hope. 🙂
I’m confused. I thought Morgan Grimes was going to the Buy More convention and this episode was going to be another episode about Mr. and Mrs. Grimes, with Morgan getting all of the screen time. 😉
If only… Then we could finally get some progress with Duck.
I can’t believe I walked right into that one!
I’m wondering what other Buy More stores have as management caliber, so far we have seen Burbank: Big Mike, Emmit and Harry Tang, not exactly representative of the public at large, Beverly Hill: Todd and his band of frat boys, Corporate who usually were infiltrated with CIA extraction agents (Longshore) or Ring Operatives. So who do we get this time.
Or was his name Barkley? he always seemed a Todd or a Chip or a Greg to me, sort of like the evil frat from Animal House, I can see them saying “thank you sir, may I have another”.
Obviously one of the worlds deadliest assassins. I think Longshore was a cop “investigating” the “robbery” at the Buy More.
That’s what I’ve been thinking all along … until I found out that Chuck is going as Morgan. Now I’m wondering how they’ll work this out.
Sarah can go as Charlene “Chuck” Bartowski, Nerd Herder extrordinaire, and Morgan’s (ahem) best friend. Or she could say she’s named Hannah. 😉
When I first heard about this episode, it sounded like it could be fun, but the scene they released yesterday seemed kind of flat to me.
I’m wondering if Chuck and Sarah in their undercover roles are going as a couple or as people who barely know each other.
All of these theories are interesting. If Sarah came up with the Hannah name, it could be really funny watching Chuck’s reaction. However, sometimes a cover is just too complicated. Maybe Cole had the right idea: they should just go in as spies.
I think there are now 3 short spoilers video’s out there, the original shown at the end of ‘Tips’ and two other new ones. The two new ones are both here:
http://zacharylevifan.com/wordpress/
I re-iterate, I think this is going to be a Chuck-Sarah ep that many of us shippers have been waiting for. I doubt there will be real many this season, so gear up and enjoy!
Thanks, jason. Maybe this is why Yvonne hates bunnies and felt the need to beat one on Conan.
I’m not a frequent visitor, so….
Jason:
When you say this is the episode shippers have been waiting for, what do you mean? What are you expecting and why do you think you are getting it in this episode.
The preview and the promos aren’t providing me with much to get excited about.
DKD – just a real simple thing, Chuck and Sarah on missions without Morgan or too much Casey. Think Honeymooners and even Role Models, or there were a handful of such eps in s4, but not near as many as I would have wanted. The first 3 eps this season mostly had the big 3 together, and how they dealt with Morgan was their primary focus, the missions hardly mattered except the need to get paid I suppose.
All fine and dandy, but my preferred story structure is the big 2 together (think Hart to Hart from the 80’s), and how they deal with the outside mission as the primary focus. From the previews, I hoping I finally get to see one such episode. The last two previews were mostly about Chuck and Sarah, hence the positive vibe for me. Just a vibe, although my prognostication has been somewhat accurate over the seasons here, other than those times I totally get it wrong of course.
Plus, the CIA wants Morgan dead, what could be better than that, if Decker could just get that one thing right?
Does that help DKD?
DKD i can’t answer for Jason but a group of fans wants to see chuck and sarah go on missions together as a couple. since the promo shows them doing that, i believe that’s what he means.
Thanks for the answers.
interesting promo, wish sarah still had the old nerd herd costume, still this one is pretty decent.
Yvonne is cast in a movie, sounds like a co-star role, google ‘I Frankenstein’ and read all about it, that did not take her long. Funny, I also read that NBC is going to redo The Munsters, someone suggested ABaldwin would make a great Herman (he has the grunts down for sure), although I think the big guy from everyone love Raymond, Brad Garrett would be my choice.
Just another reminder that Chuck is coming to an end 😦
“CHUCK”
“CHUCK VERSUS THE HACK OFF”
12/09/2011 (08:00PM – 09:00PM) (Friday) : AN UNDERCOVER MISSION AT A BIZARRE CULT RECONNECTS CHUCK WITH HIS HACKER PAST — CARRIE-ANNE MOSS, BEAU GARRETT AND DANNY PUDI GUEST STAR — DIRECTED BY ZACHARY LEVI — A mission to track down a computer super virus leads Chuck (Zachary Levi) to return to his roots as a hacker — and to call on his biggest competition, Gertrude Verbanksi (guest star Carrie-Anne Moss), for help. Elsewhere, a new Buy More employee (guest star Danny Pudi) complicates Jeff (Scott Krinsky) and Lester’s (Vik Sahay) friendship. Yvonne Strahovski, Adam Baldwin, and Joshua Gomez also star.
====================
I think it’s interesting Lester is back in the Buy More (Big Mike dropped the charges?) and nothing is mentioned about Casey’s arrest. My guesses are the super virus mission is blackmail from Decker before he clears Casey, or Chuck goes after the virus to wipe-out Decker’s computers and the evidence. Gertrude wants to help her new beau.
Interesting spec on Casey. The other thing is he recorded the conversation between Viper and Decker, so he has a little bit of leverage.
If you go to NBC.com/Chuck, the sentence about the next episode says, “With Casey under arrest, Chuck and Sarah make an uncomfortable bargain with Decker.”
So, it may very well be that Decker is forcing Chuck and Sarah to do this mission with Casey as a bargaining chip.
Two questions about this, before Bearded Bandit and Carmicheal Industries’ presentation had we ever heard about Chuck’s past as a hacker? Not that it is out of the realm of possibility that a Buy Moron would also be a hacker, but this strikes me as something new for the series.
Secondly isn’t this cult/commune as nudist one, I seem to recall Zack Levi talking about directing so much flesh.
We heard way back in Tom Sawyer (2.05) that Chuck had written a nasty virus at Stanford, so its not completely a new thing. He also wrote his own web search utility and hacked into a highly encrypted chip later in S2. This is the sort of thing that makes me happy about getting rid of the 2.0; no more Kung Fu crutch to escape most problems, they’re writing Chuck as smart.
And yeah Herder there was some nudist angle to the hacker cult.
Did a little morning cruise around, two things caught my eye:
http://zacharylevifan.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=58265&fullsize=1
Scotty B saying something like ‘Chuck is smart, fun and just a little off’, that is Mo Ryan-esque in summing up what I like about Chuck, other than simply enjoying Chuck and Sarah on screen together. I recall Linda H saying last season that she loves that the show does not take itself too seriously, I think that is when the show excels too.
http://chucktv.net/2011/11/21/schwartz-predicts-very-few-dry-eyes-for-chuck-finale/
This is a good teaser for the finale, no attempt to BS anyone, sort of makes me wonder if between now and then we are going to have a stretch of eps that aren’t ‘love letter’s’. But so far IMO we have been given 4 for 4 in terms of smart, fun and a little off ‘love letters’. I’d like all 13 to be that way, but I am happy with 4 and will gladly take any more ‘love letters’ the showrunners want to write me, be it 1 more or 9 more.
http://insidetv.ew.com/2011/11/23/how-i-met-your-mother-glee-chuck-gossip-spoilers/
gives some insight to the Christmas episode.
That’s all very exciting. Still not sure when I’ll even get to see the episode (there’s a reason most shows just do re-runs Christmas break!), but I know I’m really looking forward to it.
Sounds fantastic. It’s a real conflict of emotion for me. I can not wait to see it all unfold, but I do not want it to be over. arrgghhh
Yeah ditto that Thinkling.
Third that.
Apropos of nothing – but does anyone else think that the title of the finale (Chuck vs the Goodbye) rather backs up Fedak’s little tease that not everyone makes it out of the season alive?
Could be that someone has to “disappear” (to another part of the world, perhaps), as opposed to actually die. Maybe Casey, as a result of his killings in “Business Trip”, say.
I could easily see Casey getting killed or having to disappear.
Yes, Kev, but even more is #12 – Cascading Tears. Sounds to me like someone might not make it.
Wow! Hadn’t even seen that. Must be new news? But yeah – looks more and more ominous for someone. My first thought when Fedak’s tease came out was Big Mike – but it’s certainly looking to be someone more consequential. I’m honestly not sure how I’d feel if they killed off Casey or Morgan. Honest reaction at this stage is I think it would be a little too dark as a final arc, if indeed it happens. Hmmm. Still so many possibilities.
I don’t think a good heroic death for Casey would really be that dark. More like, a fulfillment of his destiny and gift to his friends. I mean, it would be a bummer, but I think it could be powerful in a good way.
Morgan would probably be more sad, and I hope they don’t go that way.
As i said several weeks ago, some one would die in 12. maybe thats why the final is called the goodbye, they have the funeral for the deceased.
I think that’s a completely reasonable spec army.
Faith posted the title here in this same post.
I had taken “cascading tears” to be Faith’s reaction to the end being near and not the titlle of the episode. I was wondering where the title had come from as I hadn’t seen it posted anywhere.
ok, Herder. In that case, i really misunderstood. Huge apologies. That makes things less dire. My idiocy.
Seems like the end arc is going to be serious, and the 8th ep too. One reason I am enjoying these first eps as much as I can, is I do not like the show as much when it tries to do drama, as they simply have nowhere to turn other than hurt Sarah somehow, or hurt Casey somehow, there simply aren’t too many other choices.
Cascading seems to imply a series of tears, I can’t imagine multiple deaths, so I wonder what that might mean?
Casey’s death seems reasonable to me too and I think de-facto exec producer Zac would sooner lose a kidney than have his little buddy die, but Morgan’s death would be enormously satisfying to me, and far, far more dramatic than Casey’s. But, my money is on Mary’s death, which would be much less difficult to sell along with a happy ending, and could be nearly as impactful as any??????
Jason, my bad on the cascading. I misunderstood Faith’s post. So ix-nay on the Cascading Tears as a title.
I do think there will be some tears, though, before it’s all over.
I wonder if episode 512 is even going to have a separate title from 513 now that it’s known they are airing as a 2-hour block.
DKD…i would assume so. i think they go by the script titles and it was written before the change, but then again maybe not, lol.
For those who want to pay attention to what they are doing for the final episode…
We know they filmed at the studio Monday, November 28th. But a facility called Skydive Pismo Beach tweeted this yesterday, “Cant wait 4 tomorrow the TV show Chuck is Filming @ our DZ!! #Chuck #skydiving #pismobeach”
Their websit is: http://www.skydivepismobeach.com
AB also tweeted a pic of him in the buy more wearing a suit.
Which would seem to indicate Casey is still alive and well for the finale….
They dressed him in a suit for his coffin. The funeral is at the Buy More. 😉
Casey would be buried in his uniform, as we saw in Couch Lock
Depends on the nature of his discharge.
My father was buried in his uniform despite being retired from the military. I don’t think the military can prevent someone from being buried in a uniform if that was their wish.
I meant after the showdowns in Castle and at the hospital, Decker may have made sure Casey was dishonorably discharged. The show normally doesn’t care about accuracy (e.g. Casey’s promotion from Major to full Colonel, without a Lt. Colonel promotion), but a dishonorable discharge or bad conduct discharge would require a court martial. An other than honorable dischange also requires a hearing. A general discharge is more likely. If it was a OTHD, BCD, or DD, Casey would probably not want to wear the uniform.
There are federal laws about wearing military uniforms and some of them depend on discharges with honorable conditions. I don’t know if they apply to burials.
Even if it is illegal, I can’t imagine the military cops bursting into a funeral and saying “get that uniform off that corpse.” and charging the family with a crime.
dkd, you’re right, which is why I doubt the laws apply to burials.
Bringing this back to Chuck… I wouldn’t put it past Decker, who seemed to want Sarah to die even after Chuck no longer had the Intersect and found the cure. Sarah had not done anything wrong, so if he was smart, he could have let Chuck give Sarah the cure and then arrested him for breaking out Hartley. Chuck probably would have gone along with it. Instead Decker forced the Russian special forces showdown. One would think he learned his lesson, but no, he’s still going after Casey on difficult to prosecute charges. Even if Casey didn’t make a recording, all of the people he shot were armed and two were pointing guns at him. Maybe Casey didn’t have a valid conceal and carry permit. Of course putting Casey is holding and the threat of prosecution would probably be enough for Carmichael Industries to be blackmailed into working for Decker.
If you recall one aspect of season 3’s big spy plot (which revolved around Shaw; Chuckwin’s Law disclaimer) was how at first the Ring was trying to kill Shaw, but eventually switched tactics to try and turn him when killing didn’t work.
I think Decker will be revealed to be doing something not so different. My guess is that at first the idea was to isolate and manipulate Chuck, hence getting Sarah and Casey out of the way, but that was continually foiled by Team B. Decker then realized he’d overplayed his hand by attempting to let Sarah die (note that he left Sarah off the approved kill list last time) so now he’s switched tactics to blackmail and manipulation by using those around Chuck. He probably intended to use Sarah and Chuck’s family, but when Casey presented him with an opportunity he grabbed it.
Yeah Jeff I don’t think any murder charge could possibly stick, but I don’t think the CIA cares. They could likely use a blanket “terrorism” charge and hold Casey indefinitely. Although they seem to have involved the local police which could be a mistake if getting someone to disappear was their agenda. This is more along the lines of harrassment.
As you said, I think its just about forcing cooperation. For a limited time, they can get the team to do their bidding in exchange for making all charges go away. But if the CIA pushes too hard they would likely loose in any resulting push back.
Of course the unkown element in all of this is how much the CIA is going to make up, clean up, or plant. Simply getting to the crime scene first and removing all the baddie’s weapons would suddenly make things much worse for Casey.
Thanks Ernie for reminding me that the show’s plots are not always as poorly thought out as everyone insists. Sometimes, they make sense. Sometimes the bad guys actually try different things when the first ideas don’t work. Occasionally there is a logic to their evil schemes, even if it is not shown on screen. I used to think that all of the time. I guess I’ve been reading too much on boards (excluding this one, of course).
in terms of spy plots (big bads) this one failed the common sense test for me last season in the finale. we were led to believe that decker was this big bad who would kill anybody. casey said that i believe in a way. decker had chuck alone with his men twice and did nothing but suppress the intersect. now he’s going to spend over year trying to get him to fail when that was his goal last season as well. this story line is just s bad as the mama b story. i’m sure they will try to explain it away and many people will accept it and be happy with it (see mama b story) but for me it held no water last season and from what i read holds less this season.
Army, I can’t imagine why you’d be worried about the plot this season, after all you gave up on the show last season ’cause it sucked so bad, right? 😉
We don’t know yet why Chuck is special (not for Sarah, we already know that, but for the CIA). That could be a reason to keep Chuck alive.
Ernie, as i said before it didn’t suck, just not for me. i have always given the show credit for handling the relationships very well and saying it was the strength of the show. i did come back to see the first episode hoping it would get me back, alas it didn’t. that doesn’t mean i can’t see a plot that makes no sense does it? if the plot makes sense to you and you like them it’s great. it’s what personal choice is all about, right?
Army, I’m just yanking your chain a bit (in good fun). For a guy who “gave up on” the show you are still one of our top commenters, and still seem pretty invested in and interested in current events in both the show and the fandom.
Just sayin’…
Ernie even though i don’t watch, its still a fun place to come! i just don’t comment on the episodes. i like trying to figure out what is coming up in the future based on what has happened and what the previews show.
i’m sure everyone has experienced this at one time or another, you start watching a movie and after while you realize it’s not all that good but you keep watching because you just have to find out how it ends? well that’s me and chuck!
with no real investment on my part other than reading blogs i can get a better feel of the separate groups that are still vested in the show. it’s actually pretty diverse. i find it fun to see how one group views an episode vs the other. you’d be surprised at the number of unwritten rules you can find on certain blogs. when i had the attachment to the show i failed to see these and other things. it’s actually really interesting on so many levels.
Yeah Amron, at this point we don’t know why; but the CIA clearly wants Chuck alive but a failure. Their attitude on Sarah, also for reasons unkown, seems to have changed from killing her to keeping her alive with Chuck. Maybe they want them desperate and broken to form a new spy team under close CIA control? Maybe its all about the Intersect again, but then why did they remove the 2.0 back in Cliffhanger? At this point we just don’t know what the CIA (or at least Decker’s faction of the CIA) is up to.
As always, I would say watching Chuck and Sarah deal with it, and ultimately defeat whatever the nefarious scheme may be, is far more interesting to me than whatever the CIA is up to (as US Grant once said; “You all keep talking about what the other guy is up to, I’m more interested in what we’re up to” [atcDave’s paraphrase]).
Well Army it’s awfully nice of you to keep coming by to remind us that the show isn’t very good and doesn’t make sense any more (in your opinion), or to fill us in on how dissatisfied other parts of the fandom are.
Dave, i hear ya. think about this, chuck and sarah will have to make deal to get casey out of jail. this will give decker chance to get to sarah to force her to influence chuck to do what he wants. the intersect will make another appearance in the next 4 episodes. let me know how close i come, will ya?
Dave, I think you have to look at it as a fluid situation. Chuck thought he needed the intersect to save Sarah, perhaps so did Decker. He seems to have wanted her dead at the time, or at least not cared if she lived. That plan foiled, and Chuck having information on Agent X changed the game, and the first thing Decker did was goad Chuck into remaining a spy and send him a new intersect with a trojan horse. Based on Morgan’s reaction we can speculate that the goal of that was again to isolate Chuck from his team and make him easier for them to manipulate. That missed it’s mark, so the next thing Decker does is put their spy business on the ropes by freezing their accounts and then put a hit on Morgan, leading to a confrontation with Viper that puts everyone (other than Chuck and Sarah) on a hit list. When the Viper is taken down Decker responds by getting Casey arrested for murder.
At this point I’m looking at it like a chess game, or a fight with a punch and counter-punch depending on what the opponent does, not as a seamless uninterupted plan that runs smoothly along a known and pre-determined trajectory. The point is to put Chuck in a place where he can be used for their ends. How they do that depends on how Chuck responds to their attempts to push him in the direction they wish.
” the CIA clearly wants Chuck alive but a failure. Their attitude on Sarah, also for reasons unkown, seems to have changed from killing her to keeping her alive with Chuck. Maybe they want them desperate and broken to form a new spy team under close CIA control? Maybe its all about the Intersect again, but then why did they remove the 2.0 back in Cliffhanger? ”
Remember that that suppressed his original intersect, but then left the glasses with the Trojan Horse that seemed designed to change his personality, get rid of his trivial memories and sever his relationships with friends and family. Only Morgan got that intersect instead.
Perhaps, what the writers are shooting for is a continuation of what was said about Chuck in “A Team”. Factions in the CIA have never been satisfied that he’s not the killer assassin they hoped the Intersect might be.
But, I do tend to try not to put logic into these plots. If you think to hard about them, they don’t make any sense and you get frustrated.
I don’t think Fedak had a detailed plan of where he was headed for Season 5 when he wrote Cliffhanger. I think they were forced to figure it out when they got the surprise renewal.
When it’s all done, they will reveal what this “master plan” for Chuck is, but I won’t promise that it will stand up to careful analysis.
I think that Decker is constrained by who ever is giving him instructions, Decker on his own would be perfectly happy to kill Chuck and let all the others die, but it is further up the chain that wants Chuck neutralized but alive (or at least saved to be destroyed later). Chuck and Sarah are considedered important and can’t be killed (yet) but all the others are fair game and so Decker sets the Viper against them until Casey intervenes. Casey’s comment in Cliffhanger about the CIA sending in someone to take them all out seems to be coming true, but for reasons that we don’t know yet, someone has other plans for Chuck and Sarah.
We finally have a title and a (short) synopsis for 5.07, the Christmas episode. It’s in the main body of this post.
Interesting that the next three episodes all deal with computer viruses (presumably not the Demova virus) which should play into Chuck’s non-intersect strengths.
I noticed that Herder, I think that’s exactly the point. Cool!
My guess is this shot comes from one of the last scenes in the show, let’s hope not the very last one & does define two characters who are not dead. But a warning, this is fairly spoilerish, albeit a highly predictable B plot series ending scene, view at your own discretion!
Yikes, how did that happen, was just trying to post the link, oops.
So Chuck and Morgan is the last scene ever?
Shows are commonly filmed out of order, so we really don’t know anything. They might just want to tear down that set sooner.
No, this is the last scene with Chuck and Morgan alone, there can be a huge number of scenes such as Chuck and Sarah saying good-bye to Morgan or Chuck saying good-bye to Morgan and Alex and the like. Think of the Chuck and Morgan good-bye at the pastry shop in Honeymooners, that took place shortly after the half-way point of the episode.
good point, I guess I’m fretting for nothing.
The more I see pictures posted from the sets for the final episode, it seems that everyone from the original cast is accounted for, at least in terms of having scenes in the finale.
I wonder if the death Fedak teased was just a fake-out or it’s a faked death.
Another possibility is that the person is alive at the beginning of the episode is dead by the ending.
Normally, I love spoilers. I figure I’m going to watch the episode multiple times anyway. But the recent twitter and twitpc messages are rather depressing. I don’t even have a twitter account, but I keep running across them.
i know I’ve seen a few twitter pics; and everything seems to be of the “last scene of…” variety. Very depressing.
I guess they’ve already filmed the final scene, and Yvonne tweeted something about everyone spending the day crying. It’s good that they all got along so well; but just like for any of us, it does make the end and the goodbyes that much harder.
I know our goodbyes will be hard enough. It will be interesting to see how we all hold up over the next few weeks. (yeah, I’m a sentimental sort…)
Denial works well. Just kidding.
It’s much better this way, though, than cancellation last year. But I still can’t believe that they are finishing up the series. Sad. And sad for the blog. It’s been a fun community.
Yeah it is better this way; although sudden cancellation is maybe more like yanking the bandage off. What we get now is a more prolonged painful process (at least there’s no long hiatus before the end!)
I know it will be very sad as we see daily hits start winding down here for the last time.
With Linda Hamilton being in the finale, what are the odds she survives it? I’m figuring the possible character death odds being…
Casey: 25%
Morgan: 15%
Mary: 10%
Jeff: 5%
Other: 10%
Nobody significant: 35%
I still can’t see him with thinking Tom Paris…
So cool, looks like a Tom Paris cameo in our finale!
I hope that is true, he was one of the best B characters on Star Trek, and that is saying something, he made alot out of a pretty standard, basic role (no hologram, or computer brain, or alien blood, etc)
Skydiving – interesting. I used to think the ‘boys’ ignore Yvonne’s wishes, but either she interviews things she know is coming, or many of her wishes come true on Chuck, as I seem to recall her asking for both rock climbing and sky diving at comic con – last season she asked for a fashion runway ep and I am pretty sure she wanted to have Sarah marry Chuck much more than her ‘boys’ did. Good for her!
I believe she made the fashion week request way back in S1 and was a little surprised when they finally got around to it. I wouldn’t be surprised if her influence has increased as TPTB have maybe figured out how important she is to the audience.
She certainly seems more in touch with the fans than anyone else.
Heh! The way these two have been bantering with each other on twitter for the last two weeks it’s a relief to see the smiles.
Soooooo this is interesting! Never thought we’d see this place again:
http://www.whosay.com/EvaLongoria/photos/100241
First of all, very strange site to be having Chuck news. But yeah, I never expected to see that again either. Maybe it is a new business Charmichael Industries is putting into the old Orange Orange spot? Or maybe we’re supposed to think Weinerlicious was always there? (but I was pretty sure Orange Orange actually took that same spot). Interesting.
Tumblr on a Sunday! You never know what you’re gonna find!
Maybe after the CIA vacated after nixing Operation Bartowski, they took the Orange Orange with them and someone reopened the Wienerlicious? Because that was a legit business to start with and Sarah was only using it as a cover, right?
I thought that one possibility is it’s a flashback. But, then, Dave Castillo (often Zac’s stunt double) posted a picture of Yvonne’s stunt double and she was wearing a Wienerlicious dress and had her hair up in pigtails. I can’t find the photo anymore, though.
Whatever is going on at the Weinerlicious, it involves stunts.
how about the completely weird and crazy and i don’t really think it’s gonna happen? they do a newhart or dallas?
Newhart would be tricky because there is no original Chuck to fall back on. Dallas though… Any excuse from the S3 deniers to erase the dark time. When you get your nefarious ways, please preserve Honeymooners.
Jeff that’s the beauty of the newhart, just have chuck wake up and take his wife sarah home to their kids. he’s been telling his dreams to his wife and friends. every one wins! ya got a decent story, and c/s have been married for years.
Jeff, or better yet, chuck’s an author writing a book and sarah was proof reading it at work, lol.
I’m just worried that by following the Newhart ending, Chuck would wake up with a different wife, like what happened in the Newhart show. Just think if that wife was Kayla Hart. That would be a real Chuckapocolypse.
At this point I doubt they worry about any S3 stuff. The dream ending Army suggested could be cute and inoffensive, but also sort of pointless. The dream ending worked for Newhart because it was a pure comedy that was never really about characters or plot anyway; it was just one gag after another. The dream season of Dallas is commonly considered one of the most poorly conceived story twists in television history. My bet is no dream, and Chuck and Sarah end in the white house with a red door.
Dave, ya think? of course it’s the white house and red door! you do understand my post about the dream or book and this one are just done in fun right?
a real guess would be they ride off into the sunset to live a long normal life, but hey we got normal covered already!
Oh yeah. It’s no dream. With that red door we’ll finally have the answer to the question Sarah left us with at Ellie’s wedding reception when her sentence was interrupted. “Chuck, I don’t want to save the world. I want…”
She wants a normal life too.
Sorry army, I wasn’t quite sure how serious all this was, especially since your dream suggestion would be plausible, even appealing in its own way!
Dave, yep all in good fun. i never gave much thought to it being plausible but if for some crazy reason it happens to come out that way, i’ll be the first one to pass out from shock!
Wouldn’t surprise me if it isn’t some sort of flashback during Tim DeKay’s episode.
Except JC, it’s apparently what they were working on late last week. Which would have to mean 5.13. It still might be a flashback, maybe even a second look at the Sarah/Casey fight or something.
@Jeff:
Nefarious? Season 3 Deniers?
I like it.
I’ve always wanted to be nefarious, and I’ve been trying to ignore S3 since the credits started rolling on Pink Slip. (that bathing suit….)
Maybe this is all part of Graham’s evil plan, after all he was the one who put her into the Weinerlicious in the first place. He seems the type not to let a little thing like being dead prevent him from continuing his evil plans. Maybe the Weinerlicious is franchise wide cover for evil doers (Sarah excepted), imagine Tommy, Vincent and Shaw all quietly runninng Weinerlicious’ at various locations around the world.
ROTFL
LOL And now, all I want for Christmas is a High Quality photo of Shaw wearing Sarah’s Wienerlicious uniform.
Asgghhh. My eyes! I have to unsee that. How can I unsee that?
I think what you’re looking for is an giant bottle of brain bleach. Thinkling.
Apply to affected areas and scrub diligently. Repeat as needed. 🙂
tried that.
Not Working.
Second Remedy, PLEASE!!!!
If brain bleach fails, try reading some Chuck/Sarah fic.
There’s just something soooo wrong about Sh** turning around asking, “How would you like your weiner?”
**shudder**
La La La Not Helping La La La
Hey Guys.
A short synopsis of Vs. the Baby can be found here:
http://www.spoilertv.com/2011/12/chuck-episode-508-chuck-versus-baby.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=tumblr
I cannot wait for this episode to air. I still think this will be Sarah’s Tic Tac (Same writers too.) and Tic Tac was one of the better episodes of the misery arc.
Sounds much less miserable than earlier guesses as to what might happen.
maybe a new client is tied in with the CIA/Riker and Sarah has to confront him when she believes he could well be a threat to her family/mum.
I always look forward to a good Sarah episode, I expect this one to be a highlight.
Added latest Ausiello spoiler re: Christmas episode up top. http://t.co/yygVZQ9E
Well if there is mistletoe involved it could get dangerous…
My Guess: Chuck is the recipient of the unfriendly kiss. Sarah gets a smooch from Stan Lee dressed as Santa Claus.
My guess is Sarah gets an unwelcome kiss from Ryker (not a friend). Chuck gets a big, friendly kiss from Sarah’s mom, his mother-in-law, the walking hug.
I think Santa Suit is 5×07, with Stan Lee, on December 23. 5×08 is Chuck vs the Baby with Ryker and Sarah’s mom on December 30.
Oh, yeah, brain cramp! I got my spoilers mixed up.
Christmas and unwelcome kisses seems to involve Jeff (the old version) maybe mistletoe is the kryptonite that turns him back into Lester’s Jeff.
On the other hand, I keep thinking about those pre-season spoilers where there were some throw away comments on possible returns from Jill and/or Shaw.
So you never know. 😉
There was a rumor a couple weeks back of Brandon Routh being on set. But of course being there and working are two different issues entirely. I would be surprised if any exes made returns at this point.
I would not be surprised if Shaw makes another appearance as Chuck’s nemesis, but I would expect it more for the final four episodes. Him appearing in the Xmas episode would be a surprise to me.
A not friendly kiss could be along the lines of “you broke my heart Fredo” from the Godfather. Some one from the CIA gives them the “kiss of death” as a prelude to the comming war between Carmicheal Industries and what ever faction of the CIA that is against them.
There’s also the Casey kiss from Chuck vs the Ex, Honestly, my first thoughts for the uncwelcome kiss was Jeff/Sarah or Jeff/Chuck, but then I remembered Jeff is sane now, Unless Lester gets to Jeff this time.
[QUOTE]
Got any scoop on the holiday episode of Chuck? — Henry
NATALIE: ‘Tis the season for mistletoe, and boy, will there be a lot of smooching going on! Not only will Chuck kiss another woman, but Sarah will kiss another man — But that won’t be the biggest secret that she’s hiding from her hubby. There’s another that will change the dynamic of their relationship forever.
[/QUOTE]
http://www.tvguide.com/News/Mega-Buzz-Housewives-Bones-Chuck-1040542.aspx
Um… what? Change the dynamic of their relationship forever??? Could it possibly be?
Must. Resist. Speculating. AAHHHHHGGGG!!!
I am not speculating. I’m just pointing out the episode after this one is titled “Chuck Versus the Baby.” 😉
@LostJEff – Sarah’s secret love child??? O_O
@LostJeff – sorry, meant to continue – Sarah’s secret love child with SX@W from the alt-universe of CF where they were perfect for each other. Damn! Fringe-y plot. 😉 🙂
Sarah expecting would certainly fit the bill. Its sooner than I would have thought, but it might make for a very awesome Christmas episode.
Some observations:
Glad to have some more details on the ‘smooching’. Ausiello was more cryptic.
Any idea if there are any female guest stars in 5×07? If not, I can imagine Chuck giving a brotherly kiss to Ellie or he gets mistakenly kissed by a female BM employee or kisses Alex (again mistakenly)
As for Sarah, hmmm. Stan Lee is the guest star in this episode. 😉 But the fact that she is hiding it from Chuck makes me wonder who she kisses? Awesome? Morgan? Jeff? Random Evil Guy? #IBlameEggNog 😀
Biggest secret that will change C/S dynamic? Maybe Sarah gets a phone call from her mother or her handler in this episode and she keeps it a secret from Chuck. I know her mom and ex-handler will appear in 5×08, but what’s to say about a phone call. Mama B called at the end of 4×05 and appeared in 4×06. Colonel Keller called Casey in 3×09 and appeared in 3×10.
I remember Wendy mentioning a “special guest” when they were filming this episode. But, she didn’t reveal who. Maybe someone shows up who is supposed to be a surprise for the audience, similar to how they kept Brandon Routh’s return a secret in Season 3.
Hum! If they’re going to have a “secret” guest star, I know who I’m rooting for to see one last time.
No, not Scooter. 😉 Scott B, back as Stephen. That would make my day/week/year. Not counting on it, though.
I could easily see a special guest relating to Sarah’s secret. Possibly a return of Jack, or maybe just her mom showing up at the tail end of the episode. Except those don’t quite fit the bill of changing their relationship.
I’m still leaning towards pregnancy, and the following episode (Baby) has them dealing with the new situation with mom and Ryker complicating things.
I don’t think Papa B would return from the dead, but a flashback or “Head Papa B” sequence wouldn’t be out of the question.
PapaB flashback for the Christmas episode would be awesome … and very believable.
“Sarah’s secret that she’s hiding from her hubby that will change the dynamic of their relationship forever.”
Spec: Sarah really really wants to start a family, like now. But with Chuck so focused to Carmichael Industries, she’s reluctant to even bring it up.
Well, a change in their relationship doesn’t have necessarily to be a bad thing: it might as well be an improvement, right? RIGHT??? *insert panic mode here*
Henry a change could absolutely be a good thing. I’m really thinking she’s pregnant or has decided she wants to be.
A pregnancy as soon as 509 would be a shock to me. There are some instances in subsequent episodes where Yvonne’s got a stunt double. I just don’t see them having Sarah do fights and other action sequences if she is pregnant.
I could really believe that CC. We already see the role reversal, or a meeting in the middle, and that would fit … Sarah thinking family and Chuck thinking spy biz and Decker.
I honestly think pregnancy and family will come up at Christmas. A cliffy with the pregnancy test or a biological clock discussion. A real pregnancy would be a surprise, but a false alarm wouldn’t surprise me at all.
two promos from nbc.com. i don’t know if they are on youtube or not so they may not work for out of us readers.
http://www.nbc.com/chuck/video/prisoner-john-casey/1372177
http://www.nbc.com/chuck/video/intervention-fail/1372176
I like the way the two spots tie in together; very funny! Is it Friday yet?
Hi, is there a YouTube version of these?
Edit by Faith: fixed.
It looks like wordpress decided to embed only one. The link in the above post is for the second sneak peek.
I don’t know if this is the proper place for this, but Chuck Season 5 is available for pre-order from Amazon, no release date as of yet.
prices: BluRay – $35.00, DVD – $28.00
One of the (the only?) advantages of an early finale of the last season.
Yeah exactly. It will probably be out in February. Which like this whole season will be both a good and a bad thing…
😀 … 🙂 … 😦
Ha Think…or Shaw’s 😐 😐 😐
Is it just me or have they not posted a long synopsis for Chuck vs the Santa Suit?
And who might the mystery “special guest” be?
Just wondering….
I have been regularly checking NBCU’s PR website for it, but they seem to be back to their old schedule of waiting until about two weeks prior to put it out.
Well, we’ll know if it’s that or something more sinister today – insert MmwaHaHaa here – since they released the short for 5.08 this week, that would put the long release due today. With the release of Chuck’s kissing partner pics, that leaves the baddie kissing Sarah.
Hmmmm
I don’t know if this is accurate, but some newspaper I found in a “Chuck NBC” google news search this morning mentioned that Brandon Routh was in tonight’s episode “Hack Off”.
http://www.thecalifornian.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2011112090307
I wonder if the writer is just confused or whether this is a big spoiler.
Hmmm ….
We’ve already gotten a pretty big guest list for this ep so I’m willing to bet it’s a confused error and he belongs in 5.07. Why do I think this?
Both Sarah & Chuck kiss someone else & one of them is a baddie – we now know that Chuck kisses General B so that leaves Sarah with the baddie.
The Examiner article today (http://www.examiner.com/tv-insider-in-los-angeles/photo-preview-chuck-suits-up-as-santa-this-christmas) says that two people wear a suit.
Could it be Sarah kisses someone she thinks is Chuck and that someone is …
DuhnDunDuuuun!
Oh yeah, and Fedak did say that Chuck’s past would come back to haunt him, didn’t he…..
We did hear the rumor a while ago Routh had been on set. I do wish they would just leave it alone; but that said, I’m not terribly worried with how this might play out. Maybe it’s just a nightmare, or maybe Sarah gets to beat the stuffing out of him.
Couple of bits of little clues. I read where the tour guide rumor about ‘someone’, many of whom ‘think’ she / he meant Routh was for episode 5×11. The words I read were a past guest that many people disliked. IMDB has 5×11’s title posted as ‘vs the Final Nemesis’ albeit often wrong, just saying it fits. Also, 5×10 is vs family drama, for all that is worth? 12/13 are called part 1 / part 2.
Anyhow, my guess is Routh is not in 5×5, but likely could be in 5×11. Heck, much as I dislike him, I might try to bring closure to that story if I were Fedak, but I would be shocked if he is given a feature role as I think even his defenders were not wowed by his ‘performance’, more appalled by the mean spirited reception he got in the fandom.
Finally, the santa suit, I’m guessing the other kiss will be to a second man in a santa suit, who Sarah thinks is Chuck while kissing him. I’m thinking the kiss will be related to the drama Sarah will go thru in the 8th episode, Sarah keeping the kiss and the dramatic story secret from Chuck for reasons that will be revealed in the 8th ep. If Routh were involved in all that, he would not be a small part of the 7th and or 8th episode, with Bo Derek and Sarah’s old handler already cast, it seems unlikely?
When I first saw that article, my assumption is that it was confused. But, I thought I’d share anyway.
The official title of 511 is Chuck vs. The Bullet Train, not what is in IMDB. Keep in mind that they already revealed that there would be a final “big bad” and who was cast. Ben Browder of Farscape and Stargate is also in 511.
I could see, though, an appearance by Routh before the end of the season. Decker could let him out of jail to battle it out with his nemesis Chuck. I just would be surprised if it were tonight. The episode that still lacks a released title is 510.
I thought that they released something saying that the actor who had played Robert the Bruce in Braveheart would be in a couple of episodes at the end as the leader of an evil spy company (Star Trek alternate universe of Chuck, I expect him to wear a moustache).
Yep, Herder, that’s who I was thinking of. They said he would be in a multiple episode arc.
My guess is he will be revealed to be the person behind it all.
TBH Jason, bringing back Routh to close that book now would be just as pathetic as that whole season. Hell it would be even worse. You can not ignore every little bit of significance of that whole story line for all that time, at a time when it should have mattered, and then now think, let’s bring him back and say well that’s to close the book, and it’s good story telling. The whole Shaw storyline was pathetic, in the sense it didn’t achieve anything, because everything was ignored after the two times they took him out. It was therefore contrived angst, and therefore a useless story. Bringing him back would just be another contrived action, unneeded, and please let that 5×4 remain in the past. They wanted to deal with an aftermath of Shaw? They should have done it years ago.
I’m not a fan of the whole idea of Sarah keeping a huge secret from Chuck and it leading to angst either. Every time they resort back to that, even now at a time where she seems open. So much for character growth, or inspired writing.
So …. now we know.
Heeee’s Baaa-aaack!
One time I wish I wan’t right….
http://www.aoltv.com/2011/12/08/chuck-set-visit-yvonne-strahovski-carrie-anne-moss-interview/
Great interview … thanks.
Hack-Off promo is here:
http://chucksarahmedia.com/2011/12/chuck-versus-the-hack-off-promo/
It’s funny I just saw the movie Swordfish yesterday because Fedak said it has a connection to this episode and I see the homage in the beginning of that promo.
In Swordfish, Hugh Jackman’s character is hacking while drinking wine and wearing headphones. I see Chuck drinking wine and wearing headphones while hacking.
Of course, the last clip in the promo has no relation to Swordfish. Looks like fun.
Wine? Hacking? Huh? [shakes head in a daze] Not what I remember! 😉
I’m with you. The only thing I can really remember is that last shot.
LOL. Like I said, I just saw the movie yesterday because Fedak mentioned it.
I do admit that Zac IS mezmerizing with his shirt off. I don’t blame you guys for getting distracted. 🙂
So I actually don’t have an official source for this, but I thought I would share, because 1. It’s a spoiler, and 2, it is hilarious if you like weird, wild kissing:
http://s3.amazonaws.com/data.tumblr.com/tumblr_lvwqlgR5I41qb26tqo1_1280.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAJ6IHWSU3BX3X7X3Q&Expires=1323472584&Signature=U94FihFktfxFmCKc6nvCZJ%2FMrPw%3D
I’m blind! I’m blind!
Well, one of our mystery kisses appears to be answered. Nobody guessed it, but Ernie will be happy.
Now that’s one of the mystery kisses explained – Chuck kissing a woman. Now, about the other one – Sarah kissing a man? I am guessing the Chuck/GBecks kiss is in the friendly category, so the “Sarah kissing a man” must be the unfriendly one- does anyone know whether Plywood will be in 5×07 too? I can see that pervert planting one on Sarah, just for kicks. Thoughts?
@Spoiler Junkie. That preview was for 5×06 and 5×07. All of the Christmas scenes, plus the Shaw ones, were from 5×07.
@Lost Jeff – Thanks. I hadn’t seen the promo. Went and saw it. So, now I am pretty sure the unfriendly kiss will be between Sarah and Plywood. Will be interesting to see Sarah’s reaction when Plywood tries to get kissy-face with her? Nothing less than a kick (or two) to Plywood’s nuts will satisfy me (for that moment, that is). Afterwards Plywood can become the second Mauser.
Wonder what topics( old scars) TPTB will drudge up in 5×07? My guess – Plywood has come back to get the earrings? 😉 🙂
I also meant to say – Whatever happens in 5×07, I have a feeling that it would be prudent to stock up on the famous brain bleach offered at this blog. 🙂
I think you’re on to something, Junkie. The board owners should see if they can get ad sponsorship from Clorox or Tide.
He’s a source and a couple more pictures:
http://tvdea.com/2011/12/chuck-vs-the-santa-suit-preview-gallery/
He looks ridiculous in that Santa Suit!! He is far too skinny and that thing is hanging off of him! Somebody either feed that boy a sandwich or stuff a pillow under the jacket!! lol
Cue the in-show ad for $5 footlongs.
MuHaHa…
Wait a second. Ernie is really Sh@w! The 2×4 is free! Get him!
(Sorry, Ernie. I know this is your blog. But you’re the one trying to blind people. You could have at least put a screencap of the Chuck and Sarah cult pictures in between.)
Nothing can spoil my mood now. I need to make a Duck fanvid!! Should the song be “Let’s get it on” or “Sexual healing” ? Finally after 5 seasons some payoff. All you Charah shippers are wimps, us Duck shippers know true dedication and will finally be rewarded. 😉
“Let’s get it on” is from 1973, and Beckman’s heyday was in the 80’s. Even “Sexual Healing” from 1982, might be a little early. She needs an 80’s power ballad.
I shouldn’t be encouraging you, but I kind of want to see the YouTube like/dislike ratio. You’re a stat guy, so I figure you understand.
DUCK!!
LMAO. Every Diane has its day, I suppose ;).
Ohhhhh that hurts! In a very funny way. It’s just so wrong. I hate Ernie…
😀
When do we start thinking that TPTB reads this blog (or the boards)? Only the devious mind of our very own could have hatched this idea. 😉 Just kidding.
I think there was a pay-off! Or Ernie is secretly Fedak’s brother or something. This stinks worse than Chicago politics!
Ha! I had the same thought, Faith. Well, forewarned is forearmed I guess. I just want to know what they see that provokes Beckman to kiss Chuck. Maybe Roan is kissing Sarah. 😉
So wait now. Does this make GBecks Mrs Claus?
What’s really funny, is that I can just hear Casey’s “grunt #9”.
Most I’ve laughed in days!
lol same, brilliant.
Did every regular poster here have the same reaction as I did when I first saw this, i.e. Ernie is going to love this?
With the possible exception of a good musical montage there is nothing I love more than being able to post about Duck. 😉
The sad part is that 507 is the episode I’m almost sure to miss, so I won’t be able to do an in-depth analysis of how Duck will play out for the rest of the season till after the new year.
Yes. We know him well I guess!
“CHUCK”
“CHUCK VERSUS THE BABY”
12/30/2011 (08:00PM – 09:00PM) (Friday) : SARAH’S PAST COMES BACK TO HAUNT HER AND THREATENS THOSE CLOSEST TO HER — CHERYL LADD AND TIM DEKAY GUEST STAR — Sarah (Yvonne Strahovski) is forced to confront a secret from her past and feels she must do so alone, while Chuck (Zachary Levi) urges her to let him help. When Sarah encounters her original handler, Kieran Ryker (guest star Tim Dekay, “White Collar”), she fears that he will harm those closest to her, including her mom (guest star Cheryl Ladd, “Las Vegas”). Adam Baldwin, Joshua Gomez, Sarah Lancaster and Ryan McPartlin also star.
Sigh.
3.08, 4.08 and now likely 5.08.
For me this episode will make or break the entire series. If they hand wave it like they’ve been apt to do (and you know they will) …….
The return of Shaw. Going to be EPIC 😀
Two theories…
1) The lighting was weird. It could be a dream.
2) With the way the preview had an X through Decker, Rebecca Romijn will be getting the 2nd X next week and Shaw will be getting the 3rd X the following week.
I don’t care, I just enjoy having him back. He sucked as a good guy, but his role as villain was thoroughly enjoyable so it’ll be good to see him. Plus y’know, after the eventual capture, it’ll be hilarious to see some gloating from Chuck.
“So Daniel. This is my wife. As you can tell, she’s still alive. Has to suck, doesn’t it. YUMADBRO?”
Amazing Promo! Can’t wait!
Makes sense. Shaw was part of Decker’s litany at the end of Cliffhanger, so it makes sense to bring him back … a one time deal, so Sarah can beat up on him, and TeamB can finish him off for good. Presumably (or at least possibly) he still has the Intersect, so it should be a very satisfying show-down.
I think that’s right. Should be a decisive smack down.
At the end of season 3, the CIA may not have had access to governor technology because they didn’t have Orion/Ellie’s laptop. Chuck quit the CIA so he had no reason to share it. So I always assumed Shaw’s brain melted. (That was the most satisfying assumption.) If he survived, they would have most likely de-intersected him last year when they developed the glasses. As a criminal, he’s be a security risk if he still held the government’s secrets. They didn’t even want Hartley to have an Intersect, despite the fact that his was 0.1 technology with no skills and no secrets.
I agree. I’m just wondering where it all fits in the longterm arc. Next week’s episode is a continuation of this week’s. It looks like someone is picking up where Decker left it and is trying to get Chuck framed. Then, we have Shaw come back in the Xmas episode. But, it must be a one-episode appearance because the “Chuck vs. the Baby” episode doesn’t seem to have anything to do with Shaw.
Fedak did say the Christmas episode would be an ending of sorts.
Right, Dave. And if I recall … a satisfying mid-season finale. So, I’m just not sweating it. We are supposed to hate villains, and I can’t think of a villain who’s more hatable.
I doubt this is the end of the conspiracy, but all the little guys are getting killed off. They’re may be working their way to the top. I was a bit surprised to see Decker go so soon.
With that idea of a mid season finale then Shaw definitely dies at the end. But as Billatwork suggested on Twitter it could very easily tie into Baby as Sarah’s handler may know why Eve Shaw was targeted. My feeling is she was dirty all along and we may find the answer to that then.
Chuckopalypse in 3, 2, 1… See you next year guys. Not doing this again.
That’s what you get for wish for Duck. You realize it could be a Duck and a Shate snuff episode.
Wait, what aren’t you doing? Shaw as a pure villain should be fine. He’s never going to be a fan favorite, but he has some comic value as a baddie.
I can’t help but think of the Joker’s “And here we go ” line from the Dark Knight.
I was stunned by “His” appearance, and not in a good way. What are TPTB THINKING?
“Hey you remember how everyone hated the season 3 Misery Arc? Remember how the ratings went down and the reviews were awful and the fanbase was horribly galvanized against us to the point we had to do damage control? Yeah, how about we revisit that well for Chuck’s sendoff?”
Absolutely flabbergasted that anyone thought this would be a good idea and/or appreciated in the last few episodes of Chuck ever.
Come on. Don’t you want to see Mrs. Bartowski kick him in the groin? Repeatedly?
I think it’s a great idea! I loved Shaw as a villain and it ties in with what Decker said earlier about it all being part of the plan.
For starters, I doubt they really care about ratings anymore.
And Shaw is not my favorite return they could have come up with. But he was good enough as a villain. And Sarah WILL hurt him, that just never gets old…
It’s funny, Shate stories have become a popular genre in fan fiction. Maybe TPTB want in on the fun…
Wow. Can’t wait to miss that.
See Ernie, I don’t see that happening because it is already dying down. It was the initial shock and maybe some will always hate the idea of bringing him back . But even though I didn’t want it to happen as long as Sarah ends up killing the bastard Mouser style at the end I’m now ok with it and I think many others will be as well. It may be a way of finally putting the misery to rest once and for all.
Poor Ernie. I’d blame Shaw but he might come back and haunt me.
Thought they were going to save Shaw till the end. In lots of ways, glad to see he might be one and done early.
Unlike Season 3, the show has told its story, Chuck and Sarah have gotten together for what, now 35 straight episodes, that is a bunch of great tv I got to see and am grateful for. And, again, unlike season 3, the show is over, the set is closed, the actors are unemployed. There is nobody to try to influence to change. It is what it is, we’ll see what Fedak thinks of his show in the next 8 episodes, Shaw’s story included.
But early this season, when some of you were talking about more Chuck, I kept saying I am glad it is over soon, Shaw’s return is the reason why, I simply don’t trust the show runners with the story I am interested in.
Amazing that in this last season, Fedak would give control of his story telling to this ridiculous sideshow, he must not want people to talk about his season 5, because all he did was reopen old season 3 wounds tonight. Oh well, whatever …
Some good points Jason. I think it will be good to just be done with Shaw too. I mostly trust Fedak now; but if he was still trying to get more episodes I would agree this was a big mistake.
Dave, with respect to fedak the decision for more episodes would have been made before the shaw episode would air. so the episode would not have had any affect on that. their fate was sealed after the first if not second episode.
If ratings were halfway decent it’s possible this would have been a big issue, and decisions would have been made imminently about a back order. But of course now it doesn’t matter at all.
I think it’s a bad PR decision, but it may well be perfectly fine as a story telling decision.
Dave, what i was saying is this. they wrapped up shooting on the 7th. so if they were on the bubble for more the decision would have to have been made weeks ago to allow for writing and production. an episode that aired tonight or later will have no impact at all in that decision. now if your talking about a s6 then it may have been a problem.
Haven’t seen the episode yet, but have been all over twitter.
I think it makes absolute sense from a storytelling standpoint – to close out what is still the big elephant in the storyline. I have to say I never thought they’d have the stones to do it, and I’m glad I’m wrong. I think Bob Greenblatt was pretty unequivocal in the summer that there wouldn’t be a back order, and it looks like Fedak took him at his word. Good. Don’t get me wrong, I thought everything about Shaw was a huge mistake, but you can’t ignore it once it’s out there. Close the story out well, and maybe you’ll reduce the sting for some people a little.
I agree, I hate things left unanswered in a TV show, and Shaw was one of those things. With Chuck ending I’m just glad we get some real closure and Sarah can lay her demons to rest once and for all.
I’m not sure what more closure we can get on Shaw. Sarah already punched him, whacked him with a steel pole, and arrested him. Maybe she can SAY Shaw was a mistake, but I was already content she knew that. Maybe some dialogue about how she was manipulated into forcing Chuck to do the Red Test, but I still don’t see anything new in that. I would love if she denied ever having been intimate with Shaw, but that’s unlikely and some might call it a retcon (we never saw anything, so to my mind it’s still fair game for clarification; but others will disagree).
Army they thought every season finale except S1 was likely the end of things, so it’s clearly not impossible for the studio to just leave sets idle for a couple weeks while negotiations continue with the network. But I do think between NBC’s reluctance to order more episodes from the start, and the disastrous ratings we’ve seen this season it’s been obvious for a while now that this is the end. But when they shot this episode, Fedak and Strahovski were still making comments like they hoped for more. So I’m just saying this was bad planning if they thought they might be in negotiation for a back order when this information came out.
Can we just disclaimer the next two weeks with Chuckwin’s Law?
Ok now that the shock has worn off surprisingly I can actually see the brilliance in this move but only under these circumstances. At the end of the episode in a Santa Clause throwback,one of Schwedak’s favorite episodes, Sarah puts a bullet between his eyes. It closes out an awful time for the fans in a satisfying way if that happens. It certainly has exploded in the fanbase plus putting the promo two weeks out allows the fans to calm down and grow the anticipation for Sarah killing Shaw. Plus it has to be her that does it a la Santa Claus.
I would love to see Shaw get the Mauser treatment…
Dave I really see that happening. That makes the most sense. It would be as satisfying a resolution to the worst period for the show in a way that is kind of a gift to the fans. Have married Sarah redeem pod Sarah by killing the biggest mistake of her life.
Mauser treatment would be just as bad as the misery arc. It would basically destroy every progress the Sarah character has made. They(Chuck and Sarah) should be past that.
I thought that was an obvious joke. Sarah won’t just be shooting anyone this time. There is the possibility some things will be set straight with the return of Shaw; but my expectations are fairly low for that, I think it’s more likely we get another entertaining take down of a despised villain and nothing more. And I really do expect it to be fun, I just don’t expect any real closure from the past.
Great ideas, guys. But I’m not sure that pulling a Mauser on Shaw would be the right thing. Sarah’s supposed to be a better person (not Graham’s wild-card enforcer) now. I’m hoping she finds something equally as satisfying, though.
I gotta admit, I have no idea what that might be. Chuck killing Shaw in Paris was satisfying. Chuck not killing him was even more satisfying because he stayed true to himself and because of Sarah’s reaction. I think Sarah will handle him in a most satisfying manner. But how???
I’ll bet she tells him that her name is Sarah Bartowski, though.
That would be cool, Joe. I’m getting a Cubic Z flashback:
“Hi, Sam.”
“The name’s Sarah Bartowski, and don’t you forget it.” *Slug*
I know what your saying, I truly do. But bringing the idiot back for Sarah to finish him off just makes Chuck look like a doofus for not doing it himself. Listen, I always thought thought bringing him back after Chuck shot him diminished the dramatic value of Chuck having killed him, having Sarah do it for him would not work for me in the least.
As far as closing the book of the moronic story line, this will be what, the 3rd time they’ve closed the book on it.
And I thought Morgansect wasn’t a good idea.
I would agree with that to some degree but Shaw wasn’t Chuck’s mistake, he was Sarah’s. She needs to end it once and for all is what they are going for I believe. Married Sarah redeems pod Sarah and exorcises that demon once and for all. I may not have chosen to go there but in many respects I’m not surprised Fedak did.
I really hope you guys aren’t setting yourselves up for disappointment. The show’s track record when it comes tying up loose ends is pretty bad and I don’t expect anything different.
Many TV shows do not tie up loose ends. They can’t because putting together dozens of stories requires a large bench of potential story lines. The exception is during final seasons, so there is hope. Some shows still like loose ends because of spin-off TV show or movie ideas (Stargate and Star Trek), or the romance of the continuing adventure (Quantum Leap).
I don’t expect Sarah to shoot Shaw like Mauser. She’s a civilian now. After what just happened to Casey, they should know better. A knee to the groin is more likely. However if the right circumstances present themselves.. cement boots are all the rage these days.
Cement boots, not bad. But what if they dissolve him in some chemicals – while he is still alive.
Why do I get the feeling we’re going to see some Shate fics appearing on FF in the next few days.
I’m not saying other shows aren’t guilty of the same thing but I can’t think of another that has swept so many under the rug like this one. They’ve said countless times they’re making it up as they go so I understand why it happens I just don’t think its good storytelling.
And you see THAT’S the problem, THEY are making it up. Never should a writer make anything up, it should always be the characters that drive a story forward.
@Fogh, JC: Agreed.
The first 2 seasons always struck me as having more organic, character-driven stories. That went out the window with Pink Slip; splitting up Chuck and Sarah was not only the root cause of the S3 disaster, the way it was done was so arbitrary and contrived that it made things even worse.
The showrunners inability (or refusal) to resolve so many of the dramatic threads they have introduced adds to the problem. It suggests that either they have ADD or they think that the audience has nothing else to watch. So, to use Mxpw’s imagery, The Man Behind the Curtain has come out front where everyone can see him.
http://insidetv.ew.com/2011/12/09/the-mentalist-terra-nova-himym-ncis-spoiler-room/3/
Sandra, I heard Chuck and Sarah share kisses with other people in the Christmas episode. Hints/anything to add? — Melissa
Personally, I was most amused by the almost-kiss that happened between guest star Stan Lee and -e—– —–a-!! Also, two members of the team will find themselves in life-or-death situations (pretty par for the course), but one will get dangerously close to the latter option. So much so that they actually say some very sad goodbyes!
hmm. Maybe Plywood is the one who is threatening a captive Sarah’s life and allows her to make one call to say her last goodbyes to Chuck.
I have to say, I’m kind of surprised so many people think Sarah is going to kill Shaw. I honestly don’t see that happening. For one thing, she’s no longer an agent. She can’t just go around killing people at whim. And more importantly, that’s not really this show’s style. Unless it’s a dream, I doubt any killing will be happening.
I really have no clue what Fedak was thinking bringing Shaw back. So I’m not going to focus on the stupidity and try to not care. Although, I can’t help but wonder how the heck did Shaw get into Castle in the first place? *scratches head*
Shaw may well have some heavy connection to this so called conspiracy that Decker kept referring too. Or he was simply put in as one of Deckers lackies to follow through on whatever plan he had going. As long as he gets a bit of a beating I’m happy (that includes at least one boot in the crotch)
I think we all get that an actual killing is unlikely (although self defense works just fine in the private sector…)
A smack down and arrest is far more likely, and involves far less red tape.
But for the record, I don’t find the return of Shaw terribly interesting either way. What Fedak was thinking bringing back such a despised character is far more intriguing.
Arrogance – seems to me that he simply refuses to admit he was wrong. He (and many fans) seem to subscribe to the notion that if you click your heels together three times and repeat the phrase, He was a great villain, he was a great villain, he WAS a great villain, that somehow the miserable judgement used in creating season 3’s story will go away. As seen by the reaction, it will not, as pretty much the last second or two of the promo cast of foul stench over the entire, rather awesome episode, that nobody seems capable of even discussing. When a 800 lb gorilla craps in a small room, people can’t help but notice. But it isn’t the gorilla’s fault, it is the guy who brought him in there. In this case, this is Fedak’s third strike with Daniel Shaw, literally casting a foul stench on three separate stretches of this show.
I do hope they fill in some gaps that were unanswered during that part of season 3 no one wants to talk about. This would be the opportunity to do this.
Maybe TPTB are redeeming their own Shaw villain arc, rather than giving the Sham arc closure. To me the Sham arc is over — done, though I know some disagree. As Dave (I think) said she punched him, expressed utter contempt for him, hit him up side of the head with a steel pole, and arrested him. I agree that bringing him back is not very good PR, but story wise, it will be OK. We may get added closure to all things Shaw.
Obviously, he will try to get under Sarah’s skin, because he’s a slimy, detestable villain. I will be glad to see her beat up on him again. Chuck or Sarah killing is out of the question, unless it’s obvious self-defense. I do think he’ll end up dead, though. Either obvious self-defense or incidental to a big fight, or maybe GB will do the honors, if only to save CS from the legal implications.
I’m hoping, though, that there’s more to it than that, like understanding more of the conspiracy puzzle … it’s purpose, Shaw’s role in it, Decker’s role, and a hint at who the main players are. I hope in the next couple of episodes we come to see why Chuck is “special” and must fail.
For something that’s “not very interesting”, it certainly has sparked a lot of reaction.
I certainly has woken some people up.
lol. Of course it wood 😉
I ‘m very disappointed that this is generating so much more talk than the excellent episode we just saw! I just want to enjoy what’s left of Chuck, but instead here we are discussing something that we don’t even know anything about yet.
That IS rather disappointing. I said my peace about Hack Off on another site. I think it was the best episode of the season and light years better than last week’s “meh” episode.
But, this is the spoiler/speculation section. I think Shaw is back for just one episode and he will be key to them solving the puzzle of who is behind the conspiracy against them. I have been expecting his return. The surprise to me is how surprised people are.
I was sort of expecting him to return, after his mention by Decker in Cliffhanger. I was totally shocked to see that he is turning up. I mean there was no spoilers or anything. Not sure how they managed to keep that under wraps.
Lappers I had seen the rumor around for a few weeks that Routh had been seen on the Chuck set. I’m not sure if it was ever mentioned here, but I know it never would have been posted up top since we didn’t know anything for sure until last night.
DKD you are completely right that speculation belongs in this thread. But we’ve added more posts to this thread since last night than we have to the episode discussion thread! (and a large chunk of that is about Shaw too!). And you know I disagree about Business Trip; I still consider that the best of a strong season.
I think it’s just getting better, we’re finally getting to the meat of it all.
I’ve said my thing about this episode. I liked it, but think it ranks #3 in best episodes of the season. The episode felt somewhat rushed and although the references were fan-freakin-tastic (It has to have been Zachary Levi who got Freddie Wong in. It just has to be. Plus the plethora of Razer gear used? Yep, definitely ZL) the story fell flat for me and it felt more like a filler episode. The jokes worked okay, Yvonne Strahovski killed it with her facial expressions (but that’s a given anyway) Carrie-Anne Moss was awesome and the joke about Victoria Beckham made me crack up. But other than that, there wasn’t a whole lot of interesting stuff going on. The hacking scene was funny but that’s about it. Still, I think it was better than Zoom and Frosted Tips, so there’s that.
I just had thought, isn’t there only 1 entrance into castle. How the hell did he get in without anyone noticing, unless there was no one in the Buy More. I guess it’s something we will have to find out on Xmas Eve.
There’s at least three, or there has been. The main one in the theater room, one in the employee break room, and a “secret” entrance Cole used.
true but by the looks of it he enters through the main elevator, which is off the theatre room I think
Yeah it did look that way. Funny thing is, that might be the easiest to get to being in a publicly accessible space. All he would need is whatever access codes are used to get into the elevator, and I wouldn’t be surprised if the CIA still had some way of over-riding the system. (although to be completely logical, Chuck would have likely replaced all government original equipment with his own).
Also there is the one in Orange Orange. In the Beard there were some pretty long tunnels that may imply other entrances.
We haven’t seen the Orange Orange now since S3. I wonder if that space has been closed up or if there’s some other cover business there now?
Realistically, the set was probably re-purposed. In the show, Sarah exits through the Buy More. That probably means they do not own the shop, which would provide more deniability. I like to think that Sarah wanted to Buy the entire Buy More Plaza in a veiled attempt to raise the rent on Lou’s sandwich shop to put her out of business, but Chuck talked her down and they bought the satellite instead. The government sold the shop to somebody else.
Now this is just a WAG but I think that Shaw is coming back to set the stage for what comes next, I think that he starts the thing with Sarah’s secret from her past. My guess is that something happened in her past that changed the path that she was on, from a somewhat normal life to that of a spy. Someone is manipulating people, much the way that Shaw was manipulated by the death of his wife, Sarah was manipulated into becoming a spy ( and ultimately is manipulating things against Chuck). In much the same way that Shaw didn’t know the truth of who had had his wife killed, Sarah doesn’t know the truth of the secret in her past, her actions and fears are based on what she thinks she has done, not on what she has really done.
I can see Shaw taunting her with the secret, even it involving the Sam reveal, “I didn’t understand why you wouldn’t have told Chuck your real name Sam, but he wouldn’t have loved Sam, considering what she has done…( to her family?)”. But like Shaw with Eve, Sarah doesn’t know the truth of her own past. Her biggest fear would be to lose Chuck’s love and she would be loath to have him find out what she believes happened.
Resolving her past might put her back on the path that she was on before the manipulation answering the question from Hack Off of what she would do in this new Carmicheal Industries that Chuck is thinking of. Chuck can help her to get back onto the path she was on before she was diverted to the CIA. Oh yeah I also think that this was all part of Graham’s evil plan. Time will tell if any of this holds water.
You do bring up a very interesting thought herder, that whatever reveal we’re about to get about Sarah may be the very thing that makes it easy for her to walk away at the end of the season.
I’m confused. Didn’t we already discover how Sarah became a spy? Didn’t that happen in Cougars? Either Graham manipulated Jack into being arrested or he was just really on the ball, but both options were presented pretty obviously as a possibility in that episode. We saw her recruitment. She was recruited at 17 or 18, and has been with the Agency in some respect ever since. What is there left to discover?
She was just a teenager, what horrible things could she have possibly done before being recruited that would make her so afraid of Chuck finding out? He already knows she pulled cons.
I guess I just don’t understand what you mean.
Well I don’t suppose they just gave a 17 or 18 year old a badge and a gun and sent her out to join the CAT squad, neither are they likely to kill her if she decides that this isn’t what she wants. So there should be some time between high school and becoming an agent, during that time she might have had doubts about what she was doing or her mother may have expressed concern that what she was doing was changing her. I’m talking about something happening during this period when she may have had other options that caused a break with her mother and caused her to make the final commitment to the CIA.
I truly hope they don’t use the one eyebrow agent to expose something else about Sarah’s past that she should have shared with Chuck.
I still hoping he’s some sort of 3 second flashback nightmare and nothing else.
don’t know this guy but he posted pictures of his filming the last episode of chuck on his wall.
http://www.facebook.com/VladimirKulichFanPage?sk=wall
Mama Walker Alert!
http://www.spoilertv.com/2011/12/chuck-season-5-first-look-at-sarahs-mum.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=tumblr
What could they be looking at? Hmmmmm.
Baby Clara? MamaWalker helps Sarah babysit while talking about making her a grandmother.
here is a little more info on that same subject and babies, actually maybe more than a little info, click at your own discretion:
http://www.tvguide.com/News/Chuck-Sarahs-Mom-1040735.aspx
Now I’m scared.
As many of you know by now, I am a shipper and a fan of lite, warm, funny, action Chuck. If I wrote the spoilers / opinions down, the 7th and 8th have many soap opera components to them (Sarah’s ex lover shows up, she secretly kisses him, but she has an even bigger secret she is keeping from her husband, her long lost mother & mysterious handler show up, after all the teasing about babies, the ep is titled vs the baby, etc, etc, etc). Hope ‘soap opera Chuck’ is a fake out as I don’t think either the mythology or the shipper crowd like the soap opera version of Chuck, might be the only thing we agree on.
I also like asking ?’s to frame my opinion about future events, only two come to mind which might shape what I think of what appears to be two episodes of misery (7th and 8th), and only one is important – the first one, the second is more intellectual curiosity over the nature of Fedak’s personality.
1 – At the end of ‘vs the baby’ will CS be as much or more of a in love and in trust couple as they were when 4×24 or 5×5 ended? If so, I think I will be ok?
2 – Will Shaw’s actual role:
A – Disappoint shippers or those who don’t like Shaw so much
B – Disappoint those who think he is either great or his appearance was an awesome twist
C – Disappoint neither, everyone will like and some will even love what he does
D – Disappoint everyone
Were it me, speaking as a businessman, I would only take a risk, if I thought the payback was enormous, I am pretty sure Fedak is going to ‘think’ he has done the best thing ever with Shaw, time will tell.
1) Yes, but maybe at the end of 5×09 if they make it a loose two-parter. Based on today’s photo, which seems like an end of episode shot, 5×08 seems safe.
2) A little A, hopefully, C, but also E – Anger people who see red whenever Shaw is thought about. These people won’t care how well or how poorly his reappearance is done. They will ignore his actual role, complain about how bad is go crazy on the boards, and smack repeatedly into Chuckwin’s Law.
So far we haven’t seen too much of E. A little maybe, he’ll never be my favorite character to see; but that mainly makes me indifferent to his return.
I’m surprised how little shippers care, it seems those who hate shippers want us to care more about this than we do – funny really. I have no idea how Shaw will play out, but if Fedak means to throw a curve ball with Shaw, it is not a forgone conclusion that shippers will hate the S5 Shaw story. I’d place the odds at 50/50 that if Shaw is one and done, that I will enjoy his appearance, if he stays longer, or returns, much lower odds I will be entertained. There are too many important things to get done yet, to get distracted by this season 3 sideshow.
I think part of it is we’re not really worried about Shaw coming between Chuck and Sarah again. Of course there’s other sorts of mischief he can do, but most of that is the sort of stuff any random baddie could be written to do (threaten Sarah with secrets from her past or try to kill someone they love again).
Shaw’s return could be a wonderful thing if some of the ghosts from the past are effectively exorcized. Or it could be terrible if Sarah is shown to be an even bigger dip-wad than we already saw in S3. But the most likely scenarios fall somewhere in between those extremes and a simple “miss me” just isn’t enough to generate too much excitement from me either way.
Jason:
Interesting. From a business point of view, precious little of anything TPTB have done since the first minute of Pink Slip has made any sense.
Let’s see what happens now; I just hope it has nothing to do with that soap opera point of view you mentioned. (shiver).
1) I can see C&S in a better place after the drama, or at least what TPTB intend to be a better place. However the difference between “intent” and “as presented” will likely be left to how, we the fans, connect the dots as to how they got there. I don’t mind drama, just please let it be resolved satisfactorily.
2) By my few last comments (yeah, OK, rants) you would swear I’m an E. Not so. If the story is well told, believable, makes sense and I don’t have to hernia myself reaching to make it work or fit the storyline then I won’t mind Shaw. My biggest fear was never Sh**. It is how they present the other characters (yes – mostly Sarah) in order to try and make Sh** work. They haven’t twisted any charcaters to make Gertrude work. That should also be the case with Sh**.
Honestly, I’m now just as concerned about the, “After this, you will know Sarah as a different character.” comment from CF when discussing 5.08. (Can you spell RETCON?)
I would agree with all of that exactly. Although I think I have a higher expectation of being satisfied than you do; but you identified the risk/reward situation perfectly.
That quote bothers me a tiny bit too. However, my favorite non-Charah moment in the entire series was in Cougars when Sarah dug up the money box and Graham recruited her. She was a different character to me after that, but it was not a retcon. The flashbacks in Delorean and Wedding Planner were also great. Another family/background episode could have the same effect.
Ok here’s my take on part of this. Shaw is there to tie up loose ends on the show. Its to put and end to dangling stories. Chuck and Sarah will never be truly safe as long as he is alive. So I absolutely see another ending like Hack Off with an X across Shaw’s face. I’m now leaning towards Beckman being the one who kills him as she has legal authority to do so. She may even admit it was the worst mistake of her career to ever accept putting him on Team Bartowski because he almost destroyed it with his vendetta. We will see the announcer say ok 2 bad guys down.
There may be a tie in with Baby in that Sarah’s handler may know why Eve Shaw was targeted. He may be the only person other than Graham who does. After all Sarah had the intel on why Hunter Perry was chosen for Chuck. That will clean up a loose end for Sarah in that it was a justifiable kill order.
Then we have our next villain who at the end of the finale with be the third X as in 3 strikes you are out and Chuck and Sarah are safe to leave the spy game and have lots of babies. The big loss that is being teased is I believe Casey quits Carmichael Industries to go work with Gertrude.
Some excellent comments Uplink. I hadn’t even considered that possibility with Casey. It might make a lot of sense if Carmichael Industries is to become a tech company. Although that doesn’t seem like such a huge loss to me…
Yeah Dave, I agree it doesn’t fit the huge loss. Since we know that all of the regulars are there in the last two episodes, I’m afraid it will be far more personal to the both of them.
I’ve been trying to figure out who is the “big loss”. Then, I realized that just because all the main cast seems to have been needed to film SOMETHING in the final episode, doesn’t mean that something wasn’t a death scene.
What are you thinking, like a miscarriage or something? I’m just at a loss, I don’t know.
Although as Jeff suggests below if it means Casey is heading over seas, possibly off grid to be with Gertrude it would at least be a little traumatic.
That is a valid point DKD; much as Orion was in the episode after he was killed. Which would immediately make me suspect Frost as the next loss. Although Casey may be the next best candidate.
What I meant was that somebody actually dies in the final episode.
But, I have other possibilities swimming my head as well. Like someone or several people faking their deaths in order to disappear the way Orion did several times.
this is the quote from the spoiler I referenced above:
“Expect Chuck (Zachary Levi) and Sarah to discuss baby making and suffer a great loss just before the two-hour January 27 finale”
So the loss would have to occur in the Bullet Train episode. The good news is from my POV, CS are together after 5×11 seemingly in a good, albeit menacing place.
I am pretty sure I saw a clip of AB on the plane for the skydiving scene in the final. That leaves Morgan as the only member of the Big 4 unaccounted for? Other candidates might include Beckman, Ellie (no way however), Awesome, and any of the lesser regulars, who would not seem like a great loss?
Ok, I sent this spec out in a BTS email a couple of weeks ago. Now, I’ll post it.
Because someone said that the Christmas episode could be a finale of sorts, I speculated that the episode would end with Sarah pregnant or a pregnancy-test cliffy, but that they would lose the baby before the finale. In light of these recent spoilers, that spec is sounding a little more plausible. It’s a little heavy, but not as bad as some things could be, I guess.
I’m bracing myself for a some personal Bartowski drama, but I still trust that all will end with them as solid as ever … even more so … the couple we love and love to root for.
I’d forgotten that Thinkling! That fits the known facts VERY nicely.
Jason, Morgan isn’t unaccounted for. There was a photo of what was supposed to be a final Morgan/Chuck scene.
Thinkling–very interesting spec. Very interesting indeed.
In general—I’m not 100% positive the TV Guide reporter is thinking of episode 12 and 13 in combination when they refer to the finale or thinking just of episode 13.
Addendum–
One thing I noticed about pictures released when they were filming 5122 or 512 is that there were a lot of photos of Chuck, Morgan, and Casey with guns, but Sarah was not with them.
I meant 511. Is there anyway to edit posts after they are posted?
Beckman offing Shaw would be an interesting twist. Technically she doesn’t have the _legal_ authority to kill him either. But black ops normally doesn’t worry about legal authority, because they get away with it.
I think Shaw will be the third strike, with Rebecca Romijn being the second. They’ll have a different shtick by the finale.
If Casey plays out like you suggest and Gertrude is overseas, there could be a overly sentimental scene with Casey entrusting his daughter to Morgan.
I like that Jeff! What a dynamite send-off that would be.
Read this and you will get a pretty good idea about the Santa Suit episode, if there was any doubt about Shaw’s intentions …. well read at your own peril ….. muaha
http://www.buddytv.com/articles/chuck/chuck-season-5-spoilers-a-shoc-43103.aspx
Thanks! several of them, even though they sound ominous, can really be pushed to the side as it were. thanks to modern technology and the internet we know who’s around in the next episode and on.
Chuck vs the Curse Sneak Peak 1
Chuck vs the Curse, Sneak Peak 2
Cute stuff in both videos, but no real answers.
In case people forgot the first half of the promo (due to some guy in the second half), it looks like Awesome gets more of a taste of the spy life.
(Suppose I work for the government and I’m hunting suspected murderers and terrorists Chuck Bartowski and Sarah Walker. Where might they go? The current location of Jack Burton is unknown… Hmm… Wait. Didn’t Chuck dad own a cabin that was used for the Alexi Volkoff take-down? We should check there. I bet the military even has GPS coordinates.)
You know what? I don’t care about this plot hole.
Maybe it’s a good think that Sarah may not have changed her name. It’s defense against the curse.
Jeff, i won’t bet on the location, they went there for crying out loud. they know exactly where it is, lol.
We don’t know how long Chuck and Sarah intended to stay at the cabin, but isn’t this the same plot logic that makes them continually say that the Buy More is a great cover for spy work despite the fact that every enemy they have knows about it.
If we weren’t tolerant of poor logic, all of us would have stopped watching long ago.
Exactly, dkd. A few people still like to bring up plot holes after every episode, so I decided to preempt that one by saying I don’t care ahead of time.
I forgot to look in Push Mix. I’m kind of hoping Sarah’s hatchet is still embedded in the wall.
Despite the plot hole, I love that they went there. It gives a sense of continuity and yay! A character actually thinking about his past!
Also, I wonder if this could usher in a Papa Bartowski return, of if this is just a not to him…
I’ve never bought into a PapaB return, except in flashbacks. (I did think Bryce would return because his eyes were open during the Intersect 2.0 download. But that was before White Collar.)
However, I just realized the computer in PapaB’s cabin is an Orion computer. It is probably more powerful than anything at Castle. Could it have the Intersect?
I really don’t care either way if the cabin computer has an Intersect. However, it would present some interesting possibilities. Sarah is there, too. Walkersect anyone? She already has the fighting skills. But, what if she did the code hacking for an episode?
They would have to remove the Intersect quickly after the rescues Chuck and Devon. Even if the Walkersect did not have the virus, they couldn’t risk it. What little pop cultural knowledge she has must be protected at all costs.
Oooohhhh! Thanks for the clips, Jeff. Love that first one (and am fantasizing about being in Devon’s shoes ATM… 😉 ).
I’m getting a definite vibe from the few spoilers I’ve seen (and from the comments here) that we’re about to head into a very serious streak.
Joe….. um, What’s so special about Devon’s shoes?
[I’m expecting to hear, ” Go Go Gaget…” in your reply] : )
chiplescap posted this on a spoiler site, enjoy!
I’m willing to bet that Chuck never actually gets tortured.
things that make you go hmmmmmm….. Wendy, our favorite crew/makeup lady from Chuck tweeted a photo and message that today – Tuesday Dec 13 was the last day of Chuck.
Ryan McP was in the photo….. hmmmm – perhaps a wee bit of additional editing footage required?
Or was Awesome part of something else they were trying to keep secret?
Or maybe he was just helping to clean up and take down the sets : )
I saw that. I thought it was a photo from last week that she got around to posting yesterday. Not a photo taken yesterday.
I’m not exactly sure where to put this, but the spoiler threads are as good a place as any.
Via The Instapundit, here’s an article that implies The Intersect is slightly less fictional than I thought.
Apparently, I’ve entered the 21st century!
Oh Boy. Mega Buzz has a spoiler (of sorts) up, and some ain’t gonna like it.
Seems we may not be quite done with The Morgansect just yet.
http://www.tvguide.com/News/Mega-Buzz-Good-Wife-AHS-NCIS-Spoilers-1040808.aspx
Will Morgansect rear his ugly (frosted) head again on Chuck? — Marcus
NATALIE: Sadly, yes. “It may not be the last time you see the frosted tips,” executive producer Chris Fedak teases. In the meantime, though, Morgan has fences to mend. “Morgan’s going to be desperate to try to get Alex back but… that’s not an easy thing to do,” Fedak says. “He broke up with her on a text message. He turned into a douche.”
Also
http://chucktv.net/2011/12/13/spoilers-scoop-on-stan-lees-cameo-on-chuck/
In the new issue of TV Guide, the actual magazine that you read in line at the supermarket, Michael Logan has scoop on Stan Lee’s cameo in Chuck episode 5.07, “Chuck vs. the Santa Suit”.
“We loved the idea that Chuck Bartowski isn’t the only wackadoodle espionage agent working in Los Angeles. Stan Lee is secretly doing it, too,” says co-creator Chris Fedak. “We also reveal that Stan once had an interlude with our very own General Beckman.
Alas, there was no time to reunite the two under the mistletoe. Someone has released a computer virus – known as the “Omen” – in order to destroy Chuck’s company. Now the virus has gone global, “people are furious and storming the Buy More on Christmas Eve to get their computers fixed – nobody’s buying anything!” Fedak says. “It’s up to Chuck’s two best computer experts – Jeff and Lester – to save the store and the world.”
The mystery of who’s behind the virus is just one of many shocks, says Fedak. “We end the episode with one of the craziest cliffhangers we’ve ever done.”
The article has a photo of Stan Lee, Zachary Levi, and Bonita Fredericy as well, but unfortunately I’m without a scanner right now. Sneak a peek next time you’re waiting to buy your groceries.
“Chuck vs. the Santa Suit” airs Friday, December 23 at 8/7c on NBC
So I have this theory that came to me in the shower this morning, where, let’s face it, all great theories come from.
Has anybody here seen Serenity? The movie is that based off the Joss Whedon series Firefly, and In it, one of the characters is psychic, and was tested on by the government, and after she escapes the government goes after her because as one of the characters said: “you put key members of parliament in a room with a psychic.” Which means she now has an intensely bad and dangerous secret in her head.
Now, we’ve seen that Chuck may have held onto some things from the Intersect. He anticipated all of Morgan’s moves in “Frosted Tips” after all. What if these big wigs that Decker was working for are afraid that Chuck has held onto a super incriminating, super bad secret of theirs? Something worse than the Agent X/Hartley/Volcoff thing?
I thought epiphanies came on the bog, does for me. Anyway, yeah I do like that idea, in fact I’ve always been keen on the idea that the intersect Chuck had, had left some imprints in his brain so he still had some of the intersect skills and information.
That would explain why he is so valuable, even though he is not intersected. Might not coincide with each and every detail, but at this point, what theory will? What if the fear is he knows the identity of the big bad, or should I say the biggest bad, the guy pulling the strings.
Couple more random musings:
One biggest bad candidate that would explain away a huge hole in the mythology, would be if Momma B (she wasn’t gone to protect Volkov, she was gone because she was evil). She has been one of the few characters who has been around from the start, and has working knowledge of everything and everyone. Plus, the show would come full circle to meet up with Irina Derevko and Alias. The final dramatic scene would be Mary and Chuck, while Sarah and the others are finishing off any of Mary’s henchmen who remain.
Finally, one of the themes of the show has been that spies must leave their family to protect them. I wonder if the mystery that Sarah and Emma share will be some variation of that theme.
Irina’s sudden desire to blow up the western capitals came out of no where and seemed like a quickly forced ending of the series. All of a sudden she was an insane Russian nationalist where the whole series she had been a power manipulator, Rambaldi follower, and protector of Sydney. She went from mastermind to mustache twirler. If Frost is bad, I hope it makes more sense than that.
Well Jeff, you nailed it, but isn’t that more or less what is called for here, and doesn’t Mary qualify. At this point, any big bad backstory used will have to invent a remarkable amount of stuff to fill in the blanks, Mary sort of has half the blanks filled in, and her improbably 20 hiatus away from her family, would make 100% sense, as she is evil (and probably needed to stay away, much like Irina). From Volkov’s side, she could have easily been the mastermind, as even Volkov appeared to be somewhat malleable?
Jason, one better than that would be if it were orion. if you think back to all the things his dad did to keep him out of the biz, i wouldn’t put it past him to try and ruin his son’s spy biz to keep him out of the life, lol. it would explain the lap top as well. he wanted it found so ellie could improve it and load up a bunch of agents with the intersect taking the need for chuck to be the intersect away. he wouldn’t even have to appear in the show for that information to come out would he? maybe he and mary were working together?
In spite of any logic, and I’d be the first to agree her twenty year mission has not been (and cannot be) satisfactorily explained, but I just don’t see them taking such a dark turn. Especially right at the finale when there is no chance at character redemption. It just doesn’t seem very a chuck-like to me. I think they’d rather give us a warm and fuzzy ending; so my guess is the big bad will be someone we haven’t even heard of yet. Although the name seems likely to pop up in one of the next two episodes.
The 20-year disappearance is an issue, but I’m figuring the show is going to ignore that. It would be an explanation, though.
Angus Macfadyen is around for 3-4 episodes, I think. So that would provide a little time to develop him and his motives. Hopefully, the reasons in Chuck are not abruptly spelled out in the last 10 minutes of the last episode.
If I remember Season 5 of Alias, Irina was behind kidnapping Sydney when she gave birth, but that was Rembadli related. She apologized, made an excuse about protecting Sydney, and then fled at the bank. They suddenly at the end of the very last episode, she just wanted to blow up everything and was willing to kill Sydney to do it. It felt like they skipped a couple of episodes because the season was cut to 17 episodes.
One other thought, I doubt they’ll do this, but I’d love to see Graham as the ultimate baddie. And yes, I think he should still be dead. But I love the idea of things he set in motion are still continuing; there’s something frightening and mechanistic about a plot unfolding from beyond the grave. Of course you need to have some living agent still executing those plans, but in the end they may not be that important. It just be Graham’s nefarious schemes coming to fruition. Bonus points if Chuck and Sarah together was a part of the twisted plot all along, but of course our favorite twosome manages to unravel things such that they are the undoing of the plot instead of its fulfillment.
Jeff – I am thinking that McFadden cat will serve as the ‘Stark’ role, the guy Sarah takes out while Chuck takes Mary out. Orion also makes some sense, other than he was such a putz the entire while other than the first few eps he appeared in. One of the problems I had with season 2, is Orion was a great character, till we met Stephen. Of course, what if there is another, i.e. the Orion we met early in s2, the guy killing bad guys with unmanned missles, was not Stephen???? Then again, maybe that was Mary???? My head now hurts!
I think the biggest bad, the Puppet Master is someone we don’t know, yet. But, like others, I wouldn’t be a bit surprised to find that Langston Graham was right in the middle of it … if not the head of it.
I watched Swordfish leading up to the last episode because Fedak mentioned it would be mentioned in the episode and I had never seen the movie.
I wonder of Angus McFayden’s character is like John Travolta’s character in that movie–a super intelligent person who constructs intricate plans and uses people as pawns in those plans and then discards them. Jackman’s hacker character tried to outsmart him, but he couldn’t.
Just a thought. The writer’s have used stuff from movies to “inspire” them before.
another promo different from the rest. its about 1 min long and features morgan and alex, plus a surprise! enjoy.
“You live with your girlfriend’s father?”
Somebody finally pointed out the most implausible thing in the entire show.
Too bad Gertrude is gone. I kinda want to see a Alex/Gertrude scene. Maybe later.
Great clip, Army. Thanks!
This is the most implausible thing, Jeff? Really? 😉
Can’t tell you how glad I am to see Alex and Morgan together in the same frame again so quickly! I’m a little surprised at that, but happy!
Well if you take it to it’s logical conclusion, Morgan would have been killed long ago. Do you really think Casey would respect a sock on the doorknob? Guns are readily available, Alex has an aversion to pants when she’s wearing Morgan’s T-shirts, and Morgan doesn’t have a verbal filter. Casey could probably make it look like an accident.
My guess is Alex and Morgan were arguing about Casey being on the run and/or Morgan hiding the secret of his whereabouts before the CIA team came in. But even an argument would be a start.
I’m with Jeff on this. The whole idea sort of makes my brain hurt. Even worse, Morgan and Alex were already together when Morgan moved in with Casey. Morgan is such a doofus…
(I guess that goes without saying)
Is the surprise the appearance of one of the Observers from Fringe?? 🙂
LOL, sorry no the cia showing up! i didnt want to reveal it all!
Holy crap, at 0:56 seconds, it’s bald Mesut Özil.
“CHUCK VERSUS THE KEPT MAN”
01/06/2012 (08:00PM – 09:00PM) (Friday) : GERTRUDE VERBANSKI RETURNS WITH A MISSION FOR CHUCK AND A PROPOSITION FOR CASEY — CARRIE-ANNE MOSS GUEST STARS — While Chuck (Zachary Levi) and Sarah (Yvonne Strahovski) contemplate the next step for Carmichael Industries, Casey’s (Adam Baldwin) forbidden love, Gertrude Verbanski (guest star Carrie-Anne Moss, “The Matrix”), walks back into his life with a questionable mission in South Beach. Meanwhile, Jeff’s (Scott Krinsky) enhanced intelligence leads he and Lester (Vik Sahay) to suspect that something unusual may be happening at the Buy More. Joshua Gomez, Ryan McPartlin and Mark Christopher Lawrence also star.
=========
Verbanski and a “PROPOSITION”,
Go Jeff!
That really sounds like a fun episode. And it’s funny that enough pieces are already in place we can understand most of the plot points; new direction for Carmichael Industries, Gertrude on the lam, and smart Jeff…
“Meanwhile, Jeff’s (Scott Krinsky) enhanced intelligence leads he and Lester (Vik Sahay) to suspect that something unusual may be happening at the Buy More.”
You don’t finally think that Jeff and Lester will find out about the whole spy thing do you?Though being final season I wouldn’t be too surprised if they did.
Well, don’t forget that Jeff’s psychic abilities revealed to them both that “C-I-A” was involved with Ellie’s missing computer…
Gee! I hope Jeff hasn’t lost his psychic abilities!
So far, season 5 is all about loss. Chuck lost the Intersect. Morgan lost the Intersect and Alex. Casey lost his license to kill and Gertrude. Some people say Sarah lost her killer instinct (not me). Big Mike and Ellie lost screen time. Lester lost what very little sense of write and wrong he had left. Awesome lost a chance to bond with Clara (his choice).
Jeff had to have lost is psychic ability.
The second have can be about getting new things or getting the old things back.
Joe. Cia? Really, what kind of name is Cia? 😉
Precisely, Think! 😉
Each and every remaining episode that imply Chuck and Sarah are on the same side working together is a great sign, after whatever miserable things happen in the 7th and 8th eps, looks like they are still together at the start of the 9th, awesome. I wonder if Chuck (or the audience for that matter) know what ‘secret’ Sarah is keeping from her husband which will change their lives forever? With this info, seems Casey is the top candidate for the ‘Kept Man’, unless somehow or other Jeff and Lester think Sarah owns the Buymore, making Chuck the ‘Kept Man’?
Many Chuck titles have double meanings. I think both of your kept men are likely.
a long time ago they spoiled this i think. i believe its a scientist that’s being held, i cant find the names of the guest stars however.
Right. Many titles do have double meanings. Sounds like Casey will be a little like a kept man, and the client or bad guy will be the other. Jeff and Lester poking around the Buymore is something I’ve been expecting and looking forward to. Love the idea they may think Sarah is their boss. They’ve always thought Chuck was beneath her and totally unqualified for spy work (Best Friend, was it?). This should be a hoot. Probably the light-hearted episode before the last dramatic arc.
Maybe I’m crazy, but I still think great things are in store for the next three.
You’re not crazy alone Thinkling, I’m expecting great things too!
The Bracelet Returns!!!! Sarah is wearing the bracelet in the promo for Santa Claus!!!
Hmm, I didn’t notice. I just saw red (again) when I saw Plywood. LOL. Now we can guess how that dickwad ends up kissing Sarah- she is a captive in of the frames – even so it makes my skin crawl. 😦
She has it on when she is hanging by her hands. And I guess you are right that the only way plywood gets to kiss her is when she is tied up.
That was about as depressing a promo as I have ever seen. Does Shaw beat Sarah up, then tie her up so we can see her beaten face the entire episode, then he forces his lips on hers while her hands are tied and she is semi conscious, is that what it is going to be? Seriously? And fans are looking forward to that?
@jason – I don’t understand what TPTB are going to convey by that scene (Plywood kissing Sarah). After all she killed his wife and he was obsessed about his wife’s death. Will it have some context? Spite? Some twisted insane jealousy? Or is it just TPTB subliminally “flipping the bird” at the fans? – I am going with the last one until the episode airs and I see what actually happens.
BTW for the ‘epic’ showdown between Chuck and Plywood to happen, the writers obviously have to immobilize (Sarah) and incapacitate (Casey). How can they have them interfering in that ‘epic’ fight?
Also nothing in the promo to suggest any secrets being hidden by Sarah. Does she make some kind of deal with Plywood so that he lets the others go and takes only her for his revenge?
He ties her up so she can watch Chuck die. That’s what his entire journey’s been about. An eye for an eye sorta thing. Don’t think he’ll do a whole lot interesting with regards to Sarah. I think the kiss might be a Volkoff callback when he did the same. (kiss Mary when he said he would kill Orion) but honestly, I stopped caring. I’m excited for the episode and that’s more than enough :p
I don’t think it is. At a brief look it looks like the one she wore in the beginning of Balcony.
Article about “Chuck vs. Santa Suit”. Check out the picture of Shaw in it. Someone worked his face over real good.
http://www.examiner.com/tv-insider-in-los-angeles/chuck-s-chris-fedak-and-zachary-levi-discuss-christmas-and-daniel-shaw
Funny interview. I don’t want to make too big a thing of this, I mean seriously I expect to be fine with this episode and much of the buzz is very positive. But I really think TPTB are bit delusional if they think the bulk of the fandom actually WANTS to see Shaw return. I think most of us would be fine to never hear his name again. Again, I have to be very clear on this, I’m not terribly “worried” about his return in any way. But he brings back no good memories for me either, I would prefer they skipped the whole thing. I’d much rather see Volkoff/Hartley return; or even the number four thug from Tango, you know the guy Casey punched in the forehead and stuffed in the freezer. Much more nuanced character and a more compelling performance with more fond memories…
Thug #1, Uri, came back as Yuri the Gobbler. Getting all of the thugs back for a reunion episode is asking for too much, Dave.
And he was an NCIS agent too!
Wait now. There is likely to be a lot of Christmas trees in this episode. Hmm.
Dave–
I think its impossible to say what the bulk of fandom wants or doesn’t want. This very site attracts a certain type of fan with a certain POV. Most fans aren’t even on the internet discussing the show. The people with that POV may just be the most vocal fans.
For me, I think the choice to bring back Shaw is a sound one. I agree with all of Zac’s points about it. The stakes are different with Shaw as the nemesis because of his history with both Sarah and Chuck.
I’m really looking forward to this episode in a way I wouldn’t if the returning villain was anyone else.
I thought the poll on Chucktv nailed it, last I saw, 10% love Shaw, 50% feel it is a great twist, and 40% checked off the choice that included WTF and hate, two strong words. The point isn’t that some majority are ok with this, and a minority are in love with it, but the passion with which the 40% reject it. That is what those in the 60% group don’t get, haven’t ever gotten about those in the 40% group, the passion with which that story is disliked.
If Volkov or the guy that hung Chuck by his feet returned, that number would be near 100% excited.
DKD you are of course right I don’t have any statistical basis for my opinion (which is why I added an “I think” to the statement). But it is backed up by purely anecdotal evidence that the majority of more casual viewers I know greeted the news with an eye roll. It was neither excitement nor disgust; just a simple “aren’t we done with him?” That would be six viewers I know, not a scientific sampling at all; but they are the viewers I’m often speaking for.
Jason, Volkoff was a far better villain, but that story is more done than Shaw’s. I’ll be surprised if Santa Suit is not better than Family Volkoff (one of the weaker S4 episodes–looks like 5th lowest S4 in Ernie’s poll).
Yeah Jeff by most counts Santa Suit has been well reviewed by those who’ve seen it. I don’t doubt it could be a very good episode. I just THINK (suspect with no statistical verification; I have a hunch; my gut instinct…) that most casual viewers are not excited by the return of this character.
I remember back between S3 and S4 we got a new guy at work who was/is a casual Chuck viewer. When talking about S4 “coming up”, he made a comment about thinking Shaw would return. The way he said it made me think “oh my gosh, I just met my first ever flesh and blood Shaw fan…”
But then in another discussion weeks later I was saying I thought Shaw would have been better received without the romantic angle added to his character; and this co-worker just bluntly said “no.” He wasn’t interesting and nothing would have changed that.
Obviously Shaw fans are out there, we hear from them here every day. But I still have yet to physically meet one.
Jeff – meaningless analogy, I’ll bet if Volkov was in Santa it would do far better than 3×8 too. This ep is going to do quite well, any idiot knows Fedak is not so stupid to do a woeful ep, plus several have watched it and raved about it, predicting its awesomeness takes no courage. My point addressed something very different, i.e. the popularity of Shaw’s appearance in 5×7, do you understand?
Listen, they’re bringing him back so that Chuck can defeat him in a totally original way – again.
And to lend total credence to Ernie’s POV, I certainly don’t buy that he’s any type of mastermind within the conspiracy, (he was never SHOWN to be a master anything, sure they all “talked” about him a lot) he’s a marionette (think about it) at most.
Yeah Shepperd, I don’t believe Shaw will be any sort of “shot caller!” He’ll mainly be a baddie with a personal grudge against the Bartowskis. He MAY know something about the grand conspiracy, or may point towards whoever does; but I don’t believe Shaw will be personally of any importance to the conspirators (who may even be somewhat annoyed with him as killing the Bartowskis does seem to currently be the plan).
Okay, I guess Auseillo just posted a spoiler indicating I’m completely wrong. Shaw apparently is the big bad behind the grand conspiracy. I’m officially disappointed. While I still expect a good episode, this feels horribly anti-climactic.
How can Shaw possibly be the mastermind?
That doesn’t seem to really make sense. Especially since we know they’ve already cast somebody for the last few episodes who is supposed to be the “Big Bad” of the season. Unless there’s a conspiracy behind the conspiracy. In which case, I will laugh at the ridiculousness.
Nothing is certain yet, Dave. According to Ausiello, Shaw was manipulating Decker, but that doesn’t mean he was in charge. He could have been taking orders from Robert the Bruce. Or it could be a mini-Braveheart arc that is only four or five episodes.
Yeah, I saw that. More telling and no showing. It’s the backloading of story thing rearing it’s head again.
Jeff – I agree with you, I only took the Ausiello comment to mean Shaw has been pulling Decker’s strings, not all of the strings since the pilot. Shaw telling Decker not to kill Sarah or Chuck sure makes sense however, as mr. muaha wants a piece of Sarah all to himself?
Jeff, Jason good points. It does make perfect sense Shaw would want to save the Bartowskis for himself. But he can’t actually be who was behind everything. It makes far more sense if he’s only another link in the chain.
I’ll toss my nickle in here. i said days ago shaw was pulling the strings on the virus. chuck as a show is predictable like others have pointed out. the first half is coming to an end in 7 where i think the conspiracy ends with shaw and whoever else was involved. we get 2 stand alones in 8-9. 8 will be emotional with sarahs past and 9 will be light hearted, then the final big bad from 10-13. final as in the last one you get. i could also be way off the mark! thats why this is so much fun.
No, I think she’ll be running because a) She is a version of Papa B, who ran to protect her family (her mother and, I assume, a half-sibling) or b) she is a version of Chuck and had heeded the advice she gave Chuck on the beach in the pilot: Tell them nothing to keep them safe.
The only real questions here are 1) Will they honor the line from Season 4? (Sarah tells Ellie that she hadn’t spoken to her mother in five years, which, of course, is the start of her adventure with Chuck) and 2) Have they created a grand conspiracy above the one that Shaw created to try to tie together the disparate years of the show’s development?
That last one might be most interesting of all. After all, we’ve had AT LEAST four Chuck shows:
1) Chuck doesn’t want to be a spy, Sarah can’t commit. That’s the original show that ends with Colonel.
2) Chuck wants to be a spy, Sarah commits and is rebuffed. That starts with the end of Ring and ends with Other Guy.
3) Chuck and Sarah try to run away, but realize they are meant to be a spy couple. (This starts with Honeymooners and ends with Cliffhanger, although this version of the show is a sort of quantum mechanics “many worlds” recast of the platform scene in Pink Slip.)
4) The spies-for-hire, which we currently have.
Unlike most of the posters here, I’ve NEVER believed in the hero’s-journey theory of the show because there hasn’t been ONE show. There have been MANY journeys, three of which have now ended. It’ll be interesting to see if Fedak actually tries to explain these various iterations with an overarching theme.
RobertG – welcome to the discussion! Nice t’ see-ya!
That’s an interesting take – four shows, vs “the hero’s journey”. My first reaction is that it’s not really a separate and unique perspective; the character’s growth sort of demands that they treat similar circumstances differently at the end than at the beginning.
I’m forever fascinated by one of the last scenes in LoTR, where Frodo & Co. are more or less accosted by ruffians left over from Saruman’s taking over The Shire. Unlike at at beginning, Pippen & Merry immediate come between them and Frodo, unafraid and even eager to stand up to them. Frodo himself barely considers them a threat. Can’t help but see Morgan and Chuck there.
So in my mind the two views are intertwined. Gotta say, though, that looking at each season that way (as a separate story) is a refreshing take.
So let me get this straight. Shaw is part of the conspiracy that existed before the pilot episode, yet he wasn’t evil until the Ring which was part of said conspiracy showed him that the CIA order his wife’s hit. So he joined the group that he was already a part of and tried to destroy the CIA which is part of the group in the first place. To quote Keyshawn Johnson “Come on man”
well i think it’s more like the conspiracy existed before the pilot. shaw did the bits against the CIA when he found out they ordered the hit on his wife, with shaw joining the conspiracy after he knew sarah killed his wife because c/s then became the bigger evil, then he began pulling deckers strings.
if this is confusing (and it is) wait till you see what happens in vs the baby 5.08. i bet that one shakes a bunch of fruit off the trees!
It could be so, it requires some stretching: Shaw is part of a conspiracy within the CIA to control it and act through it (Decker, Cunnings ect) that way his being sent to team Bartowski is no accident ( and increases the likelihood that part of his mission was to seperate Chuck from Sarah and Casey). In the course of this mission he finds out that the CIA in the person of Sarah killed his wife, he becomes a deranged weapon against the CIA and latches on to the Ring. Later, acting throuigh his conspiracy contacts, after the Ring has returned him to health he gets into the meeting to determine Chuck’s suitability to sereve. He said that he was working under orders to infiltrate the Ring, his General’s orders?
On a different tack of speculation, two things, first what are the chances of the Omen virus somehow working in conjunction with the RIOS operating system. Secondly, last episode Sarah said she had been running all her life, running from what?
Herder…if they kept in context from what they have shown in the past she was running all the time with her dad. he was a conman after all. they probably had to run from those he conned and the law.
Sorry, I’m new to this. My comment above was meant to be a response to Herder’s spec. Sorry about that…
When Fedak to comes out and just reveals that Shaw is the mastermind behind the conspiracy, I get suspicious. I think its a misdirection.
Shaw may have been behind one part of the plan–like a sub-mission within a mission–but I sense we’ll find out he is not the mastermind behind it all.
I agree with most of that, Herder, with a slight variation. From Decker’s farewell to Chuck at the end of Cliffhanger, I inferred that there is a conspiracy going all the way back to Agent X, Hartley/Volkoff, and therefore, Stephen and Mary. From Decker’s list, I assumed that Shaw was always a part of that conspiracy and was sent to manipulate Chuck in some way. Along the way, as you said, it became even more personal (the PM knew what he was doing with the Sarah/Shaw/Eve connection, making him an even better tool. (I’ve always thought, conspiracy or no, that it was part of his job to use Chuck’s connection with Sarah and then break it. That may still be part of the agenda, because what better way to shatter both of them.) The only surprise to me is that Shaw has, apparently, been higher up on the conspiracy ladder. I figured he was more of a pawn, but this is good, too.
If the conspiracy buck stops on Shaw’s desk, or with more recent events, I’ll be disappointed, since I really expect it to go all the way back to Stephen and Mary.
The big, big bad, the PM may have been molding people suitable to carry out his agenda, by creating events in their lives. This could include the hit on Eve Shaw to give Daniel Shaw a control button. Whatever they have tried on Chuck and Sarah, it hasn’t worked for them, and they are getting desperate. Which means more danger for Chuck and Sarah.
I took Sarah’s remark at face value … running because of her dad’s cons. Just the stuff we already knew.
I think the RIOS is long forgotten, but that would be an interesting and unprecedented twist. Unprecedented, because the Chuckverse is littered with jettisoned plot lines. They seem mostly disposable … use once and dispose.
I think all of you might be missing the point, or I don’t understand what you are saying, or both.
Here is what I am almost sure is going on, Shaw is manipulating Decker to take down CI and kill Chuck and Sarah. This is all going to end with 5×7’s end. Shaw’s relationship with Decker is not part of the conspiracy over the past 5 seasons, but was a 7 ep arc (well 3 or 4 maybe) that ends in 5×7.
The big bad’s objective is very different than killing Chuck or Sarah, it is something that has been going on for a long time (since Hartely / orion maybe), Shaw s3 like Chuck, was a pawn in that game as DEcker told us in 4×24. Shaw s5 is not part of the big bad’s story, Shaw’s story is personal to his hatred for Chuck and Sarah, mostly Sarah. We have spent little time speculating what the big bad wants, but I’m guessing the intersect is the prize, a working version, no bugs, much like the Rambaldi device was the prize in Alias. The final battle will be fought with the big bad over the intersect, not out of vengeance or revenge or hatred.
Finally, either while Shaw tortures Sarah, or from b4, Shaw knows a secret about Sarah that Chuck does not know. This might be something spurious, like she is pregnant or had a child, or something related to the overall big bad story, heck or maybe even both. Either way, I think that line will be 5×7’s cliffhanger, that frames 5×8’s ‘baby’ story. The secret may also frame the entire remaining arc, but I don’t think so, I think 5×8 will pay itself off, more a bottle ep than a mythology ep.
Jason i agree. i said the same thing in a post above just less wordy so my point may not have gotten across.
I don’t think that Shaw is the big bad in this story, I’m suprised that he is giving orders to Decker, I would have thought that they both were on the same level. The words that I key on are Cummings to Beckman, “you’re not my general”, some one is higher up the totem pole than both Decker/Cummings or Shaw. Maybe one of the generals at the hearing in Subway. FYI I don’t think that this general is the big bad either, him we have yet to meet.
I don’t necessarily agree with the idea that Sarah was running when with her father, the earlier flashbacks show that she yearned for that life. My guess is that she is running from something else and it is the disclosure (to Chuck) of that something else that Shaw is threatening and that she will want to take care of by herself (without Chuck) in Baby and that is supposed to mirror Chuck’s actions in Curse (and his idea of good secrets in Zoom).
The Omen/RIOS spec was simply a WAG based on the notion that the Omen virus is out there, burrowing into computer programs waiting for something, sort of like the way that RIOS was left.
herder / army – sounds like we are more in agreement than I thought:
The identity of the ultimate big bad, I predict the multi ep actor will be a shill, made to look like the big bad, but the real big bad will be revealed near the end, and will be a known character:
My five best choices, all have flaws, maybe even inconsistencies, but here the list is in order of my favorite picks:
2 – Mama B – I think she makes perfect sense, she didn’t come back to her fmaily because manipulating Volkov as her front was the perfect cover, very Alias like, she has been around the intersect from the start
3 – Graham – Sarah connection, vanished with the intersect explosion, easy to make him work, no risk at all
4 – Beckman – she would be funny, just aren’t any breadcrumbs I can think of, but she is in perfect position to be the big bad, perfect, has had her thumb on Chuck since day 1
5 – Lester – he would be funnier, not even a shred of breadcrumb
but my #1 choice is Orioin – would be Alias like, Orion could have easily manipulated everything, easily, maybe Stephen has a split personality like Winterbottom, Orion is the ‘intersected’ version of Stephen????? Hence when Fedak says Stephen Bartkowski is dead, he meant it, but Orion is not …. a little Darth Vader touch to it at the end too?
Jason, about a month ago i said it here that mama b is the likely choice with orion second. what i would add is maybe they are in it together but not really. mama b knew chucks potential and wanted him for the bad, orion was playing against her the whole time by ruining chucks life to keep him away.
i rule out grahm because the actor who played him is doing a broadway show last that i heard. beckman also because in the last couple of episodes she had all the chances to stop chuck instead she helped him. i do like the choices however!
These are terrific musings and specs. I think we’ll all in the same ball park.
I like your spec on Sarah’s running comment, now that you elaborate, Herder. I also noticed the “general” comment and thought back to Subway. I think it was General Merriweather. But you’re probably right about him not being the big bad.
Jason, I agree with your take on the Shaw/conspiracy bit. You parsed it better than I did, with Shaw as a pawn in the big conspiracy and king of his own mini conspiracy. We basically agree, though. I agree that the Intersect is at the center of the conspiracy. I can’t go with any of your big bads, except for Graham. I just don’t see mama or PapaB or Beckman. Whoever the big bad is wants to manipulate Chuck and the Intersect for evil and personal gain. I think he also manipulated Stephen and Mary and Hartley, I don’t see the Bartowski’s themselves as the PM’s.
Jason cont…part got left off, dunno how. orion is still pulling the strings to keep chuck away by setting him up with the virus and trying to ruin his business. what if orion is indeed dead its just a computer program (AI type thing) orion created that’s issuing orders? a face would be easy enough to computer generate. orion was a computer genius after all.
@ATCDave: Dave, I think most Chuck viewers (hardcore and casual) spoke clearly how they felt about Season 3 and Daniel Shaw, the DVDs sold very well. As well as the previous season at least.
The season 4 (your favorite one) DVDs didn’ sell anywhere as well (like nearly 50% less). There is a thread about it over at Chucktv.net in the news forum.
Hahahaha, so? I disliked almost every single S3 episode and hated Shaw and I still bought the DVDs.
Your point (to be generous) proves nothing.
This constant competition is boring.
mxpw – yea – how do the blog savy say it – +1 maybe
I disagree, I think my point proves a lot. It proves that S3, and everything about it, was popular enough and people (all kinds of people not just those who post in this site) spent their hard-earned $$ on it. I didn’t enjoy S4 overall, so I didn’t buy the DVDs. I’m with DKD, there are other sections of the fandom like me that enjoyed S3. The AVClub liked it. IGN liked it. There is a lot more people out there who don’t post their thoughts on Chuck fansites.
Any way, Can’t wait for the return of Daniel Shaaaaaaw.
I also bought S3 discs to support the show. Even though very few episodes have any replay value for me.
Sam, I doubt the sales drop is because of a lack of Shaw, but I’m not going to laugh at you about it. In general, great villains help make TV seasons more popular and your premise could be valid. Also, some people (not me) love angst.
In Chuck’s case, I think that is more a factor of
1) download purchases from Apple and Amazon are more common
2) viewership of S3 was higher than S4 and S5 is even lower (for various reasons discussed elsewhere). S5 viewers are more likely to purchase S4.
3) People purchased S3 to help with S4’s extra episode pick-up. S4 had no such incentive.
4) S3 was released just after Christmas, so people spent gift cards. (That’s how I bought S3, even though I would have bought it anyway.) S4 was released in October.
5) Unlike the die-hard fans who post on blogs and voted in Ernie’s poll, maybe the regular fan who likes the show enough to buy the DVDs liked S3 more. We don’t know because they aren’t on the boards, but my sister and brother-in-law are like that. They are getting S4 (in a few days) mainly because they wanted to continue their collection. My parents might be in that group as well.
Thanks Jeff, good points. I’d also add that DVD sales in total are down across the board. More viewers are switching to pure on-line sources. I’ve never disputed there are big S3 fans out there, we hear from them all the time. But I don’t believe more casual viewers enjoyed S3 as much. I can not prove that at all, its based purely on my own anecdotal evidence.
”
SWFanGirlsSarah Walker Fangirl
Spoiler alert***Last line of Friday’s ep. “Shaw to ____: “Chuck still doesn’t know about _____”. And it becomes a segue to Ep 8’s focus.
“
The short synopsis for Bo’s ep:
http://www.spoilertv.com/2011/12/chuck-episode-510-chuck-versus-bo-short.html
The ‘one’ last mission makes me wonder if Chuck and Sarah have decided to quit. Maybe Sarah is pregnant as the ‘secret’ that will change their lives forever?
@MyNameIsJeff & Dave: good excuses, but I’ll take it at face value, people just weren’t very excited about buying the S4 dvds as they were about the previous seasons. Let’s remember that the first half of S4 was seen by about 5 to 6 mill people, so they knew about the storyline. The numbers dropped considerably in the second half, same with the demo to a all time low. Numbers also dropped for S3 yet the dvds sold well. It’s also interesting to note that other shows like Smallville (and I strongly dislike that show), which had a very mediocre last season, the dvds are selling REALLY well. Same thing for othere shows/movies. I just hope this last season performs much better in that aspect because I’m enjoying it quite a bit so far.
Sam, you’re probably not completely wrong. 50% drops are usually the result of many things, not just one.
Smallville is an unusual case. I read something a few years ago (when Smallville was moved to Friday despite being the top WB/CW show), that show didn’t need advertising money the way other shows do. The DVD sales were high enough to fund the show. Chuck averaged higher ratings than Smallville, but anything Superman has the strong angle on comic book collectors.. Superman might not be popular on Chuck, but the franchise still has its own benefits.
I certainly agree about Smallville. Very weak last season. Not Chuck level overall in the least. As far as Chuck season 5, however, don’t you think the writing has gone a little downhill compared to all the previous seasons? Do you know if they have different writers or something? It’s still great, but the plots seem a bit lacking to me, if only just a little.
There’s all different opinions on the writing badbad. Many would agree with you that something was lost after S2 or S3, opinions do vary. For myself and many others, I feel the show really tanked in S3 but has been as good as anything I’ve ever seen in S4 and S5.